The Manosphere Report

0:01Joe Rogan podcast, check it out.

0:03The Joe Rogan experience. Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night, all day.

0:12Gentlemen, great to see you.

0:13Yeah, put him on, slap him on.

0:15What's happening? Good to see you gentlemen again.

0:19Taking off. Good to see you, William.

0:21One more time. Yeah, one more time.

0:23Yeah. So what is the latest?

0:26Give me the latest. Where are we at?

0:29Why don't you take it, Brian?

0:30You just kind of. You are the most current on where we are, what's going

0:37on. Man, there has been a lot of stuff happened in the 15 months since

0:41we were here. I mean, like stunning amount of stuff.

0:44So let's not waste any time.

0:45Tell them where we're at.

0:46All right. Well, the last time we came to visit with you, I believe, was

0:50on December the 27th of 2024.

0:54We were just on the front end of having organized 30 committed Texans whose own

1:00families had had experiences related to trauma, addiction, alcoholism, and the wounds of war.

1:05Who, after hearing a plan that was developed for the state of Kentucky to bring

1:10Ibogaine to the American people as an FDA -approved medication and breakthrough treatment for addiction

1:15and trauma, committed themselves to using their time, their talent, and their network to achieve

1:23what had never been done before.

1:25And that was to convince an individual state to undertake drug development to create a

1:31therapeutic medical breakthrough for public health crises within its borders that are representative of the

1:36national reality. After you released the interview with us on January 2nd, 2025, we pursued

1:45a five -and -a -half -month blistering campaign to convince 188 blank -slate Texas legislators

1:55to fund the single largest psychedelic research and medical development project in history, that being

2:03the $50 million Texas Ibogaine Initiative.

2:06We had the assistance of some in -state allies, one of which was Texans for

2:11greater mental health, led by a dear friend and brother of mine, Logan Davidson, who

2:16was my right hand, going to meet with legislators continuously while I set up shop

2:21at a hotel here in Halston and lived here just about part -time, wearing the

2:26shoe leather off, sweating, and making sure that everybody who needed to be introduced, educated,

2:32and motivated to get behind this would do so.

2:34At the end of this five -and -a -half months, we secured the votes of

2:40yes of 181 out of 188 legislators between the Texas House of Representatives and State

2:48Senate. There was one individual who we had to persuade at the 11th hour to

2:54get behind this project. On May the 14th, 2025, just 36 hours before the Texas

3:01budget was finalized, this bill that would create the first unified FDA drug development trial

3:07with Ibogaine in U .S.

3:08history was not funded. I woke up that morning, and I believe very much in

3:15keeping your prayers in the closet, as Jesus taught, and not getting out there parading

3:19about it. But on that morning, I got a call, and it was, hey, we're

3:24getting to the 11th hour.

3:26We don't have money to secure this.

3:28It may not make it.

3:29We've done everything that we can.

3:31And I just, I literally got down on my hands and knees and said, God,

3:35please let this happen. And if it cannot happen, help me understand why.

3:41Three hours later, I got a telephone call asking if I could go and meet

3:46with the Texas House Speaker and Lieutenant Governor Dan Patrick.

3:49I went at 4 .30 in the afternoon on May the 14th and spent an

3:53hour with these two gentlemen going back and forth about what this project was, why

3:57it was so existentially necessary for Texas and the country.

4:01And on Friday morning, May the 16th at 10 a .m., we got a text

4:06message from Lieutenant Governor Patrick confirming that he would approve and fully fund the Texas

4:11Ibogaine initiative. As we walk in here today, literally just 10 minutes before we walked

4:18into your studio, I can confirm that the great state of Texas is going to

4:27fully fund the Texas Ibogaine initiative, originally intended to be a public -private partnership, but

4:33now has decided on its own to commit a full $100 million to launch the

4:41development of Ibogaine all the way through the FDA's drug development process for the benefit

4:46of the American people. To do so on its own, without any drug development partner,

4:52and to do it for the good of humanity.

4:57That's phenomenal. So what did you have to say to Dan Patrick to convince him

5:01of this? And kudos to him for doing this.

5:03Well, I had some very wonderful advocates who preceded my meeting.

5:09Was he skeptical? Oh, he was completely disengaged from the process, highly skeptical, as we

5:15learned through intermediaries. But we had two wonderful brothers on mission who happened to be

5:21twins, Marcus and Morgan Luttrell.

5:24I know Marcus very well.

5:26Marcus and Morgan Luttrell reached out to the lieutenant governor.

5:29They spoke to him very movingly and personally about their own experiences with Ibogaine, what

5:35it had done, not just to save their lives, but what it was doing to

5:39save the lives of warfighters who had come to the end of being able to

5:43live. And as they explained to him what it did for them and what it

5:48has done for their brothers and sisters -at -arms who've returned to war, to broken

5:52government systems that can do nothing to cure what ails them at their core, he

5:59was persuaded to have an open -minded conversation.

6:02And through that conversation on May the 14th, we essentially went through what science suggests.

6:10are the powers of the most sophisticated molecule on the planet to resolve physiological substance

6:15dependence and thereby create psychology within the human being whereby they believe they have ownership

6:21of themselves and their future and that that future will be one defined by choice

6:25rather than compulsion. And the most powerful aspect of the Ibogaine argument, not just for

6:31the lieutenant governor and house speaker, but for most of these legislators who voted yes,

6:36is the experience endorsed by many that Ibogaine confirms without question the reality of our

6:45individual human divinity. And that is the greatest truth conveyed by this fabulous plant.

6:52Well put. And I don't think it's just Ibogaine that confirms that.

6:55I think you could say the same about many other psychedelic drugs that are unjustly

7:01maligned and treated as if they're an escape from reality.

7:05But in the interest of this being a standalone podcast for people who don't know

7:10what Ibogaine is and don't understand the efficacy of it and how unbelievably effective it

7:16is at especially treating addiction, could you please just go over that?

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9:40Yes, sir. So ibogaine is an alkaloid that is derived from the iboga shrub.

9:46The iboga shrub originates in the central Congo basin.

9:52Its native country is modern day Gabon.

9:54It is the mother country of the iboga shrub, which has been used for centuries

9:59in the spiritual and cultural traditions of the Buwiti, a group of spiritualists who include

10:06the pygmies as well as the Bantu tribes that live there in Gabon.

10:12In the early 60s, it was discovered that ibogaine and iboga had a significant interruption

10:19effect on opioid addiction. There was an individual who had been addicted to heroin for

10:25a number of years. They took ibogaine and not only did they not experience any

10:30withdrawal when they stopped taking heroin, they stopped having any desire to use any drug

10:36whatsoever. This touched off 60 years of open label field studies that are mountains high

10:45and decades wide that firmly established that ibogaine has a unique and singular interruption capacity

10:53on physiological substance dependency, whether that's opioids, alcohol, methamphetamine, cocaine, or tobacco.

11:02Recent evidence also suggests that it has a significant interruption effect on compulsive behaviors.

11:08Anything that kind of impacts that brain's dopamine system produces a rush.

11:13Particularly gambling. Yes, sir. Now, in 2018, U .S.

11:18Special Forces special operators started going to Mexico for treatment of symptoms of traumatic brain

11:23injury expressed through treatment resistant depression, anxiety, and suicidality.

11:30Many of these veterans had gone through the VA system.

11:33They had been given an unbelievable amount of synthetic pharmacology that in their end effect,

11:39essentially anesthetizes the soul and slowly euthanizes the body.

11:45And they were at the end.

11:46So, as they were going to Mexico and would get ibogaine treatment, they came back

11:51with these just unbelievably, just powerful recovery results that seemed too good to be true.

12:00So, there were some scientists at Stanford University that were funded by philanthropists who wanted

12:07to understand what was going on.

12:08And so, what we have come to learn through a Stanford research study on traumatic

12:13brain injury for vets is that ibogaine has remarkable neuro -regenerative capacities on the brain

12:20that are unheard of in the annals of Western science.

12:24science. And while information is still very small in amount and preliminary, there are individuals

12:32who have had Ibogaine treatment for not just traumatic brain injury, but for multiple sclerosis,

12:39Lyme disease, Parkinson's disease, post -surgical complications related to the removal of brain tumor who

12:46endorse a restoration of functionality and an ability to live that are otherworldly.

12:52And as we recognize that the opportunities to improve the human condition at scale are

12:58multi -lifetime in appearing, we believe that we have found one of those.

13:04And if we're going to do justice to the human species, it is incumbent upon

13:09us to take what appears to be a promising therapeutic improvement and deliver it with

13:16speed through the U .S.

13:17medical systems. And that's what Governor Perry and I have founded Americans for Ibogaine to

13:22do, just that, achieve the moonshot of our time.

13:25And that is to bring Ibogaine medicine to the American people as quickly as possible.

13:31Well said. And thank you again, Governor Perry, because if it wasn't for your involvement

13:38in this, I think a lot of people would be far more skeptical.

13:41You know, you being a former distinguished governor of the state who is a Republican,

13:47generally speaking, most people think of Republicans being anti -psychedelics and that this whole thing

13:53is just a bunch of people trying to escape reality and poison their mind and,

13:58you know, tune out of society and become losers.

14:01That's the general consensus of people that are just, for lack of a better term,

14:08ignorant of the effects of these substances.

14:11They don't understand it. But if it wasn't for you, your open -mindedness, your willingness

14:18to engage in this and try to understand it and to speak to these veterans,

14:22I don't think people would be taken into seriously.

14:25Yeah. So thank you. Well, and thank you.

14:29As I've watched you over the last 15 months, seemed like ever six weeks or

14:36so, you'd have a guest on here and you'd be talking about Ibogaine in particular

14:41and what is the progress that we're making.

14:44What comes up so often.

14:45Yeah. Well, and it should.

14:47It should. It should. Because this truly – I mean, this is not what I

14:53came into the world for.

14:54This is not what I came to politics for.

14:56This is what – you know, I got led to this through that relationship with

15:00Marcus and, in turn, Morgan Luttrell and seeing those two boys literally, particularly Marcus, on

15:07the doorstep of committing suicide.

15:10When he came to live with us at the governor's mansion in 2007, we had

15:14met the year before just by the grace of God.

15:17And I told him, I said, if you're ever through Austin, come by and see

15:19me, knowing that the chances of that would be pretty slim.

15:24He knocked on that guard door in May of 2007 and said, the governor said,

15:30if I was ever through here, come by and see him.

15:32They called. I let him in for dinner.

15:35And my wife, who's a nurse, she recognized this young man who was really troubled,

15:42addicted to opioids, masking it with alcohol, really sick.

15:47And for the next two and a half years, he lived with us at the

15:51governor's residence. Wow. And that started this long journey, literally, with him and trying to

16:02find ways to heal him.

16:04We sent him to a host of different places, Carrick Brain Center in Dallas.

16:07We sent him to what's called now Axios, Athletes Performance in those days, but a

16:14great rehab facility down in the panhandle of Florida.

16:17And they helped him conquer or helped him manage the opioid addiction.

16:25I will suggest to you until he was treated with Ibogaine, which did clean that

16:32completely away from him some years later.

16:36But the point is, he really struggled.

16:40And he has become like our son.

16:45As a matter of fact, I talked to him this morning.

16:46He said, be sure and tell Joe Howdy for me.

16:49He just thinks the world of you as well.

16:51I talked to his brother the day before.

16:54They understand how powerful this compound is from the standpoint of treating post -traumatic stress,

17:01traumatic brain injury, addictions. I mean, this – and as I became convinced, one of

17:11the things that I will say that I've been – I've been open to change,

17:17just like criminal justice reform.

17:19In the early 2000s, I was kind of like lock their ass up, throw the

17:23key under the jail. You know, you break the law in the state of Texas.

17:25He says, here's how we treat you.

17:28And I had a district judge in Fort Worth, John Crusoe, a Democrat district judge

17:35who I knew and had been friends with.

17:39He said, Governor, we got a program here that allows these individuals who have broken

17:44the law. You know, they've maybe, you know, got caught with an illegal substance or

17:50what have you. And rather than sending them to jail, sending them to the penitentiary

17:56where they become professional criminals, we give them a second chance.

18:02We put them in a rehab program.

18:04We put them in a treatment center.

18:06We put them in a boot camp.

18:07You know, give them these options rather than sending them to prison where they're going

18:13to become professional criminals and the recidivism rate is going to continue on.

18:20You know, I'm kind of like, no, I'm tough on crime.

18:25That's what us Republicans do.

18:27But it really got me thinking.

18:28I mean, I am curious -minded about concepts and ideas.

18:34So that brought me to having conversations and, you know.

18:39Long story short, that single conversation led to Texas leading the nation with criminal justice

18:49reform. Texas Public Policy Foundation that now Secretary of Agriculture Brooke Rollins was operating in

18:58the mid to late 2000s.

