DRS Special: Should Young People Fight In Iran? - Navy SEAL, A-10 Pilot & Green Beret Fireside Discussion
4/24/202651 mincomplete
0:00This is an iHeart Podcast, Guaranteed Human.
0:05One of the most difficult aspects facing all of us, especially those of us who've
0:12been overseas before, is how do we process what's taking place?
0:18How do we process, is this a justified action?
0:22Should we be there? Should we commit more assets, more money?
0:28But the most important thing is, should we commit the most valuable asset that we
0:33have, is that our young men and women, sending them over into harm's way for
0:40this particular mission set. And so, what I really wanted to do in this episode
0:48is to bring together people that I have a profound faith in their opinions and
0:56the way they're processing them.
0:57And more importantly, the courage that they have and how outspoken they are in this
1:04really complex and unfortunate situation that we find ourselves in as a country.
1:12But more importantly, what I really want this episode to be focused in is perhaps
1:21answering some question of young people.
1:23And in particular, young people that might be on the precipice of making that very
1:30unique or difficult decision to go and serve their country.
1:35And so, I'm overwhelmed at the opportunity to be here with Clay Martin and Dale
1:42Stark to ask that question itself.
1:46Like, what would you, what should we tell that 18 to 26 -year -old young
1:52person what to do right now?
1:56So, Dale, you know, one of the, I imagine that you're receiving a profound amount
2:04of questions, as I think we all typically do pretty regularly, of like, hey, what
2:10should I do? I really respect you.
2:13And are you, first off, I should ask, are you getting those questions presenting to
2:17them? And how are you answering them right now?
2:20Yeah, I'm getting a lot of messages on social media.
2:23I have for a while.
2:24And even more so since this kicked off and I ran.
2:30And, you know, people, a lot of people are enthusiastic to join or not sure
2:35if they should join and really just looking for someone's opinion, you know, that's been
2:40there, done that. And, you know, it's a difficult question.
2:45You know, you think about it in terms of, like, your own kids.
2:48Would you want them to serve?
2:50And then other, you know, young men and women who you don't necessarily know, maybe
2:55it feels a little bit different.
2:58And it's, yeah, it's really a difficult situation because on one hand, if I could,
3:08you know, if I was 20 years old right now, would I, and I could
3:13do what I was able to do and do it again, would I do it?
3:18A hundred percent. No matter what the circumstances are because I just wanted to fly
3:26jets, you know, I want to fly the A -10 and I want to test
3:31myself in combat. So I guess there's a couple of ways of looking at it,
3:37if you know what I mean.
3:38I think you're right. And that's the struggle that I'm in.
3:41And, you know, we've talked about it last night.
3:43We, you know, I'm, you know, would I change different?
3:47Now I came in, you know, pre 9 -11.
3:50And so it was really more indicative of, of like, do I have the character?
3:56Do I have the, um, the stamina, the drive to be a part of that
4:03culture? Right. Because I, I knew that that culture, that thing from when I was
4:09a kid, you know, whether it was fabricated through Hollywood or whatever it was, but
4:14certainly the books, right? You start reading the books, right?
4:17The Men with Green Faces or, you know, the, um, you know, what was the
4:22one? There was Quiet Waters or there was Dark Faces, Quiet Waters or one of
4:27those Vietnam books, even Rogue Warrior, which, you know, you read that and you're like,
4:31oh my God, like that's the coolest thing in the world.
4:36And so it doesn't matter what the, the battle, what, what reason for the battle
4:42space. It's just, I want to be in the battle space.
4:45So Clay, are you getting those questions right now?
4:49I mean, I bet, I bet you're just being bombarded right now with it.
4:53I have, I am now and actually have been getting this question for like six
4:56years, uh, back to the Biden administration, uh, which was also a difficult time to
5:02answer these kinds of questions.
5:03And it's a, it's a complex question.
5:05It's, it's one that I think that we, we all like think about a lot
5:09is you have these things.
5:10It's like you said about, you know, being a pre nine 11 guy and I
5:12was too back then. Like we proved ourselves by getting through like the cool school
5:17or whatever the thing is, or for you, you know, for you, it would have
5:20been go get your wings.
