The Tudor Dixon Podcast: Doug Burgum on Venezuela Oil Deal, AI Race, and Energy Dominance
3/9/202634 mincomplete
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3:08That's iFlag .org. Welcome to the Tudor Dixon podcast today.
3:13I am excited because we have the Secretary of the Interior with us, Doug Burgum.
3:19You also know him as the former North Dakota governor, but now he is the
3:23U .S. Secretary of the Interior and the chairman of the National Energy Dominance Council,
3:28and a guy who just got back from Venezuela, which is very interesting.
3:33Welcome to the podcast. Well, Tudor, great to be with you.
3:36And yes, just got back from Venezuela late last night.
3:39That is, so that's why, so we're getting you fresh back from Venezuela, which I
3:43think is very exciting because I hear a lot of people that are concerned what's
3:48actually happening over there, what is going on with oil, what's going on with gas
3:51prices here. And there has been this kind of remarkable deal made with Venezuela on
3:58the oil side. Tell us a little bit about that.
4:00Well, first of all, I just want to say to President Trump, I mean, without
4:05his courageous, decisive leadership on January 3rd, that we wouldn't even be having this conversation,
4:11and I wouldn't have been in Venezuela.
4:13I mean, two months ago, Venezuela was a sanctioned adversary, and now they're becoming one
4:20of our most important strategic allies in the Western Hemisphere.
4:25I mean, this is a country that has, the only country in the world that
4:27has larger oil reserves than Saudi Arabia is Venezuela.
4:31And it had been going out, you know, at a discount to people like China
4:36when it used to flow in five days to the Gulf of America refineries along
4:44the coast of Texas and Louisiana, and which was great for keeping prices down in
4:49America, it was great for American jobs, it was great for handling their heavier crude,
4:54because we'd built these refineries to do it.
4:57And, you know, they went down a path on, you know, socialism, under corrupt leadership,
5:03and thank, you know, President Trump, you know, with his, I guess, with his action,
5:06our military, it's basically a new dawn for the people of Venezuela, people in Venezuela,
5:11I'm telling you, they will, they will, they will, outside of this building, there's a,
5:16the interior building in Washington, D .C., there's a statue to Simon Boulevard, the guy
5:19that liberated Venezuela and Bolivia back, you know, centuries ago.
5:24. There will likely be a statue of President Trump and streets renamed after him
5:29in Caracas because this is a guy that his action has created this new dawn
5:34of opportunity for people in Venezuela.
5:36And only they remember what it was like just over 20 years ago when they
5:40had a market. Their economy has shrunken by a factor of four.
5:45I mean, their GDP today is one fourth of what it was back when their
5:50industry was really going. And that affects everybody in the country.
5:53They're just a much poorer country than they were before.
5:55So quite exciting to go down there and be working on getting that oil and
6:00gas flowing back to America again to benefit Americans.
6:03I think it's kind of a critical message as we go into the midterms, though,
6:07what Venezuela became and how the United States is coming to the rescue to rebuild
6:12it, because we are hearing these messages of socialism.
6:15In fact, we had an Argentinian politician recently in Germany sitting next to AOC, and
6:22AOC is talking about a wealth tax and she's talking about socialism.
6:25And this woman, it was so gracious.
6:27But she said, what President Trump did for Venezuela is I've seen the people cheering.
6:33They've come to my country to get away from Venezuela.
6:35Venezuela, this is such a critical moment for people to understand the infrastructure, the oil
6:40infrastructure there was destroyed by socialism.
6:43And the opportunity here is to come together as partners to rebuild that, correct?
6:48Yeah, absolutely. Part of our delegation that we went down on this trip, we had
6:53dozens of American companies across oil and gas and mining because they're rich, a country
6:58rich in critical minerals. That matters to every American because if you use a cell
7:02phone, drive a car, have a refrigerator in your house, you're using critical minerals.
