The Tudor Dixon Podcast: Elizabeth Smart on Survival, Faith, and Healing After Trauma
4/10/202641 mincomplete
0:00This is an iHeart Podcast.
0:02Guaranteed human. Welcome to the Tudor Dixon Podcast.
0:07You probably all remember the story of Elizabeth Smart.
0:11You remember the story of her being taken from her bed in the middle of
0:16the night in 2002. I think we were all stuck by the TVs hoping that
0:22this beautiful little girl would be returned home and yet believing that nothing could possibly
0:30be that you couldn't possibly see her again in this world.
0:34And yet we did. And now I get the pleasure of speaking with this incredible
0:39survivor today. Elizabeth Smart, welcome to the podcast.
0:43Thank you. Thank you for having me.
0:45Absolutely. I like I said, we all watched your story, of course, and you have
0:51spoken out. I've been so impressed with the way that you have spoken out since
0:55the abduction and the fact that you work so hard for people who have experienced
1:01sexual abuse or abduction and any type of exploitation.
1:06Like I said, you truly are an inspiration to us.
1:10Oh, thank you very much.
1:12I mean, I never imagined this would be my life.
1:16I obviously never imagined I would be kidnapped either.
1:20But looking back, I'm not sorry that it happened to me because it's given me
1:26so much purpose and passion in my life that I would like to think I
1:31would have had. But truthfully, I don't think I would have had otherwise.
1:36You know, there's always something special about, you know, as I was watching your Amazon
1:42documentary, I was watching through and you talk about your experience.
1:48And obviously, we see kind of a reenactment of what happened with your abductors and
1:54your kidnappers. And something struck me in that.
1:59And that is the strength of your faith at 14.
2:02I told you before we got on this podcast, my middle daughter is 14.
2:05So I have 16, 14 and two 12 year old daughters.
2:09And I so, of course, as I watched this and read your book, I think
2:15of my girls and I think about what they would go through and how they
2:19act today. And you were so strong at that age.
2:24And it struck me as I was watching your documentary that you were saying, you
2:28know, people would ask me why I wouldn't have run.
2:31And it seemed like that was kind of a theme throughout the entire retelling of
2:38the story is almost that you were trying to say, you know, you have to
2:42understand what it's like. I looked at that story and I was like, what intelligence
2:47and calm for you to do what you did and be looking for that that
2:53moment when you you could escape and knowing that your family was still there, like
2:58your family seemed to be a strong foundation for you throughout the whole thing.
3:02Absolutely. My family was the one thing I felt like I could rely on because
3:08I didn't, you know, sexual violence, abuse, rape.
3:12It was not talked about when I was a kid, at least not in any
3:19of the conversations. I ever had none of the lessons I ever listened to growing
3:25up. It was just something that was not talked about.
3:29And there was very much a sense of shame around it.
3:34You know, when you like went to maturation or when you first learned what sex
3:39was in school, nobody talked about the difference between like enthusiastic consent versus abuse versus
3:49rape. And so in my mind, it was all very much the same thing.
3:54And I so when I would think about the possibility of being rescued, I didn't
4:02know how people would respond to me.
4:05I didn't know if I would be accepted back into polite society or if I
4:11would be kind of cast out or just be on the outside, kind of like
4:15a pariah. And I, yeah, I just didn't know how I was going to be
4:19treated. But the one thing that I really believed and felt and knew in my
4:23heart was that my family would accept me.
4:26And ultimately, I felt like if nobody else accepted me, but my family did, that
4:31would be worth surviving for.
4:33There's a moment in the documentary where you are out so so that people know
4:37when they took you, he took you in the middle of the night.
4:40He took you from your house, but you weren't far from your house.
4:43You were out in the woods.
4:45They were camping. They kept you out there camping.
4:47There was a one night when you were outside and you heard people yelling your
4:52name. I mean, was that like, was that like, oh, gosh, they're still looking like
4:58mileage wise. I wasn't that far.
5:01I was less than four miles.
5:02I think I was about three and a half miles from my home.
5:06But it was incredibly difficult to get to.
5:09I mean, I hiked back there recently with my brother and sister -in -law.