5:21Like, Oh, awesome. It's, it is a little bit different when you're playing for keeps
5:24them. uh and that but that's also a different level of test like uh that's
5:28that's like you know getting some like real respect we went to the you went
5:31to the war you did the thing um so it's it's a it's a very
5:36complex question you also have this thing that has been brought up multiple times on
5:41social media even recently of i was this way when i was 20 or 18
5:45or whatever i'll go fight anybody like awesome i'm gonna do we're gonna get our
5:49cibs today yeah whatever it didn't matter and you know i'm not a completely unthinking
5:54monster but you're not the same kind of mindset you're not thinking about you know
5:59strategic picture that you're not thinking about the moral picture things in a lot of
6:02ways it's also a lot easier for you to be manipulated at that age like
6:07you're this young dude and you just got into service you got your uniform everything's
6:12all cool you're not really thinking about you is this right or wrong you think
6:15about i'm going to you know do this job uh so it's it's extremely difficult
6:21but i think the uh the biggest thing we have to question right now is
6:24this is a hard thing because it feels kind of like we're we're bullshitting the
6:28youth in a way do i tell them like my my war stories of like
6:32when everybody died and everything was awful no i don't i tell them the fun
6:34ones you know we won that day hell those ones i prefer to remember from
6:38being totally honest right right it's more around like the the peers that i'll tell
6:42like the the dark shit and and i think that's kind of universal across the
6:46uh the boys like those things especially the dark stuff or the things when things
6:52really went wrong we don't even like to open up about that to somebody that's
6:55not part of the tribe it's it's different so in a weird way it's kind
6:59of like the books i bet if you went back and read the books now
7:01as like an older man you would see things a lot differently i think you're
7:05right as a young dude you're seeing all the cool shit they're writing the bad
7:08stuff in there too we're just kind of choosing to to get past that so
7:13uh i can say as a 45 year old man like i look back at
7:17the the iraq war and the the giwad is like that was a complete money
7:21wash is is how i see it that's you know my opinion was it worth
7:26it well you know i buried a lot of friends and that sort of you
7:28guys uh well i don't think they would think so maybe uh but it's a
7:33lot of you had this different perspective as a 45 year old man than it
7:37was a 20 year old man or a 30 year old man for that matter
7:40really i think the weirdest thing about this the spot that we're in right now
7:43is we just we went through the biden years where i'm like absolutely not do
7:47not join the military like i don't even know what they're doing anymore with the
7:50maduro raid which is maybe the greatest special operation in the world like it's amazing
7:55like oh my god we're back we're back and then we go to this iran
8:00war which i don't even know what the fuck we're doing if we're being totally
8:04honest so i think the world is kind of a weird spot right now i
8:07agree with it i mean you know i i used even even when i first
8:16started getting really approached probably like 2000 you know eight or nine where it had
8:24been going on and people are like well this is a reality like war is
8:27going to be consistent should i join and is it too late for me to
8:32participate is it and it's this sense of of what you might miss right oh
8:37yeah that's big right especially for guys of our age when it was like vietnam
8:41and that was like 30 years ago that's right you could catch one of the
8:44weekend wars i don't mean that as an asshole but yeah they were very short
8:47or you be in the gy that's right and it's a and it's a radically
8:53different thing it is you know and one of the things that dale you had
8:58talked about earlier was the reference point when you started to go it's the same
9:07thing year after year after year can you kind of expand on that and that
9:12because that was in while you were in and so that awakening and you've talked
9:17about it when we would talk about what would what joe kent was going through
9:20i certainly realized that you know in my first deployment my only combat deployment in
9:27the teams is like oh wow there's something different like there's something off about it
9:32can you can you just talk a little bit about that yeah you know when
9:35you go as a young guy you're 100 focused on just the mission you know
9:41you're not thinking about any of the politics you're not even noticing you know how
9:47big the bases build up and all the contracts or anything like that you're just
9:51there to you know fly jets support the guys on the ground and um and
9:58you know you get older you go back you go back again and i just
10:02remember um when i arrived in 2014 and bargram was just huge i mean it
10:10was like there's like coffee shop all these d facts like you're like there's structures
10:18everywhere there's all these tons of people there you're like what are you even doing
10:22here you know yeah um and you know it's like disneyland and then you start
10:28paying more attention to what's going on at the higher levels so you know you
10:33see you're actually watching the briefings now in congress and you see uh you know
10:38same uniform same four stars different name patch and that's it and they're saying the
10:44same thing year after year and uh what we're saying was like this hasn't been
10:49a 14 -year war at this point It's been one year, repeated 14 times, which
10:56continued on until it was over.
11:00And, you know, then you retire, get out, and you have more time to reflect
11:04and think about your service and what it meant and, you know, the people you
11:08lost and what they sacrificed for.
11:12And you start to have more of those existential questions.
11:17Okay, everybody. Sorry for the interruption.
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15:45Hoo -yah. Yeah, my thing is the last thing I would ever want to do
15:49is black pill some young person who's in a space where all they're seeking out
15:56is what we sought out, right?
15:59The improvement, the test, the growth, the challenge, right?
16:09And I think the challenge now is like, yeah, you can go get that.
