The Manosphere Report

0:00This is an iHeart Podcast.

0:02Guaranteed human. Welcome, everybody, to the Monday, April 20th edition of the Clay Travis and

0:10Buck Sexton Show. Said the date out loud, so I can't believe how fast this

0:14month is flying by. A lot going on.

0:18Trump was at a TPUSA event.

0:22He touched on a whole bunch of things.

0:25The MAGA doctrine among them.

0:28Something really interesting that I just want to put on your radar early so that

0:32you are sure to join us later on in the program for it.

0:36And that is Trump signing an executive order on substances like Ibogaine.

0:44Now, I am a little bit familiar with some of these psychedelics, which is what

0:51Ibogaine is, that have been used, according to many operators from the special operations in

0:58particular that I know, with remarkable success to help our warriors who have serious PTSD.

1:06We're going to talk to our friend David Rutherford, who is, of course, a former

1:10Navy SEAL. He's a member of the Clay and Buck Podcast Network, does a great

1:14show, the David Rutherford Show.

1:15He'll be with us in the third hour of the program at the very top,

1:18so that's 2 Eastern, to talk about how big a deal this Ibogaine shift is

1:25from the FDA, the federal government side, thanks to a Trump executive order, and what

1:29this means for so many veterans who have to deal with these demons from the

1:36inside left over from war, and have to deal with these traumas.

1:39And so Rutt's going to speak just about that.

1:41It's very personal for him because he has a lot of friends.

1:43Rutt's a combat veteran as a Navy SEAL, and he doesn't talk about his stories

1:48very often, but for those of you who are also combat veterans, he's the real

1:52deal, guys, and he has a lot of friends who are the realest of real

1:56deal when it comes to their military service, a lot of comrades in arms.

1:59So he'll join us to talk about that, but it's really interesting because, Clay, I

2:02know people have been pushing for this for years, and Trump finally is just saying,

2:07we've got to see if this is actually a modality that's going to cure some

2:11of, or even just dramatically improve some of our veterans who have wounds on the

2:17inside, then that's something we absolutely have an obligation to chase that down and to

2:23see where that takes us.

2:24So we'll talk about that.

2:25More on Zoran Mamdani, which is going to be interesting.

2:30I'm going to be in New York, Clay, later this week.

2:33Yes. And I'll come back with reports from the front lines about how it looks

2:37in Midtown and what's happening, because I'll be in our studio there.

2:39You're going to be helping to fund the New York City government.

2:43That hurts, you know? That hurts.

2:45Salt in the wounds, right?

2:46He's just talking right away.

2:47Yeah, we, you know, if you're a fall into certain categories, this is why Rush

2:51avoided New York. Rush avoided New York City like a lot of planes have been

2:57avoiding Iranian airspace after a while.

2:59He just would not even, would not mess, would not go near because they'll ding

3:04you per day worked is the rule.

3:06So if you are an athlete, if you are a traveling performer of any kind,

3:11so if you show up to do a sporting event, Broadway, radio, TV, they can

3:16hit you for the, for per day.

3:18And there's no, even a lot, some states have like a 10 day, okay, you

3:23can be here for 10 days.

3:24Nope. Per day, they will hit you.

3:26So we'll, we'll talk about this.

3:28And then there's other interesting stuff on the, let's dive into Iran straight away here,

3:33because I've been setting up a lot of stuff, but clay here is the situation.

3:37Trump sharing this out. I'm going to read this.

3:40I want you to react because I was feeling, I was starting to feel a

3:42little bit on the more optimistic side of things, more on the clay side of

3:47this rowboat that we are in.

3:49And now the rowboat's feeling a little rickety.

3:52I'm not saying it's taken on water, but it's feeling a little, and I'm feeling

3:56pretty confident about my, the ceasefire is going to end with an extension of the

3:59ceasefire prediction from the very beginning.

4:01Here's what Trump said. Iran decided to fire bullets yesterday in the Strait of Hormuz,

4:06a total violation of our ceasefire agreement.

4:08Many of them were aimed at a French ship and a freighter from the United

4:11Kingdom. That wasn't nice, was it?

4:14Question mark. My representatives are going to Islamabad, Pakistan.

4:18They will be there tomorrow evening for negotiations.

4:20Iran recently announced they were closing the Strait, which is strange because our blockade has

4:25already closed it. They're helping us without knowing, and they are the ones that lose

4:29with the closed passage, $500 million a day.

4:32Clay, I can continue this on later to get to more details, but I want

4:35your reaction to where this is right now.

4:37Are you feeling like everything is cool, brother?

4:39Everything's going exactly according to plan.

4:41I'm still very optimistic because here's what I think happened.

4:45I think President Trump got ahead of the deal that was supposed to be announced.

4:50Iran was not happy about the fact that he was basically taking a victory lap,

4:56and the reality is this.

4:59There is a difference between what can sometimes be said publicly and what can be

5:06said privately, and let me just put it to you this way.

5:09I'm not so much worried about the United States side of this buck, so let's

5:13put that to the side here for a moment.

5:15If you are the leader of Iran, and you are seen as basically bending the

5:21knee in all facets to Trump, and you are the leader of Iran.

5:24and you are the leader of Iran, and you are the leader of Iran, the

5:25united states how can you retain power in iran i don't think that you can

5:31so what we're seeing play out in my opinion is trump is going to claim

5:36victory on the way that this war comes to a close and iran is going

5:41to claim victory on the way that this war comes to a close the trump

5:46side is less significant and let me explain what i mean by less significant trump's

5:50going to be in power no matter what happens so trump taking a victory lap

5:55is potentially good for his overall approval ratings and uh for putting a bow on

6:02this uh action but it isn't necessarily hugely important to trump as much as everything

6:11getting in in line and work as we get ready for the midterms if iran

6:15is seen as losing in this negotiation all of the iranian leaders may get murdered

6:21by other people in iran who are trying to take power so to me what

6:26i see as this uh the challenge here is we have to give iran something

6:32so that the iranian leadership can feel like they are still actually leaders as opposed

6:40to puppets of america and so trump is not someone you remember buck when obama

