The Truth with Lisa Boothe: ICE, CBP Funding Fight & Trump’s Mass Deportation Plan
2/17/202627 mincomplete
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0:33T's and C's apply. Welcome to The Truth with Lisa Booth, where we get to
0:36the heart of the issues that matter to you.
0:38Today, we're tackling the border crisis head -on, the political games, the funding fights, voter
0:43integrity battles, and how illegal immigration fuels Democrat power.
0:48We've got R .J. Howellman, president of the National Immigration Center for Enforcement, also Mike
0:53Howell, who's on the board of that, and he is also the head of the
0:56Oversight Project. We're going to dive into all of it.
0:59Republicans push for standalone DHS funding, why they did that.
1:03Did they hand Democrats leverage on that?
1:05Also, even though the one big, beautiful bill does fund ICE and Border Patrol, they
1:10don't have unlimited funds. So we're going to talk about why it is important that
1:14they also receive funding in this funding fight as well.
1:18We'll discuss the SAVE Act and so much more.
1:20So stay tuned for R .J.
1:22Howellman and Mike Howell. Well, R .J., Mike, it's great to have you both on
1:33and looking forward to working with you guys on with NICE.
1:36So obviously a big task in front of us on all this issues, a lot
1:41going on right now. I wanted to start with the funding fight and this shutdown
1:47with DHS funding. R .J., let's start with you.
1:51Why did Republicans choose to move DHS funding as a standalone measure rather than include
1:57it in the larger omnibus?
1:59Yeah, no, again, you know, Republicans, it's finally, I mean, again, taking a stand when
2:07it comes to these spending bills.
2:09I mean, we've seen, you know, DHS has been caught almost on, you know, continuing
2:13resolution autopilot for, I mean, countless fiscal years where, you know, Dems kind of get
2:18a victory every time of keeping, you know, the money locked at a certain level.
2:22And, you know, what kind of, you know, troubled, I think, us, and I'm not
2:27entirely speaking for Mike, but I'm sure he agrees here too, is what Republicans tried
2:32to do out the gate before reconciliation happened.
2:35The one big, beautiful bill that gave over, you know, $100 billion to ICE and
2:39CBP to secure the border and do mass deportations.
2:42You know, ICE was chugging along on, you know, money that had dried up, basically,
2:47a low funding level on doing continuing resolutions of keeping it at current levels and
2:52having to shuffle money around, okay?
2:53But then, obviously, in July, President Trump signed, you know, a bill that gave about
2:58100, I think it's about $170 or so billion to both ICE and CBP, build
3:03the wall and detain and deport en masse, just like the American people intended.
3:07But, you know, Democrats have kind of seen that they're at a spot right now
3:11where they are kind of using what has happened up in Minneapolis and something that
3:16they view as a political football to run with, you know, two kind of events
3:22that, you know, as they're kind of being, you know, like seen through through the
3:26finish line in terms of getting to the bottom of what happened and if any
3:29justice, you know, needs to be served.
3:31But when they're putting ICE and CBP up there as individual funding streams, okay, that
3:37has come to an agreement, do concessions on, it's going to be something that will
3:41set a dangerous precedent down the line.
3:43So in this situation, we're kind of in right now, all right, if you're looking
3:46at it, the Democrats want, again, to isolate CBP and ICE away from the other
3:52functions of DHS. Now, again, DHS was stood up very quickly after 9 -11.
3:57It's a big umbrella agency.
3:59You know, you almost got like a branch of the military essentially in the Coast
4:03Guard or, you know, what Christy Noam uses to get her jets through.
4:06But then you have obviously FEMA and TSA, other things like that.
4:10You know, those are all kind of shut down right now.
4:12But you've got to keep in mind, CBP and ICE, they may have a lot
4:16of money that they got through that reconciliation package, but that money's now going to
4:20be drained. It isn't for operational or administrative purposes.
4:24That money's not intended to pay the agents or whatever.
4:26So if Democrats get to a point where the little Republicans down a path, okay,
4:31where they're able to fund every agency under the DHS umbrella, accept ICE and CBP,
4:37they'll just run the darn clock out and then take all that money that was
4:42intended to supplement and get vast deportation and border security across the finish line and
4:47actually entrench it in the future, that'll never kind of happen.