16:14And if this thing kicks off, you're going to get your dose of it.
16:20But... But, but here's what you're also going to get.
16:25I remember, you know, probably there was a young boy.
16:29I was, I was at the agency.
16:32I was living in Asheville.
16:34I went to this farmer's market and, you know, he's, I was wearing, you know,
16:42a subdued trident hat or whatever.
16:44And he's like, are you, are you a Navy SEAL?
16:46And I was like, yeah, I was.
16:47He's like, wow, that's so cool.
16:49And I was like, yeah.
16:50And I was like, are you interested in service?
16:53Like, wanted to know. And he's like, absolutely.
16:56I've been thinking about it.
16:57Grew up on a farm, really just this great kid.
17:01And he's like, yeah, I think it's really what I want to do.
17:05I want to pursue this dream.
17:06And I was like, well, you know, I, I work with young men.
17:10Are you interested? And man, it got so, like, I went and met with his
17:13dad and his mom and like, it was like, hey, this, I'm not, this is
17:17what I do. This is how I do it.
17:19And that young man ended up becoming a Green Beret.
17:22And, and, you know, I think what I say the same things as I said
17:31to him now, if I was out in the community and someone came in or
17:36even, you know, said, hey, you know, I heard you on Sean Ryan show or
17:41I heard one of your shows and talking about how much you loved your service.
17:47Like, how does that conversation expand without losing how much we loved our unit, how
17:57much we loved our service, right?
18:00Even though we were in, even though we were in a space where like, but
18:04you still loved the guys you were with.
18:07So how do you, how do you tell, how do you give the amount, the
18:14right amount of information so they can make the real choice to go expose themselves
18:21to whatever the moral quandary is, to whatever the geopolitical quandary is.
18:28Because, but it's willing, it doesn't matter.
18:31Like you said, I don't give a fuck.
18:32I'll go fight terrorism wherever terrorism is.
18:34Right. I just want to go and be a part of it.
18:36Like, how do you wrap, how do you wrap your mind around that?
18:39Well, I think especially when you put it in like that context, some of it
18:44depends on who you are, as that young person.
18:47For me, it wouldn't, I wouldn't have fucking cared.
18:49Like, it didn't matter. I needed that regardless because I was probably never going to
18:52be okay without it. And it doesn't matter, wouldn't have mattered to me at 18
18:57if we just lost 500 ,000 guys and I ran.
18:59Like, okay, I'll be 501, let's do this.
19:03Because I really think that though, especially in this context or in this time frame
19:08that we live in now, we are in this unique position that we do have
19:14to question in a different way.
19:15Because I'm not even anti -war.
19:16Like, I'd be all about going to fight the cartels.
19:19I'd be all about going to, where the hell are they killing Krishat in Africa
19:22right now? Boko Haram? I'd be all about that.
19:25Like, when we really look at this current conflict, though, this one has given me
19:31pause in a way that nothing else we've ever done has.
19:33I don't know what we're doing.
19:35They didn't even, I feel like, try to sell it to us.
19:37They just started this unilateral war.
19:41Well, they did have the context of, and I don't mean, I'm sorry to interrupt
19:44you, but I think the sale was they can't have nuclear weapons.
19:49True. Right? And so it's like, oh, okay.
19:52And then they bombed the shit out of them last summer.
19:55We annihilated. That one was fine, too, by the way.
19:57That was cool. Yep. I was like, that's legit right there.
20:01But then it's now, it's like, we can't let them have nuclear weapons.
20:05We just did that. Yeah, like, didn't we just do that?
20:08So, like you said, rationalizing the message to get young people to, like, swarm to
20:16however many people it's going to, whatever this turns into.
20:20Right. Like, I mean, honestly, if you go back to the last summer of the
20:23bombing raid, that was just like Maduro to me.
20:25That was amazing. Like, I didn't even know we could do that.
20:27Like, that air thing, as little as we know being.
20:30Can you talk about that, how absolutely unbelievable that whole thing with all the different
20:37components, all the different air wings that were bombed?
20:39I mean, like, that's. Just incredible.
20:41Right? I mean, what I felt like when that raid kicked off, it was like
20:45everything we wished we could have done in the G -Watt.
20:49That's right. But they actually.
20:50Yes. Like, executed it gloves off.
20:53I mean, it felt like we were entering a new era.
20:56Right? Flawlessly, too. Like, amazing.
20:58Freaking hit them with the beam.
21:00Like, what was that all about?
21:01Right, yeah. Yeah, no, it was amazing.
21:04So, we saw these sequential things, you know, plus even the dog and pony of,
21:10I think I was harsh on Pete Hegseth in the beginning.