6:47said we didn't need to spike the football on osama bin laden and they just

6:51jumped dumped his body at sea and they didn't really make a big deal of

6:57the dead body like we did it make a huge deal i think you could

7:01argue that just dumping the body at sea was kind of spiking the football but

7:04yeah sure yeah but look i i think we need to get trump not to

7:09high step into the end zone here uh to use the sports analogy wow you're

7:14that confident that you think that he doesn't want to look like he's smushing the

7:19iranian leaders face in it so to speak i don't know i don't know that

7:24trump can win without high stepping into the end zone and if i were giving

7:29trump advice here it would be you know score the touchdown and hand the ball

7:34back to the official to use the sports analogy we don't need to spike the

7:38football we don't need a deon standard style high step into the end zone where

7:42everybody's looking at you we have to give in some way and i don't know

7:47exactly what this looks like but we have to give these iranian figureheads the idea

7:54that they got something in this negotiation or they may not still exist uh but

7:59let me give it can i give you the other half of this and then

8:01clay captain optimistic captain optimistic he's going to give you his sense of where this

8:06is um the united states loses nothing in fact many ships many ships are headed

8:12right now this is from trump's truth social to the u .s texas louisiana and

8:16alaska to load up on oil compliments of the irgc always wanting to be the

8:22tough guy in quotes we're offering a very fair and reasonable deal i hope they

8:26take it if they don't the u .s is going to knock out every single

8:29power plant bridge in iran no more mr nice guy in caps they'll come down

8:35fast and easy if they don't take the deal i'll do what has to be

8:39done should have been done by other presidents for the last 47 years in caps

8:45clay it's time for the iran killing machine to end president donald j trump what

8:49say you i think all of that is correct and i think what we saw

8:55happen over the weekend is trump high stepped into the end zone and then iran

8:59said oh the strait of hormuz is not open and then trump said well we've

9:02got a blockade like we control everything and then we took an iranian ship we

9:07are the godzilla we are the big bad uh force here in terms of power

9:13right and so i think what's going on uh is iran is trying to figure

9:20out a way to save face and i think we have to help them and

9:23some of you are going to say why and the answer is because if we

9:26don't help whoever we're negotiating with they're going to get killed and uh and they're

9:31going to be seen as so weak inside of their own country that they're going

9:34to be wiped out and so i think that's the challenge right iran is in

9:39a much more difficult negotiating perspective than we are and president trump is pointing out

9:44something that i said that i didn't hear anybody else saying at all prior to

9:47us discussing on the show america is energy independent and we are making a ton

9:53of money in the oil and gas space and as a result um we aren't

9:59in the same position that we were in the 90s we aren't in the same

10:02position that china's in we aren't in the same position that europe is in we

10:05are in an incredibly strong negotiating perspective which is why we could blockade the entire

10:10strait of hormuz and say if you need oil and gas come to the united

10:13states now uh the gas prices have started to back up uh and again i

10:20always have to say this it's unbelievable how many of you have to tell me

10:24exactly what you paid for gas every time i talk about gas prices we should

10:28just take calls for like the back half the hour tell clay he's wrong about

10:31gas prices because you went to your local gas station and he's wrong gas prices

10:36have peaked they have come back about 10 or 12 or 15 cents on average

10:42nationwide i think they're going to continue to fall as we go forward the panic

10:46is uh is resolved in many ways um i believe that we are going to

10:51have oil and gas you Thank you.

10:52prices that are very similar to what we saw on february 28th right around 68

10:57barrel of oil and gas i expect that we will see that those prices similar

11:02by the time we get to the fall leading into the midterms that's my prediction

11:07people can take issue with it i think you'll all be paying on average about

11:11three dollars a gallon of gas by the time we get to the midterms and

11:14that's about what everybody was paying on average uh before the iran situation started so

11:20to me buck this is a really kind of uh interesting negotiation because it requires

11:27it requires that we find ourselves in a position where we can give an off

11:34-ramp to iran and this is why i said when it comes to the nuclear

11:38dust maybe we have to go take it because if we go take it even

11:44if it's a negotiated taking then iran doesn't look to me as weak as if

11:50they just hand it back to us and so we have to figure out how

11:54to give iran enough of an idea and i think unfreezing the iranian assets is

12:00going to be a big part of this because they're going to argue that's reparations

12:04we're going to argue we're just allowing them money back and the funniest thing to

12:08me about all this is the biggest advocate that iran is going to have is

12:14going to be the american legacy media because many of them are going to they

12:18want to argue that iran despite losing their entire navy basically their entire air force

12:23uh and us being able to blockade land in their country save one of our

12:28soldiers and the fact that they basically could do nothing to us for the entire

12:32war they want to argue that trump lost they don't really want to argue that

12:37iran won they just want to argue that trump lost so the funniest thing here

12:41to me is the biggest advocate for iran in terms of the media perception of

12:46negotiation is going to be msnbc and the new york times which hate trump so

12:51much that unless i think i made the joke that he's going to have to

12:54hold up the nuclear dust buck like simba from the lion king from the truman

12:59balcony for anybody to acknowledge that he actually did anything did you see that viral

13:04clip with the comedian by the way where he had a friend who actually uh

13:08speaks i believe it's swahili come on to translate the first line of the lion

13:13king it just went viral like oh yes and it means absolutely nothing like well

13:17yeah look a lion oh my gosh yes apparently that's apparently what the opening of

13:24the lion king song really is so there you go who knew all this time

13:29it all makes sense um but yes i i think uh look clay is feeling

13:34super confident about this meanwhile iranians are shooting at ships and causing problems and the

13:39ships aren't actually going through the strait of hormuz yet that isn't happening yet so

13:43some of them are a little bit but a lot of them aren't so the

13:47strait is not really open everybody uh it will be i hope and clay thinks

13:52very soon i think kind of soon but uh i wouldn't want to be a

13:57ship captain right now trying to figure that one out so that we should say

14:00news wise buck they're supposed to be meeting in uh pakistan on thursday that's the

14:07latest i think because i believe that's when the two weeks is supposed to expire

14:11if i'm not uh mistaken in my timing so we will see how exactly that

14:16shakes out in the meantime continues to be very dangerous in as you might well