4:50So what happens is happening?
4:52They have to keep their foot on the ground and not give in here.
4:56Democrats are trying all they can and we'll see what happens.
4:59Mike, you know, so I mean, was that the strategy for the left then to
5:03isolate the CBP and ICE funding?
5:07You know, we've also seen them make demands for things like having to wear like
5:11name IDs and judicial warrants and I mean, they've already asked for the, well, they
5:17asked for the body cam, body cams, but then that was in the one big
5:20beautiful bill and then they said they didn't want, you know, like they've gone.
5:23And I'll see you next time.
5:23back and forth about that.
5:25But I guess what what do you think they will end up accomplishing from this?
5:31Like, what are your fears?
5:33And, you know, my concerns are that Republicans have handed them some leverage with spinning
5:37off the DHS funding and dealing with it separately.
5:40Yeah, that's absolutely right. And stipulating everything RJ just said, let me pick up to
5:45the point I think you're getting at, which I absolutely agree with.
5:48It's an attack from both the left and the quote unquote rights.
5:51The Democrats don't want ICE to exist, nor CBP.
5:55OK, that's that's obvious. We're back to defund the police, abolish ICE.
5:59They'll call it something different.
6:00But but that's what it is.
6:01From the Republican perspective, they aren't comfortable with the scope of ICE's mission at all.
6:07They want to walk back the aperture of enforcement to only violent criminals.
6:12They have bought the messaging of the Democrats have been affected by it.
6:16And so when leader Thune decided to set up this path due to far left
6:22pressure and, quote unquote, moderate Republican pressure, they put out ICE and CBP on a
6:28on a limb here and at the expense of obviously all the other agencies which
6:31are going to suffer in this process.
6:33But it is a really genius tool, evil genius, that is, by the Democrats, knowing
6:39that they have a decent number of Republican senators who are fundamentally on their side
6:44and will make concessions to water down immigration enforcement.
6:49They don't have the guts to change the laws and to make legal or illegal
6:53presidents ultimately legal. But they want to limit the amount of people who can be
6:58deported. And so that's what Thune is doing.
7:01So it presents to the public as a Democrat versus Republican kind of fight.
7:04But it's really pro wrestling kayfabe.
7:07A lot of Republicans are joining Democrats to hurt ICE.
7:10Yeah. And at least let me add something to that real quick, though, too.
7:14You know, one of our biggest fears here, and now it's really coming to life,
7:18is, listen, with I'll give you ICE as an example.
7:20And, you know, you know, 70, 80 billion or so, the money that they get
7:25for fiscal year 29. So essentially through Trump's term of supplemental money, OK, that can
7:30be used for deportations, new ICE agents and all that.
7:34If we were always kind of telling Republicans, when all was kind of rosy on
7:38appropriations, when we're doing regular funding bills through the fiscal year, we're saying, don't you
7:43dare say, hey, we can give DHS less money because we have all this money
7:48in the bank. No, that sets a baseline going forward.
7:52When you're at a funding level and approves, that becomes so hard to change.
7:56As I was saying, we're at that, you know, continuing level at DHS dating early
8:00back in the Biden administration.
8:02So if we end up at a lower level or draining money from that supplemental
8:06funding pool, that will stick.
8:08Republicans can't say, well, we don't need to do X amount of detention beds.
8:12We can just get the money from there.
8:13Well, when Trump leaves office, if a Democrat happens to win, then you're going to
8:16have a low level of detention beds.
8:18You can't pay all the ICE agents you hired.
8:20You got to sell the airplanes and all that.
8:22And the Democrats will turn all your warehouse detention facilities into three -step turnstiles.
8:28You know, Mike, one thing I worry about, you know, look, a lot of politics,
8:33as we all know, having, you know, you guys are currently working in D .C.
8:37politics. I've done it in the past.
8:39Well, I guess I kind of am now anyways.
8:41But point being is that, you know, a lot of politics, it's a PR fight,
8:45right? And we see that the left and the media, they smell the blood in
8:50the water. When it comes to DHS, we're seeing all these hit pieces, all these
8:54negative news articles. You know, Republicans are getting cold feet on mass deportations.
9:01And there's this hit piece in Politico, Mike, talking about how that use of force
9:08incidents have surged in 2025 compared to 2024.