21:14And I had a friend was like, yeah, the dog and ponies are great.
21:18We got to get the numbers up.
21:19We got to get people back in serving.
21:21Yeah, go do the push -ups.
21:22I mean, I remember being in Pakistan and having Petraeus come out and he went
21:29for a run everywhere. And I was like, all right, which one of you old,
21:33tired motherfuckers can keep up with a six -and -a -half -minute mile?
21:36And I was like, I think I can do it just because I wanted to,
21:38like, be a part of, like, the bigger context of what that represented, right?
21:43The strength, the emerging strength, the prowess of.
21:48of what our leaders can accomplish when they set to task in a meaningful way
21:54but this one like you're saying clay is like what is the meaningful way you're
21:58going to put what 50 000 young kids in cargo island cart what is it
22:03car i can't even pronounce yeah yeah carg island carg island or whatever it is
22:08well again like it's come down to like like what are we doing so there's
22:12so much bad messaging or mixed messaging it really does feel like uh like we're
22:17kind of being not kind of being we're being manipulated into this war that's really
22:21if it's for our best interest it's happening at such a strategic level and 55
22:27d chest that i can't understand it all i really see is like my gas
22:30prices have gone up and uh it does beg the question and this is i
22:34mean this is an extremely difficult one uh you know is is this like uh
22:39the silent protest of like nobody signs up because what are you doing with uh
22:45with our goodwill and uh that's tough uh also if you're an 18 or 19
22:50year old kid and that's been your your dream or your goal or you have
22:53nothing else your whole life yeah for waiting four years for this administration to be
22:58out the next one to be in that's a long time and you don't know
23:02if the next one's going to be any better uh so it's a it's a
23:04really tough choice it's a really difficult thing to say yeah would you agree with
23:08that yeah and what's concerning to me is i felt like after vietnam you know
23:14i felt like they took that that post vietnam era very seriously they kind of
23:20came up with the vietnam you know the vietnam syndrome they called it the vietnam
23:23syndrome right it's a disease if you think yeah that's right and bush senior was
23:29like with desert storm we've finally destroyed the vietnam syndrome but yeah there was like
23:34i felt like there were very valid um lessons learned from vietnam that we were
23:41never going to repeat again like don't slowly escalate into a quagmire don't get involved
23:47before you have an exit strategy you know all the things like the colin powell
23:51doctrine before he you know went up off on yellow cake uranium in the un
23:56and changed his mind but totally changed his mind yeah big time but it was
24:01like it was like okay so like even as before i joined the military i
24:06love military history and i knew that was the lesson of vietnam that we would
24:09never repeat again yeah and then you see the g watt and it started with
24:15very valid honorable you know it was a just war okay so um you know
24:22we are getting retribution for 9 -11 yeah here's the enemy you know that did
24:30it and here's the government that's protecting them and we're just gonna go kick their
24:34ass right and that like and we basically had it won within the first few
24:40months right um and so uh we went from that to what we all experienced
24:46for the next 20 years yeah and then it's and then bring that to the
24:51fall of afghanistan you know the c -17s out of kabul just the worst gut
24:56punch to every veteran who served in those wars it broke me yeah yeah a
25:02lot of guys brother yeah and you you think about it and you're like oh
25:07we just basically did the same thing again and we strung it out for 20
25:13years because it was an all -volunteer force so you didn't have the protest and
25:17the political pressure but we still spent trillions of dollars and you know had all
25:22the the you know has our country gotten better in those years of that war
25:28like it'd be hard to say yes i'm gonna be totally honest with you man
25:32you just hit me in the uh the face with a two by four of
25:34something which is that and it's a thought i've had before but it hasn't like
25:39reoccurred me in a long time it does feel like in a lot of ways
25:42like uh like we were gone for 20 years and the country we came back
25:46to had badly changed like it just slid way down the hill and uh now
25:52we got you know the truck stuck in the mud that we just found and
25:55we're like huh so i mean i'm not saying that any one of us individually
26:02sitting out the g -watt and i don't know doing something else going to work
26:06at wall no yeah yeah but looking at the problems that were happening and trying
26:10to solve those would have stopped it from happening but it does kind of make
26:15you think like what if our entire generation been like nah uh we're building a
26:19lot of problems right here well that well that's that's where we're at and and
26:23and i know and you you you referenced the number earlier at dinner clay you
26:29said you think it's what it's like 70 percent of the guys are just die
26:37hard yeah let's go kick some ass let's go to war there's 30 percent of
26:41us that are like no no no yeah that would be roughly my take from
26:46like our our retired guy generation yeah yeah it seems like it just feels to
26:52me like a lot of our guys have not gotten to the questioning phase uh