14:21imagine in uh all of the middle east and we're very happy to be part

14:26of the team that is helping to make people as safe as possible in israel

14:30i saw the work that they do this is not partisan work this is hey

14:34let's have safe secure uh hospitals let's have as many different bomb shelters as we

14:41possibly can let's feed as many people who are in need of food and drink

14:46as we possibly can this is what the ifcj does that's the international fellowship of

14:52christians and jews is just taking care of people in need in israel uh and

14:58they do a tremendous amount of work for so many people uh who need all

15:02of the help they can get again in israel you're constantly running into bomb shelters

15:06uh hospitals are having to be moved underground all of this is incredibly necessary and

15:11important and you can give 45 right now to rush life -saving essentials to the

15:16vulnerable under fire in israel by calling 888 -488 -IFCJ that's 888 -488 -IFCJ 888

15:27-488 -IFCJ online at ifcj .org that's ifcj .org common sense never sounded so good

15:39clay and buck owning the airwaves welcome in hour number two clay travis buck sexton

15:47show uh we'll see how many different uh callers want to tell me i'm nuts

15:51here in the second hour of the program i'm on a real run in the

15:55first hour we've been discussing iran discussions that are scheduled for tomorrow negotiations on tuesday

16:04as the ceasefire nears and end president trump has said that he's unlikely to extend

16:09the ceasefire deadline i would suggest to you that trump is not unlikely to extend

16:16the ceasefire deadline buck i think you've been saying you thought it was likely that

16:20it would be extended for some time i've predicted day one this ceasefire it's going

16:24to be a big beautiful agreement to agree to talk about a future agreement just

16:29watch trump says it will expire for the record on wednesday evening united states time

16:35uh and there are reports that iran is sending a negotiating team as well as

16:41the united states uh sending a negotiated team uh negotiation team uh and again president

16:48trump saying it's highly unlikely that a truce will be extended uh now so that

16:54is out there i laid out to me what i think are the goals of

16:59the united states nuclear dust seized in some way by us and the straight open

17:05for commerce without any threats no blockade by us no danger of uh true uh

17:12the tankers being seized as we did and no dangers of any attacks on any

17:18of the oil and gas ships or uh that are attempting to transit the region

17:23so we will see what happens there um and we'll take some of your calls

17:27from many different people uh involved in analyzing the situation in iran but i did

17:33want to mention this buck as we come up on the midterms maybe the most

17:37significant redistricting decision being made by a state other than florida because florida still has

17:44to make a decision on redistricting and the supreme court still has to make a

17:48decision on redistricting which we will talk about shortly is the attempt of virginia and

17:54their newly elected democrat governor abigail spanberger to effectively eliminate republican congressional seats in the

18:02state uh i believe buck this would take uh us to uh essentially a one

18:07i think this is the the plan is there would effectively be one republican who

18:12would be representing uh the state of virginia a state where trump won roughly 45

18:1846 percent of the vote in the 2024 election so not quite a 50 50

18:25state but virginia was one of two states that the trump team really does believe

18:30buck the new jersey and virginia the trump team thinks if they had had kamala

18:36harris level money if they had been able to in other words spend a billion

18:41dollars uh like kamala harris did um uh way more money that kamala spent than

18:47was spent by the trump team that they could have flipped to new jersey and

18:52they could have flipped uh virginia i believe they lost both states by roughly five

18:56points so very competitive state uh where a huge number of you are listening to

19:02us right now in virginia and voted republican they just elected a republican governor in

19:072021 glenn youngkin you can only serve one term buck i think you sign off

19:11with me that if you had been able to serve a second term glenn youngkin

19:16probably would have won pretty comfortably in virginia because he had really high favorability ratings

19:21people were very happy on average with his overall uh leadership there so this is

19:28a huge step um we will see what the vote is going to be reportedly

19:33is going to be close but it would effectively end the uh republican party having

19:38any sort of substantial stake in the congressional districts of virginia and the way they

19:43would do this and this is significant is they basically are flooding all of the

19:47districts in northern virginia which is the most democrat by far they're taking away all

19:53of the power of the the so -called lower virginia of the parts that border

19:58uh west virginia and tennessee and north carolina and basically doing away uh with the

20:04power of all of those people can i also just remind everyone here because this

20:09is not a uh a both sides ism democrats when it comes to power go

20:17for the jugular every time every time you know like a bengal tiger jumping out

20:25of the tall grass onto some little villager some hapless villager somewhere and just going

20:30right for the throat democrats i thought that was kind of stark imagery for you

20:35all democrats um they just go for it meanwhile clay we have a fantastic heritage

20:43radio station in indiana for example whoa whoa so many of you whoa whoa listeners

20:48know exactly what i'm going to say when trump tells indiana hey guys redistrict that

20:55thing as strongly as he can for the republicans it is lawful it is within

21:01your power just do it the uh the the senators the state senators decided no

21:09it's not nice it sets a bad precedent we're not going to do that we

21:15don't want a mid -cycle we don't want a mid -cycle redraw uh okay well

21:21look what look over virginia i mean it's just it's a perfect example what about

21:25a year a year apart democrats have a chance to just completely gut the gop

21:31for congressional seats in their state they do it as much as they possibly doesn't

21:36matter the map have you seen the map but like the actual physical map you

21:39know i'm looking i'm looking at it right now as you are talking about this

21:42i'm legitimately looking at the maps and it is outlandish the way in which they

21:47are viewing it all to northern virginia to ensure that they have blue voters in

21:52districts that there's no basis at all to have blue voters in and i just

21:57i just have to remind you all that you know in indiana i bright remember

22:01virginia is a purple state indiana is a bright red state and in our bright

22:07red state a bunch of gop principled guys in the state senate were like no

22:13we're not going to do that gerrymandering even though trump wants it the republican party

22:16wants it we're not going to do it we're just not going to and then

22:19virginia in a very purple state goes all the way to the max for the

22:24democrat party clay this stuff in a tight senate or rather a tight congress this

22:29stuff makes a difference huge difference and let me hit you with more of the

22:32data on this um and again the voting is going on tomorrow it is a

22:37redistricting amendment that would take it from six to five democrat favored to ten to

22:44one democrat favored so democrats would pick up four congressional seats in a you know

