The Manosphere Report

0:01Joe Rogan Podcast, check it out.

0:03The Joe Rogan Experience. Train by day, Joe Rogan Podcast by night, all day.

0:13What's happening, bro? Good to see you, my friend.

0:14Good to be back, bro.

0:15Dustin Poirier, the light heavyweight.

0:19It's thick boy summer. You looking healthy, son.

0:21Yeah, like 190, man. You look good, man.

0:23I feel good, dude. It feels good to eat and not count carbohydrates and calories.

0:27Yeah, we were talking about that.

0:28Were you like still like a little part of you is like looks at meals

0:31and goes, oh. Well, I mean, for the last 20 years, I've been macro and,

0:36you know, I knew I had a fight coming up.

0:38Even if I didn't have a fight, I had to be in striking range from

0:40155. Right. So I was always looking at the back of every label, being real

0:44cautious of what I eat.

0:45It's like ingrained in my daughter now.

0:46When we go to Whole Foods, she'll grab something off the counter and say, dad,

0:49it only has three ingredients.

0:50Like she knows what's up.

0:52Well, it's good to think that way anyway.

0:54For sure. Especially with the ingredients.

0:56Yeah, that's the first thing she goes to.

0:58Like if she wants some chips, it only has five ingredients.

1:00That's like a thing for her when we're shopping.

1:04Yeah. Well, that's smart, man.

1:06That's cool. You're raising them right.

1:07I'm trying to, bro. I'm trying to put the stuff I learned in fighting, you

1:10know, all the years. Yeah.

1:11It's a good use. It is kind of crazy.

1:14I think it's the worst thing about fighting is the weight cutting.

1:18Can you imagine if everybody just, first of all, tell me if you agree, but

1:24I think the UFC needs way more weight classes.

1:25I do too. Way more.

1:27I do too. Because the gaps are so big.

1:31I mean, just if you look at boxing compared to mixed martial arts, the jumps

1:34in weight are so big from each weight class.

1:36But also, all the shows they're putting on, they'd have more titles, more belts, more

1:41big fights. But also, man, with that, there's going to be a lot of people

1:44trying to cut a little bit extra, trying to be double champ in every weight

1:47class. I think it does cause more confusion.

1:49Yeah, but that's better than the extreme weight cuts.

1:54The extreme weight cuts are terrible.

1:55You saw that dude a few, I guess it was about three events ago, who

2:00face -planted and got removed off the card.

2:02Yeah. That is crazy. You're getting someone to the brink of death 24 hours before

2:07they have an MMA fight, which is the most, if not the most dangerous sport,

2:12one of the most dangerous sports in the world.

2:14For sure. And you're doing something to your body to extremely weaken it 24 hours

2:18before you fight. It's bananas.

2:21Dude, I did it so many times.

2:22You preach it to the choir.

2:23I know. There's been so many times I've felt like that, like stand up too

2:27quick after a weight cut, and I'm like, you know, I might go down.

2:29Oh, dude. I mean, I can only imagine.

2:32When you see someone like Pereira that's cutting like 25 pounds and more, when he

2:36was 185, I mean, that guy was fighting inside the octagon at 225 and weighing

2:44in at 185 24 hours before.

2:47Right. That's crazy. And even when he's big, he's lean.

2:51You know, it's not like he's fluffy.

2:52Well, they say that when you're muscular, it's easier to cut weight.

2:58More water. It's water. Yeah.

2:59Yeah, which is counterintuitive. You see a fat guy, and you're like, oh, that guy

3:03can cut weight. But you really can't, because you can't deplenish your fat.

3:07Right. Not in a training camp's time, eight weeks, 10 weeks.

3:10You can't lose like 30 pounds of fat, but you can dehydrate.

3:14I said deplenish like it was a real word.

3:15You can dehydrate yourself. I don't think it is a word.

3:18Deplenish? Well, if you can replenish.

3:20Right, but no one says deplenish.

3:22Can you plenish? No, you say deplete, but I just threw it out there like

3:25it was real. I don't think deplenish is a word.

3:28Is that a word? Yeah.

3:30It is? Yeah. I don't think I've ever used it that way.

3:33Oh, okay. Nice, man. Nice.

3:35I got lucky. That was just luck.

3:38But I talked to Hunter about it, Hunter Campbell, and we're trying to figure out

3:43a way. Without, it has to be more weight classes.

3:47I mean, California instituted a bunch of different weight classes.

3:50I think they were doing it every 10 pounds.

3:54I think California also did like a percentage of your body weight.

3:57Like, I don't know, what was it, 15, 20 percent?

4:00You couldn't dehydrate more than that?

4:01That guy, Andy Foster, is on the ball.

4:03And I think that's good, you know?

4:05Yeah. 20 percent or whatever.

4:06Some kind of rule where guys aren't cutting 50 pounds, 40 pounds.

4:1020 percent is still crazy.

4:11Yeah, it's still crazy. It's a lot of weight.

4:13Yeah, you're right. 200 pounds, 40 pounds.

4:15I mean, it's a lot of weight.

4:16Well, that's another thing that freaks boxers out when I tell them that there's a

4:20weight limit at heavyweight. 265?

4:23That doesn't make any sense.

4:25I go, I agree. Why is there a weight limit for heavyweight?

4:29That's crazy. Dude, that gap, too.

4:32Like, 205, anything over that, you can be 210 to 265.

4:37That's crazy. Crazy. A 50 -pound gap that you, you know, but.

4:41Well, heavyweight in boxing, like, look, Mike Tyson, when he was in his prime, was

4:45only like 220, 215, 220.

4:48You know, that's where he, when he was dominating, that's where he kind of fell

4:52in that weight limit. I wouldn't, I think it would be a good idea, anything

4:55past like 230, 235, super heavyweight.

4:58Yeah. You know? Well, the difference in boxing, though, is the grappling.

5:02The grappling in MMA, the gap, if a guy gets on top of you, is

5:06immense. Yeah. If you got a, like, in Ghana, when he was in his prime,

5:09was weighing over, like, 300 pounds and then cutting down to 265.

5:14He was a 300 -pound natural.

5:17He's a guy who's, like, a knockdown power for sure, but grappling, like, if you

5:22get a big guy who's 265 and knows how to grapple very well, wrestled his

5:25whole life, they get in side control or half guard, you're not getting up.

5:29That's the end of the round.

5:30Yeah. Yeah. Also, if they did do a super heavy, the fights might be either

5:34awesome or just completely suck.

5:36Well, I think it should be, heavyweight should be unlimited, and then you'll find out.

5:41Yeah. Because, like, Cain Velasquez, no one's holding that dude down in his prime.

5:45Yeah. Even when he was 240.

5:47When he was 240 and he fought Lesnar, Lesnar was gigantic, but it didn't matter

5:51because the cardio that Cain had and the speed and his technique sort of, it...

5:57He was ahead of his time, man.

5:58He was ahead of his time.

5:59He was, like, a hybrid, can do everything, great cardio, good athlete, before MMA got

6:04to where it's at now.

6:05Yeah. The one fight that I always say that we missed is Cain and Fedor

6:09in their... Because they were both in their prime at the same time, and they

6:13never made that happen. When UFC absorbed the pride roster and stuff, it's crazy that

6:19Fedor never fought in the UFC at all, man.

6:21Well, they tried. The UFC tried.

6:24But Fedor's management were a bunch of very dangerous dudes.

6:27Yeah, you don't mess around with those guys.

6:29Yeah, man. There was tense negotiations, and they wanted a percentage of the promotion.

6:34They wanted a lot more than just a big purse.

6:36Yeah, UFC's not playing that game.

6:38No. They were like, look, we'll give you a very healthy purse.

6:43We'll bring Fedor over here.

6:44But the problem was when they purchased Pride, they thought they were getting everyone's contracts,

6:48but the contracts were all bullshit.

6:50Well, some guys came over on crazy money contracts.

6:53I think Dan Henderson might have been one.

6:55I was a young fighter one time, and I was making—this might have been 2013

7:01or something, 2014, I don't know.

7:04And they came to give me my check.

7:06This was back in the day before they wired.

7:07They used to give us checks on fight night.

7:09And they were going through the checks, and I saw Dan's, and I saw the

7:13number, and I couldn't believe it.

7:14This is before people posting online, fighter pay and all that, and I saw the

7:17numbers he was making. I was like, no way.

7:20Guy's rich. Does it make you angry?

7:23Nah, nah, because the future, myself looking back or looking forward when guys are going

7:28to be fighting for belts and stuff, the money they're going to make in five

7:31years, I'm going to be that guy.

7:33Like, damn, you know, I got out too early or—you know how it is.

7:36The next generation always gets more.

7:38Right. Mike Brown tells me that all the time.

7:40Dude, I was fighting for the belt in WEC, defending it, making this.

7:43You guys on the prelims are making more than I was making, you know?

7:46Yeah, there's a weird—that sort of discussion about fighter pay.

7:52You know, I've always been of the opinion that fighters should be making more money,

7:55period. Because, like, the same way I feel about, like, the way I run my

8:00comedy club, the comedians make 80 % of the money.

8:02Because I feel like that's who you're paying to see.

8:06You're paying to see them.

8:07We make plenty of money, like, with drinks and 20 % of the ticket sales.

8:11It's like it's enough. Like, it should be—if we had a comedy club and there's

8:17no comedians, no one's coming, right?

8:19No one's going to pay just to sit there and buy drinks.

8:22Like, the whole idea is they're paying to see someone's work.

8:25If you fight, that's what people are paying to see.

8:29They're paying to see fighters.

8:30Without the fighters, there's no show.

8:31Without the comedians, there's no show.

8:33I understand. But I think the big thing with the discussion of fighter pay is

8:36the percentages. When you look at other major organizations like NFL, NBA, the percentages are

8:41so, so different. Yeah, it's not good.

8:44But, dude, at the end of the day, I'm all for fighter pay, too.

8:47I've been fighting my whole life.

8:48But you sign the contract.

8:50You agree. This is how business is done.

8:52Push for—try to get more of what you're worth.

8:54You know, you can't sign a contract and complain.

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11:27Terms apply. That's true, too, but also, it's like, the reality of MMA is if

11:34you're not in the UFC, people are not paying attention.

11:37That's unfortunate, but it's reality.

11:39You know, and I think there's some really good fighters that fight in the PFL

11:43and really good fighters that fight in one, but they don't, no one knows who

11:48they are other than the hardcore dudes.

11:50Right. Yeah, I got a buddy, Johnny Ebelin, who is the Bellator champion.

11:54Yeah, he's awesome. I've been training with him since he started MMA when he got

11:57out of college wrestling and stuff.

11:58Like, right now, he can go to the UFC and give the top five guys

12:01a run for their money.

12:02Absolutely. No doubt in my mind.

12:03Absolutely. He's only getting better.

12:04Yeah. Just because you fight in the UFC, that's a great organization to fight for,

12:08the biggest, the most known worldwide, but, dude, there's great fighters everywhere.

12:13You know, like, on the mats at American Top Team, there's a dozen guys you've

12:16never heard of that can make a run in the UFC right now.

12:19That's what I heard is the nightmare about training at American Top Team.

12:23Because it's a revolving door.

12:24Man, there's like a hundred professional fighters on the mats at all times, different camps,

12:29they have dorms, so guys from Russia, guys from all over the world are just

12:32in, you never know who's going to be there, and it's tough rounds, you know,

12:36every practice is tough. Well, not only that, but I've heard there's like guys coming

12:39in from Russia, and they'll throw oblique kicks at your knees, and you're like, hey,

12:43man, like, what are we doing here?

12:46We're getting ready for fights, we're not in a fight.

12:48Right, yeah, yeah. Like, some of these guys are trying to make their name off

12:51of a named guy, and so you have to be very selective in who you

12:55spar with. For sure, and that's any, not just American Top Team, especially guys who

12:58are established, like, if I go to any gym here in Austin and it's open

13:02mat or something, I have a target on my back.

13:04Of course. You know, that's everywhere.

13:05Of course. But those guys, man, like at a big gym like American Top Team

13:09with the knowledge and the good coaches, those guys get weeded out.

13:11That's good. You know, you won't stay there long if you're doing that stuff.

13:14The problem is if you're one of the guys that has to weed them out,

13:17like, you find out early on this dude's, you know, throwing wheel kicks.

13:20Yeah, yeah. Full blast. And it happens all the time.

13:23Oh, yeah. Yeah. Well, this, you know, makes sense.

13:26I mean, you're from Dagestan or Chechnya or whatever, and you come to America.

13:30Yeah. It's like, this is your big chance.

13:31And I do like to train hard to prepare for a fight.

13:34You've got to fight, but, you know, you've got to take care of each other.

13:36We're professionals. We're feeding our family with this.

13:38Yeah. And injury can ruin everything.

13:41Well, there's so many fighters that get concussions in training.

13:44And then, you know, they get chinny when they get into the fight.

13:47It happens all the time.

13:48Yeah. Especially the early days.

13:50There was a lot of guys who got hit.

13:52Me. Yeah. Like, the early days, we didn't really have classes that were organized, man.

13:59It was just sparring and choking each other out.

14:01And with four -ounce glove sparring.

14:03Like, we didn't know. We didn't know.

14:04Isn't that crazy? Like, 2006, dude, we used to beat each other up every day.

14:09That was MMA training. And then it wasn't these super gyms where everything was under

14:13one roof. I would drive to a boxing gym, drive another 45 minutes to a

14:16jiu -jitsu gym. You know, it was put everything together on fight night, but you

14:21would train everywhere else because there wasn't mixed martial arts gyms back then, really.

14:25I would drive to a kickboxing gym, boxing gym, wrestling, jiu -jitsu.

14:29It was all separate. Well, also, you were in a place that didn't have, like,

14:33a high volume of MMA fighters in your state.

14:37Right. Back then, like, Rich Clemente, Melvin Gallard were the big guys from Louisiana, you

14:45know. Right. Then Tim Crater came.

14:47Crazy Tim. Crazy Tim got on the Ultimate Fighter.

14:49And then I went to his gym once he got out of the TV show.

14:53And me and him trained for years and years.

14:55He still has a gym in Lafayette, Louisiana.

14:57I loved him. I've known Tim since I first worked out with him in, like,

15:0198 at Machado's. Well, he was in maybe the Navy, so he was in California,

15:06stationed there, and I think that's when he started jiu -jitsu.

15:08He was Louisiana's first black belt.

15:10Oh, wow. Yeah. Yeah, I knew him from that.

15:14And then he was fighting, and he was fighting in the UFC.

15:17He was always around the MMA scene.

15:19Him and Eve Edwards were good friends.

15:20They opened the gym maybe in Houston or something.

15:23He was cornering Eve in Pride, and then I met Eve through Tim.

15:26And it's just, it's a big family, man.

15:27Eve is a guy that I always say, there was a time where he was

15:31the best 155 -pounder on earth.

15:33When he beat Josh Thompson.

15:34Yes. He's the uncrowned champion.

15:36He should have been the uncrowned champion.

15:37There wasn't a belt. I know.

15:39Isn't that nuts? Isn't that nuts?

15:40That's so hard for people to understand, like, how crazy it is.

15:44Like, being through the lineage of thug jitsu, man, it sucks to say, like, that

15:48he can't say he was a champion, but I know he was.

15:50He was. He was. He was the best in the world.

15:52He was the best. At one point in time, he was the best.

15:55He lived out here before he moved to LA, so before I moved to South

15:59Florida to train an American top team, I used to drive six hours here and

16:01stay with Eve. Eve, he always had wrestlers down here.

16:04This was, like, beginning of my WEC days.

16:07I would drive down here and train with Eve, man.

16:09He was another guy who was ahead back in the day.

16:12Yes. Because he comes from NHB, like, hook and shoot.

16:15Mm -hmm. The crazy days.

16:17Yes. You know? Yes. Yes.

16:18And he was doing it all.

16:19Good jiu -jitsu. Good kickboxing.

16:21He fell in love with wrestling.

16:23I was such a big fan of Eve, man.

16:24He invented some moves, too.

16:27You remember that one thing that he would do where guys were on a single

16:30and he hit a dude with a flying knee, a jumping knee?

16:32That was a... Dude, I'm an MMA historian, bro.

16:35Yeah. That was Elite XC, I believe, maybe.

16:37Was it? And, you know, that was Edson Berto.

16:43Was it? I think Andre Berto's brother.

16:45The boxer. Oh, wow. Yeah.

16:49Wow. But that... He had a single leg.

16:51He was hopping and then jumped up and out cold.

16:54Yeah, it was crazy. It is Elite XC.

16:56Look at you, bro. I mean...

16:57Pray that again. Look at this.

16:58This move is brilliant. That's brilliant.

17:01That's Edson Berto. And I believe Andre and Edson's dad was a mixed martial artist.

17:07Oh, wow. That's such a slick move.

17:12Yeah, he's so crafty, man.

17:13Oh, yeah. Well, that head kick that he landed on Josh Thompson from the middle

17:17of that wild, crazy scramble, jumping roundhouse kick to the head.

17:20Dude, and they still play it every opener of the UFC?

17:23Yeah. They still play it.

17:23As they should. I mean, it was incredible.

17:25Absolutely. Yeah. I gotta give credit to Eve.

17:28He was one of the real pioneers.

17:32For sure. Way before this was cool.

17:34Yeah. Way before. Yeah. But to be stuck at, like, 155, like, that was his

17:39weight class, and then there's no title?

17:41Yeah. They were the two best guys in the world at that time, him and

17:45Josh Thompson. Yeah. Josh Thompson's another one who doesn't get the credit he deserves.

17:49That's it. Boom. Like, what a slick move, man.

17:52But that was Eve. Very creative, you know?

17:55Yeah. Man, Josh Thompson, like, peak Josh Thompson for me, what was it?

18:01Strike Force when him and Gilbert Melendez, maybe, were going back and forth.

18:04Oh, my goodness. Yeah. They might have had a trilogy.

18:07It might have been two or three fights, but every fight was amazing.

18:09Gilbert Melendez. Yeah. Another guy who doesn't get the credit he deserves.

18:12Dude, legend. Legend, man. Legend.

18:14All those guys, they were the groundbreakers.

18:17You know, a lot of these young kids coming up, you bring up Gilbert Melendez,

18:20they're like, who? Like, bro, you need to know your history.

18:23You need to know how this thing got started.

18:25Go watch. Even more newer stuff, go watch him and Diego Sanchez.

18:29Yeah, right? Slug it out.

18:30Diego Sanchez is another guy that I say is a tweener, right?

18:34Because... Welterweight? Yeah. I mean, he really wasn't really a welterweight.

18:39And, you know, and lightweight, I mean, he tried to get down to 45 for

18:43a while, but that was just brutal.

18:45He was killing himself getting down to 45.

18:47I remember seeing him making weight for 45.

18:49I'm like, oh, this ain't good.

18:51This ain't going to last long.

18:51No. Yeah. But if, like, there was a 165 -pound weight class, Diego Sanchez might

18:56have been the champion of the world.

18:58Right. Honestly, man, like, when I was competing, if they had a 65, I might

19:02have entertained it. 70's just too big of a gap because I trained with 70s

19:05in the UFC, and I know they're 200 -something pounds.