26:55and part of that can be like you know hurt so bad from it's very
26:59hard to invest 20 years of your life and all this blood and sweat and
27:02tears and then see that like maybe that wasn't what we thought it was or
27:07maybe that was not worth it uh even when you see the fall of afghanistan
27:11the way it went it can be like i'm just not going to deal with
27:14that and i'm going to remember the good times and i'm gonna you know put
27:18on my funny hat and face outboard and you know be that guy still the
27:23blind yes the blind support yes right yeah and i i do see that as
27:28about 70 30 yeah do you see and do you see i mean obviously you
27:34know i i always i always try and i got an idea there's from a
27:39couple dudes that never wanted to be heroes but they were heroes and i call
27:44it the reluctant hero yeah right and so you like you said your drive was
27:48to reach this pinnacle of performance you wanted to fly a10s to support the guys
27:55on the ground and to have an impact in that moment but now as as
28:00you have a family you know in a voice too like back then like i'm
28:07just a nug right i'm just a nug like even when i was it was
28:12actually funny i felt like i was maybe more important in the teams than i
28:16was when i was at the agency i was lower right and so it's like
28:20you're really just shut up contract or like fuck off you know get out of
28:24here type thing but it's like no man i have a voice and i didn't
28:30speak up then because the machine was so ominous it was so whatever but like
28:36now i can speak up but i don't want to speak up and and and
28:40bash whoever is making the decisions to do this dumb shit and there's plenty arguing
28:47about that i mean the attacks on people who are anti -war and who they're
28:52why they're doing i mean that's a whole nother thing but it's like man i
28:55i'm in this conflict i want young men to want to go be pilots to
29:02go or women to go be pilots to go into the teams or support the
29:08teams or whatever it is i want that i i it's the greatest gift i
29:12was ever given but fuck i don't want them to do it in iran we
29:16want to see incredible military strengths we we know that it's required we know it
29:21more than anybody else you have to fucking have it but i do not wish
29:24to see it squandered and uh that that's the tough thing we're at like uh
29:29because right now i even if it's not iran this week it could be six
29:34months from now doing some other dumb shit just the way this this conflict has
29:39unfolded makes me feel like squandering is very much on the menu and it's the
29:43main course actually i agree and uh i i don't wish to see our ships
29:47wasted doing defending taiwan if we can't uh the amount of aircraft we've lost in
29:54the last three weeks however they got like i don't care if they've blown up
29:57at the fucking runway i think is more of a fixed wing the entire war
30:00on terror put together am i right it's gotta be i mean they just lost
30:04an awax there's 16 of them now there's 15 that makes you want to throw
30:08up it's not even that it's the thing and it's the money it's like i
30:15feel like they are being they're being spent for no objective and that that offends
30:19me well and so we talked about the lessons learned from vietnam yeah the i
30:26thought we were going to have some lessons learned from the giwa but it feels
30:30like the timeline is accelerating i agree and it's like from afghanistan to iran was
30:36pretty damn quick and remember don't forget ukraine oh they wanted us to commit to
30:43ukraine right and we did we essentially committed what all of our intel support all
30:49of our munitions all of all this exhaustive support right through nato or through whatever
30:57you want to describe it and now it's like that's not enough now we we're
31:04not even going to be we're not going to have our thirst quench until we
31:09have you know those boots on the ground i want yeah i want to know
31:15what the objectives are and how we're going to achieve them if they were to
31:19come out tomorrow you know and whether it's the president or pete or whoever it
31:25is and said all right to all you young people out there this is our
31:30objective we are going to initiate a a six -month campaign we're going to hold
31:37the city center of tehran we're going to uh uh re -establish uh uh um
31:47the rightful heirs of the persian empire whatever the fuck it is right we call
31:51him the prince of persia the prince yeah the prince of persia we're gonna we're
31:55gonna allow the prince of persia to come back miraculously and then we're leaving and
32:01that's it would would that be sufficient or would you because now what you know
32:05is like they're gonna say anything they want to say so so i want those
32:09objectives to also be achievable yeah at a reasonable cost that the that you know
32:15that we're going to actually gain something from this that's worth worth the cost yeah
32:21and uh you know one thing i learned in the military is that we're really
32:25good at breaking things and killing people and we're not so good at making the
32:32political changes that we set out to do you know we spent 20 years to
32:39replace the taliban with the taliban but now they're much better on them And we
32:45invaded Iraq to get rid of a despotic leader to just replace him with an
32:52Iranian proxy leader, right? The irony in this is like, and I watch the arguments
32:59that you guys get in or not.
33:00You're much more controlled than you are, Clay, online, which is awesome.
33:05But like I watched the responses and like you hear this list of responses.