22:51united states uh country where four congressional districts very likely could swing now i'll talk

22:57about florida in a sec and the supreme court buck but in 2024 kamala harris

23:02got 51 .8 of the vote donald trump got 46 .05 so about five point

23:10what six or seven percent difference so again 46 percent of virginia voters said we

23:17are republicans in 2024 they would go down to one now florida still has to

23:23decide what they're going to do and there has been some talk that florida could

23:27still redistrict may be partly determined by what happens here but the biggest part of

23:32this buck the supreme court still has a decision to uh to render here likely

23:38being written by justice alito and in that supreme court decision uh it is likely

23:45that majority minority racial gerrymandering will be ruled unconstitutional which could cost democrats double digit

23:55seats particularly in the south now it's unlikely however that that decision is going to

24:02come out in time for it to be applied for 2026 so it would not

24:07come out until 2028 meaning democrats are trying to rig things as much as they

24:13can in the meantime now uh so so this story is big if you are

24:18listening to us in virginia it's very close even though democrats uh in virginia had

24:24a lot of success just last november uh there is a uh there is not

24:29uh some certainty over whether it's going to pass or not in fact as i'm

24:33talking to you buck i'm going to look up and see what the forecast prediction

24:37markets are uh but i would say it's a small favorite likely to pass but

24:43this is still something where if you're listening to us and you are a republican

24:46and you go out and vote that this is still one that could be won

24:51but i do think it's important that we're talking about look i mean from six

24:57to five to ten to one in a state that is super close they are

25:02saying uh that this is uh that they're willing to do to your point buck

25:06whatever is necessary in order to win and right now there is an 84 chance

25:12on the prediction markets that this is going to pass tomorrow so there is a

25:16decent likelihood that when we start the show on wednesday when we sit down to

25:21to talk with all of you at noon eastern on wednesday we're going to be

25:25saying democrats in virginia did what republicans in indiana were not willing to do what

25:32republicans uh have not been willing to do there's no state like this buck there

25:37will not be a state that is 51 to 46 like this with a 10

25:42to 1 slant like we are seeing in virginia virginia will be the most gerrymandered

25:49competitive state anywhere in the nation and by the way there are lots of other

25:53states where if you look at this democrats have been more aggressive in gerrymandering than

26:00republicans largely have uh particularly when you look at relatively close states like virginia so

26:07we will see what ends up happening uh going forward but that referendum is big

26:12news and the supreme court decision when it eventually comes out is also huge news

26:18uh as we all sit and wait uh to see what will happen with those

26:23results tomorrow and by the way when do we have uh molly hemingway on is

26:26she on tuesday i think with us to talk about the alito case buck did

26:30you read the revelations from her book i can't wait to talk with her about

26:35this tomorrow about the uh members of the conservative majority on dobbs went to the

26:43liberals and said people are threatening to kill us because this opinion has been leaked

26:48as we talked about on this program was likely to be the case and they

26:52begged the democrat members of the supreme court to go ahead and get their dissents

26:58written so the case once it's published it's law but until it's published as we

27:03told you and as the person who showed up to try to kill brett kavanaugh

27:07knew until it's published there is no uh final verdict so you had a situation

27:13where there could be some you killed to try and swing, or multiple people killed,

27:18to try and swing the outcome of the Dobbs case, and they wouldn't accelerate the

27:23writing of their actual opinions, even despite the danger.

27:28The allegation, actually, Clay, is that they went in the opposite direction, that they slow

27:32-rolled it, which means they were hoping that the pressure of assassination threats against their

27:39colleagues might jog their memories about the disgusting.

27:45These people worship abortion, they worship Moloch, it is grotesque, it is child sacrifice, and

27:53the Democrat Party will have this as a stain on its soul for all time,

27:58regardless of what the Supreme Court says or does not say.

28:03So that case, as we wait for it, we'll talk about this a lot with

28:07Molly Hemingway tomorrow, but I would encourage you, if you haven't already read, to read

28:11that report about the way all of that is potentially going to be working itself

28:18out. We've got loaded lines, we'll get to some of your calls, and make sure

28:23that we get all your feedback in as the Iran negotiations continue, the negotiations surrounding

28:29whether the negotiations will continue, potentially, is the way to put that best.

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29:36Do it today. If you truly care, pass along this common sense to family and

29:42friends. Clay and Buck, owning the airway.

29:45Third hour of Clay and Buck kicks off right now.

29:48We are joined by David Rutherford.

29:51He is host of the David Rutherford Show on the Clay and Buck Podcast Network,

29:56which is growing month after month after month.

29:59The more of you find out about it, the more of you are diehard listeners.

30:03He's also a former Navy SEAL, saw combat in Afghanistan.

30:07We call him Rutt, by the way.

30:09Mr. Rutt, great to have you on, sir.

30:11Thank you. Gentlemen, it is a glorious day to be on with Clay and Buck

30:18today. I've got to tell you, big things are happening for the veterans community right

30:22now. Yes, they are. In fact, let's have the big guy himself lay out some

30:26of this, and then I want to have you react to it.

30:29We're talking here about a Trump executive order, everybody, to help with veterans via psychedelic

30:36treatment for PTSD. This is what Trump said when he was signing this executive order,

30:39and Dave, we'll have you respond to this.

30:42This is cut six, guys.

30:43Play it. In 2024, a study from Stanford University, 30 special operation veterans with traumatic

30:50brain injuries underwent. It's called ibogaine treatment.

30:56Ibogaine. Remember the name. Is that pronounced relatively properly, would you say?

31:01Yes, sir. I don't want to get it wrong.

31:03Ibogaine, because it's so important.

31:05I've experienced an 80 % to 90 % reduction in symptoms of depression and anxiety

31:11within one month. Can I have some, please?

31:18I'll take whatever it takes.

31:22I don't have time to be depressed.

31:24You know, if you stay busy enough, maybe that works, too.

31:27And that's what I do.

31:30All right, Rutt. Ibogaine, talk to us about this.

31:33How big a deal is it?

31:34What do you know about people that have used it?

31:36Go for it. So the biggest thing that everybody has to understand is that the

31:41epidemic of suicides within our special operations community and our regular veteran community are off

31:47the charts. The whole number of 22 a day, it's way more than that.

