The Karol Markowicz Show: The Conservative Media Crisis: Conspiracies, Social Media & the Fight for Truth
4/24/202638 mincomplete
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0:17Call 844 -844 -iHeart. Hi, and welcome back to The Carol Markowitz Show on iHeart
0:28Radio. My guest today is David Raboy.
0:31David is working on a book called Viral Libels.
0:34Hi, David. So nice to have you on.
0:37Great to be with you.
0:38So you've been on before and you're a rare repeating guest.
0:42The last time you were on was May 2024.
0:45We talked largely about Florida, how New York was best in 1997, art, music.
0:54Things have, you know, changed a little bit since then.
0:57And I brought you on today because I want the David Raboy plan for the
1:03conservative right. I want to know, you know, I make the joke to you all
1:07the time. I am on 27 group chats with you.
1:10You have a lot of, I don't want to say takes because that sounds cheap.
1:14You have a lot of thoughts about where we should go.
1:17And I kind of wanted to just have them all in one place.
1:20It's a little bit different than the normal show I do.
1:22But I really like hearing from you.
1:26So tell me about it.
1:28Where should the conservative movement go starting today and how?
1:32Well, I appreciate that. And I appreciate you having me back.
1:37Look, I guess the easy way to begin this is that, you know, I just
1:45hope the conservative movement gets back to, you know, being smart, you know, period.
1:55And what we've seen in the last several years is really like it's an unfortunate
2:02degradation in terms of the content that people are accessing.
2:07And I think that, let's say, the content that people are accessing that is transforming
2:15the way they think and transforming the way they understand the world in, frankly, in
2:21a negative way. It's been a little, you know, it's been a little ridiculous to
2:28watch because, look, I mean, I've never seen an example where, you know, a population,
2:34you know, just decides to get together and just all kind of raises their IQs
2:39at the same time once they've been systematically lowered.
2:44And for that reason, I'm kind of a pessimist about this.
2:47Kind of, yeah. A little bit.
2:49Yeah, slightly. But look, I mean, to rewind, I think, you know, the question is
2:56how we got here. And, you know, here for maybe for your listeners or for
3:01a lot of people who are, you know, who I suspect are your listeners, they
3:06will be familiar with the podcastification, you know, the retardification and the podcastification that kind
3:14of comes very much together of the American right.
3:18Right. Specifically, the folks who constitute the online activist branch of the of the American
3:26right. And I mean, we know it's we know it's a problem and, you know,
3:31it's a problem. I always say this.
3:32It's a problem not because people are saying things that are mean and rude and
3:37whatever. And it's not like it's not a food fight.
3:40I mean, I don't mind a food fight.
3:42What we have now is we have we have people who at a, you know,
3:49at a mass scale are believing things that are just not true.
3:53Right. And their ability to decipher what is true from what isn't seems to be
4:01in remission or sabotaged or whatever.
4:05And and and I have to say, like, look, a lot of this is a
4:09lot of this is technological.
4:11What I say all the time is that we are we're involved.
4:14We involve ourself in a kind of experiment with social media in a way that
4:19no civilization had ever done before.
4:23And, you know, we said, hey, you know, what's the worst that can happen if
4:26we play with matches? And here we are burning the house down.
4:30Yeah. I mean, it turns out that that this is a serious problem.
4:33I mean, just I don't know when this is going to air, but but just
4:36just yesterday, the vice president suggested that, you know, young conservatives listen to Theo Vaughn,
4:44you know, podcast, which is like insane.
4:47It's completely insane. Was that him being like trying to be hip with the kids?
4:54Like, what do you think of that?
4:55Do you think he listens to Theo Vaughn?
4:59Look, I don't know. But if he was trying to be hip with the kid,
5:04I mean, maybe he was trying to be hip with the kids, but I don't
5:08think that's particularly a selling point.
5:10I mean, I don't want my politicians to be hip with the kids.
5:13I agree. But that's, you know, I'm just wondering, I guess it's the line of
5:17like, is it real or is he just saying that?