19:07And my heaviest, I was, like, 182, 183, maybe.

19:11They're just too big, man.

19:12Well, you got guys like Rumble Johnson.

19:14When Rumble was alive, Rumble got up to 230 pounds in between.

19:19No, he was huge, man.

19:21Huge. Huge. I can't believe he made 170.

19:24He was living in South Florida, so I see him every now and then.

19:27He was huge. This episode is brought to you by Uber Eats.

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20:08saving today. He was the ultimate, like, weight cutter.

20:11Like, he cut more weight than anybody.

20:13When he was fighting at 170, it was bananas.

20:16Like, how are you doing this?

20:17I remember running into him at a hotel.

20:19I was like, bro, how big are you?

20:21And he was laughing. He's like, I'm 230 right now.

20:23And muscle. Jacked. Like a heavyweight.

20:26And he went up to heavyweight.

20:26He beat Arlovsky, which is crazy.

20:29He was a legit heavyweight.

20:30Yeah. Dude, Andre's still fighting.

20:32I know. And winning. The bare knuckle champion.

20:35Winning. He's the bare knuckle champion.

20:37Like, how durable is that motherfucker?

20:39For the years and the miles that that guy has, I have to say, like,

20:42taking shots, receiving damage, I don't know if he takes it like he, obviously he

20:46doesn't take it like he used to.

20:48But his mobility and his movement for all the wars he's had and the years

20:51he's been fighting, when I watch him in the gym, dude, he's light on his

20:54feet, flexible. Yeah. He moves so well.

20:57And enthusiasm. Still has enthusiasm for the game.

21:00Yeah. Which is crazy. He loves it.

21:02He clearly loves it. I mean, he was, what, UFC heavyweight champion in 2005?

21:07Yeah. Was it like 2005?

21:102005 or 2006, I think he beat Tim Sylvia, maybe?

21:14When he was the champ, first of all, that motherfucker had a piston for a

21:18right hand. Yeah. I remember when he KO'd Paul Bluntello.

21:20Oh, my God. That's a Texas guy.

21:23Paul Bluntello. Another dude. I believe he's from Galveston area or Corpus Christi or something.

21:30He's from Texas. Well, if you think Arlowski from 2005, and he was a top

21:3710 heavyweight as recently as like 2023.

21:41Well, when he came back to the UFC after that long gap, he went on

21:44a streak. He had a bunch of great fights.

21:46I think he knocked out Travis Brown.

21:47Beat Travis Brown, which is crazy.

21:50Did he fight Bigfoot? Did him and Bigfoot?

21:51UFC 51 is when he won.

21:542005. February 5th, 2005. That is bananas, man.

21:58That really is bananas. Man, back in the day, Tim Sylvia used to train at

22:02ATT. When I first got there, he was the most uncoordinated, unathletic guy.

22:07I couldn't believe he was a UFC champion, man.

22:09I know. He was like.

22:10Goofy. Pigeon -toed. But down to fight.

22:13Oh, down to fight. Down to fight.

22:14Yeah, for sure pigeon -toed.

22:15His knees were weird. Yeah.

22:17Yeah, they went in. I tried to talk to a trainer about that, and he

22:21goes, that's learned. Like, you can correct that.

22:24I was like, are you sure?

22:24What, the knee? Yeah. The knees bowed in like that was.

22:29He said, that's a learned, you could correct that.

22:32I was like, really? How do you, what?

22:35I never heard of that.

22:36Yeah. I didn't understand how you.

22:38It seems like something they would do maybe when you're born, surgery, like reposition the

22:42bones or something, no? Well, I don't know if it is.

22:44I don't know. I mean, I'd have to, I don't want to speak out of

22:47turn. I'd have to bring in that guy and have him explain to me how

22:51you could correct that. Yeah.

22:52But he's like, that's something that could be corrected.

22:54That's like learned behavior. It's just from being so big.

22:57But dude, watching him with his toes pointed out, doing the ladder drills and stuff,

23:01you know, the ladders on the mat, in and out, like, it was so crazy.

23:04Well, big guys have their toes pointed out like that.

23:07Like, Jelly Roll went from 500 pounds and he's down to the, he's in the

23:12low 200s now, which is crazy.

23:14Yeah. I saw pictures of him, looks completely different.

23:16Bro, he's lost like 300 pounds.

23:18And he did it the right way.

23:20Yeah. No Ozempic, just like diet, exercise, runs all the time.

23:24But he has a problem when he walks, his toes are pointed out and he's

23:28trying to correct it. He's trying to be aware of it.

23:31Yeah. When he runs, he runs the right way.

23:34Like, feet pointed forward. You see it too on the bigger guy's shoes.

23:38The corners of the shoes are always flat.

23:40Like, flat tires on the outside.

23:41Yeah. They just walk that way, man.

23:42Well, you got to think, you have so much weight, you got to, you kind

23:46of, kind of stretch out to kind of balance yourself.

23:49Yeah. But I always point to Tim Sylvia when he knocked out Rico.

23:53Rico Rodriguez, that, that Tim Sylvia was a beast, dude.

23:59That was back when all the Mexican supplements were allowed.

24:03There was a lot of dudes who were very juicy.

24:06Oh, yeah. And Tim had giant traps and huge fucking shoulders.

24:10And I remember he struggled to get down to 265 for that fight.

24:15Yeah. Back in the day with the juice was just free flowing, man.

24:18Free flowing. I just worked the UFC desk with Bisping in Vegas when Max and

24:22Charles fought. And we started talking about the same thing we're talking about now.

24:25And he was like, oh, I fought Vito.

24:27I fought them all in the height of TRT.

24:29Right. You know, he's fought a bunch of guys.

24:31Well, that was legal juice, which was bananas.

24:33I mean, Alistair. Oh, yeah.

24:36That was the juiciest fight of all time.

24:37Alistair versus Brock was the juiciest fight of all time.

24:43Yeah. I recently watched the Mark Hunt documentary, and he's trying to, like, push back

24:49and do a lawsuit against the UFC for all the juicing and stuff of it.

24:53I mean it's such a yeah that's a tough that's a tough road because how

25:00much can the UFC do it's and it's on the athletic commission as well right

25:04wouldn't the lawsuit be against the state not the UFC I think his position is

25:09that the UFC knew that um but how would they know that Brock was juicing

25:14I don't know this is before random drug tests I believe yes it was before

25:18so that I feel like that would fall on the state athletic commission maybe it

25:22wasn't before because he did get popped you know but it wasn't random they weren't

25:27no no show up in camp no no that the back in the day you

25:31would get tested on fight night right you know they wouldn't knock at your door

25:33well it was super clear that Brock was doing something it was super clear like

25:39he was like in his late 30s he's built like a fucking like the side

25:44of a barn I mean there's a bunch of guys back then yeah a bunch

25:47of guys yeah but it wasn't frown it was okay everybody was doing it it

25:51wasn't it wasn't right because it was illegal but it was like when you have

25:57fight day drug tests that's an intelligence test that's all that is right that's whether

26:04or not you have good people in your corner right and whether or not you

26:07have a chemist it's going to take this amount of weeks to get out or

26:10this many days to get out of your system well there were certain camps that

26:13would employ scientists and these scientists the crooks are always going to be ahead you

26:17know they're always going to be coming up with something new trying to stay ahead

26:20of the curve and get away with stuff and I still think they're probably doing

26:23it man yeah there's probably something that we don't know right now and it's going

26:28to come out in the future that's why they hold on to the drug tests

26:31for a prolonged period of time yeah they ask you your consent you have to

26:35do an extra signature if you let them test it or use it for what

26:39happens if you say no I don't know I never said no I always give

26:42it to them well it's good for you because you're clean yeah I competed my

26:45whole career clean man nothing nothing I was even scared of certain creatine like I

26:49got the trusted by sport on everything because I was so scared to be one

26:52of those guys because every time I see it tainted supplement yeah sure buddy but

26:57you know sure tainted supplement but it could be you know I don't want to

27:00be one of those guys well for sure there are tainted supplements that's a real

27:04thing and you know I know that for a fact because as one of the

27:07owners of on it when we were doing um when we're uh doing third -party

27:13testing of some of our supplements we would find stuff in there that's not supposed

27:17to be in there and so we'd have to contact the distributor the manufacturer and

27:21the people that like mixed our stuff so the way like on it would work

27:25is like alpha brain has a bunch of different ingredients that enhance your you know

27:31your mental focus and clarity and we would give them the very specific numbers of

27:37what's supposed to be in each batch yeah and then we would third -party test

27:41we find a bunch of shit in there that's not supposed to be in there

27:43and it's because you know if you're getting it done overseas they have these vats

27:47where they mix all the stuff in and they don't even clean the vats right

27:51right they dump it out and then they dump the new stuff in there without

27:54cleaning it there's residue in there and then also the level of drug testing how

27:58high these things can sense anything right even if there's a tiny bit they'll find

28:02it right with john jones right it was picograms we got introduced to the term

28:06picograms like a grain of salt in a swimming pool they can find they say

28:09yeah so the testing is legit and i'm glad you know we're fighting we're kneeing

28:13each other in the face if we were running track or something exactly but we're

28:18fighting you can get seriously injured man so exactly i've always been against doping but

28:21i'm retired now joe i'm retired now now you can get through yeah i love

28:26what guys get well cowboy got real jacked too afterwards but then he talked about

28:30coming back and then he got off of everything that's the thing though like always

28:34back in the day all the trt guys like if you change your body's natural

28:38production of testosterone with exogenous testosterone you have to be on it for the rest

28:42of your life well you don't have to because there's things called hcg and hcg

28:47and clomiphene can restart your body's production of testosterone yeah yeah yeah because i know

28:53your testicles will stop producing once you introduce foreign testosterone right well for for a

28:59period of time especially when you're a young man you can restart it but you

29:03know my production i've been on trt since i was like late 30s like it's

29:09not coming back yeah yeah i'm shooting blanks on pow pow but you're good but

29:14two of my daughters were born while i was on trt so it does work

29:19i just had a limited amount i had soldiers just one fucking special ops guy

29:23the only one was marching but he got through black ops yeah so if you

29:29think about like all of the time where people were allowed to dope it is

29:35a giant percentage of the history of mma like pride the further you go back

29:39for sure for sure for sure pride it was juicy as juice yeah like that

29:43like ensign anyway when he was on the podcast told me that in the contract

29:47it said in all capital letters we do not test for steroids we aren't looking

29:52i've heard i've heard other people say that as well we aren't looking thumbs up

29:56green light let's go shoot up the juice come fight we'll pay you cash get

30:00out of here they wanted you to juice they wanted you to fight better which

30:03is like it becomes a spectacle but man people can get seriously injured you can

30:07especially but then also the thing is like does it make you more durable i

30:12think it does prevent you i think it does man because just one that right

30:17off the top of my head when bigfoot silver was trt or whatever he was

30:21on right he was so durable so him and mark hunt had those crazy fights

30:24but when he got off he started getting knocked out right you know but there's

30:28also the switch there's something that happens when you've had a certain amount of concussions

30:33where another another guy that comes to mind remember eric silva yeah welterweight was huge

30:37dude whenever they started doing the usada stuff he was getting knocked out and just

30:42wasn't himself he didn't look the same he melted i wonder what the like medical

30:46reason for that is but i i think it has something to do with confidence

30:49and like self -belief with the testosterone they just i think that's a big part

30:53of it it's definitely a part of it but also there's a part of it

30:56your vitality you're just more durable i mean when you're jacked up on testosterone you're

31:01just more fucking durable yeah everything about you is more cool alistair's a great example

31:06of that like animal mode man you're just like yeah man Dude, I think Alistair

31:11Overeem, when he was Uber -ing, I think that is the best argument for TRT

31:14ever. Looked like a superhero.

31:17Bro, when he was in K -1, and he was shelling up, how are you

31:20getting through that? How are you getting through that shell?

31:22Remember how small he was, though, back in K -1?

31:24He was like a 205 or 185.

31:25Well, no, and pride. Pride.

31:27Pride when he was fighting at light heavyweight, when Chuck knocked him out.

31:30Liddell knocked him out when he was a legit light heavyweight, and he was skinny.

31:33Yeah. Young and skinny. He just decided, time to get big.

31:38Yeah, look at him back then, when he fought Shogun.

31:40Still pretty jacked, though. Oh, yeah, man.

31:42He's a big dude. I mean, he was shredded.

31:44He was shredded, but he was a shredded light heavyweight.

31:47You know, I think he's a vegan now.

31:50Dude, look at that. Come on, son.

31:53Come on, son. That's ribeyes.

31:54That ain't vegan right there.

31:55Go back to that other one.

31:56That's what I'm talking about.

31:57I mean, that's what a UFC heavyweight champion's supposed to look like.

32:00Hell yeah. Come on, son.

32:02I mean, also. Put that on the White House card.

32:04Not just that, but highly skilled.

32:07For sure. He wasn't just jacked.

32:09He was highly. I mean, there's a K -1 Grand Prix champion.

32:14I mean, that dude was the cream of the crop at kickboxing.

32:18He was the cream of the crop in MMA.

32:20And he even won the Abu Dhabi European Trials as a pure grappler.

32:25Yeah, people don't know that about Alistair.

32:27His grappling is high level.

32:28Very. He had one of the best guillotines in the game.

32:30Like, Alistair in his prime, when he went over and he fought Brett Cooper over

32:36in, was it Burt Cooper?

32:38Who did he fucking fight in Strikeforce?

32:43Brett Rogers. Brett Rogers. That's right.

32:45Sorry. I'm thinking of the heavyweight boxer, Burt Cooper.

32:48Burt Cooper. Who fought, he had some crazy wars with Evander, Evander Holyfield.

32:56I think Evander's down in South Florida too now.

32:59I don't remember Cooper. He was a really, he was a tank.

33:03He was a tank. He was a super jack guy.

33:05But Brett Rogers, when he fought Alistair, Alistair like immediately hit him with a low

33:10kick and you could tell he was like, what is this?

33:13Like it was a different kind of low kick because you're dealing with the tree

33:17trunks of Alistair with perfect technique.

33:20And that guy was as good a kickboxer as has ever entered into MMA.

33:25And when he was saucy, he was a problem.

33:29Yeah. He was a real fucking problem.

33:31Speaking of kickboxers from that era coming to MMA, dude, didn't Gokan Saki come over?

33:36Oh yeah. I thought he was going to do, you know, so much better, but

33:39he's, he was older. He was older and he was at a time where it's

33:44like, you know, he had had so many fights in K1, you know, he had,

33:50he had so many wars and he fought Khalil when, you know, Khalil's fast as

33:55fuck. And I mean, good kickboxer.

33:57Real good kickboxer. Tie style.

33:58Khalil cracked him in the first round and knocked him out.

34:01Yeah. Yeah. Which was a big fight for Khalil because, you know, Gokan was the

34:05Turkish Tyson, was coming over here.

34:08You know, it was one of those guys like Mirko Krokop was like an elite

34:11kickboxer who's entering into MMA and everybody always gets excited about that.

34:15Obviously Pereira is the best example of that.

34:17Yeah. But he was a guy I knew.

34:20I told everybody, I was like, that guy's going to be a nightmare for everybody

34:24because there's something about him, man.

34:25I don't know what the hell is going on with his bone structure, his DNA,

34:29and his intelligence. Like, he figures shit out that other people didn't, like the way

34:34he threw that low kick, like the way he throws that calf kick with zero

34:38tail, no turning of the hips.

34:41Like, he fucks up guys' calves better than anybody on the planet.

34:44We had like a huge rush of the calf kick.

34:46I saw it for like a year and a half, two years.

34:48Everybody was doing it. Now it's kind of fading away, I've noticed that.

34:51It is, but not with him.

34:53It's not with elite guys, guys that are really good at it.

34:56It does so much damage, man, so quickly.

34:58Crazy. And it's so much, it's less commitment.

35:00So you're not giving, you don't have to turn your hips over as much so

35:03wrestlers aren't grabbing singles as easy.

35:04Well, I remember your fight with Jim Miller.

35:06It's just like, oh, dude, tore me up.

35:07Yeah, that was one of the first examples of calf kicks being really fucking dangerous.

35:12And I've never felt it before.

35:13And I'm a southpaw, so to land good calf kicks, you'd have to fight another

35:17southpaw, right? Right. And that doesn't happen too often, especially with one who's throwing those.

35:21So I didn't know what kind of black magic he was doing, bro.

35:23I was like, I got a flat tire.

35:26What is going on? What is this?

35:27I know. You know? Isn't it crazy that it took that long for people to

35:31figure that out? Ben Henderson was a guy doing it early.

35:35But it wasn't that effective for some reason.

35:37Yeah. He was doing it, but it wasn't having the devastating damage.

35:41I'm trying to think of who's the first guy to really, Edson Barbosa would do

35:43it every now and then.

35:45Mm -hmm. Trying to think of somebody who really brought it over.

35:47Bro, it's made its way into kickboxing now.

35:50It's - Because they were saying, like, the Muay Thai guys are not susceptible to

35:53calf kicks, and everybody was saying that.

35:55And I was like, that doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

35:57They are light on their front foot, so that front foot is - They are,

36:00but there's times where they have to plant, like when they're throwing a right kick.

36:04There's a guy named Yuki Yoza.

36:06Yuki Yoza, who fights for one.

36:08He's a Kyokushin guy. And he is fucking everybody up with calf kicks.

36:12Yeah. He fights high guard, tight inside, and again, no pivot of the hips.

36:20He's essentially throwing his calf kick almost like he's kicking a soccer ball straight up

36:24the middle. That's the way I like to do it as well.

36:26Mm -hmm. Just clip the top of the calf.

36:28There's no commitment. You don't have to pivot your hips or plant to turn.

36:31You can just snap it out like a jab.

36:32Yeah. Well, a great example of the changing of technique was you in that Conor

36:39fight. Yeah, calf over and over and over.

36:42And it was also southpaw versus southpaw.

36:44Same thing. You just destroyed that calf.

36:46Yeah. And you could tell he didn't know what to do because as good as

36:50he was and as many fights as he had, two -division world champion, he hadn't

36:55been calf kick. Right. Which is a crazy transition when you see the history of

37:00the sport. That is one of the clear differentiation.

37:05That's another word that's fake.

37:06That's the clear line in the sand where the techniques changed.

37:12Yeah. And it's one of those things like before it happened to me, I saw

37:15it and I was like, ah, it might be uncomfortable.

37:17But until it happens, then you have a different respect for it.

37:20So Conor probably learned a lot that fight, man.

37:21Oh, for sure. For real.

37:23The calf kicks are for real.

37:24Well, it's fucked that it's just one shot.

37:26That's what's crazy about it.

37:27Because a thigh kick, like you can get a hard thigh kick and your leg

37:31goes dead for a couple seconds, but it comes back.

37:34Yeah, a calf. Whereas calves don't really come back that quick.

37:37They explained it to me at the hospital after the Jim Miller thing.

37:39Apparently your calf doesn't have the chambers for the fluid to drain, so that's why

37:43it gets compartment. Oh, compartment.

37:45That's why it's so painful, because you can't, like, go out through your, the swelling

37:48can't go out through your whole leg.

