The Manosphere Report

0:01Joe Rogan podcast, check it out.

0:03The Joe Rogan Experience. Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night, all day.

0:12What's happening, man? Good to see you.

0:14Yeah, good to see you, man.

0:15Hold up to that microphone, sir.

0:17All right. You were fucking great at that McConaughey thing last year.

0:23I really enjoyed that. That was my first time seeing you perform live.

0:26It was really cool. Thank you.

0:27It was very cool. You're so relaxed up there, man.

0:30So it was like you brought everybody into a nice, like, comfortable, chill vibe.

0:35It was cool. I'm glad you guys felt that way.

0:38Sometimes it takes me a minute to get into the groove, you know?

0:42Yeah, but it felt like that, you know?

0:43It felt like you were in it.

0:45Like, it brought the whole crowd into it, too.

0:47That event that he does, the two events, the one, the singer -songwriter one, and

0:52then the other one with the auction and everything, they're so cool.

0:55Such good events. Yeah, they're good people, too, you know?

0:57Yeah. I've really grown to just appreciate the community around here in Austin and the

1:03Hill Country area and all of that stuff.

1:05I definitely wouldn't have the career, I don't think, if I wouldn't have been for

1:10the community around here. Just supporting songwriters and music in the way that they do,

1:14it's pretty incredible, you know?

1:15When they get behind anything, it just feels so good to see that many people

1:19come together and have that support.

1:22It's a really good place, man.

1:24Austin is a really good community.

1:26It really is. A very positive place in a lot of ways.

1:29Yeah. I mean, nothing's perfect.

1:31There's no perfect places, but it's really good.

1:34Yeah. I like it so much better than when I was living in California.

1:37It just feels like real people.

1:40I miss it, man. I mean, I'm in the process of moving back to Texas

1:44as well. Where are you at right now?

1:47Outside of Dallas, Texas, out by Tyler.

1:49Okay. I've been in Topanga Canyon in L .A.

1:52for years. Oh, Jesus. You know?

1:53So I've been in the middle of it.

1:55Doing that Hollywood thing. Every time I get across the state line, it's just like

1:59that weight comes off. And you're just like, oh, man, I'm home, you know?

2:03So, yeah. Dude, you had the coolest fucking character on Yellowstone.

2:08It must be so fun to play.

2:10It was so much fun, man.

2:13I laugh. I always talk about it.

2:14I felt like I had one of the easiest jobs there, you know?

2:17It's because the character was kind of a smaller role.

2:20You know, most of the time I'd work like one or two days a week.

2:23And then the rest of the time I'd just be like fly fishing and get

2:26lost in the mountains and just disappear out there.

2:28Yeah. It was awesome. God, Montana's awesome.

2:31That show made so many people move out there, though.

2:33I know. So, you're going to take your license plate off your car before you

2:37go. Right. You better not have a California plate.

2:40Better not. They will fucking write things on your hood.

2:42Run you off the road.

2:44Yeah. They get upset. It's very interesting.

2:46They're very proud to be from Montana.

2:48Yeah. They want to keep it to themselves.

2:49Like, let it go, motherfucker.

2:51We're all Americans. All right?

2:52If you've got a good spot, you should be happy that people from California figure

2:56it out. Yeah. Don't be a dick.

2:58Like, you're American, bitch. You're not.

3:00It's not the United States of Montana.

3:03Shut the fuck up. I guess it's kind of anywhere, right?

3:05You know? Not that much here.

3:07Yeah. Here's pretty inviting. I've never had that experience here.

3:11Yeah. Not really. Texas is a pretty friendly place.

3:14Yeah. Yeah. And there's so many different walks of life that have been here for

3:18so long, you know? I think up there.

3:20And Montana and stuff, man.

3:22If you were tough enough to survive those winters and stake a claim up there

3:26back in the day, you had to fight for it.

3:27And they're still fighting for it now, you know?

3:29That does make sense. I mean, and that's also one of the things that's highlighted

3:32by the whole series, all the different Yellowstone series, the older ones with Harrison Ford.

3:37And, you know, they really do explain in a lot.

3:41I mean, it's kind of a cool chunk of history to see, like, how this

3:45all got started. How the kind of people that had to survive out there when,

3:50you know, all you had is a fireplace.

3:52Yeah. That's it. You got a fireplace.

3:54You just know. I love all those mountain men stories, you know, Jim Bridger and

3:57all that stuff. It's just like, man.

4:00And there is something. You get up there in those mountains, it gets into your

4:04bones, it gets into your blood, and it's a different thing, man.

4:08It's a spiritual place. It is.

4:11And it's also, it's like the most potent art.

4:15Like, it's nature's art. And you don't think of it as art, but God, it's

4:21so beautiful. It's like stunt.

4:23Like, sometimes when you're up there, you just have to stop and look, like, God,

4:26this is gorgeous. It's overwhelming if you haven't been up there, yeah.

4:30It gives you a feeling.

4:31There's like, it's almost like a drug that hits you because of the beauty of

4:36it all. Like, you take it in with the blue sky, you see the clouds

4:39and the mountain, and maybe there's a lake below you in the canyon, and you're

4:42like, God, this is gorgeous.

4:45It's like, you feel it in your DNA, man.

4:48It's like, your body knows, like, this is a fertile, beautiful place that's filled with

4:54life, and this should excite you.

4:56So all your natural human reward instincts are all like, this is the place I

5:01should be. Yeah. Like, look at the sky.

5:04Look at the lake. Look at the mountains.

5:06This is fertile. This is, like, life -giving.

5:08Yeah. Yeah, several years ago, I went to a guide school up there, like a

5:13hunting guide school. So, mm -hmm, and it was a whole pack squad.

5:18Part of it, I grew up cowboying and ranching, but I've never really been up

5:21there in those mountains like that, and my dad would always fantasize about that.

5:26We'd talk, you know, one day we're going to go on, like, a pack trip

5:28up in Montana, and, you know, we'd watch all those movies like Lonesome Dove and

5:31all of that stuff. So it was always just kind of a daydream.

5:35And years ago, I was just kind of overwhelmed with music stuff and all that

5:39and didn't know what I was going to do.

5:40And I ended up, I just wanted to go up there for a trip, you

5:43know, maybe go on a pack trip.

5:44And I started looking up places, and I found this place called Royaltyne Outfitters.

5:50And they're like, yeah, you know, we come up, and you can take you on

5:53a pack trip. But we also have, like, this six -week school, you know, that

5:57you can train to be a guide.

5:59It's all mule pack and all kinds of stuff, you know.

6:03And so I was like, man, I'm going to sign up for that, you know.

6:04And it was life -changing.

6:06There was only six of us in the class.

6:08And, um... You know, spent weeks back in the backcountry packing mules and horses.

6:13Oh, wow. We'd just tie a rope between two trees with a tarp for sleeping

6:18at night and always post up a couple of guys to watch over the horses

6:21at night. And I remember one morning I woke up, and it was in June,

6:25you know, but we were way back in there, and I woke up and the

6:28snow was coming down. And I just kind of raised my head up and I

6:31was looking out at the horses and the snow was just falling down on their

6:34backs. And there was that moment in me, I was like, I don't know if

6:38I'm ever going back. You know, I was like, this is right where I need

6:44to be. It was tough to come back to a civilization after that.

6:50I think we're doing something with ourselves, to ourselves, with civilization that we can't really

6:57fully appreciate because we're wrapped in it.

6:59And it's not until you get to nature where all that weight just gets lifted

7:02off of you and you feel more normal and you're like, oh, this is where

7:07people are supposed to be.

7:08Yeah, you know, no phones, there's nothing, no distractions, and it's just like all your

7:14senses heightened, your eyesight, your hearing, your sense of smell, like all of that stuff.

7:20And, you know, I remember going into it, you know, I didn't know what to

7:23expect really. I've done some camping and things like that and grew up ranching and

7:27all that, but this was a way different deal.

7:29And I remember I just had this, like, backpack full of gear, you know.

7:33And by the time I got out of there, like, I just felt like all

7:36I needed was a pair of scissors and some way to start some fire, you

7:40know, and that was about it.

7:44Yeah, I follow this one dude.

7:47God, I'm trying to remember his name.

7:49Clay. Let me pull it up because I really enjoy his videos.

7:55But this dude, he lives, I believe he lives in Alaska, but he does a

8:00lot of trips in America, like all over America in the lower 48.

8:04And he goes and, like, lives by himself in some kind of harsh environment.

8:11Like he's done it in the swamps.

8:14Clay A's. That's it. Does he, like, take his kid out there?

8:18I believe he has. He's taken his dog.

8:21But a lot of times he just goes entirely by himself.

8:26And they're very, very interesting.

8:28Like he starts his own fire.

8:30He'll figure out how to get food.

8:32He figures out how to purify water.

8:34He's taken salt water and made his own thing that kind of distills it into

8:38fresh water and removes the salt, like very slowly by using a piece of bamboo

8:44and fire and boiling the water in the bamboo so that, like, the water evaporates

8:50and then drips down and it doesn't have salt in it apparently.

8:52Yeah. I love that stuff, man.

8:53I love it. I mean, just to have those skills, just to know how to

8:56do it, like, whether you'll ever need it or not, just to know how to

8:59do that. It's just so cool.

9:01I remember in that guide school, there's a lot of different parts to it, which

9:06was so cool. It was like we did a whole week of, like, backcountry, like,

9:11wilderness first aid. You know, a guy had a paramedic come in and teach us

9:14all this stuff, and then there was a whole week of just, like, leather work.

9:17There was a whole week of shooting horses.

9:19There was fly fishing and entomology and all these just kind of little skills.

9:24But one thing that really stuck with me was a fire building kind of drill

9:30when we started. It was kind of right when we first got there, and it

9:32was pretty wet and it had been snowing, and there's only six of us, you

9:36know, and we're guys from kind of all over the country.

9:38And I grew up in New Mexico and West Texas where it's pretty dry, you

9:42know, and you kind of build a fire.

9:44You can kind of just take some little small twigs and get a little fire

9:47going, you know. So he goes, all right, you've got two minutes to build a

9:50fire, and you need to have, you know, like a flame to be three or

9:53four feet high. And, man, I'm running around grabbing, like, little sticks and twigs, and

9:58I'm just – and we have a lighter, too.

9:59You know, I'm just struggling.

10:00It's just smoking, and we can't get it going.

10:02I look over, and there's a kid from Alaska in the class, and he just

10:07runs over to this big dead pine tree and just breaks off the biggest branch

10:12of dead, you know, pine needles and takes his lighter and just – within, like,

10:17five seconds has this massive fire going.

10:20I was like, okay, that's how you do that, you know.

10:23And it was so – just the littlest things, you know, to have that knowledge,

10:26you know. And part of it was, you know, he was explaining to us, the

10:29instructor, he's like, yeah, you know, if you're out here with – you're guiding somebody

10:32that's hunting, maybe he's an elderly guy or somebody gets hurt, and you get caught

10:36back in the mountains, and it's snowing.

10:38I was like, you better get a fire going and keep them warm real quick,

10:40you know. So there was always, you know, a reason and a purpose behind it,

10:44which was really cool. And I'll never – those are some of the things I'll

10:48never forget. Did they teach you how to start fires with, like, a piece of

10:52metal and, like, a flint?

10:54Like, you know, what is that, a striking rod?

10:56Yeah, we did some flint stuff, and with, like, the pitch wood from some of

11:00the old pine trees, you know.

11:01You can find that pitch wood, and we did some bow and wood drills, so

11:06not a whole lot. That fucking shit is hard.

11:08It was so hard. I did that in the Boy Scouts, and it took, like,

11:13hours to start a fire.

11:15You have to fucking keep sawing.

11:17And if you're doing it with your hand, you're going to blow your hands up.

11:20You better get a bow.

11:22Get your technique down. You better practice it.

11:24Get the stick on the top and the stick that goes all the way to

11:27the base thing, and you cut a little hole in the base thing so that,

11:31like, all the little embers can fall into your kindling, and you got to saw

11:35the shit out of that fucker.

11:36And imagine trying to do that, you know, in the snow or when it's wet.

11:40Right. You know, it's like, man, it's just incredible.

11:42Very, very unlikely. You know what's really good for kindling?

11:46Fritos. Really? Those chips? The roller that's in it?

11:49Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's kind of shocking.

11:52Yeah. We were in Alaska, and it was raining all the time, and there was

11:54one day where it stopped.

11:56I was with my friend Steve Rinello took me up there.

11:58Okay, yeah. My friend Brian Cowan.

12:00Mm -hmm. Brian Cowan and all these guys.

12:02So we went up there, and when we got one day, like a 10 -hour

12:07stretch where it was not raining, we're like, we got to start a fucking fire,

12:11because it was raining every day for like five days in a row, and we

12:15couldn't find any deer. It was a nightmare.

12:17It was tough hunting. Yeah.

12:19So this one day, and we were trying to figure out things to light on

12:23fire, because everything's so good.

12:24Okay. wet and so we got some pieces of wood from like underneath the bottom

12:29of trees and shit and dead trees that were covered by other things that were

12:33kind of sort of a little bit dry and we used fritos and fritos when

12:38you light them man it's crazy how much oil is in those things they just

12:43and they stay lit for a long time like a candle yeah and so we

12:47started like piling little things and we got that fire i was like the happiest

12:51i've ever been in my life oh i bet soaking wet just cannot get once

12:55you get that kind of cold too it's just like there's almost you know your

12:59cold wasn't that bad cold wise it was like in the 50s or 60s yeah

13:04it was just the wetness the wetness was impossible to get away from i thought

13:08once you get in your tent you'd be dry you get in your sleeping bag

13:11you'd be dry but i had to take a piss in the middle of the

13:14night i had to turn on my headlamp in the tent and when i did

13:16it was all just mist yeah everywhere was and i was like oh my god

13:22i'm never gonna be dry i had to just accept like there's no drying here

13:26how long how long were you guys back in there about six days we had

13:29we had to leave we were supposed to be there for seven but we had

13:32to leave on the sixth day because the storm was coming in i was like

13:35i could get stuck because you can get stuck up there yeah we were on

13:38uh i guess prince edwards is that what the island is yeah um you get

13:42stuck up there and i was like i gotta get back home i gotta work

13:45did y 'all get fly in like on a puddle jumper bush plane yeah we

13:48landed in the pond and you had certain windows to get you in and out

13:51of there huh yeah exactly and you could drink right out of the pond like

13:55the pond was all rain water and there was no it was too high for

13:58beavers so you didn't have to worry about giardia or anything in the water you

14:01could just drink right out of the pond like this is crazy yeah it's the

14:04best i've never been i've been to alaska only like in in the winter on

14:08a like skiing thing but i've always wanted to go up there to hunt and

14:10fish and the people are extraordinary those are rugged people yeah like when i did

14:16a a gig with my friend ari in anchorage and one of the things and

14:20it was weird because you get there it's 11 p .m it's bright out like

14:23this is weird one of the things that we talked about after was like those

14:26people were fucking cool like there's there's something about living up there like where you

14:31could die going outside like a good six months out of the year there's fucking

14:37bears everywhere uh if you you you look sideways at a moose it'll stomp you

14:42to death in a fucking walmart parking lot yeah like it's you better have your

14:46shit together you better have your shit together there's bald eagles everywhere the the salmon

14:51are as big as your thigh i mean the people there are they work together

14:57they'll there's like they're very friendly but they're very rugged but they're also like they

15:03realize you need each other like there's a sense of like yeah yeah you need

15:09each other if your fucking car breaks down the side of the road you could

15:12die like someone's not gonna let you die they're gonna pull over in california they're

15:16like someone will get them they just keep driving so you just lose this sense

15:20of community yeah you're not calling you're you're not that's that's who you're calling for

15:24help in times of need is your neighbor exactly i mean even if like the

15:27bridge washes out it's like here comes your neighbor with the backhoe and the tractor

15:31and like you just do it yourselves and that makes a cool friendship when your

15:35friend helps you out or when you help your friend out that's what i miss

15:38about living in texas too you know it's just like just some of the small

15:42things or whatever that you like even up at my place in topanga you know

15:47you want to build some fence or whatever like i do i feel lucky i've

15:50got a couple of really good friends up there and neighbors that you know love

15:53to come you know work with their hands and or you get their hands dirty

15:57and we'll build stuff and but like man in texas you want to like weld

16:01something or you need something with a tractor some heavy equipment thing you know like

16:04you're not getting that done in california right it's gonna cost you a fortune to

16:08you know get someone with a skid steer up to your house to help you

16:12move some dirt around you know but here in texas it's like oh man just

16:15call frank down the road he's got one there's people that have a long tradition

16:22of doing stuff you know it's like it's a real place i grew up like

16:26that too you know um you know people cutting hay and stuff like that especially

16:31when you're young like man we would go stack hay for everybody around you know

16:36it's like that was the summer job you know it's like let's just go that

16:40makes a strong person people that throw hay around those are strong mother like that

16:46term like farmer strength that shit's real yeah you better say i was always a

16:50little guy too so i had to use and learn how to use leverage real

16:53quick yeah roll those bells up on your knee i think one of the last

16:57times i did that i remember is uh i was going to school in stephenville

17:00texas and had a good friend over in glenrose and it was the middle of

17:04july and and he's an older man and asked us to come help him stack

17:08hay in his barn and it was you know we're stacking it in the barn

17:11you know so and it's just like you're inside the money it's just hot it

17:13could have been 110 degrees in there you know and we're talking hundreds of bells

17:17of hay and it was just all we could do and of course we're hung

17:20over we're sitting you know in college we're trying we're stacking hay and i was

17:23like i think i think this is my last hay hauling job right now yeah

17:27those jobs those are good for letting you know that this is not the life

17:31you want yeah like get a good rugged manual labor job it'll knock some fucking

17:35sense of deal that's why i got the guitar man i learned pretty quick that

17:38the guitar felt a lot better in my hands in that shovel dude yeah i

17:44know that feeling i i spent one summer doing insulation in an attic it was

17:49all that fiberglass insulation i had it in all my skin because you're sweating your

