Hour 2 - KY Sen. Rand Paul
3/18/202638 mincomplete
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0:33T's and C's apply. Welcome back in.
0:36Hour number two. Clay Travis, Buck Sexton's show.
0:38Wednesday edition of the program.
0:40Senator Rand Paul will join us on the bottom of the program here at the
0:45bottom of the hour. About 1 .35 on the East Coast.
0:49And we may have some fireworks coming out of that.
0:52We have got a bunch of different storylines that are worth paying attention to.
0:59But, Buck, I wanted to start.
1:01There seems to be... I know we haven't talked much about Iran lately, but meaning
1:07in the first hour. We've talked a lot about Iran over the past couple of
1:13weeks. The degree to which Israel has infiltrated the top echelon of the Iranian leadership.
1:25They took out another couple of guys overnight.
1:27Not a good time to be in Iranian leadership.
1:31And, Buck, did you see this story?
1:34I read this. It was the New York Times.
1:37That top Mossad agents are now calling Iranian leaders and saying, we know who you
1:46are. We know where you are.
1:48And we will kill you if you do not immediately stop supporting this government.
1:56And they are now able to...
2:00I mean, can you imagine what that's like with everything going on?
2:04To have your phone ring, pick it up, and it's a Mossad agent.
2:08And he's saying, hey, just want you to know, we know exactly where you are.
2:12And we are willing and able to take you out.
2:16And I saw, and I was reading in the Wall Street Journal this, and I
2:19thought you would appreciate this.
2:20The degree to which Israel is able to now target individuals, one of the guys
2:27was killed sleeping in a tent in a park where he thought he could not
2:36be found. And they were able to hear...
2:39Sorry, I said it's the New York Times.
2:40Here is the quote from the Wall Street Journal, front page story.
2:44The journal reviewed the contents of one call between a senior Iranian police commander and
2:50an agent of the Mossad.
2:53Can you hear me? A Mossad agent can be heard speaking in Farsi.
2:57We know everything about you.
2:59You are on our blacklist, and we have all the information about you.
3:03Okay, the commander said in the recording.
3:06I called to warn you in advance that you should stand with your people's side.
3:11And if you do, you will...
3:13And if you will not do that, your destiny will be as your leader.
3:17Do you hear me? And then the man responds, brother, I swear on the Koran,
3:22I'm not your enemy. I'm a dead man already.
3:25Just please come help us.
3:29I'm curious what you think, just from an operational standpoint, that Mossad would be so
3:35embedded that they would be able to be calling individuals and letting them know, you're
3:41next on our list. Impactful, non -impactful, how do you see this going?
3:46Well, it shows how much they've mapped out the human terrain even inside of Iran
3:52and have an understanding of command and control and the ability to directly...
3:56It's one thing to know who's in charge.
3:58It's another thing to say, oh, you're in charge?
4:01Boop, not anymore. Who's up next?
4:03Yes. That's a whole other level of capability in a battlefield situation.
4:10And I think, will this be...
4:14I don't know. I mean, this is where you get into, do we think that
4:18this will be enough to start to push things toward a new future for the
4:23Iranian people? Clay, I just...
4:25I've seen this play out in...
4:28No, you could say, well, look what happened in Egypt with the Arab Spring, although
4:32that didn't really turn out the way everybody was hoping in some ways.
4:36It's possible that this starts to have a domino effect.
4:41It's hard. It's an uphill battle.
4:42You still have a lot of people that are even lower.
4:45Like, here's the problem. How far down the chain of command do you have ideological
4:52hardliners who don't want an end to the conflict with Israel?
4:58I mean, they obviously don't want to get bombed continuously, but they want to continue
5:01the Islamic revolution that Khomeini began.
5:06How many... How deep does it go?
5:09I don't think anybody has a really good answer to that.
5:11Remember, this is a country that we haven't had the kind of day -to -day
5:16interaction and news coverage with.
5:18You have in a lot of other places.
5:19Our insights into Iran are always limited by the fact that it's a totalitarian...