19:02They came on board, saw this, supported it.

19:06We passed it through a very Republican, very conservative legislature.

19:12And Texas led the nation in criminal justice reform, saved us billions of dollars.

19:18We stopped building prisons. We stopped sending people to prison where they were becoming professional

19:23criminals. So that template, if you will, was what we took to Donald Trump in

19:312018. And he was just like me initially.

19:37I'm tough on crime. But he was open.

19:42He was curious. Brooke Rollins, interestingly, had come up and was his domestic policy advisor

19:50at that time. And she made the pitch.

19:52And he was open. And that conversation led to him being open to federal criminal

19:59justice reform. And today, there are people who, I mean, you know, you may have

20:07different ideas about President Trump and what have you.

20:10I know that's the case.

20:11But on this issue of criminal justice reform, this man was curious.

20:15He was open -minded. And he's made a real difference in people's lives following the

20:21Texas model. The reason I share that with you as a example, that's where I

20:28was on these compounds, these drugs, these psychedelics.

20:33I mean, I grew up in the 60s.

20:37Timothy O 'Leary, using LSD, marijuana, any of that kind of stuff.

20:42I mean, it was anathema to me.

20:44Absolutely and totally. I don't have anything to do with it.

20:48This is crazy stuff. You get in trouble.

20:50They'll throw you in jail.

20:52You'll jump off of buildings.

20:53I mean, every story that you can imagine that people.

20:58And then think about from the 60s forward, how, you know, I went into the

21:05Air Force. They, you know, we took drug tests at least monthly.

21:13So the idea of being involved with a drug was just totally and absolutely not

21:18on my radar screen. These are bad things.

21:21And we're reinforced in the 80s with Mrs.

21:25Reagan. Just say no to drugs.

21:27Here's your brain on drugs.

21:29I mean, we have been browbeat as a society for 60 years.

21:34And when you add to it, what Nixon did, President Nixon did in the late

21:3960s, early 70s, with his war on drugs, he hated hippies, he hated blacks.

21:47And one of the ways you could go after them was to go make these

21:50compounds Schedule I, which he did.

21:54Schedule I says there is no medical purpose for it.

21:57And it is highly addictive.

22:00Ibogaine fits neither of those.

22:03Ibogaine is not an addictive compound.

22:05By any sense of the imagination.

22:07It's also absolutely not a recreational compound.

22:10No, at all. It's not something that someone's going to do at a party.

22:12And we are proving without a doubt to the Texas legislature, to legislatures across this

22:19country, in Mississippi, in Tennessee, in Arizona, West Virginia, that it does have a medical

22:25purpose, that there are some extraordinary things that can happen for their citizens who have

22:31PTSD, who have sexual trauma, who have addictions.

22:35I mean, saving lives by the thousands, hundreds of thousands, I will suggest to you,

22:43when this is approved across the country.

22:45And we see it as a relatively easily studied and accessed by medical care compound.

22:54So that story of seeing these two young men who have given everything, literally, up

23:08to willing to give their lives, and a lot of their friends did, for our

23:12freedoms and our liberties in this country.

23:16And for us to say to them, oh, sorry, you can't have access to this

23:20because, you know, they're, you know, President Nixon said this was bad stuff back 60

23:26years ago. And it was taken off the shelf as a schedule one drug, put

23:31over here. And for 60 years, Americans have suffered through so many different eras, the

23:42late 90s, when the Sackler family, and Purdue Pharma comes along.

23:47And we literally, I think one of the most demonic things I've seen in my

23:52public life is this family, who used oxycodone and sold it to America as this

24:02be all to end all.

24:04And then our federal government in the mid 2000s, we didn't know how to deal

24:09with these young men who would be put in these horrible conditions and positions of

24:16being at war, time after time after time, rotation after rotation, tempos that we'd never

24:24seen before. In the history of mankind, I'll suggest to you, I mean, Joe, we

24:28were at war for 20 years, 20 years during that period of time.

24:32There's, you know, special operators that were deployed eight, nine, 10 times.

24:38And then they come home, and the governor gives them a sack of opioids, and

24:43that makes them feel crappy, and they mask it with alcohol.

24:47And we sit around and go, why did, why did Bobby kill?

24:54Well, because the government failed in its great responsibility to take care of these young

25:00men and women, in my opinion.

25:02So we owe it to them.

25:05As a matter of fact, a dear friend of mine who just passed away within

25:09the last two days, he had worked with me for, gosh, 30 years.

25:17And when he first saw that I was getting involved with this psychedelic drug, this

25:28Ibogaine compound, and we were having a conversation, he said, you need to be really

25:35careful with that. You know, you've got a great reputation.

25:38You spent 40 years building that reputation up.

25:40He said, you don't want to throw it away on some cockamamie idea here.

25:45And I told him, I said, well, I don't think I'm doing that.

25:49I've studied this pretty intently.

25:52I've talked to a host of different people.

25:57And I said, so I'm comfortable about the science here that I'm seeing and what

26:03have you. And I say, I think it's worth going forward with.

26:08But I said, Ray, their lives are not worth more than my reputation.

26:16And that's what kind of continues to drive me.

26:19There are people that still kind of say, why are you doing this?

26:22Because I believe in it.

26:23I mean, I believe it to the point, Joe, that I'm willing to risk my

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27:52I don't think you're risking your reputation at all.

27:54I think that's foolish thinking.

27:57I think it's people that don't understand the times.

28:01This is a different world.

28:02We're living in a world of information now, and you can't go by these false

28:07narratives that were adopted in the 1970s.

28:10And we're winning. I mean, I'm telling you what Americans for Ibogaine has done.

28:15And, you know, we started out, I tell people, I said, you talk about a

28:18small group of people. I think there were six of us.

28:20He's the CEO. I'm the chairman.

28:22We got Dr. Rulon, who's the secretary.

28:26Ann Claire Stapleton, the communications person.

28:29And then Marcus and Melanie Luttrell, Marcus's wife, are the other two members of our

28:35little board. And we were this small little group kind of going along and doing

28:40what we were doing. We were successful in the Texas legislature and what have you.

28:44But it's exploded now. We have ambassadors, Americans for Ibogaine ambassadors all over the United

28:54States now. People have seen what we've been able to do in Texas.

29:01Mississippi followed suit. They sent their governor a piece of legislation.

29:05I want you to talk about that.

29:06We're going to do the roll call here.

29:08Yeah. And just share with Joe and his audience just the great progress that's being

29:14made. And quite frankly, I think about Michael Dell when he was selling computers out

29:21of the trunk of his car back in the late 80s and then his college

29:26dormitory. AFI kind of found itself like that just a few months ago.

29:33And I'm not trying to say that, you know, we're Dell Computer today, but we

29:38are growing at such a leaps and bounds and, you know, and having the resources

29:43that we need to be able to put our people in various places.

29:46I mean, he's the – travels all – you were in Cabo.

29:50I want you to tell him about the group that you met with in Cabo.

29:53And, I mean, just 200 of these extraordinary people down there.

29:56He travels all over the country.

29:57And, you know, and we have to have the resources to be able to do

30:02that. And, you know, so I hope you're – the folks that are listening are,

30:07you know, go to Americans for Ibogaine.

30:09You know how to tell them how to do that and help this organization because

30:13this is what I'm going to do the rest of my life.

30:17I'm 76 years old, and this is what I – I hope the Lord gives

30:21me a lot of years to make a difference because I know for a fact

30:26that what we're doing today, what you're helping us with is making a difference.

30:31And if we can get these clinical trials to the conclusion – and, you know,

30:36thank you to the lieutenant governor and to the speaker for what they committed to

30:39today. I mean, to know that we're going to be able to go forward now

30:43with these clinical trials, to show the world exactly what we know, but so that

30:50the naysayers out there, the skeptic, can look at that and go, you know what?

30:55You can get 85 percent of the people who are hooked on opioids clean in

31:0272 hours. Isn't that amazing?

31:05I mean, that's such a stunning thing to me.

31:07That's why – that's fantastic.

31:07Okay. Dr. Gull Dolan, we were at South by Southwest a week and a half

31:12ago. She was sitting on the stage.

31:14She's an MD, PhD, was at Johns Hopkins.

31:16She's over at Cal Berkeley now.

31:20And she gave a little primer, if you will, on the different psychedelics.

31:30There's a critical period that the mind opens up and you're able to go in

31:34and, if you will, the medicine treats the mind, I think, for my Aggie, you

31:40know, non -pharmaceutical, non -scientific mind here.

31:44But to go in and repair, reset the brain, the technical word is neuroplasticity.

31:54But ketamine has a critical period.

32:00I think she said 48 to 72 hours.

32:06Psilocybin has a critical period from 14 to 28 days.

32:12I think I'm pretty close on these.

32:16But Ibogaine, the critical period, the time when that neuroplasticity is active and the brain

32:23can be trained, healed, reset, is from 90 to 120 days.

32:33And then with the addiction, opioids, which I happen to think is one of the

32:37most addictive substances that's out there.

32:39I mean, this is some horrible stuff.

32:41You know, this very current event with Tiger Woods and Tiger's accident.

32:48And, you know, he had Oxycontin in his, you know, I'm not judging here, but

32:53I'm just kind of saying that may—when I ran for president in 2011, I'd had

32:59major back surgery in July.

33:02I announced that I was running for president in August.

33:05I had six weeks to try to get over that major back surgery.

33:08And I had a terrible condition called a neurological hyperfusion in my right leg.

33:15I've never had a pain like that.

33:16I felt like a blowtorch going down my right leg.

33:19And they gave me Oxycontin.

33:22And I was taking that to cover up the pain.

33:25I was taking Ambien to go to sleep at night.

33:27And I was taking some stuff called ProVigil to get back up in the morning

33:31and be focused. I laugh about it now.

33:36I'm surprised I did as well as I did in that presidential effort in 2011.

33:40Hell, forgetting that one thing, that third thing in that debate.

33:45I was going to go, hell, I'm surprised I could remember any of them, knowing

33:48what I know now about Oxycontin and the incredibly nasty, addictive nature that it has.

33:57I mean, this stuff is just poison.

33:59And Ibogaine, in 48 to 72 hours, after one dose, one oral application of this

34:15compound, and that addiction is gone.

34:19Not only is that addiction gone, Joe, but Stanford has done functional MRIs on an

34:29addicted opioid brain and then treatment with Ibogaine.

34:38And they have shown that brain from the addicted look that those experts, those postdocs

34:47that look at this, to a normal brain, a normal brain scan in 72 hours.

34:56If you were to go through the normal process of healing yourself of opioid addiction

35:06through an abstinence program, it would take you 18 months.

35:10And there are very few, I'm going to say single digit people that are successful

35:14in being able to do that.

35:15But think about that. We got a compound here that has the ability to heal

35:22people of opioid addiction in 48 to 72 hours.

35:31And we're not doing everything that we can in our power to make that available.

35:36I mean, what the hell's wrong with us?

35:37How bad you got to hate people to not make that available?

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38:27And with two doses, it's even more spectacular.

38:3198%. That is amazing. 98%.

38:36That is truly amazing. There's nothing even remotely like it with standard practice addiction therapy.

38:43Nothing. Nothing. You know, he mentioned the Americans for Ibogaine.

38:48We have ambassadors. And Joe, what you really helped us do on January 2nd of

38:5325 was create a movement.

38:57Our organization is the custodian of that movement.

39:00We are a public policy and advocacy organization.

39:04And Governor Perry mentions keeping me on the road.

39:06Wherever there are state leaders, citizens of conviction and influence, whether that is California, whether

39:14it's Massachusetts, or whether it's Alabama, we exist to plant the seed of a scientific

39:20understanding of a public policy framework and of a spiritual understanding of the significance of

39:26what we have in our hands here.

39:28An opportunity to improve the human condition at scale.

39:32And while we have talked tightly about Ibogaine's impact on substance dependency and upon the

39:37wounds of war, our ambassadors reflect essentially the universal human condition and the way in

39:45which individuals who have tried every way to overcome various forms of trauma and debility

39:52find as the last step a redemptive restoration through Ibogaine treatment.

40:00It is not for everybody.

40:02It should not be a first resort.

40:04It is an exceptionally powerful medication that comes with a series of side effects that

40:11are highly unpleasant, as you previously mentioned.

40:14One of the selling points, ironically, in the Texas legislature was to say, you know,

40:19if your idea of a good time is being in a state of semi -paralysis

40:23for 12 to 16 hours and throwing up continuously through the process, you're going to

40:29have a real good time.

40:30And if there is the equivalent of being brought to the judgment throne of God

40:35on this side of life, it is an Ibogaine experience.

40:38That seemed to motivate a lot of support, especially for those who subscribe to puritanical

40:43notions of punishment for wrongdoing.

40:45That's not what I'm here to advocate, but certainly it is not fun.

