The Karol Markowicz Show: Breaking the Echo Chamber: Philip Reichert on Junto, Conservative Debate & the Future of Independent Media
3/18/202627 mincomplete
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0:47Call 844 -844 -iHeart. Hi, and welcome back to the Carol Marker Show on iHeart
0:58Radio. I got a listener note recently that I wanted to answer, and it's been
1:06on my mind because this is a topic that everybody's talking about.
1:10So let's get into it.
1:12Hi, Carol. You talk about not losing your friendships over politics, but I have two
1:16friends who have fallen deep into the rabbit hole of conspiracy podcasters, and I'm not
1:21sure what to do. These friends were moderate or right of center, and it's not
1:25that we have policy disagreements.
1:27It's that they don't believe anything they hear other than from podcasters who are obviously
1:32lying to them. One of the friends has mentioned Jewish power to me, and while
1:37I'm not Jewish, it was jarring to hear my normal friend say something like this.
1:41What do I do? So it's true.
1:44I have often talked about not losing friendships over politics, but I do think that
1:50some things are transcending of politics, and that when you go too far and it's
1:56no longer about just policy or supporting a politician or a policy idea or any
2:03kind of thing like that, then it's a different step.
2:06Bridget Phetasy had this great line on X.
2:09She tweeted, It's actually like being in a zombie apocalypse movie, and when someone you
2:14love starts talking about the Zionists, it's them pulling up their sleeve to reveal they've
2:19been bit, and you're like, Oh shit, not you too.
2:22That's what rings true to me.
2:23It's not that you disagree with them on politics.
2:26It's that they are going through something.
2:30I like to imagine that maybe people can come back from that zombie apocalypse, but,
2:35you know, we haven't seen it happen yet.
2:36But Bethany Mandel once wrote a piece titled, It's Time to Start Befriending Neo -Nazis.
2:43Now, I was never in full agreement with her about it, because when someone shows
2:47me they oppose me, I don't go to great lengths to earn their support.
2:52But I do get her argument in the bigger picture.
2:55We shouldn't throw away people who have been led astray.
2:59We should try to help them.
3:01So do you cut off your friends?
3:02I admit that I have definitely distanced myself from people who have made these kinds
3:08of nods towards the conspiracy right.
3:10Because, like you say, it's not a policy disagreement.
3:14If you oppose the war in Iran and I support it, we can still be
3:18friends. If you oppose it because you think Jews are conniving con artists who have
3:23tricked our president into defending Israel, then no, we can't be friends.
3:28The point that I come back to again and again is that the people who
3:33end up on the wrong side of the Zionists are out to get us, they
3:37ultimately end up betraying a hatred of America, too.
3:41The most disgusting episode of this whole, you know, podcastist Dan saga is Candace Owen
3:49suggesting that Erica Kirk might be involved in the murder of her husband, Charlie.
3:56Another gross one is Tucker Carlson going to Russia and marveling at it in the
4:01most just left -wing sucker way.
4:05Now, neither of these things involve Jews or Israel.
4:10And to me, they are evident that, yes, Jews may be the target now, but
4:15it never ends with just us.
4:18So your choice is, obviously, to keep your friends and try to change their minds
4:22or cut them off. And it's not really a decision that anyone can make for
4:27you or advice that somebody can give you because you have to decide whether there
4:32is something to lose if you no longer have these friends.
4:36And the question you need to ask yourself is, do your values still align with
4:41them? It really might be an easy out if you realize they do not.
4:46Thank you so much for writing in.
4:48If you'd like to write in, you can email carolmarkowitzshow at gmail .com or check
4:54out on my X page, I sometimes post a link to the anonymous place where
4:59you can submit a question.
5:01Coming up next, my interview with Philip Breikhardt.
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6:05That's 844 -844 -iHeart. Hi, and welcome back to the Carol Markowitz Show on iHeart
6:13Radio. My guest today is Philip Rekert.
6:15Philip is the founder of a new online magazine called Junto.
6:20So nice to meet you, Philip.
6:22Hi, Carol. How are you doing?
6:24So I've been hearing about your magazine from you.
6:28I would love to hear what you're planning to do and what the impetus was
6:33for this. Sure. So I've been working in media for a long time.
6:38By my standards, I'm fairly young compared to most of the people who work in
6:42media. But I've been working in media for a while.
6:43And I've noticed we have, at least within, you know, conservative circles, we have cycles
6:50of consensus and debate. But especially now, as we get increasingly algorithmic and increasingly siloed,
7:00it feels like we don't really have these debates amongst ourselves with people who should
7:05be our allies, really. Maybe we don't agree on everything.