5:20And, you know, as I joke that trying to be hip with the kids like
5:24Theo Vaughn's like. pushing 50 he's not some young you know cool hip kid he's
5:29actually old also yeah but he's but he's also popular with uh i mean what
5:34i don't understand about it is yes you know someone like theovan is is is
5:38completely um you know fact free and without i mean i understand if you think
5:43he's funny okay listen to the jokes but um he was specifically asked about political
5:48podcasts and to me that's insane and it's also insane that i mean if he
5:54if if the vice president believes that um that the young people are out listening
5:59to theovan then presumably he wouldn't have to tell them to listen to theovan he
6:04wouldn't have to recommend it um so it i mean it's it's it's that kind
6:10of thing and it's and uh and look i mean we've we've always had one
6:15of the things i'm writing about in the book is how in america we've always
6:20had a very strong conspiratorial um you know uh undercurrent running through running through through
6:28the through this country for hundreds of years really since the beginning um but up
6:33until recently there was a divide between conspiracy the conspiracy media ecosystem which was understood
6:41to be entertainment by most people and the political uh media ecosystem which was supposed
6:48to be you know serious people talking about serious political things and um you know
6:54i mean when i was young i listened to art bell all the time and
6:59george nori and you know coast to coast am i didn't think it was real
7:02i thought it was funny i thought it was entertaining and when alex jones first
7:08came on the scene he was very much in that same vein um i think
7:13um i think it was significant when tucker carlson had alex jones on his show
7:18and called him a prophet and basically gave him a a a blessing that was
7:24already post fox right yes that was that was one of his first post fox
7:29shows yeah and um and then and then really after that we saw the collapse
7:34we saw the collapse and but i don't want to pin this all on on
7:37carlson i mean joe rogan has been a huge um has been a huge issue
7:42here in terms of um you know i mean here's a guy who interviews um
7:48crank conspiracy theorists talking about ancient aliens on one hand and on the other hand
7:53he's interviewing you know politicians and right and policymakers and serious people about about supposedly
7:59serious things so it ends up making everything dumb do you have a point where
8:05you see this begin because like as you're talking about this it actually reminds me
8:10a lot of like john stewart mask on mask you know clown nose on clown
8:14nose off kind of thing do you have like a moment where you feel like
8:19this started so um i'm sure you can find all kinds of um all kinds
8:26of precedents but i think the two big factors that that i talk about are
8:31rogan specifically and then and then uh tucker carlson with alex jones um sort of
8:37bringing him into the uh you know bringing him away from conspiracy entertainment into like
8:43political podcasting and you could say that that that this happened during covid too um
8:49which was which was also and and i write about that as well which also
8:54kind of scrambled people's brains and made them a lot more susceptible to uh you
9:00know to conspiracism absolutely yeah you know and and it's a really hard issue because
9:06on one hand if you can't if you come and like i do and i
9:10and i say look conspiracism is a thing it's a way of thinking it's a
9:15way of understanding the world and putting you know putting facts together or not um
9:20and uh but um you know and then people will come back to you and
9:25they'll say well you know haven't these conspiracy theories turned out to be true or
9:30they'll they'll say well you know obviously people conspire together to do bad things like
9:36isn't that a conspiracy and um you know and really what it requires is is
9:41i mean the way i like to think about it is conspiracism is this way
9:46of thinking it's this way of um of assembling um facts that don't necessarily add
9:53up right um and uh and you know look i mean i i don't think
9:59there's an easy way out of this and that's that's the problem that's the question
10:04here if we follow the david raboi plan what is that plan to get us
10:11out of this well i mean the the the first thing i think is is
10:15you know there was there was that uh people used to say in the old
10:19days that if uh that if all americans were forced to take an economic like
10:23one economic one economics class you know there would be no more democratic party right
10:28um and i think there's a lot of truth to that um i think if
10:31everyone was forced to really think about logic and and rules of evidence and you
10:40know why why is it that i why is it that i believe this thing
10:43that i just heard but forcing people to you know can't work right so what
10:48do we do as conservatives to move it in the direction of sanity.
10:54Like, I guess I'm not looking for you to have the answer here today, but
11:00I just think you've produced a lot of answers over the years.
11:04And I wonder if you have like an overarching thought on this.
11:08What do we do? Where do we go?
11:10And also, I would say that a lot of people trace this to Israel or
11:14it involves Israel. I think you've been talking about the, you know, I don't really
11:19use the R words. I'll say idification of, you know, the right for a long
11:24time. So where do you think we should go?