40:50But what we know is that, for instance, we have two fashion model twins whose

40:58father sexually abused them for a decade.

41:02And the results of that horrific experience that they shared produced all kinds of psychological

41:11maladies that included an eating disorder for one, persistent neuroses in the other.

41:17They tried every form of talk therapy.

41:19They tried every psychotherapy modality known to try to overcome that.

41:23And it was Ibogaine that restored their lives and their capacity to enjoy the life

41:30that God has given them.

41:31We have first responders who are emerging in numbers.

41:35One who is a firefighter from Oklahoma who was demoted because of decades of alcoholism.

41:41His life has been restored by Ibogaine and he's back working full -time.

41:45We have a gentleman who was a Charlottesville police officer who was hit in the

41:51face with a brick during the riots that occurred in Charlottesville.

41:55His life was restored by a single Ibogaine treatment and he has attained a level

41:59of functionality that he didn't think was possible, nor his doctors.

42:02We have a gentleman who was a pilot who unfortunately did a bomb and run

42:09on a on a village and killed a number of innocent people.

42:12He learned about this and this sent him into a spiral as many war fighters

42:16who are exposed to moral injury do.

42:20Ibogaine has restored this gentleman's life.

42:23We have a gentleman by the name of Robert Gallery, a former NFL player who

42:27exhibited all the signs of CTE in his post -retirement years.

42:33He was ready to kill himself so that he wouldn't harm his own family.

42:38It was Ibogaine that restored his life.

42:40There have been other NFL players who are as yet unnamed, some incidentally that have

42:45been in the paper who have gone for Ibogaine treatment to address similar symptoms.

42:49Players in the NHL, players in other contact sports that include soccer and rugby and

42:56the United Kingdom where there is an emerging cohort of professional athletes who have reached

43:00out to us to say we want the United Kingdom for Ibogaine.

43:05I would love to get you guys connected with the UFC.

43:07We would love to be connected to the UFC.

43:10Because that is obviously an issue with professional fighters.

43:14So Hughes, Matt Hughes and Matt had, I met Matt through Marcus, gosh in like

43:222008 or so and we went out for a fight.

43:26And then subsequently, Matt had a, I think a car accident of which he really

43:33had. He's hit by a train.

43:34Yeah, just an incredible. traumatic brain injury.

43:40And I just want to have that conversation with him.

43:44And I'm sure you have great relationships with those.

43:48We know for a fact that cumulative impacts on the brain are what lead to

43:58CTE. I mean, I don't think that's even a question of, here's how it happens.

44:04These multiple concussions have cumulative effect on the brain.

44:09And at some point in time, that CTE has a long -time effect.

44:18And this medicine has the ability to remove that trauma, to reset that brain, to

44:30heal that brain. I don't know how it works, Joe.

44:33But that's the reason these clinical trials are going to be so important as we're

44:37going forward. And I can't tell you, I'm ecstatic that the lieutenant governor and the

44:44speaker today announced their full Texas support behind these clinical trials.

44:52We're fixing to become the epicenter for a movement that literally can change the world.

44:58And I know that sounds kind a little bit over the top.

45:02But if we have within our grasp here, a compound that can heal our loved

45:10ones who have an addiction, be it a substance addiction or be it a non

45:16-substance addiction, if we have the ability to heal people who have been traumatically impacted

45:22by concussions, if we have the ability to address PTSD in all the different forms

45:29that it comes. I mean, the hope that that can give to the society that

45:35we live in. And I'm not talking about just the United States.

45:39You think about what's going on in Israel, in Ukraine, in the Middle East today,

45:45and the trauma that people are facing.

45:48I mean, this truly can be an extraordinary gift to the world.

45:52And, you know, listen, I think it's really interesting.

45:57You ask a leading question about how did I come to this position of being

46:07able to be supportive as I am?

46:11And when I think about my growing up, and I grew up in a very

46:16conservative Christian family. And I think one of the challenges we still have in our

46:25society is that the conservative Christian faith is like, stay away from that stuff.

46:35I mean, that's bad. Do not, under any circumstances, don't be going there.

46:42It's demonic. And there's a book that's about to be published, I think, is it

46:49about, I think the first week in April.

46:51So we're approaching it. There's an author by the name of Wendy Reese, R -E

46:57-E -S, and Wendy with an I, W -E -N -D -I -R -E -E

47:01-S. And she, not unlike the two twins, was sexually assaulted by her own father.

47:11He was a pastor of a church.

47:13Joe, I'm telling you, brother, I can't dream up in my worst nightmare, a more

47:21evil thing than a father that would sexually assault their - A preacher father.

47:26Their daughter. And she dealt with it, with Ibogaine, and has come to the conclusion

47:35that her great gift to give to the world out there is to write this

47:39book called A Christian's Guide to Psychedelics.

47:43Now, if you think that won't catch some people's attention when they're going through the

47:47bookstore and they go, A Christian's Guide to Psychedelics, holy mackerel.

47:52But this is a book about her experience.

47:57But it's also a book that I would suggest that every believing Christian, go pick

48:03it up and read it.

48:04Because it talks about chapter and verse and gives you scripture about where God talks

48:10about these compounds, about these things that he's given the world.

48:14He means them for good.

48:15All of them for good.

48:17Are you aware of the scholars in Israel that are proposing that Moses seeing the

48:24burning bush was the acacia tree?

48:27Yeah. There's an acacia tree.

48:30The acacia tree, which is very common in the Middle East, is rich in dimethyltryptamine.

48:35And they believe that what they're trying to relay in this story was that Moses

48:42encountered God through the burning of this bush.

48:47So the burning of this bush releasing the psychedelic compound dimethyltryptamine allowed Moses to bring

48:54back the Ten Commandments. You know, thank you for mentioning that.

49:00I have been following scholarship around the use and the recognition that there's a lot

49:06of psychedelic allegory in Holy Scripture.

49:09That, I think, is the favorite where that burning bush reveals the great I am.

49:16And when Moses says, you know, who are you?

49:18I am who I am.

49:20And the beauty about Ibogaine and the other plant medicines are their capacity to reveal

49:25the I am that is within each of us.

49:29And that I am is our eternal creator who absolutely has engineered and placed these

49:34plants on this earth so that we can be affirmed in what our true identity

49:39and ultimate destiny is. And praise God for it.

49:43And then there's also the sacred mushroom in the cross, the John Marco Allegro book,

49:47where he was one of the ordained ministers.

49:51And that is why, um, of the great selenium in the cross between the two

49:51of us. And, um, of the that was his task was to decode the Dead

49:55Sea Scrolls and he wrote this book that details what he believes is the use

50:02of psychedelic drugs in ancient Christianity.

50:07Hard for me to argue with.

50:09I mean I I just think our modern perception of it which is very tainted

50:14by what happened during the Nixon administration where they were trying to squash the hippie

50:19movement the anti -war movement and the civil rights movement and that's why they demonized

50:23these drugs and these compounds and that's why they put them in this category of

50:28having no medicinal use which is clearly not accurate.

50:32It doesn't mean that they should just be given to everyone and everyone should do

50:36them with no restrictions and no regulations.

50:38It just means we should understand that they have a long history of human use

50:45and have spectacular results and all sorts of things that our society is suffering from

50:51greatly and to just pretend that that's not the case based on what happened in

50:57the 1970s is just insane.

51:00It doesn't make any sense.

51:01I would suggest that one of the greatest lessons learned by Americans who are age

51:0750 and younger those of us who I call the bicentennial children is that the

51:13most morally depraved criminal in America today is power and the power of the human

51:19hand when it is wielded in its most abusive context will always seek to deny

51:25any access to individual human divinity and the liberty and autonomy that is conferred upon

51:31each of us as children of God.

51:33And insofar as we find ourselves at the precipice of what I believe is the

51:38emergence of a broad -based spiritual movement where all of us modernists within the empiricism

51:45of modern American society are able to see through the fog of all of our

51:49wealth and gadgetry and recognize we are in the midst of profound spiritual famine in

51:56the United States. You, I know, and forgive me for referencing age.

52:02Remember back in the mid -80s where we saw all these horrific images of starvation

52:10and dissension and fly -covered death from mass famine in Ethiopia and Sudan where millions

52:21of people starved to death because the malevolence of power forbade the delivery of any

52:29relief sent by the outside world.

52:32When we look at what's right in front of us in the United States today,

52:37there is no denying that we are in the midst of a terrible spiritual famine

52:45and the malevolence of American power is feasting on our starvation.

52:52This is an emancipation movement for the mind, body, and soul of every human being

53:00in this country and across the globe who is lethally estranged from their own spirituality.

53:07The Abagaine mission is a mission to foment dramatic medical breakthroughs across a host of

53:15conditions that have no effective therapeutic answers.

53:18But above and beyond that, it is about the affirmation of the spiritual essence of

53:25life that can unify us as a species in a way that is necessary if

53:30we're going to navigate these changes over the next 20 years.

53:33Governor Perry mentioned this wonderful invitation that I received to go to what was called

53:39the Earth One Summit. Now, Joe, I come out of hillbilly and I introduced him

53:52from time to time. I said, look, this guy, he looks like and he sounds

53:58like a hillbilly from eastern Kentucky in the Appalachian Mountains.

54:04And I said, he is.

54:06But I said, he's one of the most brilliant people I've ever met in my

54:10life and one of the most extraordinary orators I've ever had in my life.

54:14So anyway, I wanted to, I love you, brother, but you are a hillbilly.

54:19I'm much more comfortable with that than all that other stuff you said.

54:24But, you know, when you come out of scratch, nothing sometimes there are certain sophistications

54:28that you lack. And I'm no exception to that.

54:31So there was this Earth One Summit.

54:33It was 200 thought leaders from across the world who came to basically discuss the

54:38future. And I was very honored to have received an invitation to come and attend

54:45the gathering to speak about what Governor Perry and I are working on through Americans

54:49for Ibogaine. And they presented me with the honor of being the closing keynote speaker

54:54for the gathering. And as I listened over the course of four days, I heard

55:01individuals who included Kimball and Christiana Musk.

55:06And I've read interviews by Elon Musk speaking about the advent of AI and the

55:12capacity of AI to solve the central dilemma that we as humans have had since

55:18we emerged from the caves.

55:19And that's the dilemma of scarcity.

55:21So as I was there listening to folks speak about being on the edge of

55:28a time when we can automate the means of production and essentially create an unlimited

55:37amount of abundance for every person on this planet, I couldn't help but think about

55:44where we are right now as compared to where these individuals see us being in

55:5020 years. You cannot create and deploy this kind of godlike technology, which has the

56:01capacity to produce unlimited abundance, potentially ushering.

56:05in the age of Aquarius and drop it in to these Frankenstein monstrosity government systems

56:14that we currently have that are enthroned upon the helplessness of powerless people that perpetuate

56:22problems that they are supposed to solve and that monetize sustained human misery.

56:28So long as government makes its buck over keeping its foot on the necks of

56:34the American people we are looking at a future that much more resembles Mad Max

56:39than we are Star Trek.

56:41And if we are going to create the degree of social cohesion that is necessary

56:45to hold these systems accountable and to create a system that can truly usher in

56:52that age of unlimited abundance to improve the human condition for all it begins with

56:58a spiritual reawakening that I became first and foremost and the rest of the psychedelics

57:03concede and foment within American society.

57:06To that end, and then I'll be quiet for the next little bit.

57:09No, you're good, man. We love listening to you.

57:12There is a six -part docuseries that will come out next year called Psychedelics And.

57:18And it is a series of interviews with a cross -section of leaders across the

57:25United States where they speak about their own quest for meaning and how psychedelics has

57:33helped them understand that we are more than just these material beings that get up

57:38and go to work every day and are a productive economic unit, go home and

57:41repeat. That there is a much higher sense of purpose that we are here to

57:45serve and that the plants themselves have the capacity to enlighten us at scale in

57:51a way that's absolutely necessary if we're going to make that age of abundance happen

57:56as those visionaries articulate and dream for.

58:00What I think is fascinating about the age that we're living in is that change

58:06comes very slowly, but it comes much faster when you have the kind of access

58:10to information that people have today.

58:12And I don't think this conversation was possible 20 years ago.

58:15No, no way. And that's kind of amazing.

58:18No way. It's kind of amazing.

58:19And I don't think that there was a format for this conversation 20 years ago.

58:23This format has occurred because of the age of information, because of the Internet, and

58:29because there's no gatekeepers anymore, and because people have the choice to decide what they

58:35want to consume, what they want to listen to.

58:39And to be able to be a part of that, to me, is an incredible

58:43privilege. And to be able to have you guys on and to have this conversation

58:48and to recognize that the reason why this is possible is because, for lack of

58:54a better term, the world's waking up.

58:57Yes, sir. It's just taking more time than we would like.

59:00Yeah. But the world is waking up.