5:14And like as an adult now who I would say, not that I was in
5:19bad shape back then. I, you know, as a kid, I ran around all the
5:22time. But like someone who's like run marathons now and works out.
5:25day. It was a struggle to get back there.
5:28It's very, very difficult to get back there.
5:30So it wasn't just like a little walk in the park.
5:34But yes, I and at the time, I actually I think I was so pumped
5:39full of adrenaline and fear, I didn't realize exactly how far or near I was
5:46in correlation to my actual home.
5:48And I remember hearing my uncle's voice or what I thought was my uncle's voice.
5:54And I remember just being hopeful that I would be found.
5:59I remember being scared that he would come into camp and then he would be
6:07killed because my captor was right there and he was pulling out his knife.
6:10And he was like, do you recognize this knife?
6:13And I mean, of course, I recognized it had a held to my throat.
6:16And then he turned to me and he was like, if you yell back, if
6:22anyone enters this campsite, they'll be killed and it'll be your fault because you called
6:28out. And so as now as an adult looking back, I have so much compassion
6:35for myself because I was a child.
6:38Of course, I didn't have like the logic or the.
6:44I don't know. I don't know many adults that would be able to yell out
6:49in that situation, though, either.
6:50I mean, even at this point in my life, I think I'm so protective of
6:55the people that I love that I would rather see myself hurt than watch someone
6:59hurt someone I love. Absolutely.
7:02I feel the same way.
7:04And I felt that as a as a kid, I felt like I had to
7:06protect my family. I felt like I had to protect my uncle.
7:09I felt like I had to protect anyone who might possibly find the camp because
7:14I didn't want to be responsible for anyone's death.
7:18And that's so much on a young child.
7:21I think that's what people need to remember is that you were 14 years old.
7:25Your faith. That to me was what struck me so hard.
7:30There's a point when you talk about it.
7:32It was Thanksgiving. You were you were starving most of the time.
7:36I mean, there was this was such a madman.
7:38There's no food. There was no water.
7:40He would leave the camp and leave you with his wife, who was sounds like
7:46not only horrible to you, but had been horrible her whole life.
7:50So she these were genuinely nasty, horrible.
7:55Devil, I mean, evil demon people that that had taken you.
8:00And you talk about him coming back and saying, oh, there's a Thanksgiving dinner and
8:06we can go get this Thanksgiving dinner.
8:08And I was so impressed because we are told in the Bible to be thankful
8:13in all things. And I oftentimes think, you know, even through the hardest times, like,
8:20look at the good look at the good that God has provided to me.
8:23But I am an adult.
8:24And I think about what would my kids have I set my kids up for
8:29if there is some tragic situation that they're able to see God and what God
8:34has given them through that.
8:35And you you did. I mean, you said that night, just like every Thanksgiving, I
8:41went through all the things that I'm thankful for.
8:43And then I did that every night between then and Christmas and went through all
8:46the things you were thankful for.
8:48That was the most mature attitude and the most the strongest foundation and faith that
8:56I could I've ever seen in modern day.
8:58I was so impressed. Well, initially, when I was first kidnapped, I remember thinking I
9:04mean, I remember thinking that first day that this was the worst.
9:08This was rock bottom. Nothing could be worse than what I was experiencing in that
9:12moment. But then day two came and I was forced to go naked all day.
9:17And that seemed worse. And I remember that day thinking this is the worst.
9:22Nothing could possibly be worse than this.
9:24And then the next day came and he was like, you need to learn how
9:28to properly make love to your husband.
9:30So you're going to watch Wanda and I have sex and then you're going to
9:35have to perform. And that seemed like the absolute worst.
9:39And it was just like, continually hitting these new lows of horribleness of nightmares.
9:48And every time that this new low would happen.
9:52I mean, it was just like a new level of devastation.
9:56And it was just I was just sinking deeper and deeper and deeper into just
10:02hopelessness. And I just remember feeling like I can't give up.
10:07I am still 30 plus years younger than them.
10:12I mean, just logically, I will outlive them.
10:15I mean, should they not kill me?
10:16Should I, you know, should I not starve to death?