31:50It's gotten progressively worse over time.

31:53We saw a massive uptick in suicides, addictions, both alcoholism and pharmaceutical addiction post -COVID

32:01again initially. The numbers are through the roof.

32:03And so there's been this great breakthrough treatment down run by Marcus Capone and his

32:09team called the Vets Program, where guys were going down to Mexico.

32:13They had discovered this, you know, some as far as, you know, eight, nine, ten

32:17years ago. And what they would do is they would take Ibogaine, which is from

32:22an alkaloid root over in the central West African area.

32:27They turn this into a liquid or they smoke it.

32:31And then they have this anywhere from eight to 24 hour revelatory experience where basically

32:38they're doing is they're rerouting neuropathways by turning on.

32:43aspects of their brain that essentially just haven't been in use because of all the

32:47exposure from long -term training and deployments, as well as the impacts on that physiologically

32:54and through behavioral health stuff, which ultimately a lot of people, a lot of us

33:00are calling the operator syndrome.

33:01So they started going down and they had this revelatory experience.

33:05You can find a great documentary on Netflix called Waves of War, where three Navy

33:11SEALs go through the process, including Marcus Capone talks about his process and how it

33:17saved his life. It saved his marriage.

33:19It saved him as a father, basically rerouting and bringing back neuroplasticity so he can

33:27have a better, more productive life as a result of the impact that he experienced

33:32through exposure. So, but it's been, you know, a schedule class schedule one drug along

33:38with all other psychedelics. That's psilocybin.

33:41That's LSD. That's, uh, ayahuasca, all these drugs that were just completely, uh, demonized.

33:49And as the counter -cultural revolution got started in the late 1960s, that's Timothy Leary.

33:54That's all these guys back in the day, they shut it down.

33:57They ended it. And well, well, we've gone down to discover this is having revolutionary,

34:02uh, positive impacts on people.

34:04I mean, I have 25 friends that have gone down to Mexico in this specific

34:09treatment, doing the Ibogaine one day, day off, and then doing 5 -EMO -EDMT, which

34:14you get off the back of a toad and having these experiences.

34:17And they're able to come back and almost like the, the numbers are like this

34:22one Stanford study that the president quoted, PSD symptoms down 88 % within one month,

34:2871 % no longer meet PSD requirement, depression down 80 for 87 % anxiety down

34:3581%. Now you need to recognize it's not a miracle drug.

34:38It's not permanent in total all the time, but what it does is interrupts these

34:43opioid receptors, interrupts these addiction receptors and regenerates a new neural pathway to constitute more

34:50natural, healthy dopaminergic, dopaminergic, again, I can never say it, dopaminergic receptors to have that,

34:58uh, kind of steadier baseline.

35:00So the veteran can begin to reintegrate in their lives and have a more functional

35:05way to approach life itself.

35:08David Rutherford with us. Uh, you can find all of his work as a part

35:12of the clay and buck podcast network.

35:14We got a lot of great talent in there.

35:16Many of you are really enjoying the podcast.

35:18What is the danger here?

35:20Uh, because, you know, sometimes when it comes to experimental drugs, uh, you look at

35:24them and you say, okay, worst case scenario, you've got someone who's on, uh, the,

35:28the pathway, let's say to, to, to death.

35:31And you say, well, we can take a risk here to see whether this might

35:34work because there isn't necessarily a lot of life left on the other side.

35:40Most of these guys, I would imagine tend to be young now within that, that

35:44construct, what is it? 21 former veterans a day commit suicide.

35:48It's an extraordinary, unbelievable, uh, awful story.

35:52Is it worth the risk?

35:54I guess, given what we've got here or what is the downside?

35:59Yeah, this is not your recreational.

36:01I'm going to follow the grateful dead and, you know, take a hit of acid

36:05and, you know, trip off the side and my, you know, kind of guru type

36:09mentality, right? It's not that at all.

36:11Ibogaine is an experience. Most people who go through it will never want to do

36:15again. It's, it's really powerful.

36:17It's really intense. There can be vomiting.

36:20There can be confusion. There can be a little bit of anxiety, but all of

36:24this is monitored, right? And the, the, the, you know, that's, what's critical to understand.

36:28There's doctors there. There's active nurses.

36:31One of the only real significant health risk is for a cardiac event.

36:36What happens is your QRS complex has a little bit of disruption because of the

36:41medicine itself. But what they do is they put guys on a magnesium drip during

36:45it and it removes the potentiality of that.

36:48But otherwise psychedelics are not addictive, right?

36:51They don't cause any stroke.

36:53They don't cause any of these other pumps.

36:55Now they're, you know, obviously we have a tremendous amount of research and that's what

36:59this executive order, as well as what was passed in Texas and their legislation to

37:05fund $50 million from the state of Texas for Ibogaine and other psychedelic research.

37:11And that's what it is.

37:13It's, it's, it's, there's still this monster challenge in front of us because you still

37:18have big pharma that essentially wants to control the, the entire drug space out there

37:24in particular for mental health drugs.

37:25So there's going to be a lot of hurdles to overcome.

37:28What this does is it gives us a little breaching charge.

37:32It pushes in this monster bureaucracy and allows us to begin to do the research,

37:37which we need. And so I just interviewed a guy named Thomas Cito, a 16

37:42year Navy SEAL, a combat veteran, incredibly unbelievable story of what he went through when

37:49he got out as well to a horrible divorce.

37:52He lost his trident because he was trying to self -medicate with marijuana and the

37:57Naval special warfare community kicked him out instead of going, wow, the, the handful of

38:01psychotropic pills we gave him are making them worse.

38:04Right. And, and then he, you know, all these problems.

38:07Well, he went down seven years ago.

38:08Did Ibogaine saved his life.

38:10and now is leading the charge in Tennessee.

38:13And what he describes for an hour on the show, and that show will drop

38:17a week from today on Monday on the David Rutherford Show, you can hear the

38:23specifics of the neurological benefits, the medical benefits, the emotional benefits to it.

38:31And then what he talks about is the step -by -step process, how this is

38:35going to begin to really impact the greater population.