9:12But we're also seeing, like, attacks on ICE agents have increased exponentially.
9:18And, you know, Kristi Noem has told me previously when I was co -hosting Fox
9:22insurance that we've got our Customs and Border Patrol agents have bounties on their heads.
9:27So, of course, use of force is going to increase when you've got, like, you
9:32know, assaults on federal law enforcement have increased, like, you know, tenfold or however much
9:37it is. Yeah, that's absolutely right.
9:40I mean, throw the stat book out the window.
9:42It's like comparing three -point NBA to, like, the 1930s, right?
9:47Like, there's a whole new world out there.
9:48ICE is under attack, you know, literally and figuratively.
9:53Literally, obviously, the fans are being flamed by politicians and media in Washington, D .C.,
9:58who have basically said it's okay.
10:00Not only is it okay, but it's your civic duty and you're a racist if
10:03you do not participate in the obstruction and the mob attacks against ICE.
10:08And so, of course, there are increases in use of force when you tell both
10:12an illegal population and then their vigilante defenders that these people are literal Nazis.
10:17And so, it's through the roof.
10:18Just put it in perspective.
10:19I mean, can you compare this in any way that we can get statistical fidelity
10:23to January 6th? The attacks on ICE blow out of the water, whatever happened that
10:28day with Capitol Police. Not to mention, no one on the right after that, quote
10:32-unquote, if you want to call January 6th, whatever you want to call it, was
10:35trying to dox Capitol Police officers and get them killed after the fact.
10:39And so, I think we need to, you know, as a country, put this way
10:42more into perspective that we haven't seen this type of vigilante mob -style justice and
10:48secessionist tactics at this scale.
10:51really, since the Civil War.
10:52And I mean, I say that not to say it is like that, but there's
10:56nothing that rivals it in terms of just the scale of nationwide spread and the
11:02organizing and the politics and the media.
11:05That's where Democrats are heading.
11:07They basically want to have two rules of law out there, one for the illegals
11:11and the other, you know, for everybody else who obeys the laws.
11:14Yeah, I mean, they love to riot when they don't have power is basically how
11:18it goes. You know, RJ, big concern with the midterms.
11:22You know, historically, the party in charge loses the House.
11:26So, you know, who knows if that ends up happening?
11:29And then if so, what do those numbers look like?
11:31But how challenging will it be for President Trump to follow through on mass deportations
11:36if Republicans lose the House and or Senate?
11:39Gosh, I mean, again, the way the way, you know, immigration has taken shape, I
11:45mean, it's essentially, you know, if you go back to Obama, then the Trump, and
11:49then obviously, then the Biden and then back to Trump.
11:51I mean, you know, we were screaming from the rooftops.
11:54It's something I remember I said, I was reading a quote that I was looking
11:57back of something I said when I was in Biden's transition.
11:59And it's like, you know, Biden is just going to rescind all these memos and
12:03like a crisis awaits. Well, like what happens?
12:05That's what they did. And the crisis came in to the scale of, you know,
12:0810 million or so illegal aliens, and we reaped it every day.
12:11Well, on day one, President Trump was able to end it at the border.
12:14But interior enforcement is a different space, okay?
12:17It's one area where Republicans and the coastal elites or the GOP establishment types, they
12:23love it to say it when they're on the campaign trail, but they oppose it
12:27for a reason that they don't always like to say, and that's because they like
12:30cheap foreign labor. And I mean, we're seeing that they're pointing now to like, oh,
12:34look what happened in Minneapolis.
12:36Terrible, terrible, inhumane, inhumane. As they're sitting there quietly going to the White House and
12:40everything, you know, Derry's saying, oh, man, if we lose our illegal aliens or something,
12:45we'll all starve and die.
12:46Even though some people are lactose intolerant, I don't think that would happen.
12:49But you've got all these, the construction people, everything, saying in South Texas, where I
12:54split my time between Fort Worth and Washington, and they're straight up saying, South Texas,
12:59oh, you're going to lose all the Republicans.
13:00Well, first, all the Hispanics in South Texas that you're attributing, you know, the losses
13:06to, you're referring to illegal aliens that can't vote, okay?
