The Manosphere Report

0:11well uh anyway thanks for coming down here man appreciate it and congratulations on that

0:17standout performance against tiafemo because that was a that was a giant wake -up call

0:24for the entirety of boxing the level that you're on was it so high that

0:30you could be in there with a world champion a world champion and make him

0:35a guy who beat yeah i mean legit guys including lomachenko yeah it was a

0:41big victory for him and you made him look like he had no business in

0:45there honestly it's just hard work dedication and um god -given ability god -given ability

0:54i think you have all that plus intelligence plus you start a real young and

1:01there's something about those dudes who start real young you grow up with that it's

1:05like in your central nervous system as you're a young child yeah i mean would

1:09you start boxing like five i started boxing at five but honestly you could say

1:14the same for tio too because he kind of started at like seven so we

1:19both was kind of similar in like experience but i just feel like with me

1:25the god -given ability of my instincts always kick in like when we fought i

1:31felt like my brain just knew how to win like it just everything was just

1:38like my instincts kicked in and everything just took over like i didn't even it

1:43felt like an out -of -body experience well you're a very tactical guy like you

1:48know there's a thing one of the things i love about watching you fight is

1:52i love watching a guy who sets traps and who avoids damage and you are

1:57one of the absolute very best ever at setting traps and avoid damage you take

2:02so few punches in your fights yeah there was that one fight where you decided

2:05recent fight we decided to stand with that dude who was that um zepeda that's

2:10right zepeda's a tough guy man he is but you fought that a different way

2:14did you do that on purpose uh it was partly on purpose and partly to

2:20get his respect because i really didn't have a choice but to get his respect

2:24because if i try to outbox him and move around the ring i probably would

2:29have made the fight harder than it had to be so i knew like i

2:32gotta like make him respect me early and that's what i kind of like started

2:37the fight hot why would it make it harder than it had to be if

2:41you boxed him because sometimes when you like a guy like if you watch today's

2:46boxing judges give the fight to mostly the guys that's coming forward so if i'd

2:52have went in there and bagging up and moving around the ring while he was

2:55more active it probably would have looked as though he's winning the fight so i

3:02had to make sure like the judges know who's winning so i kind of had

3:07to take some in order to give some in that fight there was a very

3:11unusual fight for you i saw an interview with you after that fight be like

3:15i'm not fighting like that again fuck that yeah because i know like i see

3:21like the modern day like the the old school boxers and like the punishment that

3:25they taking and you'll see them today they can't really talk as well as like

3:31like the andre wars and the floyd mayweather who can talk good and right still

3:37articulate things to their grand terrence right grandchildren to their children yeah for me personally

3:44it's like i want to make sure that i'm able to really speak well to

3:49my kids and my grandkids and all of that so taking punishment ain't for me

3:54like yeah i support that 100 and i applaud fighters like you for setting an

4:01example for young fighters coming up like defense and tactics and understanding the game is

4:08the most important thing these guys that want to put on an entertaining fight and

4:12just go in there and slug it out like man you are giving up your

4:15brain for some people who don't give a fuck about you oh my god that's

4:19the god's honest truth right there i'll be seeing a lot of fighters nowadays where

4:23they stand there like punching bags and let people hit on them and you'll see

4:28them after the fight they marked up and a few in a few years i

4:33don't think that they're gonna be able to speak as well as like somebody like

4:36me so no there's a bunch of examples of that obviously we could all see

4:39it but you know it's a complicated sport and for people that don't understand the

4:46sport and don't appreciate the sport they just see two dudes punching each other but

4:50they don't see subtle movements and you were doing this like half out jab and

4:56then popping them with it and you could tell he had no idea it was

5:00coming it was so frustrating for tia femo i was watching i was like i

5:04there was a bunch of times where i was watching i just was yelling out

5:07by myself in my house going whoa that check right hook oh it was so

5:13pretty man you you hit him with some pretty shot but it was it was

5:17just you were just tuning him up it was it was a beautiful performance man

5:20because it was everything that i love in boxing yeah skill movement understanding ring iq

5:27knowing what's happening and every time he would get fired up and try take it

5:32to you the most he could do is touch your body yeah that's all he

5:35was able to do uh honestly i for me personally i feel like i'm like

5:41the best fighter in boxing and i don't like mean this in no disrespectful way

5:46because i got a lot of fighters in boxing that i still watch to this

5:49day that i like and i'm like okay they i'm gonna steal this i'm ucyk

5:54i love ucyk i love ucyk i love beval i love them on eastern european

5:59styles but um for me like i just feel like i'm a fighter that could

6:04do it all like i can do it all like whatever needs to be done

6:08to get the job I'm done, I can do that.

6:11So some nights you might see, I might outbox people.

6:15Then some nights I might stand there and beat a guy up and beat them

6:20at their own game. So I think for me, I'm the most complete fighter in

6:24boxing. Well, that mindset is what you need, especially in a sport where you've dominated

6:28divisions. Yeah. So if you've dominated divisions and you're still looking to achieve a higher

6:33level, you can't just look at the guys that are your competitors.

6:37Yeah. Because at 135, it was so hard for you to get fights.

6:40Yeah. At 140 now, what are you going to do?

6:42You just do that to Tiafemo.

6:44It scared a lot of people.

6:46Yeah. Nobody wants to look stupid.

6:49I mean, Tiafemo's had some good fights in the past and he's lost in the

6:53past, but he's never looked out of place.

6:56Yeah. And he looked out of place in that fight.

6:58It's crazy, though, because when I seen him, when he fought in New York on

7:01the Times Square cart, I'm like, man, this dude is nice.

7:05Like, I'm sitting there, I'm like, whoa.

7:07Like, I couldn't believe, like, how good he was.

7:11But it kind of, like, just made me get up.

7:13Like, I'm like, okay, I want to see, like, what he can do with me.

7:17Right. Because the way he made Arnold Barboza look in New York was like, he

7:21just made him look like he's not on his level.

7:23Well, he wasn't on his level.

7:25But then Tiafemo's not on your level.

7:27Yeah. I mean, this is the beautiful thing about competitive sports, especially boxing, this one

7:31-on -one, which I think is the purest form of competition, boxing and MMA, is

7:36that you can show that as great as a fighter is, like, people could watch

7:40the Tiafemo fight and have no idea how good he is.

7:43Yeah, for sure. And I would say, go watch the Barboza fight.

7:45Go watch the Lomachenko fight.

7:47Go watch many of his fights.

7:48The guy was an excellent fighter.

7:50Yep. Still is an excellent fighter.

7:51Yeah. But there are levels.

7:53Yes. And the mindset that you have, I am the best fighter in the world,

7:59period, is what allows you to beat guys like that, that and the hard work.

8:05For sure. Like I said, I'm God -given, and I work super hard.

8:10And I think the biggest thing that I don't get credit for is my discipline.

8:15Like, I feel like I'm very disciplined when it comes down to making the sacrifices

8:22and making the life changes that I need to make in order to be 100

8:26% on fight night. And I feel like a lot of people don't give me.

8:30I mean, they don't know.

8:31They don't know. That's all it is.

8:32You know, I be seeing, like, fans tweet, and they be like, oh, get off

8:36Twitter or get off social media.

8:37But I'll be on social media, like, right after I just left the gym.

8:41I'm like, what's the problem?

8:42I'm like, I'm just talking my talk on social media right now.

8:46Like, let me live, like.

8:48Borough Talks, the Borough Market podcast is back.

8:50We've got a brilliant lineup for you this series.

8:53We've got Elliot Hastrudi talking all things awful at his amazing restaurant Camille.

8:58Brindisi's Monica Linton sharing her thoughts on the evolution of British cuisine.

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9:05All of this, plus chats about the future of British cheese and the unique flavors

9:09of one of Italy's lesser -known regions.

9:11That's Borough Talks, the Borough Market podcast.

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9:45Ah, Bisto. Well, people are always looking to criticize.

9:49But there's no way you can have the kind of performances that you're having.

9:52And not be locked in.

9:53And not be locked in.

9:54It's not possible, especially over 12 rounds.

9:57Yeah, for sure. Because, I mean, you know better than anybody alive that the kind

10:01of discipline that it takes to be in the kind of condition that you have

10:03to be in to fight 12 hard rounds, they put on a virtuoso performance.

10:09So it's like, dun -dun -dun.

10:10It's crazy, though. Everybody, like, y 'all love the performance because y 'all got to

10:15see it that day. But, like, for me, when I'm in the gym, it's still

10:20levels that I feel like I haven't got to show to the world.

10:24Like, I kind of only really shown, like, 70 % of, like, what I really

10:32could do. And I feel like with that performance, it was just like, okay, this

10:35is like an okay day in the gym.

10:39Like an okay day. It ain't, like, my best day in the gym.

10:42Like, I have, like, days in the gym where I'm like, ooh.

10:47I don't know how I just did that, but I'm just, like, on point.

10:50So it was a good day, though.

10:51Well, the thing is you're getting better.

10:53Yeah, for sure. You know, that's the thing.

10:55It's like those days that you have in the gym and this performance and the

10:58mindset that you have, like, it's still not saying I did it all, not saying,

11:03okay, virtuoso performance, still only 70 % of what you're capable of.

11:07Yeah. That's what takes a guy from being a very good fighter to being an

11:12all -time great. Yeah. And it's a matter of maintaining that over years and years

11:18and years that is so difficult for people.

11:20Yeah. And discipline is where that comes in.

11:23Yeah. Enthusiasm and motivation is great in the beginning.

11:26A lot of people have enthusiasm and motivation in the beginning, but it's when you've

11:30been a champ for five years, six years, you know, the grind of it all,

11:34the 12 -week training camp away from your family.

11:38People don't think about that.

11:40Yeah, that's why I'm kind of glad that I got all of the things that

11:44happened in my career where I had a little trials and tribulations happened early.

11:49So when I had my hand problem and I had, like, a fight where I

11:55didn't perform as well as I wanted to, it kind of got me prepared for,

12:00like, now. Now it's, like, I'm 100 % on top of my game.

12:04Like, you're not going to be able to, like, beat me without me being, like,

12:10fully prepared. Like, you're going to have to be a bad dude to come in

12:14the ring and beat me, like, because I just don't see it happening with none

12:18of these guys. Well, it's, like, how far you've gone, right?

12:21Like, you started off at five and been in town.

12:24focused for all these years how old are you now 20 28 28 which is

12:29prime yeah that's it like 28 to like 34 is the best year but then

12:36again you look at terrence i mean he's at an age where a lot of

12:41people say it's over and he put on the performance of his career against canelo

12:45i don't know how he do it he's like a different human being like he's

12:50so smart if i'm honest he is like the reason i'm not gonna say he

12:55the reason why i am who i am today but he brought my game from

13:00like where it was at to like a very high level and he don't even

13:05realize like he done that like me just being in the gym able to watch

13:10him and pick up on like the little things that he doing his bad days

13:13his good days his i'm seeing everything and like when he come out there on

13:19fight night how prepared and how ready how confident like honestly that dude kind of

13:25he put me into a whole different world to now to where i'm like oh

13:31i can i can beat anybody i get in there with terrence carford and if

13:35i can spar with him i can how you gonna hurt me how you gonna

13:39how how you gonna beat me like right i'm in the ring with the best

13:42fighter in the world like one of the best of all time yeah one of

13:46the best of all and one of the most versatile of all time yes because

13:50that's a guy who switches up left right there's nothing he can't do in a

13:54boxing ring nothing nothing he can't do and the way he sets people up we

13:59were talking during the podcast i did with him he did this one sneaky thing

14:03where he was throwing a straight left and then canelo would go to counter and

14:08he would hook it right off of the like on the extension canelo would lean

14:13back to counter and catch him on the chin you could see it's like oh

14:17my god that's pretty i've never seen him throw that punch until canelo though that's

14:21the crazy part being in the gym with another guy who's an all -time great

14:27pound for pound best that is so valuable and so many guys don't like that

14:33because they don't want to be the second best or they don't want to be

14:38in there with someone who's as good as them you know what i mean like

14:41iron sharpens iron for sure and for you to be a young guy whoever guys

14:46terrence is what 10 years older than you yeah have a guy who's further down

14:51the path and be able to see him and absorb all that that's better than

14:55any coach in the world yeah but it's been going on for years like it

14:59ain't like just a new thing people don't understand like when i was 19 years

15:05old i was around terrence i was at his house playing him in 2k we'd

15:12go to the gym argue like he really one of the most competitive persons i

15:16ever met in my entire life but you have to be i just never like

15:21for me i just know for a fact my game has up because of that

15:25dude yeah it has to it's also you're seeing this level that is so high

15:34in boxing like you can compare it you could go back and look at sugar

15:38ray leonard you can look at pernell whittaker you look at all these guys and

15:42you can compare terrence to the people that the pundits sit down and say all

15:46-time greats terrence is unquestionably an all -time great he might even be better than

15:50them he might be he might all due respect to the legends i agree with

15:54you he is that good he's that good i feel like there's a thing that

15:58was happening before the canelo fight where a lot of people were sort of dismissing

16:03his previous opponents and saying he never beat anybody and canelo's another level i know

16:08a lot of people bet a lot of money on canelo i was like that's

16:12not a good bet man it seemed like that's the thing in boxing to where

16:16it's like if they don't know the opponents if you're not fighting somebody that's like

16:21a bigger name right they makes it seem like the opponents is not good and

16:26that's like not true because at the end of the day it's low level opponents

16:31that don't get the type of shine that the high level opponents get but they

16:37will beat the high level opponent and are they really high level opponents at this

16:42point like i don't know so well there's hot there's high level and then there's

16:48the elite of the elite right yeah for sure there's always that there's like some

16:51guys that if they're in like i always said that about roy jones during his

16:56prime like everybody said roy jones didn't find anybody not true roy jones just made

17:01everybody look like they weren't anybody because he was that he was so elite yeah

17:07and that's kind of the problem that terrence was facing up until the canelo fight

17:12because when a guy goes up two weight classes all the way up to 68

17:17right i mean starts his career at 35 he's crazy last fight he fights at

17:2168 and then puts on a virtuoso performance virtual shutout maybe canelo won one round

17:28yeah you know i mean then everybody has to shut the fuck up yeah he

17:32shut everybody up because you had to see like he used to say that he

17:36wouldn't fight canelo like he used to be like oh canelo's too big i wouldn't

17:40fight him then like it's like out of nowhere he had a change in mind

17:44and like he just went and attacked the situation and it was a bad situation

17:49to be in like you're going to go fight somebody two weight classes higher punch

17:53hard bigger than you and you're going to go do that so um for me

17:58he just dude is amazing he's amazing and another amazing example for young fighters you

18:05know incredibly disciplined never out of shape and has all his faculties drink doesn't do

18:12anything all his faculties intact and he's leaving the game with a hundred percent no

18:18undefeated record no questions asked fought everybody there's no one lining up to fight him

18:24right now he's older and he's he did it all and he came out unscathed

18:29bye -bye that's my biggest goal it's a perfect goal my biggest goal is to

18:34leave boxing and when i leave boxing be Good enough, well, not good enough, great

18:42enough financially to where I don't ever have to get back in the boxing ring.

18:45Like, I don't want to be one of them fighters that's, like, need boxing.

18:49Like, I hate that. Like, that's my biggest pet peeve.

18:53Like, as long as I'm having fun with boxing, I want to be doing it.

18:56But once it's not fun no more, I don't want to have to, like, oh,

19:00we got this $20 million payday.

19:05I need it. And I don't want to feel that way.

19:07Like Floyd. Yeah. Like, the situation that Floyd's in right now.

19:10This is crazy. I was having a conversation with a friend of mine right now,

19:14and he's like, why is Floyd fighting again?

19:15I go, because he needs money.

19:16He goes, like, what? How?

19:19Floyd made more money than anybody ever.

19:21It's like, yeah, but he spent more money than everybody ever.

19:24Yeah, I try to stay out of that because I don't know, like, the real

19:28situation with Floyd because I'm not really in tune on it.

19:32But the only thing with Floyd that's kind of weird to me is, like, he

19:39loves boxing so much. Like, you got to actually be around him.

19:42Like, he want to be in the gym.

19:44He want to, like, so it'd be hard for me to just believe, like, okay,

19:48he's just dead broke. Like, I don't know.

19:51It's hard to believe that.

19:52Well, if he's not dead broke, he's definitely got issues.

19:58Yeah. Right? So he's got a bunch of lawsuits where he owes money.