37:50Like, so it sits in one pocket and fills up, and it's just uncomfortable.

37:53It can stop nerves. This episode is brought to you by SimpliSafe.

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39:21Do you ever see what happened to Austin Hubbard?

39:23Dude, that's what they wanted to do.

39:25After the Jim Miller fight, they wanted to cut me at the—I was like, no

39:28way. No way. Fillet you to release the pressure.

39:32Well, another guy, Uriah Faber, when he fought Jose Aldo, his leg blew up like

39:37a balloon. Yeah. Apparently, if it gets that bad, compartment syndrome, and the swelling's bad

39:42enough for long enough, you can lose function of your ankle and foot.

39:45Yeah. Which is crazy, right?

39:47Right, right. Well, Uriah was one of the first guys to implement going into—why can't

39:55I think of it? The fucking chamber, oxygen chamber.

39:59Hyperbaric. Hyperbaric. What's wrong with me today?

40:02I'm making up fake words.

40:04Can't come up with things that I know.

40:05But he was using the hyperbaric, like, exclusively to recover from that and documenting it.

40:12And I was like, oh, that's interesting.

40:13A lot of good brain benefits for hyperbaric.

40:15Oh, yeah. I don't have one.

40:16I've done it before, but it's never been like a routine thing.

40:19Well, you have to have access to it where you can do it a lot.

40:22And also the tints, the zip -up tints at home.

40:24Not as strong. Yeah. You need a solid— You know, you need like one of

40:27those propane tank ones, those big, thick, walled ones.

40:30The glass, like it's really good high pressure.

40:32Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then, you know, you've got to be careful in those things.

40:36You can't—no sparks. Yeah, dude.

40:38I saw a story that a kid was in one.

40:40You saw that? That was a couple years ago.

40:41Horrible. Yeah. Horrible story. Yeah.

40:45But hyperbaric is awesome for recovery.

40:47It's also—it lengthens—there's a protocol that developed—one of the universities in Israel developed it where

40:54you do 60 sessions over 90 days.

40:58And it lengthens your telomeres that's commensurate with, I think it's like a 20 -year

41:04difference in your biological age.

41:06It's nuts. It's super effective.

41:08Like when you get a lot of oxygen into your system like that, it just

41:12helps everything recover. For sure.

41:14Like if you have an aura ring or a whoop strap and you go into

41:17one of those things, it shows you.

41:18Yeah. It's like, oh, you have an amazing recovery day.

41:22Yeah, man. The metrics we can track now with all the wearable devices, it's pretty

41:25awesome, dude. Well, it gets you to understand—like I think you can get a little

41:29addicted to those things. For sure.

41:31So when I was competing, I stopped using them because every day wasn't ready.

41:35Need to rest. Red, red, red every day.

41:37So when I retired, I got back to it.

41:39Now I'm using them. But like when you're training for a fight, you can't— Isn't

41:43that interesting? I'm not taking two days off.

41:44I need to train. And the fight's coming up.

41:45Like if I'm in the red zone, I still need to train.

41:48I know. Isn't that interesting?

41:49Like there's—a wearable device would tell you you're not supposed to train, but yet you

41:54know in order to reach MMA, peak physical condition, you have to push when you're

42:00not ready so that your body's forced to recover quicker.

42:02I know this guy's training.

42:03That's why I got rid of it.

42:04During camp, I don't use it.

42:06Or didn't use it. Well, it's weird because like what if you listened to it?

42:10Like some people say—like Terrence Crawford was talking about like there's times where he wanted

42:16to push or his coaches told him not to, and then he realized they were

42:19right. Yeah, maturing through fighting, man, pulling back got easier as I got older.

42:27When I was a younger fighter, I didn't want to take any time off.

42:29I needed to be as many reps, as much time on the mats as possible.

42:32But as I got to like mid -30s, 36, I was like, you know, this

42:36is—I got to take days off.

42:38Complete days. Complete days. Not just an easy day or a technique day.

42:41I just need to be out of the gym.

42:42Just relax. Yeah, reset my mind to where I want to be there.

42:45Just hard for fighters because you operate on momentum of the conditioning and the training

42:50and the discipline. It's like you're in there.

42:52And then to have a day where you're not, you feel like you're slipping backwards.

42:56Right. And you show up to fight week with that momentum.

42:58Like I did everything I could.

43:00I bust my ass every day.

43:01Like it just gives you so much energy and so much confidence going into fight

43:06week. You've turned over every stone.

43:07Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, the worst thing, though, is seeing a fighter fight flat because

43:12you know they're over -trained.

43:13Yeah. And the one thing that I always point to is when Tim Kennedy fought

43:17Kelvin Gastelum and he had gone through two solid camps in a row.

43:21So he went through one camp, peaked, got ready for the fight, and then the

43:25fight got canceled and then went right back into camp to train for Gastelum and

43:30didn't give himself the chance to recover.

43:32And, you know, he was too tough.

43:34Yeah. Too tough, too disciplined, and his body broke down.

43:37Redlining that engine over and over and over.

43:39I mean, we just saw it with Mirab, I think.

43:40You know, not that taking anything away from Jan, but, you know, you stay that

43:44busy. Those kind of fights, those training camps, I mean, it's hard to do.

43:48That's what makes things like Jon Jones, Khabib, so impressive to me, man.

43:52To get on top and stay on top that long, you know.

43:55Yeah. I know. It's nuts.

43:57There's so few guys that have been able to do that.

43:59Especially in MMA. Too many variables.

44:01Too many ways to slip on a banana peel, get caught in something, you know.

44:04I know. I kind of love that Khabib went out on top.

44:07And never came back. Respect.

44:09That's awesome. And they offered him a lot of fucking money to come back.

44:13He's like, nope. Yeah. Nope.

44:15Good for him, man. Yeah.

44:16Good for him. Yeah. That's the way to do it.

44:18And then you go out, all your faculties, everything's fine, undefeated, go down a legend.

44:23Right. Yeah. Like, I think Floyd should have did it, you know, like that.

44:27Now he's fucking fighting Mike Tyson, dude.

44:30Come on, man. I know.

44:31Well, there was some rumors around that Floyd was going to have a rematch with

44:35Connor, which is crazy. But I think Connor would probably do it, especially if there

44:40weren't any drug testing involved.

44:42I wonder if he's going to come back for sure.

44:44Yeah. But, man, to heal from an injury like he had, you probably need a

44:48bunch of stuff to, I don't know the ins and outs of that, but you

44:51probably need some help to heal.

44:53He definitely needed some help to heal.

44:54The problem is, once you get used to that help, and you enjoy it.

44:58Yeah. I'm getting used to the help.

45:00Yeah. I know. That's what I thought about Cowboy when he got jacked, and then

45:04he was like, he's going to, and he slimmed back down again.

45:06He said he was going to fight again, but I think he might have abandoned

45:09that. I got hooked up with Brigham and Ways to Well.

45:12They did all my blood when I retired and got me.

45:15I turned down no testosterone for me, so I'm not on any testosterone.

45:18I just don't want to mess up my natural production.

45:20Because mine wasn't high, but it wasn't low.

45:22I'm just scared to mess with it, you know?

45:23Yeah, you don't need it, and it's peptides can do a lot for you.

45:28Yeah, I'm on a bunch of peptides.

45:29Yeah, peptides are the way to go.

45:31And I feel great. Honestly, I wish I could have been on this shit when

45:34I was fighting, man. I know.

45:36You know, especially like the growth hormone releasing stuff.

45:40Like Tessa Morlin. Exactly. Like I could have pushed hard every day, man.

45:45As I got older, it got harder, man.

45:47I know, and all it does is help your body recover.

45:50It's not like it gives you some sort of a performance -enhancing boost.

45:53I know it definitely helps with like fat mobilization and stuff like that, but just

45:59being able to push hard every day is huge in fighting, man.

46:02But just BPC -157, which offers no performance -enhancing, but would help you heal soft

46:07tissue injuries. Because you're getting injured.

46:10You're just getting small injuries every day training.

46:13Every time you get leg kicked, every time you get punched in the stomach.

46:16Arm barred, shoulder lock. Everything.

46:18Everything. Your joints are always messed up.

46:20Always. Yeah. Always. And if you wanted fighters to perform better, something that would allow

46:25them to heal better is only good.

46:27And it's not going to make you run faster.

46:30It's not going to make you jump higher.

46:31It's not going to make you an Uber -eam.

46:33We're not talking about that.

46:34And I'm not even sure if that's banned.

46:36I haven't checked. It is?

46:38BBC -157 is banned. Wow.

46:39Yeah. That's unfortunate. Yeah. Creatine.

46:42Protein powders. That's the same stuff.

46:44You just recover better. I don't understand why.

46:47Creatine is not banned. Thank God.

46:48But creatine in the 1990s was thought of the same way as steroids.

46:52Right. Yeah. Yeah. I remember.

46:54People thought like creatine is cheating.

46:55Oh, my God. You're taking creatine.

46:57They literally put it in the same category as steroids.

46:59And then they realized, oh, it's actually a part of food.

47:01It's great for your brain.

47:02It's actually good for you.

47:02Great for everything. Yeah. I just talked my wife into starting creatine.

47:07Women need it more than men, I was reading.

47:09Right. I read that, too.

47:10So my wife's just starting.

47:11Yeah. I think the key is to make sure you're hydrated, too, and to make

47:15sure you're not taking too much of it, and make sure you get your blood

47:18checked, and so you're not putting a lot of pressure on your kidneys.

47:21Yeah. But dehydration and kidneys, that is one of the big things that happens to

47:26a lot of fighters that cut a lot of weight.

47:27They start getting kidney stones.

47:29I mean, Jose Aldo dealt with that.

47:32DC famously got pulled out of the Olympics.

47:34Oh, yeah. Yeah. Because he was having kidney failure.

47:37Yeah. Yeah. Your kidneys, man, they don't like you being drained out like that.

47:42I've had a few weight cuts where I felt pain in my back, and I

47:44think that's kidneys. A hundred percent, man.

47:47It's kidney shots. Didn't happen often, but I've definitely had it.

47:51Tightness. It feels kind of like cramping in a weird place you never had before

47:54in your back. Isn't that spooky?

47:55You're drying out your organs.

47:56And then fighting for your life.

47:58Crazy. 24 hours. It was nice, though, when I started making it to the top

48:01of the cards, co -main event, main event, because then you have like 30 -something

48:04hours to rehydrate. If you're fighting early prelims in Vegas, two or three in the

48:08afternoon, you know, it's not too long, especially back in the day when weigh -ins

48:13were at 5 or 6 p .m.

48:14There wasn't a morning in ceremonial.

48:17The real weigh -ins were at 5, and you were going to fight at 2

48:19the next day. Yeah, those were nuts.

48:22That was crazy. Yeah. That was crazy when guys would like shuffle to the scale

48:26for the real weigh -in, and you'd see them all like a skeleton.

48:30And you're facing off with your opponent trying to be tough.

48:32I know. Like both dying.

48:33Well, I always remember Jose Aldo versus Conor.

48:37Conor looked like he was one of the walking dead.

48:40Yeah. He looked like a zombie.

48:41He was so skinny. His face bones.

48:44Yeah. See if you can find that.

48:45And he was also crazy.

48:47Like, ah! Yeah. Like flexing.

48:50He's always crazy. Hyped up with no body fat, no water, just completely dehydrated.

48:58Like, look at that. Look at that.

48:59The eyes sunken in. That is nuts.

49:02That guy weighed 145, and he probably weighed 170, or at least 165 when he

49:09got into the actual octagon that day.

49:11If he does come back, I wonder what he's going to come back at.

49:14Lightweight or welter. Well, the real key is if.

49:17If. I mean, he's had a lot of opportunities, and I don't know.

49:20I thought the Chandler fight was a layup for him.

49:23That's the fight. A great matchup for him.

49:25Great fight technically. It's a great fight stylistically.

49:28It's a great fight age -wise.

49:30Chandler's got to be, what, 39 now?

49:33He's up there, 38 or 39, yeah.

49:34I mean, and then there's the hype of the ultimate fighter.

49:38True. But it's just a layup for Conor.

49:40Chandler's hittable, covers distance, not that technically, you know, huge movements.

49:45Right. You jump in, you get carried out.

49:47Conor's a sniper, man. I just think that's a great matchup for him.

49:49It's also a great matchup for Chandler, because.

49:51He doesn't get tired. And he gets that, you know, because he sat out for

49:54two years waiting on Conor.

49:56It's also like, remember him with Oliveira?

49:58Even in the fucking third round, that dude is carrying Oliveira up and throwing him

50:03through the air and body slamming him while he's on his back.

50:05Like the dude, he has incredible endurance and incredible discipline.

50:10He's always fit. And that's been Conor's Achilles heel.

50:13It's that Conor, he's so explosive and so fast that if you're sprinting in that

50:18first round, guaranteed you're not going to have that same kind of energy in the

50:21fifth round. Yeah, but some guys are just designed like that.

50:24You know, you saw Taron Woodley is a guy who has a huge explosion, but

50:29they don't necessarily keep that for 25 minutes.

50:32But on the opposite side of that, you've got a guy like Nate Diaz who

50:35will keep that same pace from round one to five.

50:37Round 30. Yeah. Or a Hector Lombard out of a cannon, you know, and then

50:42slow down. Just the way muscles and fibers are connected, I don't know what does

50:47that to a human. Well, the only guys that figured out how to fight with

50:51all that bulk and just is like Yoel Romero.

50:54He fought very smart. It was just like calm.

50:58Still fighting. Still fighting. Dude, still fighting.

51:00Jacked. 50 years old. Jacked.

51:02More jacked than ever. Yeah.

51:0448 years old, 49 years old with abs, looking like a fucking super athlete.

51:09I think he's doing bare knuckle maybe.

51:11Yeah, he did bare knuckle.

51:12He did dirty boxing. There's a fight where he had in dirty boxing where he's

51:18touching the dude up and then out of nowhere he just leaps up into the

51:22air. He does like a vertical.

51:23He's like a five -foot vertical.

51:25Yeah. Lands on his feet and just starts putting on a dude.

51:28He's like, I'm tired of this.

51:29Let me show you what I can really do.

51:30I've had fun. I'm playing with the food.

51:32I've had fun. He's a crazy – he's been on the mats a bunch at

51:35American Top Team as well.

51:36And just a freak athlete, man.

51:39Freak. He's the freak of all freaks.

51:41Just a freak athlete. Yeah.

51:42I mean, he came out of that Cuban program.

51:43They build them different over there.

51:45Yeah, they build them with science.

51:46Yeah. Yeah. But he also figured out how to pace himself.

51:51You know, he figured out how to, like, explode out of nowhere but not explode

51:55the entire time. Like, he had this casual – almost – he would lull you

51:59into a false sense of security and then just pounce on you.

52:02Right. Which is why. The knee he hit with Weidman with?

52:05Yes. Dude, that was – A perfect example.

52:08Perfect example. Yeah. Because you get used to this kind of pace.

52:11And then – You get into the rhythm and then you just break it up.

52:14But also, he didn't fight, like – obviously, he's a wrestler.

52:17He didn't wrestle too, too hard and really gas himself out.

52:20He fought smart to do what he's good at.

52:22Explode. Rarely used his wrestling in MMA, which is so crazy.

52:26Yeah. It's really crazy if you think about how good of a wrestler he was.

52:30Right. Because he was one of the best wrestlers to ever compete in MMA.

52:32I mean, that dude was elite as a wrestler.

52:35And in MMA, he's just starching people.

52:37Yeah. When Luke Rockhold starched Luke, like, that was crazy.

52:43Luke's another guy still fighting, I think.

52:46I think he might be done now.

52:48You know, when he got knocked out by Darren Till in the boxing, I think

52:52that might be it. I think that might be it.

52:54And Darren Till's got a resurgence, man.

52:57As a boxer, he looks fucking fantastic.

52:59I saw the highlights of that, but I haven't seen a whole lot.

53:02Bro, he looks real good.

53:04He looks real good. But he's always been a good striker.

53:06Very good striker. And his Achilles heel has been his knees.

53:09You know, he's had some serious knee problems and it really impeded him from being

53:14able to train hard. He wasn't the best grappler in the world.

53:17And so that was always his problem.

53:19But as a striker, I mean, that guy was, like, very, very good.

53:23And you're seeing him now in boxing.

53:25Like, he's making a real run.

53:27I think it's very interesting because if you watch him box Rockhold and you realize,

53:32like, Rockhold's a really good striker.

53:33But against Darren Till, he looked like he had no business in there.

53:37That's something I would like to do, man, box.

53:39Still? I always wanted to have a couple before I've, you know, but I'm still

53:43under contract. Even though I'm retired, I still have a contract with the UFC.

53:46Do you think the UFC would let you out?

53:48Or do they have Zufa boxing now?

53:49Dude, trust me, I already pitched it to them.

53:51Did you? Me and Nate Diaz, Zufa boxing, let's go.

53:54Let's go. 170, whatever, 168, super middleweight, let's do it.

53:57They don't want any crossover.

53:58What? I think Zufa wants to be taken as a serious— Do they hate money?

54:02They must hate money. Do they hate money?

54:03They hate money. Why do they hate money?

54:05I don't know. They want to be taken by the boxing world serious.

54:08And I think if you open that door of an MMA guy fighting under Zufa

54:12boxing, every guy on the roster, every girl on the roster is going to want

54:14to do the same. It just becomes a mess, I think.

54:18I don't know about that.

54:20Yeah? I don't think it's a mess.

54:21I think there are some really fun MMA boxing matchups you can make.

54:24Fuck yes. Fuck yes. Especially when guys get older and you don't want to go

54:28through the training camp with wrestling and leg kicks and all that shit.

54:32That's the thing. Thinking about a boxing training camp, dude, with no grappling, no wrestling,

54:38just run, condition, and box, it would be smooth sailing.

54:42I love it. Isn't it funny?

54:43I'm on the beach, man.

54:44As tough as boxing is, for you, you're like, oh, this is going to be

54:47so nice. I only have to box.

54:48That's great. Yeah. Honestly, man, in training camp, those are my favorite days.

54:52Striking, sparring is my favorite days.

54:54Like the wrestling classes, two -hour mako on Monday.

54:56It's like brutal, bro. Well, it would be great for you because you've always had

55:00great hands. Like for you, that's a perfect carry.

55:03Well, I started boxing before mixed martial arts.

55:07That would be a perfect way for you to get some other fights in.

55:11I don't understand Zufa. Yeah.

55:13I would just love to lace them up and box professionally once.

55:16I know they want to redo boxing, and I know they want to like, and

55:21I think there's probably some real merit there.

55:23Obviously, what the Saudis have done with Riyadh's season has been amazing.

55:27You know, making matchups that no one can make.

55:30I'm a big Conor Bench fan too, man.

55:32I'm excited to see him fight in Zufa.

55:34And the guy he's fighting is from New Orleans.

55:36Like I know the guy.

55:36Like, you know, it's fun.

55:38It is exciting. And it will definitely, I think they will elevate boxing.

55:42And Dana is throwing all of his cards into that.

55:45So I'm sure it's going to work.

55:47Yeah, I'm glad we're seeing more boxing, Zufa boxing, and less power slap on my

55:51feed whenever I go to online stuff, you know.