13:11A lot of Republicans, again, forget that some of the most hardliners on immigration, okay,
13:16and I know this will grow up in Southern California and Oxnard, Camarillo, where the
13:20big ag raids were. Some of the most hardline people are second and third generation
13:24Mexicans, okay? They're way more hardline than a lot of people in Washington in our
13:29party. So it's like we're gravitating back towards, I think it's like a, you know,
13:33we're in that GOP 2012 autopsy mode after Romney lost.
13:38When, because Romney lost, we have to do an amnesty.
13:40That's the only solution. We're seeing that like, like creed the events where they're saying,
13:45you got to tone down any mass deportation stuff or we'll lose.
13:49Well, the losing, I think, is inevitable because the situation we're being put in, but
13:53you can either make it worse or try to mitigate it.
13:55But regardless, these people are going to attribute it to being too hardline an immigration.
13:59And we will not let that happen.
14:01And we are giving an exit ramp for a very dangerous situation that's taken place.
14:06You got to do mass deportation.
14:08You got to go after these unscrupulous employers.
14:10When you have so many young kids who voted for President Trump in mass and
14:14they're sitting there, what the hell?
14:15I can't get a job.
14:16I can't do anything. Well, you have a lot of these employers that just say,
14:19oh, woe is me because they refuse to wage wages and hire Americans.
14:24We've got to take a quick commercial break.
14:26More with RJ and Mike on the other side.
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14:58T's and C's apply. President Trump won 2016 by saying Mexico wasn't sending their best
15:05and they were sending rapists and murderers, which he got, you know, skewered over, but
15:09he was right. And then he won in 2024 on mass deportation.
15:13So it's like he's now won two and the popular vote.
15:16You know, two elections where immigration, at least in 2024, was the second most important
15:21issue. And he won all seven swing states and the popular vote.
15:24You know, Mike, I want to get with you on this because, you know, you
15:27also lead the Heritage Foundation's investigative and oversight arm.
15:32You know, Tom Cotton said about the SAVE Act that basically the reason the Democrats
15:37oppose it so that it would make it easier to commit voter fraud.
15:40What I worry about if you don't include some sort of form of citizenship when
15:44going to vote is obviously President Biden allowed this like invasion to happen at the
15:50southern border. Millions of new illegal aliens into the United States.
15:54And there's like 19 states, mostly Democrat or I think all Democrat states that allow
15:59non -citizens to get licenses.
16:01And so the fear is that it is going to be easy for these illegal
16:06aliens to go out and vote if we don't include some sort of form of
16:09citizenship. What have you guys covered on that?
16:12How do you see it?
16:13Break that down for us.
16:14Yeah. So in the lead up to the last presidential election, the Everson, Project, which
16:20is my group, which is affiliated with Heritage, but distinct, went out and interviewed non
16:26-citizens and asked them if they were registered to vote.
16:29You know, what a grand idea, just freaking ask them.
16:32And on camera, over and over again, so many of these illegals admitted to not
16:37being legally in the United States and being registered to vote.
16:40And so it just proved the common sense thing that we all know that the
16:44system has been designed with very massive gaping loopholes and that people are taking advantage
16:49of them. And the problem is with the U .S.
16:51election system, there's really no existing way to vet those things, right?
16:55You can only do so much preventative maintenance, but you can't, you know, look backwards.
16:59And that's why the 2020 election still will never be known what the final vote
17:03tallies are, why it's the lowest trusted election in American history.
17:07Now, the Save Act, critically important, of course, we endorse it.
17:10Like, illegals shouldn't vote, but it's like, you know, getting a penicillin shot and instead
17:14of addressing the reason why you may or may not need penicillin shot in the
17:18first place, right? Another way to say, don't have illegals in the country.
17:22Like, we don't, I want the Save Act, yes, but if you really want to
17:25solve the problem of illegals potentially being able to vote, get the illegals out of
17:30the country in the first place.
17:31And so that's what I'm focused on.
17:33And I think Republicans who will sit there and say, yeah, we have enough votes
17:36for the Save Act, but oh, we're not going to get rid of the speaking
17:39filibuster. We can't do that.
17:40I think they're going to check the box with the base and move on and
17:44then quietly oppose the mass deportation policy of Trump, which is happening right now.
17:49And to answer your question that you posed to RJ, just build out a little
17:52bit more, we definitely will lose big terms, we as in the Republicans, if President
17:57Trump does not achieve his second campaign promise out of 20.