17:54eyes yeah you're sweating because it's hot this is the summer so it's getting into

17:58your pores and you're always itchy you feel like it's on you all the time

18:02also like it's got to be terrible to be breathing that shit in oh the

18:06worst yeah and i don't even think we were using equipment i don't think we

18:10used any safety equipment heck no you didn't have a mask on or anything i

18:14don't believe so i think we just installed it just unrolled that shit and stuffed

18:18it into the into the rafters using paint with lead in it and then back

18:26then the gasoline had lead too so drinking out of the water hose right oh

18:31yeah yeah i think it makes a resilient person to drink out of water hose

18:34heck yeah you get tough or die you get extra minute girls from the fucking

18:41copper on the faucet yeah it's uh those jobs are really important like for a

18:47young person to figure out what they don't want to do teaches you work ethic

18:52teaches you like hey like this is you can get some satisfaction out of a

18:56hard day's work and a hard week like you did it you put it in

19:00feel good about yourself you know it was difficult to do but don't keep doing

19:05that yeah figure out a way out of this yeah you you you got to

19:09understand that you understand it you you got to feel for it you know what

19:13hard labor is but yeah don't ruin your life yeah i i feel real grateful

19:19my granddad was always a real hard worker and even when i was 12 and

19:2313 you know in the summers or i spent a lot of time living with

19:26them and he always had a job lined up for me you know it's like

19:29hey you're gonna go over here and we're gonna mow so -and -so's lawn this

19:33morning and we're gonna go over here we're gonna send you out to kins and

19:36you're gonna build some fence this weekend or and i always enjoyed it though i

19:41enjoyed those guys i was around and um you know i'd work all day and

19:45then we'd sit around and they'd drink beer in the afternoon and tell me stories

19:49and you know and even now like on my own place you know it's like

19:53i don't want to be building somebody else's fence but i'm glad i know how

19:56to build my own right or things like that and have those skills i still

20:00love working around the house and doing little projects and things like that i meet

20:04a lot of younger guys and kids that sometimes i i uh i guess i

20:09have an expectation that they know how to do that kind of stuff you know

20:13right they want to come over to the house and help us in projects and

20:16stuff and i'm like oh yeah cool we'll just you know i already dug those

20:20holes and set up a string line and we'll set these posts and they're like

20:23okay and then after about a half hour i look over i'm there just kind

20:27of looking at the ground i'm like what are we doing here you know they're

20:31like i don't have a clue what you want me to do you know that's

20:34hilarious that's hilarious but uh yeah it's uh it's it's wild it's changed man kids

20:43ain't out there mowing lawns no more that's for sure no well there's something about

20:47that kind of work like putting in fences and all the stuff that you see

20:52the cowboys doing on yellowstone and then hanging out together afterwards that's so like viscerally

20:59appealing to people there's something about watching that life like it's you would say it's

21:05like a simple difficult life maybe i don't know what it is but whatever it

21:10is it's like it's so appealing like so many people wanted to be cowboys after

21:14they watched your show i think it's something goes to like you're talking about that

21:18guy living off the land and stuff like that it's just uh you know something

21:23that's been ingrained in us over thousands of years of survival and like we have

21:28we all have that in us still today and we just unfortunately lose in touch

21:32with it because we're not doing it as much and so when you get the

21:35opportunity to even just go plant a garden or something like that i think that's

21:40it it's in us you know and it's a it wakes up something within that's

21:44just been a little bit dormant for a while you know and i think you're

21:47right you know i think that's exactly what it is i think it is like

21:51it's in our memory like the memory of our genes that this is like a

21:55pleasing life this is a satisfying life it's like that mama bear energy you know

22:00kids come it's just like i was like yeah oh man you know yeah yeah

22:04it's it's there you know and it's just like i realized that having kids it's

22:10just like oh man it wakes something up within you that's always been there right

22:14now that you were born to have you know that that survival instinct and all

22:19of those things and i i still that's what i still love about it like

22:23i even at home being on the road and being in big cities all the

22:26time and you're just surrounded with information and screens man as soon as i can

22:31get home or get outside or get into nature it just it wakes that stuff

22:35back up in me and it i feel like it puts that spark back in

22:38my eye you know yeah i uh try to stay in tune with that as

22:42much as i can well it's clearly so appealing to people that don't experience it

22:47i mean how many people that are watching shows like yellowstone never go into those

22:52areas but they watch it like oh yeah i want to live like that we

22:56see the like prices of horses it just skyrocketing like buying old vans for like

23:01five grand and now i'm sure it's like 50 50 000 bucks for for a

23:06trail horse you know which is cool you know i hope people are enjoying that

23:10and getting something and out getting something out of it like you know i still

23:13i mean i'm not running a bunch of cows these days but i keep a

23:17few horses around and especially for the kids you know and whether they want anything

23:20to do with them or not like we enjoy so much in the afternoons go

23:23up and feed them some carrots or brushing their tails and just being around that

23:27energy my youngest little boy he's just got he's got some kind of mojo with

23:32animals you know and i've got this old mule and her name's honey and she's

23:36got these big ears and she's massive you know and i remember when he was

23:39like three or four i'd be looking around for him in the backyard and i'd

23:44look out in the pasture and he'd be out there with that mule and she'd

23:46have her head down and he's just out there petting her ears you know and

23:51just like his connection with those animals and then you know getting kids up to

23:55the house or that or from the city that aren't around those animals their first

23:59time around horses or maybe even dogs and stuff like that and you can see

24:03they're they're so anxious or you know not maybe so scared but it's just nervous

24:08you know it's big animals and stuff and within like 20 minutes of just sitting

24:11them on their back or petting them and then you see them relax and you

24:15see that energy kind of slow down and uh i just i love that you

24:20know i think it's so magical to watch and yeah that's another relationship that's like

24:23primal the relationship between people and horses they do that with addicts they do equine

24:29therapy where they just have like people that are they have like heavy anxiety and

24:34depression they have them hang out with horses i think even me i still do

24:38i mean i i have get depressed and stuff like that or now and then

24:42and i love being around them i can walk out to the barn and just

24:44being around them and laying on their backs and it's just like ah yeah all

24:49right here we go just touching their head makes you feel better like hey yeah

24:53How are you, honey? What's happening?

24:55They look at me. Yeah.

24:57I get eye contact with them.

24:59I think it's looking into your soul.

25:01An ancient thing. I mean, they helped us survive.

25:05And we took care of them.

25:07It's like this ancient relationship.

25:08And then when you're around them, that connection immediately rebonds, reestablishes.

25:14I think it's in our DNA.

25:16I mean, just think about how many generations of humans had to survive on horseback

25:20before anybody invented anything else.

25:22It's like, if you wanted to travel faster than you could run, it had to

25:26be a fucking horse. So that was probably thousands and thousands and thousands of years

25:30just cooked into our DNA.

25:32And when you're around them, it's like, oh, my friend.

25:35This is my friend. It's waking it back up.

25:37Yeah, it's weird. It's there, yeah.

25:39It's weird that that stuff is in you.

25:41That nature stuff is in you.

25:43I mean, that's why we like watching shows like this Clay guy.

25:46I love that, too. I love that Steve Rinella show, that meat eater.

25:50I like watching that with my kids.

25:51And aren't you friends with Remy Warren?

25:55Oh, yeah, real good friends.

25:56He ended up being my neighbor when I was in Montana working on Yellowstone.

25:59Oh, really? Yeah. Oh, that's crazy.

26:01And, you know, what I really liked up there was where they filmed the show.

26:06You know, it was kind of way out there, southwestern Montana.

26:08And a lot of folks that were working on the show would go back to

26:11Missoula in the cities. But I was like, man, I want to go get as

26:14far away out there as I can.

26:15And so I kind of went down this West Fork area that's right on the

26:21edge of the most massive wilderness areas out there that goes into Idaho.

26:25And the road I was on, you know, it was paved dirt.

26:28Then it dead ended and it turned into a dirt road.

26:30And then I got this cabin that was just way back up in there with

26:33no Wi -Fi, no nothing, you know.

26:35And I just disappeared out there and ended up meeting some folks.

26:42And Remy was just right down the road going towards Sula.

26:45And so I got the chance to just go over there and hang out with

26:48him and go stomp around the mountains with him.

26:50Such a cool dude. It's like.

26:51Remy's the best. Just, you know, like you're talking about going to Alaska.

26:54You know, I love going into those places.

26:56But, like, you want somebody like that with you when you go.

26:58For sure. Yeah. Yeah, he knows how to get around.

27:02Yeah. And he used to have a great show.

27:04So, well, first of all, he had Solo Hunter where he'd go and film everything

27:09himself, which is so much more difficult than just hunting.

27:13Yeah. He would carry tripods with him and shit and set it up and make

27:17sure the camera's on the animal before he would shoot it and then film himself.

27:21Film himself moving up to there.

27:23Set up different cameras that could show him executing the shot.

27:26I'm like, God, that's so complicated.

27:28And he's a beast, man.

27:29Just trying to keep up with him, you know, I was just walking around the

27:33mountains with that guy. I'm like, oh, man, wait up.

27:36I'll be out of coming.

27:37Yeah, they get that mountain cardio.

27:39Yeah. He's like a mountain goat.

27:41Well, you know, he hunts probably 200 plus days a year.

27:45Yeah. And on top of that, he does a lot of guiding.

27:47And when he's doing guiding, he's like always in the mountains, always hiking.

27:50It's like you just get conditioned to it.

27:53Yeah, he's fit. I went to Hawaii with him and did an axis hunt over

27:56there. Cool. One of the coolest things I ever did.

27:59And I got this buck and we're loading up in the truck and all that.

28:05And he was like, man, I'm going to I'll meet you guys back at camp.

28:08You know, it was dark already.

28:09And like I know, you know, during the day we were hunting, we're just steep

28:12mountains up and down. And I said, you're just going to meet us back?

28:16He's like, yeah, I'll meet you back.

28:17And he just put on his backpack and just took off running.

28:19And and we drove down this mountain road to go back.

28:22He beat us there by like a half an hour.

28:25And that was his workout.

28:26He's like, yeah, it's part of my workout.

28:28I'll meet you guys back there.

28:29I was like, oh, you're you're an animal.

28:31That's funny. Axis deer in Hawaii is very interesting because they were given to King

28:39Kamehameha in like, I don't remember what year it was.

28:43Find out what year they got introduced there.

28:45But they're everywhere now. I've gone to Lanai a bunch of times.

28:49That's where we went hunting.

28:50Yeah, it was wild. There are thousands of them everywhere.

28:53And you're trying to sneak up on a group of 10.

28:55And then you don't even realize there's like 100 right here laying down that you

28:59didn't even see. And then they get up and spook the rest and stand.

29:02Well, you know, you've you've been there.

29:04OK, it was in the 1800s.

29:06A gift to King Kamehameha from India.

29:12And there's 30 ,000 of them in Lanai and only 3 ,000 people.

29:16I mean, it's crazy. It's the only place where you can go hunting, bow hunting,

29:21and you stay at the Four Seasons.

29:22Right. I think Remy said he got kicked out of there, though, because he was

29:28hunting so much. And, you know, all that red clay there, you know, on your

29:32boots and stuff. He said so the whole hotel was just like red clay everywhere.

29:35The fridge is just full of meat, you know, like blood dripping out.

29:39They kicked him out of there?

29:40Oh, I don't know if they kicked him out.

29:42But like, he's like, well, maybe we ought to go find somewhere else to stay,

29:45you know. Well, just take off your boots before you come inside.

29:47That's all it is. But yeah, it's that weird red clay.

29:50And it all used to be part of the Dole pineapple plantation.

29:55So when you're around there, one of the things you notice is like there's layers

29:58of dirt. But then there's like almost looks like plastic bag underneath it, like a

30:03hefty bag. From all the farming?

30:05Yeah. Yeah, so I guess they had a layer of like that kind of whatever

30:10the fuck a hefty bag is made out of, whatever that plastic is.

30:13And then the dirt was on top of that somehow.

30:15And then the pineapples would grow up through it.

30:18I always keep moisture and stuff like that in the ground.

30:20Yeah, I would imagine. But it's disconcerting because it doesn't feel like nature.

30:25It feels weird. It does.

30:26There's plastic everywhere in the ground.

30:28Yeah. And then you get in the mountains and like those old World War II

30:31turrets and stuff that are up there.

30:33Oh, yeah. Do you come across any of that stuff?

30:34I mean, it's just like, first of all, like hunting Axis deer in Lanai and

30:39like you get up on the top and you're surrounded by the ocean.

30:41I mean, what a trip, you know.

30:43I know. Just seeing that and then coming across all those old relics and just

30:47all the history there. It's just something to take into.

30:50And we are laughing because obviously they're trying to like control the population of the

30:54Axis deer there. And I think somebody mentioned like, man, just get a couple of

30:59Bengal tigers out here. Exactly.

31:03That'll thin out the population.

31:05It'll thin out the population of people too, unfortunately.

31:07Yeah. The thing about them is that they did evolve around tigers.

31:10That's why they're so fast Like they'll jump a string faster than any animal I've

31:15ever seen in my life I have a video of me shooting at an axis

31:18deer at 80 yards and it's we have a slow -mo of the arrow Yeah,

31:23so as the arrows coming is a perfect shot within 10 yards of him.

31:29He hears it and And he's gone It's the craziest thing like you you look

31:36at it. You're like how the fuck did he move that fast?

31:39This thing's going at least from the actual like leaving the bow.

31:44It's going 275 feet per second.

31:47Yeah, and he can get out of here coming 10 yards within 10 yards He's

31:51hearing it coming and he's like see ya Yeah, and nowhere near him like it.

31:55He was a foot in front of it was a the arrow landed a foot

31:59behind his ass That's how fast they move.

32:02Yeah, it's crazy How long did you go there for a while or just kind

32:05of like a few times trips?

32:07Yeah Um, we found that the best time to hunt is actually in the afternoon

32:11Because in the afternoon it's really windy and when it's really windy it covers your

32:15sound a little bit. Okay, the morning's rough Yeah, the morning's rough like the morning

32:20I got a couple of them in the morning a couple of times morning hunting.

32:24I got a deer but it's a lot of blown stalks You got to walk

32:29super slow. You got to be real cautious and again There's a lot of high

32:33brush and you don't know where the fuck they're hiding Yeah, you got to kind

32:36of find a pinch point Yeah, you jump one and then the rest of you

32:40sound off the way they bark and all of that's pretty crazy It's weird noise.

32:44What you got to kind of do is like find where they're going to be

32:47and just wait because they travel so much They do so much moving you think

32:52I'm just gonna go You know still hunt and spot and stalk and I'll find

32:56one look you're almost better off to stay and put Yeah, just stay and put

33:00and wait for them because they're moving all over the place.

33:02There's so fucking many of them.

33:04It's crazy. Yeah, but It's amazing how unsuccessful people are bow hunting them mm -hmm

33:10rifle. It's a done deal It's if you want meat and it's the best meat

33:15in the world. So it's great for the people that live there It's incredible.

33:19I mean they have access to the best meat in the world hundred percent.

33:23They're gonna get a deer And so if you ever but if you have a

33:26boat We went there and then so I went with Remy.

33:30I went with John Dudley Cam Haynes and Adam Greentree They're like all seasoned bow

33:36hunters. Yeah, everybody Everybody got a deer and we made a podcast about it.

33:41We had a good old time They had a hundred and fifty people go over

33:45the next year and one was successful with a bow That's it take your chances.

33:51Yeah, that's how hard it is Yeah, because it's like these fuckers are they're Dialed

33:56in man and they move a lot of people chasing them to yeah, they know

33:59the game right 365 days a year They get hunted there's no season and then

34:03they have snipers that are after him at night Because you know, they use it

34:07for meat for the restaurants and meat for people and so and they just have

34:11to control the population There's so many of them and no predators.

34:14Yeah, and still can't thin them out, right?

34:16I know it's crazy. I think they got a good head start.

34:19They eradicated them from the Big Island Oh, did they?

34:22Yeah, somebody tried to reintroduce them or introduce I should say to the Big Island

34:26and they're like no no no no no no no We know this is going

34:29good. He's gonna destroy people's crops and destroy people's gardens takeover And they already have

34:35plenty of wild pigs on the Big Island.

34:37So they just mm -hmm.

34:38They whacked them all Unfortunately, it's kind of like the pigs here in Texas, right?

34:42Crazy And it got wild I don't know you know growing up here when I

34:45was younger and never remember them being like how they are now They don't stop

34:49they have three or four litters a year and each litter has I think they

34:54can have as many as six piglets It's crazy.

34:57They just and they can get pregnant six months old at six months old They

35:01can get pregnant. They're ready to rock and they're just spitting out pigs and just

35:05turn turn shit up. Yeah I we have a lease out here for a hunting

35:10land me and some of my friends and the amount of pigs is disturbing It's

35:16like you hear them everywhere You hear them in the bushes.

35:19They're all over the fucking place.

35:20It's like most of Texas probably that's not like city Has wild pigs in it

35:26mm -hmm It's just like taking over man, and it's all came over on boats.

35:33Yeah, that's how it all got here Yeah, it's important a man.

35:37Yeah guys from Europe. They brought boats and and in the boats some of them

35:41brought pigs and then they let them loose It's crazy man Tearing stuff up.

35:47Yeah, I don't ever remember them being as bad as they were like the last

35:5015 years or so It's actually bad in California too and California has them from

35:55William Randolph Hearst Well, didn't they take didn't they like eradicate them off the Channel

35:59Islands out there? I think so They I think the islands and they had mule

36:04deer on some of the islands out there too, right?

36:07Mm -hmm. Yeah, I forget which island had mule deer But apparently they had like

36:11a like you could go hunt on one of these islands Mm -hmm.

36:16Yeah, I think you I think you might still be able to like on Catalina

36:18or a couple but maybe Do they really allow us to?