38:39Because a lot of times what they're saying now, Clay, is it's just as inappropriate

38:43for Navy SEALs or Green Berets or any of that, but we can apply it

38:48for firefighters, police officers, first responders, and to the broader context, people that are suffering

38:54from really substantial childhood trauma that they experience or post -traumatic stress disorder.

39:01So there's others as well, right, right, Rut?

39:04Like they're talking about psychedelics, Ibogaine is one of them.

39:08That's the one I've heard about the most.

39:10You and I have talked about this a little bit before in the context of

39:12operator syndrome and what some of these guys are trying to do, trying to go

39:16through for modalities to address this.

39:19There's also, and this one I had heard about before, the 5 -MEO -DMT from,

39:26it's a venom or secretion of the Sonoran Desert Toad.

39:30This is another intense psychedelic that has been used in this, ketamine, MDMA, psilocybin, also

39:37known as magic mushrooms. I mean, there are other subs, correct?

39:40Because Ibogaine is the big one that people have really been having incredible, but there

39:43are others that would be covered under this executive order, as I understand it.

39:48A hundred percent. Like you talk about 5 -EMO -DMT, your brain naturally produces a

39:53form of this substance through your pineal gland.

39:56And so, and that one is not 8 to 24 hours.

39:59That's like a 20 -minute experience.

40:00They actually call that the God particle and has really positive impacts on well -being

40:06and just how you identify the self, right?

40:10But psilocybin has been being studied at Johns Hopkins for years now.

40:15There's a huge funding research going on there.

40:18One of the most prolific studies that's often cited with just psilocytum in itself, it

40:22was given to geriatric patients suffering with terminal cancer in their final stages of cancer.

40:29And what you had is you had an 80 % reduction in anxiety or depression

40:34that was relative to the finality of their disease.

40:38And so it gave these people this sense of relief of what was the impending

40:44nature of their upcoming demise, right?

40:46And so, yeah, the spectrum of psychedelics is very wide, very broad spectrum.

40:53And I think it really could have a prolific experience, especially for a nation that

40:58has as much mental health challenges as we have in America.

41:02What does it say about President Trump that this was able to come about so

41:06quickly? Joe Rogan was there and said, hey, I texted Trump about the need for

41:11this. And almost instantaneously, Trump said, okay, let's find out a way to get this

41:17done. Obviously, there's regular government speed and then there's Trump speed.

41:22This seems to be a pretty good example of Trump accelerating the government's ability to

41:26give veterans the opportunity to try this treatment.

41:30I think for us, obviously, you know, operator syndrome is not gaining traction within the

41:36VA. They don't want to identify it.

41:38They want to stay fixated on big, large -scale movements like, you know, burn pit

41:44exposure or post -traumatic stress disorder itself.

41:47And so they – and they really have a very strong control of big farmer

41:51because they kind of regulate the massive amount of sales they have directly through the

41:56VA. So when Trump comes out and does this – and if you looked at

42:00who was standing behind him, it was Marcus Luttrell.

42:03Man, I had a huge show before with Marcus.

42:05You know, I put him through training.

42:06His brother Morgan's there. He was a congressman in Texas.

42:09You had Rob O 'Neill there who shot bin Laden, who I went through hell

42:13week with. You've got Marcus Capone and his wife who started the program.

42:17I mean, and now you have all these other veterans.

42:20So when this could be, from our perspective as veterans who are struggling, the greatest

42:26thing that we've seen President Trump or any president, for that matter, truly taking a

42:33focus on what it means to take care of the mental and medical health of

42:39a generation that you ask to go to war for 22 straight years.

42:43It's phenomenal. When's the next David Rutherford show going to drop?

42:47I'm sure you're going to be talking about this in detail.

42:49Are you going to have anyone else from the special warfare community joining you?

42:52What can people expect this week?

42:55This week, I'm addressing a real difficult topic with veterans and what's going on in

43:02the Iran war. I flew out to Idaho a few weekends ago, and I'm going

43:06to bring on a Green Beret named Clay Martin and an A -10 pilot named

43:09Dale Stark. And we're really going to go through what service meant to us, whether

43:13we would change it, whether we would tell our kids or what, because all of

43:17us are receiving DMs about, should I join?

43:20Should I not join? And so we really explore the magnitude of what it means

43:24to service. And guess what?

43:26This is a part of that service, right?

43:28You go in, you go into special operations, or you go into a high state

43:34of vigilance for 10 plus, 20 years as an A -10 pilot or whatever.

43:38You're going to have to deal with the ramifications of that exposure.

43:43And so one of the things before is, you know, unfortunately, we would say, you

43:46know, your government is going to ask you to go to war extensively over and

43:50over, but then they're going to turn their backs and not take care of you

43:53with this massive epidemic of suicides.

43:56But now, you know, this is going to change the topic.

43:59And so, like I said, I just interviewed a guy named Tommy Asito.

44:02We're going to drop that show a week from today, Monday, and that'll be a

44:08comprehensive one -hour show about this very topic of Ibogaine, 5 -EMO -DMT, and what

44:15it means for our community.

44:17David Rutherford, thank you, my friend.

44:19Great to have you with us today.

44:21And of course, as a part of the podcast network where you are crushing it,

44:24I appreciate you, sir. Hoo -yah.

44:27God bless you guys. Keep rocking.

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45:43Looking for normal in a world of crazy?

45:47Clay and Buck have your back.

45:49Welcome back in here to Clay and Buck.

45:52So, we've got a lot to discuss here.

45:56I want to get into this a little bit, Clay, because I'm going to be

46:00in New York in a few days.

46:02And New York, what? You're looking at me like, is that a, that's usually a

46:05breaking news face from Clay.

46:07What have you got breaking news -wise?

46:08I will just say - Did some coach named Tex or Rex get fired and

46:12his $80 million contract is now only $40 million or something?

46:16You know, what's going on?

46:17No, it's just, every now and then, not every now and then, all the time,

46:24am I the only person who feels like the breaking news banner is just so

46:28wildly overused? Yeah. And they're at the point now where breaking news, it is 2

46:35.35 and 22, 23, 24 seconds.

46:39CNN just came back from commercial and they just said, breaking news.

46:42And I was like, oh, I'm looking up at the screen.