7:08But these people, you know, should be ideologically aligned with us, at least most of
7:13the time. But we're not really having those debates.
7:16We are we're separating into into silos.
7:19We're talking to people who agree with us.
7:21And if we do talk to people who don't agree with us, it's it's like
7:25dunking on Twitter. Right. And I don't think that's very productive.
7:28So is the magazine going to feature a variety of viewpoints?
7:33Is Junto going to be, I don't know, a magazine for all?
7:37It's I wouldn't. Well, I would be open to having, quote, all if if if
7:44it is presented in one, good faith and two, if you can rely on the
7:48perspective. One of the things that I don't necessarily appreciate about the left and not
7:54in a negative way. But I think that sometimes the framing that the left has
7:59through maybe no fault of their own, but maybe through through bias, they don't cover
8:04right wing issues correctly. I don't think they have the context to do so, even
8:08when they try, even when, you know, you take a capital J journalist.
8:13They just don't they don't know what they're talking about necessarily with intraconservative debate.
8:18So I would be hesitant to in that situation, have someone on the left talk
8:25about something. However, I do think on the right, you know, the the good faith,
8:31you know, provision is somewhat normal.
8:34I think we're all trying to either either advance our own perspective within conservative discourse
8:39or be just, you know, talk with people who should be our allies.
8:43So it is it is a magazine for all, at least within the conservative debate.
8:49Yes. Do you expect liberals or leftists to write for you?
8:53Like, do you think they'll want to?
8:54I expect them to pitch us for sure.
8:56Yeah, you do? I think I think, you know, in the same way what you'll
9:01see a lot of times, even with conservative journalists, there is always a push to
9:06have the byline in The Washington Post, there is always the want to be acknowledged
9:13by institutional media from right to left.
9:17So I think, you know, it is it is it is almost tempting, I think,
9:21for a liberal or leftist or progressive, either journalist or writer or just somebody who
9:26pays attention to want to be, you know, commentating on these issues.
9:30So I do expect, assuming there's enough buy in, I do expect leftists to pitch
9:35us. Yeah, it's funny. I have never wanted to be published in Washington Post or
9:40New York Times. I just never had the like, urge for it.
9:44In fact, as you were saying that I was thinking what I'm most proud of,
9:48like when I'm most proud of my work is when I self publish something and
9:52it ends up really blowing up, like becoming very big.
9:55Look, it's easy to when you write for the New York Post or Fox News,
9:59your pieces, you know, get widely read.
10:01It's great. I love it.
10:02I love it a lot.
10:03I love both of those outlets as my like home outlets.
10:06But I feel the most pride when I like sub stack something and it explodes.
10:12And that to me is the opposite of wishing to write in the Washington Post
10:17or the New York Times.
10:18It's like building your own audience is more exciting.
10:22Do you feel that? I think whether good or bad, if you're writing for an
10:29outlet, they are you're a contractor.
10:32They are they are hiring you to write this, presumably because they want that position
10:36to be acknowledged in their in their editorial section.
10:39And you may be the right person to do that.
10:42And it may be even sometimes even a novel viewpoint.
10:46But at the end of the day, it is they want this to be expressed.
10:50And you don't really see that on some.
10:52Substack. Sometimes Twitter too, like you have particularly anonymous people who have some interesting things
10:57to say, but when you can go out and you can write what you want
11:00to write without editorial direction guardrails on either end, and it does blow up.
11:07I think that does two things.
11:09One, it's obviously incredibly satisfying to have your ideas validated.
11:12But two, I think that is a far more productive use of like the media
11:16ecosystem than just let's present this viewpoint sort of formulaically.
11:23So what are you going to do differently from other online magazines?
11:27What's the thinking? Well, I would like to have when we have intraconservative debate, and
11:33the hard thing about this is balancing having contributors on all sides of any issue.
11:39Right. I would like to have potentially even like an A and a B.
11:43It's like, hey, you know, I really think that, you know, I'll give you an
11:47example. I have friends on all sides of every debate and my timeline right now,
11:53and it's different depending on who you are.
11:56Some people will say and see that Mike Huckabee just schools Tucker Carlson in an
12:02interview. And then the other side of the spectrum is people who will only see
12:07on their timeline that Tucker Carlson did the opposite.
12:09He schooled Mike Huckabee. So I think part of that is algorithmic capture of people.
12:15But it would be nice if you could go to one place and you could
12:17have both sides present in good faith, their arguments.