5:24parts of the limit that we試ير have found uh malocracy a dictatorship of sorts and
5:29we don't have open access to what's going on and we haven't for what's the
5:34math 40 something years so that's where it is right now i think um with
5:40the israelis a lot of this is also they know people that were involved in
5:44very bad stuff against israel they they know who was making sure that hezbollah was
5:51trying to kidnap or kill israelis they know who was working with hamas i mean
5:56they have a pretty good sense of all of that and it's score settling time
5:59for a lot of them after a long time here's the other part of that
6:03article that i wanted to hit you with because i did think it was interesting
6:06um israel they say this is according to the wall street journal got a tip
6:10from ordinary iranians they're saying i don't know if this is just disinformation or designed
6:15to make people even more uh nervous that iranians are now calling in location of
6:21people in the country to get taken out but the guy's name uh solamiani solamani
6:27um i don't know if he's related to the guy that we took out before
6:30uh they say i'm reading was holing up with his deputies in a tent in
6:36a wooded area in tehran um and they've now taken out so many of the
6:42physical locations that the guys have gotten nervous about being in any sort of intelligence
6:48uh building right because there's been so many of these taken out guys hiding out
6:53in a tent in a park in iran with his uh subordinates they took them
6:57all out uh so he thought hey maybe i can just hide out in this
7:02tent presumably he's trying to avoid all detection and they were still able to take
7:09him out um and every morning when i wake up i check the news and
7:13it feels like iran has had another leader taken out to your point i think
7:18the challenge is how far down do you have to go and how long does
7:22it take right because if let's say you have to knock out the first 300
7:26people on the on the list of commandos before you get to people who want
7:31to negotiate i think the iranian perspective is america in particular is going to run
7:37out of interest in continuing this and so you just kind of have to hold
7:42on until the actual attacks end up ending right that's the i would imagine that's
7:48the best strategy of the iranians right now they're really hoping i mean the the
7:52irgc and and what's there of the iranian regime still in place to whatever degree
7:59that's the case uh they're just hoping that domestic political pressure helps bring a faster
8:07end to this as in trump doesn't want to burn too much political capital and
8:11so he'll say all right we've done we've done enough we've showed them who's boss
8:15so to speak uh what is oil now clay it just spiked up right we
8:19and the israelis hit a gas field in iran now yeah i think that's their
8:24entire goal at this point is to make the price of oil and gas go
8:28up high enough that the united states decides to pull back um i'm hitting it
8:32right now 97 a barrel it got up to 120 um the crude oil futures
8:39that i'm looking at right now is up about a dollar 50 today at 97
8:43it spiked to 120 last week uh and uh and so far it's around 97
8:49it was a couple hours ago it was 110 dollars so according to the journal
8:53right now i'm looking at so i mean it definitely has had a bit of
8:56a run -up uh wow can you imagine being uh on an oil trading desk
9:01right now you know oil futures and everything that's no every time there's a new
9:04tweet every time there's a new tweet you're reacting to try to figure out what
9:08the legitimacy of it is um and uh and and all of uh all of
9:14those angles all right we told you we would play this so i wanted to
9:16update you on iran that is the latest uh that is going on there uh
9:20let me hit you with uh this this was senator mark wayne mullen on this
9:25program let me make sure i want to get the the date right the team
9:28uh went and tracked it back down so we're gonna have can i throw something
9:32out there while you're looking this up i just want everyone to know we're as
9:35soon as senator mullen is through his confirmation hearing hopefully at that point he'll be
9:38dhs uh secretary or we believe he'll be dhs secretary we'll invite him on the
9:43program want to hear about what his priorities will be and he's welcome to also
9:47respond to this uh senator rand paul situation because we're having senator rand paul on
9:52today so we're you know this is a this is a big public fight between
9:55two republicans they both should be able to have their say i think senator rand
9:59paul is going to be a no vote we'll ask him this i think he's
10:02going to be a no vote on uh on mark wayne mullen i don't remember
10:05senator paul taking shots at mark wayne mullen on this program doesn't mean it didn't
10:11happen uh but but this is for sure mark wayne mullen this is back the
10:16team pulled this november 17th 2025 i remember this conversation vaguely i'm actually interested to
10:24hear it as well mark wayne mullen taking shots at uh senator rand paul over
10:30drug boat strikes uh again few months ago three four months ago uh cut 30
10:36i'm gonna just pivot back for a second to the drug boat strikes 21 so
10:42far uh over 80 people killed senator rand paul your republican colleague is very against
10:48these uh he has recently said things like colin rand as a republican My Republican
10:52colleague is pretty loose -lipped.