7:07I mean, some of these, you know, like some of the phones today might have
7:1042 of the 60 critical minerals that China controls all the processing is in your
7:15phone, a .k .a. the supercomputer in your pocket.
7:18So we just can't, we can't be a country and have our independence, have our
7:24sovereignty if another nation controls the supply chain for things that we need to support
7:29our economy, to support daily life.
7:31So across all this, but these companies that we brought down there, some of them
7:35had been kicked out of the country 20 years ago when their companies were nationalized,
7:40a .k .a. their assets were stolen.
7:42Well, you know what happened?
7:43The people that were the Venezuelans working for American companies, they didn't stay.
7:48They left. They left. I mean, and where'd they go?
7:51They went to places like Houston.
7:52I mean, there's one of the companies there that said we have 600 Venezuelans that
7:56are now Venezuelan Americans working as engineers, technicians, or leaders in our company in Houston.
8:02They're chomping to go back down their increased production, get it shipping back to the
8:07U .S. And again, like I said, it's the one of the things that's going
8:10to help bring that energy, the center of the energy world out of the Middle
8:15East, which would be important right now, get it back to the Western Hemisphere between
8:18the U .S. and Venezuela.
8:21We've got everything we need right here.
8:24You know, how fantastic will that be?
8:26That's been an interesting message that I've heard from both people in the United States
8:30that want to go back to Iran and Venezuela.
8:33It's people who were driven away by these radical policies.
8:37And you said leaders, leaders, the wealth, all driven away from these countries.
8:42But you also talked about the rare earth minerals.
8:44And I want to clarify something there, because I think that people in America have
8:48always felt like we can only rely on China for these.
8:51Do we have another option now?
8:53Can we take that control back?
8:55Well, absolutely, because across the U .S., we've got vast resources of minerals.
9:03We got ourselves completely out of the mining game.
9:06And that was I would say that was a team effort.
9:09I mean, that's been going on for 30 years, you know, started back under Clinton.
9:13Obama accelerated it. Biden really took it to the max, you know, but it was
9:18basically like we're not going to permit mines.
9:20We're going to fight these things any way we possibly can.
9:23And we're going to save the planet by not doing it in America.
9:26Well, you know, we saved nothing because in the U .S., we did it cleaner,
9:29smarter, safer than anywhere else.
9:31And then we outsourced to China.
9:33China goes to the Congo in the middle of Africa.
9:37They go to Indonesia. They have no reclamation.
9:40They have no child labor laws.
9:42They have they have no no EPA, if you will.
9:47And so some of the biggest ecological disasters are occurring where China is doing mining
9:52and then and then they mine it and they don't care about that place.
9:55It's not China. They just tear it up, bring it back to China, control the
9:58processing in China. And then and then they basically have got the whole world hostage
10:03when they control 90 to 100 percent of some of these minerals.
10:07That's the only place you can get a refined product is from China.
10:10You know, that's why we had a ministerial, as they say, it's a new word
10:14I'm learning here from the State Department.
10:16But it was like you get all the energy ministers and all the mining ministers
10:20from all the world. We had 51 countries come to D .C.
10:23a couple of weeks ago.
10:24So they all want to cut a deal with the U .S.
10:27to be part of this club of nations where we will all trade amongst each
10:31other. We'll have price floors so that China can't do illegal dumping.
10:35And we'll have a solution that will take the rest of democracy, the democratic Western
10:41countries. We'll all be able to have a secure supply of critical minerals without being
10:45reliant on China. So, again, moving at Trump speed to solve some of these important
10:50national security issues. But. Venezuela, Venezuela issues.
10:54Yeah, that's right. Yes. And human rights issues.
10:57But in but Venezuela can also be a key part of that as well.
11:01And now just last night, we normalized relations with Venezuela.
11:05I mean, they're recognizing our ambassador.
11:07They're recognizing theirs. We're going to open up our embassy in Caracas again.