12:21And one, that brings people together a little bit more.
12:24And two, maybe both sides could learn a little bit either about the other side
12:28or about something that they didn't consider about the interview.
12:31I think that's just far more productive.
12:33Now, granted, this probably isn't the best business model.
12:37But, you know, if you if you do everything to make money, you end up
12:40with what we have now, which is just, you know, people saying crazy things.
12:44So how will you make money?
12:47We will we will do our best.
12:48I think the most important thing you can do is produce interesting content that people
12:52when I consume media, I granted I work in media.
12:57But when I consume media, I want to be challenged.
13:00I want to learn something.
13:01I want to find something potentially novel or new to help me understand the world
13:05a little better. And I have an optimistic view that a lot of people are
13:11like that. I don't think a lot of people want to go and validate their
13:14priors. I don't think that's a very good use of anyone's time.
13:19For news and stuff, it's different.
13:20But for opinion, if you just go and you read a bunch of people you
13:24agree with, I don't think you're spending your time very wisely.
13:27So I would like for this to be a place where people can go and
13:29learn something. I think you're being a little optimistic about people not wanting to confirm
13:35their priors. People do want to confirm their priors.
13:38They do very much enjoy confirming their priors.
13:42What's the response been? It's been really good.
13:45It's been it's been mixed on topic, but it has been really good.
13:49I mean, within we are only three weeks old.
13:52We already have 14 ,000 Twitter followers.
13:53Amazing. Yeah, we have hundreds of subscribers already.
13:57And this is I haven't I did not get like an institutional PR person to
14:03help with this. I just this is all starting from absolutely nothing.
14:07And basically my friends. And it's been it's been really good.
14:10I think it it has shown within the first month that it can exist and
14:14it doesn't it's not just going to fail out due to lack of money or
14:17something like that. Yeah, that's very optimistic.
14:19The fact that it is a month in you're feeling good about it, because I
14:23think when when these things don't work, I think it's obvious pretty quickly.
14:27So I agree. I love I love to see it.
14:30I love I'm going to be looking forward to reading the debates that you have
14:34and and seeing where you wind up.
14:38Writing is actually very hard.
14:41Is talking is far easier.
14:43So, you know, I will definitely take you up on that at some point.
14:47Right. So one of the three questions I ask all of my guests in the
14:52show is about living better and improving your life is what are you most proud
14:58of in your life? It's easy.
14:59And it's it's almost a cop out answer because a lot of people say something
15:02like this, but I'm really most proud of my family.
15:05But I don't mean it in the sense that I have my family.
15:08I've had a lot of sort of headwinds with regards to family.
15:12I've you know, I live in Texas.
15:13My in -laws live in New York.
15:15We've moved all around the country with my wife and my child and my family
15:20lives in Tallahassee, Florida, the greatest city in the United States.
15:23Whoa, whoa, whoa. Just saying.
15:26I thought you were going to say the greatest state in the United States.
15:28And I was like, yeah, what is that, too?
15:30But there's the crown jewel, of course, into Tallahassee.
15:34It's gotten better. All right.
15:35No, it's actually I thought it had some really great southern food, which, you know,
15:40is always funny in Florida.
15:41The more north you get, the more south you are.
15:44I had some really excellent shrimp and grits in Tallahassee.
15:49But other than that, I don't know.
15:54We have a Lululemon now, right?
15:56Things are moving up. We could seg for a second and tell me what you
15:59love about Tallahassee. What I love about Tallahassee is it is it's a place in
16:05some ways that time forgot.
16:07Like Tallahassee just is what it is.
16:09It has not been totally captured by gentrification.
16:13Its heritage remains somewhat intact.
16:15And I do sort of in a hipster sort of way appreciate that when people
16:19think of flow. they don't necessarily think of Tallahassee.
16:22No, they don't. But, you know, I mean, my uncle, he was Speaker of the
16:26House and President of the Florida Senate for a time.
16:29And he actually was one of the ones responsible for one of the many times
16:33that they've tried to move the Capitol to Orlando.
16:35He was responsible for keeping it there.
16:37Yeah, he's also a lobbyist for Trump.
16:39So I'm just I'm proud.
16:42I think everyone should be proud of capital P place and where they're from and
16:46what produced them. And for me, I obviously in a rational sense, I know Tallahassee,
16:52it has pretty, pretty parts and it has some good things about it, but it
16:56also has bad things. But I'm still going to be proud of where I came
17:00from, for sure. All right.