11:29And it just keeps getting worse.
11:31Well, I know you say that.
11:32I know. I know you're, you know, I think on every chat we're on, I'm
11:36the optimist, you're the pessimist.
11:38I still respect what you're saying, but in general, I think it all works out
11:43in the end. I just don't know the path there yet.
11:49Well, I'm not, I'm not across the board, a black pill person.
11:54No, no, no, no, no, no.
11:56Really? I'm not. I'm white.
11:57I'm white -pilled. I'm white -pilled about, I'm white -pilled a lot of, about, about
12:02a lot of things. But then on the other hand, like I'm Hungarian.
12:04I mean, what do you, what do you expect?
12:07This is very, this is very much a cultural, a cultural artifact.
12:12But, but, you know, so the question is, what do you do about this?
12:17And, and I think the only thing you can do really is to, you know,
12:23what, what did Jordan Peterson say, stand up straight with your shoulders back.
12:28And, and to, to just keep repeating this, you know, repeating the thing over and
12:36over and to challenge people and to, and to not, and really, and, and, and
12:40to not accept it. I mean, when people are saying ridiculous things and, and I
12:44mean, we haven't even gotten into the, you know, into the specifics about what, you
12:49know, what some of the things people are saying, but I'll just take an example
12:52just to make things concrete.
12:54You know, the Candace Owens conspiracy theories.
12:57Yeah. That Charlie wasn't really shot.
12:59Just proliferate. Is a, is a conspiracy theory that I see circulating among, I don't
13:04want to call them normies anymore, but I'm, I'm talking about my non -political friends
13:08are like, bullets don't do that when they hit the neck.
13:12And I'm like, what in the world do you know about bullets?
13:15Like bullets do lots of things and all these people, you know, they'll have hunters
13:19and et cetera, in their comment sections being like, well, actually bullets do a lot
13:23of crazy things when they make contact.
13:26Um, but you know, the idea that he wasn't shot, that he had a bomb
13:32planted or something on him.
13:34I mean, the idea that his wife was involved in it, the idea that his
13:37coworkers were involved in it.
13:40Um, all of this seems so batshit that I don't understand how people buy it.
13:45Well, the specifics about each allegation are less important than the batshitness of, you know,
13:53of, of kind of this way of thinking and, and, um, you know, and you,
13:58and you turn around to these people and you say like, what, I mean, if
14:00you think that that could have happened, you could basically argue that anything could have
14:05happened. Anything, right. It would, you know, it, you know, it was aliens, you know,
14:09it was aliens or for, Don't give Candace any ideas.
14:13Right. Because it definitely could have been Jewish aliens.
14:17Right. And, and look, look, I mean, I, I think, I think, uh, it's important
14:21to point out that if people lived their lives based on this standard of evidence,
14:26they would not be able to function.
14:30You know, I mean, if you, one, one example I use in the book, like
14:35if you, uh, if you come downstairs, uh, in, in the morning and go to
14:41the kitchen, you open up the, you know, you look at the kitchen and you
14:44see that there were, there were cookies, um, there last night and the cookies are
14:48no longer there in the morning.
14:50Um, it's a safe bet that someone in your house ate the cookies while you
14:55were asleep. Right. Um, you don't immediately think that it was Mossad and CIA that
15:01came together and, you know, or some other, you know, um, hypothetical construction came together
15:08and they, and, and they did this.
15:09That doesn't even enter your brain.
15:11Um, and, and if someone would suggest that that happened, you would look and you
15:16would say, you're crazy. Like what would, what would be the basis of this?
15:21Um, and so I think people in their ordinary lives understand that.
15:25You just know Tucker would be like, well, everybody knows Mossad eats, Mossad eats all
15:28the cookies. Right, right. So, so, so I think it's, I think it's really important
15:34to push back on this, you know, specifically with that angle.
15:38Um, and I mean, at the end of the day, we don't get out of
15:41this, uh, you know, we don't get out of this by trying as hard as
15:45we can to raise a standard, you know, standard of thinking, standard of processing evidence.
15:49The other thing that we can do, and I don't say we like you and
15:53I, I mean, I do think that this is, that there is a large, uh,
15:56government role here. Really? Um, there's a lot that the government can do specifically when
16:03it comes to dealing with hostile foreign information campaigns that waged via social media.