10:55I mean, he is a Republican colleague.
10:58I mean, we can talk about how you feel about that.
11:01But he definitely is a Republican senator.
11:03So what do you think about the concerns about legality when it comes to these
11:08strikes? That's well within his constitutional authority to do so.
11:13And so for Rand Paul to quote that, what I always say is say, okay,
11:17give me in the Constitution where it's not in his authority to do that.
11:20Pull out the part that Rand Paul is talking about.
11:23But this is the same Rand Paul that doesn't vote with Republicans to open government.
11:28He just recently was trying to support his plan to enhance THC levels for consumption
11:37in drinks because he thought it was good for Kentucky's, not joking, good for Kentucky's
11:43industry, for hemp industry. This is the same Rand Paul that is constantly looking for
11:49an opportunity to run against the president of the United States.
11:52And so he's looking for an opportunity anytime he can to distance himself.
11:57I would be a lot better off if Rand Paul just called himself what he
12:00is. He's a libertarian. I'm perfectly okay with that.
12:04But he can't get elected as a libertarian in Kentucky, so he decides to run
12:08as a Republican. You know, I have more respect for Thomas Massey than I do
12:13Rand Paul because at least Thomas Massey owns who he is.
12:17Rand Paul is just whoever he feels like to be that day.
12:22So this is, again, Buck, I think you nailed it.
12:25This is not a political disagreement at this point.
12:28It's personal. So there have been fireworks from the DHS confirmation hearings.
12:33Rand Paul, we played you some cuts from that.
12:35And Senator Paul will be with us at the bottom of the hour, and we'll
12:38hear from him what he wants to say, how he wants to respond.
12:44And all of you guys can judge that as well.
12:48We're just talking about the situation that is going on right now in the Middle
12:53East, in Israel, in Iran, everywhere.
12:55And our friends at the International Fellowship of Christians and Jews make a tremendous difference
12:59when it comes to helping people in their time of need, whether it's building new
13:03bomb shelters, whether it is setting up food banks, whether it is even putting a
13:10hospital in a parking garage beneath the hospital itself to protect everyone, all of the
13:18patients, from the dangers of missiles that might arrive.
13:22All of these things are tremendously important.
13:25They have to do with just protecting the innocent, in particular, all over Israel.
13:31And it's what the International Fellowship of Christians and Jews does.
13:34We would like for you to join us as well.
13:37I've seen the work that these individuals do.
13:39It is fantastic. It is phenomenal.
13:42It is truly life -changing for so many people there.
13:46And if you have the opportunity, we would love for you to join us and
13:49help support the IFCJ at ifcj .org.
13:54I know the organization. I know the work that they're doing.
13:57888 -488 -IFCJ. That is ifcj .org.
14:03One more time, ifcj .org.
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14:44T's and C's apply. Welcome back in to Clay and Buck.
14:47We're supposed to have Senator Rand Paul joining us in a few moments.
14:50And I think a lot of you are going to want to hear it because
14:53things got very testy. Let's be honest.
14:55Things got a bit personal.
14:56Up on Capitol Hill in the hearing for DHS Secretary nominee, Senator Mark Wayne Mullen.
15:04So, we will hear from the other senator, Senator Paul, about where he stands on
15:09all this. I also think, depends on how much time we have, we can talk
15:12to him a bit about the Save America Act, which I know a lot of
15:15you have questions or thoughts on, I should say, more thoughts than questions.
15:19Like, why the heck aren't they passing this?
15:22Clay and I are not senators, so we can't vote for it, but it doesn't
15:26look like it's going to happen for a whole range of reasons we've discussed on
15:30the show. So, let's get to some of your thoughts here.
15:33Let's start with B, Kenneth from Melbourne, Florida.
15:38Hit B. One question I'd like to ask Rand Paul is, why did he decide
15:43to go soft on this guy after he about killed him?
15:47I mean, quickly, not pressing charges, never heard anything about him anymore.