46:45I'm thinking, oh, maybe we're going to get some real news here.

46:48And then it's the same news that we've had for the last two and a

46:50half hours of the show.

46:51So, I was, you caught me in like expectation.

46:54It works because the breaking news banner, you're conditioned to be like, oh, wow, what's

46:59the news going to be?

47:00And then it's just, oh, the news that we've been talking about for two and

47:02a half hours is still the news that we've been talking about for two and

47:05a half hours. So, I'm just keeping everybody updated.

47:08So, no breaking news, actually.

47:10Do you feel a little bit, and I probably will regret, not immediately, but at

47:15some point in life, regret saying this, I feel like there are no worthy adversaries

47:19on the left in the media anymore.

47:21Certainly, the Democrat Party, the worship of Moloch, there's a lot of terrible stuff that

47:25leftists are doing. But I mean, from a pure media, we used to have to

47:29sit here, and it was like, we were the Alamo, and the Mexican military had

47:36us outnumbered in conservative media, and we were just fighting and fighting and hoping that,

47:41now, of course, it didn't work out that well for the guys in the Alamo

47:43in the end. But the point is, they made their stand.

47:47And now, there's not even a worthy adversary on the left.

47:51They're all so pathetic. CNN as a brand is now pathetic.

47:55You mentioned MSNBC before. They changed the name.

48:01It's MSNOW, which nobody calls them that still.

48:04Everyone's saying MSNBC. I think they changed it because the brand was just such a

48:09joke, and it was no longer any kind of a news entity.

48:13But there's just nobody left.

48:15Okay, I'm going to give you a shout -out on something, actually, here.

48:17I saw, I don't know who it was.

48:19There were some, like, most influential people in media thing, news media, news media.

48:25And Clay was, Clay was, like, maybe 40 names or something.

48:29Clay made the list. And I personally think Clay should have been higher.

48:33And I think I should have been on the list, but that's okay.

48:35Whatever. The point is, Clay made the list.

48:36You should have been on the list, too.

48:38But it's okay. But the point is, you made the list, and I actually think

48:41you should have been higher having made the list.

48:43But nonetheless, you're on the list.

48:44But, Clay, this is what was...

48:45So, by the way, golf clap.

48:46Well done. Thank you. And what was the basis for the...

48:50I mean, not basis, but the organization.

48:52Was it some online poll or something, right?

48:54So, two things here before you get to your point.

48:57I told my wife about this list, and she immediately started grilling me on the

49:02legitimacy of the list. You know, Laura, I was like...

49:06hey we were shout out by the way to my father -in -law 80th birthday

49:11party we were uh in michigan this past weekend my uh my father -in -law

49:16patrick smithbauer celebrating his 80th birthday was an awesome event friends family was really cool

49:21but we're on the airplane i see that news and i turned to laura and

49:25i'm like hey this is pretty cool i'm on this list and she's like well

49:28how reliable is that list well how did they manage to put together that it

49:34wasn't like oh that's great she immediately attacked the legitimacy of the list i have

49:39there are some people on the list that honestly it's it's like their clown show

49:42and it's preposterous but put that aside um clay was that there are some worthy

49:46uh you know all of the primetime fox news hosts were on the list and

49:51i think fox with their primetime lineup if they put you in it you're going

49:54to be somebody who has a big audience and so there were the usual suspects

49:57but this is what i thought was so interesting other than golf clap for clay

50:00well done um other than that all of the top leftists all of them were

50:08comedians yeah which i think says so much about where there was no jake tapper

50:15there was no anderson cooper there was no uh keith olberman i mean he's going

50:20to die in some kind of a facility there was no don lemon none of

50:24the news people in this assessment on the left made it the it was all

50:31jimmy kimmel colbert uh whoever you know fat like fallon or though all the people

50:38on the left oh bill maher but they were all comedians and i think it's

50:44just because i saw this as so indicative clay that list 10 years ago 100

50:49has anderson cooper has jake tapper has uh you know i mean think of like

50:57who are the you know it would have had whoever maddow would have been probably

51:00number one on the list she was like midway down the list my point is

51:05the left -wing quote news media apparatus has become such a joke that people who

51:13make jokes for a living are now more trusted than them on the left and

51:17that is where we are that's super interesting um and yes like rachel maddow was

51:23the only cnn or msnbc anchor on the list and the the george stefanopoulos wasn't

51:31on the list all these mainstream quote unquote not that that's really a thing we

51:36should be calling them but none of them made it um i wish to your

51:41point on foes people will sometimes attack me doesn't even happen that often by the

51:46way you and i used to get like people would come at you all the

51:49time now it's not even that common but i almost want to give them tips

51:53like they're not even attacking but this is the lawyer in me i can tell

51:57you the best way to attack an argument that you or i make because lawyers

52:02have to think about counter arguments and have to be intelligent enough to be able

52:05to make the other argument as well they're not even good enough to make the

52:10best arguments against us i feel like you need almost just to be like hey

52:14just tag team yourself and make the argument against the argument that you just made

52:19and i think one reason why we do effective arguments on this show is throwing

52:25a punch is easy right for any of you that have ever trained or been

52:30a boxer or ever thrown a punch which i would encourage at some point in

52:34time is actually a useful thing to do and then have someone occasionally throw a

52:38punch back at you is even more important because counter punches are often as many

52:44of you know far more devastating than a punch because when you open yourself up

52:50to try and throw a punch you are giving yourself your chin your face if

52:55you're not protecting yourself well the opportunity to be caught with a devastating counter punch

52:59and i think one thing that you have seen in the left is they got

53:04so used to being able to throw punches that their punches got flabby and weak

53:10because they never had to think about the counter punch and really all elon did

53:15when he bought twitter was open up people to counter punches and if you got

53:20so used to the idea imagine that you had such a rigged world that every

53:25punch you threw you fell like landed like a ton of cement and actually when

53:30you saw the real result of your punches you weren't really making contact but you're

53:35flailing and you're wide open and you just get devastatingly counter punched this is so

53:41true as well for you see this on college campuses even and and it then

53:45just makes its way all the way off into the the biggest media platforms college