16:10We are completely naked. We are absolute, we are the most vulnerable.
16:16I mean, we are absolute vulnerability.
16:19Mm -hmm. By by foreign enemy nations that want to destroy our our ability to
16:27think and to process information and to understand reality.
16:32And we're going to take a quick break and be right back on The Carol
16:36Markowitz Show. Run a business and not thinking about podcasting.
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17:07That's iHeartAdvertising .com. Is it just using our freedom against us?
17:13Is that what's going on?
17:14No, it's using technology. I mean, it's using our freedom against us, but really it's
17:18using technology against us. And and and I think that that we we despair when
17:24we see what's happening and we say, oh, my God, this is so terrible.
17:27And we and and we don't and we discount what foreigners are doing to sort
17:34of goose this process along.
17:37And, for example, the Russians have long understood that any kind of that promoting any
17:44kind of conspiracism in the United States is good for them.
17:48Why? Because it breaks brains.
17:50They know that it breaks brains.
17:52Our enemies understand that it brings the Chinese understand that, you know, that that, you
17:59know, more people believing in Bigfoot or, you know, JFK or whatever conspiracy theories.
18:07And it's it's it helps them and benefits them at the end of the day,
18:11because every conspiracy theory chips away at our at our faith in our country, number
18:19one. And number two, in logic and reason and our ability to function.
18:25Yeah. And when when this type of thing proliferates, you get a whole bunch of
18:30nonsense and you get people who are not capable of dealing with reality.
18:35And that that is going to harm us terribly when something goes wrong.
18:41I always say the same thing.
18:43God forbid there's a 9 -11 style attack tomorrow.
18:47Half this country says it's Israel.
18:49The other half of the country says it's Donald Trump.
18:52And, you know, some section of both says it didn't actually happen.
18:56Right. And you have this big food fight and it's like, OK, well, how are
18:59you going to get policy done?
19:01How are you going to deal with this very important issue if you have this
19:05type of cognitive chaos happening in the country?
19:13Right. And so for the first so the first thing I would do with as
19:17far as the government goes, it's like, OK.
19:19The government can, you know, through its through its its its resources and capabilities, they
19:26can go and they can try the best that they can to track and put
19:31a stop to the foreign.
19:33And the foreign influence stuff, if it's coming from Americans, OK, it's coming from Americans.
19:40We'll have to deal with it that way.
19:41Like, but for sure, top line.
19:43Yeah. The the chaos agents from abroad who are doing this to, you know, screw
19:49with with the American people's brains.
19:52That's got to go. And it can go.
19:54It's interesting because, you know, I said, are they using our freedom against us?
19:58They kind of are, because isn't the argument going to be, well, this is my
20:02freedom of speech. I can say whatever whatever I want.
20:05You know, isn't that the the way that Americans do it?
20:08And it's like, are we going to end up saying, well, no, you're not American.
20:12So you don't you're not, you know, privy to that.
20:16Yeah. No, I think we should.
20:19I just I'm telling you, that's where this argument is going to go.
20:22Like, everyone should be able to say everything because that's what America is based on.
20:28Yeah. Again, you know, it's I mean, these are the these are the conversations and
20:32the arguments that we used to have back in the, you know, in the 2000s.
20:36Right. When it came when it came to, you know, when it came to, you
20:43know, what the relationship between security and liberty and things like that.
20:48I think this is a lot easier because I'm like, OK, like, so so don't
20:53don't ban someone in Arkansas for saying something online.
20:58But, you know, you can sure as heck go after the people who are running
21:03bot farms out of Pakistan.
21:05Right. You know, I mean, think about think about what we're doing.
21:09We say, hey, this is the global this is the global town hall.
21:15And then we go and we allow it to be completely proliferated by, you know,
21:21by by, you know, bots and agents of influence.
21:24It's it's it's as if you have a town hall somewhere in a small town
21:29in in, you know, West Virginia or whatever.
21:32And it's a town of a thousand people.
21:34And at the town meeting that that month, someone decides to show up with 30
21:41,000 folks from Kenya. Yeah.
21:45And all of a sudden the conversation.
21:48about local issues is taken over by a bunch of people, you know, who live
21:54in Kenya, who have no relationship to anything, who are just talking and, you know,
21:59they they they should not be there.