15:53You know, we're all supporting you, Rand Paul.
15:57And we want to see this guy prosecuted for assault, and you weren't having it.
16:02Why? I'll have to look up.
16:06I thought that there was a prosecution, and the guy got punished.
16:10Yeah, he was charged by authorities and convicted for the 2017 attack.
16:15Rand didn't press charges himself, but he expressed satisfaction with the felony conviction.
16:19And he said, he said, he said, he said, he said, he said, he said,
16:19he said, he said, he said, he said, he said, he said, he said, he
16:19said, he said, he said, he said, he said, he said, he said, he said,
16:19he said, he said, he said, he said, he said, he said, he said, he
16:19said, he said, he said, he said, he said, he said, he said, he said,
16:19he said, he said, he said, he said, he said, he said, he said, he
16:20said, he said, he said, he said, he said, he said, he said, he said,
16:20he said, he said, he said, he said, he said, he said, he said, he
16:20said, he said, he said, he said, he said, he said, he said, he said,
16:20he said, he said, he said, he said, he said, he said, he and jail
16:20time that the individual served, but he only served 30 days in jail.
16:25So, I mean, you know, the guy was hit with a felony and went to
16:31prison. He had to pay Rand Paul $580 ,000 in damages.
16:35I don't think it's a fair line of criticism to say Rand Paul didn't, you
16:41know, go after him, charge him with a felony, and he had to pay.
16:45What else is supposed to happen?
16:46Yeah, I agree. I think he should have got more time in prison, personally.
16:49Definitely, for an assault like that.
16:51I agree. I think, you know, look, it's funny, actually, Clay, I was even texting
16:54with a friend of mine yesterday who's a long -time violent felony prosecutor in New
16:58York, district attorney's office there.
17:00I was asking him about something that happened where a guy punched a guy.
17:03We didn't talk about this story, but someone punched a 55 -year -old, fell and
17:08died, hit his head. And in these things, they get very into the specific facts,
17:15like, was it completely unprovoked?
17:19Did they square off? Did the guy raise his hands?
17:21Did the other guy raise his hands?
17:23Was it a sucker punch?
17:25Did he, you know, is it a senior citizen?
17:28All these things come into the equation because people, a lot of people who have
17:32never been involved in physical violence don't realize, first of all, how ugly it gets
17:38quickly, and also how it can escalate into something very dangerous, even more so than
17:44either party wants it to.
17:46I had a friend who was in college, and someone that he knew got punched
17:50on stairs, fell back, hit his head, slipped into a coma, and died.
17:53Oh. So that stuff can happen.
17:54When I was in college, a kid in Georgetown got into a fight.
17:58Georgetown, one kid punched the other when he fell, he hit his head, and he
18:02died. It was a huge story when I was an undergrad.
18:06You know, there's a, when you're a lawyer, a young lawyer, you study a case.
18:11It's basically like the thin -skulled plaintiff case.
18:15And for those of you out there that probably have not heard of this case,
18:18one of the things that they examine is to what extent are you liable when
18:23someone has a unique physical condition, which you didn't know about.
18:27This thin -skulled plaintiff, my recollection, died because of what should not have been a
18:34death blow. But to the point you're making, Buck, when you strike someone, you don't
18:39really know what the overall outcome is going to be, and the outcome can be
18:44deadly even for things you don't think are particularly deadly in nature.
18:48Yeah. And Rand Paul almost died from that attack on him, and that is established
18:52by the medical records. So these are, you know, this is, these are the facts
18:56of that case. But he did bring it so, or rather they did bring felony
19:00charges, and the person was convicted.
19:02We'll talk to, assuming he has time for us here, because obviously a lot going
19:06on Capitol Hill, we're supposed to talk to Senator Paul coming up, and we'll get
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20:02Welcome back in, Clay Travis, Buck Sexton Show.
20:06Appreciate all of you hanging out with us across the country.
20:08We are joined now by Senator Rand Paul of Kentucky.
20:12And, Senator, you've made quite a bit of news earlier today in the DHS hearings
20:18of Senator Mark Wayne Mullen.
20:20And I guess we just can start off here with a question.
20:24I don't know that you've officially said one way or the other.