20:01You know, Logan Paul says he owes him money.

20:03He owes money for some other things.

20:05I don't know. I'm with you.

20:06I don't know. But it's also, it's like, I like a guy like Andre Ward.

20:10I like a guy who goes out on top and, you know, they offered Andre

20:14a ton of money to come back and fight Canelo after Canelo beat Kovalev.

20:18Yeah. And he was like, you know what, I think I serve boxing better as

20:21a commentator and a spokesperson for the sport.

20:23I made plenty of money.

20:25I'm undefeated. Two -division world champion, Olympic gold medalist.

20:29Bye -bye. That's it. All faculties intact.

20:32No worries about his brain health and everything like that.

20:35That's the way to go out.

20:36Andre Ward is another dude who helped my career.

20:39Yeah? He helped my career a lot, too.

20:42He, um, if I had to, if I need something, right, let's say I need

20:48something. And then I need to figure out how to do it or what to

20:52do in a situation with weight or whatever it is when it comes to boxing.

20:57If I'm calling Andre Ward, he going to give you the best explanation.

21:01Like, out of all the guys, like, he explains things from detail.

21:05Detail, like, he going to detail in and make me really understand what I got

21:10to do. Like, um, Andre Ward is somebody who I looked up to since a

21:14kid, so he another guy.

21:15I just wasn't around him enough in a gym as I was around Bud.

21:21Right. But, like, Andre Ward was my favorite fighter as an amateur.

21:23Oh, really? Yes. Well, most people don't know that Andre Ward fought most of his

21:28career with one arm. Yeah.

21:30Which is crazy. Which is crazy.

21:32That one arm is his best arm.

21:35He's left -handed for real, for real, so.

21:37But it's still crazy. It is.

21:39It's still crazy. Think about all the guys he beat, and he beat them with

21:42a left hand. Yeah. And then finally got shoulder surgery and then had a right

21:46hand. And still, still kind of fucked up.

21:48It's not 100%. You know the misconception about his career?

21:53I feel like when he beat Kovalev, people don't realize how good Kovalev was.

22:00Oh, he was good in the day.

22:01Like, he was insanely, like, power, boxing, length.

22:07He had everything. A great jab, a great right hand.

22:10Yeah. And for Andre Ward to go beat that dude, that put the stamp on,

22:15like, his career. And got dropped.

22:17Yes. Got dropped and hurt and recovered and still won.

22:21Yeah. I mean, that was big.

22:22Yeah, Kovalev. People see Kovalev when he lost to Canelo.

22:25He was already kind of washed.

22:27Yeah, he was already washed.

22:28He's been drinking a lot.

22:30Yeah. There was a lot of, you know, a lot of these fighters, they get

22:33to, like we're saying, it's sustaining that will, that drive, that discipline, that focus.

22:39It's hard to do. Yeah.

22:40But if you go back when he had it, man, when he was in his

22:44prime and he was a world champion, he was fucking everybody up, man.

22:47He was a killer. And he was scary.

22:48Yeah, he was a killer.

22:50Scary right hand. Oof. Yeah.

22:52It was a piston. I'll go back and watch him, too.

22:54He's another guy that I'll go back and watch.

22:55Yeah. I like the way he keep his distance.

22:57He keep his distance really good.

22:59He got that Eastern European, like, those guys are really good boxers.

23:03Like, when I watch them, I'm like, okay, like, I love watching Pavard.

23:06Pavard's amazing. I love it.

23:08He's got such an amazing style.

23:10I mean, him, Usyk, Lomachenko's kind of a, that's a fight I really wish would

23:16have happened between you and him, man.

23:18Was there ever talk about that?

23:20I messed myself up. I kind of did this to myself so I understand why

23:27a lot of fighters wouldn't fight me.

23:29A lot of fighters wouldn't fight me because I sparred them.

23:33Oh. And I messed myself up.

23:35Like, when I was trying to spar him at that time, I never thought it

23:40would be a day of me and him fighting.

23:42Like, I didn't think that far down the line.

23:44I really was just thinking he was the best fighter in boxing, number one pound

23:47for pound. I want to be able to go get in the ring with him

23:51and see, like, how I can do.

23:53Like, they told me they wasn't even going to pay me for the spar.

23:55And I'm like, okay, I'm cool.

23:57I don't want to get paid.

23:58I'm just here to get in the ring with Lomachenko.

24:03But years later, yeah, the fight.

24:05How did that go? How the sparring went?

24:07Yeah. I think, see, I don't diss nobody in sparring, so I can't say that.

24:14But you don't have to diss him.

24:15I'll keep it real with the sparring.

24:17Okay. I felt like I was outboxing him, but I also knew the level he

24:24was on was, like, his conditioning.

24:26And that's when it made me like, okay, I got to be in, like, tip

24:30-top conditioning. Because the first day we sparred, we did six rounds.

24:34I felt like it was like, okay, I can outbox him.

24:38The next time we sparred, he made me do 12 straight.

24:41Really? Yeah. So he made me do 12 straight.

24:44For the first eight, I'm good.

24:46Like, I'm good for eight.

24:48But, like, the last four rounds, I want to say, he started, like, picking up

24:52the pace. Thank you. He ain't get off on me, but he got the better

24:57of the last four rounds, I would say.

25:00And you feel like it was because of fatigue a little bit.

25:02Yeah, it was for sure because of fatigue.

25:04But it wasn't like the skills.

25:06Skillfully, I felt like I was the better fighter.

25:09I felt like my range and my distance and my speed was kind of better

25:14than his. But from a standpoint of being in shape and throwing more punches, I

25:20felt like he was kind of, but he was getting ready for his fight.

25:23I was getting ready for my fight too, so.

25:26Well, that's a very valuable learning experience, right?

25:29Yeah. I mean, better to learn it then than to learn it in a fight.

25:33Yeah, but for real, it messed me up because now it's like if I'm Lemachenko

25:40and I know he was, what, 126 pounds at the time.

25:45He was a kid. Now I see him all grown up.

25:48He's bigger, stronger. And I seen what he was doing as a kid.

25:52I'd probably be like, why would I test the water with him?

25:57Like, I wouldn't really want to see that guy.

25:59That's not the guy I would want to see, so.

26:01That's funny. So you think that those sparring matches were the reason why you never

26:06got a fight with him?

26:07Yeah, for sure. I was surprised T .O.

26:11fought me, honestly. I was very surprised.

26:14Did you spar him as well?

26:15Yeah. Yeah. But when we spar, we only did three rounds.

26:18But he made it seem like he kind of got off on me.

26:23But honestly, I felt like I was the best fighter.

26:27Well, T .O.'s a very headstrong guy.

26:29Yeah. He's tough. Very tough.

26:30Very confident guy. I mean, look, when he beat Lemachenko, that was a standout performance.

26:35He had that piston jab, man.

26:37Oh, he was sharp. He was sharp in that fight.

26:39Like, a thousand times before my fight.

26:41Well, I just think he knew that Lemachenko was a ghost.

26:44He was so hard to hit.

26:45And just, he came out explosive.

26:48He looked so good in that fight.

26:49Yeah, I just think Lemachenko had a speed to, like, get his respect.

26:55Mm -hmm. Like, I feel like T .O.

26:56was kind of faster. And he knew, like, from a speed standpoint, he was going

27:00to use it to his advantage.

27:02Also, T .O. was a lot bigger.

27:03And he was dangerous. Like, he was throwing danger with every punch.

27:07Even that jab had danger behind it.

27:09It was crazy. I felt like he was strong when I was fighting him.

27:12Oh, he's strong as fuck, man.

27:14Everybody think that he wasn't, but I'm like, man, I ain't gonna lie.

27:17It was some shots, like, I would catch on a glove and I'd be like,

27:21I don't know what you doing in your training, bro.

27:25Don't kind of solid. Well, look at the size of that motherfucker.

27:28I mean, he's jacked. He looks great.

27:30He's ripped. He's ripped. Yeah.

27:31He's just, but, you know, he's not done.

27:34And a fight like that with you is a wake -up call for a guy

27:37like him, too. It's like, man, I gotta tighten some shit.

27:41It's 50 -50, though. It's 50 -50, because sometimes they can play with your mental.

27:44So some guys don't be the same after getting embarrassed in front of the world

27:48like that. Well, he's come back before, like the Kombosis fight.

27:53Kombosis dropped him early, and that was a crazy upset.

27:57Yeah, but it was different, because in this instance, he got really embarrassed with Kombosis.

28:02It was like, it was a 50 -50.

28:05He felt like he won the fight.

28:07He left feeling that way.

28:09But getting dropped by Kombosis, nobody saw that coming.

28:11Nah, I didn't see that coming, either.

28:13I ain't gonna lie. For sure.

28:14I think it was like second round, too, right?

28:16It was the first round, but T .O.

28:17was fighting dumb. I never seen T .O.

28:19even fight like that, either.

28:20He went in there, like, just trying to knock him out from the first round.

28:24I think after the Lomachenko fight, he felt like, this dude is not on my

28:28level. I'm the best fighter in the world.

28:29You know, that can fuck with your head, too.

28:31Overconfidence can fuck with your head.

28:33Yeah. I be trying to, like, stay away from that, like, because I'm very, like,

28:40confident in myself. So I be scared of being too confident.

28:44So I be trying to, like, make guys bigger in my brain.

28:49Like, oh, this guy, he's the truth.

28:51That's smart. Yeah, I got to.

28:53Like, I don't have no choice because I'm very confident.

28:56We've all seen fighters that go in unprepared and think that a fighter is not

29:00on their level. And then that guy puts a...

29:02Knock him out. Buster Douglas and Mike Tyson.

29:04Perfect example. 42 to 1 underdog.

29:08And it was a perfect storm because Buster's mama just died.

29:12Mama, yes, yes. And Buster was always one of those guys that was known to

29:16be super talented in the gym.

29:18Super talented, but not dedicated.

29:21Just not driven. Just didn't make the most of his talent.

29:24But for that one fight, he was like, I'm fighting Mike Tyson.

29:28I'm not scared of him.

29:28My mom is dead. I'm putting in the fucking work.

29:32And he came out throwing that jab with the hook off the jab.

29:35Pop, whap! Pop, whap! And it was a totally different Buster Douglas.

29:39Like, the best Buster Douglas we've ever seen, ever.

29:43Yeah. That final combination when he knocked Mike Tyson out.

29:45Dude, I didn't even watch that fight live.

29:48A friend of mine told me about it.

29:50I was like, are you fucking serious?

29:52He told me at the gas station.

29:54He's like, Buster Douglas knocked out Mike Tyson.

29:56I was like, what the fuck are you talking about?

29:58And then I went home and watched it.

30:00And even while I knew that Buster Douglas had won, I expected Mike Tyson to

30:06get up and kill him.

30:07I was like, I can't believe this is happening.

30:09Yeah, for sure. That's how much of an upset that was.

30:12Yeah, that was definitely one of the biggest upset.

30:14I think, I don't know because I wasn't during that time.

30:18But from what I've seen, it just looked like Mike didn't expect him to be

30:23that good. Like, it was a shocker.

30:25I think it was a shocker for everybody.

30:27Yeah. Well, that's... But that's boxing.

30:30That's what could happen in the sport.

30:31I done seen that happen plenty of times.

30:33And honestly, it be some guys that I see in a gym that I'm like,

30:38bro, if you do that stuff on fight night, bro, you'll probably be champion of

30:44the world. I guess a lot of gym fighters who really got talent, but when

30:49the bright lights come on, a lot of fighters be kind of different.

30:52And what do you think that is?

30:55I think it's pressure. I think it's nerves.

30:57I think it's like, it's a lot.

31:00It's a lot. Because I know I felt it.

31:02Like, I felt it for my fight with T .O.

31:04I felt pressure. I felt all of that kind of stuff.

31:07But... I'm too tough. Like, I know my mental ain't gone.

31:12It's me or that person at the end of the day.

31:15My life or your life, man.

31:16I'm going to choose my life when it comes down to it, so.

31:20I was good, but I know it's a lot of fighters that I see in

31:24the gym, and I'm like, man, I don't understand how you don't perform like this

31:27on, under the lights. There's always guys like that.

31:31There's always guys that are potential world champions in the gym, and, you know, some

31:36people bank on them, and some, you know, you go, this guy just needs a

31:40mental coach, needs something to get him over that hump.

31:43But it's always interesting to me because what is the difference between a guy who

31:47could just walk out there on fight day and perform at 100 % of his

31:52ability versus a guy who gets dwarfed by the moment?

31:55The moment comes, the big pressure.

31:58Yeah. It's all mental. It's all in your head.

32:00Yeah. What you're thinking and what you're believing and the things that's going on in

32:04your brain is what's going to come out.

32:06Like, I'm already telling myself.

32:09Like I said, I tell myself it's either me or whom.

32:13So my life or your life, man, one of us got to go.

32:18Yeah. One of us got to go.

32:21But what do you think is going on?

32:23I mean, everybody experiences pressure.

32:25Everybody experiences nerves. But what is it about fighters that are so talented that let

32:31that overcome them versus fighters, oftentimes they're maybe not even as talented, but they rise

32:36to the occasion when those lights are on.

32:39When those lights are on, there are fighters that fight better.

32:42Like sometimes they look shit in the gym.

32:44Yeah. And then when those bright lights are on.

32:46I done had moments like that.

32:47Yeah. I done had moments where I'm like, man, I felt bad in the gym.

32:51I don't know what. I had this camp.

32:53This was a horrible camp.

32:55And then fight night coming, I'm like, on point.

32:58Well, you know, that's what they said about Ali when he fought George Foreman.

33:00Yeah. They said he looked terrible in the gym and everybody was nervous about him.

33:04But he had a strategy.

33:05I think with like some fighters, it's fear.

33:08Like I think it's fear of like losing or fear of the negative happening.

33:12And I think with some fighters, they allow fear to control them.

33:16Yeah. As in some other fighters who, if I get fearful, I'm going to attack

33:22my fears. Like I'm not scared to even go and give it a try.

33:26Whatever happened is going to happen at the end of the day.

33:29It's all written already. Is this something that you built up over time?

33:33Or is it something someone imparted on you when you were young and you embraced

33:37it? Like how did you learn to have that champion mindset?

33:41I think it's wild to say, but I think it's really my little brothers and

33:47my little sisters. But really my little brothers.

33:50I used to go to amateur tournaments.

33:53And if I lose and I got to come home to my little brothers, oh,

33:58they on me. They on me.

34:01And it's like you got to come home and they remember the name of the

34:04opponent that beat you. And they would throw it in your face.

34:07Oh, don't make me go get Joseph Adorno.

34:10That's a real guy that beat me back in the day.

34:12Shout out to Joseph Adorno.

34:15But I used to have to hear that in the house.

34:17And now I still be with them.

34:21So it's like I know I got to go home to my little brothers and

34:25see them after these fights.

34:28And I had that in the back of my head.

34:30I'm not coming home to them.

34:33That's crazy. Without the win.

34:35And, like, they got his nose.

34:37Did you tell your little brothers that they do that for you?

34:39No. I don't even think I ever said it to them.

34:42It just was so natural because I used to always get in fights with them.

34:45And they used to always bring up an opponent that beat me.

34:47And I'm like, now if I beat everybody, they can't say it no more.

34:52That's hilarious. That's hilarious. Well, because different fighters develop, you know, different ways of rising

35:01to the occasion. Different ways of maintaining a championships mindset.

35:05And some of them, they learn it from their coach.

35:07You know, Customato famously trained Tyson and even hypnotized him and told him that you

35:12don't exist. Only the task exists.

35:15And he had Mike Tyson just like a fucking machine when he would get into

35:18that ring. I think, shout out to my grandfather, too, because my grandfather is my

35:23coach. And, like, his energy during fight week, like, they don't even realize, like, it

35:31wasn't even just the coaching that he was doing.

35:34It's like the energy that he kind of gave off to me, it reminded me

35:37of me when, like, I was a kid and me and him would go to

35:40amateur tournaments. And, like, he just so, like, amped up and, like, ready and, like,

35:46it kind of brought on to me and it kind of got me, like, amped

35:52up as him. Like, okay, I got to stand on business for my grandfather.

35:56I got to. I don't got no choice.

35:58Oh, wow. But he's definitely a great coach.

36:01So family is a big thing for you.

36:03Yeah, family is everything for me.

36:04Like, I enjoy spending time with my family.