33:12Well, they've been a thorn in our side since the Islamic Revolution, since 79 when
33:19the entire, they were responsible for killing more American troops than any other state sponsor.
33:26They're the global, the largest global.
33:28So they have this list, which, you know, is in some context an arguable list.
33:35Like you can say, all right, there's legitimacy to the Beirut, to all those Marines,
33:40like vengeance for those families.
33:42I'm sure, you know, in some capacity for some of them might feel good.
33:46Certainly our brothers that got fucked up in Iraq, you know, from all the technology
33:53that the Quds Force was integrating.
33:54And, you know, whether it's in Syria too or wherever, and even in Israel, like
34:00the impact from Iranian influencer money from poor civilian Israelis that felt the wrath of
34:08their fundamentalist ideas, I guess would be the easiest way or whatever you want to
34:16say. But it's like, now you're talking about another generation.
34:22And I'm just not comfortable.
34:26Because again, they're going to do what they do.
34:28And the only thing I can do with the voice that I have based on
34:32my experience is look at that 20 some odd kid in the face and say,
34:38hey, listen, you're going to go receive the greatest thing you'll ever receive in your
34:45life, which is indicative of that focus and that drive.
34:49And what you call being a part of being a part of the gang or
34:52the tribe, like that sense of camaraderie.
34:55And it's not the mission, but it's the mission of each other.
34:59Like you can't find that any other fucking money.
35:03I mean, arguably people want to say, well, in law enforcement or at the Bureau
35:07or wherever. But man, it's something really unique about the military that gives it that.
35:13And so now I'm going to say, well, you'll go get that and you're going
35:17to be forged in the fire at a high degree.
35:20But here's the expectation I want you to have.
35:24You're going to go and you're going to do seven deployments.
35:29You're going to break your endocrine system is going to be absolutely destroyed.
35:34You're going to have all your vertebrae are going to be compressed, right?
35:39Your chronic pain, you're going to have like TBIs from blast wave exposure, not even
35:49in the battlefield, but from just from training itself.
35:53And yeah, you're going to have this sense of accomplishment.
35:57But man, the cost, not only your own personal cost, but you're also going to
36:02have a lot of dead friends.
36:04Is that what you say to kids now?
36:06I mean, I think it was a totally fair assessment.
36:09I mean, I would I would caveat that at the end with, you know, you
36:13always have a choice. All right.
36:16I chose to go to the GY with that message that was sold to me
36:19and I don't regret it.
36:21Did they sell me a line of bullshit?
36:22Yeah, they did. Even now, knowing that I regret it and I had an awesome
36:27time. But I did pay for it.
36:31You always have the choice of looking at you.
36:34I think that's just where you have to be is you have to look at
36:37what's going on at that moment and say, hey, is this is this right or
36:41wrong? You always have that choice for me, for my sons or for me, honestly,
36:47looking if I could take my my this brain now, my 45 year old brain
36:52and implant it in 18 year old clay's new body.
36:54And we looked at Iran and be like, no, dog, like, I don't I don't
36:58know what we're doing here.
37:00It's always a personal choice.
37:04Question for you guys. So we're looking at watching this unfold.
37:07Right. So we've seen the air campaign, some jets shot down.
37:12So the CSR that picked those guys up, which was pretty incredible to me, like
37:19a ground assault on Iran is insane.
37:22Like, do you guys think that is on the menu?
37:25Like, is that I mean, are they considering that?
37:27I 100 percent know they're considering it for sure.
37:31I mean, that's their I mean, you don't mobilize in the way they're mobilizing if
37:36it's not on the table.
37:37And whether it's just the president, which which as a president in these circumstances, you
37:45want to have that ability to posture with that level force.
37:49And certainly last summer in Venezuela gives him and then killing Soleimani in his first
37:54term. It's like he's the guy who can posture better than anybody I've ever seen.
37:59You know, and I served under Clinton.
38:01I served under Bush. I served under Obama.
38:04So like out of all of them, man, when DJT fucking starts saying shit, it's
38:09like, stand up. back. And so like, there's this era of like, yeah.
38:14And then I'm like, no, yeah, no.
38:18And I feel like I'm on this kind of bizarre merry -go -round of maybe
38:24if it's naive, but I guess, I don't know, there's this idealism that is representative
38:32in the service, right? Like there's something righteous about it.
38:38Regardless if the war is not righteous, there's righteous in the service.
38:42And so I just, I don't know if a ground, can we win it if
38:48we commit a million troops?
38:51Yeah. With our capabilities and what we see and what, but are we going to,
38:57at what level are we going to suffer?