59:02And change happens. It just happens.

59:06People have to change their opinions, and that's very difficult because a lot of people

59:13identify with their opinions. Their opinions become a part of their ideology, and it's just

59:20very difficult to get people to change their ideology.

59:23They identify with this. It is them.

59:26And I've always tried to tell people the way I try to approach things.

59:31You are not your ideas.

59:33You are not your opinions.

59:35These are just thoughts. And if you identify with them, you are trapped in them,

59:40and you will be held hostage by them.

59:43You will try to defend them.

59:44Even if they don't make sense, you will try to ignore evidence that points you

59:49in a direction that's contrary to what your current belief system is.

59:52Don't be your opinions. Don't be your ideas.

59:55Just sit in them. Be consistent.

59:59Be honest. Have ethics and morals that you adhere to.

1:00:03But the ideas are just ideas.

1:00:05And if you're wrong, you should be proud to say you're wrong.

1:00:08It's a sign of growth.

1:00:11It's a sign of intelligence.

1:00:12And it's a sign of you being an honest human being who cares about the

1:00:17truth, not about being right.

1:00:20Because there's too many people in this world that they don't really have conversations.

1:00:24They have ideological sparring matches where they're just involved in these little intellectual tugs of

1:00:32war where they're just trying to be right.

1:00:36And this is not the time for that.

1:00:39So my going from hard no on criminal justice reform to literally a leader on

1:00:51criminal justice reform in the mid -2000s, my going from hard no on any psychedelic

1:01:00drugs that could be used in any way to now being what I've humorously referred

1:01:08to as the Johnny Appleseed of Ibogaine is to your point.

1:01:12But, you know, be open.

1:01:17Be willing to say you were wrong.

1:01:20I know my wife would like to hear me do that more often.

1:01:24But, hey, if you don't mind, I want to take a minute and talk about

1:01:30how far this movement has come.

1:01:34And Brian talked about Americans for Ibogaine and our ambassadors all across the country and

1:01:40the growth that we've seen in this.

1:01:42And I want to give you one example of to your point that five years

1:01:48ago, if you had had an institution that had its own reputation dealing with brain

1:01:54health and brain science and those kind of things, they would have just kind of

1:01:59moved you off to the side and said, you know, no thanks.

1:02:02But the Center for Brain Health in Dallas, this is an extraordinary institution that's connected

1:02:11to the University of Texas Dallas.

1:02:12Matter of fact, it's just next door to UT Southwestern, which is one of the

1:02:16great medical facilities in the world, UT Southwestern.

1:02:20And Dr. Sandy Chapman heads up the Center for Brain Health.

1:02:27And they've done some great work.

1:02:30We went up and presented to her, I don't know, probably 60 to 90 days

1:02:35ago. And there was another organization called Forward Intent.

1:02:44Forward Intent, just a beautiful young man and his wife, Alex Duran, and his wife,

1:02:53who have funded an effort.

1:02:57And what they're doing with their resources, they're sending, I think, 250 individuals down to

1:03:05Mexico to both, I think, a facility called Transcend and to Ambio.

1:03:12And Ambio is that facility that I've been to, Brian's been to, Marcus and Morgan

1:03:20Luttrell have been to, I think, you know, probably 2 ,000 more fighters have been

1:03:24down to Ambio now. Vets underwrites them.

1:03:29And just as an aside, this has blown up so big.

1:03:34And I'm talking about the Ibogaine effort, the education of Ibogaine.

1:03:38People, you know, there's some hope out there.

1:03:42And people are rushing to find where they can go to, you know, to treat

1:03:46the addiction that their loved one hands or deal with their PTSD and what have

1:03:50you. And Ambio is just covered up.

1:03:54And I'm sure, you know, the other facilities are as well down there.

1:03:59The organization Vets, which is really where I came into this, Amber and Marcus Capone,

1:04:07they don't have any openings anymore.

1:04:11I mean, they are completely covered up.

1:04:14But, I mean, that's a good challenge.

1:04:16I'm glad we have that challenge.

1:04:17But my point is, you've got an institution in Dallas, Texas, that just like the

1:04:25state is getting the signal, it's okay to be out there talking about this.

1:04:30It's okay to be a leader.

1:04:33It's okay to get out there and lead the charge.

1:04:36And I want to read to you what Dr.

1:04:39Chapman, because I asked her, I said, do you mind if I talk about what

1:04:43you all are doing? And she said, absolutely.

1:04:46And she said, Governor, great to talk with you yesterday.

1:04:48Here are some comments to guide you in how to discuss our existing collaboration.

1:04:54I'm excited to announce that we have begun a partnership with the Center for Brain

1:04:59Health, the University of Texas at Dallas, Americans for Ibogaine, and forward intent to create

1:05:06the largest research study of Ibogaine to date, focused on understanding its impact on the

1:05:14brain among the veteran community.

1:05:16Dr. Francesca Philby, an expert in cognitive and translational neuroscience, especially the use of neuroimaging

1:05:25to study brain behavior relationships, will lead the research.

1:05:29Our mission together is to move beyond the question of, does Ibogaine help?

1:05:34And instead, answer the more practical questions veterans and clinicians need.

1:05:39Number one, who benefits and why?

1:05:42How long do the benefits last?

1:05:45Which aspects of daily life functioning, i .e., cognition, sleep, substance use, and overall well

1:05:52-being, improve or worsen following treatment?

1:05:56And how are these changes associated with brain alterations?

1:06:00The three -year study will follow those treated with Ibogaine over the course of 18

1:06:06months, which will allow us to create the first understanding of the sustained impacts of

1:06:12Ibogaine on the brain across various treatment regimes.

1:06:16We'll be diving more into this topic on November the 19th at the Center for

1:06:21Brain Health's Brain Health Presents speaker series to share more.

1:06:27By bringing world -class scientific rigor to this space, we aren't just studying a substance.

1:06:33We're creating a foundation of knowledge that will expand safe, informed access for those who

1:06:41need it most. That is what Americans for Ibogaine is really all about.

1:06:48Making that type of penetration, having that type of success, seeing what Brian and the

1:06:57other folks have created here in the state of Texas.

1:07:01I'm going to tell you something, brother.

1:07:02There is nothing that I've been involved with in my life that gives me more

1:07:13pleasure than to see what we're doing and knowing that there's a father out there,

1:07:22a mother out there, whose child's going to be saved.

1:07:34You mentioned dogma. People are, in particular in American society, there is a quest for

1:07:42identity. There is a quest for belonging.

1:07:45And so much of what we see on social media and in broadcast media that

1:07:50is rage and anger and disaffection is tremendous loneliness and a tremendous lack of belonging

1:07:58to something and a tremendous amount of trauma related to never having had anything that

1:08:05resembles unconditional affection within the context of a safe and stable familial relationship.

1:08:11That's at scale within the United States.

1:08:15And the degree to which dogma can thwart evolution is 100 % right on.

1:08:20And I just use my own self as an example.

1:08:25I was a child of Reagan's America.

1:08:28I can remember I was about five years old when he and President Carter had

1:08:32their first presidential debate in 1980.

1:08:34I would also have the same term Beijin you can have to make sure I

1:08:34should remember that the other眹ly點 President Reagan was like the mother goose to the gosling.

1:08:39He just imprinted on me.

1:08:41And whereas other young boys had pictures of Joe Montana and Michael Jordan and Michael

1:08:48Jackson all over their rooms, mine was wallpapered with Ronald Reagan.

1:08:51I was the president of the Teenage Republicans in high school.

1:08:55I wrote him fan letters all the time.

1:08:58He actually replied to one, and I put it in a frame in my room.

1:09:02It was written on my birthday.

1:09:04I was president of the College Republicans at George Mason University.

1:09:08And I mean, I aim to be the king of conservative Republican conformity.

1:09:13That was my whole mission in life.

1:09:16And I used to joke that when people said, well, how did you get to

1:09:20this? And what do you think about the fact that you're talking about it and

1:09:23you're so zealous in your advocacy?

1:09:25I would kind of make a half statement and say, well, if 25 -year -old

1:09:29me could come and see 50 -year -old me, he would look and say, what

1:09:33in the world happened to you?

1:09:35And I would kind of yuck and yuck and laugh about it.

1:09:38Well, here's the answer. If 25 -year -old me could come back and look at

1:09:4350 -year -old me and say, what happened to you?

1:09:4750 -year -old me would look right back and say, you happened to me.

1:09:52You happened to me. Your youthful sense of certainty, your belief that you had it

1:09:59all figured out, your belief that you had no further greater evolution to achieve, sir,

1:10:04you and your insolence of youth, you happened to me.

1:10:10One of the things that I have so enjoyed learning about Governor Perry as he

1:10:15and I have built relationship, the first time I really started following him was when

1:10:20he ran for president in 2012.

1:10:22And I believe that had he not had that back surgery, we would not have

1:10:26had a second Obama term.

1:10:27He would have won that race.

1:10:28And I think he would have won it handily.

1:10:31It's been remarkable to listen to this gentleman who has been so firmly identified with

1:10:36the conservative wing of the Republican Party be so willing to be curious and to

1:10:42have that human value of curiosity and a willingness to hear and a willingness to

1:10:47know and a willingness to entertain that perhaps everything that he had been taught about

1:10:52this particular subject was not correct.

1:10:55Curiosity is a prime human value.

1:10:58And if you allow dogma to shut off your curiosity, you have hobbled yourself.

1:11:04And I think it was Muhammad Ali who said, if a 50 -year -old man

1:11:10thinks the exact same way as a 20 -year -old man, as he did when

1:11:14he was 20, he's wasted 30 years of his life.

1:11:16And that is dead on right.

1:11:18Dead on right. Yeah, I could attest to that.

1:11:22Curiosity is my number one attribute.

1:11:24That's the thing that's led me in life and everything I've ever done is just

1:11:29being open -minded and curious.

1:11:31I'm very fortunate is that I didn't think I had things figured out when I

1:11:34was 20 at all. I was sure that I was a moron.

1:11:39I was good at one thing, kicking people.

1:11:41That's it. And then from then, I realized that there's a lot to learn and

1:11:48that as much as I learned about martial arts, I could apply that sort of

1:11:54open -minded discipline. Because you have to be open -minded to be good at martial

1:12:00arts because you have to be able to listen.

1:12:02You can't think you already know.

1:12:04You cannot. You won't grow and you won't get better.

1:12:07You have to be listening to coaches.

1:12:10You have to be listening to instructors.

1:12:12You have to be listening to your teammates.

1:12:14You have to listen to everybody.

1:12:15If you don't listen, if you have, ah, don't tell me, those people don't go

1:12:20anywhere. And I learned that very early on.

1:12:22It's very fortunate that I found that path because I've applied that to virtually everything

1:12:27that I've ever done in life.

1:12:28Instead of having this belief that I have things figured out.

1:12:32I mean, I've certainly, like, been more sure than I should have been at many

1:12:36times in my life. But always willing to stop and go, maybe I'm wrong.

1:12:42And if it wasn't for this podcast, it would have never gotten to where it

1:12:47is. Because I've fortunately been able to talk to brilliant people.

1:12:54And, you know, I grew up in, I lived in California for 26 years before

1:13:01that. You know, I lived in Boston and New York.

1:13:04I thought of people, the southern accent in particular, right?

1:13:09And this is a standard thing that a lot of people on the coasts have.

1:13:14You hear people talk with a southern accent.

1:13:16You think they're dumb. And it's a terrible stereotype that actually came out because of

1:13:24hookworm parasites. I'm sure you're aware of that story.

1:13:27I'm not. You're not. Educate me.

1:13:30The stereotype of the lazy, dumb -minded southerner came out of the fact that a

1:13:37large percentage of people in the south had contracted hookworms.

1:13:43From walking around barefoot and hookworm parasites will rob you of your intellectual capacity.

1:13:50They greatly diminish your ability to think and exhaust you.

1:13:57You get slower and, you know, in quotes, lazier.

1:14:01But you're really just infected with a parasite.

1:14:03And it's an enormous percentage of the population in the 1900s were infected with hookworm,

1:14:11and in the south in particular, hot climates.

1:14:15And this is where this stereotype came from.

1:14:18When someone like you speaks with such insane recall, like your recall is bananas, like

1:14:24your recall of dates and names and times.

1:14:26And I have a pretty good recall.

1:14:28It's nothing like yours. It's extraordinary.

1:14:30And I love when I meet someone who's brilliant who still has a southern accent

1:14:35because it's like, you know, forget all your stereotypes.

1:14:41Let them all go, baby, because they're not real.

1:14:43It's not real. None of that is real.

1:14:45Individuals vary wildly. And, you know, I've met...

1:14:49Brilliant people from coastal cities, and I've met fucking morons that talk like, you know,

1:14:57a person that you would assume would be a highly educated, intelligent person, but they're

1:15:01closed -minded and foolish in their ways.