36:07Like, I'm not like a lot of these boxers, like, with all due respect to

36:12them, they like the fame, the, all that kind of stuff.

36:19The cars, the, I'm more so, like, I get a big check, I want to

36:23go on vacay with my family or go chill with my family.

36:28And I don't like doing stuff.

36:30Like, I enjoy spending time with my daughter.

36:32That's great. Like, I'm different.

36:34I'm not like them guys.

36:35That's so smart. It's so smart because all that other shit just drains your bank

36:40account, distracts you from your goals, gets in the way of things.

36:45It's like when I was a kid, I used to want the fame.

36:49I used to be like, oh, I want to be famous.

36:52I want everybody to know me.

36:54But it's like once you get it, it's like, ah, I don't like this.

37:00I don't like this. Like, you go places, people pulling their phones out and, like,

37:05they trying to record you.

37:07Like, bro, why are you, I'm just a regular person.

37:09Like, that's how I feel.

37:10Like, everybody bleeds. We all the same.

37:13We all human. Right. So I kind of move with that kind of thought process

37:18and I feel like a lot of people don't move with that.

37:21Like, especially people in my...

37:23Yeah, you can get inflated.

37:26Your head can get screwy.

37:27It's like you've got to balance two things at the same time.

37:30One, you are the elite of the elite.

37:32You are a world champion and one of the pound -for -pound best to ever

37:35do it. And then on top of that, you're just a human being.

37:38Yes. And we're all just human beings.

37:40But what we like, what people love about watching championship -caliber fighters and championship performances

37:48in any sport is watching just a regular human do something extraordinary.

37:53Yes. And that gives us inspiration.

37:56When I watch a great fight, I feel better for the rest of the day.

37:59When I go to bed, I feel great.

38:01I watched that fight, I went to bed, I was like, whoo!

38:03I felt great. I text Josh right after it was happening.

38:09And that's how we got in touch.

38:11Josh Dubin, shout -out to Josh.

38:12Shout -out to Josh. But I remember I texted him.

38:15I'm like, dude, that was extraordinary.

38:17And then next thing you know, we're on the phone.

38:21Definitely was a great night of boxing.

38:25I enjoyed it. I'm just glad to be here.

38:28All glory to God, I'm glad to be here.

38:32I've been here. I've been here.

38:34I've been telling people I'm the best.

38:36I'm better than these guys.

38:37You have, but you needed that breakout.

38:39You're right. You needed that breakout performance.

38:41And the problem is everybody knew you were so good, it was hard to get

38:44someone to sign up for that breakout performance.

38:47Because for a breakout performance, you need another dude who's had breakout performances that everybody

38:51respects and knows, like Tiafimo.

38:54Yeah, that was my main reason in fighting.

38:56I'm telling you, I watched him in Times Square.

38:58I looked. I said, we fighting him.

39:01Yeah. We fighting him. I want to fight him.

39:04He looked really good. He looked really good.

39:06That Times Square card was weird.

39:08He was the best fighter on the card.

39:10100%. No question. It looked like everybody was playing it safe on that card.

39:15Yeah, it did. It did.

39:16Like Devin Haney. The Devin Haney fight was odd.

39:19I learned, what I learned from that card, I felt like, I felt like them

39:23fighters didn't have enough adrenaline pumping.

39:26Like, I feel like Ryan, I know when he got in the ring, his adrenaline

39:31couldn't have been, like, too high because it was like sparring.

39:36Like, it was like not a lot of people there.

39:38It wasn't, like, that much pressure.

39:40You could hear everything somebody is saying.

39:42I know Ryan heard me all night.

39:44Like, he had to hear me.

39:45I was cheering him on, like, telling him, like, man, throw the hook, throw the

39:48hook, throw the hook. But that was when he fought Roley, right?

39:51Yeah. Yeah. That was a wake -up call, too.

39:53Yeah. Like, that was another fight where people did not expect Roley to beat Ryan.

39:58Yeah, I be throwing off.

39:59I didn't expect it either.

40:01That was one of the fights where I kind of, like, vouched for Ryan.

40:05I'm like, man, he got skills.

40:06He was a skillful fighter.

40:08Then he got in there, and I don't know what he was doing.

40:11Like, I didn't understand what was happening.

40:13You know, it's one of them things where he has the fight with Devin.

40:18He beats Devin, gets popped, you know, for whatever he was on, Osterine.

40:25And then there's, like, he's got a long time off.

40:28There's a lot of people mad at him.

40:30There's a lot of people, you know, which is such an unfortunate thing if you

40:34think about his performance against Devin because that was incredible.

40:39Yeah, but the problem is he got caught.

40:42He got caught. Yeah. So, like, I don't know.

40:45Like, for me personally, if you got caught, it's like, I can't really, me, I

40:51can't give you the credit for that.

40:52Right. I don't give him credit for that night with Devin.

40:57Yeah, but steroids don't help you land punches.

41:00I get you. They help you recover in training.

41:02They help you train a little harder.

41:04They might give you a little bit more power, but that left hook was on

41:07point. Yeah, but that little bit more power probably wasn't enough to hurt Devin because

41:13if you really watch the fight and pay attention to the fight, and people might

41:17not agree with me on this, but I feel like Devin was winning the moments

41:22that was quiet. Like, when people's not really, ah, Devin is winning most of the,

41:29like, boxing match other, but the moments where Ryan was so loud and, like, everybody

41:36got to see him get hurt and knocked down to where, like, I just feel

41:41like Devin, if he didn't get dropped by them punches, he could have won that

41:46fight. But he did get dropped.

41:47That's the problem. And also, I think— What if the Asterring was helping his power?

41:51Yeah. I mean, what was his last fight against?

41:55Delgado? Who was his last opponent?

41:58Who? Ryan. Who was the guy who just beat?

42:00Mario Barrios. Barrios, that's right.

42:02Yep, yep, Barrios. Barrios is a guy that was, like, tailor -made for a guy

42:08like Ryan. Like, he's a tough dude.

42:11He's very durable, takes a good shot, but he's not that fast.

42:16He's not, yeah. And Ryan was super fast in that fight.

42:19Ryan looked good. He looked real good.

42:21Yeah, he looked good. He looked good.

42:22Real good in that fight.

42:23And it wasn't just, like—because people would think when I'm saying, like, oh, well, you

42:29don't know whether he's cheating or not.

42:31I'm not saying that in the aspect of his boxing skills.

42:35Like, he clearly got boxing skills.

42:37Like, you can clearly see Ryan know how to move his feet, you know how

42:40to keep his distance, use his long length.

42:44He can clearly box. So, I've been saying this for years, so.

42:47Yeah, he boxes very well.

42:49And also, he showed that he has a right hand, too.

42:52Yeah, that was surprising. Yeah.

42:54And he used it, like, the whole night.

42:56Like, he just kept throwing it.

42:57So, that was very surprising.

42:59But, I mean, of course, if you want to be a complete fighter, he had

43:02to develop a right hand and start using it more because that left hook is

43:06just world class. Yeah, and he was not only, like, throwing it straight.

43:09He was throwing it around the guard.

43:11That was kind of— It was beautiful.

43:12Yeah, it was nice. It was a beautiful performance for him.

43:15Has there been any talk about you two matching up?

43:17Yeah. Yeah? But, like I said, everything got to make sense.

43:21Like, people don't understand that I walk around in my 40s.

43:26So, if I'm walking around in my 40s, I don't think, like, me going to

43:32147, like, when I fight at 147, I think that would be my— Last weight

43:37class, like in my career, like I don't see myself going past 147 ever, but

43:43I'm 28 right now. I got a long way to go, so I don't plan

43:47on moving up 47 no time soon, so if the fight happens at whatever weight

43:53class that I say, then I'm cool with it.

43:56Can he make 40 again?

43:57He said he could. He the one who came out and said, like, let's fight

44:01at 140. He said that, so if he said that, it's like, okay, you can

44:05make the weight, then let's do it.

44:07What weight was the Gervonta fight?

44:08Was that 140? That fight was at 136.

44:11That's right, and then he gave him a rehydration clause, too.

44:14Yeah, 10 pounds, yep. Very smart.

44:17Very smart. Very smart, right?

44:20I mean, yeah, it was in that situation, but I mean, I just feel like

44:27with the rehydration clause at that time, when you're already bringing somebody down to, like,

44:32a weight class that they haven't fought in years, it's like, you could have not

44:37put the rehydration clause. Like, it wasn't necessary at that point in time.

44:42I think it was necessary.

44:43I think it helped a lot.

44:44It did. It helped a lot.

44:45If you can only rehydrate 10 pounds, and you know he's way bigger than that.

44:50Ryan's a big guy. He looked weak on fight night.

44:52Like, he looked extremely weak.

44:54But I guess those dollars, that paycheck, was just too tempting.

44:59Yeah, I never understood that move.

45:01I never understood it. Because if I'm Ryan Garcia and I got a big name

45:05in the sport and all of that kind of stuff, why would I accept everything

45:10into somebody else's favor? I think because that's the only way he could get the

45:14fight, you know? Well, this is the same thing when Canelo fought Floyd, right?

45:20Floyd made him go down to 152.

45:22Remember? But it was no rehydration clause.

45:25Was it? Nope. No? It wasn't.

45:27Even if there's not. Floyd ain't never rehydration clause, nobody.

45:31Well, that's good. But if you make a guy get down to 152, even if

45:35you give him a rehydration clause, like, that's going to drain something out of your

45:38tank. But is it right?

45:40Because my question is, wasn't they fighting at 154?

45:43Wasn't Canelo fighting at 154?

45:45Normally, yeah. So he only came down two pounds.

45:48But you know that last—you're not a big weight cutter.

45:51But if you were, that last two pounds is death.

45:54Oh, for sure. When you're already drained out—for sure.

45:56Because he was a big guy for 154.

45:58And to drain out and get all the way down to 152, that had to

46:02be hard. He didn't look the same on fight day.

46:05You don't even think so?

46:05Well, I think Floyd was just a virtuoso that night.

46:09I mean, Floyd looked so good that night.

46:12That night, I don't think if he was 154, 160, I don't think he was

46:17beating Floyd. I think you're probably right.

46:20But I also think Floyd was smart to get him down to 152.

46:23For sure. The business. Yeah.

46:25It's like every angle you can get, every advantage you can get is a good

46:30one. I do agree with you about the rehydration clause.

46:33Like, get out of here with that.

46:33But we got to understand, too, right?

46:35Because I get Floyd in that instincts.

46:40If a guy is going to blow up to, let's say, what?

46:44We'll just do me and Ryan Garcia, for example.

46:47Okay. I'm going to blow up, like, 148.

46:53He's going to blow up 168 to 170.

46:57Now it's like you're in a ring with somebody that is, like, 20 pounds bigger

47:02than you. And Floyd still allowed Canelo to get big because he got big at

47:06the getting down to 152.

47:08So it's like I kind of feel it in a way.

47:12Like, I understand it. Now, the rehydration clause is kind of crazy.

47:15But I will only do a rehydration clause for fighters if I go up to

47:20147 pounds because I'm not a 147 pounder.

47:23So why would I fight at their weight class where they're comfortable and just make

47:28it easy for them? Well, the thing about a fighter like you is it's just

47:33difficult to find big names.

47:35I mean, if Gervonta fights again, that's a big fight.

47:40But that would probably be at 135, which you could probably still make easy, right?

47:44Easy. Yeah. No problem. So you have fights at 135 and fights at 140.

47:49But it's just going to be hard to get someone to step up that is

47:53going to be that big pay -per -view selling fight.

47:57Yeah. That's the problem. That is the problem.

47:59You're too good. That's the problem.

48:01You're too good. Somebody told me that before I went pro before.

48:05They was like, you're going to have a hard time in the pros.

48:07I'm telling you. Yeah. But I understand it now.

48:11Do you remember your first pro fight?

48:12Do you remember what it felt like?

48:14It felt like a whole new experience.

48:16Really? Yeah. How so? When I was in the amateurs, guys wasn't as dirty as

48:26the professionals. You don't get introduced into dirty boxing until you turn professional.

48:32Didn't you get head -butted in your first fight?

48:33I got head -butted. He head -butted me.

48:36On purpose, right? Yes. Not an accidental head -butt.

48:39That's what kind of make me say, okay, I understand.

48:42This is a whole different atmosphere.

48:45It's not the same amateur and the pros.

48:48And a lot of guys from the amateurs don't adjust to the pros as well

48:54as I did. Well, it's all about styles, right?

48:59There's some guys who have styles that are just much better for point fighting and

49:03fighting amateurs. Yeah, it's actually, you got to develop a lot of things like punch

49:08placement. Like, punching hard is really a real thing in the pros.

49:13Like, you got to have something to make somebody respect you.

49:16That's why when I hear people say, like, I got pillow hands, I'm like, y

49:21'all clearly must not be watching.

49:23Who's saying that? It'd be a lot of people.

49:25They say I got pillow hands.

49:27No, you just fight smart.

49:28Yeah. But I don't understand it because it's like, if I had pillow hands, right,

49:32why guys don't just go in there and just knock me out?

49:35Like, if I'm fighting somebody with pillow hands, I'm just going to put my shield

49:41up and just swing for the fences because they can't hurt me.

49:45Like, I don't understand why nobody won't do that if I got pillow hands.

49:49You don't have pillow hands.

49:50It's nonsense talk. What you have is a boxing intelligence where you know when to

49:56hit full blast and when to just touch them up and crack them a little

50:00bit. Yeah. And the accumulation of blows, the frustration, the mental confusion that a fighter

50:07gets when they can't hit you and you can hit them.

50:09And then you start ramping it up and then you start tuning them up.

50:12Yeah. I mean, it's people that the people that are saying that just don't understand

50:16what you're doing. Yeah, for sure.

50:18What you're doing is just perfect.

50:20You're fighting intelligence. Yeah. And that's what I love.

50:23I love watching a guy just outbox the fuck out of somebody.

50:26I love it. Yeah. Like I said, you were doing this like half speed jab

50:31and then from right there, bop!

50:33And you could tell Tio was like, Jesus Christ.

50:36You could tell he was confused.

50:38It was so fast. It was too fast.

50:40It was so fast. But that accumulation of blows over time.

50:44And his corner, it was crazy.

50:46Did you listen to the fight?

50:47Did you go back and watch it?

50:49Yeah, I went back and watched it.

50:49His corner's like, you got to hit him.

50:52Like what? It's so crazy though because like what I see with his corner is

50:57like he been doing this.

50:59Like his dad been getting in the ring and giving him them type of instructions.

51:03But Tio has been always so good to where the instructions he's giving him really

51:10does not matter because he's in control.

51:12He's winning these fights. He's doing what he's supposed to do.

51:15But that night he did need.

51:18He needed a real coach.

51:19He needed something better than that.

51:20Yeah. Well, not that his dad's not a real coach, but he needed some tactical

51:24advice. He needed some instruction on what this guy's doing to you and you got

51:28to switch it up entirely.

51:30You got to do something that confuses him.

51:32His dad is used to like something different.

51:34That's why he went in there and said like, where's your power, bro?

51:39Bro, he's used to Tio's power showing up and the amazing things that Tio does

51:46in the boxing ring. He's used to that.

51:48But whenever you're going against somebody who's on a different level also, you got to

51:54be well prepared within like a game plan.

51:57Yeah. All that kind of stuff.

51:58And I didn't see no game plan.

52:00Did you know anybody that was in his camp or ask anybody after the fight,

52:05like what was his game plan?

52:07What did he think was going to be different?

52:09No, I didn't actually. I just.

52:11I'd be interested to know that.

52:13Yeah, I do too. But I did run into him after the fight.

52:16I ran into Tio in the back.

52:18Was he cool? Yeah, he was cool.

52:20He was actually a good conversation.

52:22I felt bad that he was by himself.

52:24His manager kind of clinked it up.

52:26But during the moment that I seen him in the back, he was by himself.

52:31So I didn't like that.

52:33I didn't like that. No, that's a bummer.

52:35Yeah. But I mean, they said they was with him all night.

52:38So respect to them. So maybe you just caught him in a moment when he

52:42was alone. In a bad moment, yep.

52:43Yeah, that's the last thing you want to see is a dude who gets abandoned

52:45after a loss. Like, oh my God.

52:47And then you got to go back to camp with those assholes?

52:49I don't even like how the sport is kind of treating him now.

52:52Like, everybody acts like he's just this terrible fighter, but...