36:22They did because I know my My buddy Matt he did it like maybe the

36:26last year the year before but I think they're trying to put a stop to

36:29it and Yeah, and kind of stop it as those Channel Islands are pretty interesting

36:33I remember first moving out there even just going out there 15 years ago and

36:39Seeing the islands out there, you know, and I'd ask people all around I was

36:42like man, what's the deal with these islands out there and half the people that

36:45I would talk to be like what are you talking about?

36:47I'm like that island right out there.

36:51They're like, oh, I thought that was Long Beach, you know Really?

36:55I was like if you looked at a map, you know I love maps, so

36:59I started, you know doing some research and figuring out all about it and they're

37:03really cool and over the years I've met some really cool guys go out there

37:07a lot and spearfish and just to go out there to them and Besides Catalina

37:11like Santa Cruz and San Miguel, and you know, they're all like nature preserves and

37:15protect it So it's like going back in time when you get out there and

37:19I love it out there.

37:21It's such a such a cool spot.

37:23Did they try to, are they trying to eradicate deer from Catalina?

37:27I think I've read something about that.

37:30See if that's true. I think they're trying to remove the deer because they said

37:34the deer were non -native to the island.

37:36Yeah. Yeah, I think that's what they did with the, with the hogs and I

37:41don't know. There's like a specific island fox out there.

37:44Yeah, here it is. As of early 2026, California officials have approved a controversial plan

37:50to fully eradicate the non -native mule deer population on Santa Catalina Island to restore

37:56the ecosystem. Around 2 ,000 deer introduced in the 1930s for hunting will be removed

38:02by ground -based hunters to protect native biodiversity.

38:06Come on. That sounds crazy.

38:10How about just let people hunt them?

38:12Fuck's wrong with you. So the issue is Catalina Island Conservancy considers the mule deer

38:19an invasive species that disrupts the ecosystem as they consume native plants and seedlings while

38:24spreading fire -prone invasive grasses.

38:29Really? I have, I just always worry about conservancies and their, their judgments on things

38:38like that because there's a lot of, they want to eradicate all the pigs from

38:41Texas or the, uh, from, uh, California rather.

38:45They think of them as non -native and they want them out too, but you're

38:49not going to, they want to eradicate D.

38:52Uh, there's like elk in California that are Yellowstone elk that were brought there in

38:57like the 1950s that they're, they want to eradicate.

39:00Like the, like the Thule elk?

39:01No, they're actually, they're actually Rocky mountain elk.

39:05Oh, okay. Yeah. But they're, they're a larger breed of Rocky mountain elk that they

39:10call yellow, apparently. Like in the Sierras or down along the coast and stuff?

39:15Tachapi. Tachapi, yeah. Up in that area on those mountains.

39:18Um, big fucking elk, like 400 inch elk.

39:22Like a couple of those elk out there that are in the front, that's what

39:24they're from. There's, that's in there?

39:26Those are massive. Yeah. It's from Tohono Ranch.

39:29Okay. Yeah. And. Oh yeah.

39:31It's like going up over the grapevine.

39:33Exactly. That's where you got those?

39:34Uh -huh. Wow. I had no idea that they were that big out there.

39:38It's all, it's the biggest private ranch in California.

39:41It's like 270 ,000 acres.

39:43I've heard of the ranch, but I didn't know that they had elk like that

39:46up there. Yeah. Yeah. One of the rare places, gorgeous fucking place.

39:50But, uh, they also go up, it's kind of funny.

39:52They go up to, um, there's a golfing community at, uh, higher up in Tachapi

39:58and, um, the elk just hang out on the golf course.

40:01So like giant elk, like 400 inch elk, just chilling, hanging out together on the

40:07golf course. And dudes are playing golf.

40:10That's wild. While they're lying down next to them like 20 yards away.

40:13It's crazy. I seen, I saw some one time I was driving up the coast.

40:17I think I was going up to San Francisco to play a gig and, uh,

40:21maybe they're the tule elk.

40:22I'm not sure what they were, but I was along the coast there and I

40:25looked over in the field and there was like 30 head of them just laying

40:28down over there. I'm like, oh man, I didn't even know there were elk down

40:32here. It's just, I love seeing, uh, wildlife that in unexpected places, you know?

40:37Yeah. They recently just found a wolf in Los Angeles.

40:41They're unexpected for me anyway.

40:41Oh really? Yeah. See, see if you can find the story about that wolf that

40:46they just discovered in Los Angeles.

40:48There's a mama, a mama bear, black bear with three cubs now running around in

40:52Topanga. Oh yeah. There's a lot of those.

40:55A lot of lions running around.

40:57Um, there's a lot of, uh, a lot of bears.

40:59I've seen them in Pasadena and people's pools.

41:02I knew there's a bunch out in Pasadena and like Glendale.

41:06Wolf detected in Los Angeles County for the first time in more than a century.

41:12Crazy. Isn't that nuts? Yeah.

41:15Those guys can fucking travel.

41:19I had a lady on who was a wolf biologist and she was talking about

41:23like the, you know, they'd call her some of these wolves and they would track

41:26them. They would go 500 miles.

41:28Yeah. Like it's kind of insane.

41:31I didn't know that. Yeah.

41:32That's incredible. Well, that's how they learned about them.

41:34It's really the only way to tell is to like put a collar on them

41:37and track them by GPS and you know, they mean they're extraordinary animals.

41:43Like where were the, where were they originating from and in Montana, Wyoming and how,

41:48where were they going? The ones that they're tracking.

41:50I think the ones that they were tracking were the part of the group that

41:53was brought in, you know, in the 1990s, you know, so there was that pack

41:58in the subsequent packs that came after that.

42:00There were all the reintroduced wolves.

42:02And so they would, you know, dart and collar some of them.

42:06And when they would do that, they would just track their motion.

42:08They're like, Jesus, these fuckers are covering some ground.

42:11They're covering some ground. And it's interesting too, that they actually make mountain lions kill

42:18more deer. Good competing with them.

42:21Yeah. Because, uh, the mountain lions kill a deer and then the wolves will steal

42:25it. So they'll come up on the mountain lion and they'll surround them and the

42:29mountain lion will go, fuck this.

42:30I'm out of here. And he'll just go kill another deer.

42:32So he doesn't even get a chance to eat his deer because the wolves keep

42:35stealing his deer. They keep tracking the lions.

42:37Probably just following them around.

42:38They're smart, man. Let them do the dirty work.

42:40Yeah. They do. They let them do the dirty work and then they steal their

42:42food. Work smarter, not harder, huh?

42:45What does it say? The wolf that they found?

42:47Yeah. This is from when, uh, February when they first spotted it.

42:50So the wolf was born in 2023.

42:52Plumas County's, where's Plumas County?

42:55It's traveled more than 370 miles.

42:58Wow. Including crossing state route 59 near Tachapi.

43:02There you go. Yeah. They had one up in Tachapi too that, uh, a buddy

43:06of mine, it was actually closer to, um, uh, the city that's down there.

43:12What is that fucking city?

43:13Bakersfield? Bakersfield. Yeah. Exactly. Wildlife officials now estimate at least 60 wolves live in the

43:19state. Wow. One crossed over in 2011.

43:23Wow. From California, from Oregon.

43:27So, uh, so they find them in the Tachapi mountains.

43:30Interesting. Biologists told newspaper, oh, biologists told newspapers that she could encounter a mate in

43:36the knee. Nearby regions such as Tachapi Mountains, potentially forming a new pack or continue

43:41to roam. What was that picture you just had of the elk?

43:43Yeah, that's that golf course.

43:44Look at that. Giant fucking elk chilling on the golf course.

43:50On the flag. Yeah, look how beautiful that is.

43:53God, so pretty out there.

43:55Massive elk. Oak Tree Country Club.

43:57Perfect sanctuary for them, right?

43:59Oh, yeah, man. And it's just, it adds to the coolness of playing golf.

44:04I mean, you're playing golf around giant, beautiful animals.

44:07I bet those greens keepers love them, though.

44:09Right. They probably fuck up all kinds of things out there.

44:13Yeah. It's, the wolf thing is interesting because they just brought them back to Aspen,

44:19and they did a really stupid thing.

44:21They brought them into an area where it has a lot of livestock, and they

44:26brought them in from a place in Oregon where these wolves had all been captured

44:31because they were killing agriculture.

44:33Yeah. So what did they do?

44:35They captured them, and they dropped them off in Colorado where they started killing cows

44:40again. In the national park.

44:41They just do it. Well, it's on people's, my friend's ranch.

44:44One of them, they dropped three wolves off on my friend's ranch.

44:47That's tough, man. Who's so mad?

44:48I've heard that even with the bears and stuff.

44:50You know, you get some problem bears or whatever, and then they go drop them

44:52out where the farmers and ranches are living.

44:55You know, it's like, man, how's that going to work?

44:57Well, it's the people in charge of these things and making these decisions.

45:01They don't understand what they're doing.

45:03They're monkeying around with wildlife, nature, biology, and you don't know what you're doing.

45:08Yeah. You have no idea.

45:10Also, like, how the fuck do you in good conscience take a wolf that's used

45:14to killing cows and put them around other people's cows?

45:17Yeah. It's already programmed, man.

45:20The dinner bell is ringing.

45:21It knows exactly how to do it.

45:22It knows it's easy. They're all fenced in.

45:25They taste delicious. Why would it stop?

45:28Or why would it, yeah, why would it go chase tougher prey, right?

45:32So now these poor ranchers have to have people monitoring their cows 24 -7.

45:38They have to have cowboys up all night that are wandering around and on horseback

45:42and just looking for wolves.

45:45I mean, it's a disaster.

45:46It's tough. They've killed dozens of cows.

45:48And these are folks that, you know, have been, like, surviving on this land for

45:52generations and dealing with that and, you know, have a history with managing that stuff.

45:59You know, it would probably be the folks I'd want to ask is how to

46:02handle it, you know? Well, they would certainly tell you don't let the wolves in.

46:06And if you do, kill them, you know?

46:09But now it's gotten to the point where I think they're going to have to

46:12do something about them. Well, they put a hunting limit on them, you think?

46:18Honestly, that would probably do something.

46:22But really what you should do is hire someone to recapture them and don't drop

46:27them off there. Don't drop them off in fucking Aspen, you idiot.

46:30Because they're going to eat people's poodles, too.

46:32They don't give a shit.

46:33If they run out of cows, if somehow or another ranchers scare them away from

46:37the cows and they make it into the town of Aspen, you don't think they're

46:40going to eat your golden retriever?

46:42They're going to eat all kinds of dogs.

46:43They eat dogs in Alaska all the time.

46:46Yeah. Yeah, I hear a lot of those, like the lions and stuff, man.

46:50They're coming after your kids.

46:51Yeah. You know, there's been that Malibu Creek Park, you know, I've heard a couple

46:55of incidents there, you know, hit.

46:57It's like, man, they're going to go eat something.

47:00Especially when they're old. Yeah.

47:02When they get old. Mm -hmm.

47:03You know, and they can't catch a deer anymore.

47:06Yeah. And they're hungry and they haven't eaten in a few days.

47:08And then they see a kid hanging around a little too close to the outside

47:12of the woods. I got a big one that comes right by my house.

47:14I got a little game trail camera set up and I got a little fountain

47:17right in the front. And it doesn't come around when I'm there because we got

47:20the dogs, you know, a lot.

47:21But whenever I'm out of town for weeks at a time, I'll come back and

47:24that sucker's just laying on my front porch.

47:27Whoa. Just massive. And then the other day, a friend of mine was taking the

47:32trash out and it was like around lunchtime.

47:35And it jumped over the fence into the driveway and had a dead rabbit in

47:39its mouth just looking at her, you know.

47:41And she's like. Holy shit.

47:43They're there, you know. So every time I'm even walking around by myself or with

47:46the dogs, you're just like, man, that sucker just be in a tree looking at

47:49me right now. Yeah, you're just living with monsters.

47:52Yeah. Whoo. You're there. California spent more than $100 million trying to make a bridge

48:00over, I forget which freeway it is.

48:04I think it's the 101.

48:05Is it the 101? I think you're right.

48:07So they spent over $100 million and it's still not done.

48:11Oh my gosh. For a bridge, a bridge for the mountain lions.

48:15Like you fucking dorks. Oh, it's like this idea of like it's going to be

48:21a bridge, but it's going to have dirt and grass on it.

48:23So it'll encourage them to walk across so they don't have to go over the

48:26highway and die. It's a bit nicer than the roads we're driving on.

48:30Yeah. Well, $110 million is crazy.

48:34And it's still not even done.

48:36Like it's so crazy. So that's what it, early 2026.

48:42It's like going up to Ventura, right?

48:44Yeah. Yeah. So they want to have this big dirt mound and this bridge so

48:51the animals can get across the highway.

48:52But it's just like, it's so goofy.

48:55And they never want people to do anything about the population of mountain lions.

49:00Regardless of how out of control they are, they don't do anything about it.

49:03They have to hire people.

49:04The state has to hire people to go and get the bad mountain lions, the

49:08ones that are problems. And when they capture them, one of the things they find

49:11out is they actually kill them, right?

49:13So one of the things they find out when they examine their diet, it's like

49:1650 % pets. Yeah. 50 % dogs and cats.

49:21That's what your mountain lions are eating.

49:22That's crazy. Yeah. And they spend money, like a lot of money, going after these

49:29mountain lions. And instead, they could make money by letting people hunt these mountain lions

49:34and giving them tags and control the numbers.

49:38In that place, Tejone Ranch, one of my buddies works there.

49:41And they have a trail camera set up on a pond.

49:44And they found 16 different cats that were drinking out of that pond.

49:49Oh, my gosh. That's insane.

49:52I was like, when I first started going out there, too, the coyotes, you know,

49:55and even around like in Hollywood and stuff, you know, I was like, man, I

49:58swear I just saw a coyote running down the street with a pair of sunglasses

50:01on and a gold chain, eating better than any of us.

50:07When I went there in 94, that was the first time I ever saw a

50:10coyote. I couldn't believe it.

50:11I was staying at the, you know, they have those furnished apartments, the Oakwood furnished

50:15apartments. Oh, no, not really.

50:17It's like temporary. Like for people that are like, don't have a house yet and

50:21you got to move to California quick.

50:22They have this place called Oakwoods and you go in there, it's already got a

50:25couch. It's already got a TV.

50:27It's already got a bed.

50:27You're like, okay. Like an Airbnb type of thing.

50:29Yeah, almost like you just move in.

50:31And I was driving up to the entrance to the place and I see these

50:36little dogs on the street.

50:37I was like, what the fuck is going on?

50:39He's dog. That ain't no dog.

50:42I was like, oh my God, they're coyotes.

50:46Like, this is weird. And so this is like 94.

50:49I had never seen a fucking coyote.

50:51I never even heard of a coyote being out just wandering in the street.

50:55I just couldn't believe it that they just wander around on the concrete.

50:59Man, it's, they're everywhere. I feel like I've seen more there than anywhere.

51:03You see them more in town than you do anywhere else.

51:05Yeah. Well, they have large populations of them in downtown where they know where they

51:10den up. They den up in certain warehouse buildings.

51:13Okay. Like abandoned buildings and under bridges and freeways and stuff.

51:18Yeah. They live there. They probably keep the rat population.

51:21Nature will take back over one day, won't it?

51:24Exactly. Yeah. I think they probably keep the rat population in check though.

51:28Yeah. If you think about it.

51:30Yeah. I keep a lot of other things in check too.

51:32Right. Cats. Well, there's a terrible video from Woodland Hills a few years back where

51:38a guy was unloading his car and his toddler was out there in the grass.

51:45I saw that. And the coyote grabbed his toddler and tried to run away with

51:48his kid. Yeah. I saw that, man.

51:50I, you know, I'm always watching around for stuff and when my, our kiddos are

51:56just people around the neighborhood and stuff.

51:57You got to remind, remind yourself, you know, they're, they're there and they're not scared

52:00of you. You know, they're not, they're not afraid.

52:03I remember one of the first times I went up to Ojai, just north of

52:07LA there, you know, and I just wanted to go up there and go hike

52:10around and check out the area.

52:12And there was an archery shop up there and I had this old guy, kind

52:16of looked like Charlie Daniels, just big overalls, big old beard, you know, and I

52:20walked in there and just to check out the shop and also just ask him

52:24about, you know, some areas to go stomp around.

52:26And I had an Australian Shepherd dog at the time and just ask him where,

52:32you know, good places to go stomp around.

52:34He said, yeah, you know, you go up there.

52:36He goes, but I wouldn't take your dog with you.

52:38I was like, really? Why?

52:39And he's like, man, those lions are a real deal up here, you know?

52:42And he's like, you, he goes, you won't see them, you know, until they're on

52:46you. Yeah. Yeah. And I just, you know, I knew they're lions and stuff like

52:50that, but hearing it from, from that guy, you know, maybe he's trying to scare

52:53me a little bit, but you know, there's, I, it's, uh, it's a real deal.

52:58It's real. It's real. And they try to downplay it because the, all the wildlife

53:04lovers, all the greenies, they don't want you, like, sounding the alarm and killing them.

53:10Yeah. What their goal is to have zero hunting.

53:13Their goal is to have all the animals just balance each other out.

53:17I think it'll happen. You can't.

53:19It's not humans in the mix.

53:21No, the humans have interrupted that whole idea.

53:24Right. So if you've got a city and then you've got wild giant predators, like

53:28170 pound cats that are killing dogs and they're like, you got to control them.

53:35Can't manage one without managing the other.

53:37Right. And so the first wet, the first thing they did to stop people from

53:41doing it is they banned hunting with dogs.

53:43So if you ban hunting with dogs, guess what?

53:46You basically, you're killing most of the hunting because the reality of mountain lions is

53:49you can't find them. They're really hard to find, really hard to catch, really hard

53:53to find. And the best way to control their population is to tree them and

53:58you get dogs to tree because that way, you know, if it's a Tom or

54:01if it's a female, you know, if it's mature, you know, what size it is.