1:15:05And having had this ability to have all these different conversations with different people, it's

1:15:11just like every time I have another conversation just expands my understanding just a little

1:15:15more and a little more and a little more.

1:15:17And I love it, and it's all out of curiosity, and I'm very happy that

1:15:21I've been able to make that curiosity infectious.

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1:17:25My favorite cities, and I know we're getting off the beaten path here a little

1:17:28bit. I love to get off the beaten path.

1:17:29That's my favorite thing to do.

1:17:31My favorite cities in America are those that you can go to and not feel

1:17:36like you're in the country.

1:17:38Miami is fabulous. It's a wild place.

1:17:41You should have a passport to go to Miami.

1:17:44It is fabulous. And I remember the first time I went to New York City

1:17:48one time when I was about five years old.

1:17:51The only thing I could remember was the Empire State Building and some dude with

1:17:54purple hair sticking his tongue out at me.

1:17:56The next time was in 2019.

1:17:59And I'd always had kind of that stereotypical southerner's attitude, a bunch of, you know,

1:18:06haughty, rude, mean -acted Yankee people living in an obnoxious locale that would just be

1:18:13hell on earth to have to endure.

1:18:15So I had the opportunity to go and spend a day there and rolled into

1:18:20Grand Central Station on the railway from, I think it was New Haven, Connecticut.

1:18:26And just to watch the dimensions of the architecture as we rolled into the city.

1:18:31Crazy. The expansion of scale of this place.

1:18:34How old were you? Well, let's see.

1:18:36I was about to turn 44.

1:18:39I think I could hear the Beverly Hillbillies music playing in my head when I

1:18:42was going down through there.

1:18:43So we get off our Grand Central Station and I mean, I walked all through

1:18:51that. I walked from Grand Central Station all the way down to the tip of

1:18:56where the World Trade Center was.

1:18:58It was New York City is a monumental human accomplishment.

1:19:05When you can have the entire world within 300 square miles and it is a

1:19:12living affirmation of everything the United States is supposed to be as the last best

1:19:18hope of humankind on earth just to be in that place.

1:19:22Anytime I've gone back since, I mean, the minute that I go to get the

1:19:27Uber at LaGuardia Airport and I see that skyline, I mean, my heart just starts

1:19:31racing, racing, racing. I would have never thought that I would just fall in love

1:19:35with New York City. But it is fabulous.

1:19:37San Francisco is the same way.

1:19:39There are so many wonderful places in the United States where you wouldn't think that

1:19:45somebody necessarily who sounded like me would endorse.

1:19:48But one of the best things that I have done is stop watching television news.

1:19:55The last time I watched television news was after the first Obama press conference in

1:20:00January of 2009. And I cut it off.

1:20:04Wow. Aside from presidential debates and election returns, I've never turned it back on.

1:20:09The number, I shouldn't tell this, the number, the number of times I've left my

1:20:14front door wide open, the garage door open in my neighborhood and nothing has happened

1:20:18is remarkable. This country, in terms of her people, is as much like it was

1:20:27back in 1950 as it has ever been.

1:20:31The complexion is a little different.

1:20:34We've got a lot more diversity now than we've ever had.

1:20:38But once you take that blinder of mass media mayhem and all this fabricated division

1:20:43that is purposely put out there to keep us divided.

1:20:46To keep us tuning in.

1:20:48Tuning in and segregated. Yeah.

1:20:52Once you take yourself out of it and you just start having a conversation.

1:20:55Next time someone gets into an Uber with someone who doesn't have English as a

1:21:01second language, strike up a conversation.

1:21:03EveryEmNT ,Cuid Bespin. Let's see you.

1:21:03I... How did you come to the United States?

1:21:06What brought you here? And your heart is going to fill with just the unbelievable

1:21:13amount of pride and love to hear those accents from the Middle East and from

1:21:20Africa speak about this country in ways that take us right back to 1776.

1:21:26It's a fabulous place, and I'm able to say so much of this because of

1:21:32what the plans have helped clarify by way of that universal human divinity that we

1:21:38all share, that this country is the cradle to protect and to honor, which is

1:21:44what makes this mission so incredibly important.

1:21:47And I do want to—oh, I'm sorry.

1:21:48No, go ahead. There's two people that I left off of our ambassador program that

1:21:52I think are really showstoppers I want to mention.

1:21:55One is a gentleman by the name of Rear Admiral Jim Hancock.

1:22:00This gentleman received Ibogaine treatment for his wounds of war.

1:22:04He was the Navy Medical Corps chief and was the medical officer for the United

1:22:10States Marine Corps. One of our other ambassadors is a gentleman by the name of

1:22:15General Glenn Curtis. He served in both Gulf Wars.

1:22:19He served in Afghanistan. His most recent stint of service was as the commanding general

1:22:24for the Louisiana National Guard, and he is one of our prime spokespeople for legislation

1:22:29that's pending in Louisiana right now to join Texas as a partner in this Ibogaine

1:22:33trial. That's fantastic. Please say what you were going to because I'm curious.

1:22:38I don't even remember. Hey, well, I remember what I wanted to talk about.

1:22:41So, and I want to get us back on the track that we were talking

1:22:47about. You know, Brian's done a great job to discuss the spiritual aspect of the

1:22:55medicine and what I mean.

1:22:57That's incredibly important. Don't get me wrong on that at all.

1:23:00And, and, but what brought me personally to the medicine, obviously my relationship with Marcus

1:23:10and Morgan and what have you, and then as I studied it, I'm like, if

1:23:15you're really going to be a legitimate spokesperson for this, if you're going to, you

1:23:23know, put your reputation out there, you need to be treated.

1:23:26You need to go through the treatment.

1:23:30And I'm going to get to you at the end of this conversation, but I

1:23:34want to set this up if I may.

1:23:37And in 2023, if my memory serves me correct, this is the same time that

1:23:42Nolan Williams was heading up the 30 veteran study that Stanford was going to oversee,

1:23:49kind of the early days, if you will, of some clinical trial type effort to

1:23:57have the data, to have the background, some early day efforts to start educating the

1:24:03public about that is how I do this.

1:24:06They had 30 vets. I think they were between the ages of like 22 and

1:24:1142. Uh, they all had moderate, uh, to severe PTSD.

1:24:18Uh, they were, uh, some of them, uh, addicted to alcohol.

1:24:25Uh, they, you know, they were pretty classic veteran population that had some real challenges.

1:24:32Um, they were sent, well, to, to Stanford and they did baseline functional MRIs and

1:24:43then they were sent down to Ambio, uh, just south of Tijuana where they were

1:24:49given the, the treatment. Um, and then that last, I think about a four day,

1:24:57uh, treatment protocol, you go down, work your way in, Tuesday, you get in preparation,

1:25:06Tuesday evening, you get the compound, Wednesday's a recovery day, Thursday, there's a five MEO

1:25:13DMT treatment, and then you go home.

1:25:16Um, they went back to Stanford after five days after the treatment and had follow

1:25:26-up MRIs. I think they had an MRI at 30 days and then a functional

1:25:31MRI at six months. So there, there was a, you know, good, good piece of,

1:25:37of, of data there to look at.

1:25:40Just stunningly good results. Um, and, uh, the, the results.

1:25:46I think there was 87 % of them who six months now, better than two

1:25:53years later, uh, but that have zero PTSD.

1:25:57Uh, the addictions were at that level of reduction that we talked about in the

1:26:02high 80 percentiles. I mean, just, I mean, we've seen all of this data before.

1:26:07This is nothing new. But the reason I share that with you is that I

1:26:13basically went down and followed the same protocol.

1:26:18I wasn't part of the clinical trial, but, and I only wanted to be treated

1:26:23with ibogaine. I did not want to take the five MEO DMT.

1:26:25So what I was looking at, and I was interested in this from the brain

1:26:30regenerative side of it. I had about as bucolic a life as you've ever had.

1:26:34I never had anybody mistreat me to, of, of anything that you could even get

1:26:39close to calling traumatic, uh, effect.

1:26:42I had no trauma in my life.

1:26:44I grew up on a dry land, cotton farm, you know, 60 miles from Abilene,

1:26:48Texas, 16 miles from closest place that had a post office, uh, in a part

1:26:52of Texas that there's just a lovely, wonderful, loving place.

1:26:56My mom and dad loved me and I knew it.

1:26:58And, you know, my scout master and my principal and my superintendent and my Sunday

1:27:03school class, who, by the way, were all the same person and he drove the

1:27:07bus and was a football coach.

1:27:09But I, I had a, as non -traumatic growing up period as you could imagine.

1:27:18So, I was concussed, severely concussed, three times, twice in athletic events, and I'm talking

1:27:30about knocked out completely for over one minute.

1:27:35And those are severe concussions.

1:27:39Two times athletic events, one time unloading horses, knocked completely out.

1:27:43So, what I know now is that as I got to pilot training and I

1:27:50started noticing that I was having trouble sleeping and that this thing that I understood

1:27:58later in life was anxiety had crept into my life.

1:28:02So, I had, I'm going to put it in the mild category, anxiety and insomnia.

1:28:14I went into a very odd line of work in politics to have those two

1:28:18kind of things. And I masked them rather well.

1:28:23Most people didn't know I had that.

1:28:25My wife did. But other than that, even my, you know, senior staff in my

1:28:29offices through the year, agriculture commissioner, lieutenant governor, governor, they did not know that I

1:28:35had this challenge of, you know, maybe sleeping three and a half, four hours a

1:28:41night, being anxious at times to the point of being never dysfunctional.

1:28:51But from my perspective, probably some people out there in the political world said, hell,

1:28:56Perry, you were dysfunctional the whole damn time.

1:28:57What are you talking about?

1:28:58Anyway, beside the point. I had the treatment.

1:29:05I had the brain scan going in.

1:29:10I had the brain scan a week later and I had the brain scan at

1:29:13six months. The first brain scan, they said, look, your brain looks pretty good for

1:29:25a 73 -year -old guy.

1:29:26He said, you know, you're actually in pretty good shape.

1:29:29You don't have a lot of atrophy.

1:29:30You got some mild atrophy.

1:29:33But your brain looks pretty good.

1:29:37The week after scan showed a 27 % increase in the prefrontal cortex of my

1:29:49brain. That's where your focus, your concentration, your emotions reside.

1:29:55I had a 27 % increase in that prefrontal cortex activity.

1:30:02My six -month scan, I have a dear friend who's a neurosurgeon from Tyler, Dr.

1:30:15Charlie Gordon, who is a 40 -plus year neurosurgeon, spine expert, looked at lots of

1:30:24brain scans. A respectful skeptic of this.

1:30:30When I told him I was going to be treated with this compound called ibogaine,

1:30:36this psychoactive compound, he was recoiled a little bit.

1:30:41He was like, you need to be really careful with that.

1:30:48He has now gone from being respectful, skeptic, to looking at the data from the

1:30:55clinical trial that was done at Stanford, talking to a fairly good number of the

1:31:02veterans that went through that trial, talking to Dr.

1:31:05Williams, talking to other specialists at Stanford.

1:31:08And he has gone from respectful skeptic to a full -on believer in this medicine.

1:31:17I mean, an absolute supporter that this medicine does what it says it does.

1:31:24It heals people of addictions.

1:31:28It heals from PTSD. This medicine does what it does.

1:31:33And we're driving back from the airport that day after the six -month scan.

1:31:38He had looked at it as it came off of the machine.

1:31:42And he said, Governor, I'm not going to blow smoke up your dress.

1:31:50Your atrophy is gone. He said, I have no idea why this has happened.

1:31:57But he said, the difference between your initial baseline scan and six months later, clearly

1:32:07the atrophy in your brain is gone.

1:32:11He said, your brain looks like a 40 -year -old.

1:32:14Now, the reason I share that story with you is because, number one, that's partly

1:32:22what drives me about this is that there is a regenerative aspect of this medicine

1:32:28that we don't really understand yet.

1:32:31And if it does what we think it's going to do, and that's the reason

1:32:35these clinical trials are just so stunningly important.

1:32:38That's the reason what the Center for Brain Health and what they're going to be

1:32:42doing and the data they're going to be collecting.

1:32:44I'm convinced of what this data is going to show.

1:32:48But for all of those individuals out there who don't have substance abuse problems, who

1:32:54weren't traumatized as a child, but who have been concussed.

1:32:59And we know that that damage is out there and that the cumulative side, Robert

1:33:07Gallery, that great professional football player who had really bad CTE, and he will tell

1:33:14you today this medicine saved his life.

1:33:17My question for you, Joe Rogan, is how many times you think you've been concussed

1:33:24in life? I don't know.

1:33:32I have no idea. Dozens.

1:33:35Yeah, I'd have to go back and think about times.

1:33:41Most of it was from sparring or a few from fights.