20:28Based on the questions, it doesn't sound like you're going to be voting for him
20:32to be head of DHS.
20:34And is that true? And if so, why will you be voting against him?
20:39You know, I guess I'm concerned about anger issues.
20:43Someone leading ICE and Border Patrol issues that basically advocated and celebrated the violence that
20:49was committed about me. I was attacked from behind several years ago, six ribs broken,
20:55three of them separated completely, damaged my lung, multiple pneumonias, had part of my lung
21:00removed nearly a year, year and a half later.
21:03And I guess I don't think that's funny.
21:05I also don't think that that's something to be celebrated.
21:08And I wonder if someone thinks that that is to be applauded, should they really
21:13be in charge of ICE and CBP, who I think are going to need a
21:16better role model? Also, he has a history of brawling.
21:19I mean, he got up to him at a committee hearing, threatened someone who was
21:23testifying, said he would jump over the table and follow up interviews.
21:27He said, yeah, people just deserve to be sometimes be punched in the mouth.
21:30He said, well, yeah, there's historical precedent for this.
21:33You know, we had dueling and we've had canings.
21:36And so I asked him that today and he said, oh, yeah, we've had dueling.
21:39And I said, well, you realize it was illegal 170 years ago.
21:43It's certainly illegal now, but it was illegal even back then and frowned upon.
21:47and people actually had to travel either to other states or countries to do dueling
21:52because we disapproved of it even 170 years ago.
21:56But the fact that he would still think that we should settle our political differences
22:00through violence, I think makes him really unfit to hold any kind of position like
22:05this. So I will vote against him.
22:07Senator Paul, just to be clear, because we played some of the back -and -forth
22:11audio, Senator Mullen has never apologized for what he said.
22:17Is that correct? That has never happened?
22:19He called me and wanted to have a discussion, and he said, well, he said
22:24what he said today. I hope we can decide our political differences.
22:27Well, our political differences are, you know, we disagree on funding refugee welfare.
22:32I'm against giving any more money for refugee welfare.
22:34I would end the programs.
22:35He's for it. That's a political difference.
22:37But if I say that I wish harm on his family or I wish harm
22:41on him, that's not a political difference.
22:43That's an advocation for violence.
22:45And, frankly, I've been on the receiving end of violence, and I just don't think
22:49it's good for our country.
22:50And it's not a good example for somebody who leads law enforcement where there have
22:54been some questions about the use of force.
22:56And so, no, he's never apologized.
22:59He was given a chance today.
23:00I think a normal person would have taken that chance and apologized.
23:04Instead, he continued to have this bizarre rant that somehow when he was in the
23:10House of Representatives, he told this to my face because he's, you know, such a
23:13macho guy. I don't think I ever met the guy when he was in the
23:16House. I don't remember ever meeting with him, and I certainly would remember if someone
23:19walked up to me and told me that I deserved to be bushwhacked, you know,
23:23in my yard. So, no, I'd never met him before he got to the Senate,
23:27and he's never said it to my face.
23:29But it's interesting what he took umbrage with.
23:31He took umbrage with the fact that I called him a liar, but he didn't
23:35ever come out and say, oh, yeah, you know, I was angry about this vote.
23:39And, you know, in retrospect, maybe I shouldn't have, you know, thought that it was
23:43a great idea that this violence was committed against you.
23:47But it's that. It's his brawling in Senate committees.
23:50It's his referring to dueling and caning.
23:53I asked him if he knew who Charles Sumner was.
23:55I don't think he does.
23:56But Charles Sumner was caned nearly to death.
23:59He was caned until he was unconscious.
24:01And the reason that it kept going is one of Preston Book's colleagues in South
24:06Carolina came over with a gun, and he kept the other – I always wondered,
24:09you know, why did the senators not intervene?
24:11The reason they didn't intervene to help him, he was unconscious, bleeding from the mouth,
24:15bleeding from his ears. His skull being crushed by this guy with the cane, and
24:19nobody helps him. But it's because another thug, a friend of Preston Brooks, was holding
24:25a gun to the senators, keeping them at bay.
24:27So – but he brings this up as a justification.
24:30He brought it up again today.