22:01And we should not, you know, we should not pretend that they have a right
22:07to be there because it's I mean, frankly, it's I mean, I think it's an
22:10absolute misuse of of our understanding of of our rights and our liberties to say
22:17that, you know, that, you know, anybody could just bought farmers, bought farmers from Pakistan
22:23have just as much, you know, First Amendment, you know, as as as you or
22:29I. Yeah. But I think that would really go a long way in solving this
22:33issue. I really do. When could we expect to see viral libels published?
22:40Definitely this year. I want to do it as I want to do it as
22:44as as fast as possible.
22:46But it's it's it's huge and it keeps growing.
22:48And I was going to say, you're going to have to eventually like draw the
22:52line because you can make an encyclopedia of all the different viral libels.
22:58In a way, in a way, that's that's that's that's kind of how it started.
23:02It started as a book that would help debunk, let's say authoritatively debunk the most
23:08prominent 20 or 30 viral anti -Semitic conspiracy theories that are floating around on the
23:14American right today. And there's nothing else that's doing that that's specifically tailored to to
23:19to what's happening on the right.
23:21But as I started to do it, I started to realize that that it's actually
23:26bigger than that. And and the book is really about anti -Semitism as information warfare.
23:34And each one of the viral libels is really just like a front in or
23:40a skirmish, a battle in in in in this information war.
23:45And and the the let's say our our enemies have realized that anti -Semitism is
23:52a very potent tool. It's a potent weapon to be used.
23:58You know, it should be to no one's surprise that this is, you know, many
24:01thousands of years old at this point.
24:03And in modern parlance, it's at least 200 years old in in the way people
24:09are using it since since protocols of the elders of Zion.
24:12It's basically the same script over and over again in in, you know, it's old
24:16bottle, new or new bottle, old wine.
24:20Um, so so so, uh, unfortunately, it's very, uh, it's it's it's very au courant.
24:26Um, and I think it will be out.
24:29Yeah. Forever. Yeah. David, what are you most proud of in your life?
24:35It's it's it's hard because I feel like.
24:40Um, I feel like the things that I really wanted to do, I have not.
24:45Done yet. Um, if if if that makes if that makes sense.
24:50Yeah. Um, and, um, you know, I mean, what are the things I'm proud of?
24:55I'm I'm I'm proud that I had the the chutzpah to say, you know what,
25:01I'm going to go and be a jazz musician in New York for a while.
25:05And then I said, you know, I woke up one morning and I said, I
25:09need to be involved in in in, you know, in in in politics and national
25:14security. Um, and I did that and, um, I feel like when am I proud
25:22of what I mean, is it something to be proud of?
25:24You blaze your own path.
25:25That's something to be proud of.
25:26Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Look, I mean, for for, you know, it is it is what
25:30it is. And, uh, and, uh, you know, what I what I've been able to
25:34do in in in life and has been, you know, it's been a blessing.
25:39It's been great. Um, and it's, you know, I was kind of lucky to do
25:44what I've always wanted to do, which is, you know, I wake up one morning
25:49and I and it hits me and I just have to kind of follow that
25:53thing. Um, and, uh, I just I was just listening to, uh, to someone talking
25:58about how, um, for a lot of Jews after October 7th, they felt this.
26:05This thing, which was kind of, you know, kind of hard to explain, which is
26:09like, I don't know what I need to do, but I need to do something
26:12and, and whatever it is, it just like, it needs to be meaningful.
26:18It like it, it needs to, uh, it needs to be what the moment requires,
26:24if that makes sense. Yeah.
26:26And I felt that, um, I felt that right away after, after October 7th.
26:32And I kind of still feel that way.
26:35And I feel like, okay, whatever I'm going to do now, and I can do
26:38a lot of different things, I need, the most important thing is not self -aggrandizement.
26:43The most important thing is not, you know, how can I, uh, you know, how
26:47can I do a book and go on a book tour and become like a
26:52big personality and, and, you know, and, and, and go on all the podcasts and
26:56blah, blah, blah. Like, I honestly, I could not possibly care less about that.
27:01What I want to do is the book that the moment needs.
27:05Yeah. And, and if that's what, um, you know, and if I think about it,
27:11like I've always kind of done that.