55:53Yeah, I'm not a big fan.

55:54I've never been to one, but man, it's just fucking not my jam.

55:58Yeah. When I fought my retirement in New Orleans, Mike Brown went to the power

56:03slap they had there, and he said it was awesome in person.

56:06Oh, sure. It's awesome to watch someone get slapped, but, like, I'm not interested.

56:11I watch it on my fucking phone every now and then.

56:14I mean, the highlights are good enough.

56:15You see the knockouts and the crazy stuff.

56:17It's great TikTok content. For sure.

56:20You know, you watch someone get slapped and they go forward and their head hits

56:23the desk and they fall backwards.

56:25But it's like, it's a concussion.

56:27And you can't, there's no defense.

56:30There's no, like, you can't flinch.

56:32It's a penalty if you do.

56:33That's crazy. That don't make any sense to me.

56:35I don't get it. But I think they've missed out on the opportunity to have

56:40a Muay Thai league. That's what I think.

56:43America just doesn't buy into it that big.

56:45I don't think that's true.

56:46No? No. No, I just think they haven't served it correctly.

56:48Well, I mean, one is doing it on Amazon and, you know.

56:51But it's like, who's watching Amazon?

56:52That's the problem. You have a show on Amazon.

56:55Like, I know guys who've released comedy specials on Amazon.

56:57Like, good luck finding it.

56:59Nobody cares. That's just the reality of this platform.

57:02I mean, look, Amazon is a phenomenal platform for buying stuff.

57:06I love it for buying things.

57:08Oh, dude. I use it all the time.

57:09Every week. It's great for buying books, audio books.

57:12It's great for buying products.

57:13But for watching content, it's kind of a mess.

57:16They had a couple big shows, like The Marvelous Mrs.

57:19Maisel and The Terminalist. Those are great shows.

57:22And those brought a lot of people over there.

57:24But, I mean, you know how big The Terminalist would have been if it was

57:26on Netflix? As big as it was on Amazon?

57:29More people watch Netflix. For sure.

57:31Than are ever going to watch anything on Amazon.

57:34That's why what Jake's doing with the Netflix and bringing boxing, MMA there.

57:37Like, it's big, man. It's big.

57:39So many people are going to be watching this.

57:42100%. But I think that if one was somewhere else, I think it would have

57:46been. There you go. You're on the way here today.

57:48What? Yeah. Yeah, that got announced this morning.

57:51An MMA fight? Yeah, it's the third fight on that card now.

57:53That's the Rousey card, yeah.

57:54Oh, wow. Interesting. That's very interesting.

58:00That's very interesting. That's a good fight.

58:03Dude, you said a lot of people don't go to Amazon to watch TV?

58:06I just went down a rabbit hole for weeks because I have a newborn at

58:09home. So I did the night shift, and I ran out of shit to watch

58:12on Netflix and on Hulu.

58:14How do you run out of shit to watch on Netflix?

58:16Dude, staying up till 4 a .m.

58:17every night with a baby boy is like, hours of documentaries, hours of stuff.

58:22I switched over to Amazon, and it was like a whole new world, man.

58:25Well, there's a lot on there.

58:26It's just they don't have the same viewers.

58:29Like, our podcast is on Amazon.

58:31The numbers that we get from Amazon compared to everywhere else is so small.

58:35It's just the reality of the way they've sort of marketed it.

58:38And Amazon Prime Video just doesn't have the audience that everything else does.

58:42Right. And it's such a big platform.

58:43You'd think it would be crossover from...

58:45I think it's a mistake on their part because the product side is so big.

58:51And, like, Amazon for buying stuff is so big that it's almost like an afterthought.

58:55And they put some money in it, but not the same sort of focus.

58:59Also, the interface, when I've gone to it, is a little weird.

59:03It's hard to find things.

59:05It's not as simple, like, the interface on Netflix is, like, the algorithm's great.

59:10It's really good at recommending you things.

59:12It knows what you like.

59:13It shows you things. It's easy to find things.

59:16For sure. Amazon's, like, a little tricky.

59:18You go there, and you're like, what?

59:19But, see, the one FC thing faces the same problem that PFL has.

59:24Like, look, PFL is on ESPN+.

59:27You would imagine PFL would get the same sort of audience that the UFC got,

59:32but it doesn't. No, of course not.

59:33Because the UFC brand is, like, NFL.

59:37The machine. It's just. Yeah.

59:39They own that space. But the fights on 1FC are fucking amazing.

59:44Like, especially the Muay Thai fights.

59:47With the small gloves? Oh, my God, man.

59:49And I was trying to pitch this to Dana.

59:52So I started sending Dana.

59:54He goes, send me some.

59:55So I started sending him all these, like, high -level Muay Thai fights and high

1:00:01-level kickboxing fights. And they're fucking phenomenal.

1:00:03Look, he didn't like the Charles Oliveira, this Max Holloway -Charles Oliveira fight.

1:00:11He didn't like it. Like, the BMF fight.

1:00:13He's like, the fight wasn't that good.

1:00:15I was like, I thought it was a great fight.

1:00:16It was impressive if you were a fan of technique and a fan of how

1:00:19hard it is to do that to somebody like Max.

1:00:21Like, super impressive. And I was a fan of Max's defense.

1:00:25I mean, Oliveira was on his back in the first round.

1:00:27A lot of people would have got finished there.

1:00:29First minute and a half, I think.

1:00:30Yes. You know, dry. Dry, right.

1:00:32I got finished there. Yeah, I mean.

1:00:36I think Oliveira's one of the greatest submission artists that ever competed in the sport.

1:00:40Yeah. If not the best.

1:00:41Numbers, I mean, numbers prove it.

1:00:42Yeah. And against elite guys like you and like Justin.

1:00:46And like, he's fucking good.

1:00:46And then Gamrot. Dude, Gamrot is, I trained with him for years.

1:00:50He's a wrestler, but his grappling is incredible, man.

1:00:53Oh, he got tied up in knots with Oliveira.

1:00:55Yeah. Oliveira's a nightmare. I knew it could happen, but I didn't think it would

1:00:58be that. I was stunned, too.

1:01:00I was like, God, he's good.

1:01:01He's so good on the ground.

1:01:03So, like, props to Max for surviving.

1:01:05But if Data didn't like it, so I started sending him.

1:01:08For the, I mean, when you have the title, the BMF, like, you want to

1:01:12see some violence. I understand, but it's still just a fight.

1:01:15You can't fight outside of your comfort zone.

1:01:18Just because a BMF belt's on the line.

1:01:19You can't go out swinging for the fences.

1:01:20Right. But. I get it.

1:01:22I get what you're saying.

1:01:23But, I mean, on the feet, I think Oliveira was winning on the feet, too.

1:01:26Dude, he hurt Max in the first.

1:01:27I think he hurt him in the fifth.

1:01:28Well, he definitely hurt him in the fifth when they did the point down on

1:01:31the ground thing. Yeah. And then he cracked him and rocked him.

1:01:34Oliveira's fucking good, man. He is, man.

1:01:36He's so good. He's just known.

1:01:37We put the label on the grappler because he's finished so many guys and so

1:01:39many bonuses. But he can strike, man.

1:01:41He's good everywhere. Like with the Chandler fight.

1:01:43He almost gets finished in the first round.

1:01:45Comes back and hits him with a clean left hook in the second.

1:01:47Yeah. He's fucking good, man.

1:01:49Yeah, knocked him out. Even when I fought him, he did a good job of

1:01:52picking where the fight happened.

1:01:54He wouldn't fight me in boxing range.

1:01:55It was either all the way in clinch or out where he was keeping my

1:01:58body, staying long. Kicking range or clinching range is kind of where he fought me.

1:02:02The times I did have success was in the boxing range, but he didn't let

1:02:05that happen. Well, it just shows you how fucking good Ilya Duporia is.

1:02:09Fuck. God damn that dude.

1:02:11Dude, I love Justin. I'm a fan.

1:02:13I don't like this matchup for him.

1:02:15Well, you know what? I mean, Justin knows what he's getting into, and it's hard

1:02:19to count that. dude out he's such an animal yeah he can land the shot

1:02:23but and it's in the white house who knows who knows what's gonna happen but

1:02:27that dude has the touch of death yeah he has the touch of death and

1:02:31he's not a big guy i've never seen him in person but i was talking

1:02:33to somebody recently and they said nice five seven you know he's small man he's

1:02:38not big yeah i mean there's a photo of me standing next to him when

1:02:41we did the podcast we're standing next to you he's much smaller than me and

1:02:45bro he puts people into the shadow realm yeah it's just technique and confidence his

1:02:51confidence is crazy he had a he had a victory party for the olivera fight

1:02:57the night before drinking wine i saw i don't think he was drinking wine i

1:03:00think he was drinking water the night before but he has drank wine in weigh

1:03:03-ins yeah when he's getting ready to weigh in uh or what is the weight

1:03:06cut he's he only did that for two camps he told me though he said

1:03:10it's too much i was like fucking hung over the next day like what am

1:03:14i doing right and you're about to get your brain beat up you're dehydrating your

1:03:16drink come on well i think he's dehydrating himself and he said the wine actually

1:03:20helps you get dehydrated yeah alcohol definitely does yeah which is but it's nobody does

1:03:24that nobody drinks wine for the weigh -ins that's crazy and like i'm so i'm

1:03:30not drinking anything i'm so depleted by that time you know i know and he's

1:03:32getting hammered lucky and winning world championships well it was only two fights he did

1:03:38that for so it became like something where people are pretending he does it every

1:03:41weigh -in he's got all these young fighters out there in the world drinking on

1:03:44one day i'm gonna be like the champ man yeah but he's he's he's crazy

1:03:51talented for sure in a weird way whatever it is he has it it he

1:03:55has it he's got it in his mind he's got in his technique his grappling's

1:03:58when i watched a video of him grappling with mirab and he was all over

1:04:02mirab and that's crazy that's what they say his grappling's just as good if not

1:04:06better than his his stand -up that's where he started i've never seen him grapple

1:04:10though well he finished um bryce mitchell on the ground and uh he's he's finished

1:04:17a few people on the ground he's he's like he does clearly have phenomenal submission

1:04:22ability what are you showing me here what is this him he says he's done

1:04:26it for a long time yeah you can see his face is already sucked in

1:04:29a little bit he said that when he was on the podcast though that he

1:04:32only did it twice three years ago that's hilarious look he's all tipsy and drunk

1:04:37look i tell this to young fighters there's no right i mean obviously don't smoke

1:04:41crack before a fight there's no right or wrong way everybody's different whatever makes you

1:04:46feel comfortable to perform and compete like everybody's different there's if there was a cookie

1:04:50cutter perfect way to work everybody would do it well you're carlos brontes yeah exactly

1:04:55smoking cigarettes like the day of the fight he's sitting there smoking marlboro reds darts

1:05:00who was the boxer fucking everybody up back in the day oh yeah mayorga mayorga

1:05:06carter mayorga yes yes he would smoke cigarettes yeah drinking fucking uh carlos drinking whiskey

1:05:12smoking cigs like he's like i'm always gonna party and always gonna fuck people up

1:05:16respect yeah i mean he's gonna fight is he fighting jack de la madalena is

1:05:22that the fight i'm not sure i believe that's the fight in perth that is

1:05:25a very good fight yeah a tough one for jack to come back to man

1:05:29i was in i was in uh msg when when islam took the belt from

1:05:33him dude complete domination well that's another guy like how good is that guy and

1:05:37ilio was talking about fighting him too you know the size difference would be so

1:05:40big so big islam is huge he's huge he's too big for 55 and then

1:05:46you see him at 170 like how did you ever make 55 right right because

1:05:51he's so dominant at 170 yeah hunter uh from the ufc i was in his

1:05:56office not too long ago and i they keep record of all the weights fight

1:05:59night they don't release them all but they keep it and we were talking about

1:06:02the islam fight when i fought islam and he was telling me his weight i

1:06:04was like that's what did he weigh 192 or something i think the day of

1:06:09the fight i think so yeah that's something 190 191 something around there that's great

1:06:14i was 176 that's great but it looks like it in the cage like whenever

1:06:19i know i looked across under those spotlights and they had veins in his shoulders

1:06:23and shit i'm like fuck this guy's huge the ones where i'm like how gregory

1:06:27rodriguez is the one where i'm like how yeah how how how are you 185

1:06:32how you're 6 '3 you're built like a greek god how how do you ever

1:06:37weigh 185 how is that even possible whenever i interview him i'm like how right

1:06:42because i'm standing next to you and i'm like that doesn't make any sense like

1:06:47this doesn't you're not 185 pound guy you're huge like in his prime when luke

1:06:52rocco was a champion he's huge man huge huge huge 185 yeah yo i romero

1:06:57is the the best example like how how are you 185 build like an anvil

1:07:01dude solid all the way through when he came in to do the podcast and

1:07:04joey diaz translated for him he was like 230 yeah just like his neck starts

1:07:09at the top of his head just just a tank and shredded always no no

1:07:14jiggle dude shredded always veins in his abs like crazy yeah and he was he

1:07:18was talking about the cuban program i'll never forget it was like talking about like

1:07:22how they have the the lower level guys only eat twice a day but the

1:07:27the top level guys eat three times a day and so everybody is competing literally

1:07:33for food crazy you say that in angola prison in louisiana there's a boxing league

1:07:39if you're on the boxing league and get accepted into it you get more meals

1:07:43and stuff so the same thing these these prisoners are like trying their best to

1:07:46stay on this boxing league you get more meals more time more free time wow

1:07:50they actually fight other prisons man whoa i was thinking this would be a great

1:07:54documentary to come out with that would be a great documentary and it's cctv to

1:07:58the other prisons so other prisons can watch in their cells whoa they bus them

1:08:03to angola other prisons in louisiana they box they put out a schedule every year

1:08:07if you ever want to go to one it's invite only but i i'd rather

1:08:11watch at home it's bro it feels it feels illegal dude it feels illegal well

1:08:16it might not be legal in other states yeah it might not be legal in

1:08:19louisiana i might be getting in trouble for saying this is anybody any good hell

1:08:24yeah yeah you think bernard hawkins came out of jail i mean the guy obviously

1:08:28tyson beat him but the black rhino was an angola boxing prisoner who got out

1:08:33or pardoned to fight mike really yeah yeah yeah wow that's crazy i did not

1:08:41know that so do they have a program where they have coaches and they have

1:08:45to do they have equipment and everything wow and different according to the schedule they'll

1:08:51bus them to the other prisons to fight and it's played through all the prisons

1:08:54in louisiana man you find a highly skilled guy who's in that program and they

1:08:59let them go nothing to lose the refs they're legitimate refs but they let the

1:09:03fights go man what kind of nutrition are they getting though they're getting prison food

1:09:06yeah or they get any better food prison food but they get more meals they

1:09:10get to eat extra still terrible food right yeah angola's a crazy crazy prison man

1:09:16grow all the food there make all the clothes there they grow their food there

1:09:21yeah so maybe self -sustaining not bad self -sustaining i'm sure they ship a bunch

1:09:24of stuff in but they do have crops and it's such a big operation that

1:09:28uh the guards and the staff live on the prison grounds there's a elementary school

1:09:33really yeah there's the worker the guards kids and stuff go to school on the

1:09:38grounds it's it's wild man oh that can't be good it's wild every october they

1:09:42have a the rodeo there article about that boxing association from 2011 some photos and

1:09:49an interview with some people i think that were part of it well you want

1:09:52to focus you know women weakened legs ain't no women in there dog hell nah

1:09:58that's crazy yeah serious business man i did not know that that's nuts man yeah

1:10:05how come no one's done a documentary on this or how do they i know

1:10:08well bhop was a prison boxer in philly right yeah yeah yeah this would be

1:10:13a great documentary man interesting yeah bernard learned i mean i mean learned like real

1:10:19discipline in prison and also learned that he never wants to go back no you

1:10:23know which is as important and i think angola's like maximum security so you don't

1:10:30go there if you have less than like 25 years or something so these guys

1:10:34are in there for a long time just trying to find things to do and

1:10:36boxing eating extra getting more free time why wouldn't you do it also get in

1:10:41shape keeps you focused you have something to concentrate on other than the fact that

1:10:45you're in jail yeah yeah it was wild bro they set up a ring like

1:10:49in a cafeteria i went there once to watch it it was it was insane

1:10:52it felt like i was doing something wrong it felt like i was doing something

1:10:57wrong were the guys good fuck yeah some of them were good man wow really

1:11:01good wow fuck of what that's interesting they pardoned that guy who's there's titles too

1:11:07they have belts the black rhino cliff clifford maybe uh atn yes yes that's right

1:11:13that's so he was in prison boxing in angola and he fought tyson wow no

1:11:18shit yeah i mean why not man at least it gives them something to focus

1:11:22on the idea is like oh you're gonna make a more dangerous felon bro they're

1:11:26dangerous yeah they're danger they're in there for murder what do you think what do

1:11:30you think they're in there for armed robbery murder like let them fight right doing

1:11:34life like right exactly like also we try to pretend that that's not going to

1:11:39improve the quality of their life and improve them as a human being like doing

1:11:43something difficult even if it's difficult and violent like fighting will make you a better

1:11:48human being for sure make you tougher smarter more disciplined more focused also release all

1:11:53the aggression there so you don't have aggression in like regular altercations nearly as much

1:11:59yeah that's where i'm at right now like leaving fighting in the rear view is

1:12:04like what do i do with my life now days along dude i've been traveling

1:12:08so much twice a week maybe you know if i'm home on friday i do

1:12:12open match jiu -jitsu a couple kickboxing classes if i can make it but i've

1:12:16just been traveling so much man why have you been traveling so much sponsors appearances

1:12:20cornering buddies like just saying yes to everything that i couldn't before you know right

1:12:26i'm more busy now i think because before i would shut everything down like i

1:12:30gotta get ready for this fight i have to focus on this no i can't

1:12:33do anything black out these dates now it's like you're really good on the desk

1:12:36man i enjoy man i really do tell yeah so i mean i think that's

1:12:41one of the best things that the ufc does with uh former fighters is they

1:12:45give them this opportunity to do stuff on the desk i think that's huge i

1:12:49i hope they keep bringing me i just signed a contract for the year um

1:12:52when it was espn i was kind of doing like independence contractor stuff they would

1:12:57ask me i would say yes but i'm on contract with ufc for a year

1:13:00so hopefully they keep bringing me man i all the people behind the scenes just

1:13:03being around the event that i've you know i've fought at for so long it

1:13:07just makes me feel good yeah and i get nervous because it's live tv you

1:13:10can't fuck up uh -huh you know live tv is different we all have that

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1:13:43season of the secret lives of mormon wives is now streaming on hulu and hulu

1:13:47on disney plus mom talk has just been blowing up whitney and jen are on

1:13:51dancing with the stars taylor is a bachelorette saying that out loud is crazy like

1:13:55that is huge but all the cool opportunities could close apart it's causing issues in

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1:14:05original series the secret lives of mormon wives now streaming on hulu and hulu on

1:14:10disney plus for bundle subscribers terms apply well i would like to see they allow