24:32He says, well, yeah, there is dueling.
24:33And I said, well, yeah, it's been illegal for 170 years, including at the time.
24:39Even when they're dueling in the early 19th century, most time it was illegal, and
24:44most time they went to some kind of venue to escape being caught doing doing
24:47because it wasn't approved of by most people.
24:50Senator Paul, can I ask you, do you have any sense that there are any
24:53other Republicans who have serious concerns about this confirmation of the DHS secretary, or is
25:00it your sense that you stand alone among Republicans on this?
25:04Probably on the committee I will be the only one.
25:08You know, frankly, I suffered for a year or two with this, had part of
25:11my lung removed, so I do take it kind of personally.
25:14I do think, though, it's more of a generalized problem because I think his resorting
25:18to fists and his idea that people sometimes just deserve to be punched in the
25:22face, I think that kind of attitude would worry me where we, you know, this
25:27is what we had with Bovino.
25:28When Bovino was up there in Minneapolis, it was a disaster because he's marching around
25:33with a bulletproof vest, brandishing his weapons and showing how tough he is.
25:37And everybody got this sort of macho complex up there.
25:40Tom Holman, who's not a shrinking violet, went to it and said, if any agents
25:44misbehave, they'll be punished. And he started pulling people off the streets so they weren't
25:48in public confrontation every day.
25:51You really haven't seen it in the news.
25:52And that's sort of what good leadership would be.
25:55But I don't know what kind of leadership you get from a guy who advocates
25:59fighting in a, you know, in the middle of a Senate hearing.
26:03Why isn't Tom Holman the DHS secretary, by the way?
26:06I mean, that's a whole other question.
26:07Yeah, no, I mean, I think that's an interesting question.
26:09Senator Rand Paul with us right now, talking about the Mark Wayne Mullen hearing and
26:14his potential taking over the DHS.
26:17Many people in this audience, I guarantee you, Senator Paul, and I'm sure you're going
26:21to hear it from the people you represent in Kentucky, will say Democrats are wrong
26:26on so much. Why fight internally here over who the president wants as DHS secretary?
26:34How would you respond to that question or that criticism?
26:38Well, you know, I've supported virtually all the nominees.
26:41Kristi Noem came forward. I did hers in record time.
26:44Even though Mullen, I don't think, don't like and don't think he's fit.
26:48And really, I think he's a despicable person.
26:51But I've gotten this nominee done quicker than any other nominee's ever gotten it.
26:57So I'm giving him fair treatment in the sense that he got a hearing in
27:00less than two weeks. He's going to get the vote tomorrow.
27:03And in all likelihood, he'll be approved.
27:05But the thing is, is, you know, if this were you, I mean, do you
27:10have, you know, would it be your conclusion to say, well, yeah, he did.
27:15But I think it's, I mean, I think it's a great point.
27:15The assault, I mean, it was justified, but I'll just kind of let that go
27:18and not say anything about it.
27:20Well, I don't think there are many people that would let it go.
27:23I'm kind of actually surprised that more people don't see the glorification of violence as
27:29a real danger to having someone lead ICE, who really thinks resorting to fists is
27:33the way we give this real, you know, this is a bad way to do
27:36it. We used to do it the right way with dueling and caning.
27:40And, you know, when I first read the story of Charles Sumner, I was horrified
27:44by it. I never crossed my mind that these were the good old days, these
27:48were the days when men were men, and they'd, you know, crush each other's skull
27:52with sticks. I don't know, that never would have crossed my mind, but that apparently
27:57is his point of view.
27:59And even when confronted with it, both privately and in public, he refuses to apologize,
28:04doesn't back down, and says basically, yeah, it's completely understandable that I was attacked from
28:10behind, you know, six ribs broken, lung damaged, multiple pneumonias, part of my lung removed.
28:17I don't know. I don't get that.
28:18And I guess I'm not willing just to say, oh, let's let bygones be bygones.
28:22You know, we're all adults here.
28:24Well, if you want to let bygones be bygones, you might start with an apology
28:27for what he said. What happened to your attacker?
28:30We had a couple people asking us, and Buck and I did a quick research.
28:35We're live on the air.