27:13And, uh, you know, it's me.
27:14It's so huge to be.
27:15Out of. Like, that is a great answer.
27:17I mean, I don't think that you could give a better answer than that.
27:21All right. There you go.
27:23Okay. Give us a five -year -out prediction.
27:27And it could be about anything at all.
27:29Come on. You got lots of predictions.
27:31I hear these predictions all the time.
27:33Yeah. Yeah, I know. But they're usually too depressing to air.
27:36Oh, so we admit we're too depressing.
27:39On a podcast. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
27:40No, look, I mean, I see what I see coming down the pike is very,
27:47very dark on one hand.
27:53But I remember arguing with friends who used to see similar very, very dark things
27:59years ago. And I would say, look, they would always say, if we continue on
28:05the same trajectory, then like, okay, well, if we continue on the same trajectory, then
28:10is the same argument that the leftists make when they talk about climate.
28:14Right. You know, if we keep adding another, you know, if we keep mindlessly adding
28:20another couple of degrees every single year, you know, as if we're in a computer
28:25simulation, then of course, we're going to have a disaster.
28:27Yeah. But things don't work out that way for any number of reasons.
28:31That's not how it goes.
28:32Right. Right. And so, I mean, so I think it's really important to think about
28:38predictions that way and to realize that the only we can never predict the future.
28:44The only thing we can do is kind of think forward based on patterns that
28:54we already see. And, you know, so the most optimistic thing I've ever heard you
28:59say. Right. Right. I'm trying.
29:01So, no, but I, but I really, I really do believe this.
29:05And so, I mean, I think anytime anyone makes a prediction, it should, there should
29:09be an asterisk and it should say, you know, based on current, you know, based
29:14on current observable trends or patterns or something like that.
29:18Because we really don't know what, what would happen.
29:21I don't think anybody knew that Donald Trump would show up in 2013 or 2014.
29:27Yeah. No, for sure. That was, I did not know.
29:31Yeah. Yeah. That was, that was a shock.
29:33I mean, when he showed up in 2015, I was shocked.
29:35And even, even 2016. And he came back in 2024.
29:38I was pretty surprised. Right.
29:40No, no, no, no. Exactly.
29:43Exactly. So, so I think that, that should, that should temper people's, both their enthusiasms
29:51and their negativity. Yeah. You know, but.
29:55I'm going to remind you, I'm going to remind you of this on, on various
29:58group chats. No, no, please, please do.
30:00Please do, because I could use it.
30:02But, but the truth, but, but what I said earlier kind of still stands, which
30:06is the thing that I come back to all the time.
30:08I'm like, how do you get people to not be stupid?
30:12Yeah. How do you get people to say, okay.
30:15Yeah. Right. And, and I, I have to tell you one of the most disturbing
30:20phenomenon, phenomena, phenomenon of, that I've, that I've, that I've encountered.
30:28Well, I hit them both.
30:28So I know I got one or the other, is when people who know better,
30:34all of a sudden, like, it's like, there's a, it's like, there's a lobotomy.
30:40People who, you know, for example, people who know the history of how brutal warfare
30:48is throughout the centuries and the years, you know, people who've read all the books
30:52and studied and were smart about these things, one day wake up and they say
30:57things that are completely the opposite of, of reality.
31:00Yeah. And that's when, that's when, like, I scratch my head and I'm like, okay,
31:06this is not a, this is not like a change my mind about something issue.
31:11Like I've had things where it's like, okay, you know what?
31:14I, I didn't think about this other facet of the issue.
31:17Maybe I changed my mind.
31:19But it's not that this is like, in order to change my mind that way,
31:23I need to bleach my brain in, in certain respects.
31:26And that's a phenomenon that I really haven't seen before.
31:30And, and I don't think it's comparable to, you know, other types of, let's say,
31:35political evolutions. And, and I do think I came up with, I came up with
31:44a, with a little, you know, catchphrase, which is rapid onset elite right -wing media,
31:49social media retardation. It's good.
31:52And it doesn't, it, it rolls right off the top.
31:54Does it have an acronym?
31:55Yeah, yeah. No, no, I, it doesn't have an acronym yet.