1:14:14more of you guys to take the the spots doing fights in commentary oh like

1:14:21color yeah yeah i mean right now it's just dominic cruz paul felder michael bisping

1:14:27and dc that's essentially it yeah i mean those those only former fighters from the

1:14:32ufc that are doing it and i really think there's room for more guys yeah

1:14:36dan hardy was great yeah for sure he was awesome at it yeah he was

1:14:39i don't know what the fuck happened with him in the ufc they had some

1:14:42sort of a squabble and he left but he's fantastic over at pfl he's still

1:14:46with them yeah yeah he does that he's really really good man he's he breaks

1:14:50stuff down he's very good yeah very good and he's a great guy i've known

1:14:54him forever he was a 10th planet jiu -jitsu guy so i've known him since

1:14:58like fuck i must have met him 20 years ago wow yeah i didn't know

1:15:03that yeah before he was fighting gsp before he's fighting any of those guys i

1:15:08knew him yeah he would come over from england to train in america he was

1:15:12such a knockout artist we never really get to see him right do jiu -jitsu

1:15:15yeah no he was good at jiu -jitsu too man i mean he trained hard

1:15:18and he's just a very smart dude who knows a lot about the sport yeah

1:15:22it seems like it when he's breaking down stuff you can tell he's studied he's

1:15:25also just like a very skillful commentator because he's very intelligent and his the way

1:15:31he describes things it's exciting i mean i think he they i don't know what

1:15:35happened with them and when i'm on the desk with those guys i try my

1:15:38best to not break things down too much like on the stat side i try

1:15:43to make it seem like a conversation sit on the couch watching fights with your

1:15:47boys where i talk about experiences that i've had and stuff because they explained it

1:15:51to me like that's what fans want to see if they want to look up

1:15:53stats they'll go look it up they don't want to hear you talk about submission

1:15:56attempts and exact stats they want to know your experience yeah so like each rep

1:16:01i'm think i'm getting better you know open it up and being more myself i'm

1:16:04trying to do a good job man i really really enjoy it i think stats

1:16:06are interesting sometimes but what's really more important that is it's like a technical breakdown

1:16:11of abilities right because stats it's you know it's variable depending on who you're fighting

1:16:17like like you take charles olivera stats and then you say his fight with islam

1:16:21makachev and you say okay well where's the stats like it's it's like it's it's

1:16:25really dependent upon skill sets who's your level of competition who you're competing with yeah

1:16:30you know what i mean that was a quick submission though the stats are one

1:16:35submission to tilt one submission bro he's got a crushing squeeze it's different bro it's

1:16:40different yeah yeah he strangled me and the way he did it i think he

1:16:44uh moicano filled in last minute to fight islam and got caught with the same

1:16:49choke it's kind of like a dars choke but he locks it on his forearm

1:16:53yeah he doesn't go to the bicep i know and the squeeze is different he's

1:16:56pulling to his chest it's not like a angle squeeze it's it's different so the

1:17:00defense is different when i got my legs out and tried to walk around he

1:17:03hooked my leg but like the squeeze is completely different completely different you know you

1:17:08belly down and kind of get some space to breathe you can't when the way

1:17:12he does it craig jones broke it down it's like a front choke almost like

1:17:15a like a squeeze to your chest it's not a angle that you use for

1:17:19a normal dars choke i know i was shocked the first time i saw him

1:17:22do it i was like maybe he just like couldn't cinch up the bicep then

1:17:26i saw him do it a second time i was like no then no this

1:17:28guy's trying to do it that way he grabs right yes yeah yeah and craig

1:17:32jones did an awesome breakdown of it on youtube where explains why it's effective and

1:17:38what's so good about it and it when he gets the grip locked in like

1:17:41it's complete immediate blood shutdown you know usually you feel it slowly fading away it

1:17:46was like right away wow so that dude's got a back like the whole started

1:17:50drive -through movie on the the darkness started coming in like as soon as he

1:17:54got the grip really yeah he's so fucking strong man there's like something about those

1:17:59dagestan guys man like the discipline those motherfuckers have yeah you know there's dagestan guys

1:18:05that are making their way into muay thai now too there's this dude asadula imang

1:18:10gazaleev i talk about him all the time but i can't talk about him enough

1:18:15he's one of those one fc guys that is fighting um in muay thai from

1:18:20dagestan and this fucking kid is 22 years old and he's knocking out like multiple

1:18:26time world champions i've never seen him bro this dude is a freak i mean

1:18:33he's a he's just putting people into the shadow realm every fight dude it's so

1:18:38wild to fight four ounce gloves in muay thai i know but i mean you

1:18:41could throw elbows and stuff and knees so it's perfect it's like four ounce gloves

1:18:46i mean look you're throwing elbows knees everything else in the clinch it allows you

1:18:49to grapple better it just makes it so much more dangerous for the blocking you

1:18:53know you don't have the the gloves covering all the space around your ears but

1:18:56this cat is special man he's special nasty and and he's from dagestan it's like

1:19:01okay imagine this motherfucker gets into mma everybody's fucked if this guy can wrestle at

1:19:07all which you know he can if he's from fucking dagestan well they do a

1:19:10lot of kickboxing for sambo right yeah this dude's something though he's something new oh

1:19:16my god because he's 22 years old and he's like world muay thai champions he's

1:19:20sleeping them all yeah it's nuts man what weight is that uh 145 i think

1:19:27he's 145 or 35 145 probably tall tall lean 132 132 is that what it

1:19:33says this thing right here says uh on screen weight limit 132 .7 interesting 510

1:19:40interesting 60 kilograms 22 years old man well at that weight well and then you

1:19:47think about one has some crazy thing look at this win knockout win knockout win

1:19:52knockout he's a freak man and that one dude that made it to the unanimous

1:19:57decision is this kid from morocco who's just tough as shit but god damn he

1:20:01took a beating they have such a great product man i wonder how many like

1:20:04viewers and how the ratings are i mean it's big in asia but um there

1:20:09they have financial struggles i don't want to speak to it because i don't know

1:20:13enough but there's a lot of talk i know they wanted to start doing shows

1:20:16in america they've done a few yeah uh i know they did one in colorado

1:20:19they maybe have done multiple i'm not aware but uh it's a great product that's

1:20:23the thing it's like i love watching their kickboxing fights on youtube and that kid

1:20:28yuki yoza that i was telling you about that throws calf kicks he's fucking everybody

1:20:32up with calf kicks and there's another guy from a lot of these kyokushin guys

1:20:37especially in kickboxing so like they have different rule sets over there in one you

1:20:42can fight kickboxing where they use big gloves or you can fight muay thai where

1:20:48they use little gloves and i think they've had muay thai fights where they have

1:20:51big gloves too so in the kickboxing you're not allowed to clinch not allowed to

1:20:55throw elbows but in the but you can throw knees but you can't clinch and

1:20:59just continue to throw knees and you can't sweep and you can't take guys down

1:21:02it's a little confusing I think Muay Thai is the way to go, but the

1:21:06thing about kickboxing in Japan is like they just wanted to, that's what K -1

1:21:10was. They're like, let's just take out all the clinching and make this as exciting

1:21:15as possible. What's the best way to do that?

1:21:18And the elbows, elbows are very effective, obviously, and knock a lot of guys out,

1:21:23but also cut a lot of people open and stop fights prematurely.

1:21:27Which is why Pride didn't allow elbows, which is really crazy when you think about

1:21:32that. Because Pride had soccer kicks and stomps.

1:21:35But you were fighting multiple times.

1:21:37True. Cuts, you know, if you get cut in the first fight, it could change

1:21:39everything. I think that makes sense.

1:21:41I kind of, but I mean, soccer kicks?

1:21:43Stomps and soccer kicks with no elbows?

1:21:45Yeah, yeah. It's hard to say because for ground.

1:21:48And knees to a grounded guy.

1:21:49Yeah. Ground and pround elbows are so effective.

1:21:52It's so important. I mean, it really, like, guys that think they're comfortable and safe

1:21:57in the guard, you're not.

1:21:58But you're not when a guy can still bust you up with elbows from a

1:22:02short distance. It's a very effective technique.

1:22:04Yeah, very damaging cut. Yeah.

1:22:07Very, very damaging technique. Well, there's a real problem with the cage.

1:22:10And the problem is the wall.

1:22:12Like, the fence is an artificial structure that keeps you from being able to move.

1:22:17And I've always said this, that I think it should be an open mat.

1:22:21It should be a large mat.

1:22:22And you should not. Like a wrestling mat?

1:22:25Yeah, like a big wrestling mat.

1:22:27Like, think about a basketball game.

1:22:29Like, think about how much space is on a basketball court.

1:22:31And you still get 16 ,000 people in there to watch a basketball game.

1:22:35Guys would be, I would think, running around a lot of.

1:22:39You know, maybe you get penalty.

1:22:41Penalty for moving too much.

1:22:42Maybe you have red zones.

1:22:43Like pride, yeah. You have a red zone.

1:22:44Yellow card or. Well, you have a center that you're supposed to stay in.

1:22:48And then you have a red zone outside of it.

1:22:50And then you have a black zone outside the red zone where you get points

1:22:52taken away. You enter into the red zone too many times.

1:22:55You get a warning for the first time.

1:22:57Another warning for the second time.

1:22:58Third time, you get a point taken away.

1:23:00So you could use it once or twice to evade.

1:23:02But then you've got to go back into the area where you're supposed to fight.

1:23:05I think that would be cool.

1:23:07How big of an area are you talking?

1:23:08Basketball court. That's too big, man.

1:23:10That's too big. How about football?

1:23:12How about football fucking field?

1:23:15That's too big. Meat in the center.

1:23:16That's too big. They're doing that with no rules fights.

1:23:18Yeah? Yeah, I watch a lot of no rules fights.

1:23:20They're horrible. The Russian stuff?

1:23:22They're so scary because guys just mount guys and gouge their eyes out.

1:23:25Yeah. They're mounting people and just shoving their fingers in their eyes.

1:23:28And guys are screaming and tapping.

1:23:30And it's like, oh. I run across some pretty crazy stuff on IG sometimes.

1:23:33Oh, Lord. From those crazy shows.

1:23:35But they're fighting in parking lots.

1:23:37They're fighting on. Phone booths.

1:23:38Yeah. Cars upside down. Underwater.

1:23:40They're fighting everywhere. They're fighting everywhere.

1:23:42I saw them on a cargo container floating on top of water where you get

1:23:46knocked off. That's crazy. It's so ridiculous.

1:23:50American Gladiators. You get KO'd and you fall into the water and you just breathe

1:23:53water and they don't rescue you in time.

1:23:54Just fight with those kid floaties on.

1:23:58If you get knocked out, you just float to the top.

1:24:00Instead of those Muay Thai things.

1:24:02Yeah. Blow them up. Your corner's blowing them up.

1:24:05Yeah. But I think the cage.

1:24:09You know how the UFC BJJ does that sloped surface?

1:24:14A perfect example. Karate combat.

1:24:16Karate combat does that sloped surface.

1:24:18That's a good one. And that's a big space they fight in, karate combat.

1:24:21Yeah. Something like that I think would be good.

1:24:23It would be better. There's something about.

1:24:25But the problem is then you're backing up and you hit that ramp and you

1:24:29fall down. Or what was the old karate?

1:24:32It was like, I don't think it was Chuck Norris.

1:24:34Chuck Norris. Yeah. Chuck Norris.

1:24:35His league. Something like that.

1:24:36Yeah. I think it was World Combat League or something like that.

1:24:38I went to see that one.

1:24:40WCF? Yeah. Something like that.

1:24:42World Combat Federation. Yeah. I think the first guy to do a slanted thing though

1:24:46was Frank Shamrock. You know, a lot of people don't realize that Frank Shamrock had

1:24:51an organization for a while.

1:24:52I didn't know that. And they fought in like this sloped sort of thing.

1:24:57Fucking Kumite. I think he might have been the first guy.

1:25:01Frank was way ahead of his time.

1:25:03Way ahead of his time.

1:25:05And he's another guy that got erased from, because he had a falling out with

1:25:09the UFC. And he got kind of erased from the lineage of like elite fighters

1:25:13from the past. Fighting older and strike force, like still bodied up.

1:25:17I know. He was a student of martial arts.

1:25:19Yes. Yes. But by the time he got to strike force, his kind of best

1:25:24days were behind him, like when Nick Diaz beat him up.

1:25:27He wasn't the same guy.

1:25:29When he fought Phil Barone, he wasn't the same guy.

1:25:31He had a lot of knee problems.

1:25:33And it's like, he's just not, after a while, it's like, he might have been

1:25:36like 40s in strike force.

1:25:38I don't know how old he was.

1:25:39Late 30s, 40s. Late 30s for sure.

1:25:42But when you go back to his fights in the UFC, I mean, he was

1:25:46a pioneer, man. When he fought Tito Ortiz, he was nowhere near Tito's size.

1:25:50And he just beat Tito with cardio.

1:25:52Just cardio and defense. And then eventually wore his ass down and beat him up

1:25:56and changed Tito's entire strategy for fighting after that.

1:25:59He was one of the guys early, was like super fit, super, you know, really

1:26:05focused on his health and nutrition and supplementation and everything.

1:26:09Back then, you didn't see a whole lot of that, but he was one of

1:26:11the guys for sure. Well, the lion's den, you know, Ken Shamrock's, the thing that

1:26:17they put guys through, this gauntlet that they put guys through in order to make

1:26:22the team, to make the fight team, was hell.

1:26:24It was just hell. They wanted guys to break.

1:26:27And so extreme conditioning, extreme mental toughness, like all that was emphasized.

1:26:33And so Frank was the best example of that, though, because he was elite everywhere.

1:26:39For sure. He was really taking guys down, he had great submissions, he had great

1:26:44striking, and, you know, he fought some wild fights, man.

1:26:48He fought Ensign, I don't remember where that was, was that in K -1?

1:26:54But he beat Ensign with knees.

1:26:57Like, he'd fought in multiple organizations.

1:27:00Obviously, he started out in Pancrase.

1:27:02Yeah. But he had only been training for like a year or something like that

1:27:05when he fought Boss Rutten in Pancrase.

1:27:08He was super fucking talented, man.

1:27:11Why? They let him wear boots, right?

1:27:13Or some kind of leg.

1:27:14Yeah. You had some weird shin pad deal.

1:27:16Well, you had wrestling sh**.

1:27:18with shin pads and open hand slaps, you know?

1:27:22Yeah, yeah, it was always poem.

1:27:24Uh -huh, yeah. So what is this in?

1:27:27Does it say what it's in?

1:27:292011. This says UFC. It's not UFC.

1:27:33Oh, it's Valley Tudo, Japan.

1:27:35Yeah, this was before 2011.

1:27:37Yeah. Okay, so this is Valley Tudo, Japan.

1:27:41So Valley Tudo, Japan, I wonder if it's the same Valley Tudo that Hickson fought

1:27:45in. And so Hickson was, you know, the champion of Valley Tudo, Japan, early on.

1:27:52Well, that was like in the documentary Choke.

1:27:54You've seen that, right? Uh -huh, a long time ago, yeah.

1:27:56Documentary Rules. Yeah, man. That Documentary Rules.

1:28:01That's how Hickson became a legend.

1:28:03Back in the real NHB, no.

1:28:05Yeah. Yeah. No rules days.

1:28:07Right, right. Well, the first UFC that I went to was UFC 12 in Dothan,

1:28:12Alabama. And you could wear wrestling shoes.

1:28:14You could punch guys in the nuts.

1:28:16Yeah. Hair pulling. Yeah. Grab their clothes.

1:28:19No weight class? There was two weight classes back then.

1:28:24Like, because Vitor won the heavyweight tournament back then.

1:28:27I think they had two weight classes back then.

1:28:30So they still recognize that there's some smaller guys and some big guys.

1:28:34And smaller guys are real talented, but they're never going to beat the big giant

1:28:37guys. So let's have a weight class for them.

1:28:39Yeah. I remember renting VHS tapes with my dad or the old UFCs, dude.

1:28:46What got you into the spoiler?

1:28:47How old were you when you first started martial arts training, period?

1:28:5017. 17. That's late. Yeah.

1:28:53If you think about it, right?

1:28:54Well, I mean, if you want to call it wrestling, I wrestled for two years

1:28:57when I was 10 and 11 for a private club.

1:28:59We did, like, traveling Texas a lot, Louisiana, small club meets.

1:29:03But other than that, no combat sports, no martial art experience.

1:29:07How'd you get into it?

1:29:08Boxing. When I was 17, I wanted to box.

1:29:10Always wanted to box. Started going to a boxing gym.

1:29:13Met some MMA guys there.

1:29:14Didn't know they had MMA where I was from.

1:29:17Then went to the MMA gym and never went back to the boxing gym.

1:29:19So what year are we talking?

1:29:222006, maybe? Oh, okay. So this was right when the UFC first started getting big.

1:29:26This is, like, I remember when Stefan and Forrest did the big thing.

1:29:30This was, like, beginning around the time I was training.

1:29:33Boxing and mixed martial arts.

1:29:34So that wave, like, I just never stopped.

1:29:37Wow. Yeah, man. What was it?

1:29:41The World Combat, like, Chris Horidecki was over there.

1:29:46Ben Ratho was over there.

1:29:47Remember? What was that? The team organization.

1:29:49That was big at the time.

1:29:50Right. IFL? IFL. Yes. Everybody had teams and stuff.

1:29:55That was weird. That was real big around that time.

1:29:58Yeah, I didn't know. That's where Dan Miller, Jim's brother, landed the grossest guillotine I've

1:30:04ever seen in my life.

1:30:06Have you ever seen this one?

1:30:06I don't think so. Oh, my God.

1:30:08It's the worst guillotine of all time.

1:30:09He gets this guy in a guillotine and traps his head in his chest and

1:30:13bends his chest so his head is connected to his own chest sideways.

1:30:18So like this. His head went all the way down and touched his chest.

1:30:22I don't even know how he stayed alive.

1:30:24Yeah. Watch this. Watch this guillotine.

1:30:27There it is. I have felt.

1:30:27Check this out. No, watch this guillotine.

1:30:29Look at that. Look at that.

1:30:30Bro. Jesus. Bro, how's that guy alive?

1:30:33He's not. Look at that.

1:30:34Look at that. How is he alive?

1:30:36Have you ever seen that before?

1:30:37Ever? Like, that's crazy. That is the craziest guillotine I've ever seen in my life.

1:30:44That's so crazy. Looks like his neck's broken, bro.

1:30:47How is he alive? Yeah.

1:30:49Like, first of all, why did it take so long for the referee to stop?

1:30:51Who's the referee? Steve Mazzucati.

1:30:56I don't know who it is, but you could have probably stopped that a couple

1:30:59of seconds earlier. But I mean, it's just hard to imagine that a neck can

1:31:03go in that direction. Like, it's so, that doesn't show it.

1:31:08The other angle that you showed is really what showed it.

1:31:10Yeah. The other angle where you see it from the side, where you see his

1:31:14head. Like, when he cinches it up here, that is crazy.

1:31:20That, you're not supposed to bend like that.

1:31:22You know, your ear's never supposed to touch your chest.

1:31:24No. I don't know how it does.

1:31:26I don't know. I mean, it just seems like everything would break.