52:57Oh, that's crazy. I don't understand it when you got to give him respect.

53:00Like, this dude actually stepped up and fought a guy that nobody else wants to

53:05fight. So... Exactly. He did it.

53:07He got in the ring and laid it on the line.

53:09It didn't go his way, but he did.

53:11He tried. The thing is, I don't know if that guy's ever going to separate

53:15from his father. You know, I don't know if that guy ever is going to

53:18bring in another world -class trainer that maybe would be able to recognize some things

53:21that he's doing that he can prove upon.

53:23You know what's so crazy?

53:25During the fight, he had a coach in his corner.

53:29And I know the coach.

53:30He's from Florida, I want to say.

53:32His coach was telling him some good advice.

53:36I don't think he heard him or was listening to him, but he was telling

53:40him some good advice. Really?

53:42Yeah. I don't want to say what the advice is because I got future opponents.

53:46I got to make sure...

53:47Well, someone can go back and listen.

53:48Yeah. I can't tell what the advice was, but...

53:51Right. He was giving him some good advice.

53:53Interesting. Yeah, it's hard. Those father -son teams, there's always...

53:58There's a lot of conflict with those.

54:02Yeah, because I done watched it over the years.

54:04I feel like dads stay on top of their fighter and they make it less

54:13fun. And I feel like that's why I think my granddad is one of the

54:17best coaches because he allowed me to love the sport of boxing myself.

54:22When I had my football games and my Pop Warner games, he came to my

54:28game, watched them cheer don't want to support me, but as soon as I lost,

54:34I'm on the field crying.

54:36I'm like, oh. He comes up to me.

54:38He say, you know, in boxing, you only could lose because of yourself.

54:46And I'm looking, I'm like, what do you mean by...

54:50I'm like, oh, that is true because you're the one in a boxing ring doing

54:55the boxing. And then when I lost that football game, he was basically trying to

55:01say it was my coach's fault.

55:04So he just allowed me to choose boxing though.

55:07He always supported me when I did other things, but he ain't just stay on

55:13top of me, hound me with it.

55:15He just took me to the gym.

55:17Well, you got to let a young man become his own man.

55:20Yeah. He allowed me to choose it.

55:21And I think fathers in the sport don't allow their sons to choose it too.

55:27Like they're choosing it for them.

55:29Right. And a lot of them are overbearing in the corner.

55:32It becomes a problem. Yeah.

55:34Yeah. And they kind of be...

55:37Coaches should listen to what I'm about to say.

55:39They're father coaches. There has to be a difference between a father and a coach.

55:48So when you're coaching your son, you have to be a coach in the boxing

55:52ring instead of the father.

55:54Because when you're the father, they're going to reciprocate things wrong.

55:58And I feel like with coaches, when you're coaching, they can hear you a lot

56:05better. Mm -hmm. Yeah, yeah.

56:08Well, there's also the relationship with the father and the son where the father wants

56:11his son to listen to him Listen to me.

56:13I'm your father. You go out.

56:14You're gonna do this. You know, fuck the fuck off of me.

56:16Yeah Fuck off me dad.

56:18Are you you doing more harm to your Sunday?

56:21Yeah, he's doing good for himself.

56:22Well, especially not giving him technical advice Yeah, like that is where he needed real

56:27technical advice Yeah, cuz there was a lot of shit you were doing that he

56:30just did not have an answer for I understand Yeah, he didn't understand.

56:34He didn't clean up his bad habits and That's the thing with these fighters.

56:38A lot of them got bad habits and things that they do and I'm gonna

56:41expose it so Well, I mean The environment that you came up in and having

56:47a guy like Terrence and having other elite fighters that you train with all the

56:51time That's so important. It's so invaluable because all that shit gets exposed in the

56:56gym It does. That's where you work on it at.

56:59Yeah That's where you work on it.

57:00If you ain't work on it in the gym on fight night is going to

57:02be exposed There's no ifs ands or buts about it.

57:06Yeah, how important do you think?

57:09An amateur career is like do you think a guy like Lomachenko?

57:14Maybe would have been an even better boxer if he didn't have so many amateur

57:17fights and went into the pros at an earlier age?

57:21I think An amateur career is important because you gotta have the experience But I

57:29done seen different to where like guys have developed a lot more in the gym

57:34Like I done seen guys stay in the gym not go to tournaments and they'll

57:39get better and better and then out of nowhere They'll go to one tournament and

57:42then you'll be like who the fuck is this guy?

57:46Right. Where did he come from?

57:47How did he get so good?

57:48And I think like developing in the gym is like the biggest thing like who

57:53you sparring? Who you training with all of that stuff really matters the most the

57:58amateur experience is cool like oh Lomachenko, but If Lomachenko had different things around him

58:04in the gym, I feel like he probably would have been a better fighter Well,

58:08it's also already good with Lomachenko.

58:10It's so crazy because he really should have been fighting at 126 I mean really

58:14was never a 140 pound fighter.

58:16Yes He's a small guy.

58:18Yeah, I don't understand that I don't I didn't I didn't understand that because I

58:21think it kind of tarnish His career in a way to where like the way

58:25people look at him People don't look at him the same as they should because

58:29he was really really good, but He was at a weight class that he really

58:34wasn't supposed to be at.

58:36So Of course, you're gonna have like A harder time with them bigger guys, right?

58:41Like Tio. Yeah, like Tio.

58:42Yeah, that was a perfect example Tio was huge in that fight.

58:46Yeah, he looks so much bigger than Lomachenko and just so dangerous that it like

58:49fuck Lomachenko's strategy up Cuz you know, you got missiles coming at you from a

58:53giant dude. I mean Tio's stacked.

58:56Yeah And so you got to think like for those guys I guess it's just

59:00about chasing the multiple world titles and the bigger money at the higher weight classes

59:06Yeah, that's what with Lomachenko though.

59:09He act like he wasn't really like super money hungry So I never really understood

59:13seemed like he's maybe yeah, you're right about that.

59:16He was chasing undisputed Yeah, undisputed in world titles.

59:20I feel I feel like he got robbed in the Devin Haney fight though Do

59:24you think that to this day?

59:25Yeah, I do think yeah, I scored the fight for Lomachenko Yeah, I did too.

59:30I watched it three times in a row because I was like, what am I

59:32getting wrong here? Am I getting this wrong before I start talking about it?

59:35Yeah, and I was like no no Lomachenko should have won That was one of

59:40those where I was like, ooh, and I think that fight fucked with Devin Haney's

59:44head a little bit Like was that makes you feel like shit when you win

59:48a fight and everybody thinks that you lost the fight and you got like Yeah,

59:52then you have to carry that around with you everywhere Everybody like Lomachenko beat you

59:56like no, he didn't Yeah, it's a mental battle Fuck you Yeah, it's a mental

59:59battle And then you got to get it back I think in that fight he

1:00:01really wasn't even fighting the best version of Devin because Devin was fighting at a

1:00:05weight class He really shouldn't have been at What was that fight at?

1:00:10Was that fight at 135?

1:00:11Yeah, you think Devin should have been at 140?

1:00:14At that time, yeah, he should have been at 140.

1:00:16He was too big for 35 Yeah It's interesting, man, that balance of we're all

1:00:23fucked up in MMA because MMA there's too few weight classes Yeah And so there's

1:00:28giant gaps, like huge gaps, like at 185 to 205, you know, 155 to 170

1:00:35Those are no weight classes in between.

1:00:37I mean, that's nuts Yeah, that's insane I agree I mean, it's guys that's like

1:00:42little fighting bigger guys because it ain't enough weight classes for them to be in

1:00:48So that sounds crazy It's stupid And it's the one major complaint that i've had

1:00:53with the ufc for a decade Yeah, I was like we need way more weight

1:00:57classes Yeah, and they they're like nah, we're gonna keep it pure.

1:01:00These are the champs. It's only eight champs like that's crazy I need to start

1:01:04watching the ufc. Oh, it's fun.

1:01:06There's one this weekend in vegas if you're around I'm gonna watch some of it.

1:01:09It's a good one. I'm gonna watch it because i'm i'm like like lost like

1:01:13i'm not really In tune with like a lot of the ufc guys and the

1:01:17ufc people be kind of mad at me when I I say boxing is better

1:01:21But it's my sport. So of course you're gonna think it's better.

1:01:24It's what your life is based around Sure, of course And if you talk to

1:01:28max holloway, he's gonna say mma is better exactly And they got good explanations like

1:01:33I understand what they saying.

1:01:35Yeah, you could do It's more like skills.

1:01:37You got to learn in mma, but For me, I just feel like boxing like

1:01:41that skill level and a talent for me.

1:01:44I like better Well, there is no question the skill level and the talent when

1:01:49it comes to punching is way better in boxing You see some sloppy shit that

1:01:54people do in mma with boxing But you also have to think they're thinking about

1:01:58takedowns. They're thinking about getting kicked They're thinking about their calves getting kicked out from

1:02:03under them their legs getting kicked their body getting So they're messing up their punching,

1:02:07huh? Everything knees elbows And then there's stuff that you do in boxing that you

1:02:12can't do in mma because like your legs exposed You know like there's certain positions

1:02:17that you you would throw punches in that a guy would just calf kick And

1:02:21you get hit with one of those and you're like, oh shit, and all of

1:02:24a sudden your calf is numb and you're not moving good and your ankle doesn't

1:02:27work. It's terrible, but that's the beauty of that sport is that it's so diverse,

1:02:32but the beauty of boxing is that it's so concentrated on hand techniques.

1:02:36That the boxing techniques in boxing are far superior than what you're going to see

1:02:42in MMA. You see a few guys in MMA that could make it as pro

1:02:45boxers, but you don't see your level.

1:02:51They can't be elite level.

1:02:52No, there's no way you can.

1:02:55Impossible. You ain't been doing it for long enough.

1:02:58Just like you don't see these elite MMA fighters that could compete in jiu -jitsu

1:03:03tournaments and win world championships.

1:03:05It's very, very rare. The only way that happens is if they were a world

1:03:10champion in jiu -jitsu before they got into MMA and they still have those skills

1:03:14at a very, very high level, then some of those guys can kind of compete

1:03:18in world -class levels. So what would you say is the best skill in the

1:03:23MMA? Wrestling. Wrestling. I knew it.

1:03:26I already knew it before I asked.

1:03:28Because wrestlers can take everybody down.

1:03:29And if you get taken down, you're fucked.

1:03:31I want to learn how to wrestle.

1:03:33It's a great—well, Terrence, show you how.

1:03:35Terrence is like one of the only boxers that are like, if that guy fought

1:03:39in MMA, he could do very well.

1:03:41He would. He would do very well.

1:03:43I watched him wrestle an actual, like, USA team wrestler, and he was kind of—

1:03:49He can wrestle. Yeah, he was kind of—he was good.

1:03:52He was good. He wasn't getting— He's not lost.

1:03:55Yeah. Yeah, he knows what he's doing.

1:03:56And look, his son just won a state title.

1:03:58Yeah, for sure. He's the truth.

1:03:59Yeah. I want to learn how to wrestle, though.

1:04:01It's a good thing to know.

1:04:03It's a good thing because it's a humbling thing.

1:04:05I feel like they're the strongest people.

1:04:06Oh, yeah. Like, I feel like when they come to strength, like real strength— Yeah.

1:04:11—their bodies are, like, stronger than most.

1:04:14Oh, it's a different thing.

1:04:15When they get a hold of you, you feel like a child.

1:04:17Yeah. You just get ragdolled.

1:04:19You're like, this is embarrassing.

1:04:20Yeah. You know, that's the most important skill, I feel.

1:04:24But every fight starts standing up.

1:04:26You know? Every round starts standing up.

1:04:29You know? At the beginning of the round, you're standing up again.

1:04:31So that guy's got to take you down again.

1:04:33Yeah. And in that transition— It's time to catch somebody.

1:04:36Yeah. That's when you can catch someone.

1:04:38Yeah. I'll figure that. Look, there's elite fighters that aren't great wrestlers in MMA, like

1:04:43Alex Pereira, who's a two -division world champion.

1:04:46Yeah. But he's just a destructive kickboxer.

1:04:49Yeah. He's such a terrifying kickboxer.

1:04:50What is John Jones? John Jones, a wrestler.

1:04:53He's a wrestler? Well, he's an everything fighter.

1:04:55He could do everything. Fair.

1:04:56But he started out his career as a wrestler.

1:05:00I like him. Oh, he's the best ever.

1:05:02Yeah, I like him. The best ever.

1:05:04He's the best ever because he's the smartest of all of them.

1:05:07I mean, that guy studies.

1:05:09That's why I like him.

1:05:10That's exactly why I like him.

1:05:11I've seen a video of him saying he watches everything from top to bottom.

1:05:16He's going to watch interviews.

1:05:17He's going to watch every single thing until he finds a weakness.

1:05:21Oh, yeah. That's why I like him.

1:05:23Yeah, he gets inside their head.

1:05:24He knows every tendency they do.

1:05:26He sets traps. He does everything.

1:05:29It's funny. Daniel Cormier, who I love to death, is a great friend of mine.

1:05:32When he fought John Jones, they were talking before the fight about tendencies.

1:05:38And Daniel's like, oh, I know what you think I'm going to do.

1:05:40You think I'm going to lean towards the right, and you're going to kick me

1:05:41in the head. And John did exactly that in the fight.

1:05:45It was so crazy when he landed it.

1:05:47Look, I love both of those guys, but Daniel's a close friend.

1:05:51And so when he landed that head kick, I was like, no!

1:05:54You know, and I'm doing commentary, so I've got to be balanced.

1:06:00And I do love both of those guys, but I was like, damn, he did

1:06:04exactly what he said he was going to do.

1:06:06You said it on the commentary?

1:06:07No, I didn't say it on the commentary.

1:06:09I don't want to call it out there.

1:06:10But in the pre -fight, they were talking shit to each other.

1:06:14And one of the things is like, you have some tendencies, Daniel, and I'm going

1:06:17to exploit those tendencies. He was like, oh, you mean how I dip to the

1:06:20right? And he did exactly that.

1:06:23He caught him with that head kick.

1:06:25I was like, no. Oh.

1:06:28Wow. But look, that's the GOAT.

1:06:31That's the guy, man. He's the guy.

1:06:33He's the guy who always figures out a way to win.

1:06:35He figures it out. I heard it was somebody that he was supposed to fight,

1:06:38though, that wanted to fight him.

1:06:39It was like somebody really good.

1:06:41Oh, Tom Aspinall? Yeah, that's what I heard.

1:06:43Well, see, the thing with that is, you know, John is at the stage of

1:06:49his career where he's like, I want to fight legends, and I want to fight

1:06:53fights that are like big fights against big names that matter.

1:06:56Tom Aspinall carried a high risk.

1:06:58He wasn't a very well -known fighter, even though he's the heavyweight champion.

1:07:01And he was really the heavyweight champion because John resigned the title.

1:07:06All right. So he was the interim heavyweight champion.

1:07:09So they had like an interim title.

1:07:11And John was the undisputed heavyweight champion.

1:07:14And they were supposed to fight.

1:07:15And they didn't make that happen.

1:07:16But now, you know, after that fight, John is still trying to figure out if

1:07:23he's going to fight again.

1:07:24And if he's going to fight again, maybe he will fight because there's a big

1:07:26White House card. I heard about that.

1:07:29Yeah. And the White House card is a big one.

1:07:31And if that happens, that it won't be Aspinall probably because Aspinall just went through

1:07:37eye surgery. Yeah. Two different eye surgeries.

1:07:40He got poked in the eyes in his fight.

1:07:42Aren't you like involved in the UFC?

1:07:44Yeah. Yeah. I'm the commentator.

1:07:46Okay. I'm one of the commentators.

1:07:47So are you going to be doing like Zufa boxing too?

1:07:49No, no, no, no, no, no.

1:07:51No, that's Kellerman, Andre Ward.

1:07:54Yeah. You know, they do a great job over there.

1:07:56For sure. I'll definitely watch some of those fights though.

1:07:59I think it's interesting. It's like, I think it's good to have more organizations that

1:08:04are competing to get the fighters because then the fighters will get more money.

1:08:08Money, yes. And I think MMA could use that too.

1:08:12Unfortunately, the UFC is the big name in MMA.

1:08:15Yeah. And MMA, unlike boxing, is all about the UFC.

1:08:19In boxing, it's all about who's the champ.

1:08:21Nobody gives a shit if it's Golden Boy or Bob Arum.