11:11They'll have an embassy here.
11:12There are relationships for businesses to start in capital, start flowing, and goods from Venezuela
11:19to keep flowing to the U .S.
11:21I mean, it's just incredible.
11:23I mean, all the doubters about President Trump on the day that he did this
11:28raid, you should go back and watch the tape.
11:29Because here, two months later, like, again, we're building incredible positive momentum.
11:35And we've got U .S.
11:36companies that know that they can do great things for America by working in Venezuela
11:42again, because that's where many of these companies were 20 years ago.
11:45The naysayers will criticize this and they'll say this is the United States stepping in
11:50and Donald Trump just wants to take their oil.
11:52But I want you to explain how this changes the GDP and the opportunity for
11:59growth and prosperity on the ground in Venezuela, because it is not.
12:02Venezuela was really under the control of China, I believe, when it came to their
12:06oil supply and under the control, really a very nefarious players.
12:12And it's critical for the United States to free them from that.
12:16Yes. Well, I'll give you one example.
12:19It's pretty simple because they were, you know, their oil industry under socialism had gone
12:25from almost 4 million barrels a day down to less than 800 ,000 barrels a
12:30day. I mean, North Dakota, for example, produces 1 .2 million barrels right now.
12:35So North Dakota was producing more than Venezuela.
12:37I mean, that's just a, I mean, it's kind of amazing how socialism can wreck
12:43an economy, but that was just one industry, but that was their big source of
12:46revenue. Well, then normally if you're Venezuela and you have a, they have a state
12:49controlled oil company, like many countries do, I'm going to sell it.
12:53I'm going to sell it for $60 a barrel.
12:55Well, if I'm, you know, producing a million barrels a day, I'm going to get
12:59$60 million in. If you sell one barrel, you get $60.
13:03China was saying, oh no, we loaned you money.
13:06You owe us some money.
13:08Oh, and by the way, you know, you guys are sanctioned.
13:10And so we're not going to pay full price.
13:12So they take a $60 barrel, they get a $30 discount and then they would
13:16take it. So then it says Venezuela was getting $30 instead of 60, but then
13:21China would go, but you owe us money.
13:22So we're going to take 15 % and apply that against your debt or another
13:26$15. So then in some cases, as recently as two months ago, Venezuela on a
13:31$60 barrel of oil, 15 million, you know, or one fourth of it of $15
13:39out of every barrel we're coming to, to, to Venezuela.
13:43So it means like literally China was taking three quarters and they were taking one
13:47quarter. So for them to be back and be able to sell oil on the
13:51world market at the full price, and then, and then work to split those proceeds
13:56with the U S you know, just overnight, we were doubling the revenue that they
14:00were getting on the same production.
14:01But now we bring in U S equipment, U S technology, U S team players,
14:06Chevron, who was one of the companies down there on Wednesday hit record production in
14:10two months. I mean, there, everything is scaling up for Venezuela.
14:14Uh, the people there have a sense of optimism about their future.
14:17Uh, and, and, uh, and of course, uh, capital was in, in human talents, ready
14:22to flow back in that country, which will have a huge benefit for the United
14:25States. And what is the leadership feeling like there?
14:29I know there was some concern having the vice president kind of step into that
14:33role. And was that also going to be a problem that they would be loyal
14:38to Maduro, but it seems like president Trump, Trump is pleased with what's going on
14:42in leadership there. Well, he's very pleased.
14:45And he, president Trump even tweeted about it yesterday.
14:48Well, I was in the meeting with, uh, uh, the acting president, Delcy Rodriguez.
14:53Uh, so, uh, you know, a Trump truth comes out talking about how he thinks
14:57she's doing a fantastic job.
14:59So that was very fun, uh, that, that, that happened.
15:02And then of course we met the next day.
15:03And then last night, uh, Marco Rubio and the president Trump, uh, you know, tweeted
15:08and truthed out that, uh, that we were, you know, formalizing and recognizing the country.