1:33:47But if we think about that, if there is this cumulative effect.

1:33:51Yeah. Are you – how old are you now?

1:33:55Fifty -eight. Would Joe Rogan be willing to say, you know what?

1:34:01But I've seen enough. I believe that this medicine does what you say it will

1:34:09do. And for a person like me, that it could be incredibly helpful to my

1:34:17long -term plan of living a long and healthy and engaged life that Joe Rogan

1:34:27would go and be treated with Ibogaine.

1:34:30Yeah, I would definitely. I would definitely do it.

1:34:33I'm very fascinated by it.

1:34:34Cool. I mean I've never heard anybody say, I wish I didn't do it.

1:34:39He mentioned his brain scans post -treatment.

1:34:42But a couple of weeks ago while I was at that One Earth gathering, I

1:34:48met a lady whom I will call Lonnie.

1:34:50And she had just returned from an Ibogaine treatment in November of 25.

1:34:56She relayed an early life of just ungodly physical abuse by her father who was

1:35:02addicted to OxyContin. You know, we began this conversation about the realities of the opioid

1:35:08epidemic in America. While death is the most terminal outcome is measured down about 700

1:35:14,000 Americans, there is a much broader web of hardcore travesty that exists around each

1:35:22of those death outcomes. And Lonnie experienced that.

1:35:27She had multiple concussions from her own father.

1:35:30Like many individuals who experience trauma of this nature, she developed her own drug addiction.

1:35:36She was in and out of jail.

1:35:37She was homeless at a different point in time.

1:35:40She managed to get recovered.

1:35:42She had a separate traumatic brain injury that was fairly severe in 2018.

1:35:45And then she was diagnosed with what I believe is called young onset Parkinson's, Parkinson's

1:35:54diagnosis that is pre -age 50.

1:35:57Her Parkinson's had progressed to the point to where she could not write because of

1:36:02the tremulousness in her hands.

1:36:04So when I saw her two weeks ago and she introduced herself, she had all

1:36:11of the appearance and affect of a perfectly healthy human being.

1:36:15It was only after we sat down and she explained what her experience had been

1:36:19and where she was at now that the Ibogaine disclosure was made.

1:36:24Her hand was just as calm as mine.

1:36:27And she said that it had been essentially three months and that she had been

1:36:33able to resume a normal life and that her mind felt restored.

1:36:36Now, based on the responses we got after our first interview with you, I want

1:36:40to be very careful here.

1:36:42This is truly the edge of science.

1:36:46And there is much unknown about the variety of Parkinson's that this can treat.

1:36:51There is some suggestion that it is better for those who have a genetic predisposition

1:36:58for the disease than it is for those who contract Parkinson's as the result of

1:37:03environmental exposure. Ibogaine does not appear to have any impact on Parkinson's developed as a

1:37:09result of exposure to environmental toxin.

1:37:12The stage of the disease at which you catch it also appears to make a

1:37:16big difference. The earlier, the better.

1:37:18It has also been asserted that Ibogaine does not cure Parkinson's.

1:37:22What it does is slows disease progression and creates for some a broad window of

1:37:29opportunity for the restoration of function that can dramatically improve the quality of life.

1:37:34Now, I'm just given a number of qualifiers about its impact and efficacy on one

1:37:40individual. But think about what we just said here.

1:37:43This is a woman who was diagnosed with young -onset Parkinson's.

1:37:46She had lost the ability to write because of the tremulousness in her hands.

1:37:50She's four months out from a treatment and she's been able to resume her full

1:37:54normal life with a complete restoration of function.

1:37:57If we could get a COVID vaccine out in nine months, there is no reason

1:38:05why with the focused effort of Texas and the other states we'll discuss here momentarily

1:38:10that we cannot achieve the moonshot of our time within three years or less.

1:38:16And that is the completion of an Ibogaine medication that can be fully integrated into

1:38:23the U .S. healthcare system and made just as universally available as every ineffective opioid

1:38:29-based treatment that we currently deploy through the medical system at a cost of $700

1:38:36,000 per patient sponsored by Indivior, which is one of the chief pharmaceutical developers of

1:38:42everything that we have that fails 75 % of the time.

1:38:49Yeah, I mean, if we could do it, it would be pretty extraordinary.

1:38:54And if it is done, I really do believe that it would have a complete

1:38:59changing of society. When people have no hope and there's nothing and then all of

1:39:04a sudden there's something that comes along that you do it once and it's an

1:39:0685 % effective rate and you do it twice and it's in the high 90s.

1:39:11I mean, how many people are out there struggling with something, whether it's alcoholism, whether

1:39:18it's obesity, whether it's, you know, that's another thing.

1:39:22Like there's people that are calming themselves with food, right?

1:39:26And it's masking. That's probably a sugar addiction, don't you think?

1:39:29I mean, from the standpoint of...

1:39:31It is, but for a lot of people, there's something else.

1:39:35You know, for some people, it's sexual abuse when they're younger and they eat.

1:39:40Interesting. It's an addiction. And it's not just a physical addiction, it's a psychological addiction.

1:39:47I brought up gambling because I know a lot of people that are addicted to

1:39:50gambling. Pornography. Yeah, pornography, sure.

1:39:53There's a lot of things.

1:39:54The non -session models we mentioned are ones who had developed those eating disorders, one

1:39:59of which was a compulsive eater as a result of that childhood sexual abuse.

1:40:04Ibogaine was the treatment of last resort, not the first option.

1:40:08And their own recovery story, which can be found on the Americans for Ibogaine website,

1:40:12is truly extraordinary. And speaking of extraordinary, when we came in here to push Texas,

1:40:19our belief was and still is and is now playing out at scale that if

1:40:25Texas did this, it would be joined by a number of other states who are

1:40:30no longer willing to sit and wait on an inefficient, often incompetent, and also incompetently

1:40:40corrupt federal bureaucracy that will not move in response to the genuine needs of the

1:40:46American people at the pace that it needs to.

1:40:49There are a variety of well -intentioned reformers within the current administration, Secretary Kennedy, Secretary

1:40:58Collins, and others, who have voiced their support for the advancement of plant medicine as

1:41:04breakthrough treatments primarily for U .S.

1:41:06warfighters, but also for other members of our society for whom these medications could help.

1:41:12We believe that these individuals are stymied by two realities.

1:41:17The first reality is the Byzantine complexity of the federal bureaucracy, the degree to which

1:41:23it has been compromised by the institutional capture of much of its functioning by companies

1:41:30that make money on keeping problems alive.

1:41:32We think they're probably also stymied by perhaps some other political cross -currents within the

1:41:39administration that view psychedelics with skepticism and that are therefore willing to be indiscriminate in

1:41:45their resistance to the advancement of any of them when, in fact, the advancement of

1:41:50this one is of existential critical importance as a breakthrough treatment for millions of Americans

1:41:56who need it now. And so to that end, Americans for Ibogaine following the Texas

1:42:03success convened a gathering of 200 people in Aspen, Colorado in November of last year.

1:42:10These individuals were invited, appointed and elected state officials from 22 individual states and aligned

1:42:16citizens of influence who would be willing, as the Texans were here, to get behind

1:42:21efforts in state legislatures to create a partnership with Texas that by any result will

1:42:29form the unstoppable external force through the states that can crash through the federal wall

1:42:34using not just their resources, but their political influence to execute one unified FDA drug

1:42:41development trial and to force the federal government to be responsive to everything that is

1:42:46required to ensure it is successful.

1:42:48So as we sit here today, we have been working with elected officials in Alabama,

1:42:55Georgia, Idaho, Maryland, Michigan, New Hampshire, South Carolina, Vermont, Ohio, Pennsylvania, Florida, South Dakota, and

1:43:07California, each of whom have legislators who are willing to introduce and to pursue bills

1:43:12to join their states into Texas as this trial.

1:43:14Governor Perry and I spoke to the American Legislative Exchange Council as keynote speakers on

1:43:20December 5th of last year.

1:43:21This is an umbrella think tank organization for center -right, mostly Republican legislatures from across

1:43:28the country. In its entire existence, ALEC has taken two positions when it comes on

1:43:34the war on drugs. More prison, more penalties, more prison, more penalties.

1:43:40Add if an item. After we spoke about the necessity of Ibogaine's medical integration into

1:43:48the United States and the capacity of the states to force this reality into being,

1:43:53ALEC issued a formal position statement as well as model legislation endorsing what we call

1:43:59the American Ibogaine Initiative to bring the states all together to make this happen with

1:44:04one unified voice. And so now, as we sit here with you today, in the

1:44:10state of Tennessee, there are two bills, one each in the state House and the

1:44:15state Senate, that are making its way through that legislature to join Texas.

1:44:19Before we walked in here this morning, the Tennessee Senate Finance Committee voted 11 to

1:44:24nothing to move Tennessee's bill forward to the full state Senate for consideration in what

1:44:28will, I believe, be passage.

1:44:30And I would like to give a shout -out to a special sister by the

1:44:33name of Ricky Harris, who has led that Tennessee campaign.

1:44:37Right now, there are two bills in the Missouri legislature, House Bill 2817 and Senate

1:44:42Bill 1581, which are receiving good, considerate, deliberative thought by legislators there, but frankly need

1:44:50a little motivation. So if you're in Missouri and you want to see Ibogaine medicine

1:44:54for your family member, for your community, for your state, you call into the Missouri

1:44:59legislature and say, move the Ibogaine bill forward to join Missouri with Texas.

1:45:03Oklahoma, the Oklahoma House of Representatives has passed its Ibogaine bill.

1:45:08It is now pending in its Senate.

1:45:10In Louisiana, Senate Bill 43 has been introduced to join that state to Texas.

1:45:15And in what I can only describe as full circle justice, the Kentucky Senate passed

1:45:22Senate Bill 77 by a margin of 35 to 2 to join Kentucky, where this

1:45:28all began with Texas as a state partner in this Ibogaine drug development trial.

1:45:33It is now sitting in the Kentucky House of Representatives.

1:45:36So you, if you are at home, please call the Kentucky House of Representatives and

1:45:42ask them to pass the Kentucky Ibogaine initiative so the state will not be left

1:45:46out. Now, here are some just unbelievable words that are going to come out of

1:45:53my mouth. The state of West Virginia, their House of Delegates by a vote of

1:45:5996 to nothing. Our state senate unanimously passed their Ibogaine bill to join Texas, and

1:46:06it has now been sent to their governor for signature.

1:46:09And the one that is the most poignant and moving for all the obvious reasons,

1:46:15the state of Mississippi, the crucible for the triumph of uniquely American hope over horror,

1:46:26and of the leadership of Representative Sam Creekmore, its state house of representatives passed by

1:46:32a margin of 111 to 1, and its state senate passed by a margin of

1:46:3751 to 1. The Mississippi Ibogaine initiative, which will tie the state of Mississippi with

1:46:43a $5 million appropriation from its opioid fund to Texas to develop the most powerful

1:46:50psychedelic on the planet as a breakthrough treatment for trauma and addiction for the people

1:46:55of Mississippi. That's incredible. It is going to be signed, actually has been legally signed

1:47:01by Governor Tate Reeves, and Governor Perry and I have asked for a special signing

1:47:09ceremony with Representative Creekmore, his legislative leaders there, to stand in Jackson, Mississippi, and see

1:47:15that signed into law as a matter of ceremonial formality.

1:47:19What a wonderfully redemptive opportunity that we have here to shepherd.

1:47:24And we hope and pray that our organization can be sufficiently resourced and sufficiently engaged

1:47:30over the next three years so that we can see this process to conclusion.

1:47:34I'll mention a couple of others since we're talking about the capacity to make this

1:47:39a broad -based humanitarian mission that improves the human condition.

1:47:44Just Friday, before traveling down here on Sunday, I received a letter from the government

1:47:49of Gabon, naming Americans for Ibogaine as its official partner for the advancement of Iboga

1:47:55medicine globally. Gabon has 2 .3 million people.

1:47:59It's got 100 ,000 square miles of territory that's the modern Garden of Eden.

1:48:04I've had the opportunity to take a trip there from, and I mean trip as

1:48:07in the geographic sense, not the cycle, not the Iboga trip, though I hope that

1:48:14that will be on the agenda in the ceremonial way sometime within the next year.

1:48:19We traveled there from January 6th to January 20th, and if someone would have said,

1:48:25when you go to Gabon, you're going to have one of the most down -home

1:48:28experiences you've ever had in my life, it would have blown my mind.

1:48:31But it was a fabulous journey, one in which they were jubilant about our ability

1:48:38to demonstrate that what they call the sacred wood, in fact, is one of the

1:48:42most scientifically advanced substances that has perhaps ever been discovered.