1:08:25Nobody gives a fuck who the promoter is.

1:08:26Yeah. It's like, who is the fighter that's fighting?

1:08:29Yeah. Is it Triple G versus Canelo?

1:08:32Is it, who is, who are the fighters?

1:08:34Yeah. And unfortunately with MMA, it's not that it's like if you are an excellent

1:08:39fighter, but you fight for the PFL Nobody knows nobody knows.

1:08:44Yeah, there's a small audience of hardcore people that pay attention Clarissa, huh?

1:08:51Yeah, she fought for the PFL.

1:08:53She's crazy. That lady's wild.

1:08:55She's the best. She's wild Oh, she's the best.

1:08:57She's the best. She's the best.

1:08:58There's nobody better. I mean, she's the heavyweight champ now.

1:09:01It's crazy I just wish she was kind of smaller.

1:09:05So like some of the smaller girls who really think that they can be her

1:09:09Right. Can see like There's levels.

1:09:13Yeah, she's the goat. She is the goat, but she's she's not getting I mean

1:09:18as much as the love that she does Get she's not getting what she deserves

1:09:21and it's just because there's just not a lot of competition I don't understand it.

1:09:26I don't understand it. It's just two Olympic gold medals Undisputed several times in the

1:09:32sport I just don't get it Well, it's just women's boxing does not have the

1:09:37same level of respect and appreciation that men's boxing does Unfortunately, well Clarissa I respect

1:09:43and appreciate you and you are my goat, so yeah, I do as well I've

1:09:47had her on she's awesome.

1:09:48I've had her on the podcast I'm a big fan of her and I'm just

1:09:51the only one that had the courage to fight in MMA.

1:09:54I mean, that was crazy She's tough and she really did like not bad, but

1:09:58she was fighting against lesser competition.

1:10:01So yeah But she definitely was like you could tell she was charming She would

1:10:05she had to learn the grappling from a beginner's perspective She was breaking out of

1:10:09them like choke Yeah Well, she knows how to win, you know, and that's sometimes

1:10:16that's enough You know at that high a level as elite a level as she

1:10:20is But I think she's rightly just concentrating on boxing because I think she realizes

1:10:25that to To be a world champion in MMA, she kind of have to abandon

1:10:29boxing Yeah, for sure And it would be a long Process Journey Yeah And she'd

1:10:34probably have to absorb a couple more losses Yeah It ain't really worth it Fuck

1:10:40these girls up in boxing And I know she don't like losing No, not at

1:10:45all, no Yeah She's fun She's a fun fighter to watch though If anybody can

1:10:51get people to pay attention to women's boxing, it's Clarissa Yes, because she's exciting I

1:10:56don't see it That's why I don't understand I don't get it I don't get

1:10:59it She deserves all her flowers She's the true fan I've never seen nobody, no

1:11:07female as good as her ever in my life No, she's probably the greatest of

1:11:10all time I think everybody would agree You know, you've had a few, there's a

1:11:14few great fighters over the years that have been female fighters But she's the real

1:11:18standout Yeah Yeah No question It's just, unfortunately, that sport, I mean, there's not a

1:11:24lot of women out there that want to get punched in the face If you

1:11:27had a room full of a thousand women, there might be like one or two

1:11:30that would be like, oh, I'll try that You know what I mean?

1:11:33No, I think it's some solid female fighters in the sport of boxing Oh, there

1:11:36are There are But not in comparison to the numbers in men Men's boxing is

1:11:41just, you know, a lot of kids grow up, they want to be a boxer

1:11:45Yeah, for sure Not a lot of women are like, let me put the doll

1:11:49down and fuck some chick up That's an unusual mindset Yeah, it is You know,

1:11:55it's just, you know, it is what it is It's, we're fortunate to be able

1:12:01to have her, though Yeah Because, like, if there's anybody that's going to elevate the

1:12:05sport and bring in new fighters It's going to be someone who is really the

1:12:08only person in the sport that gets a tremendous amount of attention as a woman

1:12:11Yeah Yeah, she done became a superstar, so Yeah It's definitely interesting seeing her in,

1:12:19like, them big arenas and having all the people walk out with her And it's

1:12:25amazing to see, so I'm enjoying her process and I'm glad that I'm here to

1:12:29witness it Yeah, me too, yeah I mean, but, you know, other than her, in

1:12:33the past, there haven't been enough, like, women that have, like, really, you know, Christy

1:12:39Martin, Layla Ali, Ann There's, like, a few that I like Ann Wolfe Ann Wolfe

1:12:45was a beast Yeah, I like her She was one of the few that could

1:12:47flatline a chick with one shot, too Yeah, I like her She was the truth

1:12:51Oh, yeah, man She was the truth And a great trainer, too Yeah When she

1:12:55was training Kirkland Oh, yeah Bro, they showed those videos of what she was putting

1:13:00him through And, you know, when he fought Canelo, he didn't have her in his

1:13:04corner I was just about to say, the fights that he lost, he kind of

1:13:06did not have her, huh?

1:13:07Exactly And the fights that he won She was a fucking general, dude She was

1:13:11a general She put him through some brutal shit But those were the fights that

1:13:16he was ultra prepared Yeah You know?

1:13:19I think that's the, like, people don't realize I feel like the best coaches in

1:13:24the sport of boxing are the people that kind of box I bet, yeah Like

1:13:27Robert Garcia Mm -hmm I think he's the truth as a coach Sure Bo Mack

1:13:33Bo Mack, another fighter Yep Buddy McGirt Buddy McGirt, yep Oh, he was a great

1:13:38fighter Yeah I just feel like the coaches that's been in there is kind of

1:13:42like, they know Sure, yeah I think it helps a lot I mean, there's a

1:13:48few guys, like Emanuel Stewart, did he have an amateur background?

1:13:51I think so Yeah I'm not sure, I think so, though I think so Emanuel

1:13:55just had a brilliant mind for the sport Yeah, I like the way he talked,

1:13:59too I'll be watching some of his old videos Yeah He actually, it was something

1:14:03that I was doing in my fight, for this fight But I watched a video

1:14:07of him, and he said, um, fighters overtrain Like, they're overtrained And when I seen

1:14:15it, he started explaining the reasons why you know that they're overtraining And I seen

1:14:20it, and I started cutting back on some of the things that I'm doing I'm

1:14:24like, man, I don't want to overtrain, and don't come out at my best Amateur

1:14:28boxing career, he compiled a record of 94 wins, 3 losses in the amateur Including

1:14:33winning the 1963 National Golden Gloves Tournament in the Bantamweight Division Wow, Bantamweight, that's crazy

1:14:40I mean, he was small That's crazy But man, what he did with the Kronk

1:14:45Gym He also had this gym, like, cranked up He made it, like, 98 I

1:14:49mean, what he did with the Kronk Gym Grease in there all the time, so

1:14:51everybody was, like, training in the heat.

1:14:53Yep, and he had a lot of boxers that was, like, top -level boxers in

1:14:57there, so they was pushing each other to get better, so that's the cheat code

1:15:01right there. Oh, it is the cheat code, right?

1:15:04Iron sharpens iron. Yep. Yeah, you can't be the best boxer in your gym and

1:15:09have everybody else that's way below you and really get to that world -class level.

1:15:12No, impossible. It's impossible. You've got to bring in guys that's on a high level.

1:15:17And honestly, for me, I keep, like, the young kids that's, like, up and coming.

1:15:25Like, my little cousin, he's a great boxer, and he's up and coming, and I

1:15:29just was in the gym with him yesterday and played sparring with him, and I

1:15:34keep a lot of good boxers around me, a lot of good boxers.

1:15:37There's another kid, Emmanuel Chance, he's, like, 19 years old, and, like, they are so

1:15:42skillful right now to where, like, when I'm around them, I'm still picking up things

1:15:47from them, and they probably don't even know it, but I'm definitely, I got my

1:15:52notepad out everywhere I go.

1:15:55Well, it's so important, right?

1:15:57Yeah, like, mentally it's locked in here.

1:15:59Like, I'm watching and studying.

1:16:00Well, it's also, everybody does everything different.

1:16:03Yeah. You know, and you can just pick up little things here and there from

1:16:06what they do and start incorporating that.

1:16:08Yep. People don't know, right before the fight with T .O., it was a, I'm

1:16:14going to tell you a fight that I was watching.

1:16:15Okay. I'm going to give out a little secret.

1:16:18It was an eight -year -old kid, Tremaine Williams.

1:16:23He fought a guy named Dusty Harrison, and, like, they literally eight years old, but

1:16:29I liked the way Tremaine was fighting in that fight.

1:16:31He was using his jab, and he was the shorter fighter, but he was keeping

1:16:36his range and distance, and I was literally watching an eight -year -old kid fight

1:16:41right before the biggest fight of my life.

1:16:43That's amazing. And you were studying it.

1:16:45Wow. I swear. That's great.

1:16:49That's such a great mindset.

1:16:51Yeah. I mean, that's how you really grow and learn, that you can absorb something

1:16:55from everybody. Yeah, you can learn from anywhere.

1:16:58Like, I was watching an interview with you once where you were talking about Terrence,

1:17:01and you said you really learn more watching Terrence.

1:17:05Than being in there. Yeah.

1:17:06Terrence. I still feel that way.

1:17:08Like, I feel like I learn more from, like, seeing the things he's doing than,

1:17:14like, being in the ring with him.

1:17:15Now, when we in the ring, it's always chess.

1:17:17Like, we having chess matches, but when I'm watching, I can see some of the

1:17:23things he's doing, and I'm like, damn, this dude is just different.

1:17:27Like, I knew before the Spence fight what was happening.

1:17:30I knew before the Canelo fight what was happening.

1:17:33Like, even when I was in the locker room, I'm in the locker room, I'm

1:17:37looking at him, call my Batman.

1:17:39I'm like, yo, put me some more money in.

1:17:42I know what time it is.

1:17:45No lie, though. But watching him in the gym, you got to see hard training

1:17:51sessions. Yeah. You got to see when he looked great.

1:17:54You got to see bad days in the gym.

1:17:56Yep. You got to see how he recovered, how he came back.

1:18:01Like I said, he's one of the most competitive human beings I've ever met, so

1:18:05I do get to see all of it.

1:18:08Like, I get to see go home with him and, okay, let me see how

1:18:13he's thinking about this. He'll go back and watch the sparring, and when he's watching

1:18:16it, oh, my God, he's adjusting.

1:18:19His brain is just adjusting to the sparring that he just watched, and then we'll

1:18:23go in the gym the next day, and now he's just doing things and everything's

1:18:29just on point. So do you do that?

1:18:31Do you watch your sparring sessions?

1:18:32Yeah, I learned that from him.

1:18:33Yeah? I used to really never used to do that, but I had seen him.

1:18:38I forget what sparring session he was watching.

1:18:41I want to say on his iPad, and he was watching it, and then I

1:18:45seen him spar the next time, and I'm like, ooh, he looked like a million

1:18:49bucks. Like, the adjustments that he made was just insane, so I started doing the

1:18:54same thing. I'm like, if I have a day I don't like, I go home,

1:18:58why did I have this day?

1:19:01Oh, my God, I keep doing that.

1:19:03Why do I keep doing that?

1:19:04Okay, I'm not doing that no more.

1:19:06Oh, I can hit him with this.

1:19:07I see that shot is open.

1:19:09Okay, now I'm going to hit him with this shot, and I think that helps

1:19:13me tremendously. That makes sense, like, watching yourself as an observer the way you would

1:19:18watch an opponent. Yeah. Yeah.

1:19:21You got to see what you do good and, like, what you do bad.

1:19:24Yeah. And correct the things that you do bad.

1:19:27Instead of just remembering it from the training, watching it.

1:19:32Yeah, because I have, like, a bad habit sometimes when I'm, like, in a boxing

1:19:35gym. I, like, a fight.

1:19:39I don't have, like, I don't know why I would get in there, and sometimes

1:19:43I just turn into a fighter instead of realizing that I'm a boxer.

1:19:47Right. And then sometimes I get hit with shots, and I'm like, oh, why am

1:19:51I getting hit with that shot?

1:19:53I'm like, I know. My mental, my brain was already locked in on fighting instead

1:19:57of being locked in on boxing.

1:20:00Then you fight. Explain to people what is the difference between your mentality fighting and

1:20:05your mentality as a boxer.

1:20:07When I'm fighting, I'm emotional.

1:20:11Mmm. Like, and I don't want to be emotional, but I'm emotional, and I'm fighting

1:20:18somebody. I'm trying to, like, beat them up, and I'm having a contest of who's

1:20:23the bigger and stronger guy.

1:20:27And when I'm boxing, I'm just on top of my game, and it's like I'm

1:20:32able to hit you, and you not able to hit me.

1:20:35And that's what I do best, so I try to, like, stick with what I

1:20:40do best. And it's going to be a time to fight, so I have that

1:20:43in my arsenal for sure, but I don't like just doing it for no reason.

1:20:48Do you sometimes feel yourself get in an emotional fight and have to pull it

1:20:52back? I never had it happen in a fight, but I done had it happen,

1:20:56like, in a spar to where, like, all right, bro, you, your emotions is just

1:21:01taking control instead of, like, you just.

1:21:03It's having fun and enjoying what you're doing.

1:21:07Right. So, yeah, I done had no moments in the gym for sure.

1:21:11So it's just like a composure thing.

1:21:14All of a sudden, you're now not thinking as much.

1:21:17You're just trying to beat his ass.

1:21:18Take the emotions out of the situation and just be you.

1:21:21Yeah. Be present. That's really my main thing.

1:21:24I want to be present in what I'm doing and not moving off of, like,

1:21:29feelings. Right. Right. That probably fucks up a lot of fighters, don't it?

1:21:34Yeah, for sure. Because so many, especially men, they're so wrapped up in their feelings

1:21:39and their emotions when they're fighting.

1:21:42Yeah, but fighters don't study theyself.

1:21:43Like, I study myself. Like, I got to check in with myself and see, like,

1:21:48what am I doing wrong and what am I doing right?

1:21:50And I correct it. You think that's rare?

1:21:54Yeah, I think that's a rare attribute because fighters depend on their coaches.

1:21:59They depend on their coaches to do everything.

1:22:02And I depend on my grandfather when I need him, but I know that I'm

1:22:07the fighter that's in there.

1:22:08So I'm not trying to just depend on them.

1:22:11I want to depend on myself also.

1:22:14So, like, do you try to get the other guys in the gym to follow

1:22:19your footsteps and watch footage?

1:22:21You tell them, like, help them out with that?

1:22:23Yeah. Like, the younger guys that I just mentioned, my little cousin and my little

1:22:28brother down there, Manny, I try to tell them to tune in with theyself and

1:22:34do the same similar things.

1:22:35Watch yourself. See what you're doing wrong and try to correct it.

1:22:39But they're younger, so as time go on, they will, like, pick up on it.

1:22:44But I can't rush how I feel and my beliefs on them right now.

1:22:49Well, the best thing you could do is lead by example.

1:22:51Yeah. Always. That's my main thing.

1:22:53Yeah. If you do all the hard work and they'll see your success, when they

1:22:58have harder moments, they'll go, okay, what do I need to adjust?

1:23:01Yep. Let me follow Shakur.

1:23:03Yep. Well, let me see what the champ is doing.

1:23:06Yeah, that's the goal. That's my main goal because, like I said, I ain't going

1:23:10to be boxing forever. So once I'm done, I'm going to sit back and I'm

1:23:15going to help them out.

1:23:16Do you plan on coaching when you're done?

1:23:19I probably don't coach. Just help out in the gym?

1:23:23Just call me a secret weapon.

1:23:26Call me a secret weapon.

1:23:28I'll be that guy. Do you already think about what you're going to do when

1:23:31you retire? Because boxing is a sport where when you retire, you still have so

1:23:37much life ahead of you.

1:23:38Man, that's the truth. But I've been trying to, like, figure it out because I

1:23:44know it's going to be within boxing.

1:23:47But whatever I do, I'm going to do to the best of my ability.

1:23:50I'm going to want to, like, make tons of money for what I'm doing.

1:23:55And if I'm a secret weapon, shit, I might make money just being a secret

1:24:01weapon. So we'll see. Right.

1:24:03Just someone to bring you into camp.

1:24:05I'm the right guy for it.

1:24:07Yeah? I got all the IQ.

1:24:09I watch too much boxing.

1:24:11Like, my life is, like, literally sit down and watch TV, watch, iPad, watch.