17:01I love that. OK, back to your proud of your family, but not the same
17:05way as everybody else. Tell me.
17:06Well, you know, I'm sure a lot of people feel this way, too.
17:09But it's not just that I have family.
17:11It's that, you know, I've been moved all across the country and we work in
17:16media and politics. And while that takes place everywhere, it is hard to have a
17:20sort of national career in media and politics.
17:23And it is particularly hard on on family.
17:26But through it all, you know, maintaining employment, gainful employment, I have managed to be
17:33there for my wife and my three year old daughter.
17:36My mother died when I was when she was rather young, when I was at
17:42Fox and my father just passed.
17:45And I was able to be there for all of them during those times.
17:47I was able to balance all of those family responsibilities and really put them first.
17:54Yeah. I might not have been able to do that in any career.
17:56And I certainly would have been better off in this career if I had not
18:00put my family first. But I don't regret it ever putting my family before anything
18:05else. And I'm super grateful to have a family that I can be proud of
18:09and that's still involved with me.
18:10I love that. Are you going to do a lot of family focused content on
18:14Junto? I would like to, assuming we can do it in a way that's not
18:19derivative or reductive. Absolutely. I mean, it is one of I think the touch points
18:25of the last maybe few years is like, particularly with the trad trend that we
18:30have on the right and figuring out what family really means for people.
18:34I think that would be an excellent topic to cover.
18:36Yeah. It usually doesn't mean like setting up lights and a camera and cooking things
18:41from absolute scratch. First, making the bread for the sandwich that you're going to make
18:46your kids. Generally, not how it works.
18:49But yeah, I'd love to see that on Junto.
18:51I think that that perspective, the doing whatever you have to do for your family
18:55and losing out maybe on opportunities instead of that.
19:01I think that's a interesting path to cover.
19:05Yeah. I mean, everyone would be well, some people did put their family absolutely person
19:10may probably a lot of people, but would I have liked to stay at Fox
19:14News for five years and have that sort of institutional background?
19:17Of course. But nothing beats, you know, waking up next to my daughter and having
19:23my family right next to me every step of the way.
19:25Easy call. Yeah, absolutely. We're going to take a quick break and be right back
19:29on the Carol Markowitz Show.
19:31This podcast is brought to you by Wise, the app for international people using money
19:36around the globe. With Wise, you can send, spend and receive in over 40 currencies
19:41with no markups or hidden fees.
19:43Sending pounds across the pond, spending Rai's in Rio or getting paid in dollars for
19:48your side gig. You'll get the mid -market exchange rate on every transaction.
19:52Plus, most transfers arrive in less than 20 seconds.
19:54Join 15 million customers internationally.
19:57Be smart. Get Wise. Download the Wise app or visit wise .com.
20:01T's and C's apply. Run a business and not thinking about podcasting?
20:05Think again. More Americans listen to podcasts than ad -supported streaming music from Spotify and
20:10Pandora. And as the number one podcaster, iHeart's twice as large as the next two
20:14combined. So whatever your customers listen to, they'll hear your message.
20:18Plus, only iHeart can extend your message to audiences across broadcast radio.
20:22Think podcasting can help your business?
20:24Think iHeart. Streaming, radio, and podcasting.
20:27Let us show you at iHeartAdvertising .com.
20:30That's iHeartAdvertising .com. Give us a five -year -out prediction, and it could be about
20:38anything at all. It could be about the world, the country, art, music, anything.
20:43Well, this is kind of cheating.
20:44I think this prediction applies whether it's one year, whether it's five years, 10, 20.
20:49And there are two things I see a lot that really demonstrate this.
20:53The first that I see a lot is people saying Twitter is not real life.
20:58I'm sure you've seen that a lot on the timeline.
21:00And you think it is.
21:01Well, hold on. The other thing that I see is like someone will launch a
21:06podcast, and I do see this actually a lot in other industries like tech and
21:10gardening and every sort of thing.
21:13People will say, oh, not another podcast.
21:15And I think the irony of that one is great because we're talking on a
21:19podcast right now. But if you look at people's media consumption and the sort of
21:24generational changes over time that we're seeing, regardless of what timeline you use, we are
21:31going to be more digital, and we are going to be more oriented towards new
21:36media and independent media and social media in a way that would seem unfathomable even
21:4310 years ago. Right. So Twitter is not real life.
21:46I mean, we already have.
21:48What is it? The New York Times is writing about the group chats that are
21:50steering policy in D .C.
21:52I think Twitter may not perfectly be real life right now.