10:18Should the elements not take me out?
10:21I should still outlive them.
10:25And if I outlive them, I would like to make it back home.
10:30But I will never make it back home if I just keep thinking that this
10:35is the worst. So kind of from early on, any situation I found myself in,
10:41I would try to think of things that would make that situation worse, because then
10:48I could be grateful that it wasn't that bad.
10:50I could be grateful for whatever the situation.
10:53was. And that helped me.
10:58It's such a lesson no matter what.
11:00I mean, no matter what hardship you're going through is to constantly look toward what
11:06good can come, what good can come.
11:09And in that idea that you can be, you could be back with your family
11:13one day. There had to have been, I mean, you were gone for nine months.
11:15So there had to have been a point when you started to go, I don't
11:19know. I don't know if I can ever, if I can ever get back there.
11:23And what does life look like with them?
11:25There were moments where you really didn't know if you'd live through the night.
11:29There was one I want to bring up.
11:32You're in California and it's a drought.
11:36It seems like there's no water.
11:37You were constantly searching for water.
11:40You didn't have enough to drink.
11:41It was, it was horrible.
11:43And he leaves, he gets put in prison or jail, I guess, for, for a
11:48week. And you and Wanda are there and you say that you thought that might
11:53be the end that you, that was the one time when you said, maybe I'm
11:56not, I've been looking so forward to seeing my family again, but I'm so thirsty.
12:00I'm so hungry. This might not happen.
12:02And then there's a rain and you gave that glory to God in that moment.
12:09I remember, I mean, I've been asked so many times over the years in that
12:14situation, couldn't you have just run away?
12:17Wasn't that like the perfect situation to run away?
12:20But I was so dehydrated and just so weak from not eating that I remember
12:26standing up and just feeling like I was going to pass out.
12:29I mean, both Wanda Barzee and I were just lying on the ground because we
12:33just did not have the energy to stand up and move around.
12:37And I absolutely remember just feeling like this is the end.
12:42I mean, I can't believe I have survived this long.
12:46I guess about that point was, it was about eight months.
12:50I had survived eight months only to die of starvation and dehydration.
12:58I remember just almost laughing about it because it just seemed the irony of it
13:03just, just seems so pathetic.
13:06And I remember then it did start raining and it did absolutely seem like a
13:15gift from God because I mean, we would, I think we would have died without
13:20it. It seemed like an answer to blessing, to answer to prayer.
13:24And I mean, I remember running outside and we stretched tarps to catch as much
13:31water as we possibly could.
13:33And I remember, I mean, just the water tasting so good.
13:38And then even the next couple of days, we had been able to pour the
13:44water into these gallon containers.
13:46But I also remember eventually seeing what looked like, I mean, things were, looked like
13:52they were growing in the water.
13:54But even then, I mean, I was just grateful for something to drink.
13:58Let's take a quick commercial break.
14:00We'll continue next on the Tudor Dixon podcast.
14:05And it's such a stark difference, obviously, from how you grew up.
14:09You had a beautiful home, a beautiful, strong family.
14:13That's, to me, that's a worst nightmare scenario for your family.
14:19I mean, for you, but also the trauma that your entire family goes through.
14:23Your sister was in bed with you.
14:24And there's a lot of pressure on her during this time that you're gone.
14:28Like, who was it? Can you tell us?
14:31And it was a God moment that she remembered too.
14:35And suddenly that name came back to her.
14:38But I think about your parents.
14:41From the outside, as we were watching this, and I know many people have told
14:45you this from the outside, you see the media narrative start to take hold.
14:49It's like, oh, the father must be involved.
14:52There must be something weird happening.
14:54It's just such a bizarre scenario that someone would come into your house and take
14:59you out of your bed.
15:00You know, it's so hard.
15:01And there was so little evidence of what happened.
15:04And it was so hard for the country to wrap their minds around.
15:07And I think the reason it was so hard was because none of us want
15:11that to ever happen. So it couldn't happen.
15:13It's easier to say it couldn't happen than to admit that it did happen.
15:18What was that like coming back home?