38:59And then the greater context, how does it affect our children and what the world
39:06looks like now after quantifiably, it's pretty obvious that we're not going to allow any
39:15other person that doesn't have nuclear weapons, you know, any, what, any sovereign, any, it
39:26is, it's in sovereignty, right?
39:27It's in, it's in the, their own ability to govern in their own way and
39:31then the way they want, we're, we're, that's always in question now, especially if we
39:37dedicate, you know, ground troops.
39:39I mean, can we do it?
39:40Yeah. I mean, but what are the casualties going to look?
39:44Certainly it's going to be, if Ukraine is any example of modern warfare and you,
39:49I've talked about this and I'm, I know with your experience in, in unmanned and
39:56drone operations, we haven't seen this before.
40:01And so the casualty count could be astronomical.
40:03Is that your assessment? Yeah.
40:05I mean, if you pay attention to the war in Ukraine, I mean, there's been,
40:09I would say, a revolution in military technology, you know, something that just rapidly changes
40:16the battlefield, makes things, you know, antiquated that were valid.
40:21It's almost like world war one, the intensity of that, right?
40:24Yeah. You know, so, uh, just the, the drone warfare, they, they're cheap, they can
40:31produce them in mass, you know, and you look at how much it costs us
40:35for our air defense systems.
40:37You know, you take like the THAAD and Patriots and the intercept rates, they're like,
40:42say a million bucks a pop and they can swarm a bunch of $20 ,000
40:46drones. And we need, I don't know, whatever, three to one, four to one million
40:52bucks a pop, 20 ,000.
40:54It's unsustainable. And what if they're, um, you know, planning to dig in?
41:00I mean, it's Persia and drag this thing out for 10 years.
41:04Yeah. Like you say, you say it's Persia.
41:07Like, and then for all of you don't understand what that means, just pick up
41:12a fucking history book, man.
41:14Like it's Persia. Like this is not, we're not in the caves and we're in
41:19Afghanistan with the fucking. The plains of Iraq where I have, you know, unprecedented air
41:24superiority in tanks and nobody else has shit.
41:27That's right. It's a totally different thing.
41:28It's a different thing. I think they have like average IQ above a hundred, you
41:33know, versus like 65. On a good day, on a good day.
41:38Yeah. Yeah. I'll never forget when I was, I was there, I was in, in
41:42Lash and, and, uh, I had the, the, the static guys come up to me
41:49cause I was a medic and they're like, Hey man, can you come look at
41:52some of the guards? There's something going around, you know, with the guards and they're
41:56all sick. And I was like, yeah, man, sure.
41:58And I go in and they all have gonorrhea on their faces.
42:02Right. And I'm like, okay, they're spreading sexually transmitted diseases.
42:08Like that, I can't control that man.
42:12And if, if that's the standard, right.
42:14If we get attacked, we're fucked.
42:16Right. Like that's, that's who we're relying on.
42:19That's not the case. This is not the same thing.
42:22You know, it's, it's a different level of, I mean, it's the oldest continuous civilization
42:28and on the planet. Other, I mean, you can argue Chinese, certain aspects of China
42:33are that continuous, but like, who's going to defeat them?
42:36And is it us? Is it now?
42:39Is it the time for it?
42:40So I don't, I don't think there's the appetite and with the American people.
42:45I mean, the youth ask, think about the youth.
42:48Do you believe that with the young people, right?
42:50With young people, the young people.
42:51I'm like sounding like I'm a grudging, a grudging.
42:53You old fucker, shut up.
42:55Nobody's listening to you anyways.
42:56I think you're going to go back to the question of, are we going to,
42:59and I'll be totally honest with you.
43:00I was surprised by this air campaign despite all the buildup and despite all the
43:05time, because again, DJT posture is like nobody else.
43:08And after we struck them last summer and then they just lobbed a couple of
43:12missiles at open fields, I was kind of shocked that they let it go with
43:15that. I was like, all right.
43:17And then when a couple of months passed and they, they hadn't hit anything else.
43:21I'm like, Ooh, we walked out, went off.
43:24That was huge. So I, I didn't really think we would do the air thing.
43:30Like again, also what are we trying to accomplish?
43:32Like if we already took out the new program, like what are we doing?
43:35Yeah. And then we did and we, we came with it with.