31:59Um, but, uh, but you know, there's, there's, we have the lab going and there
32:03are tests for that. Um, but, uh, but, but I think it's true because it's
32:08something that I noticed. It's definitely a thing that I noticed, which is, um, you
32:14know, a lot of folks on the right, they got into their little bubble and
32:19their bubble is, uh, social media plus group chats.
32:23And now like we know, okay, everybody's in a group chat, but, um, it's also,
32:29you have to realize like, it's very easy to get radicalized while you're in a
32:32group chat because everyone kind of thinks the same thing.
32:35Everyone is sending, um, news items, uh, to the chat that confirm and reinforce the,
32:42you know, the, the potential.
32:43position and the next thing you know you feel like you're um you know you
32:48feel like you're you're you know you're under siege and and the um and the
32:52world is uh you know the sky is falling yeah and and i think i
32:56think many of us have been there um many many of us have been there
33:01i know i have have been in these things where it's like okay and then
33:05if you leave for a week or something like that or you put down the
33:10phone or something and you come back to it and you're like wait a minute
33:12i think some of these people like while they mean well and they're and they're
33:16decent people they may be a little bit out of touch and they may be
33:21catastrophizing a little bit yes who does that who is that for me who is
33:25that for me i i can't think of the name right now if you come
33:30up with a name i can't you know maybe i can tell you yes or
33:34no we're gonna take a quick break and be right back on the carol markowitz
33:37show run a business and not thinking about podcasting think again more americans listen to
33:44podcasts than ad -supported streaming music from spotify and pandora and as the number one
33:49podcaster iheart's twice as large as the next two combined so whatever your customers listen
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34:05us show you at iheartadvertising .com that's iheartadvertising .com you are a super interesting person
34:14and i can't wait to read your book leave us here with your best tip
34:18for my listeners on how they can improve their lives and let me know if
34:22you remember what you said the last time you were on in may 2024 do
34:26i remember i don't remember all right i'll tell you you said more people should
34:31have a personal relationship with art and the creative process yes yes yes all right
34:37i'm gonna stick with that or do you have a new one for us well
34:41well you know i'll i'll i'll i'll i'll stick with that and then add on
34:45another one which is um which is uh try to try to listen to music
34:52and be challenged or read a book and be challenged or see a movie and
34:57be challenged and and and and i think the way we think about entertainment um
35:03or the way we think about art as something that needs to provide entertainment and
35:08and and uh and sort of background noise escapism um is really is is is
35:15is is bad um because it it uh it sells short what art is capable
35:21of and what creativity is capable of and um and i think when people can
35:27be can be shocked and challenged and and and and really um you know instigated
35:35moved in some way moved in in in some way that uh by by art
35:41i think it's uh i think it's it's a really wonderful thing i mean now
35:44you have a phenomena and i look i'll i i'm i i do this too
35:49where it's the end of the day it's a hard day and there's nothing i
35:52wonder i just want to put on something mindless um i mean i have standards
35:56so it's not going to be mindless mindless but you know sometimes it's like okay
36:01i i don't feel like watching the the you know the uh you know the
36:07six hour silent russian film about no i feel like i always picture you watching
36:12the six hour silent russian film yeah yeah no i mean it's sometimes you just
36:17don't want to do that and and sometimes you just you know but i think
36:21i think most people now and their relationship with art or let's say creative you
36:29know the the creative uh you know endeavors um is is like that you know
36:35they just want something nice and easy and and kind of background stuff to not
36:38think about or yeah you know hey this is music that reminds me of my
36:42childhood that's great and that's it and and look that's essential and wonderful but i
36:47think there's there's the possibility for more and there's definitely the possibility of really um
36:54amazing you know i mean i don't want to say i don't want to necessarily
36:59say spiritual because that's a whole other like you know different kind of you know
37:04yeah it's a whole different category that means different things to different people but i'll
37:09say it's it's kind of um deeply meaningful in a way that uh that um
37:17you know really i think i think nothing nothing else is nothing else can be
37:21and uh you know and and frankly it's free so um you know especially with
37:28uh with how much is available on youtube like you know uh so uh and
37:33there are books there on pdf so so yeah so that's what i that's what
37:38i what i recommend and um love that challenge yourself through art music do it
37:44i love it he is david ruboy check out his upcoming book viral libels thank
37:49you so much for coming on david great to be here thank you