15:21They were obviously, I mean, as parents, they must have felt so many emotions of
15:27failure and shame and just brokenness.
15:32And you kind of have to rebuild each other.
15:35But you're 14 or 15 when you got home, right?
15:38Yeah. Yeah, I was 15 when I got home.
15:41What was that like? Well, there's so many things you just said that I want
15:45to respond to. I mean, number one, you kind of describe this mindset that this
15:51was so terrible. You don't want to think that it can happen to you.
15:54And I actually think that is a very dangerous mindset because it stops us from
15:58having conversations that are important to have.
16:02I mean, the national average that we know of that are cases reported, it's about
16:07one in five women are sexually abused.
16:09In Utah, where I live, it's even worse.
16:11It's about one in three women are sexually abused in their lifetime.
16:16And honestly, I think it's much higher in both.
16:20to have those. Thank you, national average.
16:22And Utah, these are just the cases that are reported because we know so many
16:26don't go reported. And these are very important conversations to be had.
16:32I mean, this is very important safety information to be had.
16:35Sorry, not to go down a rabbit hole, but just to give an example.
16:37No, no, I think this is important.
16:39This is what, like I said, I do think that we like to say it's
16:44impossible because we don't want it to happen to us.
16:47And then we are unprepared.
16:49Exactly. And we have so much safety education, which I think is great.
16:54I'm a fan of all safety education.
16:56But just to give you an example, everybody knows what you should do if you
16:59catch on fire, stop, drop and roll.
17:02And I don't know the exact statistic, like I've been lazily looking.
17:09And I haven't found an exact statistic.
17:11But as I've gone out and spoken, I'll usually ask people to raise their hand
17:16in the audience if they've ever used stop, drop and roll.
17:19And there might be an audience of two or three hundred and maybe one person
17:22will raise their hand, maybe two, maybe two people will raise their hand.
17:27It is not a lot of people.
17:29But we all know it.
17:30But we all know it.
17:32And then I don't ask because I feel like I don't want anyone to feel
17:36like they need to share something they're not ready to share.
17:39I don't want anyone to look at anyone else differently or anything.
17:42I don't want to put anyone in a sensitive situation.
17:45But I could ask how many of you have been sexually abused?
17:50And I feel like we'd see at least a third of the room raise their
17:54hand. And yet we really don't talk about these issues.
17:57So this is that mindset is very dangerous for this reason.
18:01We need to be having a lot of conversations.
18:03And then kind of continuing on with your question.
18:07It is, unfortunately, it is the norm that when a child goes missing, it typically
18:15is the parents or someone very close to the family.
18:20It is really more of the exception that it's a stranger.
18:23And so as heartbreaking and as difficult as it is, my parents were the, it
18:34was not unreasonable for the police to look at my parents.
18:38And since that time, I mean, anytime my dad has ever spoken to a family
18:43who has had a child kidnapped, he will always say, just cooperate with the police.
18:49They are going to look at you.
18:51You go in for whatever questioning, whatever lie detector test that you need to go
18:56in for so that the focus can remain on finding your child and bringing your
19:00child home. So that, I mean, as difficult and miserable as that is, that is
19:08kind of that first line of, of questioning.
19:12And I mean, at the time when I was rescued, I remember just being flabbergasted
19:16that anyone could think it was my, my family, that it could be my parents
19:19or my brothers. I mean, that just seems so ridiculous to me because my family
19:24had never hurt me. My dad had never hurt me.
19:27My brothers had never hurt me.
19:28I mean, they teased me like we were normal siblings, but like they'd never abused
19:34me or like threatened me or anything like that.
19:38So that just seems so ridiculous to me when I got home.
19:43And now as a parent myself, you know, when I first got home, I thought,
19:48well, come on, you guys were the lucky ones.
19:51Like you were together. You weren't stuck on this mountainside with these monsters.
19:57Me, I was by myself.
20:00You did not have it as bad as what I experienced.
20:03But now as a parent myself and looking at my children, I mean, there just
20:08isn't anything that I wouldn't do to protect my children or to prevent them from
20:14being hurt or from going through what I went through.
20:17I mean, I would go through it again in a heartbeat if it meant that
20:20my children never had to go through it.