21:56And maybe we might have a glut of podcasts right now by our interpretation.
22:01But look at what the kids are doing.
22:04Look at what new generations are doing with their media consumption.
22:07It is going to be even more so in the future.
22:11Guaranteed. Regardless of what your timeline is.
22:14I agree with you. I think that we use it, how you use it, obviously,
22:19is most important. I think when people say Twitter is not real life, at least
22:23for me, when I remind myself that Twitter is not real life, is when somebody
22:26pisses me off on Twitter or says something that makes me want to react in
22:30a negative way or any of that.
22:35Also, just the fact that the people you're surrounded with in your real life, like
22:39you talked about your family, that's real life.
22:42Yes, the friends you make on Twitter can also spill over into real life.
22:47But in general, when somebody you follow dies on Twitter, you're sad about it.
22:53You can be genuinely sad about it, and I have been, but you're retweeting five
22:57minutes later. That's not what happens in real life.
23:00You're not like, oh, my friend died.
23:01Oh, let me go post about the news.
23:04That's the distinction, at least for me.
23:06But I agree with you that the way that younger people are using social media
23:12or media in general is very different, and it's not as personal to them as
23:19I think it is for a lot of others.
23:21It is hard. A lot of my friends are on Twitter.
23:24I've met really, really close friends from Twitter.
23:26In fact, I wouldn't necessarily still probably be working in this industry without Twitter because
23:31it is sort of the great equalizer and it allows you to keep networked with
23:35people. Yeah, it gives a lot of opportunities.
23:38It lets you have your authentic voice out there.
23:41I think that's how people discover new people to follow or listen to.
23:46I think professionally, it's an incredible tool.
23:49The people whose lives revolve around it, who you could tell are on it all
23:54the time. Too much. Way too much.
23:56And look, I'm an addict myself.
23:58I talk about it on this show where when I go on vacation with my
24:02family, a lot of the time I'll take Twitter off my phone completely and my
24:06finger will still try to hit the place that the icon used to be on
24:10the phone. I mean, that's how badly addicted I am.
24:13So I get it, but to me, it feels good to say it's not real
24:18life. It's not a negative.
24:21It's a good reminder, I think, for the people who take it too far.
24:25Absolutely. Well, I've loved this conversation, Philip.
24:29I think you're very interesting and I'm really looking forward to seeing what Junto does.
24:33Leave us here with your best tip for my listeners on how they can improve
24:38their lives. Sure. So I'll lead it with a very quick story.
24:43When I was in, when I first joined the army as an intelligence analyst and
24:47we were in the intelligence school, we had first gotten access to our secret computers.
24:52And one of the things that we did was we watched, not as a group,
24:59it was, we had found this individuals had found this independently.
25:02The footage from ISIS's invasion of Iraq in 2014, which had just happened.
25:08I joined the army in 2015.
25:10And at the time I actually, it was, it was like a snuff film.
25:14It was horrific stuff. It looked a lot like the stuff we saw on Twitter
25:17on October 7th. It was very familiar in that way.
25:21And I made myself watch it because I wanted to familiarize myself with why I
25:26basically joined the army and this is who I was going to fight for.
25:29But more importantly, it's, that is a good reminder of where you are.
25:34If you're an American, you have nothing like this in your world and you should
25:38really be appreciative of America in that way for two reasons.
25:42One, America is obviously prosperous and we have a commitment to the rule of law
25:46and all of these things.
25:47But more importantly, whenever there is a crisis like that, I'm not saying we have
25:52an inherent obligation to fix it, but whenever there's a crisis like that, if someone
25:56is going to be the mediator or the force that fixes it, it's going to
26:01be America. So I think one thing that all Americans could really take away from
26:05is just a very intentional, intentional, you know, being thankful of America, because I don't
26:12know exactly why you do what you do, but I do what I do because
26:15it's all oriented around service to country.
26:18And I think whether you're a mother just, you know, raising the next generation or
26:22whether you're a pundit selling takes on Twitter or whether you're a Fox News host,
26:27all of that has to come from America first.
26:30I love that. I love that answer.
26:32I think that is so right on.
26:34What we have here is so special and different.
26:36And, you know, we're recording this right after the U .S.
26:40men's hockey team won their amazing, amazing win against Canada.
26:44It's going to, this is going to air in a few weeks, but it's a
26:46very rah -rah America day.
26:48And I love the idea that we should appreciate it.
26:52Thank you so much for coming on.
26:53He is Philip Braykart. Check him out at Junto Magazine.
26:57Thank you so much. Thank you.