1:48:46And we're honored that the government would choose us as their partner to move this

1:48:50forward. On Monday, after a conference call with Chief Gary Batten, I can confirm that

1:49:01the Choctaw Nation will seek to join Texas in the expansion of this Ibogaine drug

1:49:07development trial onto their sovereign territory as the third -largest Native American tribe in the

1:49:13country. On April 7th, I will be traveling to Durant, Oklahoma, for what is being

1:49:20called the Inter -Tribal Council meeting of what they describe as the five civilized tribes.

1:49:25That's their name, not mine.

1:49:26This is a gathering of the leadership of the Choctaw, the Chickasaw, the Cherokee, the

1:49:33Mosquakee, and the Seminole. We expect a passage of a resolution that I will be

1:49:40there to lobby for, where the five civilized tribes will declare their solidarity with Americans

1:49:46for Ibogaine for the integration of this divine emancipator into the U .S.

1:49:52health care system as expeditiously as possible and make all of their resources available to

1:49:57explore the extent to which we can operationalize Ibogaine medicine as quickly as possible.

1:50:03And it's my hope and aspiration that we will see all of Native America join

1:50:08this effort before the end of this year.

1:50:10Can I stop you there?

1:50:11Would that make it so that they would be able to immediately establish retreats there?

1:50:16So similar to the way they have casinos?

1:50:19Because they don't have the same sort of regulations that some states do.

1:50:24Tribal sovereignty is an area of the law with which I am not familiar.

1:50:29I would not be able to speak to the degree to which they could autonomously

1:50:33open a clinic. The most immediate issue would be related to the creation of a

1:50:38supply chain, because you have traveled through interstate commerce in the U .S.

1:50:42states, which are theoretically restricted.

1:50:44However, there is one spectacular opportunity not just to expedite the creation of Ibogaine treatment

1:50:52access for Native America, but for all of America.

1:50:55And this gets into federal right to try legislation, authored by former U .S.

1:51:02Senator Kirsten Sinema and signed by the president during his first administration in 2018.

1:51:09What federal right to try legislation or the law provides is that once any medication

1:51:18makes its way through phase one safety testing within the FDA's process, then anyone with

1:51:26a life -threatening condition for which that medication is being developed can request treatment with

1:51:32that medication and obtain it from a will and prescriber.

1:51:36What does that mean? That means that as soon as Texas or as soon as

1:51:44one of the Native tribes effectively completes a phase one safety study under the language

1:51:50of the law, anyone who has a life -threatening condition for which this medication is

1:51:57being developed, first and foremost, opioid dependency, can go and request and get the treatment.

1:52:03We have one complication. Presently, the Drug Enforcement Administration, in keeping with the practice of

1:52:12many government agencies that use their arbitrary authority to interpret.

1:52:16The law has asserted that federal right to try does not apply to Schedule I

1:52:23substances. This means that based on not the language of the law, but on DEA's

1:52:30interpretation preference of that law, once I began clears through phase one, it would be

1:52:37disqualified for access under federal right to try because the DEA says that if Schedule

1:52:43I substances were intended to be included, they would have been specifically listed in the

1:52:50legislation. When Kirsten Sinema, the author of the bill, explained to them that the language

1:52:56is unambiguous and it says any medication, their response was insolence and a refusal to

1:53:05honor what the statute actually says, which is one of these numerous examples of the

1:53:10use of fictitious legal realities to do violence to legitimate reality.

1:53:15The DEA needs to be told to relent on its misinterpretation and extrajudicial interpretation of

1:53:23federal right to try, to interpret it as written so that once any phase one

1:53:29study on Ibogaine is completed, delivery can be effectuated through the medical system immediately.

1:53:36And I might add one of the challenges that I've seen over my 40 years

1:53:41of being involved in government is that bureaucrats, the easiest and the safest answer for

1:53:49a bureaucrat is no. And I think that's part of what we're running into in

1:53:54D .C. with the DEA.

1:53:57One of the issues that I certainly hope and pray and as we go through

1:54:03the summer and as we see what's happening in Texas and Mississippi and these other

1:54:07states, that we'll have the opportunity to sit down with President Trump and to just

1:54:14share with him what we're doing, what we're seeing across the country, and that we

1:54:20could potentially have a conversation about the rescheduling of Ibogaine from one to three.

1:54:28Two or three. You know, just get it out of that schedule one, which there's

1:54:34no reason in the world, and you've talked about this many times, Joe, that Ibogaine

1:54:38is on schedule one. It does have medical purposes.

1:54:41I mean, it's very clear it does.

1:54:43And secondly, it is not addictive.

1:54:45So the idea on its face that Ibogaine is shown as this schedule one compound

1:54:54is just a fallacy. Well, the schedule one, the sweeping schedule one act of 1970

1:54:58is just nuts. They just threw a bunch of stuff in there.

1:55:01Many of the things that aren't even psychoactive.

1:55:04A question, the Ibogatree, can it be grown in the United States?

1:55:11Theoretically, it could be... Is it climate dependent?

1:55:15It's climate dependent. It's soil dependent.

1:55:18It is considered an entourage plant whereby it absorbs essentially the essence, not just of

1:55:29the soil around it, but of the other botanicals.

1:55:32One of the things we learned in Gabon is that much like we have grape

1:55:36varietals in California for all the different kinds of wine that they produce, there are

1:55:41different varieties of the Iboga shrub.

1:55:44How it grows in the north of the country is very different than how it

1:55:46grows in the south. In terms of the amount of compound that's in it or

1:55:50the type of compound that's in it?

1:55:52The potency, the strength, the nature of its effect on the person, the way that

1:55:59it kind of facilitates the spiritual journey.

1:56:04There's some of it that will kind of have a dark angle.

1:56:07There's some of it that has more of a light angle.

1:56:10We are just really scratching the surface of knowledge as to all the ways in

1:56:16which it can vary based on how it grows naturally.

1:56:20One of the most fascinating things that we learned there, and this is going to

1:56:23give you chills. We visited a five -hectare, they use the metric system, we visited

1:56:31a five -hectare Iboga plantation right in the center of Lieberville that is run by

1:56:36one of their former prime ministers.

1:56:38It's an experimental farm to kind of understand how it grows, the optimal ways in

1:56:45which to grow it, and what different outcomes are.

1:56:48So as we were walking along, we came to these two small bushes.

1:56:53It takes for it about 10 years to come to maturation.

1:56:56We come along this pathway, and they were two shrubs, identical, growing just a couple

1:57:02of feet apart from each other.

1:57:03And they pointed those out and said, Now, what does that look like to you?

1:57:07And I said, Well, those are Iboga shrubs.

1:57:08And they smiled, and they said, Well, it would appear so, because they are identical.

1:57:15They said, But in nature, when you find an Iboga shrub, you're going to have

1:57:20to be very careful to determine which one's which, because in nature it looks like

1:57:24they grow in pairs. One is the real deal.

1:57:29The other is its poison imposter.

1:57:33Oh. And they grow together.

1:57:35And they look identical? They look identical.

1:57:37How do you differentiate? It's not until they get fully grown into their 10th year.

1:57:44One bears fruit, which is the real deal, and the other does not.

1:57:48Wow. Now, how does that do you for the physical communication of a mystical spiritual

1:57:55reality? So it takes 10 years for it to come to fruition to the point

1:57:59where it could be useful?

1:58:01No. Though you could use it before then, but you don't know whether you're getting

1:58:05the real deal or you're just killing yourself.

1:58:07When you see them grow in pairs, that's correct.

1:58:10So there's one group of people who know how to differentiate.

1:58:14One of the things that we learned is that there is a healthy underground international

1:58:18market for the bark. Just like we use vitamin B complex or we use valerian

1:58:24root to help us go to sleep, people in Gabon will use the iboga bark

1:58:30for... Mental acuity and just like drinking a cup of coffee.

1:58:33I mean to get the psychoactive effect you have to eat like five big huge

1:58:39heaping plates of this stuff over the course of time.

1:58:42It's so bitter it will burn your mouth.

1:58:44I mean it's an Olympian ordeal.

1:58:46This is the bark. Yes sir.

1:58:48It's an Olympian ordeal to consume the amount of bark that's necessary to get that

1:58:53mystical effect and you're sicker than a dog the whole time you're doing it.

1:58:56But apparently piracy in the country for the shrub is fairly prominent.

1:59:01And they explained that what poachers will do is that they will take the poison

1:59:06imposter and basically like the street supply where you put pollutants in with you know

1:59:11cocaine or whatever here. They put that imposter bark in with the real because you

1:59:16cannot visually differentiate. The Umbongo pygmy who we had the privilege of meeting who hosted

1:59:23us for an overnight ceremony of blessing and protection that was just phenomenal.

1:59:28They apparently can just taste the bark even when it's mixed together and they can

1:59:33tell if it's adulterated with the imposter.

1:59:36Wow. But to know that.

1:59:39Those are like sommeliers of Ibogaine.

1:59:41Yes. That's a great way to put it.

1:59:44An Ibogaine sommelier. Might have to go over and get tutored.

1:59:48Yeah I wonder what that process is like.

1:59:53Boy. Well it's just it seems to me that with the incredible effectiveness of this

1:59:59compound and it being adopted by all these states he said it almost seems inevitable

2:00:04that change is coming. Well here's what we need to make change happen.

2:00:10We need the DEA to get on board.

2:00:12Well we need the DEA to get on board but we need one man to

2:00:16get on board and that man is the president of the United States.

2:00:19We're here to recognize America in her 250th year.

2:00:2525 of those 250 now 10 percent of time has been spent at war and

2:00:33there are conditions unique to war that only this medication can responsibly address in a

2:00:40way that nothing else can.

2:00:42If there is an opportunity to improve the human condition at scale particularly for those

2:00:50who are even right now being marched in to go and fight yet another war.

2:00:55Taking executive action that would direct Ibogaine to be moved to Schedule 2.

2:01:02That the provisions of the Halt Fentanyl Act be applied to the Texas multi -state

2:01:08Ibogaine drug development trial. That the DEA be directed to interpret federal right to try

2:01:14so as to not exclude Schedule 1 medications that are in drug development and that

2:01:19it be appropriately interpreted so that any medication that makes it through Phase 1 can

2:01:25be accessed by a person with a life -threatening condition and then directed that federal

2:01:30scientific research agencies whether they be within Health and Human Services or the Pentagon come

2:01:36alongside the states in direct partnership to fund and foster the accelerated pharmacological development of

2:01:44Ibogaine so that this medication can make its way all the way through the FDA's

2:01:48process with their supportive guidance within three years or less.

2:01:53It is the moonshot of our time and if there's a humanitarian legacy to be

2:01:58left for the ages by a president who very much wishes to have a legacy

2:02:04that is well reflected upon by posterity this is one of the most monumental opportunities

2:02:11he has to help folks at scale in a way that no president perhaps has

2:02:17before. We're at an inflection point in history not just for this country but globally.

2:02:23Well I certainly hope that this message reaches the president and I will try to

2:02:27make sure that it does.

2:02:29Thank you sir. I mean I think in terms of the amount of people that

2:02:34it can help in the crisis that our country is enduring with opiate addiction with

2:02:38PTSD with all sorts of trauma with CTE with from sports from car accidents and

2:02:45and what have you. I mean this is I mean it's astonishing that this is

2:02:51even a struggle. When you consider the effectiveness of this it's astonishing that we have

2:02:57to plead and that you have to put in so much work and kudos to

2:03:01you for doing that and kudos to Dan Patrick for this recent adoption of it

2:03:06here in Texas and I mean I just can only hope that momentum is on

2:03:12the side that's correct and that this this is implemented through the entire country and

2:03:19that people wake up and realize like we can help people and everyone at this

2:03:23point in time because the opioid crisis everyone's touched by this.

2:03:27Everyone has a family member everyone knows someone a friend a neighbor everyone everyone knows

2:03:32someone who's been hit by this.

2:03:34I have friends that have no problems with anything else and they had an injury

2:03:38and got hooked on opiates and had a terrible time kicking it.

2:03:44Opioids are I'll use the word demonic I I just I don't know any other

2:03:49way to it's a good word rob people of their life and and and to

2:03:55have seen you know back in Kentucky uh where this all started in my opinion

2:04:00uh in your work there uh and to have uh the success that we're seeing

2:04:06now in Kentucky and having it blocked historically uh when you were there at the

2:04:11opioid uh there at the opioid uh abatement commission and and and the current governor

2:04:16being a part of that uh uh blockade if you will former employee of the

2:04:21of the Sackler family uh and and today to have the opportunity uh you know

2:04:28for for the Kentucky people of Kentucky to finally get the opportunity to uh make

2:04:35right what they got uh so tragically impacted by uh back in the uh late

2:04:4390s and the 2000s I just I mean It gives me great hope, not just

2:04:49for this country, but for the side of righteousness that this happens in a big

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2:05:27He mentions the Kentucky experience.