1:31:29It seems like you would never walk again.

1:31:31He's not, Dan's not fighting anymore, huh?

1:31:33No. Jim's still fighting. Jim's still rolling, man.

1:31:35Jim's still fighting. Still rolling.

1:31:36It's crazy. Most fights in UFC history.

1:31:38And still fine. No surgeries.

1:31:41No nothing. Yeah. Still durable.

1:31:43Did get beat up. Was his last fight Bobby Green?

1:31:46That was the last time I think I saw him fight.

1:31:47I don't know if that was his last fight, but he definitely got beat up.

1:31:49That was a lot. He's definitely lost a step.

1:31:51I mean, he's 40 years old.

1:31:53Yeah, yeah, yeah. But man, dude still loves it.

1:31:55Still loves it. Respect to him, dude.

1:31:56Yeah. I mean. He sent me a cookbook.

1:32:00He came out with a cookbook.

1:32:00He's a big cook and hunter and stuff.

1:32:02You know, he sent me a cookbook and a spatula.

1:32:05Oh, that's hilarious. It's like Captain Redbeard or Jimmy Redbeard on the spatula.

1:32:09It's like engraved into it.

1:32:10Fuck yeah. He's quite a character.

1:32:12Yeah, I like him. I like him, man.

1:32:13I like him a lot, too.

1:32:14He's a very fun dude.

1:32:15And also, complete wits about him.

1:32:17Doesn't have any problems mentally.

1:32:19You know, he's like. Seems like a hard worker.

1:32:21He's always on his farm doing stuff.

1:32:23Like, you would never think he was a fighter if you didn't know.

1:32:25I know, right? Yeah. Yeah.

1:32:28He's a fascinating character. Well, the thing about this sport is that it, like, exceptional

1:32:33humans are exceptional at fighting.

1:32:36Like, to be an exceptional fighter, you have to be an exceptional person.

1:32:40There's really no way around it.

1:32:42There's like, it's too hard to do.

1:32:44Right, right. You have to be a very unique kind of human being that can

1:32:47get through those camps, that can perform under the big lights, that can figure out

1:32:51how to keep getting better and evolve.

1:32:52For sure. And that type of stuff is like, the last time I was on

1:32:55the show, what I was talking about, it's like a gift and a curse, man.

1:32:58It's like, you have to be all in at something.

1:33:00Those kind of people who are built like that, whether it's fighting or drinking or

1:33:05whether it's good or bad, you're going all in.

1:33:08It's dangerous. That's the problem, yeah.

1:33:09The problem is, like we see with Conor, when they don't have the fighting, then

1:33:13they go all in with the other things.

1:33:15Yeah, right. Fighting was always, for me, always pulled everything together, you know.

1:33:19That's why, like, retiring is scary, man.

1:33:22Rated T for Teen. Hey, everyone.

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1:33:42very own showcase telling my story the way it should have been told because when

1:33:46the show never stops anything is possible available march 13th pre -order now days are

1:33:52long i have a lot of time it's i don't have to get ready for

1:33:55a fight i don't you know you're still a young man too you still have

1:33:58a whole lot of life ahead of you 37 man yeah so it makes you

1:34:02think like what do i do now what do i do with my future what

1:34:04do i do what do you want to do dude i kind of got like

1:34:06for a week or so i would say depressed but i kind of got into

1:34:09like a funk like what the hell am i going to do with my life

1:34:12every day i would wake up for the last 20 years how can i be

1:34:15better fighter how can i what's new in fitness how can i push myself i

1:34:18want to be the champion and then boom you lay the gloves on and you

1:34:21wake up and you're a fucking civilian like right it feels crazy you know it's

1:34:26like i'm re -learning who i am like i always knew fighting was just something

1:34:30i did it wasn't who i was but after 20 years of doing it even

1:34:35though you know that and you think that like it fuck i don't know who

1:34:38i am without fighting how long did it take i'm a father i'm a husband

1:34:41i'm a lot of things right but like fighting was a cloud in my mind

1:34:46that never went away for 20 years right and now i wake up and it's

1:34:50it's gone like what what do i do i'm still trying to find out joe

1:34:53i don't know did you still get nervous when you would go to events you

1:34:56know that feeling that you get like you when i competed competing no no no

1:34:59yeah when you go to other events for other people yeah just feeling like you

1:35:03might have to compete dude my hands are sweaty yeah yeah that's weird right for

1:35:07sure i mean obviously it just happened to me last a couple weeks when max

1:35:11fought charles i was nervous i had armpit stains my hands were sweating i'm like

1:35:15dude i hope those people don't don't see this right because you feel like you're

1:35:19still there connected to both these guys for some reason well you are forever yeah

1:35:23that's the thing that's what's so interesting about watching like old fighters even old boxers

1:35:27when they go to like hall of fame ceremonies and they've seen each other and

1:35:31hugging like those guys are connected in time forever yeah max came up to the

1:35:35desk and i was like we spent an hour of our lives fighting each other

1:35:40you know as hard as we could and he didn't even know he's like no

1:35:43way an hour like yeah dude we went to two decisions two five round decisions

1:35:46and we fought the first fight was a one or two rounds so it's an

1:35:50hour of fight yeah we spent an hour beating each other up that is crazy

1:35:55when you think about an hour is a long time an hour is a long

1:35:59time to fight another man especially bearing your soul in front of the world it's

1:36:03not a regular hour just right out at the beach it's the biggest hour yeah

1:36:07and it's an hour you're prepared for for months each time but because of that

1:36:12like like you were saying with the boxers like we know we have an unwritten

1:36:15thing we know about each other you know something we never spoke about but we

1:36:18know each other better than a lot of people do yeah you know when a

1:36:22person breaks and who doesn't break max doesn't break he doesn't break i mean you

1:36:26see it in that fight i mean how does he how does he go through

1:36:30that whole round and not get submitted yeah dry with olivera on his back and

1:36:35cut close a few times like he's crushing his face yeah you know like that

1:36:39old shin yaoki where you go the angle you can choke through the jaw oh

1:36:43yeah guys go to sleep neck crank it'll choke you to sleep through the jaw

1:36:46well even just a rear naked across your face i've seen guys go to sleep

1:36:50yeah they just go to sleep you try not to tap and you just wake

1:36:54up and you're like how did he choke me out over my face because it's

1:36:57like a do you get enough torque and and crank it'll yeah cut off the

1:37:02vein or whatever you know it'll it'll put you out it's enough it's which is

1:37:06nuts and it's so much pain on the jaw too oh it's horrible choking getting

1:37:10lack of oxygen to the brain is one thing like the jaw binding up against

1:37:13the bones like you know that sharp pain you get when somebody's face cranking you

1:37:17and your jaw hell yeah it feels like it's going to dislocate yeah well that

1:37:20was the thing with khabib and connor where he did that torque that torque crank

1:37:25where he got his neck and he cinched it up with the forearm behind the

1:37:28neck yeah and pulls back like this like that is hell and those guys squeeze

1:37:33is different those guys squeeze is different what is something about lifelong grapplers there's like

1:37:39a density to them that's just different the density the strength and just like the

1:37:46knowing of where to put the pressure and what angle to turn your hips to

1:37:49make a big difference you know people outside don't even see it but it's so

1:37:53so crucial in the moment yeah when somebody's on your back and they just turn

1:37:57a little bit with the elbow you know rather than just squeeze straight on small

1:38:01things like that or you know what win fights i'll tell you the fight that

1:38:05i'm really looking forward to really looking forward to because i don't know what's going

1:38:09to happen is hamzat versus strickland i'm very interested in that fight strickland is a

1:38:16fucking nightmare standing up for sure it's a nightmare for sure when he did a

1:38:21fluffy hernandez i was like holy shit man the body shot the finish but he

1:38:25made fluffy fight you know he fights at a slower pace he has his own

1:38:29pace in there and he kind of forces the other guy to fight his opponent

1:38:32has to fight this pace with him i think the best the best chance is

1:38:36to to blitz him do unorthodox things because he wants to jab circle throw a

1:38:41kick jab circle he keeps a very slow pace he's not sprinting or trying to

1:38:44blast you out of there he just well he doesn't hit chips chips chips away

1:38:47high guard good show yeah very good show his defense is extraordinary he you know

1:38:53one of the things he was telling me is like i spar more than anybody

1:38:56and i get hit less than anybody and that is true like if you think

1:38:59about how much that guy spars it's a giant part of his training look at

1:39:03james tony he was hard he was hard to hit and all he did was

1:39:05spar yeah you know right perfect example there's something taught in that in those moments

1:39:09yeah understanding of distance timing pattern recognition you're constantly in there moving around right it's

1:39:17like and then there's also the cardio that comes from sparring yeah it's different yeah

1:39:22like because his cardio is almost entirely based on sparring and man that motherfucker doesn't

1:39:28get tired in there right and the fluffy fight was like i thought fluffy was

1:39:32going to be a problem i'm like fluffy's really good man you think he submitted

1:39:36adolfo viera he's got all this fucking crazy cardio he puts a pace on guys

1:39:42and strickland made it look like he just did not belong in there he's so

1:39:46heavy on that front foot though I can't believe guys aren't smashing that calf, man.

1:39:49I know. Well, he's hard to hit, man.

1:39:52And he also knows how to do that fucking hacky sack thing where, you know,

1:39:58like you're bending your knee upwards.

1:39:59You know what I mean?

1:40:00To check it? Yeah. Well, you don't even check it.

1:40:02You just kind of like relax your leg and lift it up.

1:40:05You know who showed me that is Alex Pereira.

1:40:08He's like, instead of checking it, it's like if you check it, it still hurts

1:40:12you. For sure. But he just lifts his leg up.

1:40:14He just goes heel to knee on the opposite side.

1:40:17And so like a hacky sack move.

1:40:19Right, right, right. I've seen guys take thigh leg kicks like that.

1:40:22Yeah. Kind of let it swing a little.

1:40:24But he does it with the calf.

1:40:25So it's like he sees it coming.

1:40:27Instead of doing that, stepping out and checking it, he just like this.

1:40:31See that? Yeah, that's it.

1:40:34Well, that, I think in this instance, I think that was probably the, I don't

1:40:38know if that was the first fight or the second fight.

1:40:40But Izzy's calf was already done.

1:40:43He was really happy. He told me after that fight, he goes, when he got

1:40:46stopped in the first fight, he goes, dude, I wasn't even that hurt.

1:40:49It wasn't that. He goes, I couldn't move.

1:40:51He goes, my calf was cooked.

1:40:52It doesn't go away. Yeah, that one's crazy.

1:40:57That's hard to do, bro.

1:40:58That's kind of silly. Soccer move.

1:40:59That's hard to do. That's kind of silly.

1:41:01I don't think he really does that.

1:41:02Block it with the bottom of your foot?

1:41:03He could, though. I'm very interested in that fight, too.

1:41:06Him versus Cyril Ghosn. That's very interesting.

1:41:09For sure. For sure. And I know the power's going to translate over to heavyweight.

1:41:12That's not going anywhere. 100%, man.

1:41:13He'll be able to flatline heavyweights.

1:41:15100%, especially with zero weight cut.

1:41:17Yeah. He's probably 230, 240 walking around.

1:41:20He is. 230 something, maybe.

1:41:21He's 240. Yeah, dude, come on.

1:41:23He's 240 walking around. That's a legit heavyweight.

1:41:25He's a big, tall, long.

1:41:26Fucking guy fought at 85.

1:41:28But so is Cyril, man.

1:41:30Cyril's good. An athlete heavyweight.

1:41:32He's good. Not just a big guy fighting at heavyweight.

1:41:33He's a legit heavyweight. It is a crime in the sport that that fight with

1:41:38Aspinall got stopped the way it did.

1:41:40That he eye -poked him.

1:41:41It's a crime. Yeah. Because that fight was playing out in a very interesting direction.

1:41:46Because Aspinall was having a really hard time touching that.

1:41:48He was bleeding. He was getting busted up.

1:41:51He was getting touched up a lot.

1:41:53Cyril's jab is legit. And that's what I was most excited for.

1:41:56I wanted to see Tom have to come back.

1:41:58Lose around and come back.

1:41:59I've never seen him. Obviously, I've seen him fight.

1:42:01But I've never seen him in a real fight where you have to fight your

1:42:04way back into it. How many times has he even been in the second round?

1:42:07Twice, maybe? Yeah. Something crazy like that.

1:42:09Nuts. And that's why the fan base kind of blew me away.

1:42:11I was like, these guys are so high on Aspinall right now.

1:42:14Like, for a few months, everybody was talking about Aspinall, how good he is.

1:42:17I've never seen it. Not that he's not.

1:42:20He has to be good to be where he's at.

1:42:22But I haven't seen it.

1:42:24Well, my thought was the real problem that Aspinall is going to present is in

1:42:28the grappling. He's a Brazilian jiu -jitsu black belt.

1:42:30He's a big fucker. He's fast.

1:42:32He's got a power double.

1:42:34I mean, he explodes. But when he's standing there and trying to stand with Cyril

1:42:38Gan, this is the first time that he was ever in front of a guy

1:42:41who was agile and quick and very technical.

1:42:45Right. Cyril Gan was doing a lot of sneaky shit.

1:42:48One thing he does is he keeps his hand low and then he pops that

1:42:50jab out. So you don't know where it's coming from.

1:42:52Up jab. He does a lot of weird shit with his front leg, too.

1:42:55He is pretty quick for his size.

1:42:57Real quick. Real quick. And he's a great athlete.

1:42:59And good mobility, good hips.

1:43:00Yeah, man. Cyril's a great athlete.

1:43:03Like, it's not just that.

1:43:04I've seen him dunk basketballs and shit.

1:43:06Like, he can move. Right.

1:43:07But it's just the fluidity of his striking is so efficient.

1:43:11Like, that's his world. If you just want to strike with him.

1:43:14Yeah. I mean, Jon Jones is so smart.

1:43:16Jon's like, fuck all this.

1:43:18Guillotine. Even Francis. Francis, well, he had a blown out knee in that fight.

1:43:23But Francis just, like, took him down every round and beat him up.

1:43:27Yeah, man. But that's a different Cyril.

1:43:29That's a Cyril that wasn't concentrating enough on his grappling and probably never thought that

1:43:33Francis was going to employ that tactic.

1:43:35Right. And then really worked with a lot of wrestlers and tried to evolve his

1:43:40game. I think Francis is on that Nate J card as well.

1:43:46He's fighting Phillip Lins. Yeah, he's an ATT guy.

1:43:49Yeah. Yeah. How good is he?

1:43:50I've never really watched him train that much.

1:43:52I know he made it to the UFC for a stint.

1:43:55Then he maybe went PFL.

1:43:57I'm not sure how good he is.

1:43:58Yeah. I've seen him at the gym, but I've never watched him train.

1:44:01Fortunate that there's not another big name for him to fight.

1:44:04Like, I was hoping they could get a big name.

1:44:06Bob Sapp. I mean, who would be the big name?

1:44:11At heavyweight? Yeah, at heavyweight.

1:44:13That's still talented. No one.

1:44:18Yeah. Heavyweight is the most shallow division in the sport.

1:44:21Period. Kane's out of jail.

1:44:22Get him in shape. Nah.

1:44:24Well, Kane's got crazy back surgeries and knee surgery and shoulder surgery.

1:44:28Kane was, like, too tough for his own body.

1:44:30And all the years of wrestling, man.

1:44:31Mm -hmm. Wear and tear.

1:44:33Wear and tear. Also just never giving his body a break.

1:44:36Just constantly grinding and pushing, and that's why he was so good.

1:44:41I think in his prime, the best.

1:44:42I think he was the best, heavyweight.

1:44:43Well, he was certainly in the argument.

1:44:44In my mind, it's him and Fedor, but honorable mention always I give to Fabrizio

1:44:50Verdum. Yeah. Because Fabrizio Verdum, people want to think about losses.

1:44:54Think about peak performances. Fabrizio Verdum tapped everybody.

1:44:59He tapped all the legends.

1:45:00Great trying. He tapped Minotaro.

1:45:02He tapped Fedor, and he tapped Kane.

1:45:05Like, just that. Just that alone.

1:45:07He tapped all the legends.

1:45:09I don't know why his name didn't, like when I was thinking about heavyweights, why

1:45:11his name doesn't even come in.

1:45:12I always want to give him respect.

1:45:13For sure. I always put it out there because the same way I do with

1:45:16B .J. Penn, because people, they only want to think about B .J.

1:45:20Penn maybe when he fought Frankie Edgar or when he fought Yair Rodriguez.

1:45:24Go back to B .J.

1:45:25Penn when he fought Sean Shirk.

1:45:27Go back to B .J.

1:45:28Penn when he fought Diego Sanchez.

1:45:29That B .J. Penn was a motherfucker.

1:45:32Joe Stevenson. Yes, Joe Daddy Stevenson.

1:45:34You've got to think about the guys when they're in their prime, when they're at,

1:45:39when they're redlining for X amount of years at peak performance.

1:45:44When you're talking about, like, all -time greats, I get it.

1:45:47All -time greats, you've got to think about guys like Jon Jones and Khabib who

1:45:50never lost. They stayed flawless their entire career.

1:45:54You're right. But for peak performance, when they were at their best, how good were

1:46:00they? I put prime. time BJ Penn at 155 against almost anybody.

1:46:05Yeah, you're right, man. Bro, he was so good, and his jiu -jitsu was so

1:46:08good, and he could knock you out, and he was an animal.

1:46:12When he was training with Marv Marinovich, when he went over there and was really

1:46:15learning how to get in insane shape, and he would come there with that big

1:46:20ass. Carrying rocks underwater and stuff.

1:46:21All that shit. I think the carrying rocks was him.

1:46:24Marinovich had him doing a lot of crazy plyometric stuff, and the Marinovich's strategy was,

1:46:30you already know how to fight.

1:46:31Fuck all this fighting. You know how to fight.

1:46:34What we're going to do is just give you the most insane gas tank.

1:46:36So your fight training is, like, secondary.

1:46:40What's really important is just having the most spectacular gas tank so you never get

1:46:44tired. But he hated those camps, man.

1:46:47He hated it. And he only did it a few times.

1:46:49Even in the peak of his shape, he was still a little soft.

1:46:51He was never shredded. He was pretty shredded when he fought Joe Stevenson.

1:46:54Was he? Yeah, he had a six -pack.

1:46:56He looked good. I mean, it was different.

1:46:59But at 55, it was different.

1:47:00And everybody's body type's different.

1:47:01Well, at 70, he was never really a 170.

1:47:04You know, he was never.

1:47:05I mean, he was much smaller than you.

1:47:07Yeah, yeah. He was never really a 170.

1:47:09He was just so tough that he went up to 170 and beat a prime

1:47:12-time Matt Hughes. Yeah. He stuck around longer than he should have.

1:47:16He definitely did. He definitely fought without training well sometimes.

1:47:21That's the thing people remember.

1:47:22Yes, I hate that, though.

1:47:23Do you remember that one fight we fought on his tippy -toes?

1:47:26Remember that fight? Yep, yep, yep.

1:47:27Crazy. Weird shit. But you got to think about him in his prime.

1:47:31That's what I always say.