54:05You have a really accurate estimation.

54:08You can look up at it.

54:09Oh, that's a mature Tom.

54:10That's what we're looking to kill.

54:12And then you can control their population.

54:14That's the only way. Same with bears.

54:16Yeah. See what it is and decide if it needs to go or if it

54:19needs to stay. Right. Yeah.

54:22Yeah. But they do little things to stop the effective hunting first.

54:26So California, you can still hunt for black bears, but you can't use dogs anymore.

54:31And so as soon as they stopped the use of dogs, the amount of black

54:34bears they harvested went way down.

54:36Yeah. So the amount of bears in the population went way up.

54:39Yeah. I don't think they've, I mean, I know they've been around in Pasadena a

54:43lot, but I don't think there's been one in Topanga for a while.

54:45I mean, I've been up there, shoot, almost 15 years and hadn't heard of one.

54:49This is the first time that one's kind of made it over into that area

54:52that I know of anyway, maybe up, you know, around the Malibu Creek and those

54:58state parks. In Topanga, there's probably people feeding them.

55:01Oh, 100%. I've got berries for you, my friend.

55:05Giving them weed. Some berries.

55:13Topanga's great, but it always catches me out if a fire catches.

55:17Oh, man. We got hit hard last year, as you know, the Palisades stuff.

55:22And man, I didn't, that was kind of it for me, too.

55:25I was like, I'm out, you know.

55:26It's terrifying. I've evacuated out of there several times over the years, but I've got

55:31horses up there. Now, and stuff like that.

55:34And luckily, I had like a, I always keep a big truck and a trailer

55:38just in case. And I've got some friends down in Burbank that have some stables,

55:42you know, that I'll have like as a backup plan.

55:44But this was just a different deal.

55:47As a crow flies, I could see the smoke from the Palisades, you know, like

55:50a mile away. And we were actually working in our arena there, and smoke came

55:55up. And I was like, shoot, let's just go.

55:58Every time I see the smoke, like, I don't wait.

56:00I just say, we'll be the first ones out and beat the mad rush of

56:04everybody that's going to decide to try.

56:06and loaded up the trailer and the truck and the camper and the dogs and

56:11all that stuff and I was like let's go and my wife and I went

56:14down to Burbank and I remember we were driving through the night and the wind

56:18was just howling like I've never seen before and power lines are snapping and it's

56:24just like trees are coming down and it just felt like the end of the

56:28world you know and we get to Burbank and we pull back in these stables

56:32and there's a kind of a big cinder block wall and I just got as

56:37close to that as I could because it was blocking the wind you know from

56:40hitting us and the next morning I woke up and I just my throat was

56:44sore and hurt and I could hardly breathe and I opened the camper door and

56:48the Altadena fire had started and it was right there and so it was just

56:52a mountain of black smoke coming over the top of us there and uh so

56:57like let's go let's get out of here let's like head north and I had

57:00some friends in Moore Park you know up in that area going towards Ventura that

57:03had horses trying to find some places to go with some horses and uh they're

57:08like yeah come on up here so we went up there stayed there a night

57:11and then they cut all the power off up in that area because the winds

57:14were snapping power lines and they were worried about fires and and you know after

57:18doing that a few nights and I was like let's just head east and go

57:21to Texas you know so we just there's always so so many friends you could

57:27like show up with five horses and a bunch of dogs you know like hey

57:30we're gonna stay for a while you know especially in California yeah we're like let's

57:35just get out of here uh and headed back and you didn't know when we

57:38were gonna make it back and they you know closed indefinitely or whatever I was

57:42just like man I'm I'm over it I got evacuated a bunch of times when

57:46I lived there but the last one was uh 2018 and uh when the last

57:51one we got out early I came home from the comedy store and we saw

57:54fire coming over the top of this hill and it was probably like one o

57:58'clock in the morning me and my wife were sitting there I go what do

58:01you think she's like let's get the fuck out of here like let's get the

58:05fuck out of here let's just grab some shit and maybe it'll come this way

58:08maybe it won't so it didn't burn the house down but my neighbors the front

58:13front three neighbors all lost their house and my next door neighbor his his roof

58:17caught on fire but my friend who refused to leave he stayed in the neighborhood

58:22and protected his house and guided firefighters he brought the firefighters to that house and

58:27showed them that it just started on this guy's roof and they hosed it down

58:31they stopped it in his tracks but it was pretty fucking bad but it's wild

58:35because you know it's gonna burn I mean it's not a matter of you know

58:38if it's just a win and I mean that's that's canyons have been burning like

58:42that for thousands of years and yeah even the two match we're setting them on

58:45fire on purpose to get ahead of it right and control and all of that

58:48stuff and now there's just so many houses and communities back up in there it's

58:53that's just a it's a tough thing but when they when they hit man it's

58:57they just they're rolling through how fast they come through those Santa Ana winds are

59:01blowing like that and it's just very surreal in person you can watch it on

59:06the news and you kind of get a feeling of it but when you're there

59:09and you're driving down the 101 and you look at the side of the highway

59:12and you see like these hills in the distance are just covered in fire hundreds

59:17of yards of fields of fire just making their way over the top of this

59:23hill and burning houses and we saw it when the the palisade you know the

59:28palisades thing was start you know from our house there's kind of a little mountain

59:31that comes up I hiked up there and was watching it and you could see

59:35the smoke and then you could like start seeing little flickers of the flames and

59:40then it was just like somebody dumped gasoline on this thing and I mean the

59:45flame shot up hundreds of feet into the air and uh my wife was on

59:51the balcony you know the house and I'm kind of up on this little mountain

59:53I'm looking over looking in her eyes I'm like start packing up I'll start I'll

59:59go hook up the horse trailer I'll be upset let's load up and just and

1:00:04you know the wind was blowing uh like offshore then you know so the fire

1:00:08is like all on the coast you know and just depending on where that how

1:00:13that wind is blowing you know at the beginning it was blowing offshore and then

1:00:17within a half an hour it just shot up the coastline and just ripped up

1:00:22through Malibu and burned all that coast like that's the stuff that you always thought

1:00:26was the safest right you know yeah and then the next day the wind shifts

1:00:30coming back on shore and it blows it back towards Burbank you know going back

1:00:36up like the fourth up that way and then the winds are shifting again and

1:00:39then coming back across you know so I was amazed at the I've through some

1:00:45of the fires that I've been through seeing the firefighters up there those guys are

1:00:48incredible man those helicopter pilots uh the airplane pilots seeing those tankers fly through there

1:00:54I mean it's just incredible what those guys can do I mean if it hadn't

1:00:58I mean they they saved that whole canyon you know of Topanga at least you

1:01:03know it's like man there's so much brush in there that probably needs to burn

1:01:07that's been accumulating over years you know and um cutting those fire breaks and seeing

1:01:12them drop the retarded on the ridge lines and stuff and watching the wind it's

1:01:16just like man hats off to those guys absolutely yeah I mean think about the

1:01:22amount of damage that was done in that fire and how much more would have

1:01:25been done if it wasn't for the firefighters that's how crazy it is yeah yeah

1:01:30it is man I met one of the uh helicopter pilots I was on a

1:01:34flight somewhere and we just happened to be sitting next to each other and we

1:01:38were talking about it and just you know learning from him you know about you

1:01:42know the thermals that come up from underneath and trying to hold those helicopters and

1:01:48you know in formation and all that stuff and how heavy they are when they're

1:01:52full right and then as soon as you release all that water whatever's in them

1:01:56that you know all of a sudden that the power that they got you know

1:01:59throttles full throttle you know when they're loaded down and then they drop all that

1:02:02water and then you know trying to get back a hold of it and oh

1:02:06I never even thought of that and then you got then you got be an

1:02:09enormous difference 90 mile an hour winds blowing and you know and you I could

1:02:14see them from the house you know there'd be like two or three helicopters that

1:02:17would come in start dropping water and then they would move out And then the

1:02:21planes would come in, and then helicopters back in.

1:02:25And then you had the guys on the ground, you know, trying to contain it

1:02:29as well. Just the coordinated effort between them, you know.

1:02:32I can imagine the conversations there.

1:02:34Yeah. Hey, man. It's so crazy that they didn't have the reservoirs ready.

1:02:39Oh, dude, it's so sad.

1:02:41I had Spencer Pratt on.

1:02:43You know, he's running for mayor now.

1:02:45He was explaining it, like how bad it was.

1:02:47Yeah. How do you fuck that up that bad?

1:02:50It's devastating to hear that it's like you know that that stuff's coming, you know.

1:02:56It's just to not be prepared for that.

1:02:58It's just unacceptable. Incompetence. Yeah.

1:03:01Just complete, total incompetence, and yet they still are there.

1:03:06Yeah. Like you're definitely not good at the job, and yet you don't take any

1:03:13personal responsibility and blame everybody else, and the problem, it's just fucking, it's a problem

1:03:22that happens every few years.

1:03:23Like you're going to get fires, period.

1:03:25The fact that you don't have a full reservoir is crazy.

1:03:29It's crazy. Yeah. You should dump all your resources into fixing that fucking reservoir.

1:03:33Stat. Get that shit filled up.

1:03:35The residents are more prepared than anybody, you know, because I think they just got

1:03:40to where they, you can't depend on it, you know.

1:03:43I mean, I know our neighbors and stuff have a pretty good program in place.

1:03:47We'll all get together and talk about, you know, who's got fire hoses and swimming

1:03:51pools with access to water and where, you know, evacuation plans or, you know, there's

1:03:56some folks that have horses, but they don't even have a horse trailer up there.

1:04:00And, you know, I'm like, okay, I'll come get yours too or whatever, you know,

1:04:03you know, we need to do.

1:04:04And you kind of just have to have that mentality, I think, you know.

1:04:09Yeah, definitely. Definitely. It's, you know, what's really freaking me out about like the Palisades

1:04:15is what is in the ground now?

1:04:19You know, like how much toxic shit got melted into that ground?

1:04:23Because think about how many people have electric cars now.

1:04:26Well, all those old houses too.

1:04:28You know what I'm talking about, the materials that they're made out of, asbestos or

1:04:32lead. I mean, the stuff in the air that was, even if you, you know,

1:04:37you were several miles away from the actual fires, the wind and blowing all the

1:04:41ashes and the smoke and all that stuff over.

1:04:44I remember going back up in there, you know, weeks and just trying to get

1:04:47stuff out of the house or whatever when they'd let us back up.

1:04:50And you could still, it would just make your throat hurt, you know, breathing that

1:04:54air and stuff. So it's bad stuff.

1:04:56It's not just wood fire.

1:04:58Yeah. No. No. Like chemicals.

1:05:00Yeah. Wood fire is hard enough, but the chemicals, burnt TVs and computers and hard

1:05:06drives and electronics and refrigerators.

1:05:10Treated lumber. Yeah. All that shit's going to get in your groundwater.

1:05:15Like it's, it's, it's on the surface.

1:05:17It's going to rain. It's going to seep through.

1:05:20Like what happens to the water?

1:05:21Is anybody checking the water out there?

1:05:24No, you got to imagine.

1:05:26I doubt it. Especially like Topanga.

1:05:28I bet a lot of folks have wells.

1:05:30Don't you think? I think there's some, you know, it's definitely all like on septic

1:05:34up there too. You know, I mean, all the, all of the building code stuff's

1:05:38got pretty crazy up there.

1:05:39I don't know. It's a mess.

1:05:42I would just worry about even breathing the air that has the dust of all

1:05:46that shit in it. Like I probably wouldn't want to live there anymore.

1:05:50If, if I was in a place where all the houses burnt to the ground

1:05:53and I knew there was toxic shit in the ground, I'd be like, Hey, let's

1:05:57get the fuck out of here and sell our house to China.

1:06:01Oh man. Cause that was the other thing Spencer said.

1:06:04They're the ones who are the number one land buyers in the Palisades.

1:06:07It's China. Is it going to be a, is it going to be a golf

1:06:10course resort up there before we know it?

1:06:12Who knows? Yeah. Or affordable housing.

1:06:15Yeah. One or the other.

1:06:17I don't know either. I don't know, but it's just, I really wonder what the

1:06:22longterm damage of all those chemicals in the ground is.

1:06:25It has to be pretty high.

1:06:28Gotta be, you know, I don't know.

1:06:29You know, I was talking to some friends of mine out the other day that

1:06:32have grown up there, lived out there their whole lives and, you know, going over

1:06:35the channel islands, you, you know, they've got those oil platforms out there in the

1:06:39water and there's been oil spills obviously throughout there through history.

1:06:42And, um, but also like when you're surfing and stuff like that, there's oil that's

1:06:46been on top of the ground.

1:06:48It's just like so surface level.

1:06:49It's been there for millions of years, you know?

1:06:51And so I don't know, you know, it's like, I'm sure all the toxic stuff

1:06:56that happens, how long does it take for it to dilute?

1:06:59You know, there's not much rain or the wind or like what, you know, I'm

1:07:03not an expert on it, but I, I feel like mother nature takes pretty good

1:07:07care of herself. You know, we're, we're the ones in trouble, right?

1:07:11Right. Mother nature has sorted it out over time, but I just don't know how

1:07:15good it's going to be for the people that live there.

1:07:17It can't be, can't be the longterm, you know?

1:07:19I have a buddy that has a house out there and he lost his house

1:07:22and it burnt down and I asked him about it.

1:07:23He said, I think what they're going to do is take all the dirt out

1:07:26of their backyard and then replace the dirt.

1:07:28And I'm like, okay, I don't know if that's enough.

1:07:34Like, cause what about his dirt?

1:07:35What about your neighbor's dirt?

1:07:36What about the, all the toxic shit that's in his dirt that's going to get

1:07:39down into your ground as soon as it rains?

1:07:42And also the air. A lot with all the roundup and everything else is coming

1:07:46down. You know, it's, it's just, it's, it's sad, man.

1:07:52You know, it's sad. That's just the kind of the state of it.

1:07:54It's like, it's, it seems like just, it's so far of a mess that even

1:07:59the folks that do have answers that do want to fix stuff, it just kind

1:08:02of becomes impossible for, for any solution.

1:08:05You know, it's like all the red tape and all the hoops and things and

1:08:09all the permits or whatever you're like, you can't even, you know, the road's blocked.

1:08:14Okay. Well, before we could even get somebody out here with a tractor to move

1:08:18the rocks, you got to call 10 other people to get it approved.

1:08:20And then the process and then it's not, and it's like, that's the part I'm

1:08:23just like, man, I wish I could just call Frank down the street with his

1:08:26bulldozer. We'll just go, we'll just go and move this right now, you know?

1:08:30And it's like, you know, well, government has increased so much in California.

1:08:34And they just want more regulations so they could justify more government And so they

1:08:39just regulate themselves to a place where people just want to leave Yeah, just go

1:08:43look. I can't fucking do this anymore.

1:08:44Let me get out of here.

1:08:45And it's expensive man. It's so expensive.

1:08:48Yeah Meanwhile, it's beautiful. It's such a great place.

1:08:52They fucked it up so hard.

1:08:53It's paradise. It's part of the mountains within like Two three hours you can be

1:08:58in the Sierras. You can be in Joshua Tree, National Park Skiing.

1:09:03Yeah, and then swim in the ocean on the same day.

1:09:05It's gorgeous. Yeah, beautiful places I've ever been Yosemite I mean get out of town,

1:09:10you know incredible weather Kern River man.

1:09:14It's beautiful, but They got ruined they got ruined with progressive politics and bureaucracy that

1:09:22just Ramped up all the control they have over people to the point where you

1:09:26can't even buy flavored zins They banned blackjack.

1:09:33You can't have blackjack anymore.

1:09:35They just stopped blackjack in the casinos.

1:09:37They stopped flavored zins They just regulated into oblivion.

1:09:43They're all these people that want to be they want to be the mommy of

1:09:46the world And tell you what to do like fuck off Yeah, like fuck off

1:09:52with all your goddamn rules You're just making your government bigger so you can justify

1:09:57All these fucking rules and you need the rules for the government to sustain itself

1:10:02So you just keep adding more rules and adding more government.

1:10:06Yeah, we were reading about it the other day Like what was the number the

1:10:09California's government went up by like 24 % and their population went up by like

1:10:141 % I know and I run it kind of we're running out of places

1:10:19to go I forget what the actual numbers were that we found, but it's Yeah,

1:10:24I'm always looking for hideouts, you know to kind of get away from it's like

1:10:27man You you find a spot to go to you kind of don't want to

1:10:30tell nobody You know, that's what I hear about West Texas.

1:10:34I think that's hard about Montana.

1:10:36You know when I first started going up there years ago I mean, it's just

1:10:39such a and still is it's a paradise It's just you know, and I think

1:10:45that's why what a lot of people were upset about lived up there It's like

1:10:47man. See the secret got out a little bit and I can understand that but

1:10:51I get it I get it from that Where's the next I gotta let that

1:10:53go where's the next place, you know the thing about Montana though or like Wyoming?

1:10:58Another example is that winter will thin the herd It's like West Texas like yeah,

1:11:04that's funny same kind of thing like, you know Marfa and out in that area

1:11:08You know, I grew up all out there going to junior rodeos and all kinds

1:11:11of stuff and it was just ranches, you know and look, you know local diners

1:11:15and stuff like that and You know I hear people going out there and buying

1:11:20houses and you know all that stuff Then they go out there for like a

1:11:22week and they realize that the only thing open at night's the dairy queen They're

1:11:27heading back to New York pretty quick, you know Yeah, but the thing you're right

1:11:31about Montana those winters will thin them out.

1:11:33Yeah, winter gets you the winter's rough It's cold.

1:11:37Yeah, we were uh, the first time I ever went hunting was with ranella That's

1:11:41where I got that mule deer that's on the table right there And um, it

1:11:45was nine degrees in October and we're camping And so we're sleeping on the ground

1:11:50and nine degrees. I'm like, bro How did these fucking people and you also you

1:11:55go by these old homesteads?