43:38air campaign so i don't think the uh the ground invasion is off the is
43:42off the table i mean i don't think it's 100 certain but i don't think
43:46it's off the table at all he's definitely battling it i mean you'd have to
43:50battle it even even if even if he's whatever his legacy like whatever he's going
43:58to imagine himself as and you hear him say it i'm the most con you
44:03know consequential president of the modern time and he believes that and for the people
44:09i know that know him like when he speaks like he's it's there's no filter
44:14it's like that's what he believes so it's not like he's being political or any
44:19certainly the gamesmanship of the crazy post one day and the other post the next
44:23day obviously that's to keep people off off off balance in the negotiation so to
44:28speak but like to commit to this level and to i don't think he doesn't
44:36take the lives of potentially let's call it a hundred thousand american or 40 even
44:43if it's 7400 and i say that like no disrespect to any of my friends
44:49who are in their death and their families but even if it's that it's still
44:53consequential right it's still american's life for what objective well the 13 we've lost already
44:59is consequential that's right yeah all right so yeah i'm sorry go ahead yeah and
45:04i didn't mean to cut you off yeah just the the messaging of it is
45:08it's bothering me because um the red line has been nuclear weapons right um but
45:16if you actually pay attention to this stuff they haven't had a nuclear weapons program
45:21since 2003 they got rid of it you know when we kicked the doors down
45:26in iraq and then um so then we started talking about enrichment levels you know
45:35and so then we took out fordo you know took out their enrichment sites and
45:39so if it's like the what i keep hearing on the news is like when
45:44you just want to see what their what their messaging it's like well iran can't
45:48have nuclear weapons well like i like our own intelligence community has not assessed that
45:56they even have a nuclear weapons program so like is the objective regime change is
46:03that what we're saying now like um if we're gonna be asked to sacrifice blood
46:10and treasure to a degree that we probably haven't seen in our lifetimes i think
46:15the american people are deserved a real answer is to to you know is it
46:21retribution well for iraq okay well is getting more people killed going to are we
46:29just going to keep going down that road you know well what about the fact
46:33that we put like an al -qaeda isis guy in charge of syria what about
46:37retribution for him like we we seem to not have a problem with it when
46:42we um don't want to um so i i just i don't have a logical
46:48explanation of to um as to why we need to do this why containment um
46:55can't work as it was before the bomb started dropping you know is the objective
47:00to open the strait of hormuz well that was open before the war like stop
47:06using logic on me dale stop using logic on me yeah it's just like you
47:12know it's it's i think uh you know not to to bash anyone of any
47:17particular age but i think sometimes the older generations just think it's like something they
47:22watch on the news and they want their team to win like that's right ball
47:26game that's right they enjoy seeing the bombs go off and it's like no those
47:30are real people they're civilians that are just living in absolute hell if we do
47:37collapse the government are we going to be able to establish control or is it
47:42going to be warlords fighting for territory and a massive refugee crisis into europe again
47:49like you know having gone through this like five minutes ago i think we deserve
47:56an answer on on a lot of this stuff before it escalates i think if
48:05you're watching this and you're a young person on the fence of deciding whether or
48:10not to go in and serve your country um none of what we're saying is
48:18like don't go serve go serve if you want to and go serve and be
48:23a part and feel the things that we have all expressed in a very meaningful
48:27way and i hope you you go and you watch the profiles of these two
48:31incredible men um to get a deeper context of what the pride in their service
48:37look like but what i think what what dale just so eloquently put is you
48:43deserve to know what you're going to be potentially sacrificing your life for and i
48:52think that's all we're suggesting for you we're not saying be anti -war and fight
48:58the system or be you know anti -america in any way shape or form all
49:03we're saying is that your life is incredibly you you you I'll leave that.
49:06valuable. The rest of your life is incredibly valuable.
49:10And if you're going to choose to serve in these amazing ways, just be clear
49:16in what you're potentially getting into and what potentially will happen.
49:22Gentlemen, thank you so much for your time and for your honesty, most importantly.
49:28I think you're both really positive influences out there in a world where there's a
49:35lot of people that just want to see the explosions go off.
49:38So I appreciate you very much.
49:40And thanks for doing this.
49:41Yeah. And I just want to finish with one more thing is that bringing it
49:47back to our audience, who we're talking to here, not to get so in the
49:53weeds on the politics of it, which can be very blackpilling.
50:00If I were 20 years old today, I think that's how I usually revert back
50:05to answering that question. It's like, I go, I can't tell you what to do,
50:10but if I were 20 and I was where I was when I was 20,
50:18would I do it again today in 2026?
50:22I would. Yeah, me too.
50:24Would you? Yeah, I would.
50:27From where I was, I would do it again.
50:29I guess I'll close with, and again, thanks for having us.
50:32It's an honor to be able to be part of these discussions and it helps
50:37people make a decision that's very difficult to make.
50:40I would close with, you know, the fights that you're in, it's always your moral
50:45choice to be there. And that's the question you have to ask yourself.
50:49What I'm going to do, is this morally correct?
50:52That answers everything. Amen. Thanks, brothers.
50:55Appreciate it. Thank you. Yeah, awesome.