20:23And so now as a parent myself, I have so much more compassion for my
20:27own parents and what they went through while I was gone.
20:32Is she out of prison now, Wanda?
20:35She is, yeah. Has she ever tried to reach out to you?
20:40No, and I'm okay with never talking to her again.
20:43I would imagine. Yeah, I would never want to either.
20:47She had a history of abuse before that.
20:51So she's obviously a dangerous person, very mentally ill.
20:57And I don't even want to give her that excuse because I think it's just
21:03so, it was so incredibly evil what they did.
21:07So you came home and you reconnected with your family.
21:12Did you know, did you have any idea, like, had you a sense that things
21:17were coming close or, I mean, you had no access to the news or anything?
21:21How did they finally, how did they finally know where you were?
21:26Well, my, so my captor, Brian Mitchell, he would go down into Salt Lake and
21:34when he'd come back, sometimes he would bring newspapers or he even brought back a
21:41missing flyer once of me.
21:43And he would say things like, oh, all of Salt Lake is looking for you.
21:48whole world is looking for you, but no one will ever find you because I
21:53have you. And I would say that just added to this sense of this feeling
22:02that he was invincible and this feeling that maybe I wouldn't escape.
22:09Maybe I wouldn't be rescued because he just seemed to get away with everything that
22:15he wanted. He could do anything and he was never getting caught.
22:19He was never getting stopped.
22:21And so my sister had that moment where she's like, I know who did it.
22:28She told my dad. My dad told the police.
22:33The police really didn't think it was this Emmanuel.
22:36That was the name that Brian Mitchell went by at the time.
22:39And they were stuck on this other person that they thought, this Richard Recy, who
22:44had done some work for my parents.
22:47And he actually ended up dying in prison.
22:49And the police were like, oh, you know, the secret of Elizabeth's disappearance has gone
22:55to his grave with him.
22:56We'll never find her. But my dad was insistent that, you know, Mary Catherine says,
23:00it's this other guy. Like, we need to look into him.
23:04And they were like, oh, we don't really think so.
23:06My dad's like, let me do like bring in a sketch artist.
23:09Let me at least try to tell you what he looks like.
23:12Let's just try. They brought in a sketch artist.
23:15My dad had a sketch, like did a sketch of him.
23:19And the police were just like, don't release this.
23:22You know, we'll look into it.
23:23We'll consider it. Well, my dad was good friends with John Walsh at the time
23:27from America's Most Wanted. He called John up and was like, Mary Catherine thinks she
23:32knows who it is. We had we went down to the police station.
23:37They did a they did a sketch of him.
23:39We have this sketch of him.
23:40And John was just like, you have to go public with it.
23:43You have to follow absolutely every lead that you can find.
23:47Never give up. And actually, it was John Walsh that ended up releasing that sketch
23:52on Larry King Live. And when that sketch was released and the name Emmanuel, one
24:00of Brian Mitchell's family members actually saw it and called the police and said, I
24:07think I know who you're looking for.
24:08And that is what led to my rescue, because then they started looking for Brian
24:16Mitchell. And people recognized him when we eventually made it back to Utah and I
24:21was rescued. And you made it back to Utah because you had kind of figured
24:26out their language, their way of communication and their belief system and their belief system
24:31was this like false prophet.
24:32I hear from the Lord.
24:34And you were to me, this is so impressive at your young age that you
24:39were able to use that and kind of use psychology against him to say, you
24:45know, this is you should go back to Utah.
24:47Had you not gone back to Utah, do you think you would have been found?
24:51I don't know. I don't know.
24:53I don't know if I would have been found.
24:56Because towards the, I mean, the last month, the last, I don't know, five weeks
25:08that we were in California, I was not allowed to go out into civilization, the
25:17general population anymore. He was just keeping me hidden up in the mountains there.
25:23And so I think he was feeling more wary, even though I don't think he
25:30knew that his sketch had been released.
25:32I don't think he knew any of that.
25:34I just think he was feeling more wary.
25:37Plus, he had also tried to kidnap another young girl at that time, because he
25:41had this whole plan that he was going to kidnap seven young girls.