1:11:57So they were giving land out there for people You just you can get a

1:12:02chunk of land just start farming on it and the government was encouraging people to

1:12:06prove it up but yeah, it's all this like Muddy ground like the ground is

1:12:11like mucky like when you hike in it after You know a while your boots

1:12:16are so heavy because they're just Just thick with this clay.

1:12:20Yeah, just muck all over your boots and so it's not fertile It's not good

1:12:25like in the Missouri breaks like that area.

1:12:27It's not good for growing things So you find these abandoned homesteads.

1:12:32It's really eerie Yeah, man You just think like this family that came out here

1:12:36and like the 1800s and they tried to set up shop and Maybe got killed

1:12:41by Indians and you know, maybe all the way I think about my family and

1:12:46I've got stories, you know of them settling in New Mexico and You know coming

1:12:51out on a with it on a covered wagon with maybe a steer and a

1:12:54pig and they're like, yeah Here's you a bunch of acres and you got to

1:12:57prove it up, you know and Dig a hole in the ground is what they're

1:13:01living in a dugout, you know and dig a hole in the ground That's where

1:13:04you're living and you try to build a ranch out of it.

1:13:06And I Always laugh I was talking to Family or my grandparents.

1:13:11I was like, why did y 'all stop here?

1:13:14You just thought you were so beat down you're like, oh, this is the driest

1:13:18flattest place Yeah, but we're here the most roughest, you know I was like it's

1:13:23only maybe another thousand miles out to California or just keep going They're like, nope.

1:13:28This is it. We're done, you know Yeah, I guess people didn't know what they

1:13:32were gonna find if they kept going either like you want to keep going for

1:13:36like another month Oh, yeah, just miles and miles of more desert and yeah, no

1:13:41water Yeah, I mean how long would that wagon trail take weeks?

1:13:46Even just like Missouri, Texas and then out to Through what even like just going

1:13:51through West Texas to get to, you know, southeast New Mexico and all that and

1:13:55then you're in You know, that's just rough country and the people have always been

1:13:58tough out there And you're a sitting duck Yeah, you're a sitting duck You're slow

1:14:04moving with a wagon pulling the horse and you got all your shit in the

1:14:07wagon and they just looking at you from the hills Yeah Wasn't glamorous.

1:14:13No I know my, you know, my granddad was pretty tough old guy and is

1:14:19real a cowboys you'd ever want to know or meet, you know But he wasn't

1:14:25really one to ever brag or, you know, talk or fantasize or romanticize about the

1:14:29cowboy stuff, you know Because it it wasn't romantic then, you know, it was survival

1:14:35and it was rough and it was work and you know I had no running

1:14:38water and I remember him having a conversation with this guy and he was like

1:14:43some like a tech guy, you know He invented all this website shit or whatever

1:14:47and he was asking my granddad he said He invented all this website shit or

1:14:49something like that shit or something like that shit or something like that shit or

1:14:49something like that shit You know, what's the most, you know, important invention of your

1:14:52lifetime? And I think he was expecting my granddad to say, like, the computer or

1:14:56the internet. And my granddad said refrigeration was the most important invention, you know.

1:15:02Yeah. When he was growing up, he was like, they had no way to keep

1:15:05their food cold, you know, other than, like, root cellar, you kept it underground, you

1:15:09know. So it was just a perspective, you know.

1:15:12I think everybody was surprised to hear it, you know.

1:15:14Well, I think people are so accustomed to electricity and so accustomed to things like

1:15:18refrigeration. Yeah. You just, like.

1:15:20They're running water, yeah. Yeah.

1:15:21Yeah. I mean, when there was no refrigeration, you had to eat what you had,

1:15:26you know, like that day.

1:15:28And then the next day, you had to get something else.

1:15:30Yeah. And unless you knew a place that was an ice house, you know, that

1:15:37would get a giant chunk of ice and you could have an ice box and

1:15:41stick it in there and cool things.

1:15:42Mm -hmm. Like, you're fucked.

1:15:44Yeah. You're on your own.

1:15:46Yeah. Well, you had to learn how to dry meat.

1:15:49That was a lot of it.

1:15:50Make pemmican dry meat. Make things that'll survive and last.

1:15:57And, you know, that's also how market hunting almost wiped out all the deer in

1:16:01this country because people needed fresh meat every day.

1:16:04Mm -hmm. So, they were just shooting everything that existed.

1:16:08Yeah. And then finally, they started looking around and going, hey, we lost all the

1:16:11elk. There's no more deer left.

1:16:13Like, let's make some fucking regulations on this shit.

1:16:16Mm -hmm. And they stopped market hunting.

1:16:18I did not know that.

1:16:20Yeah. It's interesting. Beginning of the 1800s by, you know, the time, I guess, when

1:16:27did they start doing regulations in terms of hunting regulations in this country?

1:16:34Because, obviously, they wiped out almost entirely the American bison.

1:16:38They were almost gone completely.

1:16:40And, you know, a lot of that was just for tongues.

1:16:43No, man, that's crazy. Yeah, they would send them back east.

1:16:46They would pickle their tongues.

1:16:47Didn't Steve Rinella have something like a show on them?

1:16:50My buddy was telling me.

1:16:51He's got a great book, too.

1:16:52I haven't seen it yet.

1:16:52It's really interesting. He's talking about the history of the bison and hunting and all

1:16:56of that, yeah. Yeah, I think his book's called American Buffalo, but it's really good.

1:17:02First hunting regulations appeared in colonial laws in the 1600s, mainly as seasonal closed seasons

1:17:09for certain game -like deer.

1:17:10In terms of nationwide U .S.

1:17:12law, the first major federal game protection statute was the Lacey Act of 1900, which

1:17:18targeted commercial and market hunting and interstate trade in illegally taken wildlife.

1:17:24Yeah, there was elk in every state.

1:17:27Yeah. And we wiped them out.

1:17:28And there was deer in every state.

1:17:30But now there's more deer than there ever has been before, which is interesting.

1:17:35Congress passed the Lacey Act.

1:17:37And when modern regulations start, so the 1900s, most states had game and fish commissions,

1:17:45hunting seasons, bag limits, and license requirements, all reinforced by federal laws like the Lacey

1:17:51Act and later migratory bird protections.

1:17:54Well, it's amazing that they did that.

1:17:57We have an amazing system, too.

1:17:59Like, the fact that the United States has so much public land, you know, there's

1:18:04so many different places where people can go and they can hike, they can whitewater

1:18:08raft, they can fish, they can hunt, they can camp.

1:18:11I mean, we're unlike any country when it comes to that.

1:18:15It's like, the amount of land that we have that's available to Americans, that every,

1:18:20it's public for everybody, is fucking incredible.

1:18:23Yeah. I mean, being up in Montana, New Mexico's like that, too, and California, but

1:18:28up in Montana, what I love, you know, staying in that wilderness area, like that

1:18:31little cabin that I stayed in, you know, probably didn't have much land with the

1:18:36cabin. But man, there's thousands and thousands of acres of wilderness public land with dirt

1:18:42roads everywhere. And man, I would, you know, on those days off that I had,

1:18:47I would just drive back in there for miles, man, and just see the most

1:18:51beautiful country, you know, and I'd haul my horse back in the way of the

1:18:55trailheads and just go explore stuff, you know, and you'd go over one ridge into

1:19:00the next, and there's a waterfall, and there's another drainage, and it's just like, you

1:19:05know, and this is the wilderness area, too.

1:19:07This isn't even a national park, you know.

1:19:09I was like, man, this is as beautiful country as I've ever seen anywhere.

1:19:13Did you run into any chrisleys?

1:19:14I never did, you know, I was always on my toes about it, and I'd

1:19:20talk, you know, knowing Remy up there, he knew that area really well, so I'd

1:19:23kind of ask him spots to go check out and about bears and stuff, and

1:19:27he said, man, there weren't too many grizzlies back in there, but you never know,

1:19:30you know, especially coming over from Idaho and stuff like that.

1:19:33So I never did. I've run into some black bears, never in any wolves and

1:19:39all that, but, you know, I don't know, maybe being horseback, too, I don't know,

1:19:44a lot of those places I never did, but I definitely had my eyes open.

1:19:49Yeah, that's another animal that they want to list again and make them available for

1:19:54hunting, particularly in Montana and Wyoming.

1:19:57They just have a lot of grizzlies.

1:19:59Yeah. They have a lot, and people don't want you to shoot them.

1:20:03They think of it as trophy hunting or whatever it is.

1:20:06It's tough, man, but, man, you live, like you said, like those folks that live

1:20:09back up in there, you know, all they have is their neighbors and people to

1:20:13depend on, you know, and it's like, man, you get mauled by a bear taking

1:20:16your trash out, you know, or something like that.

1:20:18That's what your experience is with them, and, you know, everybody wants to keep them

1:20:24as pets until they're in the backyard with you.

1:20:26Yeah. They don't play by the rules.

1:20:30Yeah. They don't play by the rules, and they're 900 pounds.

1:20:32Good luck, that 900 -pound giant fucking wild animal that eats everything it can.

1:20:38Yeah. Even like that lion hanging around my house, it's like, man, cool, you're fine,

1:20:42but why why don't you go on down the road, you know?

1:20:44Yeah. I don't need you in my backyard.

1:20:48The thing is that you can't do anything about it either.

1:20:50In Texas, you could just shoot them.

1:20:52Yeah. Yeah, we don't have that problem.

1:20:54Yeah, that's how it should be.

1:20:56Yeah. Like, you shouldn't have wild monsters living in your yard.

1:21:00No. And you should have the right to say it.

1:21:03paid that for yourself a hundred percent not only that they're going to be fine

1:21:07there's still going to be plenty of them yeah okay but it'll probably be a

1:21:10more healthy number if they get whacked whenever they eat someone's dog yeah and have

1:21:14a healthy respect for coming in your backyard or coming after your exactly your kids

1:21:18yeah yeah they they should understand that but just like we're so goofy we make

1:21:24laws to protect them that don't protect us like help me out like do you

1:21:31love animals more than people like i love animals but i'm i'm on team people

1:21:37yeah 100 yeah everybody else is cool but team people first yeah you know oh

1:21:43we got monsters in our neighborhood no no no no no we gotta kill the

1:21:46monsters so the kids can play outside you don't have to worry about them getting

1:21:50eaten yeah me too i mean growing up ranching or farming or whatever i mean

1:21:55that's your job is to take care of animals you know yeah it's animal husbandry

1:21:59it's it's that's your job i mean to take care and provide for these animals

1:22:05to provide food for your family you know and um and the wildlife that's around

1:22:10it you know it's like and to take care of the land and the dirt

1:22:12and the water and the grasses and all of that stuff has to be supporting

1:22:17each other to make it all work you know and uh at the end of

1:22:22the day i just feel like we've just lost touch it's cities that you know

1:22:26it's urban environments it's unnatural environments that have given people this delusional idea of what

1:22:32our relationship is with nature and you know people just think food comes from a

1:22:37restaurant yeah and you know the ground is for streets and you drive sidewalks yeah

1:22:44pave it all it's all just this delusional perspective that comes from that sort of

1:22:49urban existence and i just think that's why people that live in the country and

1:22:54live in you know environments where like alaska where you're confronted by nature they're like

1:23:00more interesting people they're more robust they're cooler were you singing out there earlier that

1:23:06you rode bulls yeah dude how many times shoot i started when i was a

1:23:14kid you know riding steers when i was like 10 and the junior rodeos and

1:23:18then you were 10 years old and someone let you ride a fucking steer really

1:23:23that's it was just like it was like little league baseball you know where i

1:23:26grew up so a steer is a bull that doesn't have its nuts yeah and

1:23:33so how much less do they kick when they don't have their nuts oh they're

1:23:36a lot they're pretty docile how old are you here this is i was like

1:23:4317 this is in uh monterey mexico actually wow why in mexico look at you

1:23:50dog damn that's crazy damn dude you're good and you got off without getting stomped

1:23:59too yeah is it just knowing when to release yeah you gotta know you gotta

1:24:04know when to get off that's for sure and right there uh -huh you're like

1:24:07that's a wrap yeah he kind of bucked me off there he kind of had

1:24:11me over to the side you know but that's a good time to check out

1:24:14there's like that gray zone you know either that or you hang on and you

1:24:18end up underneath them you started out when you were 10 years old though how

1:24:22wild are your parents like yeah that's a good age yeah they you know my

1:24:26they've ranched and grew up out there and my my uncle rode bulls professionally and

1:24:30oh really yeah and uh that's kind of how i got into it too i

1:24:34looked up to him a lot and uh see pictures of him riding bulls and

1:24:38then it was just around and i was like i want to go try that

1:24:41you know and and then i just got the bug for it like super young

1:24:45i was like just ate up with it just wow from 10 years old that's

1:24:49nuts yeah and so how do you teach someone how to fall off of a

1:24:54bull without getting stomped when they're 10 well when you're riding those little steers you

1:24:58know a lot of time they cut bulls and turn them to steers it makes

1:25:01them a lot more docile steers are you know typically like 600 pounds six 700

1:25:08pounds you know compared to 1500 pound bull that's aggressive and you know back that

1:25:13wide and horns like that you know they're like little steer you know i remember

1:25:18my dad or uncle would get in the chute with me and hold their horns

1:25:21you know and like these times they just kind of run out there and jump

1:25:24and kick and not fall off on the side yeah not too bad um and

1:25:30then you kind of graduate up into like the junior bulls and then the bigger

1:25:33bulls and then all and then the harder they buck you know so there's kind

1:25:37of different levels you can progress as you as you go but it was a

1:25:42lot different deal back then when i was riding it was really before the pbr

1:25:45started you know there was no helmets there was no vests there was like none

1:25:49of that stuff it was just old school rodeo you know but at the same

1:25:54time i say that but you know it's it's an evolved in such a sport

1:25:59now like the bulls are just so much ranker now than they were back then

1:26:02you know it's like now they're breeding them like racehorses and the genetics where every

1:26:07one of those bulls you know bucks you know and like you got to go

1:26:11to get on three or four of them in the night you know back when

1:26:13i was doing it we'd go to the they were still kind of full rodeos

1:26:16with all the other events and you know out of 15 or 20 bulls there

1:26:20might be one or two in there that were like bad to get on that

1:26:24would hurt you you know the the rest of them were pretty rideable you know

1:26:27just to say so and you know we're smoking cigarettes and drinking beer back behind

1:26:32the chutes so you know that kind of a thing you know we we weren't

1:26:35training and doing yoga and like all these guys are today you know but i

1:26:43i loved it i had so much fun and i loved the road part of

1:26:46it you know get in the truck with your best buds and go down the

1:26:50road on the weekends and there's always a band playing and um you know it

1:26:54was just it was so much fun i loved the culture of it and it's

1:26:58just uh good times you know how many times you think you've rode bulls i

1:27:02mean i rode till i was about 23 from 10 to 23 wow that was

1:27:07all i ever wanted to do really yeah i wanted to just ride bulls yeah

1:27:11and uh you know i rode in high school i rode junior rodeos rode bulls

1:27:16in high school and then i went to tar in state and stevenville and uh

1:27:20road bulls for tarleton and then i got my pro card for a couple of

1:27:24years and that was when like the pbr was like starting up and all of

1:27:29that and um wow it got intense it's a few backwards on one what jamie

1:27:36there's one picture i just lost he was backwards on it oh yeah i was

1:27:40probably getting there it is i was probably getting dusted oh no that's not that's

1:27:44not that's not that guy is about riding backwards i don't know if that's on

1:27:50purpose that seems like a ridiculous choice he pulled it off if he did yeah

1:27:57what a terrible choice yeah it was cool though i i loved it man i

1:28:03loved it how do you go from that to anything else like how do you

1:28:09stop riding bulls and eventually become an actor and a singer it was all very

1:28:14much a kind of a natural progression you know since i was a kid at

1:28:18the junior rodeos there was always a dance afterward and a band playing you know

1:28:21and it's a very much a family community deal you know like you go to

1:28:26these towns and those are the junior the rodeo was going on and the dance

1:28:30street dance and uh food and music and you know growing up listening to bands

1:28:36play especially in texas you know you got all the guys like gary p nun

1:28:39i remember he always played the dance halls and you get robert earl keen and

1:28:44some of the you know growing here in those bands and um i moved to

1:28:48laredo texas when i was like 16 or 17 when my dad and my mother

1:28:53had bought me a guitar and uh didn't know how to play it much and

1:28:58uh walked into this place my dad was living at and he's playing dominoes with

1:29:02these guys and this guy saw my guitar and he's like yeah you know how

1:29:06to play that thing i said no and he said well let me see it

1:29:09and he picked it up and he played this killer like mariachi song called la

1:29:12malagueña and i was just fascinated with it i was just like wow i can't

1:29:17believe you made that guitar sound like that you know i've been dragging that thing

1:29:20around for a couple years i didn't even know how to tune it up and

1:29:22uh he's like you want to learn how to play this guitar i said yeah

1:29:25he said let me show you this song he taught me the malagueña it had

1:29:30a couple little parts you know a finger picking part it's a strumming part and

1:29:34uh it really kind of gave me the that foundation you know just kind of

1:29:38those few little tools and then i went up to stevenville to ride bulls at

1:29:42tarleton after that and uh a couple of other friends that i'd met there that

1:29:46rodeoed could play the guitar a little bit and they had bands that played every

1:29:49weekend uh in the town there's a little bar there called city limits where all

1:29:53these bands would come play like jason boland and the cross -canadian ragweed guys and

1:29:58pat green and uh robert earl keen like all the texas guys would come play

1:30:02you know so i was like i went from being on the border and just

1:30:06kind of just mostly like the carillos and tejano bands that i would see which

1:30:09was really cool but when i got up there i was like oh man there's

1:30:11all these like cool kind of song you know guys writing the original music and