18:01Number one was secure the border.
18:02Number two was biggest mass deportation.
18:04Last year, he deported about 300 ,000 with the, you know, real numbers of deportations.
18:08Not the funny numbers you'll see.
18:11We're promised over a million.
18:12He needs to get over a million this year.
18:14And that's the only way to turn what the establishment Republicans want to see as
18:18like this bad baggage into a positive, to do what the people voted for him
18:23to do without fear or favor or apology, even if that means telling the big
18:27donors and the special interest group, sorry, but I'm the drain the swamp guy who
18:33was elected as the first populist takeover of this country, probably since Andrew Jackson, to
18:38oppose corporate interests, to oppose special interests, and to oppose illegal immigration.
18:43And all that being said, should he fail to do that, which we're not going
18:46to, you know, give any chance to happen because we're going to push as hard
18:50as we can to support the president in carrying this out.
18:53His ability still to do it will remain unaffected if Democrats take Congress because of
18:58the money of the one big, beautiful bill.
19:00The money is there. Right now, it's the political will that's not there to target
19:04the enforcement operations on work sites, places with 50 or more illegals, instead of these
19:09onesie -twosie criminal illegal aliens that give everyone the warm and fuzzies to talk about
19:14on Fox News. So that's how I see it.
19:16Let's not. Fox News is great.
19:18So let's, you know, let me just add real quick into that too.
19:24It's, listen, you know, there doesn't need, there was an interesting piece out there where
19:29I know there's somebody on Substack, you know, on a conservative like us, kind of
19:33went around to folks in Ohio, you know, who support mass deportations, you know, want
19:38to work site enforcement and all that.
19:40And a lot of them were kind of taken aback.
19:42It was like off -putting all the charade that was going on up in Minneapolis
19:45where Bovino's out there throwing, you know, tear gas grenades and all that and going
19:50for a spectacle on the street.
19:52Now that spectacle on the street, I'm not saying I was doing anything wrong by
19:54being out there doing that surge.
19:56However, when you're kind of going for a spectacle, doing these standoffs, you're kind of
20:01taking away your ability to quietly do enforcement ops and raids.
20:06A lot of these ICE guys, you know, they're kind of frustrated because if you're
20:09going after a big criminal or something, you do like two weeks of prep.
20:12It's not for a photo op.
20:14You got to do it quietly.
20:15And one thing that was interesting that we noticed up there is when kind of
20:18Tom went up there was quietly negotiating with a lot of these sanctuary counties, which
20:22is absolutely huge, getting in there to their face and making sure that they comply
20:26with the tanners. You had some tweets coming out from Blue Sky, you know, the
20:30opposite of Trump's truth platform saying, feeding for help, like the surge is still going
20:34on. ICE is still here in the community.
20:36But it wasn't on TV.
20:38So it wasn't ginning up so much crazy opposition or whatever.
20:41If no women and the leadership at the time, I'll put it mildly, right when
20:46President Trump took office, they shouldn't have put on a charade of sorts of doing
20:51how many deportations we did every day and all that.
20:53We're just mass deportation. We're doing it right now.
20:55What they needed to say is shit.
20:57The ICE was abolished from within, okay, under Biden.
21:00Our border was wide open.
21:02They should have went in front of a house that they wanted to raid, but
21:05the illegals left. They couldn't get there in time.
21:07Why? Because they needed more resources.
21:09Well, now we have the resources.
21:11We have the swelled up, you know, agent amount.
21:14We got more detention beds coming.
21:15We got more planes. You don't need to put on the show.
21:18The numbers speak for themselves, whether the regular deportations or self -deportations.
21:22Americans will feel the effect.
21:24They don't need to watch it on Fox News every night.
21:27You know, RJ, about that with Tom Homan, you know, working with them, what different,
21:34I mean, it would make a huge difference.
21:36And it would also solve everyone's problem if they just allowed Tom Homan, if they
21:42allowed ICE, if they allowed our federal law enforcement to go pick up these illegal
21:45aliens at the They don't need to be in jail.
21:46They don't need to be in jail.
21:46I mean, that's what they've been doing in Texas.
21:48Where am I understanding, you know, the bulk of the deportations have come from?