25:45And I was just the first.
25:46And he had actually attempted it.
25:48And he had not been successful.
25:50But I think it had kind of shooken him a bit.
25:53And so he, he was just keeping me out of sight.
25:57And so had we remained in California, do I think I would have been found?
26:03I don't know. I don't know.
26:05If I, if I was found, I don't think it would have, I think it
26:08would have been much later.
26:09I think it would have been a much longer time period that I was held
26:12captive for. There were, and maybe, and you don't know if you would have lived
26:17through that, because you were, you had had some experiences where you were so close
26:21to starvation and dehydration. And these experiences that you had, where God just provided in
26:29a moment when you felt like you were just overwhelmed at the last moment of,
26:33of your ability to hang on.
26:36And the rain was one.
26:37There was another time when there had been no water and you woke up to
26:40a full cup of water next to where you were sleeping, which you said was
26:44just absolutely impossible. And I do believe that God sustains you and has a plan
26:49for you. And your plan is to talk about this and to encourage people.
26:55And the way you speak about it is so impressive to me that you are
26:57able to say, we all, we all go through different trauma.
27:01You don't really discriminate against trauma, which I think is amazing because I think you've
27:07been through one of the worst and yet you're so welcoming to everybody who feels
27:13as though like I've gone through something really hard.
27:15You talked about this with a friend.
27:16and um she said but your heart is so much harder than my heart and
27:21you i love how you were like no everybody has to go through things and
27:27we have to come back out of those things and you're just you're just such
27:31a welcoming leader of people who have gone through hard in life but you one
27:37of the things that you said i just want to get into really quickly one
27:40of the things that you said was that you didn't think that you would ever
27:44be able to to survive your parents breaking up because your family had been kind
27:48of that rock that you the example that the people who gave you faith the
27:52rock that you were waiting to get back to and then you you came back
27:55and they were the ones who helped to build you back up um but your
27:59father called you one morning which also is just kind of interesting timing because of
28:06what you'd been through in the wee hours of the morning in your life to
28:10get a call that was a pretty devastating call what was that like i mean
28:14when i first saw his phone number pop up i thought my mom was in
28:17the hospital i thought something had happened i thought i mean i would say any
28:23early morning phone call now these days i'm like what happened like who's in trouble
28:28who is hurt um so i definitely had that thought in my mind and then
28:35i answered it and i mean it was just like word vomit my dad couldn't
28:40get the words out quick enough and that's when he told me that um he
28:44and my mom were getting a divorce that he was gay and none of these
28:47things i mean like you know i'd seen my parents disagree but then i'd always
28:54turn around and you know seeing them get past their disagreements holding hands you know
29:02i'd seen them kissing like they to me they just seem like a normal couple
29:08you know you have your disagreements you work through and then you know you move
29:12on and so i didn't ever think that there was really any real chance of
29:19them divorcing um and i certainly certainly never had a clue that my dad was
29:27gay i mean i remember i remember i i remember just thinking i'd misheard and
29:34i remember saying wait wait can you say that again but i mean i think
29:38that was such a like he was so anxious about how the phone call was
29:44gonna go um he just kept going and i think he was probably full of
29:49adrenaline at that time probably really scared of my reaction and i just remember in
29:55that moment being like i'm not even sure how to respond but no matter what
30:04he's still my dad and i still love him and that was really the gist
30:10of the phone call how old were you at that point um i was i
30:15mean that was about seven years ago so i was 31 31 i mean i
30:18just had my my last baby my last baby was a month old i mean
30:24yeah i guess it was literally this time seven years ago that's a lot to
30:30think about because you knew in that moment that this was bigger than just your
30:34parents right splitting up this was your dad was also going to have to leave
30:38the church and that seemed to be a huge part of your life i mean
30:41you went on a mission for the church you've you're the church is the church
30:47is what's guided you it seems like forever i mean it certainly was a huge
30:52part of my life and yeah it felt like just like a bomb going off
31:01i mean having all three of those things you know my dad saying he's divorced
31:05my mom my dad saying he was gay my dad saying he was leaving the
31:08church i was just like oh my gosh what like my whole life like you've
31:15been the one that's like okay like we need to go to church like oh
31:20you know it's saturday let's you know i signed us up to go clean the