28:36I'm sure you know. Was he severely punished to what you thought he should have
28:42been that level, or what was the result of that case?
28:46Initially, all the judges in Kentucky recused themselves, which created a problem because then they
28:51have to look for a judge.
28:52They found one in Detroit who came down and prejudged the case and gave the
28:58guy 30 days. The government appealed it and went to the Sixth Circuit.
29:02And this doesn't happen very often, appealing a criminal ruling of a judge because it
29:07was outside the sentencing parameters and didn't meet the minimum.
29:11And they came back and gave him another 10 months.
29:13So he served about a year.
29:15He lost a civil suit.
29:17He's a convicted felon. Hopefully is not voting anywhere in the country anymore.
29:23And hopefully has received some punishment for this.
29:26But, you know, it was misreported from the very beginning.
29:30And everybody said, oh, yeah, it's just a dispute between them.
29:32I'd never talked to the guy.
29:34I mean, I talked to him maybe 10 or 15 years before.
29:36We're gone a lot. Our kids used to carpool.
29:38But there was no personal animus that I knew of between the guy other than
29:43that I learned that he was a hater of Donald Trump and a hater of
29:46me politically when we looked at his online presence.
29:49But it wasn't like we'd ever had words to really, I don't know, those who
29:53think it's either funny or should be justified, I think, are sick people, frankly.
29:59Senator Rand Paul with us now.
30:01And, Senator, if I could, I mean, I think we've covered in pretty good detail
30:04here what happened today in your exchange with Mark Wayne Mullen.
30:07We are in the midst of what we have been telling everybody is a war,
30:12and thousands of people are dying, and it is a big deal.
30:15I know there's been a little back and forth on what we should call this,
30:19and it's, you know, there seems to be a little bit of a minimization feeling
30:23around it in some quarters.
30:25My sense is, and I'm speaking for myself, and Clay can weigh in with his
30:29sense, this is just going to end sometime in the next couple of weeks, and
30:33we're going to say mission accomplished with having destroyed the Iranian military.
30:37What do you make of all of this?
30:39I mean, I know you're not for it, but what's the goal here as you
30:43see it, and what are the lessons that we're learning as we go?
30:47You know, I think the sooner it's over, the better.
30:50War really isn't good for, you know, us as a people, not good for those
30:54who die. And really, it needs to be the last resort, not the first resort.
30:59I think this war was a war of choice, and I didn't agree with the
31:04choice. Now, whether they call it a war or not sounds legalistic, but it's a
31:09way of getting around the Constitution.
31:10The Constitution says that Congress initiates war or declares war.
31:15Now, the President's legal counsel, the Office of Legal Counsel, argues that we'll tell you
31:20when it's a war, but we have to wait a while, and we'll add up
31:23the casualties. We have to know the duration, the extent, and the scope of the
31:28war to tell whether it's a war or not.
31:30And I guess the problem with that kind of argument is that if Congress is
31:34supposed to initiate or declare war, but you can't tell whether it's really a war
31:38until a number of dead, you know, it would be sort of Congress coming after
31:44the fact and then declaring war after the war is over.
31:46You know, with the Iraq war, we declared war in advance.
31:49We didn't know how many would die, but we ended up, I think, losing about
31:524 ,400 soldiers and maybe 10 or 20 ,000 significantly wounded.
31:58But we did actually authorize it.
32:00You know, I had some complaints with George W.
32:02Bush, but he came to Congress, made the case, and they authorized it.
32:06And same thing after 9 -11.
32:08And I would have voted for the 9 -11, you know, the response after 9
32:11-11 because we were attacked.
32:13That's when we really, you know, should have a war.
32:16But I don't think we've done it in a constitutional way.
32:20I think in the end it's really – this isn't the primary reason to oppose
32:24it, but I think it's also going to be very, very damaging for the Republican
32:28ability to hold on to either House or Senate in the fall because of the
32:33economic repercussions. I think oil prices go up quickly.
32:37I think they're sticky on the way down.
32:39And as more infrastructure is damaged over there, as the people – are having more
32:44trouble getting ships through because of insurance and danger, I don't think that quickly resolves
32:49itself. So even if the war ended in a week or two, I think you
32:52could still have pricing increases that could last well into the election.