21:53Yeah, well, when you look at it, too, it's when you're seeing, you know, 300
21:56or 400 ICE agents, OK, are leaving Minnesota or the Minneapolis area.
22:01Well, that could be a good thing, you could argue, OK?
22:03Get the CBP guys are going back down to the border.
22:06Remember, under President Trump, there was a little surge that happened in his first term.
22:09We got to remain vigilant down there, even though the policies that drove a lot
22:13of it under Biden was rescinded.
22:14Things happen. You got some countries that still aren't complying with removals and all that.
22:19But now these ICE, there's still ICE field offices, you know, up in Minneapolis or
22:23whatever. But these agents now can go back to where they were and join a
22:27swelled up workforce and go after more legal aliens.
22:30Mike makes a point. He was saying the other day, I'll turn it over to
22:32him, like sanctuary counties. That's way more important than a sanctuary city.
22:37Counties are broad, even in the urban area.
22:38I think Tom was negotiating with the one up in Minneapolis.
22:41The more counties we can get to no longer be a sanctuary and fight for
22:46compliance quietly, not just throwing grenades out there, wearing your mask in the street or
22:51whatever, to hammer out these agreements and do narrow, like focused removal efforts and every
22:57illegal alien you cross. And they're eligible for removal.
23:00Of course, you deport them.
23:01But you remain vigilant and you do it in a manner where, hey, we ain't
23:04looking for attention. We're racking them up and delivering to the American people and acting
23:09in accordance with the law.
23:10You know, Mike, I want to end with this.
23:12You know, the way I see it is you look ahead at the 2030 census
23:17projections and Democrats are in blue states are going to lose electoral power, both in
23:25the House with some of these congressional seats, as well as electoral college votes when
23:28it comes to the apportionment, because we've seen this mass migration out of these blue
23:33states to red states as a result of failed policies.
23:37I mean, that's really why these Democrats are opposing the deportation of all these people.
23:43I mean, we've already seen Congressman Yvette Clark say previously that she needs more migrants
23:46for redistricting purposes. Walk us through what that means and why the Democrats would want
23:52these illegal aliens in their districts and their states.
23:55Yeah, so very simply, like the Constitution counts, you know, under the current reading of
24:01it, of the total population, regardless of whether one is a citizen or not, for
24:05determining political representation. So while they can't vote, they hold political power in changing the
24:11electoral map in a way that favors illegal aliens.
24:14All that being said, I think the Republicans miss the point when they prioritize this
24:18as a motivation of Democrats too much.
24:21Yes, it is a few seats, you know, that go and swing every 10 years
24:25or so. But this is like on their master plan list of top 10 things
24:30that they realize illegal immigration can do to undermine the existing war of the United
24:34States. It's at the bottom of that list.
24:36And so I say that, not to say it's not like a critical problem.
24:39It is. But the real problems are way more clear and present.
24:44You don't have to wait every 10 years for them to happen.
24:47It's the decay of basically every institution, all the government services.
24:51It also creates, you know, political constituencies that are not illegal aliens.
24:55And look at the people that are rioting out in Minneapolis or wherever.
24:59Those people largely aren't illegal aliens.
25:02They're galvanized individuals with psychological problems that are preyed upon by some of the worst
25:07themes in American politics, which relate to race and, you know, everything else that's out
25:12there. So Democrats need illegal immigration for a lot of reasons.
25:17Census redistricting certainly is one, but it's not on their top 10 list.
25:20Pretty bad when we're talking about, you know, the swinging of 10 potential seats in
25:24Congress if that doesn't even crack the top 10 list.
25:28All right. Well, I think we solved all the immigration problems.
25:32So, Mike, RJ, appreciate it.
25:34Don't crack. I think it's all it's all situated now.
25:38The last 30 minutes because of this conversation.
25:41So appreciate you guys coming on.
25:43Thanks, guys. Yeah, of course.
25:45Appreciate it. That was RJ Howellman, president of the National Immigration Center for Enforcement.
25:51Also, Mike Howell, who is on the board of that.
25:52He also leads the Oversight Project.
25:54Appreciate you guys at home for listening every Tuesday and Thursday.
25:57You can listen throughout the week.
25:58I also want to thank John Cassio, my producer, for putting the show together.
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