1:30:16songs and playing in bands and um we'd go watch them all the time and

1:30:21uh as i was still rodeoing the only song i knew was that um malagueña

1:30:26tune so i was like i gotta come up with some new stuff that's all

1:30:29i know how to play you know so i went and got a book of

1:30:32chords to teach myself some new chords on the guitar and we just learned one

1:30:36or two at a time and i'd start making up songs about our adventures on

1:30:39the weekends you know a lot of it was just sitting in the back of

1:30:42the truck and being in places where you didn't have radio signal or you know

1:30:45nothing to really listen to you're tired of listening to the same old stuff and

1:30:49i'd make up songs and then whatever town we would get to my buddies be

1:30:53like man play that song you were singing in the back seat you know and

1:30:56and so that's how the whole songwriting thing started and then um i ended up

1:31:01getting a job working for a guy named mac altizer he had a rodeo company

1:31:05called bad company rodeo in del rio and i'd ridden bulls at some of his

1:31:11rodeos and knew him my uncle knew him you know over the years and so

1:31:14i was kind of familiar with with uh that whole thing and uh started working

1:31:19for him on the ranch and helping with some of the rodeo stuff and still

1:31:22riding bulls and he found out that i could play the guitar and and sing

1:31:26a few songs and he always had a party at the rodeo he was kind

1:31:30of notorious and famous for having like just awesome parties and he's like man all

1:31:34right bingham get your guitar you're gonna play like the after party you know and

1:31:37pull the flatbed trailer up there for the hospitality tent for all the contestants after

1:31:41the rodeo and those are like the first he really encouraged me to like start

1:31:45playing for people and doing that and then it would just spill over into the

1:31:49bars afterwards after the rodeo and everybody would end up going to the bar and

1:31:52i was like bingham bring your guitar with you and uh i started getting gigs

1:31:57in the bars the bars would ask me to if i wanted to come back

1:32:00and play and just after like i feel like a few years of that it

1:32:04was just like you know i was kind of a weekend warrior riding bulls i

1:32:08was definitely not gonna making a living doing it always had to have a day

1:32:12job during the week you know either working on the ranch or doing something and

1:32:16uh i started getting to where i could go to these bars and make like

1:32:19a hundred bucks and tips you know within a couple of hours and get free

1:32:24beer and free food and i was like man this is almost as much as

1:32:27i made all day digging holes with the shovel you know so it didn't take

1:32:31me long to figure out that that was pretty cool and uh i was just

1:32:35like i'm gonna stick with it you know what a organic sort of a journey

1:32:40you know like a natural progression yeah and i didn't have high expectations you know

1:32:46but i just like and i was talking about kind of community in this austin

1:32:50area and in texas in general it's just like man people were so supportive then

1:32:54of just like if you had a song to play it people loved live music

1:32:57they're like yeah get up and play you know like mac with the rodeo company

1:33:01and all the guys that worked there dave jennings and casey and smirt there's a

1:33:06whole crew of the bad company crew from those days and they always had kind

1:33:09of the bad company house band too where everybody would get up and try to

1:33:12play a song and it's just like man we don't care if it's any good

1:33:16or not just get up there and play we're all we're all in it together

1:33:18and there were so many like places that were like that that i i don't

1:33:22think if i was in that environment i probably would have never pursued it you

1:33:25know i said so many people you know supporting you and encouraging you to try

1:33:29it and it took me a long time you know to Work stuff out and

1:33:34learn because I didn't have any really formal musical background or lessons or training.

1:33:40I really just learned it on the road and playing in bars and from other

1:33:44musicians. Really? So no lessons at all?

1:33:47Just kind of figuring it out along the way?

1:33:49Yeah. Well, the guy taught me the La Malagania there, but then after that it

1:33:53was just, you know, anybody else who had a guitar and might know a song,

1:33:58you know, I'm like, oh, how do you play that chord?

1:34:00You know, like, oh, you play it like this, you know?

1:34:03Yeah. Wow. So how many years were you doing that before you got Yellowstone?

1:34:13Oh, gosh, for a while.

1:34:15I mean, I think my, you know, I was 22 or something like that in

1:34:21Stephenville, you know, Ryan Bull, starting to play songs, trying to play gigs.

1:34:28After, you know, ended up moving down here to New Braunfels and the Austin area,

1:34:33playing music for a while, and then ended up going out to Los Angeles and

1:34:36playing and then hit the road with a band for, I think I had four

1:34:41or five albums or so, you know, out, you know, and been touring for five

1:34:46or six years. I think, how old was I, like, when Yellowstone started?

1:34:52Like, 36, 37. So, yeah, I'd been playing, doing the music stuff for a long

1:34:57time. Hmm. And so how did the Yellowstone, how'd you go from music to Yellowstone?

1:35:02Like, how'd you even, did you do any acting before that?

1:35:06No, I'd been one, I'd done a film with Jeff Bridges years ago called Crazy

1:35:10Heart and wrote some songs for that movie.

1:35:13And that was really my own thing.

1:35:15Oh, I've known to that movie.

1:35:15That was a good movie.

1:35:16It was pretty cool. You know, I was just like, Jeff Bridges plays a musician

1:35:21in the show, and we're, like, the backup band at the bowling alley for one

1:35:25of the scenes, you know, which was really cool.

1:35:29And then written some songs for some other films and some TV shows since then,

1:35:34and I met a guy named John Lentz out in Los Angeles.

1:35:38He's a producer, and him and his dad, Art Lentz, and they did, like, Sons

1:35:42of Anarchy, a bunch of shows and a bunch of great movies.

1:35:46And he introduced me to Taylor, and Taylor was, I think it was that movie

1:35:52Wind River, his first movie.

1:35:54You know, I'd met Taylor and just kind of talk about music and stuff, and

1:35:58he wanted me to write a song for Wind River.

1:36:00And I'd given it a shot a couple times, never really had anything that fit

1:36:04for what he wanted, but he ended up using a song that I'd already written.

1:36:08And we just kind of kept in touch, and then when the Yellowstone thing came

1:36:11up, he got in touch again about writing some songs for the show.

1:36:16And then he learned that I used to do all the rodeo stuff, I think,

1:36:18and grew up ranching. And he's like, well, shoot, you can do a lot of

1:36:22this stuff. I've got to find a way to get you in the show, you

1:36:24know? And it literally went from the conversation.

1:36:27He was like, well, I don't know what I'm going to do with you, but

1:36:30I'll find something to do with you, you know?

1:36:32And he literally said, he's like, you know, if you do good, I'll, you know,

1:36:36he goes, if you suck, I'll kill you off.

1:36:38If you do good, I'll keep you on.

1:36:41Something like that, you know?

1:36:42And I'm like, yeah, I'm going to go to that.

1:36:44So you had no formal acting, like, training or anything?

1:36:47No, not at all. That's what's amazing, dude.

1:36:50No. You're really good. Oh, I appreciate that, you know?

1:36:53I get to kind of play a cowboy and be a little bit of myself.

1:36:57Yeah, but it's, that role's got some complexity to it.

1:37:01It's not just a cowboy.

1:37:03It's like, you've got some complicated scenes, you know, some emotional scenes, some deep scenes,

1:37:08and you're really good, man.

1:37:10Thank you. That's impressive. I appreciate that.

1:37:12It was, I enjoyed it, you know?

1:37:14I hadn't done much acting at all, and I got to give a lot of

1:37:18credit to the actors that are on the show, too, you know, those folks that

1:37:21have really studied it and paid their dues learning that craft, you know, they really

1:37:27create the environment, you know, especially for me not knowing much about it, you know,

1:37:32and just kind of being a part of the scene.

1:37:33Like, they're so good that they make you react in a certain way.

1:37:37Right. You know, they know how to get it out of you.

1:37:40Yeah. Whether, you know, Cole and Kelly and Luke and all those folks, you know,

1:37:44they know how to set up the scene.

1:37:46They know what they're doing.

1:37:47So they already kind of have the whole thing set up.

1:37:50And so when I walk into a scene and they say they're lying to me,

1:37:53it's just like, oh, okay, yeah, I got to answer.

1:37:56Right. Like, I'm just, like, kind of, like, naturally, you know, answering that, you know?

1:38:01Right, right, yeah. It's like if you work with a really good actor, sometimes you

1:38:05forget they're acting. You're like, oh, like, oh, yeah, we're acting.

1:38:09Like, you seem like this is really happening.

1:38:11Yeah, yeah, yeah. For me, like, I think it was moments when I thought it

1:38:14was really happening. How long did it take before you got comfortable, like, doing that

1:38:18on camera? Still not. Really?

1:38:21Yeah, still not, yeah. Well, you play it off good.

1:38:23Well, thanks, you know. I think some of it comes from the riding bulls, you

1:38:27know. You learn how to channel that anxiety or fear into just like, oh, okay,

1:38:32it's go time. Let's just, like, pull it together and channel that, you know.

1:38:37If you could ride a bull, I think you could kind of do basically anything.

1:38:41Man, you know, that's one thing my uncle taught me when I was young.

1:38:44You know, he was really quick to be like, man, it doesn't matter how strong

1:38:48you are, you know. It's not about it.

1:38:50It's all mental. It's all in your mind.

1:38:52And it's all, it's not I think I can.

1:38:56It's I know I can and I will.

1:38:58You know, and he goes, if you don't believe that every time you go put

1:39:02your rope on one of those, on their backs, he's like, it ain't going to

1:39:05happen. Yeah. He says, you see, you don't, it's not being cocky.

1:39:09It's just being confident, you know, and believing in yourself and, and having that, that

1:39:14power of mind over matter, you know.

1:39:17Yeah. If you could do that, acting's easy.

1:39:19And take that in anything in life.

1:39:20Yeah. And I, and I do, because I, I definitely have moments where, you know,

1:39:24I'm like, whew, okay, take a deep breath.

1:39:28Right. Let's go time. Let's go, you know.

1:39:30Well, especially having more than a decade of doing that with bulls, like that, that's

1:39:37so uncontrollable. Like it is like you're at the mercy of fate and how this

1:39:44plays out. Yeah. And you have this enormous beast.

1:39:47And you've chosen to scare the shit out of yourself, get on top of this

1:39:52thing and try to ride it.

1:39:53You've chosen to join the dance.

1:39:55If you can do that, if you can do that and be successful at that,

1:39:59I kind of think you could do anything.

1:40:01I think that, I mean, I wouldn't want my kid to do it at 10,

1:40:04but fuck, it's probably, if they could survive, pretty valuable.

1:40:08I laugh, I really pick two of the easiest professions, you know, riding bulls and

1:40:13playing music. Right, two that have the least amount of success ratio.

1:40:18Impossible tasks. Did you ever get any serious injuries?

1:40:24You know, I was fortunate, like, not serious.

1:40:29There was one of the worst ever.

1:40:30I knocked all these teeth out, and I got jerked down one night in Weatherford

1:40:33and took my lip off, and my teeth went through down here.

1:40:38These are all fake up here, and then my lip was just hanging by a

1:40:41thread. It didn't knock me out, which was wild, though.

1:40:45I got on this bull, and I remember it was in Weatherford, Texas, and it's

1:40:50got a butler arena there, and he had this little Angus bull there.

1:40:56Didn't have horns on him, a little muley, and usually you can go up to

1:40:59the guys that own the bulls, and a lot of the bulls have patterns, you

1:41:02know, that they'll do over and over, you know, so you can kind of talk

1:41:05to the stock contractor or the guys that own them and be like, hey, you

1:41:07know, what's this bull generally do?

1:41:10And he's like, ah, most of the time they'll take two jumps out and they

1:41:12spin to the left. Or they take two jumps out and they go to the

1:41:15right. Or, oh, they just, you know, they'll jump, kick around and make a circle.

1:41:18And he goes, man, he goes, I don't know.

1:41:20He's like, the last two times I bucked, he hadn't been ridden.

1:41:23He usually jumps out there and just spins right in the gate.

1:41:25And he said, nobody's really ridden him past three or four seconds.

1:41:28So he goes, I don't know what he's going to do after that.

1:41:31And sure enough, that's what happened.

1:41:33I got on him and he jumped out and just got it on right there

1:41:37in the gate, just spinning right there.

1:41:39And I rode him through it like three or four rounds.

1:41:41And after I rode him, like, I think the bully didn't know what to do

1:41:45next. He got a little frustrated and he just stopped and just stopped dead still

1:41:49and was just blowing and just, you know, just mad.

1:41:53And you never really want to jump off of him when they're still like that

1:41:56because you'll fall right beside him, you know.

1:41:59So you want him to have a little momentum so when you, you know, you're

1:42:02checking out, you can get away from him.

1:42:04Right. And so I spurred him a little bit to get him to jump.

1:42:08So when he jumped, I could jump off.

1:42:10But when I spurred him, it just jumped off straight up off the ground like

1:42:14a cat off all fours.

1:42:15And when he came, and when he jumped up like that, I, you know, kind

1:42:19of rocked me back on back like that.

1:42:21My hand's still tied in the rope.

1:42:23And then when he came down, he just brought all that jerked me down with

1:42:26the fours. And I came forward and he threw his head back and I just

1:42:29head butted him. Oh! And when he did, then my hand was still caught in

1:42:35the rope. And then he took off running around and just drug me around and

1:42:38just stomped the crap out of me, you know, for a bit.

1:42:41And I finally got loose and I remember running over to the fence and I

1:42:46just, you know, I kind of had my arms on the fence and I could

1:42:49see all the blood just kind of pouring down all over me.

1:42:51And one of the bullfighters ran up and he looks at me and goes, oh,

1:42:55buddy. He's like, whoo. So they have to stitch your lip back on?

1:43:03Yeah. You know, and the shock was just, I didn't feel anything.

1:43:06Wow. Like I was just like in shock.

1:43:07And I was like, oh, man.

1:43:08You know, I remember like my girlfriend was there from high school and my buddy

1:43:12and we drove to the little, you know, they're like, you want to call an

1:43:15ambulance? I was like, nah, I don't want to have health insurance to call an

1:43:18ambulance, you know, and got in my buddy's car and we drove her over to

1:43:22the emergency room in Weatherford.

1:43:25And I go in and the nurse, she's just like, oh, man.

1:43:28She's like, we can't do anything for you here.

1:43:30You're going to have to go to like Dallas to like trauma.

1:43:32You know, you have to get like an oral surgeon to put you back together.

1:43:37And she goes, you want me to, you know, get you an ambulance there?

1:43:40And I was like, no, I think we can make it, you know.

1:43:42And she's like, she gave me some pain pills.

1:43:44She goes, don't take these now.

1:43:46And she goes, hold on to these.

1:43:47And then when you get to Dallas, then take them because you're probably going to

1:43:51have to wait, you know, before they can, because it'll be three or four in

1:43:53the morning, before they can get somebody in there to see us.

1:43:56And sure enough, we got to Dallas and I'm just sitting there in the waiting

1:43:59room and I had a rag and I was just holding my mouth together and

1:44:04the shock wore off, man.

1:44:06And then it's, you know, I was starting to feel it.

1:44:09Took those pain meds and then doctor came in and held me back and gave

1:44:14me a big shot in the roof of my mouth, try to numb everything.

1:44:17And just, I think it took them longer to clean it all up, you know,

1:44:21pull all the hair and dirt out of there and sew me up and the

1:44:25teeth. Oh, it was an ordeal, you know, for sure.

1:44:27For months after that, you know, getting the dental work done, all that crap.

1:44:31So how was the lip hanging off?

1:44:35It bit it all, it would have came all the way off.

1:44:38It was just hanging on right here by the side.

1:44:40So it was just hanging down.

1:44:41And so they just had to stitch the lower part to the upper part and

1:44:44put it all together again?

1:44:45Yeah, just all across, right through the middle and kind of, if I shave, I

1:44:48got a big scar that kind of goes down there.

1:44:50Wow. And then they went through down here.

1:44:53So I got some stitches down there and then most of the stitches were all

1:44:56in my gums and all of that.

1:44:58So they had to put like posts and implants and all that stuff?

1:45:01Mm -hmm. Wow. Yeah. That shit takes forever, huh?

1:45:04Kind of knocked the front four out and then it just dominoed the rest of

1:45:07them. And I just... Riding bulls with no health insurance is wild.

1:45:14Oh, that's crazy, man. Yeah.

1:45:17That's crazy. Yeah, it was just life back then for me, you know?

1:45:23And I think going into the music stuff was like, I don't know.

1:45:28I just wasn't really scared about it or even the expectations of making it.

1:45:32I mean, to me, at the time, I had a truck and a camper on

1:45:35it. And I was like, man, I was like, I got no bills.

1:45:38I got no responsibilities. I'm just like, go make a hundred bucks a night playing

1:45:42music in a bar. I was like, this is the dream, you know?

1:45:45I'm like, I made it.

1:45:47Yeah. Well, I think when you've done something super, super difficult, everything else seems easier.

1:45:54And if you've done what you did with riding bulls for that long, like the

1:45:59music business is like, that's the worst.