15:12So very fun, very fun time to be there.
15:15Uh, and of course, uh, one of the other things we talked about, they've got
15:18an enormous gold reserves. And so there'll be, uh, news coming on that.
15:23Cause just like oil and critical minerals, the U S can be a buyer of
15:26those products. Uh, and, and, uh, that, that's going to also be helpful on the
15:30precious metal side for America as well.
15:32Let's take a quick commercial break.
15:34We'll continue next on the Tudor Dixon podcast.
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19:22Download today. Do you think that the future of Venezuela will continue to rise up,
19:30or do you think there will be an undercurrent of the Maduro folks that could
19:33come back? I think that somewhere between 8 out of 10 or 9 out of
19:3810 people in Venezuela are celebrating the fact that Maduro's gone and they see President
19:45Trump as their liberator. I mean, this is a country that respects the U .S.
19:49They love following the NBA.
19:52They love following Major League Baseball.
19:54They're tied. You know, they're in the same hemisphere.
19:57They're, you know, they're only time zone -wise.
20:00They're one hour ahead of East Coast time zone.
20:03So they're aligned that way in terms of, you know, our news cycles or their
20:07cycles. So I just sensed a lot of optimism and positiveness on there.
20:12You know, and back when your question about what can we do on minerals, the
20:16other thing is like President Trump says, drill, baby, drill.
20:19We've got to mine, baby, mine.
20:20Also, we've got to get back in the mining business, even for things like copper.
20:24You know, those are things that we need for our power grid.
20:27We need them for electronics.
20:29And there's industries where we've got enormous, the United States has got enormous resources.
20:33We just have to have the will to develop them.
20:36But when we do, we know we'll do it cleaner, smarter, safer than anywhere in
20:38the world. So that's also great.
20:40That's also great for our heavy resource states.
20:43You are speaking my language now because I come from a manufacturing background and we
20:47used to do a lot.
20:48We used to make a lot of steel castings for mining companies.
20:51And those mining companies were not doing much mining in the United States.
20:55And those are big, big pieces of equipment to build and ship and move.
20:59And I know that even in the state of Michigan, we had had the availability
21:04to mine in the UP.
21:06And there were so many jobs lost under Obama and Biden and all of these
21:11Democrats that want to shut down any type of mining.
21:14But that was what we always said about not just mining, but also the foundry
21:19industry. You think that this is, in your mind, this is a dirty job.
21:23The United States does it better than any other country.
21:26We do it cleaner. This is where you want to have these things done.
21:29And you've been sold a book of lies to get all of this shut down.
21:34One other area I want to ask you about, because we're not familiar with this,
21:38is this new data center area.
21:41You, this is kind of like, this is your bread and butter.
21:44This is where you grew up in the data area.
21:47So - So - It's a big controversy right now in our state.
21:50I know across the country, people are going, I want local control.
21:53I don't want this in my backyard.
21:55They're getting a really bad rap on being huge pieces or huge buildings, taking up
22:02massive amounts of land, not a lot of jobs, lots of noise, energy costs are
22:08increasing, but they are also the future.
22:10So how do we marry that together and get people to understand that we can't
22:15demonize data centers, but we also have to have local control?
22:19Well, my first comment on this is for everybody locally is just stay curious.
22:25I mean, and don't believe everything you say, because you've talked about China early.
22:30China doesn't want us to build any of these.
22:34They're not data centers per se, they call them that, but this is where we
22:37manufacture intelligence. I mean, electricity has been a miracle.
22:40I mean, we were able to, you know, with going back to Thomas Edison, produce
22:47a light out of electricity.
22:49I mean, the light bulb invention and then using electricity for heat, capturing that, harnessing
22:53that, that changed the world.
22:55But now electricity can be converted into intelligence.