31:24church to go prepare the chapel for sunday like you know like oh it's the
31:29church's fun run or it's like the church's memorial day breakfast or like he was
31:34very much um i mean both my parents were just very heavily involved and they
31:40always stressed the importance of faith my entire my entire childhood my my entire life
31:47and so it it was yeah i i just it was i a shock but
31:54your family is still very close um you know our family has changed i mean
32:00how could you not change and holidays are different and birthdays are different and um
32:07it's it's been an interesting uh navigation let's take a quick commercial break we'll continue
32:15next on the tudor dixon podcast you have been put through major trials and yet
32:24you have taken them and turned them into something incredible and you go out and
32:29you speak and you encourage and you you are a light i mean and and
32:33some people will say that they can see a light around people and i really
32:37do feel like you have that light of the lord shining through you and and
32:42you had to to overcome you and and and and and and and and and
32:43and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and
32:43and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and
32:43and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and
32:43and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and
32:43and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and
32:43and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and
32:43and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and
32:43and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and
32:43and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and
32:43and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and
32:44and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and
32:44and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and
32:44and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and
32:44and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and
32:44and Thank you. this, but you still you continue to go out and talk.
32:46You have a memoir coming out.
32:47I want to talk to people about that.
32:49Tell us about your book.
32:50And you have another movie coming out on Netflix, which I am anxious to watch.
32:56And I want to tell you that I am so impressed with your story.
33:00I mean, as I'm listening to you talk, I'm getting chills because I can just
33:03feel the power of your spirit.
33:05It is so strong. And I want my girls to know your story because it
33:11is what we would say is some of the lowest parts of life.
33:16And yet I am so impressed with who you are even through that.
33:20So tell us a little bit about the documentary and tell us about the book.
33:23Okay. So this is my new book and it's different.
33:29So this is my third book and it's different from my others because my first
33:35book really was the story of what happened.
33:37my second book. I took the questions that I was most asked.
33:43And then I went out and I found other people that I really admired and
33:46I got their answers and tried to write a book around these questions and the
33:52answers of other people. So even if people didn't connect with me, they would connect
33:56with someone else who I'd interviewed.
33:58And then this last book, Detours, that is coming out on December 16th, is really
34:06more about my healing journey and kind of the rest stops or steps along the
34:11way. And I called it detours because I think there are so many comparisons about
34:17life is a highway or life is a journey or, you know, like life is
34:22your, like a path through the world.
34:25There's so many comparisons like that.
34:27And I was just thinking, we all have these moments in our lives where we
34:33go through something and it seems to throw that road off course.
34:37And you just can't imagine how you're going to get through it.
34:42So I talk about these different rest stops along the way of how I got
34:47through it. And I mean, if anything, this book is meant to be a friend.
34:53It's meant to be just a help.
34:55It's not meant to say, well, you needed to do this.
34:58Or if you do all these things, you'll be better in six months.
35:02Because everyone's healing journey is going to be different.
35:06And you need to find what works for you.
35:09But it's, but I'm hoping that this book provides hope that everyone can heal, and
35:16that everyone can find their way forward.
35:18And, you know, probably the first step or the first rest stop along the way
35:24is knowing that it's okay to grieve the path that you feel lost to you.
35:30So for example, you know, with my parents' divorce, grieving the fact that my family
35:36would never be the same, that the holidays would never be the same, that to
35:40some extent, my family would always feel incomplete because either my mom would be missing
35:46or my dad would be missing.
35:48And that was something that was very sad to me.
35:54I mean, my parents had been my foundation, my whole life.
35:58And if I ever felt like I wasn't strong enough, or if I was ever
36:01struggling, they were the first people I called.
36:04And so just realizing that it was going to be different, that was something that
36:10was very sad. And even to this day, you know, when there are special events,
36:14there's still an element of sadness because it's just different.