1:24:18Right. I just live boxing.

1:24:20So I think that'll be kind of easy.

1:24:22But I just see myself, like, taking over the world.

1:24:27In what way? I don't know.

1:24:29Like, I can't tell you.

1:24:30Like, I don't know. Like, my brain kind of, like, different.

1:24:33Like, I don't feel like.

1:24:35I know for a fact I'm not going to be boxing for long.

1:24:38Like, I don't plan on getting in the ring, doing the risks, and doing all

1:24:42that forever. So when I take over the world, it's going to be more so,

1:24:48like, me just locking in and using the same focus that I got for boxing

1:24:52into whatever else that I'm doing and take over.

1:24:57Like, whatever I do, I want to be the best.

1:24:59So you don't even have a thought of what it's going to be?

1:25:02You'll figure that out when you get out of boxing.

1:25:05I journal a lot, so I'll be writing things down.

1:25:07Oh, really? So I can't tell you exactly what it's going to be, but I

1:25:11do know that. I'm going to be somewhere making millions in a different atmosphere.

1:25:17Well, that's a great attitude to have.

1:25:19I'm glad you say you journal because this is one of the things that I

1:25:22wanted to bring up. I wish more boxers were interested in writing books because I

1:25:29think there's some of the things that you're talking about today and some of the

1:25:33things you're talking about in terms of, like, watching yourself, analyzing yourself, things you've learned.

1:25:38That would be very, very valuable if it's written down.

1:25:41But boxing knowledge is all word of mouth in the gym.

1:25:47It's all people who know things, tell other people, and they learn things, and you've

1:25:52got to go to these gyms and talk to these people.

1:25:54Or you get boxing knowledge from the commentators like Andre Ward will spit it out

1:25:58or Roy Jones will spit it out.

1:26:00Like, that is where boxing knowledge gets sort of recorded.

1:26:06Yeah. But I think it would be great if boxers could sit down and write

1:26:12just on boxing because you think about, like, what a huge sport boxing is.

1:26:18Huge sport. Like, one of the pinnacles of sports, of combat sports.

1:26:23But yet, there's not a lot of books written about technique and style and how

1:26:30they learn things and what they learned and why and what changed.

1:26:35And I learned that in this fight.

1:26:37In this fight, this changed.

1:26:39And I adjusted this about my training sessions.

1:26:41And I heard Emmanuel Stewart talk about overtraining.

1:26:44And so I realized maybe I was doing that.

1:26:47It is one book. What is it?

1:26:50Andre Ward book. Oh, that's right.

1:26:52Andre Ward book. People got to read it.

1:26:53But I'm not fully done with it either.

1:26:55But as I read through some of it, he's giving out some free game.

1:27:01Yeah? Like, it's free game in there that people could go listen to and read

1:27:06it and check it out because it's definitely like...

1:27:09Did he read it for the audio book?

1:27:11I'm not sure. I'm not sure.

1:27:13I know I got the actual book, so I just read it.

1:27:15But I didn't finish it.

1:27:17I won't say that I...

1:27:18finish it but but he talks all about those things it's a lot of things

1:27:22in there that's like free game like okay oh i like that like i might

1:27:26take that like if you're training even if you're training a fighter like you're training

1:27:30the fighter it's something that i saw that he said that i'm like okay i'm

1:27:34gonna i'm gonna take that if i'm gonna train fighters narrated by andre ward perfect

1:27:39killing the image a champion's journey fighting and forgiveness he's the perfect guy to do

1:27:44that too because like i said he's the guy that did it right you know

1:27:48went out on top what's that he helped you understand yeah yeah well we need

1:27:53more books like that i'll read that book i haven't read it but i'll read

1:27:56it because i think um it's just there's so much knowledge out there in certain

1:28:02camps and it would benefit the entire sport if someone would document some of that

1:28:08stuff because some of that stuff is only told to the fighters that this guy's

1:28:12training and only told to the other fighters this guy trains with and it's not

1:28:18it's not out there and it could get lost you know like i'm sure there's

1:28:22some shit that floyd knows that only people around him know that have been told

1:28:27that will be lost yeah for sure you know i'm saying it's something he told

1:28:31me before this last fight that i took in and i'm like oh really what

1:28:36is that i'm using that um it's simple though it's very simple i don't like

1:28:41i said it's hard for me to keep giving out the maybe when i retire

1:28:45oh come on man what'd he say no he just told me um stretching stretching

1:28:52stretching how powerful like stretching is and i i just gave up it's simple though

1:29:00like people know it but do people do it dude people don't even do it

1:29:05in mma yeah you know how crazy that is where you have to kick and

1:29:09people don't stretch yeah like i was having a conversation with this dude who was

1:29:12a world champion and i was explaining to him the a jiu -jitsu position i

1:29:16was like this is why it's effective he's like oh i can't get my legs

1:29:19up that high i go what are you talking about you you can you just

1:29:23have to stretch she goes i don't really stretch i go that's crazy every no

1:29:27there's a lot of fighters in sports that's like i don't see it that's crazy

1:29:34i don't see it well floyd has always been a guy who did everything right

1:29:39i mean if you want to emulate a guy's career floyd has been hit hard

1:29:44maybe three times in his whole career yeah maybe yeah he's the truth like a

1:29:50hundred percent i every time i watch he's a wizard i didn't i barely seen

1:29:54anybody like that good like for me personally yes barely like it's only a handful

1:30:01of people that i could say like okay they're that good like yeah his brain

1:30:06just working at a different level than a lot of people also just insanely disciplined

1:30:10always in shape always took care of himself would uh go out to a club

1:30:15drink water and then run home in jeans and jeans that's tough i heard he

1:30:21had on like boots boots i never heard of that like that before i can

1:30:28imagine i mean but that's the results right you get a guy who's just head

1:30:32and shoulders above everybody he fights yeah and just a master of pinpoint precision and

1:30:39movement and knowing where you are and hard to hit but stood right in front

1:30:43of you that's the crazy thing about floyd there's a lot of guys that are

1:30:47hard to hit but they were like fleet of foot and moving around and footwork

1:30:50and lomachenko style you know yeah not floyd right in front of you right in

1:30:55front of you you can't hit him kind of crazy kind of similar to me

1:30:58yes but no i think he's he's definitely he's a chico yeah his mental was

1:31:05just too far ahead of everybody else's yeah that's the main thing well the one

1:31:11fight between like guys who retired and came back that i'm still interested in seeing

1:31:16is him and manny and i know they're gonna do that on netflix floyd i

1:31:21think that's still a high level fight though that's what i love about it because

1:31:25i think manny is still a high level fighter and uh floyd even in these

1:31:30exhibitions that he's been doing looking good he looks great man he looks great in

1:31:35sparring you see him in sparring like good lord man it doesn't look like he's

1:31:40lost a step yeah i honestly i don't see um many being able to beat

1:31:45floyd midweather like i don't see it i i think many look solid his last

1:31:50fight with barrios but um i just don't see floyd losing like i think it's

1:31:55some guys that he could come back today in the sport of boxing and fight

1:32:00yeah i think so like guys like barrios yeah right i think he would he

1:32:05would light barrios up yeah yeah yeah but i mean it's like there's levels i

1:32:10mean no matter what he's lost being 46 he they haven't gained that yet i

1:32:15mean they're not they're they were never there in the first place because so if

1:32:17he was here and he's lost this much they're still here yeah even though he's

1:32:22not floyd that fought canelo or floyd that fought ricky hatton it's not the same

1:32:30floyd it's not that much different yeah he's still so far ahead because he's not

1:32:36drinking he's not fucking his body up he's not doing anything stupid he stays in

1:32:40shape he eats right yeah yeah i appreciate floyd too because um that's one of

1:32:46the guys that i never did no business with ever and he still kind of

1:32:52helped me so i appreciate him man i think he's a real dude he got

1:32:58my love and respect well i always say that if you wanted to have a

1:33:02style that you emulate where you want to have a great career look at that

1:33:06guy like really very few times in his career ever got hurt yeah very very

1:33:12few you can count him on one hand yep you know and where he was

1:33:15in any kind of trouble at all yeah that's my goal and then when in

1:33:18rematches oh my god in rematches he's always just like so like my donna like

1:33:24my donna the first fight was rough fight yeah second fight he looked like a

1:33:29master i'm not gonna lie though he's one of the guys that Makes me want

1:33:33to, like, feel the experience of, like, getting hurt.

1:33:38Because, like, when he fought Shane Mosley, that moment of, like, he lost his whole

1:33:45balance, everything, almost went to his feet, but he stayed up.

1:33:50Yep. And then he fought back harder.

1:33:52Like, I feel like that was, like, an amazing moment of his career.

1:33:57And, like, for me, I want to have the experience, like, of that moment.

1:34:01Like, I have never got hit, like, cracked like that yet in a pro, so

1:34:06I actually want to experience it.

1:34:08You really want that? Yeah.

1:34:10Really? That's crazy. Because I want to show, like— That you can do it.

1:34:13Yeah, like, you've got to see.

1:34:14Like, I've got more in me to just—than just being, like, a good boxer.

1:34:18Like, I'm a good boxer, but I'm tough, too.

1:34:20The Mosley fight was probably the fight where he got hurt the most.

1:34:23Yeah. Yeah, and the most dangerous, because it was, like—I think it was kind of

1:34:26in the middle of the round, right?

1:34:28Yeah. Yeah. I want to feel that experience.

1:34:31Wow. And that was prime, mostly, too.

1:34:33I told Andre Ward that.

1:34:34He told me, he's like, man, why would you want to—why would you want to?

1:34:39But I'm like, I don't understand why, but I definitely do.

1:34:42Who do you think out there could do that?

1:34:44I don't think nobody. I don't think they're, like, mentally on the level to even—I

1:34:52think I'm just too far ahead.

1:34:54But that's the problem of being too far ahead is that it's going to be

1:34:58hard for you to get fights.

1:35:00Yeah. What are they talking about right now?

1:35:02Is there anybody that they're talking about right now for you?

1:35:05Nah, I haven't really heard none from a business standpoint since my last fight, so—

1:35:11The problem is the last fight was too good.

1:35:14You know, like, you would have probably got some offers before that fight, but after

1:35:18that fight, everybody's like, hold on.

1:35:20I don't know if I want that to happen to me.

1:35:22Yeah, I don't—I have no clue who I'll be fighting next, so— Who do you

1:35:27have your sights on? Like, who do you—like, if you could make the decision, who

1:35:31do you think is interesting right now?

1:35:32If I could make a decision, interest, what interests me, maybe, and this is crazy

1:35:39to say, I may go back to 35 and get that ring belt.

1:35:45Really? I may. We'll see, though.

1:35:47Yeah? I can't promise that I will, but I may.

1:35:50What makes that more interesting to you?

1:35:55I like the ring belt.

1:35:56Like, I like the ring magazine belt.

1:35:58I don't know what it is about it.

1:36:00It's a classic belt. I always liked it.

1:36:02But for me to have a ring belt at 130, and then I had—I got

1:36:09a ring belt right now at 140, but I never had a ring belt at

1:36:1235. And it's like, should I just go get that ring belt just to have

1:36:19it? So it's the belt, not even the opponent?

1:36:22I know the opponent that I would have to fight to get it.

1:36:25I'm hearing this Rayman Moritaya.

1:36:28He's a good fighter. He just beat Andy Cruz.

1:36:31So, nah, this ain't the opponent.

1:36:33It's more so just to have the ring belt.

1:36:35So, that's crazy. Like, you're at a position where you're not even thinking about opponents.

1:36:39You're thinking about belts you'd like to acquire.

1:36:43For sure. That's pretty cool, though.

1:36:46I mean, that's a beautiful place to be in.

1:36:48Yeah. That's beautiful. But what about opponents?

1:36:51Is there any opponents? Like, if you had—like, if no one could say no, and

1:36:55you were like, I'm going to orchestrate my career, who would you like to fight?

1:37:00If it was no opponents, I mean, and I was orchestrating, I'd probably— Because the

1:37:10fight that I would think that would generate the most amount of interest at 135

1:37:15would be Tank. Now, I know Tank's got some legal issues now, and I don't

1:37:20know what his status is currently, but when it terms of big names, Tank is

1:37:27the big name at 35.

1:37:29Yeah. Yeah. I would love for it to happen, but the way that he went

1:37:37on, like, social media and kind of, like, bashed me in a way to where

1:37:42it was like he made it seem like I need—I need him.

1:37:47And I just feel disrespected about it, because at the end of the day, I'm

1:37:50a grown man. I make my own money.

1:37:53I'm living a spectacular life.

1:37:56I don't need nobody. So if he feels as though I need him, and if

1:38:01it's that kind of stuff, then it's like, whatever.

1:38:04I'm not in need of that fight.

1:38:06The thing is, is, like, Tank had gotten a bunch of those high -profile fights.

1:38:11He KO'd Ryan. He's had some big high -profile fights.

1:38:14He looked great. And so for him to say that, he's probably—you know, he's talking

1:38:19shit, obviously, but he's, like, looking at you as, like, you haven't had—before the Lopez

1:38:24fight, you haven't had that big breakout fight.

1:38:28But now you have. Now you have, and it was more spectacular than you—I mean,

1:38:34if you wanted to write out a perfect result on paper against a world champion

1:38:37like Tia Fimo, that would be the fight, you would say.

1:38:40Yeah. So that's—if I had to think of, like, a big fight for you, if

1:38:45I was the guy with the magic wand, that would be the fight that I

1:38:48would set up. I would love to fight.

1:38:50That would be a big fight.

1:38:51I would love for that fight to happen, so.

1:38:53Ooh, that would be a big fight.

1:38:54Especially after you just beat Lopez.

1:38:56That would be a big fight.

1:38:58I would love for the fight to happen.

1:38:59That might be the only big fight that I could think of, other than you

1:39:02going up. But 47s, like you said, that's a big jump, man.

1:39:08Yeah, I'm not—I'll make it, though.

1:39:09I'll make it soon. Soon—I mean, later than sooner.

1:39:14Do you think if you did that, you would want to prepare and put mass

1:39:19on, or would you just stay at the weight you are and just get accustomed

1:39:22to fighting bigger guys? Uh, if I was to go to 47, I would want

1:39:28to, like, prepare. Like, I would want to do it slowly.

1:39:32I wouldn't want to just jump to 147 and— Right.

1:39:37You would want to put on weight, you think?

1:39:39Yeah. Some type of weight, yep.

1:39:40Yeah. Because I'm little, like, I can't just jump in the ring at the size

1:39:45that I am at 147.

1:39:47Seven pounds when I know guys is going to be a lot bigger.

1:39:50Right, especially when you're talking about Ryan being 170 when he gets in the ring.

1:39:54He might even be bigger than that.

1:39:55He was big and ripped in his last fight.

1:39:58He looked fucking great. Yeah, for sure.

1:40:00You know, but it's like that's one of those things, too, is if you do

1:40:07go up, going down gets real hard.

1:40:11Going back, like if you go up to 47.

1:40:14I don't understand the reason with that.

1:40:16Because your body gets accustomed to being bigger.

1:40:18For real? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1:40:20So if you put on mass, right?

1:40:22So if you put on muscle and you go up to like 147, and so

1:40:26you're walking around at 155, 160, something like that, you drop down to 47.

1:40:31You've got more shoulder muscle, chest muscle, back muscle, leg muscle.

1:40:36If you stay at that weight and then you've got to cut down to 35,

1:40:41you're going to feel like shit.

1:40:42And the example that I always use is Roy.

1:40:45So when Roy Jones went up and fought John Ruiz, won the heavyweight title, then

1:40:49he went back down to light heavyweight, he never looked the same.

1:40:53Because he was 200 pounds solid at a heavyweight.

1:40:56Yeah. Ripped, like muscular, 200 pounds.

1:40:59For him to lose 25 pounds of weight and go back down to light heavyweight,

1:41:05that is fucking hard. Yeah, I get that.

1:41:08I get that. I feel like when Roy did that, Roy was like, I think

1:41:16he must have been trying to set up a big heavyweight fight maybe, or was

1:41:20he just trying to just win a title?

1:41:22I mean, I think he was just trying to be like the only guy to

1:41:24go from middleweight to win the heavyweight title, which he did.

1:41:27Yeah, I don't understand why he did that.