22:58And so being against a manufacturing plant that manufactures intelligence and people have all these
23:06complaints. Well, first of all, technology is going to solve some of the noise issue
23:09relates to fans. They're building these AI manufacturing sites right now or AI data centers.
23:15They're, you know, they're building them where they're liquid cooled.
23:18And so instead of a bunch of fans using a bunch of power, you're recycling
23:22and cooling liquid over them.
23:23So that's one piece. There are big advances that are happening on nuclear and geothermal
23:28that are just around the corner.
23:30They're going to help power these.
23:31And then yesterday at the White House, we had the rate payer protection event where
23:36the five big companies in America, the five big tech companies that are building most
23:40of these and have the big capital budgets, they all agreed that they're going to,
23:44I call it BYOP, bring your own power.
23:48They're going to be building power.
23:49And so when they build it, they'll build enough to run their data center or
23:53they'll build extra to be able to dump some back on the grid.
23:56In North Dakota, when I was governor still just 15 months ago, we were finishing
24:01up a project there where we were able to get the actual electric rates down
24:06for everybody in that rural area where the thing was going, not up because the
24:10company agreed to help buy down everybody's rates.
24:13I mean, electricity is worth more than it ever has been before.
24:16So versus instead of like getting out the pitchforks and the torches and hating on
24:20these proposals, I just would encourage local policymakers and state officials to go talk to
24:28these data center folks and say, what do you need?
24:30And then say, what do we need?
24:32I mean, we need lower electric rates.
24:33We need it to be quiet.
24:34Oh, and by the way, if you're going to build here, we would like to
24:37have you take some of your AI capacity and create a personalized tutor for every
24:43school kid in the whole state.
24:45And they will probably go, yes.
24:47Or they'd say, oh, we want you to partner with this hospital chain to go
24:50cure cancer. So we need some percentage of the AI you're generating has to go
24:55here to solve a problem in our state.
24:57I mean, it's like having 100 ,000 geniuses move into your backyard, but they're not
25:02going to compete on housing.
25:06I mean, they're not going to compete for you.
25:08You don't need to build more roads for them.
25:09You don't need to build more subdivisions.
25:11I mean, whatever. But all of a sudden, you got all this brainpower that shows
25:14up and start negotiating with these companies to get what you need to make it
25:19work for you. But to put a ban and say, we don't want that stuff.
25:23They're just going to go to the places and the places that end up with
25:26these are going to see quality of life improvements, educational improvements, health improvements.
25:32And there are all these benefits because being close to a, and again, when I
25:37say intelligence, you know, I've interviewed thousands of people in my tech career.
25:41I've never met anybody who speaks 27 languages fluently and is in the top 1
25:45% of the software developer coders in America.
25:49Even the generic AI today can do those two things.
25:52I mean, translate to more languages than you could ever imagine and can code.
25:57I mean, so there'll be software companies that get started tapping into this power.
26:02And so, you know, this is an asset and we need it strategically to compete
26:05against China. Absolutely. We need that.
26:08And any of the locals or states that say that they think they're winning, you
26:13know, by banning this stuff, they're buying into basically a narrative that China's pushing because
26:20China's building enormous amounts of electricity right now, enormous amounts of AI data centers.
26:27They'll do anything, including have misinformation campaigns online to get us to not do that.
26:32So I think this is actually so critical right now because that's what we're hearing
26:36in campaigns. Like I said, we're going into the midterms.
26:39This is a big discussion in our state, in many states.
26:42People are very scared, but I don't think that there's we don't understand it like
26:46you do. When you talk about intelligence, people on the ground don't understand what the
26:50opportunities are or what the consequences are of not having these these intelligence manufacturing centers
26:57because we could get so far behind and why China would want us behind.
27:01So I will just say that perhaps the tour of Secretary Bergman and Tudor Dixon
27:07should continue because, you know, we did that great chat up in Traverse City.
27:12But I mean, in reality, I do think that if we can.
27:15get people to kind of explain this in more detail.