1:46:01that could happen yeah even the travel part you know like you know in the

1:46:05early days of playing when i really decided i was going to try to make

1:46:09a run and play you know and it was like oh what we got to

1:46:12get in the van and go drive around and right play in bars you know

1:46:16i was like we've been doing that rodeo and for years you know we sleep

1:46:19in the back of the truck or whatever and it was fun for us we

1:46:22loved it yeah so the idea of like starving on the road playing in a

1:46:26band playing music i was like let's go you know and and getting a guaranteed

1:46:34paycheck every night you know right the gratitude you must have the riding bulls i

1:46:38mean after time you know you walked away with nothing right you know a busted

1:46:42lip nothing you know yeah and no health insurance any risk in your life and

1:46:47there's not a bunch of people that love you no yeah yeah well it's a

1:46:53great base to start out from you know i mean it sounds like it's almost

1:46:57like the universe engineered this path for you to go down like if you wanted

1:47:02to pick a path yeah that would bring you to where you are right now

1:47:06it is the perfect set of circumstances i i i look at it all the

1:47:12time you know just from an outside perspective i guess and just like wow how

1:47:16in the world all this come together and just a lot of luck and perseverance

1:47:22or whatever and i i wouldn't say i haven't worked hard at it you know

1:47:25i feel like i have and all that but there's a lot of luck out

1:47:28there and a lot of good people too you know a lot of good people

1:47:31helped me out along the way and gave me gas money and gave me a

1:47:35place to sleep or place to eat and uh helped us get other gigs and

1:47:39other i mean i remember going from one town to the next and not having

1:47:43gas money to get to the next and having no plan other than like let's

1:47:46just head west or head east and you know you'd go play at a bar

1:47:51and sure enough there'd be somebody there that would be like oh man y 'all

1:47:54should come back to my house we'll have bonfire and play some songs and he's

1:47:57like oh my brother's got a bar in phoenix and he's like call them on

1:48:01your way out you know we'd go there and and we'd always like chop firewood

1:48:05or wash dishes or wouldn't mow your lawn or wash your car on the way

1:48:08to like to get gas money and keep on going you know wow so that

1:48:13was just kind of how and always i i felt like i learned early if

1:48:16you were willing to help yourself you know there's people would help you all day

1:48:19long i think luck is a factor but it's only a factor if you've already

1:48:27had all those other experiences like think about it if you hadn't ridden bulls you

1:48:32hadn't gone through all the ranching all the hard labor all the different things then

1:48:37like you probably wouldn't have capitalized on that luck the same way no not at

1:48:42all your character wouldn't be the same no you know it's like part part of

1:48:47who you are is the character that you've developed from what you've done it kind

1:48:52of conditioned me to do it in a way in a big way and it

1:48:55seems like it's your life it almost like it's engineered for this to happen the

1:48:59way it happened it's kind of crazy it's been cool man i feel very storybook

1:49:04you know yeah very like movie like a plot in a movie guy who's a

1:49:10cowboy bull rider starts singing songs people like hey you should probably do this for

1:49:15a living and then someone's like hey man you should be on tv you know

1:49:19the next thing you know you're on one of the biggest hits in the world

1:49:23i feel like it's that song you know one day they're gonna put me in

1:49:26the movie yeah i was like how am i living this thing right now you

1:49:31know it's like i know i meet people all the time they're like oh like

1:49:34you know they can't really believe where i'm from or whatever they just think it's

1:49:39some like made -up story i'm like oh yeah all right man you know well

1:49:45it seems like a story that someone would make up if they wanted to pretend

1:49:47to be a cowboy yeah well i think a lot of people have i bet

1:49:51right i bet yeah and a lot of people still do yeah isn't that funny

1:49:55uh -huh that's funny that's like stolen valor almost yeah you know maybe like in

1:50:01all kinds of stuff you know professions or whatever you know people pretend to be

1:50:05the oh yeah what it is would you oh yeah would you mind if i

1:50:08went to the restroom oh no no no not at all i totally understand i

1:50:12want to keep talking about i don't want to stop this let's pause take a

1:50:15leak we'll be right back folks and we're back yeah it's um it's kind of

1:50:21funny that people would want to fake the life that you've lived but that is

1:50:25such a romantic story like it's such a like it's such a movie that it

1:50:30makes sense that people want to fake it it's got to be weird walking around

1:50:34like having lived a life that people would want to fake and pretend that they

1:50:38lived it is it is sometimes you know and it's like uh you know i

1:50:44remember when i really started for you know playing music and stuff i mean i

1:50:49wore a cowboy hat all the time it's that's what i rode bulls and you

1:50:52know it's my very much my identity you know but no cowboy stuff wasn't really

1:50:57cool then you know i like feel like in the uh early 2000s and all

1:51:02of that you know and there wasn't a lot of big there wasn't a big

1:51:04americana scene or you know any of that kind of stuff you know and um

1:51:09definitely going to new york or going to los angeles and touring around like i'd

1:51:13be the only one wearing a cowboy hat you know i remember i think the

1:51:19first time one time i was in la we were out on the santa monica

1:51:22pier and there was a guy that had like the one man band thing you

1:51:27know out there and there's all these tourists on the pier and i'm just like

1:51:30out there checking out the scenery and just minding my own business and this guy

1:51:34gets on the microphone and he just points over at me he goes oh broke

1:51:37that mountain and everybody on the pier turned around and looked at me they're just

1:51:43pointing at me and laughing at me and i'm just like ah okay you know

1:51:46so i was like that was the association with the cowboy hat at the time

1:51:49that's hilarious yeah they changed cowboys for a while now it's a whole new ball

1:51:57game that legend but you know now playing and man i'm so stoked to see

1:52:06all these new bands out there and like so many young folks playing actual instruments

1:52:11you know i felt like for a long time they were so electronic and djs

1:52:15and all right stuff you know Well, there's a giant country comeback that's going on

1:52:19right now, kind of nationwide.

1:52:21I'm sure you love Open the Gates, the Zac Bryan song.

1:52:24Yeah. That's such a great bull riding song.

1:52:27Man, they got some great tunes, man.

1:52:28Yeah. That's a great bull riding song.

1:52:31But there's so many great musicians out there now and also have lived like different

1:52:37but very, like Charlie Crockett, what a fascinating dude that guy is, like just kind

1:52:43of performing on the streets and, you know, just being kind of a vagabond traveling

1:52:48around and then finally catches and people are like, damn, this music is fucking great,

1:52:54man. Yeah, like wearing it on their sleeves, you know, and having the confidence to,

1:52:59I think people have always been, I think there has been plenty of folks out

1:53:03there, you know, writing from the heart and so to speak and all of that

1:53:06and, you know, having a certain integrity to the things that they're saying and wanting,

1:53:11you know, the truth in their speaking into their songs and things like that.

1:53:15Yeah. And now there's just a, there's a lot more of a platform to support

1:53:19them, you know, and like people are like, oh, wow, there's a, there's a bunch

1:53:22of this stuff out there, you know.

1:53:24There's also an appreciation for it because I think we're all fearful that people like

1:53:29you won't exist in the future.

1:53:31Because it seems like a guy like you, you know, bull riding, living on a

1:53:35ranch, like the singing songs in bars, like that almost is like a thing of

1:53:40the past. Oh, very much.

1:53:42But it's so romantic to people that like when we meet a guy like you

1:53:46in real life, you're like, oh, keep him around.

1:53:49You know, like you want to make sure that people like you still exist.

1:53:54It's a very exciting thing for people to have a person who's lived an authentically

1:53:59interesting life and authentically out of the box life.

1:54:04It's not a normal life.

1:54:05Like you, you're, if you meet a million people, the odds of you meeting one

1:54:11guy who used to bull ride and then started singing in bars with his friends

1:54:15and was happy living on the road.

1:54:17Now all of a sudden he's on a fucking gigantic television show.

1:54:22It's not even one in a million.

1:54:24It's pretty, it's strange because sometimes I, you know, I meet people and I, you

1:54:29know, I'm like, oh yeah, I grew up just like you, you know?

1:54:32And then I realized, like, I don't think I did.

1:54:37I kind of had to think about it myself.

1:54:39I was like, oh man, I was pretty fucked up.

1:54:40No, you definitely didn't. You rode a bull when you were fucking 10, dude.

1:54:43Most people when they're 10, they're playing with GI Joes.

1:54:45Yeah. You know, they're not riding bulls.

1:54:48That's a very unusual setup for the rest of your life.

1:54:51You know, if you can, I think if you do some things difficult when you're

1:54:54really young, you, you get accustomed to fear, you get accustomed to anxiety and nerves.

1:55:00And the thing that, I mean, that, that is like the mark of a man,

1:55:06like a man is his ability to be in a very high stress situation and

1:55:11keep his shit together, you know, and to have gone through a lot of that

1:55:15when you're very young, like riding a bull at 10 is crazy to gone through

1:55:20that when you're very young, it just develops the kind of character that allows you

1:55:24to kind of do anything in life.

1:55:26And I think most men see that and they wish they were like that.

1:55:32I remember a moment, you know, it was really when I was, you know, riding

1:55:36steers and then I made that transition to the big bulls, you know, and it

1:55:41wasn't like, oh, here's this like this little steer and then there's an in between

1:55:44and then there's the big, it was like this little steer and then this big

1:55:48bull, you know, and I went to, and I was It was a junior rodeo

1:55:50in Odessa, Texas, and it was my first year to ride junior bulls.

1:55:54And, um, I entered the, the bull riding.

1:55:58My uncle was there with me and, uh, they started running the bulls up into

1:56:01the chutes and they were big.

1:56:03They were like backs that wide and horns sticking outside of the chutes, you know,

1:56:07and, uh, they were big, but they didn't, they didn't buck that hard, you know,

1:56:10they just kind of jump kicked down, but they were still big, you know?

1:56:12And like, I remember like scared and like in tears, you know, kind of, I

1:56:17was scared and, uh, my uncle, you know, was super cool about it.

1:56:21He wasn't like, you have to do this or you have to, he's like, man,

1:56:24whatever you want to do, you know, you want to pack it up?

1:56:26We'll, we'll get out of here right now.

1:56:28It's like, this is either for you or it's not for you, you know?

1:56:32And, uh, I remember just him telling me, you want to take like 20, 30

1:56:36minutes and just kind of think about it and whatever you want to do, we'll,

1:56:39we'll make happen, you know?

1:56:41And I did, I kind of walked around there for a bit and, um, I

1:56:46just had this some kind of like, I knew that I would regret it if

1:56:49I didn't do it, didn't try it, you know?

1:56:52There was something in me where like, man, cause I slept it.

1:56:54I dreamt about it. You know, I was just, I loved it.

1:56:56And, uh, I was like, nah, I'm going to do this, you know?

1:56:59And I put my rope on him and had all the sport there that I

1:57:02needed in that moment. And they opened the gate and this big old high horn

1:57:07bullion, he just turned and kind of jumped out there real docile.

1:57:11And I think I wrote him two or three jumps and fell off.

1:57:14And it was just like, I'm the king of the world.

1:57:19I was like, I'm a bull rider now, you know, I'm not just the steer

1:57:22rider kid, you know? I kind of made that level.

1:57:24And I remember after that, I just, uh, man, I just craved it.

1:57:30Like just the higher they jump, the faster they spin, the better.

1:57:34I like it. Really? Oh, just, yeah.

1:57:36This dirty rank, just run them in there.

1:57:39Let's go. And when I was, when I was little, I mean, even when I

1:57:42was like 14 or 15, you know, the guys were starting to breed the bulls

1:57:46for like the PBR, like they full on started these like breeding programs, you know,

1:57:49used to, you could go to a practice pen and, you know, be an old

1:57:53farmer that had two or three old bulls that you could get on and practice.

1:57:57And they'd just jump around and just, you know, nothing that was really going to

1:58:00hurt you bad, you know?

1:58:02And then they started breeding these young bulls and man, you'd go to the practice

1:58:05pen and there'd be 10 or 15 of these like yearlings that bucked and they

1:58:10needed somebody to get on them, you know, like test pilot.

1:58:12And I was the test pilot.

1:58:14There was a guy named Bradley, uh, Raspberry, I believe, uh, kind of out in

1:58:18Brownwood. I remember going to his house and, uh, I could ride, I could ride.

1:58:23I was pretty sticky when I was, I could ride a lot better when I

1:58:26was younger than I was when I got older, you know, for some reason, I

1:58:29just had that no fear.

1:58:30or whatever that was and i'd get on 10 or 15 a day and just

1:58:34they just kept running them in there man they'd be trying to flip over in

1:58:39the shoot and just you know they're young green bulls that were half wild and

1:58:43and they're just trying to figure out which ones bucked and which ones didn't and

1:58:47they would you know they'd get rid of the ones that didn't buck and keep

1:58:49the ones that did and man i'd just be like the wilder they got in

1:58:53the shoot like the more aggressive i got like i just like it was like

1:58:57okay that's what we're gonna do come on let's go let's let's do this you

1:59:02know i was nuts you know god that's so crazy yeah that's such a crazy

1:59:08way to live your life you know wild bulls you say wild like the ones

1:59:12that are out there in the wild they're some of the most dangerous animals that

1:59:16you could ever encounter when they're act like they call them scrub bulls like my

1:59:20buddy um adam he lives in australia or he's moving to america but yeah when

1:59:25he lived in australia he he said that they would encounter these scrub bulls which

1:59:30is like wild domestic bulls that got out and started breeding and then they many

1:59:36generations later they're now completely wild they're like deer out there yeah and they will

1:59:41run after you i knew these three guys from australia that that uh several australian

1:59:46guys that came over lived in stevenville a lot of these cowboys have moved to

1:59:49stevenville because it was so central it was kind of cowboy capital there and uh

1:59:53his name was lance kelly has some brothers and they were from up there north

1:59:57queensland somewhere and one summer he went back to work and then when he came

2:00:02back he wanted he'd tell me about where he was from all the time you

2:00:05know i'm i was young curious i was always fascinated like wow you're from australia

2:00:09you know i've only seen movies you know like uh uh what's the oh gosh

2:00:15crocodile dundee no man from uh uh man from snowy river now which was anyway

2:00:21um but i was fascinated with australia and and him and his brothers and so

2:00:26he went home and he he had videotaped a a vhs you know he didn't

2:00:30have phones back then but it was like the old cam vhs tape recorder and

2:00:34he'd videotape or uh duct taped it around his body while he was walking around

2:00:39working on the ranch and he'd have this four -wheeler and they're chasing these wild

2:00:43cattle and rounding them up him and his brother brothers and he would just like

2:00:47chase them on a four -wheeler as long as you know keep them running until

2:00:51they got so tired they couldn't go anymore and then he had this piece of

2:00:53pipe on there he could run up behind them and kind of knock them down

2:00:55and then he'd jump off and tie their legs together and they would catch a

2:00:59bunch of them like that and then his brother would come by you know later

2:01:03with a truck and a winch and winch them up into the trailer and they

2:01:06would catch all these wild cows like that and to be able to see that

2:01:10footage and stuff and have him tell me how they were doing it and show

2:01:13them and i was like oh that's the coolest thing in the world i want

2:01:16to go when can i go you know australia is such a crazy place man

2:01:21it's i mean it's bigger than the united states and or the size of the

2:01:27united states roughly and it has less people than los angeles and everything will kill

2:01:31you everything will kill you every snake spider every snake crocodiles they have saltwater crocodiles

2:01:38and giant great white sharks hearty people man yeah hearty motherfuckers come from that place

2:01:47i feel like i feel like texas and a lot of folks in australia are

2:01:50like a bit kindred spirits yes yeah i think so too my buddy james mccann

2:01:54was on the podcast yesterday he's a comic out of australia and uh he's from

2:01:59there and he spends time here he was living here for a while but he

2:02:01had to move back because he had another kid and but now he's coming back

2:02:05and forth and trying to figure he's really talented he's trying to come to austin

2:02:08yeah he was living in austin for a couple years and living in america for

2:02:13a couple years living in austin for about a year but you know his wife's

2:02:16about to have another kid and they just decided to go back to australia where

2:02:20she's got support but man he fucking misses it he was here he's like mate

2:02:24i miss it so much yeah i miss it so much like i think there's

2:02:29any place like this place it's pretty awesome but australia it's like it's the same

2:02:35kind of thing it's like it's a rugged place and the kind of people that

2:02:38live there they're fun they're fun kind of got a super up oppressive government unfortunately

2:02:45i think it's a lot about what you say too you know when you survive

2:02:48certain things in your life and um you know it puts things in perspective of

2:02:55what you're taking seriously or what's a what's an emergency you know what's right oh

2:03:00is this this is this is life or death or is it not or you

2:03:05know and to be able to laugh at stuff and i love comedians it's just

2:03:10like man to be able to just joke and cut stuff about the most serious

2:03:14things or whatever it is like god we need that so much yeah it's an

2:03:18important service it doesn't seem like it is to people because it seems stupid they're

2:03:22like oh you're just telling jokes like not for for me when i go and

2:03:25watch a good comedy show i feel better it's medicine and i think it also

2:03:30puts life into perspective with a sense of humor you can kind of look at

2:03:34things through a different lens and go yeah we're probably gonna be all right i

2:03:39get a feeling like you know i think a lot of folks have this idea

2:03:42that songwriters or where you know especially i you know have a bunch of sad

2:03:45songs or whatever to go to that deep place and you live through stuff that

2:03:49you write about but man i find in comics man like i feel like there's

2:03:54some of the heaviest stuff in the world that those folks have experienced to be

2:03:58able to you know come up and tell these kinds of jokes and stories and

2:04:03the educational part of it with it you know it's so much i don't know

2:04:07for me it seems like it's so much more than just a joke it is

2:04:10with some i mean some people just do jokes it really depends on your style

2:04:14but i mean if you go back to like richard prior his whole thing was

2:04:17like explaining life and telling stories yeah but with an amazing sense of humor and

2:04:23that you would leave that and you like everybody feels like more united they feel

2:04:27better yeah just like you like what everybody was thinking yeah it was everybody's thinking

2:04:32afraid to say and also he would look at things from a very wise perspective

2:04:37that was also hilarious so you walked out of there feeling better yeah you felt

2:04:42like you were better it felt like there's uh Bringing some hope.

2:04:46Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. There's hope in humor.

2:04:49Yeah, for sure. But there's hope in music, too.

2:04:51Yeah. You know, I don't have any musical talent at all.

2:04:53But I always think of music as almost like a drug.

2:04:57Because music, when when a good song hits, you're like, fuck, like, you're if you're

2:05:01in the car, and a good tune comes on, like, especially back when I used

2:05:05to listen to the radio, you know, and like, you didn't expect what was coming

2:05:08on. And also, can't rewind it.

2:05:10Yeah, all of a sudden, it's Radar Love by Golden Ear.

2:05:13And you're like, fuck, yeah, let's go.

2:05:15Like, you feel different. It like changes your mood.

2:05:19Like, you hear, like, Freebird, like, you're flipping through the channels, and the fucking guitar

2:05:25solo for Freebird comes on.