1:41:29Because you're right, when he fought Tarver, it was like, I don't know what was

1:41:33happening. Like, I didn't really think Tarver was as good as Roy, but Tarver beat

1:41:39Roy. Tarver's a bad motherfucker, though.

1:41:42Tarver's a very good fighter.

1:41:45But to beat Roy? I think Tarver in that fight, first of all, they had

1:41:50fought before, right? They had a real close decision loss, Tarver lost.

1:41:55And then Tarver got in his head at the beginning of the fight.

1:41:58So you got any excuses tonight, Roy?

1:42:00That was crazy. That was crazy.

1:42:01That was crazy. Like, to hear that, like, right when you're about to fight.

1:42:06Yeah. Any questions for the champion?

1:42:08Any questions for the champion?

1:42:08Got any excuses tonight, Roy?

1:42:10Man, oh my God, right?

1:42:12Man, I don't know. That was one of the wildest things anybody's ever said.

1:42:16That would have turned me up, though.

1:42:18Like, if he would have said that to me, like, I'm trying to picture somebody

1:42:21saying that to me right before we fight.

1:42:23Now I'm going to want to, I already want to beat you bad.

1:42:26Right. Now I'm going to want to beat you even better.

1:42:29Like, then after the fight, I'm going to get on the mic and, what did

1:42:32you say? Did you say something?

1:42:34But when he dropped Roy and knocked him out, I was like, oh my God,

1:42:37I can't believe it. Yeah.

1:42:39But I was worried about him because I know what that does to people when

1:42:44they drop weight. And dropping down from 200 pounds to 175 will really wear your

1:42:50body out. Yeah. So you think it was more so the weight than the skills

1:42:53of Tarver? I would never say that.

1:42:55Because I think Tarver has elite skills.

1:42:58I mean, Tarver's elite. I think he's elite.

1:43:01Oh, come on. I think Tarver's an elite fighter.

1:43:04Elite? You don't think he's elite?

1:43:05No. No. I mean, he's had great performances and not as good performances.

1:43:11But I think in the performance against Roy, he looked elite.

1:43:15Yeah, he looked good that night.

1:43:16Because he rose to the occasion.

1:43:18I just don't know about elite.

1:43:20Elite level. I get it.

1:43:22For me personally, I'm not the biggest Tarver fan, so.

1:43:26Okay. Well, I defer to your championship knowledge.

1:43:29But, I mean, in that fight, you can't say that he didn't look spectacular in

1:43:33that fight against Roy. Yeah, he did.

1:43:34He did. He looked on point.

1:43:35He looked like he was the better fighter at that moment.

1:43:39Yeah. Awkward. Southpaw. When I watched the first fight, I thought Roy was a way

1:43:43better fighter than him. I thought Roy just stood on the ropes for way too

1:43:47long. I don't know why he did that.

1:43:51Was the first fight before or after he fought Ruiz?

1:43:58It was after. Was it after the first fight they had too?

1:44:02Yeah. That probably wore his ass out too.

1:44:04I think, I just think once you go all the way up like that, you

1:44:07should probably stay there. Yeah.

1:44:09And I don't know how he went up.

1:44:10I don't want to, you know, it's hard for a guy in his 30s to

1:44:15put on that kind of muscle.

1:44:17Yeah. And generally, you have some help.

1:44:20Yeah. So, generally, some Mexican supplements involved.

1:44:24And so, the problem is.

1:44:26He took Osterene. Once you have taken that stuff and then you stop taking it

1:44:33because you want to go back to your normal weight, your whole endocrine system gets

1:44:37fucked up. This is the problem with juicers.

1:44:40Guys that take juice, the thing that happens is.

1:44:43Man, don't tell me this.

1:44:44Oh, no. Listen, I'm not saying this about Roy.

1:44:46Okay, okay, okay. But I'm saying this about fighters in general.

1:44:48We just talk in general.

1:44:50Are we good? Fighters that gain weight and have lean muscle and put on that

1:44:55kind of mass. Yeah. Generally, they're doing it with some kind of supplement.

1:45:01Some kind of either steroids or something that juices up your endocrine system.

1:45:06Whether it is peptides. And it will help you gain weight?

1:45:08Yes. Damn, I never heard of this.

1:45:10You didn't know? Nah. What?

1:45:12Come on, man. You don't?

1:45:13For real? Nah, I didn't know.

1:45:14Oh, come on. There's a lot of fighters that took stuff.

1:45:16Oh, I know. No, I know that.

1:45:18Yeah. I know that people is cheating.

1:45:21Oh, well, in the older days, before they were testing?

1:45:23Yeah. Oh, come on, man.

1:45:25Like, in the 90s? Who knows how many guys were on steroids?

1:45:29Damn, that take away the credit of them guys.

1:45:31Because I feel like when I watched them guys, they was the truth.

1:45:35Now you tell me. The truth, but I don't think, I think, well, here, let

1:45:40me, let me use what I know for an example.

1:45:42An MMA. MMA is a better example.

1:45:45Yeah. Because in MMA, fucking for sure, I could tell you 100 % people were

1:45:51juicing. Oh. 100%. Because I knew guys who were juicing.

1:45:55Yeah. They would tell me what they were on.

1:45:57And everybody was juicing. So then they started implementing.

1:46:01Implementing. Implementing. So then the UFC starts getting sanctioned by athletic commissions and they test

1:46:06day of the fight. The day of the fight test is an intelligence test.

1:46:10It's not a steroids test.

1:46:11It's like, were you intelligent enough to cycle off right before the fight with the

1:46:17right kind of steroids so that on the weigh -in day when you get tested,

1:46:20you don't test positive? That's all it is.

1:46:23And a lot of these camps, like big MMA camps, they have scientists working in

1:46:29the camps. That's helping them cheat.

1:46:31Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Now, not so much anymore because then the UFC, it is

1:46:37scary. But the thing is, everybody was doing it.

1:46:41And then on top of that, you had an organization like Pride.

1:46:44And I don't know if you're aware of Pride, but Pride was the big organization

1:46:48in Japan. I mean, they were selling out 90 ,000 seat arenas in Japan for

1:46:55these promotions. They were fucking huge.

1:46:57And everyone was juiced to the tits.

1:47:01I don't know if everybody was, but a lot.

1:47:03I don't think Rampage was.

1:47:04Rampage told me he never took steroids.

1:47:05And I believe him. But a lot of guys were juiced up.

1:47:09And I know for a fact they were juiced up because they told me.

1:47:13They told me. And they also told me, like, Ensign Inouye, who fought for Pride,

1:47:18told me that on his contract.

1:47:20Inouye? Yeah. Ensign Inouye? Oh.

1:47:22Yeah. Like, not related. Okay.

1:47:25But same last name. Ensign, he was a great fighter, a pioneer in MMA.

1:47:30Ensign told me that on his Pride contract, it said in all capital letters, we

1:47:34do not test for steroids.

1:47:37Like, they encouraged. I had a friend of mine in Japan.

1:47:39They encouraged him to take steroids.

1:47:42See, this scared me because I got to get in a boxing ring and I

1:47:46know that people be cheating.

1:47:48Some people cheat. I know.

1:47:50It's be like low -level fighters that you'll go there and you'll be like, why

1:47:54do this guy punch way harder than a lot of people?

1:47:58Like, I don't understand it.

1:48:00And it's like, I don't know.

1:48:01Well, there's a few fighters in MMA that when steroids started being tested for, their

1:48:07body shrunk and then their power went away.

1:48:11Like, there was guys that were knocking everybody out and then also they couldn't knock

1:48:14anybody out. It's crazy. I mean, there's so many stories in MMA where you see

1:48:19fighters' physiques just deflate. Like, they're a balloon.

1:48:24They got air let out of it.

1:48:25I feel like I've seen it in boxing though.

1:48:27I see guys, they kind of like get caught with steroids.

1:48:30And then they have a fight after that and it's like...

1:48:33They look like shit. Where did the power go?

1:48:34You lost all of your power?

1:48:37That's a fact. That's a fact.

1:48:39I get it. That does happen.

1:48:40And then there's also ways that we can't figure out what they're doing yet.

1:48:47I mean, this has happened all throughout sports, right?

1:48:49This was the whole thing with Barry Bonds and the Balco scandal in baseball.

1:48:53They had developed a steroid called the Clear.

1:48:55And what the Clear was, was a steroid that was undetectable.

1:48:58They hadn't figured it out.

1:48:59But eventually they got caught.

1:49:01And so who knows what kind of shit...

1:49:03It's not like they stopped trying to innovate and come up with ways to get

1:49:07an advantage. There's definitely people doing it now.

1:49:10But the way the UFC works now...

1:49:13First they brought in USADA.

1:49:15Now they have a company called Drug Free Sport that does the same thing.

1:49:17And they just show up and test you.

1:49:20You don't get a notification, it's going to happen next Tuesday.

1:49:24So you can take a bunch of shit that clears it out of your system.

1:49:26So they just show up, knock on your door.

1:49:29Hey, it's time for a test.

1:49:31And then you got to give them...

1:49:32That's what Vada do. That's how they should do it.

1:49:33Vada do the same thing.

1:49:34They just show up and...

1:49:36Yeah, that's how they should do it.

1:49:36Urine, blood, and just any time.

1:49:40Actually, my last camp, they tested me like four or five times.

1:49:45Like, God damn. Well, that's the only way to know.

1:49:48You got to show up randomly and test guys.

1:49:51That's the only way to know.

1:49:52I'm cool with it, though, because I ain't never, ever really did anything when it

1:49:56comes to cheating. So I don't know.

1:49:58But if you go... And this is, again, not casting any disparaging remarks about Roy,

1:50:02who's one of the greatest of all time.

1:50:03But if you went back to the Ruiz fight, do you think they were testing

1:50:06him? I fucking doubt it.

1:50:08I fucking doubt it. There was no Vada testing back then.

1:50:11There was no... But then USADA was in boxing?

1:50:14No. No? I don't think so.

1:50:16No. No. I could have sworn they was in boxing.

1:50:18Okay. Let's find out. Was the Roy Jones, John Ruiz Jr.

1:50:24fight, did they utilize Vada testing?

1:50:26I don't think they did.

1:50:27USADA. USADA? USADA. Okay, USADA.

1:50:30I don't think they did.

1:50:32I don't think... I don't think they...

1:50:34Look, that was always a thing about Manny.

1:50:37Like, people always said that about Manny.

1:50:39I heard that, too. Right?

1:50:41Only reason why it was believable, though, because I never...

1:50:44You went up eight weight classes.

1:50:45I never seen that in my life.

1:50:47And kept the knockout power.

1:50:48I never seen that in my life.

1:50:50Right. I never in the history of the sport, you go from one, what, 109

1:50:55or... Whatever he started at.

1:50:57...to 154 and you're just knocking guys out.

1:51:00I know. That's crazy. And his physique, you know?

1:51:03I mean, he looks fantastic at every step of the way.

1:51:07Yeah. And he also had that dude, what did it say, was not held under

1:51:13a modern UFC -style USADA program.

1:51:15There's no record of being part of any independent year -round USADA -VADA scheme like

1:51:20we see today. So they just depended on the Athletic Commission.

1:51:24Yeah, but again, the Athletic Commission...

1:51:27It's just fight day. It's an intelligence test.

1:51:30Yeah. I mean, I will show you, show him Alistair Overeem when he fought Brock

1:51:37Lesnar, like, at the weigh -in.

1:51:39Now, Alistair Overeem is the greatest example in MMA of a guy who, when he

1:51:45was on the juice, he was unstoppable.

1:51:47Unstoppable. They called him Uber -eam when he was unstoppable because he looked like a

1:51:52comic book superhero. He was so jacked.

1:51:55And then when they started doing USADA testing, he looked completely different.

1:52:00I mean, completely different. He did.

1:52:02He got softer. He still looked good, but he didn't look like Uber -eam.

1:52:06When he... There's an image of him flexing on the scale.

1:52:10Like, look at him right there.

1:52:12Come on, son. I mean, come on.

1:52:15Look at that girl. Look at...

1:52:16Arianne's face and she's looking at his back.

1:52:19She's like what the fuck and that was I mean come on man.

1:52:25He was a fucking monster.

1:52:26He was knocking guys out.

1:52:27He was destroying everybody He was destroying everybody When he was juiced up and he

1:52:33started his career as a light heavyweight So he started his career as a 205

1:52:37pound guy who's thin and skinny.

1:52:40That's light heavyweight? Yeah, that's light heavyweight.

1:52:42The UFC's weight class are all fucked up.

1:52:44Like well, I know it's stupid They have the same names, but different weight classes.

1:52:47So like welterweight is 170 in the UFC Yeah, look at him.

1:52:51So that's the difference between how he was when he was juicing versus how he

1:52:56was Is he the difference?

1:52:57It's crazy, right? Isn't it crazy?

1:53:00It's crazy So the guy on the right was just he had to move more.

1:53:05He was still very skillful He's a very skillful kickboxer very skillful MMA fighter, but

1:53:11I mean when that guy was Fully jacked up and juiced man.

1:53:16He was almost unstoppable See that's why I'm Man, that's why I be I don't

1:53:21like that Like that's my thing.

1:53:24I do not want to get in the ring with somebody that's cheating like right

1:53:27like that's But i'm so good to where it's like even if you are cheating

1:53:33You ain't gonna hit me You won't be punching on me Imagine if you're fighting

1:53:38a guy that's at your level, but he's cheating.

1:53:42Yeah, that's the problem. Yeah, that's the problem Right now.

1:53:45There's not really anybody in your division.

1:53:47That's at that level that's like really compelling I mean other than at 135 tank,

1:53:52but imagine if there's someone That's at your level and you're pretty sure they're cheating.

1:53:57That's got to fuck with your head Honestly, I feel like it's some competitive guys

1:54:01At these weight classes they just not know right But it's some names that's like

1:54:07okay like even Lamont Roach Lamont Lamont Roach is very good that fight with Gervonta

1:54:13was crazy because That was a knockdown That's a fucking knockdown one.

1:54:18He won for sure the the fact that he took a knee and the referee

1:54:22didn't call it a knockdown That's crazy He won but to say like I'm just

1:54:28saying it is guys out there for me Lamont is a great example big fights

1:54:32and competitive fights and I don't spar Lamont So I know Lamont is he's legit.

1:54:37Yeah, I mean a lot of people did not know about him before that fight,

1:54:41but after that fight, I mean Look that sucks man because that goes down on

1:54:45his record as a loss and that's crazy.

1:54:47Was it a draw draw draw?

1:54:48That's right. It was a draw and he won the fight He clearly won.

1:54:52He won the fight. Yeah, I thought he won the fight anyway Yeah, I did

1:54:55too But the knockdown like you can't say I got shit in my hair and

1:55:00it got in my eyes and that's why I went down.

1:55:02That's crazy That was very amateurish was weird I was amateurish I didn't it was

1:55:07weird. I never saw none like that Well, it's like Gervonta just looked like his

1:55:12head wasn't totally there in that fight Yeah, maybe so do you require vata testing

1:55:19for all your fights and you have that ability to do that?

1:55:22Yes So in negotiations every you make sure that everybody's getting tested when they come

1:55:26down good for you Yeah, not bleeding.

1:55:29Yeah. Good for you, man.

1:55:31Good for you. I mean, it's we're very fortunate that we have these Testing bodies

1:55:35like that now available because again Like if they had who knows what a lot

1:55:41of fighters legacies would be if they were testing them at every step along the

1:55:45way Yeah, they get caught they get caught.

1:55:48Yeah. Yeah So with MMA it was the Wild West for a long time for

1:55:52a long time. It was the wild Wild West Everybody was doing all kinds of

1:55:56shit. I wouldn't be able to do that Like I would not be able to

1:56:00get in the ring Lose to somebody and didn't know they cheated me right because

1:56:05I don't know how I would react to that Like that would be like one

1:56:08of the moments I may crash out and I don't do crash out things So

1:56:13I might crash out about like Ain't no way you just cheated me, bro.

1:56:17Right. Ain't no way you just cheated me, bro Well, the thing is that with

1:56:21combat sports versus every other sport Is your goal is to hurt your opponent.

1:56:27Yeah And if there's a thing you're doing that's cheating that helps you hurt your

1:56:30opponent That is a different kind of cheating.

1:56:33Yeah, it's not like cheating in baseball Like who gives a fuck if you hit

1:56:36another home run? I think they should all cheat in baseball I think they should

1:56:39all get on steroids Make it more exciting like because the only thing that's exciting

1:56:44about baseball is home runs Right.