27:17So I will say, I would love to have you back sometime so that we
27:21can talk about what exactly that intelligence is and people can understand a little bit
27:26deeper why it's important. And from a military standpoint, a national security standpoint, all of
27:31these things is so new to us who aren't in it every day.
27:34We don't get it. But I thank you so much for the time that you
27:37did spend here today. Secretary Doug Burgum, thank you so much.
27:41Thanks for explaining this. And thank you for what you're doing at home and overseas.
27:45Well, you're welcome, Tudor. And if you want a bonus minute, if I could, I'll
27:50just say one other thing.
27:51I mean, the war that's happening right now, I mean, if Iran is launching, like
27:57they did last year, 500 projectiles at Israel in one day, and Israel shoots down
28:01495 of them, that was last year during that 12 -day war.
28:06And then at home here in America, we go, oh, what was the score of
28:09the ballgame? I mean, it's like, no, artificial intelligence is at work right now protecting
28:14all of our allies in the Mideast.
28:16I mean, you don't shoot down, you know, 95 or 98 % of the incoming
28:21things if it's just a bunch of guys with good aim.
28:23No, it's like, you've got to be sophisticated on the targeting.
28:26Because in that particular example, 400 of those were low -flying drones that took six
28:30hours to get there. Another almost 100 were going to get there in two hours,
28:35throwing some ballistic ones that go out of the atmosphere and come down, going to
28:38land on Israel in 12 minutes.
28:39They're all timed to arrive at the same time.
28:41Well, if I got 20 rockets and they all shoot at one incoming, then 19
28:45get through. You know, so the complexity to be able to do that missile defense
28:52work absolutely requires AI. We cannot lose the AI arms race.
28:56I mean, that is a, you know, and they're tied.
28:59I mean, Iran having a nuclear weapon, existential threat.
29:02Losing the AI arms race, existential threat.
29:04If we want prosperity in the world and peace at home, we got to do
29:07both those things. And the last thing for those that live citizens of Michigan, I
29:12don't know what you think your property taxes are, but the other thing you can
29:15do in North Dakota, this is a $1 .2 billion data center in a town
29:21of 800 people. You know, I mean, a mile and a half out of town
29:24on some farmland. That thing is going to pay more property taxes than the whole
29:28town combined. So it's kind of like, what do you guys want?
29:31New school, new gym, new uniforms, new park.
29:35Oh, you want to eliminate your property taxes?
29:37Great. Just shift the whole burden over to this, you know, this multi -billion dollar
29:41data center. So, I mean, people, I say, stay curious, ask questions.
29:45There's a big opportunities for those communities that are interested in those that just say
29:50not here. You know, they might miss out some, some states and some communities will
29:55be curious enough to end up with a really great opportunity to benefit them for
30:00generations to come. I'm just going to say, I've said this before, but President Trump
30:06has the absolute best and most intelligent cabinet on the planet in history, in the
30:12history of the United States.
30:13Thank you. I mean, honestly, I'm so impressed every time I talk to anybody who
30:17is working in this administration, but everybody has this great knowledge base and you're so
30:22willing to share. And I will just say behind the scenes, everybody says to us
30:26that they love working with you.
30:28You are very, you've always been so kind and special to us.
30:31So thank you so much for coming on the podcast and sharing this.
30:34It's meaningful to me, but to all the people out there that are trying to
30:38figure this out, it's so meaningful that you spend time with us.
30:41Well, thank likewise, Tudor. Thank you for all you do.
30:44And thanks for using your voice and your talent, your skills to reach people and
30:49help people understand what the truth is and make sure that they can help make
30:54informed decisions because that's what we need to keep democracy going.
30:57Yes, absolutely. Thank you. Thank you so much.
30:59And thank you all for listening to the Tudor Dixon podcast.
31:02Make sure you check out the next episode at TudorDixonPodcast .com and have a blessed
31:07day. It's happening across America.
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