2:05:30Before we rolled out the Ibogaine initiative there and stood up the opioid commission, I

2:05:37thought our first job was to go and to hear from the people of the

2:05:40state. You know, we were getting a billion dollars in settlement funds.

2:05:43This money was coming to us because thousands of their family members had died.

2:05:48So recognizing that confidence in government is at an all -time low, I thought it

2:05:53was important to go out and say, hey, here's who we are.

2:05:56Here's the job we've been given.

2:05:57Here's the resource we have.

2:05:58Tell us what need you have in your community that we can look to fund.

2:06:04This is something that needs to be accessible to grassroots organizations.

2:06:08It needs to be accountable to you as people.

2:06:10And we need to make sure we're transparent with how we use this money.

2:06:13But our first job is to listen.

2:06:15Well, over the course of 20 town halls across the state, Tuesday evenings from 6

2:06:20p .m. until we wrapped up, what began as a 15 -minute technocratic presentation of

2:06:25what this state commission does turned into these mass catharsis events where hundreds of people,

2:06:37thousands over the course of those 20 town halls, poured out the depths of their

2:06:41grief right at our feet.

2:06:43And after they did, the sum total of their response to us was, we don't

2:06:49think that you have the competence or the integrity to do anything that's going to

2:06:57make a meaningful difference in this life, in our lives.

2:07:00And we don't expect one cent of this money is going to make the least

2:07:04bit of difference for us.

2:07:05At one of these town halls, I heard about a young woman by the name

2:07:10of Tamara. And the woman who told Tamara's story was a volunteer at a clinic

2:07:17for the survivors of child sexual abuse.

2:07:19This particular clinic made sure that children received appropriate medical treatment, that they received proper

2:07:26therapeutic counseling, and that they were placed in family circumstances where they could perhaps have

2:07:33a chance to have a decent life.

2:07:35So this volunteer told about meeting a young woman by the name of Tamara when

2:07:38Tamara was 10 years old.

2:07:40Had been horrifically sexually abused by a family member.

2:07:43Tamara had to have a series of reconstructive surgeries because of how awful it was.

2:07:49And she said that she worked with Tamara for about two or three years and

2:07:54that she went to her adopted family and she hadn't been heard from since.

2:08:00And that she assumed that that was, despite how awful her circumstances were when she

2:08:04came through the door, that she managed to get well and go on and have

2:08:08a relatively functional and happy life, as happy as one can to be a survivor

2:08:14of those circumstances. This same woman said that about 10 years later, she was volunteering

2:08:21at the Perry County Kentucky Detention Center in the county seat of Hazard, and that

2:08:28she was offering mindfulness and yoga classes to inmates there, just as a volunteer.

2:08:34And she said she went in one evening to teach her class and that she

2:08:39saw this young woman sitting in the corner off to herself, kind of withdrawn.

2:08:43She didn't want to come participate in any of the yoga exercises or anything, and

2:08:46that she was looking at her.

2:08:48And she said, you know, even though she was an adult, she looked kind of

2:08:51like what this young woman appeared, Tamara, when she was 10 years old.

2:08:55And she said, so I walked up to her and knelt down beside her, and

2:08:58I said, is your name Tamara?

2:09:03And she said that young woman looked up at her and recognized, and I asked

2:09:07Brian, and she said, yes.

2:09:08How did you know? She said, I'm a volunteer who worked with you when you

2:09:12came to our clinic when you were 10.

2:09:14What are you doing in here?

2:09:16And Tamara explained that because of the surgeries that she had performed to be reconstructed,

2:09:24they had given her opioids, and that what began to treat her physical pain, she

2:09:30continued to rely upon to treat her tremendous spiritual and emotional pain.

2:09:38And she had gotten busted by an oxy on the street by a deputy with

2:09:44the Perry County Sheriff's Department and put in jail.

2:09:48Now, you think about what I just said about how this young woman's life got

2:09:51started off. And the response of power to her was a prison.

2:09:57This is why what we're doing is so necessary.

2:10:00And Governor Perry mentions one other reality that's important.

2:10:04Some of your viewers may have seen a Politico article published on Sunday about a

2:10:14presidential aspirant by the name of Andy Beshear, who is the current Kentucky governor.

2:10:22Andy Beshear was the attorney general of Kentucky before he was governor.

2:10:29He is the son of his father, Steve Beshear, who was governor for eight years

2:10:36between 2007 and 2015. Andy's greatest accomplishment is being his father's son because he has

2:10:46never accomplished anything outside of his father's lap.

2:10:51The legislature in Kentucky has been controlled by Republican supermajorities over the entirety of his

2:10:56term. And everything for which he claims credit It actually belongs to them by way

2:11:02of accomplishment. There are a few things for which he can claim credit.

2:11:07One is shutting down the state of Kentucky harder than Gavin Newsom shut down the

2:11:13state of California, which resulted in the educational hobbling of an entire generation of Kentucky

2:11:20children who were already well behind national average standards on both reading and math.

2:11:27You could go to a liquor store or a strip club for months in Kentucky

2:11:32before you could send your child to a public school.

2:11:35Andy Beshear is responsible for that.

2:11:38He shut down the state's entire economy.

2:11:41He had an antiquated unemployment benefits system that he instructed the director of to make

2:11:49sure that his contributors and his family members were placed into the front of the

2:11:53line while regular everyday people at home got a busy signal for months on end

2:11:59and had no financial lifeline while his family and friends got valet treatment.

2:12:05When this was discovered, he scapegoated the director of the unemployment system for following his

2:12:12own instructions, a guy by the name of Muncie McNamara.

2:12:16And Mr. McNamara took his own life.

2:12:19But the most egregious reality about Andy Beshear and his father pertains to the fact

2:12:27that they were both law partners at the law firm that represented Purdue Pharma against

2:12:35the people of Kentucky and the litigation over OxyContin while they were law partners there.

2:12:41Andy Beshear and his daddy drew law partner paychecks off Purdue Pharma client bills while

2:12:50they were there. And the people of Kentucky should have received a billion dollars but

2:12:55instead received a measly $24 million payout from Purdue Pharma because Andy and his daddy's

2:13:03law firm malpracticed that case.

2:13:06The public record will establish that as part of the Purdue Pharma settlement, 17 million

2:13:13documents were destroyed, the case was put under seal, and as a condition of the

2:13:19settlement, their law firm was allowed to cure their malpractice of the case which resulted

2:13:24in a $24 million settlement within days of Andy Beshear becoming the attorney general.

2:13:31That's right, the attorney general.

2:13:32I said I've been a Republican all my life, and I have.

2:13:36My family's been a Republican going back to the Civil War.

2:13:40I don't care if it's Gavin Newsom, Kamala Harris, Pete Buttigieg, that Illinois governor, Governor

2:13:48Pritzker, any national Democrat who needs my time, my effort, whatever I can offer by

2:13:59way of volunteer resources to make sure that Andy Beshear never sniffs the sewer grate

2:14:05of the White House, they've got it.

2:14:07In this Politico article, Andy talks about, in much the same way as other performative

2:14:15public piety purveyors, that his life is guided by the golden rule and the good

2:14:22Samaritan. He likes to wear his Sunday school and deacon affiliations on his sleeve, as

2:14:27so many other performative public piety figures do.

2:14:31If he were actually going to preach the part of the Bible that he has

2:14:36lived, he would talk more about Judas and the 40 pieces of silver than he

2:14:41would any golden rule and the good Samaritan.

2:14:44And I just want to make sure that the people of home and the people

2:14:48of America know who this man is as the national media takes up Kentucky media's

2:14:54grotesque narrative about his decency and tries to lie him into the White House.

2:15:00Thank you for letting me say that.

2:15:01It's been a long time coming.

2:15:03I understand. Anything else before we wrap this up?

2:15:08You think we covered it all?

2:15:10I think we hit it good.

2:15:11Thank you, Joe. You have been a really big supporter of this effort.

2:15:16Well, I think it's just incredible.

2:15:18I mean, I can't believe it's happening.

2:15:21You know, I'd always kind of given up hope that people would wake up to

2:15:24the powerful potential that a lot of these compounds have to change people's lives.

2:15:31Well, I'm sure there were some teachers of mine back in the 1950s that the

2:15:39idea that that little burr -headed kid that is, you know, obviously not paying a

2:15:46lot of attention could somehow or another end up being the governor of the great

2:15:51state of Texas. And there's probably a long, long list of those, as a matter

2:15:57of fact. And I'm sure there's some people over the course of the last 15

2:16:02years, as I matriculated up through the political process, that said, you know, the idea

2:16:09that this guy is going to be standing up, putting his reputation on the line

2:16:14for something like psychedelics, that ain't going to happen.

2:16:18But it goes back to your point about be curious, be courageous, and make a

2:16:24difference. All right. And you're doing it, Joe Rogan.

2:16:26Thank you, man. Thank you.

2:16:28Thank you, too, Brian. Thank you.

2:16:30And do you mind if I share one last thing?

2:16:33Sure. And because it is the 250th anniversary of the country, this comes from the

2:16:39heart. You know, the Bicentennial children have had the blessing of being the grandchildren of

2:16:46that greatest generation that overcame the Great Depression, defeated Nazism, killed Jim Crow, and crushed

2:16:53totalitarian communism. That greatest generation lived, suffered, bled, and died to leave us the shining

2:17:01city on the hill. Over the past 50 years, the Bicentennial children, or those who

2:17:08are known as Generation X, have experienced the mass extinction of family and community.

2:17:15We are the first generational cohort of mass refugees from obliterated biological families who had

2:17:21to seek and build new families of choice based on the salvation bond of unconditional

2:17:27affection, rejecting only the superficial socialized separatism of the skin suits into which we have

2:17:34been born. Over the past 30 years, we have watched truth, justice, and the American

2:17:43way be overrun by institutional deceit, white -collar criminality, and the thieving tyrant's will, an

2:17:52odious alignment of official depravity which has produced the opioid epidemic, the gravest engineered humanitarian

2:18:01catastrophe to play out within our borders since the end of the 19th century, and

2:18:05an epidemic which has disfigured this country, the 2008 financial crisis which forcibly dispossessed millions

2:18:14of us from the American dream, including 52 percent of African -American homeowners and sent

2:18:20us the bill for the cost of our dispossession, a bill that everyone under the

2:18:25age of 40 continues to pay through their lack of economic mobility.

2:18:30And finally, and most deplorably, 25 years of unremittent warfare which has taken exponentially more

2:18:36service member lives here at home by suicide than had been lost at battlefields abroad.

2:18:41Over the last 10 years, 1 .5 million Americans have died from drug overdose, alcohol

2:18:49-related disease, and suicide, a figure that exceeds the total number of war casualties going

2:18:56all the way back to 1776.

2:18:59We've got 102 counties with life expectancies less than that of North Korea.

2:19:0418 percent of respondents to a recent Pew Research Center poll said that they believe

2:19:09the federal government has the capacity to do the right thing, a figure that hasn't

2:19:14been above 30 percent since 2007.

2:19:17Eighty percent of respondents to an October 2025 Wall Street Journal poll have said that

2:19:23the American dream is dead.

2:19:26Power has answered these unconscionable realities with a maelstrom of bureaucratic absurdity, impudent incompetence, and

2:19:36predatory corruption, all with the blessing of the law which has used its power to

2:19:41bind, torture, and kill the truth.

2:19:45In the decades prior to July 14, 1789, the French government had ruthlessly imposed its

2:19:57burdens, abusively imposed its costs, and ravenously consumed the future of its people.

2:20:06The arrogance of the aristocracy ultimately answered to the desperate determination of the peasantry and

2:20:16its guillotine blade. We are here to pursue one of the greatest humanitarian missions ever

2:20:24undertaken to serve and exalt the primacy of the human soul.

2:20:29As we sit here right now, there are millions of Americans who have no sense

2:20:35of greater purpose or of even why they are alive, who mourn to see the

2:20:40sunrise when it comes up and through their windows.

2:20:43And what they need to know is that they are indeed divine.

2:20:48There's only one thing that is known to produce iron, and that's the supernova of

2:20:53a star. The iron in our blood originated in a supernova eons ago.

2:21:00Every human being has stardust running through their blood.

2:21:05And the movement that Governor Perry and I are leading is one that aims to

2:21:10recognize the reality of that human divinity.

2:21:14We are desperate, and we are determined, and we will crawl the last mile to

2:21:21deliver good tidings unto the meek, to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to

2:21:29the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound.

2:21:34Glory, glory, hallelujah. The truth is marching on.

2:21:38And thank you, sir, for letting us proclaim it right here on your platform, the

2:21:42Walter Cronkite of our age.

2:21:44That was a beautiful way to end it.

2:21:45Thank you. Thank you, gentlemen.

2:21:47Bye, everybody. We'll see you next time.

#2477 - Rick Perry & W. Bryan Hubbard