1:56:46Yeah. That's the number one thing If you got a way that you guys can

1:56:50hit more home runs Fucking give it to him.

1:56:53What are you? It's stupid.

1:56:54Yeah, it's like harmless like it's not really gonna hurt nobody Exactly So I get

1:56:58it Exactly But in boxing is like It's life or death Yeah In boxing is

1:57:03real life or death That's why I don't know how like I would react Don't

1:57:07you anybody watching this please don't cheat me I am not the guy to be

1:57:12cheated So just understand that Well, I mean whenever people are looking for shortcuts and

1:57:17people want to win There's always going to be someone that's willing to do something

1:57:21that they're not supposed to be doing That ain't it though Like this is this

1:57:25like you said is life or death like life or death So you could cheat

1:57:29and hit somebody with the wrong shot and then they dead What's the guy that

1:57:34killed somebody? Sabriel Matias Right He killed the dude And now he just got popped

1:57:40for cheating so it's like Oh he did?

1:57:41Yeah I didn't know that.

1:57:43What did he get popped for?

1:57:44I don't even know He lost recently, right?

1:57:47He lost to that Yeah, right before the loss they had popped him for cheating

1:57:49I want to say Oh Dalton Smith So he lost So he got popped and

1:57:57then he lost the next This fight?

1:57:58Yeah, they let him fight Wow Yup But it's like I wonder if he's the

1:58:03same guy after he got popped That's what I would say too Right?

1:58:07I don't know either but Because he was killing everybody Yeah, he actually Not only

1:58:12killed one guy Yeah, but he actually killed somebody But if I'm the family of

1:58:15somebody that he killed Right And now he comes out as cheating I would be

1:58:19like Hold up now, bro Can you see what Matias got popped for?

1:58:25That's great He was Who's the dude who just beat him?

1:58:29Dude just stopped him Dalton Smith You You You You You You You You Thank

1:58:30you. Yes. Yeah. That was a crazy fight.

1:58:33That was crazy. They were going to war.

1:58:35Ooh, they went to war.

1:58:36I mean, that was not an easy fight for them.

1:58:39And Matias is a dangerous dude, man.

1:58:41Yeah, that was a great performance by Dalton Smith, though.

1:58:44People don't know back in the day, when I was in the Junior Worlds, me

1:58:48and him went to the Worlds together.

1:58:50So, Osterine. Damn. Everybody's on Osterine.

1:58:53Damn. What is it about?

1:58:54I don't even know much about Osterine.

1:58:56What does Osterine do, Jamie?

1:58:57Let's find out what it does.

1:59:01Osterine Selective Androgen Receptor Modulator, designed to treat muscle -wasting conditions and osteoporosis by promoting

1:59:10muscle growth and bone density without the severe side effects of anabolic steroids.

1:59:15Popular amongst bodybuilders for enhancing muscle mass and fat loss.

1:59:19It's not approved for human consumption by the FDA, banned by WADA, and linked to

1:59:25side effects like liver toxicity, testosterone suppression, and cardiovascular risks.

1:59:31So, it helps you keep muscle and bone density.

1:59:36Yeah. Well, it makes sense that that would be a good supplement for boxers.

1:59:42What are you showing me here?

1:59:44Before or after? Look at that guy.

1:59:47The one you got your link on?

1:59:49Jesus. Well, he looks like he's faking it in the third picture.

1:59:52I just think it was...

1:59:56But, I mean, you're always going to have certain people that are going to cheat.

2:00:02I hate it. Are there any, like, world title fights that take place that don't

2:00:06have VADA testing? Uh, yeah, I think it is.

2:00:10I think people fight without it, but I don't play that.

2:00:14Yeah. I don't play that.

2:00:16I be thinking, man, I'd have sparred the dude in the gym that was, like,

2:00:19not good one time. Like, he's not good at all.

2:00:23But I'm sparring him. Like, man, this dude punch harder than everybody I've ever been

2:00:27in the ring with. And I wonder, like, dude, did that dude, do he be

2:00:31cheating? Well, some dudes just have natural God -given power, too.

2:00:36But when you, like, fat, not kind of, like, you out of shape, then you

2:00:40just punch super hard and it's slow, but it's like, boom, boom.

2:00:46I be thinking people be cheating.

2:00:48They might be, but they might just have the gift.

2:00:51Yeah, that's true. The thing about boxing is punching power, you can enhance your punching

2:00:56power, but that crazy punching power, that's a gift.

2:00:59You were born with it.

2:01:00Yeah, you were born with it.

2:01:01Like, Ernie Shaver's type punching power or Deontay.

2:01:05Wilder. Wilder. The greatest example ever.

2:01:08Oh, my God. One shot with Teddy Atlas is the best example.

2:01:12He called it the eraser.

2:01:13All the mistakes you made, it doesn't matter.

2:01:15Yeah, because I sit there and watch Wilder and I'm like, dog, it's some fights

2:01:19that I see him not punch at all until the shot is there.

2:01:24Right. And when the shot is there, he got you, it's over.

2:01:27It's crazy how hard he hits.

2:01:29It's over. I mean, he might be the greatest one -punch knockout artist in the

2:01:33history of the heavyweight division.

2:01:34I think he is. I think it's, like, no question.

2:01:36Like, he is probably the hardest puncher that ever walks.

2:01:40He's up there. I mean, Ernie Shavers back in the day.

2:01:44Punch harder than Wilder. Wow, they all said Ernie Shavers was the, like, even Ali

2:01:48said, nobody hit harder than Ernie Shavers.

2:01:50Wilder. I know, I know.

2:01:52And the thing about Wilder, too, is he's not big.

2:01:55He only weighed 209 when he fought Tyson Fury the first time.

2:01:59That right hand he got, I don't think nobody could take it.

2:02:02It's crazy. I don't think nobody could take it.

2:02:04I'm not going to lie.

2:02:05I saw Fury take it, but his size helped him.

2:02:07You know what he's like?

2:02:08He's like a giant Tommy Hearns.

2:02:10Yeah. That's what it's like.

2:02:11Yeah. Long leverage, just torque, the width of the shoulders, the snap of the punch,

2:02:17just blap. I wish he retired all night.

2:02:20I feel like he, what else is there to do?

2:02:24Like, you done did a lot in the sport.

2:02:26You done made a lot of money.

2:02:27I just wish, like, certain guys, just like, okay.

2:02:30I know. I know. What am I doing this for now?

2:02:33Well, he's going to fight Derek Chisora, which is interesting, because they're both the same

2:02:37age. They're both, they both have 50 fights.

2:02:40They're both kind of the same, but, you know.

2:02:43I like Derek Chisora. He's a cool dude, too.

2:02:45He seems cool. Yeah. Yeah.

2:02:47I mean, it's a great time for boxing.

2:02:49There's a lot of talent.

2:02:50A lot of very, very compelling matchups.

2:02:53Are they going to do a B -Val, a better B -A -V rebatch?

2:02:56Are they going to do a trilogy?

2:02:57I don't want to see that.

2:02:58A trilogy? I want to see B -Val versus Benavidez.

2:03:01Ooh. Yeah. That's the fight, like, I don't.

2:03:03Well, the fight was Benavidez versus Canelo, but that never could get made for some

2:03:08reason. I mean, that dude is just too big for Canelo, though, like, I'm not,

2:03:14I see both sides. Like, I love Benavidez, and I'm a fan of him, so

2:03:19I see the side of, like, like, fight me, bro.

2:03:23You the guy, I'm the guy, we number one, number one, let's fight.

2:03:27But then I see Canelo's side, he's like, man, this dude is 200 pounds on

2:03:31the regular. Right. And I'm nowhere near that weight, so it's like, why would I

2:03:37fight this guy? Like, I don't think it's fair.

2:03:40Like, that's how he feels, so.

2:03:41Yeah, I understand it, but Canelo went up and fought B -Val.

2:03:45But he knew, he didn't think B -Val was going to beat him.

2:03:51You don't think so? Nah.

2:03:52He didn't think, he thought he was going to beat B -Val.

2:03:54Yeah, after B -Val beat him, you think that killed the chances of the Benavidez

2:03:58fight? Yes, he knew, like, it was time, like, I cannot fight these guys that

2:04:01are super big. I love watching Benavidez fight.

2:04:04Yeah, he's the truth. He's a mauler.

2:04:06He's a killer. He is a fucking killer.

2:04:08He did something that helped my hands.

2:04:09He told me to put on the gloves that I be wearing on fight night,

2:04:12and they helped my hands, so I appreciate him, too.

2:04:15Do you do anything to strengthen your hands?

2:04:17Yeah. Do you do, like, exercises?

2:04:19Yeah, it's a, I can't tell everybody.

2:04:22I can't tell everybody. All right, tell me later.

2:04:24Yeah, I'll tell you later.

2:04:26There's a bunch of different things people do, like, buckets of rice is a big

2:04:30one. Oh, yeah, for sure.

2:04:31I do that, too. Yeah, moving your hands around in buckets.

2:04:34What is it? Benavidez targets to beat you, B -Val.

2:04:37Oh, there we go. That's the fight.

2:04:39That's the fight. That's the best versus the best.

2:04:41I think that's one of the best fights to make in the sport of boxing.

2:04:44Well, he's fighting Ramirez. He's fighting Ramirez.

2:04:45at cruiserweight right yeah and then he's gonna drop back down to light heavyweight and

2:04:49fight bival i like that yeah i want to make the biggest and the best

2:04:54fights happening fuck yeah yeah that's one of the best fights in the sport arthur

2:04:58better be of what better be of is like 40 now yeah he's the truth

2:05:01though too oh he's the truth he was a crusher forever he punched too hard

2:05:06oh my god he another one he just bangs dudes out he's got a crazy

2:05:11style yeah i mean it's funny when people sparred him they have these these stories

2:05:17yeah like he hits you and you're like what just happened yeah i could see

2:05:21it though when i watch them fight bival i'm front row and like bival like

2:05:26they catch shots on his glove and like i could see like how hard he

2:05:30was punching his glove like yeah damn i don't know how bival is taking that

2:05:36but i know and he was 39 back then yeah that's what's crazy it's like

2:05:40we missed his prime yeah unfortunately yeah we seen one fight where he fought the

2:05:46um the overseas uh uh gavard something and he beat he beat him up oh

2:05:52my god he beat him up well he was at one point in time wasn't

2:05:57he like 39 and 0 with 39 knockouts which is just nuts yeah at that

2:06:02level that is just nuts it's just nuts that he stopped everybody and it looks

2:06:07natural too it don't look like he's on like steroids no no it looks natural

2:06:12it looks very natural but didn't he get in trial caught with something he got

2:06:16caught with something yeah put that better be of um not better be of man

2:06:21i feel like i might be wrong but i feel like maybe there was a

2:06:28tainted supplement man come on not better i think so i might be wrong yeah

2:06:37you got wrong i apologize you got to be wrong for better be of this

2:06:40was 2024 is that atypical yeah this is what it was atypical drug test result

2:06:47adverse findings may have threatened now what does that mean what does it say conor

2:06:51mcgregor okay conor mcgregor screaming and yelling uh what does it say what did he

2:06:57get caught with um atypical finding is not a violation requires more testing better be

2:07:03of underwent those examinations at vada request vada reported negative results from the follow -up

2:07:08test so what was the positive test hmm what does that mean yeah what do

2:07:16that mean oh here it goes he received atypical findings for human growth hormone and

2:07:225d androstanadiol both occur naturally in the body when an atypical finding is received further

2:07:30testing is required to determine if an athlete naturally produces the substance in his body

2:07:36his or her body at a greater level than the average or elevated levels which

2:07:40were signs of anti -doping interesting okay so it could just be that he just

2:07:45has naturally high levels of hgh and this 5d androstanadiol so that might be what

2:07:55it is or he was cheating could be some sneaky shit you know i mean

2:08:02did you ever see the documentary icarus there's a great documentary about uh the the

2:08:12drug scandal in the olympics in russia and so this was what was this 2016

2:08:19which was it jamie was that the olympics i was at yeah i was there

2:08:24what uh and they banned the whole russian team exactly i thought that was 2020

2:08:29though um they banned the russian team the follow -up olympics i believe because of

2:08:34the 2016 so this guy brian fogel did this documentary it's a crazy documentary and

2:08:39the documentary was not supposed to be 2014 winter olympics 2014 winter olympics so what

2:08:45happened was brian fogel was doing a documentary so he he was a he's a

2:08:50cyclist and a documentary guy and so he said i want to do a um

2:08:55a cycling event a race completely natural and then i want to do it on

2:09:00steroids and i want to document it all and then you know make this documentary

2:09:05on what is the difference and just show because cycling is a very dirty sport

2:09:09yeah like tour de france those guys they put engines in their fucking bike to

2:09:14make it like easier to pedal they do a lot of crazy shit blood doping

2:09:18so he does this naturally and then he gets this guy um uh what was

2:09:24his name again gregory rechenko who was rechenkov who was the head of the russian

2:09:32anti -doping federation but it was really a doping federation yeah so what they were

2:09:37doing at the time was so he starts working with this guy this guy's telling

2:09:43him what steroids to take and how to get better at the same time the

2:09:48russians get caught like while he's filming all this and that guy has to leave

2:09:52the country and that guy spills the beans and he tells them exactly what they

2:09:56did and what they did was they took the clean urine they made a hole

2:09:59in the wall so the place where they stored all the urine they made a

2:10:03hole in the wall where they could swap out the russian urine and swap it

2:10:08in for for good urine and they found these micro abrasions on these supposedly unopenable

2:10:15jars yeah and so when they looked at it with a microscope they said these

2:10:19they figured out a way to open these jars so they would pass it through

2:10:24the hole in the wall open the jar empty it out put in clean piss

2:10:28and give it back to them so essentially the entire team was doped up yeah

2:10:34so basically that's why they say in the olympics they wasn't sure if russia was

2:10:39going to be able to compete right exactly and so in brazil the follow -up

2:10:43olympics the next olympics the entire team couldn't compete the cycling team no the entire

2:10:49russian team all the so the cycling thing was just this guy that was doing

2:10:54this documentary and he was using the head of the russian anti -doping agency to

2:10:58help him do it pup like Openly.

2:11:00So it was just for a documentary.

2:11:02It wasn't like trying to win a race and cheat.

2:11:04He was like saying, let's see what you would give me and how much better

2:11:08my performance would be. So in the middle of doing all this, this scandal gets

2:11:13exposed. And this guy who he's using is at the head of the scandal.

2:11:17And then this guy tells him everything.

2:11:19And it's nuts. Russia did compete in the Olympics though.

2:11:22They did compete in 2016.

2:11:25They must have competed in 2020 then.

2:11:28Well, I think they allowed individual athletes to compete, whatever the subsequent Olympics was.

2:11:35But they didn't allow them to represent Russia.

2:11:38Okay, yeah, because it was a guy from Russia in my weight class.

2:11:42Oh, yeah? In the 2016 Olympics.

2:11:45He definitely was kind of strong too.

2:11:48Well, the Russians, I mean, they were the beginning of all this stuff.

2:11:54Like the Eastern European women, weightlifting.

2:11:56Oh, so they came up with the cheats.

2:11:59Well, they figured it out.

2:12:00They figured it out early on.

2:12:02They've been doing it a long ass time.

2:12:05Yeah. So who knows with Better Be Ever or any of these guys.

2:12:10You've got to always assume that without something like VADA or Drug Free Sport or

2:12:17USADA, there's always going to be someone who's trying to figure out a way to

2:12:21get a competitive advantage. Yeah, I hate it.

2:12:24It's gross. I hate it.

2:12:26It comes with it though.

2:12:27Yeah, it comes with it.

2:12:28It is what it is.

2:12:30So anything else you want to cover before we wrap this up?

2:12:35Nah, I ain't got nothing else.

2:12:36I think we're good. Listen, man.

2:12:37Congratulations on everything. It's been beautiful to watch you fight.

2:12:40I'm a giant fan and I'm happy to see after the Lopez fight, you get

2:12:45all the respect and the credit that you deserve and I can't wait to see

2:12:48what happens next. Thank you.

2:12:50I appreciate you and I appreciate you giving me the opportunity to come on the

2:12:53podcast. One of the best podcasts in the world.

2:12:57I appreciate you. Thank you very much.

2:12:59My honor. All right. Bye, everybody.

2:13:01Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye.

2:13:09Bye.

JRE MMA Show #175 with Shakur Stevenson