36:20And there have absolutely been times where I'm like, this all would have just been
36:24easier if they had never divorced, or this would just be easier if they were
36:27still together. But I also recognize that that wouldn't have been healthy for either one
36:32of them. Their split was something that needed to happen, but it doesn't make it,
36:40as their child, it doesn't make it any easier for me.
36:46I love the fact that you say life is like a journey on a road,
36:51and we have these detours.
36:52Your detours are major detours, and yet we all have them.
36:56You are so right. It's something that we sometimes struggle to look at.
37:00I remember sitting in a Bible study with a group of women, and we were
37:04young, and we were talking about the fact that this would happen, and the Bible
37:08tells us this will happen.
37:10And there were some in the group who said, I don't want it to ever
37:13happen to me, and I don't want to hear that.
37:16And I remember at the time, I had just lost a baby, and I thought,
37:20wow, I didn't want it to happen to me.
37:22They're like, you don't get a choice.
37:24And I think that is the strong message of this book, and I would love
37:28to see it in book clubs.
37:29I would love to see it in schools, because what you said about having never
37:34learned about rape, having never learned about these things, I don't think many people want
37:39to hear the ugly, and yet we will go through it without a guide.
37:43And this book is preparing you or helping you through, whether you have gone through
37:47something hard or not. The way the book talks to you, it's written to talk
37:52to you as well. That's what I kind of love about it, is that I
37:55feel like we're having a conversation as I'm reading the book.
37:58You're like, are you still with me?
38:00And that was so creative and so enticing, because we do all go through hard.
38:08There's no avoiding hard. You've been through some of the most hard.
38:11And yet you're walking alongside of all of us, just like a character right out
38:16of the Bible, just like in Esther, which is so impressive.
38:20I mean, I see his footsteps alongside you, your entire journey.
38:25And that's so inspiring for me and for everybody else who is looking to say,
38:30who is leading me? And that's the Lord.
38:33I mean, we've all only experienced our own worst trauma.
38:38We've all only experienced our own worst sadness, and each one of us knows how
38:44bad that feels. And no matter what we've experienced, we can feel compassion, we can
38:50feel empathy, we can feel understanding for the people around us, but we will never
38:55feel what they have felt.
38:57We will never feel exactly their emotions.
39:00And so I think it is so important to have compassion and understanding and grace
39:07for everyone around us, because I've never met someone who hasn't had a bad day.
39:13I've never met someone who hasn't gone through something.
39:17And, you know, maybe as you're younger, maybe it's just the heartache of a breakup,
39:20or maybe it's just the disappointment of doing poorly on a test.
39:26I mean, it doesn't always have to be big, huge, traumatic things, but we've all
39:32felt pain, and sometimes we think we can never come back from it.
39:36And as much as I would love to walk beside, I mean, physically walk beside
39:41everybody, I mean, I am just one person, and I don't know everything.
39:45I mean, I'm still trying to figure out life and how to be the best
39:52person that I can be.
39:53And so I feel like this book really just tries to help, just tries to
40:01give what I've learned. It's great.
40:05It's absolutely great. It would be a great Christmas present for people who have anybody
40:10in their life that has gone through trauma.
40:13But honestly, it is just a friend.
40:15It is a guide. It's for anybody who loves reading and loves to hear about
40:19life. And you take us on a lot of detours, but it is amazing.
40:24So it's detours, and tell us where people can get it.
40:27So you can get it from ElizabethSmart .com.
40:30You can order it directly from my website.
40:31You can order it off of Amazon.
40:34And those are both great places to order it.
40:37Thank you so much. Elizabeth Smart, you are an amazing woman.
40:40I am so impressed with you.
40:41I will never forget your story and hearing it.
40:44But you hear the story, and oftentimes when this happens, you don't get to see
40:50the follow -up. And you are amazing.
40:53So thank you for what you do every day.
40:55Thank you so much. Thank you for having me.
40:57Absolutely. And thank you all for joining us on the Tudor Dixon podcast.
41:01As you know, for this episode and others, you can get it on the iHeartRadio
41:05app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
41:08And you can always watch it on Rumble or YouTube at Tudor Dixon.
41:11Join us next time, and have a blessed day.
41:15This is an iHeartRadio app, guaranteed human.