1:47:33Don't look at it. Like, Fabricio Verdum.

1:47:35Don't look at all the fights.

1:47:37Look at the fights when he was in his prime.

1:47:39When he was putting it all together.

1:47:40Fabricio was a nightmare. He was a nightmare.

1:47:42Like when they hit their stride.

1:47:43Yeah. That's what I was scared about, staying around the fighting too long.

1:47:46Like, I retired at 36.

1:47:48I'm like... Perfect. How much more athletic am I going to get?

1:47:52How much faster am I going to get?

1:47:53Right. How much... You know, power is the last thing to go, but durability, speed,

1:47:57reaction time, everything that I need.

1:47:59Like, and if I'm not right in line for a title shot or knocking on

1:48:03the door of it, like, what am I doing?

1:48:04Right. I'm fighting just to fight for a paycheck.

1:48:06You know what's really crazy?

1:48:08That's when... I had to look myself in the mirror, you know?

1:48:10Like, okay, this is it.

1:48:11I'm going to... You did the right thing.

1:48:13Be healthy. Leave with my faculties for the most part.

1:48:16The age that you retired was the age that Yoel Romero entered into the UFC.

1:48:20Yeah. Yeah. Isn't that nuts?

1:48:24Yeah. It really is crazy if you think about it because that's really what...

1:48:28And there's a few outliers out there in the sport.

1:48:30Like, in boxing, Usyk is the great outlier.

1:48:32Terrence Crawford is another great outlier.

1:48:35Dude, what about Usyk and Rico?

1:48:37Crazy. Crazy. Rico's a super nice guy.

1:48:39I love Rico, man. Super nice guy.

1:48:41He's a nice guy, but without leg kicks, the fact that he's going to just

1:48:44box and he's going to box maybe the best technical heavyweight that's ever lived?

1:48:50I don't know, man. I learned my lesson, dude.

1:48:53I bet $5 ,000 on Fury.

1:48:55Did you? Yeah. The second fight?

1:48:57Yeah. Yeah. Interesting. If anybody can beat him, it's Tyson Fury.

1:49:01If anybody can beat Usyk, it's Tyson Fury.

1:49:04Because Tyson Fury was beating him in the first fight.

1:49:06He just got clipped. He got clipped in the...

1:49:09I think it was the ninth.

1:49:10He got really badly hurt.

1:49:11I don't remember what round it was, but he got really badly hurt and dropped.

1:49:15But Usyk is just so slick.

1:49:18Yeah, man. His footwork, his movement, and the fact that he's essentially a blown -up

1:49:22cruiserweight and he's beating all these giant heavyweights like Dubois.

1:49:26Like, Daniel Dubois is terrifying.

1:49:28What he did to Joshua?

1:49:29Yeah, yeah. Just charged forward and just put fucking leather on his face.

1:49:34Yeah. Rico's a real heavyweight, but he's not a pure boxer.

1:49:38No. I mean, he can hit hard.

1:49:40I mean, there's that. But he's such a great kicker.

1:49:43You're taking a weapon away.

1:49:44You're taking a giant weapon away.

1:49:44It's interesting. It's a spectacle.

1:49:45I'm watching for sure, but I just...

1:49:47I'm sure he's boxed with a lot of, like, really elite boxers in the gym.

1:49:52I mean, but it's just the payday.

1:49:54Yeah, over the years, for sure.

1:49:55For sure, yeah. The payday's probably bananas.

1:49:57I'm sure. They're fighting in Giza.

1:49:59In front of the pyramids?

1:50:00Nuts. Crazy. Who's putting this together?

1:50:02No clue. Who put that together?

1:50:03I have no idea. Yeah, aliens.

1:50:05Aliens. That's where they're going to land.

1:50:08You're going to do a Coliseum fight, MMA or boxing, where they set it up

1:50:12either in the Coliseum or right in front.

1:50:14You know, that would be crazy.

1:50:15Well, they were talking about doing that with Elon Musk and Mark Zuckerberg.

1:50:20They were talking about them fighting in the Coliseum.

1:50:21A real fight. I know.

1:50:23That's so crazy. Dude, that would be so crazy to have those guys be the

1:50:27first fight in the Coliseum.

1:50:28Do that one at Metta Headquarters or something.

1:50:29Don't do that at the Coliseum.

1:50:31Don't disrespect the... Don't disrespect the Coliseum.

1:50:34No, no. I know. That's silly.

1:50:37So who's live at the Pyramids of Giza?

1:50:40WBC World Heavyweight Championship, DAZN.

1:50:43But, like, I wonder who the promoter is.

1:50:46Cella. WBC. I don't... Is that their faces?

1:50:50That's so ridiculous. Look at their fucking...

1:50:52With their circular golden gloves on.

1:50:55Glory in Giza. It's going to be interesting, man.

1:50:59I'm excited about it. I wonder who's going to buy that.

1:51:02How much is that going to cost?

1:51:03I'm going to buy it.

1:51:04But, I mean, how many people are going to buy that?

1:51:07You know what I mean?

1:51:08Yeah. I'm going to buy it because it's...

1:51:10I love Rico. I've had Rico on the show.

1:51:13I mean, I think he's the greatest heavyweight kickboxer of all time.

1:51:15For sure. I feel like the way combat sports has kind of intertwined all different

1:51:19stuff, boxing, MMA, how big mixed martial arts is now, you're going to get a

1:51:23lot of crossover. Before, you'd get a lot of hardcore boxing fans buying this pay

1:51:27-per -view. But now you're kind of going to get a little bit of everything,

1:51:30kickboxing, MMA, boxing fans. But Glory has such a small audience, unfortunately.

1:51:36And this was the argument that Dana said to me about kickboxing in America, that

1:51:41they tried with Glory. I just don't think they got the right promotion.

1:51:45I think if the UFC was behind it...

1:51:47It's one -stop action. It's highlights the whole time.

1:51:49I know. It's what I'm saying.

1:51:50Why wouldn't you... I feel like if the UFC got behind kickboxing in America, it

1:51:54could be gigantic. Especially kickboxing with MMA gloves.

1:51:58That Gazaleev guy was fighting in the octagon.

1:52:01You know how fucking gigantic that would be?

1:52:03Yeah. Or Yuki Yosa. There's another guy, Masato Inori.

1:52:09There's a bunch of guys.

1:52:11There's a bunch of guys that are really elite that are fighting.

1:52:15Yeah. Oh, oops. A bunch, man.

1:52:16A lot, a lot, a lot.

1:52:21Yeah, Masaki Nori. Usyk open to fighting John Jones in crossover MMA fight.

1:52:28What? Wait. Okay, now you got me interested.

1:52:32Dude. If the UFC comes up with the cheddar.

1:52:36You better start wrestling now.

1:52:38Yeah, you better start wrestling now.

1:52:39Wrestling right now. Is that real?

1:52:41Did he say that? Rico is first.

1:52:44Second is whoever wins between Wardley and Dubois.

1:52:47And the third fight is my friend Greedy Belly Tyson Fury.

1:52:50So a rematch with Dubois is a tough sell.

1:52:54He just starched him. The Tyson Fury fight is the big fight.

1:52:59Because Tyson Fury is the only guy that, in my eyes, makes sense.

1:53:03He says a fight with Jake Paul in MMA at this stage is not being

1:53:06considered, but we're always open to creative and interesting collaborations in the future.

1:53:10If we were talking about crossover fights, it's a very interesting matchup, could be against

1:53:14John Jones in the United States.

1:53:16Whoa. I don't know what John's going to do, man, with all the stuff going

1:53:18on with the UFC. He might be done.

1:53:21Who knows? He doesn't want to be done.

1:53:23I know he got stem cells on his hip.

1:53:27I know because I helped him get it.

1:53:28He got it over at, and he's talked about it.

1:53:31I wouldn't have talked about it, but he talked about it.

1:53:33He got it at waisted well.

1:53:35And so he's feeling a lot better.

1:53:37He does have arthritis in his hip.

1:53:39It bothers him, but it doesn't bother him enough where he can't fight.

1:53:42And, you know, he's the greatest of all time, period.

1:53:45I did stem cells and PRP in my hip.

1:53:47I didn't notice anything from that.

1:53:48Well, it really depends on where you're getting the stem cells, what technology they're using.

1:53:53There's a bunch of different kinds of stem cells.

1:53:55Yeah, yeah. Talk to Brigham about that.

1:53:57He can explain it to you.

1:53:58But you had a labrum tear, right?

1:54:00It was pretty significant. Yeah, and I had to get the head of my femur

1:54:02reshaped, like a resurfacing. It was kind of egg -shaped and it didn't need to

1:54:06be rounded. So it tore everything off the inside of my hip.

1:54:09So how do they do that?

1:54:11They take your leg out of socket.

1:54:14They shave the top rounded, and then they put like a bunch of small holes

1:54:19in it to where it cracks.

1:54:20And then stem cells leak out of your body to create a new surface, out

1:54:23of your bone. How long did that take to recover from it?

1:54:26I couldn't put pressure on it for eight weeks.

1:54:28Wow. Yeah, because it's like...

1:54:30So you're just walking around on one leg for two months solid?

1:54:33Crutches, crutches. Yeah. And then once you start walking on it, how weird was it?

1:54:37Very weird, because I had to sleep in like a motion machine where my leg

1:54:41wouldn't stop moving at night.

1:54:43Oh my God. Because your hip capsule is like tricky.

1:54:45If it heals up too tight, your leg won't have any range of motion at

1:54:48all. So while it's healing, you need to be in perpetual motion, I guess.

1:54:53That's crazy. And every week, they would send a new code for my wife to

1:54:56type in the machine, and it would be a little bit different angle.

1:54:59Whoa. Yeah. So my... What a nightmare.

1:55:02For those eight weeks, I was sleeping in this metal brace that moved my leg

1:55:05all night. How did you sleep?

1:55:07It was horrible, because it went up to like your junk inside your leg and

1:55:11the outside of your leg.

1:55:12So it's like you had a wedgie by this machine, and your legs just motion

1:55:15all night. Oh my God.

1:55:17Yeah. It sucked, man. That's terrifying.

1:55:20But I'm fine now. It healed up good.

1:55:21That's crazy that it worked.

1:55:23Yeah. Wow. Resurfacing. Whoa. The guy actually who did it in Vail, Colorado, invented the

1:55:30surgery. GSB's had hip surgery there.

1:55:33Really? Yeah. He invented this surgery.

1:55:35And GSB had to do the same bullshit?

1:55:37I don't know if he had exactly what I had, but he had surgery there

1:55:40on his hip. God, that sounds like two months of no sleeping.

1:55:43How'd you sleep? Did you get used to it?

1:55:46Well, the first week, pain medicine and stuff, you're on all that stuff, it was

1:55:50after, like when I stopped taking all that.

1:55:52Pain medicine must have been fun.

1:55:54Do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do.

1:55:57Triple Z, dude. I was having dreams and getting the best sleep of my life.

1:56:02Yeah. That's a time where it makes sense to take that shit.

1:56:04Like you're in a fucking crazy breeze.

1:56:06Let's party. Yeah. For sure.

1:56:08Let's watch Netflix and not give a shit about my leg.

1:56:10Yeah. I'm sleeping in this machine.

1:56:12Hamster wheel. For real. What the hell's happened to my leg?

1:56:15I was on one of those when I got my knee reconstructed.

1:56:18You had a bunch of knee surgeries.

1:56:19Yeah, but my left knee, I had a patellar tendon graft, and they put me

1:56:24on one of them things where it does this, like when I was in the

1:56:27hospital, and it had a morphine drip.

1:56:29So you could press the button to get more morphine.

1:56:31I was like, boink, boink, boink, boink.

1:56:33Dude. It's flying there. I had the same thing on my hip.

1:56:37They put an epidural, and then they had a nerve block through my stomach, so

1:56:41I was like completely paralyzed from the waist down.

1:56:43Wow. But I had the button thing.

1:56:44I don't think it was working anymore, because I revved it.

1:56:49But it was shooting blanks, man.

1:56:52That's hilarious. It is weird, though, to see your knee constantly moving forward, but I

1:56:56only had to do it a couple of nights.

1:56:59I can't imagine. Oh, I did it for weeks.

1:57:00I can't imagine. That must have been so hard to sleep, man.

1:57:05Yeah, the motion wasn't so bad, because it's kind of slow.

1:57:08Oh, okay. It was the metal in my groin.

1:57:10Oh, yeah. It probably rubbed it raw and shit.

1:57:14Yeah. Oh, God. Yeah, man.

1:57:16Fuck, man. But like I said, I was on the pain medicine, so.

1:57:19It's crazy that it all worked, though.

1:57:20Yeah, dude. Shout out to that doctor.

1:57:22Shout out to all these doctors.

1:57:23I say that all the time.

1:57:24Like, both my knees would be fucking completely useless if it wasn't for amazing doctors.

1:57:29Right. Shout out to these guys for figuring shit out.

1:57:31I worked with Paul Felder at that Vegas show, and he just had a hip

1:57:35replacement. Yeah, he had the real deal, right?

1:57:38Yeah, no, he had a replacement replacement.

1:57:40Why did he have to do that versus what you did?

1:57:42I'm not sure exactly. It's something to do with the spacing, I think, inside your

1:57:46hip, how much spacing you have.

1:57:48Because my spacing was good.

1:57:49I wasn't a candidate for a replacement.

1:57:51Well, Paul went full nutty after he stopped fighting and started doing Ironmans.

1:57:55Yeah, dude, he was telling me he travels with a bicycle.

1:57:58He does, like, cycling for five hours, like, in a hotel room, like crazy.

1:58:03That's not good. That's unhealthy.

1:58:04Crazy, man. That's unhealthy. Yeah.

1:58:06Why are you doing that, Paul?

1:58:07Five hours, he told me.

1:58:08Well, the same kind of drive that made him a great MMA fighter made him

1:58:12want to, like, be the best Ironman dude in the world.

1:58:14You need something like that, man.

1:58:16Way before the surgery, just a couple years ago, when he first got diagnosed, I

1:58:20guess, with some injury. Yeah.

1:58:22It's a range of motion in my right hip, reached out to Heather and Dr.

1:58:25D from the UFC to help with an MRI.

1:58:27Long story short, I have the hips of an 80 -year -old man.

1:58:30No. off tissue left, grinding bone on bone.

1:58:34The problem is, once they put an artificial joint in you, you have that artificial

1:58:40joint forever. It's never going back.

1:58:42And as biologics get better and stem cells get better, they're better and better at

1:58:47re -healing or healing that actual tissue.

1:58:51And if you could just hang in there, this is kind of the conversation that

1:58:54I had with John, because if you could just hang in there, they're so close.

1:58:59They're injecting stuff into discs now and making the discs larger.

1:59:04So like people with back problems where the doctor's like, look, we've got to take

1:59:08some of your disc out.

1:59:09No, hang in there. And also look into other therapies, decompression.

1:59:14There's a lot of different things that you could do that can create space where

1:59:18your disc is pushing against your nerves.

1:59:21You can alleviate a lot of that.

1:59:22Surgery is the absolute last step.

1:59:24Especially with your back. Absolutely last step.

1:59:26Especially with your back. Look, if you have a blown ACL.

1:59:27Of course, they're going to cut you up.

1:59:28They'll do it anytime. It's good business.

1:59:31Cut you open. Then the medicines, the hardware, everything, it's a racket.

1:59:36That's the last step. That's the problem.

1:59:38When you have a hammer, everything looks like a nail.

1:59:42And when doctors get paid for doing surgery, they want to do surgery, because that's

1:59:47where they make their living.

1:59:48And it's a real problem with stuff like the back, because I don't know anybody

1:59:53that's had a back surgery and been better.

1:59:55Right. The only big one I could think of, I remember Nate Quarry was a

2:00:00big advocate for some company.

2:00:02Remember he had a bad...

2:00:02He had an artificial spacer.

2:00:04Yeah. He had artificial discs put in his back way back in the day.

2:00:08Yeah. He's the guy I think about back surgery.

2:00:10But he also was in intense pain because of that.

2:00:14And I think it wound up becoming a problem later on.

2:00:17Like, I know guys that initially had some relief because of back surgery, and then

2:00:23it started getting way worse after that.

2:00:26That's the same... Follow -ups.

2:00:27Always the same story. Like, same thing with necks.

2:00:31Like, you lose strength. It's always bothering you for the rest of your life.

2:00:33Like, Mike Brown has a fusion where they went in through the front.

2:00:36Fusions are rough. My buddy Alan Joban had a neck surgery where Kayla Harrison just

2:00:40had one. Like, once you have that, something...

2:00:43What did Kayla have done?

2:00:44I don't know exactly. I don't want to say the wrong thing.

2:00:46I'm pretty sure they went in through the front.

2:00:48Right, but I don't think she's telling anybody what exactly happened.

2:00:50Because, like, Al Jermaine had a disc replaced, and he came back and beat Piotr

2:00:54Jan in the rematch and looked fucking great and fought really well with that neck

2:00:59issue. And you don't hear him complaining about it?

2:01:01No. I mean, he said it's great.

2:01:02Yeah. I think that the new artificial discs that they're putting in the necks, a

2:01:07lot of them, it works out really well.

2:01:09I know quite a few people that have had those.

2:01:11I've been fortunate, man. I haven't had any neck.

2:01:13She had to repair herniated discs in her neck.

2:01:18Right. So the thing is, what they usually do is just take some of the

2:01:22disc out, and then you have less disc.

2:01:26So it's not bulging anymore, but you have less disc now.

2:01:30So now you have more degenerative disc issues.

2:01:34I just think there's other options, and one of the options is decompression.

2:01:37I don't know if anybody ran that by her, but I have a fucking neck

2:01:42harness. It's attached to a chin -up bar, and I put it around my neck.

2:01:46It straps under my chin, and I put my weight on it.

2:01:49I just, like, stretch my neck out.

2:01:51It works. You know, I hear it pop.

2:01:54Yeah, yeah. Pop, pop. It says they replaced the disc.

2:01:58Oh, she had to replace.

2:02:00Okay, so she got that thing that Al Jermaine got done.

2:02:02And, yeah, how is she going to fight that quickly?

2:02:07Oy! Look at that. Oy, oy, oy, oy, oy.

2:02:11I wonder what her turnaround time is.

2:02:13I mean, International Fight Week, maybe her?

2:02:15Her and Amanda? Well, she's fighting.

2:02:17She was supposed to be fighting at the Whitehorse.

2:02:19Yeah, yeah. Her and Amanda were supposed to.

2:02:21They decided not to do that.

2:02:22Yeah. So maybe this summer?

2:02:25Maybe. Because it's going to be, I mean, that's a big fight, her and Amanda.

2:02:28It's a big fight. But, I mean, there's a possibility that you do something like

2:02:32that and you're never the same again.

2:02:34So she might not ever.

2:02:34Oh, the surgery, yeah. Yeah.

2:02:35It's like, whenever you're dealing with your spine, it's very tricky.

2:02:40Yeah. You know, it's just one of those things.

2:02:42It's like, ugh. Shoulders, knees.

2:02:45Mm -hmm. There's some things, man, you don't want to injure.

2:02:48I don't think anybody's ever come back from a knee replacement and fought MMA.