32:57Last question for you. This is a VIP email, and I'm going to read it
33:01from one of our listeners, Matt.
33:03You probably have heard versions of this quite a lot.
33:0680 % of all Americans support voter ID.
33:08I'll be extremely pissed off and deflated if the SAVE Act fails, especially if it
33:15fails due to GOP infighting.
33:17I think the country is doomed if we can't get voter ID passed.
33:22That's a VIP email from Matt, one of our listeners.
33:25What's going to happen with the SAVE Act?
33:27What should happen in your mind?
33:29You know, I'm for it.
33:30I'm a co -sponsor of it.
33:31Voted yesterday to get on it.
33:33We got on it with 51 votes.
33:35I am told by leadership there are not 51 votes to perpetually stay on it.
33:40You know, the whole idea of the talking filibuster, that there aren't 51 votes to
33:44do that. I'm also told that one of the sticking points of doing the citizenship
33:49part, that you might get 53 of us.
33:51You might even get a Democrat or two if it just did citizenship.
33:54When it adds in the mail balloting, forbidding mail or discouraging mail balloting, which I
33:59am for, I think that's really almost as important as the citizenship part, because I
34:03think people cheat through the mail -in balloting more than any other form of voting.
34:07But the problem is that you have these Western states.
34:10I mean, Utah has everybody gets a ballot in the mail.
34:13They may get multiple ballots.
34:15Arizona's the same way. And they've had Republican legislatures out there, but they haven't done
34:19anything about it because, frankly, Republicans out there like mail -in balloting.
34:24Same with Oklahoma. I mean, not Oklahoma, Alaska.
34:28And so while I am, you know, in my state, I helped, you know, get
34:32the state legislature, encourage them to pass, and almost everybody votes in person.
34:37It's like 98%. It's a felony if you lie about your reasons for needing to
34:41vote by mail. So almost everybody votes in person.
34:45We have paper ballots. We keep the paper ballots, and I think we have a
34:50pretty secure election. So we have IDs to be shown.
34:53So some states do it and some don't.
34:55There's about five Republican states that don't.
34:57So while I have voted for the national and will continue to support the national
35:00coalition, really we ought to have as a party the goal of getting the five
35:05or six Republican states that do mail -in balloting, convincing them at the state level
35:09not to do it. But I think it's because this bill has gotten so large
35:14and they've added things to it, you won't get any Democrats on it.
35:18And the only way probably to pass it right now or to convince more Republicans
35:20and some Democrats is actually to narrow the focus to maybe just the citizenship part.
35:26Senator Rand Paul, appreciate you making the time for us, sir.
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36:27News and politics, but also a little comic relief.
36:31Clay Travis and Buck Sexton.
36:34Find them on the free iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts.
36:39Welcome back in to Clay and Buck.
36:41Look, we're going to get into a little bit more about the Iran situation coming
36:46up here in a few minutes.
36:47I also would like to talk about, Clay, if we can make time for it
36:50today, the amount of money that's spent by New York City on homeless.
36:54Yeah, this is a crazy stat.
36:58And we're at the point now where some of these bureaucracies, these non -profits that
37:04are funded with taxpayer dollars, we'd be so much better off just giving $80 ,000,
37:10which is what the number is, to people who are homeless every year.
37:14Yes. But then people who are working hard for $80 ,000 would say, wait a
37:18second. Often for less than $80 ,000.
37:22Right. Yeah. I mean, people who are working hard for $50 ,000 are saying, hold
37:26on a second. You're going to give homeless addicts $80 ,000?
37:30Well, no, we're not giving homeless addicts $80 ,000.
37:32We're spending $80 ,000 per homeless addict, and they're not stopping the homelessness.
37:38What the heck is going on?
37:39So I think that's an important story to get into in New York.
37:42It's elsewhere as well. And we'll take your thoughts on the Rand Paul.
37:46Look, it's a feud. Rand Paul, Mark Wayne, Mullen.
37:48Let's call it what it is.
37:50Where do you come down on that one?
37:52Talk backs, emails, light us up.
37:53Be right back to you.
37:59This is an iHeart Podcast.
38:02Guaranteed human. We'll be right back to you.