2:05:26You're like, yes, you feel better.

2:05:29Like, it excites all these parts of your senses, your consciousness, your feelings.

2:05:35It's, it's a drug. I mean, it's an amazing thing.

2:05:38It's been real therapeutic for me.

2:05:40At the very beginning, like, I, like I said, I didn't have high expectations.

2:05:43But I, I knew when I kind of wrote some of the first songs that

2:05:48I wrote, and I like got some of that stuff off my chest, like, it

2:05:51changed me, you know? Yeah, it like, it became a tool that all of a

2:05:57sudden, I had access to this thing that like, was helping me heal in a

2:06:02way like I could get I could get stuff off my chest, like the things

2:06:04that I was uncomfortable talking about.

2:06:08I had a conversation with folks, like, I could put them into a song and

2:06:10like, sing them to the wall.

2:06:13And I was just like getting that stuff out.

2:06:14Like, there wasn't anybody in the room.

2:06:16I was just like, you know, but I was getting this stuff out out of

2:06:20me, you know? And it's also a way for people to hear it where it's

2:06:23not annoying. You know what I mean?

2:06:25Like, if you just tell some sad story about your life, people are like, oh,

2:06:28geez, I gotta hear it.

2:06:29There you go. Crown me a river, kid.

2:06:32Everybody's got a story. But if you have a sad story in a song, it's

2:06:37like fucking, it's kind of, it's beautiful.

2:06:39Like, I love a good sad song.

2:06:42You know, a song that has like real emotion in it, whether it's a real

2:06:47story or whether, like one of my favorite Coulter Wall songs is Kate McKinnon.

2:06:51Yeah. Jamie turned me on to that song.

2:06:54He said it to me.

2:06:55Coulter, man, Coulter's a gem.

2:06:57He was fucking 21 when he made that song, which is crazy.

2:07:01Yeah. You listen to that song, that sounds like a 58 -year -old man who's

2:07:05been smoking cigarettes his whole life.

2:07:07Yeah. And that dude is interesting, too, because he still works on a ranch.

2:07:11Yeah. Yeah. He's a great guy.

2:07:14He's one of my favorites of the younger guys that have come up and been

2:07:17doing this. He's just, same way when I first heard those first songs, I was

2:07:21like, who the fuck is this?

2:07:23Yeah. You know? Then I saw like a picture of him.

2:07:27I'm like, oh, man, he's a kid, you know?

2:07:29Crazy. And just a fabulous songwriter, guitar player.

2:07:33Raven is a wicked bird.

2:07:35You hear that, you're like, what is this?

2:07:38Yeah. Who is this guy?

2:07:41And I couldn't believe he was 21.

2:07:43I'm like, that makes zero sense.

2:07:45Yeah. He's got it, though, man.

2:07:48And there's a bunch of them out there now that I'm hearing, too.

2:07:51There's just like, I'm like, man, how cool.

2:07:53Yeah. How cool. I'm so glad that they're getting a shot at it or just

2:07:57getting the support. I don't know if it's saying getting a shot at it, but

2:08:00it's like getting the love and support that they deserve.

2:08:03It's good music, man. Yeah, it's great.

2:08:05It's great music. And there's a thing now with the internet where it's so easy

2:08:08to share something, you know?

2:08:10Like someone's got a good song and it's on YouTube or Spotify, and then you

2:08:14just send a link to your buddy.

2:08:16Yeah. You go, bro, check this out.

2:08:17Like, I got to say, like, half the songs I find out about my friends

2:08:21just send me. Mm -hmm.

2:08:22And then all of a sudden I'm like, oh, shit.

2:08:24Yeah. And then I'll add it to my playlist, you know?

2:08:27Yeah. It's like, it's easy to share things now where you don't have to go

2:08:31to the record store and pick up the record and, you know, now it's just

2:08:35like within seconds of you getting it in your phone, you're listening to it.

2:08:39Yeah. And it's easier to record the stuff, too.

2:08:42Oh, yeah. It's like you don't need a half a million bucks in a studio

2:08:45and all that stuff. It's like, man, half the stuff you can record on your

2:08:48phone. Well, look at Oliver Anthony.

2:08:50Yeah. One fucking song. Yeah.

2:08:53One song, and the first show he ever does is like 18 ,000 people.

2:08:59That is the first show that dude ever performed at.

2:09:03Yeah. I feel for him.

2:09:04I would never have been able to do that when I started, you know?

2:09:07Bro. Like, I was not prepared for anything.

2:09:09And I, you know, I don't know, maybe they're not, but that's a lot of

2:09:12- He settled in, man.

2:09:13A lot to carry. He settled in pretty easy.

2:09:15He figured it out. He's a smart cat.

2:09:18Yeah. He's a really smart dude, and he settled in really easy.

2:09:21I guess they have to, you know?

2:09:23Yeah. I mean, I always think, like, you know, gosh, it's changed so much since

2:09:26I started out, you know?

2:09:28I mean, we didn't even have, like, you know, if you wanted to learn how

2:09:31to play a song, you kind of had to go listen to the record and

2:09:33just try to figure it out, you know, and rewind it.

2:09:36Now it's like, oh, here's a guy that'll just show you every note and this

2:09:39and that. Yeah, there's a guy on YouTube that'll show you exactly where to place

2:09:41your fingers. Exactly how to do it.

2:09:43Yeah. And that took me years to figure out, you know?

2:09:45And, you know, maybe that is like today.

2:09:48You know, these guys, they're learning how to do it at such a quicker rate,

2:09:53and, like, they know how to handle the crowds and do all the stuff, and

2:09:56it's just like, boom, there you go.

2:09:58Well, that's with everything today.

2:09:59Yeah. You know, I think that's also why, like, I mean, in martial arts and,

2:10:04like, UFC, there's a reason why the guys are so much better today, and it's

2:10:08because they get to see everything that everybody's ever done, and then they practice it

2:10:12and improve upon it, and they get it at a early age.

2:10:15You can essentially just on your phone watch every fight that's ever taken place ever

2:10:19in human history that's been recorded.

2:10:21I did that on the road a few years ago.

2:10:23I mean, I've still, I've always been a pretty rudimentary guitar player.

2:10:27You know, I can't solo all over the place and all of that stuff, and

2:10:31I think it was, like, 2019, I put out a record, and I was going

2:10:36on a tour, and my friend Charlie Sexton produced the album.

2:10:38He's a wonderful guitar player.

2:10:41Charlie Sexton, the guy from the 80s, Beat So Lonely?

2:10:45Yeah, played with Dylan, played Archangel.

2:10:48He was, like, really young when Beat So Lonely came out, right?

2:10:52Oh, man, he's, yeah, legend.

2:10:53And I remember calling him, though.

2:10:55I was like, man, I really want to get better at the guitar, you know?

2:10:58And he's like, well, just listen to all the stuff.

2:10:59that you really like you know he's like don't try to play it all note

2:11:02for note he's like just keep listening to it and like you'll start eventually finding

2:11:07those places and develop your style and but it was when i got on the

2:11:11road as well man i had access on youtube right all of my favorite musicians

2:11:16and guitar players and i just kind of made a point of sitting down and

2:11:19i even found this guy that was just breaking down and giving simple blues guitar

2:11:23lessons for kids and i was like man this is great never done anything like

2:11:27this and just like went through i went back you know right i gotta memorize

2:11:31all the notes on the fretboard and i needed you know and it was just

2:11:34it was so i had so much fun doing it and uh you know and

2:11:37also give confidence to get up and jam with other musicians and play and kind

2:11:41of know what key you're in what you're doing and uh uh you know i

2:11:46went years you know without having any kind of lessons or training and then i'm

2:11:49just like within three weeks of being on tour and watching youtube videos of it

2:11:54just stepped it up so much like how'd you learn how to do it i

2:11:58just went about 20 years later in my career i decided to learn how to

2:12:01play the guitar on youtube it is amazing i mean that's the positive part of

2:12:06the internet you know if you can avoid the negative parts there's a lot of

2:12:09great positive stuff in the internet and the access to stuff like that is amazing

2:12:13yeah if we all could just avoid the negative of everything right right well unfortunately

2:12:19there's a lot of people that don't have good lives and they do have a

2:12:22lot of extra time because they're not really investing in their own life so they

2:12:25just spread the negativity online yeah and it's just human nature wild wild world it

2:12:32is it's a wild world but it's also a wildly positive world too just what

2:12:36you just said about the guitar stuff or with the oliver anthony stuff yeah this

2:12:40guy standing there with a guitar in front of a field with no production value

2:12:46at all but has a song they're singing from the heart like how many how

2:12:50many views does that shit have on youtube it's got to be like a hundred

2:12:56million views or something nuts i mean that song was fucking gigantic yeah rich men

2:13:02north of i remember my wife playing it for me for the first time i

2:13:06was just like what i was like what is that she's like oh man check

2:13:09this out you know i was like that's so fucking rad yeah i got a

2:13:13chance to see him perform live too with his band they're fucking fantastic and he's

2:13:17settled he's completely settled into being famous now he's he's full he's cool with it

2:13:21yeah he's still the same dude i met him real early on and i actually

2:13:25talked to him on the phone how much was the guy 236 million holy shit

2:13:32wow when you say like he's settled dude was he i didn't know it was

2:13:37he having a hard time with it he was freaking out the beginning and uh

2:13:40i contacted him early on and he said hey can i ask you some advice

2:13:44and can we talk on the phone i said yeah sure so i called him

2:13:48up and he was just telling me that he was getting hit up by all

2:13:50these different people that were trying to give him money to sign a contract and

2:13:53this then i go hey hey hey don't sign nothing i go you don't need

2:13:58nobody you don't need to be locked up in any contracts with nobody and he

2:14:02was like they're all telling me i gotta strike while the iron's hot i'm like

2:14:05fuck them i go you got talent dude yeah talent is the number one thing

2:14:10you already have that you're going to be fine you just keep making songs like

2:14:14that you can't fucking lose but what you don't want to do is be tied

2:14:18with some legal contract to some assholes just sucking you like a vampire yeah and

2:14:23they're going to be stuck with you for years and then you're going to have

2:14:26to go to court to get out exactly yeah you have the opportunity like like

2:14:31you said you just man you're writing good songs you're doing good stuff and you

2:14:34have a way to give it to the people but he's getting more you need

2:14:37seven million dollars to sign this i'm like don't do it i know it sounds

2:14:41like but that seven million dollars they're giving you that because they're going to make

2:14:4514 there's not a chance in hell and you don't need them yeah you don't

2:14:49need you should get all the money you should get all you shouldn't give any

2:14:52money to anybody else yeah you don't need it you can make your own records

2:14:55you can put it all together yourself you don't need nobody i guess you always

2:15:00got to remember they're gonna buy for one sell for two somewhere exactly it's there's

2:15:05no way they're going to give you that money unless they're going to make a

2:15:07lot more and then you're going to get stuck with them don't do it and

2:15:10he's like they're all telling me i got to do it now because if i

2:15:12miss this opportunity i'm like you ain't missing shit yeah you ain't miss it there's

2:15:17not a chance you're going to miss it especially when you're that young yeah and

2:15:20good yeah and just fucking good who knows what they're going to be you know

2:15:24be right in the next 10 years yeah have you heard that song woman scorned

2:15:28i haven't no is that one of his new ones who wrote that one after

2:15:33a breakup and it's just whoo you hear that fucker it just gets you right

2:15:38in the the bone marrow yeah i get you yeah it's fantastic it's so good

2:15:43but it's just like you know it's it's a beautiful story and i love a

2:15:48story like that when he was like selling uh he was selling like uh heavy

2:15:52equipment like a salesman just like fucking machinery and shit yeah and then writing songs

2:15:58and he gets fed up one day and he puts this song let's make a

2:16:01video of this fucking song yeah and then all of a sudden boom man people

2:16:05ask me all the time they're like man who do you think's you know the

2:16:08best young songwriter out there you know musician or guitar player i'm like man i

2:16:13don't know it's probably some 16 year old kid in the garage that nobody's heard

2:16:17of that's probably the best guy out there you know he's ready to jump off

2:16:20yeah he's gonna get you with some song that this you know crushes you yeah

2:16:25they're out there it's just but that's the thing that i was saying about guys

2:16:30like you that people look at guys like you and it's such a romantic story

2:16:34they worry that there's not going to be any more of you you know what

2:16:38i mean like this weird digital world and ai and just this strange fucking life

2:16:46that we're all living like now that are not i don't want to say simple

2:16:51because it's not simple but it's unencumbered by all the bullshit of the the world

2:16:57that we think is fake and unfortunate yeah like to to have this pure life

2:17:02and this wild romantic story when people meet a guy like you they're like oh

2:17:07man there probably ain't gonna be many more of them i don't know man i

2:17:10mean look at this guy you know the guys are the kind i feel so

2:17:14fortunate When I did come to Austin in my mid -20s, I met guys like

2:17:20Joe Ely and Terry Allen and Guy Clark and these little Steve Earle, legendary kind

2:17:28of guys that I looked up to.

2:17:29And I remember being young then and being like, oh man, these are the last

2:17:34guys left. And so I don't know.

2:17:38There's so many of these young folks out there that I think crave it.

2:17:44And that's what they're interested in.

2:17:46They want to play that music.

2:17:48They want to feel that stuff.

2:17:50So I'm optimistic about it, but it definitely is a different world out there these

2:17:56days. And even for myself, just going with the flow and like, well, where are

2:18:01we going tomorrow? I have no idea how so much of this social media stuff

2:18:06is working or how you put out an album or songs.

2:18:11Don't worry about all that jazz.

2:18:13Just keep writing. Just keep writing, keep making it, and just be undeniable.

2:18:19And at the end of the day, if all of that stuff disappears, you can

2:18:24always go sit on the sidewalk and put your tip jar out there and play

2:18:28a song for people who are walking down the street.

2:18:30And I guarantee you there's going to be somebody that's going to stop and appreciate

2:18:33it. Well, that's what got Charlie Crockett started out.

2:18:35Yeah. I've had plenty of gigs where you go into some bar and my wife

2:18:41always says, go where you're celebrated, not where you're tolerated.

2:18:45You go into some bar and you can tell they don't really want, they're not

2:18:49excited about you playing or whatever.

2:18:50Like, yeah, shit, I'll just go park in the parking lot across the street and

2:18:54sit on the tailgate of my truck and play.

2:18:55They won't have a party over there, you know?

2:18:57Yeah. That is the crazy thing about music.

2:19:00Yeah. You can just kind of set up anywhere.

2:19:02You don't need all that stuff.

2:19:03You're talking about signing contracts and deals and all that.

2:19:07It's like, man, just like you got that guitar in your hand, you got your

2:19:09song, you know? Hold on to it.

2:19:13Yeah. And protect it. You know, that's what's something that's special to you.

2:19:17I think when I talk about the therapy of songwriting, I hold on and protect

2:19:23that ruthlessly. You know, I'm not just giving that away, you know?

2:19:27And that part of it's way more important than selling an album or a concert

2:19:34ticket or going on the road, touring and all that, man.

2:19:38Like, what I get out of music is, like, when I'm sitting at home in

2:19:40a room all by myself and letting that stuff pour out of me and I'm

2:19:45just singing it to the wall.

2:19:47Like, that's what's saved my life, you know?

2:19:50That's awesome. And any of the rest of it.

2:19:53I'm glad that you articulated it that way, too, because I think there's young, aspiring

2:19:58songwriters and singers out there that are listening to this right now that are feeling

2:20:02this. And they just can't wait to get to a pad right now and start

2:20:05writing, pick up their guitar and start writing.

2:20:07Because it's like stories like yours and the way you express it, it inspires people

2:20:12to get excited about it, inspires people to really dig in.

2:20:18I hope so. You know, I definitely had folks that mentored me like that and,

2:20:22you know, steered me in the right direction in a lot of ways.

2:20:26Terry Allen, the guy, definitely.

2:20:29I'm just like, man, just keep writing.

2:20:30And keep, you know, and whatever it's making you want to do that in the

2:20:34first place, you know, like that, like hold on to that, you know, and protect

2:20:38it. And the rest will always be around and it'll always come and it'll change

2:20:42and a good song will survive and find its way.

2:20:47Just like the guy, you know, that song you just played me, like you said,

2:20:50200 million people and it just, they'll find its way, you know?

2:20:55Yeah. They'll find its way into people's hearts, you know?

2:20:58Yeah. And like I said, it's just, it's important for people like you to tell

2:21:03your story. It really is.

2:21:04Thank you. It's fuel for people.

2:21:07Thanks. Thank you for being here.

2:21:09I really appreciate it. It was a lot of fun.

2:21:11I really enjoyed it. And tell everybody they want to find you performing anywhere, where

2:21:16they can catch you. You got a website that shows where you're going to be

2:21:19at everywhere? All over the interwebs.

2:21:21Yeah. It's all out there.

2:21:22Is it, do you have your own personal website?

2:21:25I do. It's probably just ryanbingham .com or binghammusic .com, something like that.

2:21:31All the dates are up there.

2:21:33Yeah. Do you use social media at all?

2:21:35Yeah. We're on all this.

2:21:36I mean, all this stuff.

2:21:37Do you pay attention to it or you got somebody who does it for you?

2:21:39Both. Yeah? I do both, yeah.

2:21:41Mostly on Instagram, I pay attention to that one and check in and stuff like

2:21:45that. There's so much of it these days.

2:21:47It's like, I can't keep up with all of it.

2:21:49You know? It'll rob your time.

2:21:52Yeah. I'm trying to go get away where all that stuff's turned off.

2:21:56That's where I'm going to find me.

2:21:57Beautiful. All right. Thanks, brother.

2:21:59Appreciate it. It was a lot of fun.

2:22:00Thank you. I appreciate it.

2:22:01Bye, everybody. Bye, everybody. Bye, everybody.

2:22:11Bye, everybody. Bye, everybody. Bye, everybody.

2:22:14Bye, everybody. Bye, everybody.

#2489 - Ryan Bingham