53:49republicans like the ones who are active on campus and now it's uh you know

53:53people who are doing a lot of tp usa stuff and but the the the

53:57right on campuses is full of people who are used to making an argument know

54:04their side know the other side can stand the heat or eloquent i mean college

54:08republicans are yeah they get these kids sometimes they're 19 18 19 years old they

54:13show up on like the 8 p .m on fox talking about some campus issue

54:16you're like yeah kids kids ready for like white house uh deputy press secretary and

54:21then on the other side you have these libs like the head of the college

54:23progressives is always like shut them down and we all cry play the cowbell loud

54:31so we don't have to hear the scary things like it's because they're coddled and

54:35this has been true all the way across the media now for for the 15

54:39years that i've been doing this is that it used to be the left had

54:41so much platform dominance and so many advantages built in that they could get away

54:46with putting just really pathetic people into positions of of like debate and intellectual prominence

54:53people all get smoked now even the people that are supposed to be smart on

54:56left like ezra klein clown clown can't make real arguments always retreats into the same

55:01shell these people are not impressive at all and it's because they haven't had to

55:05be impressive yes and now now they're exposed now we all see it also i

55:11would say buck on your point which i think is such a good one about

55:14who the influencers are in the democrat party it also exposes the uh illegitimacy of

55:22late night comedy hosts because they are partisan right and this is the only argument

55:28that brendan carr at the fcc has been making it is no one out there

55:33would argue that uh fox news hosts aren't entitled to have their opinion shows in

55:39the evening and be able to be influential as they are we wouldn't argue against

55:43msnbc being able to do it and cnn but you understand what you're signing up

55:49for when you come to those programs to watch a perspective of opinion they have

55:54managed to take over late night television and make it effectively a democrat party platform

56:01argument propaganda piece and they're still arguing oh no no we're in the business of

56:08just being entertaining on comedy but this thing is showing you actually no it's pretty

56:14much the only democrat party influence you know clay one reason why i mean i

56:19can just speak about this from a personal perspective i left cnn in 2016 as

56:24a conservative political commentator who was uh who was on a contract they're being paid

56:27they actually wanted to extend me uh kaylee mckinney and i were like two of

56:32their sort of up -and -comers on the right and now obviously kaylee has her

56:35show on fox and was white house press secretary and all that but it was

56:37kaylee me there were there were a handful of us but i just got tired

56:41of the game and the game over there was you have a host who's a

56:44giant lib lunatic and then you have another guest who's a giant lib lunatic and

56:50the whole purpose of having on the conservative was to give you no time really

56:54to respond have the host talk over you to give it back to the other

56:58person i used to call the cnn ambush it was always good it was always

57:01lay out the segment so that we're smart we're smart we're democrats we're good and

57:06it's completely skewed and then it's go to the democrat to be like isn't it

57:09amazing how much better we are than republicans and then it's like hey republican freak

57:13show do you even want to weigh in on this you talk too much okay

57:17let's go back to democrat commercial over and over it was a joke dude all

57:22of these people uh uh don lemon jake tapper anderson cooper clown show nothing to

57:29add no intelligence if they can't have it rigged they can't play the game at

57:35all yeah and i read those guys social media feeds because i am curious to

57:40see what arguments they're going to be making and there's no depth of knowledge with

57:45it uh you were just mentioning uh i'll give them credit they're glorified menswear models

57:50dude honestly anderson and tapper it's like look at this windsor knot i've got shut

57:55your face you jerk well i think what has happened is not only has social

57:59media exposed their bias it's also exposed the lack of depth of their knowledge they're

58:05not actually working very hard to be informed on subjects well like this is like

58:11i remember when i was looking at schools and somebody was trying to sell me

58:14on what a great place princeton university was this is going way back okay but

58:18they were like do you know that we have in you know joyce carol oates

58:21the novelist is part of our creative writing program and at the time that was

58:26like oh oh she's such a brilliant brilliant novelist joyce carol oates oh joyce carol

58:32oates is social media she's a moron okay she doesn't know that a triceratops wasn't

58:37actually killed on the set of jurassic park one of the funniest things i've ever

58:40seen in my life and if you just see her recently is she still like

58:44like you know tweeting away on x this woman's a moron maybe she's good at

58:48like writing a creative story or two she knows nothing about the world for people

58:52who don't know over the weekend she said that the assassination was staged assassination attempt

58:58that killed multiple thank you for giving the specifics on this because it's important she

59:02claims this is the celebrated author joyce carol oates thinks that donald trump wasn't actually

59:07shot through the ear and that that was that that was like the moon landing

59:10all staged so she's a moron truly like an abject moron but and when i

59:16saw that she was smart when i saw that this weekend buck i went and

59:20i was like because she is a talented author right you can be steven king

59:24is a talented author you can be a good sculptor but your politics show that

59:28you don't understand anything about the world yes so this idea that you're expecting them

59:32to be elite political savants is not true joyce carol oates has me blocked on

59:37twitter i don't think i've ever interacted with that's amazing that's amazing i'm jealous i

59:42was like i was skeptical that she should could be so dumb that she had

59:46shared that tweet about hey it's a fake you know because there's fake accounts on

59:51twitter i'm like she's that was real prize winning all that was real she can't

59:55be this oh she was and then i was like well let me see what

59:57else she said recently she has me blocked i don't even know who i mean

1:00:01i know her because she's a Pulitzer Prize -winning author.

1:00:03I've never interacted with her.

1:00:05I've got to shout at her now so I can get blocked, too.

1:00:07I'm jealous. Go ahead. I don't even know.

1:00:09Yeah, so thanks, Joyce Carol Oates.

1:00:12Should just be Joyce Oates, by the way.

1:00:14I don't know. I think the third name connotes some sort of brilliance there.

1:00:19And I used to think she was a pretty talented author.

1:00:20Maybe she still is. But, man, really, I think indefensible to say, hey, it's a

1:00:26state. People killed there, you know.

1:00:28You think they just allowed a few people to be killed and Trump intentionally allowed

1:00:33his ear to be buzzed?

1:00:35Can you imagine letting someone just shoot a gun that was only designed to clip

1:00:39your ear from 150, 200 yards, whatever the heck it was?

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Daily Review with Clay and Buck - Apr 20 2026