2:02:51I've never heard of that.

2:02:52I've heard of disc replacements.

2:02:54I've heard of a lot of knee surgeries, guys come back.

2:02:57But Destus Bukakis was the worst.

2:02:59Remember that? He fought Khalil and Khalil sidekicked his knee sideways.

2:03:03And he hyperextended it? Oh, it went sideways.

2:03:06John does that knee stomp thing, too.

2:03:08I don't know how I feel about that, man.

2:03:10Well, Ian Gary did it to Shavkot.

2:03:12I don't know how I feel about it.

2:03:12Fuck Shavkot's knee up. I know.

2:03:15It's kind of fucked. Because, look, yes, it's effective.

2:03:18But so is eye pokes.

2:03:19That's what I was about to say.

2:03:20I feel like it's kind of dirty.

2:03:21Like, legalize eye pokes. It is dirty.

2:03:24I mean, so are nut shots.

2:03:25I mean, nut shots are effective, too.

2:03:27Are we going to allow those?

2:03:28No. I mean, why are we allowing someone to do a technique that you can't?

2:03:31We do have 12 to 6 elbows now, so at least we're getting somewhere.

2:03:33Yeah, I like that. Yeah.

2:03:35But I'd rather have knees to a grounded opponent than kicking the knee sideways.

2:03:39It just seems like it takes a year off of your career, at least.

2:03:44Soak in a knee bar, soak in an arm bar.

2:03:47Yeah, but you could tap.

2:03:48True. True, true, true. You get a knee bar, you could tap.

2:03:50Right. Inside heel hooks is the scariest, because you only got a couple of microseconds

2:03:54to tap. When you get that one, that one's so nasty.

2:03:58The knee across, you have no time.

2:04:00You just got to tap.

2:04:02Yeah. You just got to know when you're done.

2:04:04You got to know when he got you and not let it.

2:04:06Did you ever see when Mikey Musumichi fought some cat in - I think I

2:04:11know what you're talking about.

2:04:12And the dude would not tap.

2:04:13Yeah. And he was just ripping his knee apart.

2:04:15And Mikey was talking about it afterwards.

2:04:17He was like, it was so gross.

2:04:19I was like, why did you make me do that to you?

2:04:21All right. Why didn't you just tap?

2:04:23He mangled that guy's legs.

2:04:24I think I saw a highlight of that.

2:04:25It was horrible. It's so horrible to watch.

2:04:29You got it? Yeah, show me.

2:04:31Yeah, let's see this. Here it is.

2:04:32Like, look at this. Look at his leg.

2:04:34Bro. Bro. Bro. That is almost as nasty as watching that arm bar, or that

2:04:40guillotine from Dan Miller. Look at this.

2:04:45This dude won't tap. It's so crazy and Mikey is just a master at destroying

2:04:51your knees Any normal human being would have tapped Yeah, yeah for sure and he

2:04:56does this like seven times in this match where he rips this guy's leg sideways

2:05:00left ways right ways The guy's knees destroyed Like look at that look how nasty

2:05:07this is man. This is so nasty Look outside that angle to that angle so

2:05:12awful the fact that this dude is just tolerating it like right there That's destroyed.

2:05:18Yeah, that is destroyed I don't know if that dude ever competed again afterwards.

2:05:23He might never be the same.

2:05:24No, you know the same He won't be the same He won't be it'll never

2:05:27be a hundred percent like you get your shit ripped apart like that for sure

2:05:31There's some meniscus. ACL ACL MCL everything Fuck that heel hooks that changed.

2:05:37I've been fortunate man with my knees.

2:05:38I have a torn meniscus In my right knee, but never needed surgery, you know

2:05:42Had a partial tear on my ACL when I fought Islam He pulled me off

2:05:46against the fence and my knee slid and I felt it tear felt like fire

2:05:49in my knee, you know And when you feel pain in a fight, you know,

2:05:53it's bad because you usually don't right, but I felt it burning like fire But

2:05:57you didn't need surgery didn't need surgery did a bunch of physical therapy I had

2:06:02a partial tear There's something called maybe a ligamentum or something that connects where your

2:06:06ACL is every time you tear your ACL the ligamentums Completely torn Always and mine

2:06:12had a partial tear in that so I must have took the weight off or

2:06:15we switch the position right before it tore my ACL Oh Yeah, but I had

2:06:19like bruising, you know back of my leg was all bruised up couldn't bend it

2:06:22for a little bit But now it's hundred percent.

2:06:24Yeah, I feel great. Yeah, that's interesting.

2:06:26Like, um Arnold out. No, who was it that was telling me that?

2:06:31Like there's different people that have had Different levels of tears And then in those

2:06:37levels of tears like some of them you can come back from 100 % but

2:06:41some of them Okay, this dude a broken ankle too.

2:06:45Oh my god. So this dude that try saying his name How do you say

2:06:50his name? Gentimer Byendurance Byendurance Um, so this is the guy Mikey Musumichi He was

2:06:58torn ACL torn MCL torn meniscus and a broken ankle That's crazy That's crazy.

2:07:06He did like a toe hold or something.

2:07:07How did he break his ankle?

2:07:09So it was oh, was it brendan allen was brendan allen was in the podcast.

2:07:12He was telling me this he tore his ACL Completely and never got it fixed

2:07:17and it reattached Wow, yeah Well, I got a slightly different angle but reattached like

2:07:23it tore off, but it was still hanging in there and it rehealed I was

2:07:27like that's not I never even heard of that before But I know some people

2:07:30that have had like a three -quarter tear and it heals But it's not really

2:07:34the same, right? It's still a little funky, you know, Brad Pickett fought his whole

2:07:39career with the torn no ACL in one of his legs I think Justin has

2:07:43that situation. Yeah Yeah, like Brad would sit on the ground on the mat and

2:07:46then grab his shin and slide it forward and you could see like this The

2:07:50mode the movement. How does that not chew your meniscus?

2:07:53He fought so many fights like that.

2:07:54Oh my god Well Rico Rodriguez did too Rico always had a blown -out ACL

2:07:58Huh and he fought Rico was down in Louisiana for a while man Rico Rodriguez

2:08:03was oh, he was one of the first Brazilian jiu -jitsu black belts.

2:08:06I trained with him at Tim's gym before Yeah, he's he was really good on

2:08:10the ground man Rico was really good on the ground and he was UFC heavyweight.

2:08:13I know point in time I know people forget dude.

2:08:16I didn't even know who he was.

2:08:17I was sparring him And Tim was like crazy was a heavyweight champion of the

2:08:20use like no way I know isn't that funny?

2:08:22He was out of shape, you know, I was like who's this big tattooed guy?

2:08:24Let's go There's a lot of guys that people forgot they they slept on It's

2:08:31interesting when you think about that.

2:08:32He was running a gym in Baton Rouge, Louisiana I don't know if he still

2:08:35is Rico was? Yeah, he had partnered with a Baton Rouge in Baton Rouge, Louisiana

2:08:39He took over in LA boxing They they turned it into a UFC gym now,

2:08:43but he was part owner or something.

2:08:45He was running it Wow Yeah Yeah, it's a hard road when guys retire and

2:08:51people don't even remember them Like at least you heard you have a giant name

2:08:54like you're always gonna be able to do seminars You always people are always gonna

2:08:57want to bring you into events you you have a career no matter what Yeah,

2:09:01I've been doing a lot of watch parties where I get with the fans and

2:09:03watch the fights. It's fun, man.

2:09:04I enjoy it That's cool.

2:09:05It's sometimes a little awkward because the fans will stick around too long like I'm

2:09:09watching the fights with you But you come sit in my booth and like we

2:09:11run out of things to talk about.

2:09:13It's like, okay, man Let me get your number like hey, bro.

2:09:15Oh, hey, my buddy's on FaceTime.

2:09:17Can you talk to so -and -so like dude just chill?

2:09:19I know some people just can't hang dude, but I fought Like I said 19

2:09:23years I say 20, but it's 19 years that I fought until like Connor fight

2:09:27Like that's when things changed for me when you recognition life.

2:09:31Yeah Tax act can think of a million things more fun than filing taxes Tax

2:09:37act is going to name some now Sitting in traffic Folding a fitted bed sheet

2:09:42Listening to your co -worker talk about his fantasy team Digging a hole Digging an

2:09:48even larger hole next to that original hole Unfortunately tax acts filing software can't make

2:09:55taxes fun But tax act can help you get them done tax act Let's get

2:10:01them over with wow. That's interesting That's crazy because like the door open for seminars

2:10:06for appearances. That's that changed Changed that's so weird And I had been in so

2:10:11many UFC main events. I had fought for the belt I've done all this stuff,

2:10:15but this that guy's name, man Isn't it nuts?

2:10:18I just personality got him so well obviously very skilled for sure Eddie Alvarez fight

2:10:23That's to Connor in his prime form when he was in the matrix Yes Eddie

2:10:28The the Aldo fight was great, but because it was one shot and and nobody's

2:10:33done that to Aldo ever ever ever and since That was amazing, but but the

2:10:38Alvarez fight was him in the matrix when the punches moving up and weight touching

2:10:43his nose And he's firing back those combinations.

2:10:47He was just in the zone He was it that was and Eddie's no Connor

2:10:51walk in the park. No, he's good man.

2:10:54He's tough as fuck when 80 beat dos anjos I was like holy shit Man.

2:11:00I was always a big Eddie fan.

2:11:02Oh, he was. Always. Back in the dream.

2:11:04Bro, his fights with Chandler.

2:11:06You want to talk about taking years off your life.

2:11:09Yep, yep. Those fights that those two had that nobody was watching, other than the

2:11:14hardcore guys, those were crazy.

2:11:16To this day, I tell people, you want to watch some chaos, watch Eddie Alvarez

2:11:20and Michael Chandler in Bellator.

2:11:22They're some of the best fights of all time.

2:11:24Knockdown, dragout, both guys. If you're a fan of chaos, watch those fights.

2:11:28Those fights were fucking bananas.

2:11:31And so that's what we anticipated when Chandler came over.

2:11:35And then we knocked out Dan Hooker in the first round.

2:11:37I was like, oh, shit, he's here.

2:11:38Same card. Same card as me and Connor.

2:11:40But I think that it was too late.

2:11:43I think he had already suffered so much punishment.

2:11:47If we got a hold of Michael Chandler like six, seven years before that when

2:11:52he was fighting in Bellator, this is the problem with PFL.

2:11:55This is the problem with Bellator.

2:11:56And I don't think it's a problem because I think these guys are prize fighters.

2:11:59You know, like, I think Francis Ngannou said it best when he was talking about

2:12:03this Netflix card. They're saying, someone said to him, do you think this fucks with

2:12:07your legacy? He goes, legacy?

2:12:09Who's legacy for? For you?

2:12:10He goes, fuck, keep your legacy.

2:12:13Give me my money. Right.

2:12:14Give me my pay. This is what I'm supposed to be getting.

2:12:16I'm Francis Ngannou. And I think he's right.

2:12:18But he's Francis Ngannou. He's already the UFC heavyweight champion, left as the UFC heavyweight

2:12:24champion. But for a lot of these guys that are starting their career, their best

2:12:29years are in these other organizations and not enough people know.

2:12:34Like Johnny Eblen. Perfect example you were talking about before.

2:12:36He knocked out Leon Edwards' brother.

2:12:38I mean, he's fucking good, man.

2:12:40Beat Musashi. I cornered him when he beat Musashi.

2:12:42Dude, Musashi's a legend. I grew up watching him.

2:12:44A legend. There's a guy, another good guy that people forgot about.

2:12:48Gegard Musashi was a fucking beast.

2:12:49By the time he made it to the UFC, I was already such a big

2:12:51fan. But like the casuals didn't know who he was.

2:12:54Oh, he was so good, dude.

2:12:55Gegard was so good and so smart.

2:12:58Right. Just so smart and unassuming.

2:13:01Was it him who up -kicked Jacare back?

2:13:03Yeah. Into a triangle. Yep.

2:13:05Yeah, man. Yep. Yeah. I think that was in Dream.

2:13:08Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, Gegard was a beast, man.

2:13:12He was a beast. Eddie Alvarez in Dream was...

2:13:14A bunch of good fights.

2:13:15And Gegard stopped Weidman in the UFC.

2:13:19Really good fundamental boxing. Great jab.

2:13:21Yeah. Great everywhere. Yeah, good wrestling.

2:13:23Good wrestling defense. Just super smart, too.

2:13:26Just a very, very intelligent guy.

2:13:28Super calm. But he got put on the shelf with the Bellator deal.

2:13:32He got put on the shelf.

2:13:34And I don't know what's going on with him.

2:13:36I don't know. He might not even...

2:13:38He might not even still be under contract with PFL or whatever.

2:13:42Well, I think he's 40 now.

2:13:44He was old in the UFC.

2:13:46Yeah. He's got to be close to 40, if not older.

2:13:50Where's Gegard Mousasi these days?

2:13:53Oh, he got drafted in the Global Fight League.

2:13:57That got canceled, I think.

2:13:59Oh, that thing. I knew that was going to fall apart from the jump.

2:14:02That thing was weird. When I was talking to coaches at American Top Team, and

2:14:05they were telling me, like, all these ex -UFC fighters, what their contracts were with

2:14:10this company. I was like, dude, they haven't even put on one show, and they're

2:14:12signing guys to these kind of contracts?

2:14:14I mean, the money was crazy.

2:14:15So, 2023 was his last fight.

2:14:17How old is he now?

2:14:19So, he lost to Fabian Edwards, the same guy that Eblen knocked out.

2:14:2340? 40. Yeah, cornered Eblen.

2:14:25The dream catcher. In that fight, dude.

2:14:27He got cut so bad with an elbow.

2:14:29Like, I can see the vein in this.

2:14:31I have it in my phone.

2:14:31It was crazy. I have it in my phone.

2:14:34The vein's still intact. It didn't cut the vein, but you can see it.

2:14:36Oh, boy. Oh, it's pretty gnarly.

2:14:38And then he stopped him.

2:14:39Yeah, elbow. We were in Ireland.

2:14:42Yeah, Eblen's a tough guy, man.

2:14:44And I think he's like one of those guys that's like at the very top

2:14:47of the heap at 185.

2:14:48But, again, I know about him, but how many people do?

2:14:52That's unfortunate. Yeah. You know, because he's been fighting over the PFL for how many

2:14:56years now? Well, he was Bellator.

2:14:58Bellator and PFL. And then they fought him, yeah.

2:14:59For how many years now?

2:15:00A long time. I mean, I think he might have had one or two fights

2:15:04when Bellator signed him. He got in early at Bellator.

2:15:07But he's a student, man.

2:15:08He's going to keep getting better.

2:15:09He's pretty young still. Submitting Mark Hunt's crazy.

2:15:12That's crazy. Right? And you think how small he is?

2:15:15He fought at 185 in the UFC, and he submitted 260 -pound Mark Hunt.

2:15:20Super small. Gagard Mousasi was a fucking beast.

2:15:24He was a beast. Just technique.

2:15:25Yep. Just technique. Technique, toughness, and intelligence.

2:15:29Just so crafty. Just so good everywhere.

2:15:32Good on the ground. Good standing up.

2:15:34And super patient, man. Methodical.

2:15:36Yeah. Yeah, I've always been a fan of him.

2:15:37There's a lot of those guys that just got people forget about.

2:15:40They forgot, you know? Yeah, a bunch.

2:15:43I would say people, one guy that people underestimated because they didn't get to see

2:15:47him when he was in his prime or they just forgot is Masvidal.

2:15:51Oh, man. People forgot how good Masvidal is.

2:15:53Masvidal knocked out Eve Edwards with a head kick.

2:15:56Remember that? Yep. And Bodog.

2:15:57Yep. Yeah, bro. Masvidal in his prime was a motherfucker.

2:16:03He was good. When he knocked out Darren Till, remember that shit?

2:16:07That switch step or... Oh, my God.

2:16:09Yeah, of course. Switch step, I think he caught him with a left hook.

2:16:11Knocked him out cold. Cold.

2:16:14Head bouncing off the ground.

2:16:14And he was a dog.

2:16:15When he started focusing on his wrestling, he was at the fucking Strikeforce, man.

2:16:18At 55. Yep. Oh, yeah.

2:16:21He was a dog back then.

2:16:22No, Masvidal was a beast, man.

2:16:24And he's good everywhere, man.

2:16:25He's good everywhere. He has good jiu -jitsu, good wrestling, good kickboxing.

2:16:28Yeah. He's good everywhere. I mean, when he went out with the 170, that's not

2:16:32really his weight class. His real weight class was 55.

2:16:35Yeah, but I think as he got older, he's a big guy.

2:16:36It was hard to make the weight.

2:16:38He's a big guy. He has really thick legs, and he's a little bit taller.

2:16:40Mm -hmm. Taller than me, for sure.

2:16:41But when he was really competitive, I feel like it was at 55.

2:16:45Yeah. But I mean, he gave guys problems at 70.

2:16:48Like the Darren Till fight was at 70.

2:16:50Mm -hmm. He fucked a lot of guys up at 70.

2:16:52Cowboy. Yep, cowboy. Was that at 70?

2:16:54Body shot at 170? Damn.

2:16:56Yeah. No, Masvidal, people forgot.

2:16:59There's people. And then, you know, he was having those backyard fights in the Kimbo

2:17:03Slice days. Yep, yep, yep.

2:17:04Which is crazy. Mm -hmm.

2:17:06The bare -knuckle Kimbo Slice fights.

2:17:09Yeah, man. Kimbo used to come to the American Top Team.

2:17:11He used to bring his kids and stuff.

2:17:12It was crazy talking to him.

2:17:14Cause I - Grew up watching his fights, you know?

2:17:16Well, he was like the first guy to become a legend on YouTube.

2:17:19Yeah. You know? Yeah, everybody knows who he is.

2:17:22Plus, he looked so cool.

2:17:23The bald head and the beard and the hair on the back.

2:17:26Like, everything was crazy. The braids in the bed?

2:17:28Yeah, super jacked. And just fucking people up in the backyard.

2:17:33Yeah. Like, they were moving around, like, satellite dishes and shit.

2:17:36I think he was a bodyguard or a driver for a guy in Miami who

2:17:40started a porn company, and that's how it started.

2:17:42Exactly, yeah. Yeah, and they organized these fights where there was just no warm -up.

2:17:47Just, all right, let's go slap hands.

2:17:48No, he would get out the car in the front driveway and walk to the

2:17:50back and just start scrapping.

2:17:51I know. It was crazy.

2:17:53But as a kid, like, when that stuff came out as a kid, that was

2:17:55such a big thing to watch, you know, that we had to download it illegally

2:17:58on, like, LimeWire or something back then.

2:18:00Yeah. You know? That was wild times.

2:18:03And then to see him in the UFC in the Ultimate Fighter, dude, what a

2:18:05journey that guy had. I know.

2:18:06And what balls it took for him to do that, to enter into the UFC

2:18:09with, like, basically zero grappling.

2:18:11Yeah. And he, like, really just kind of learning the sport.

2:18:15But, you know. Good boxing, but I don't think, like, gym, not trained boxing, just

2:18:18natural ability and. Well, he definitely had some training, right?

2:18:22The way he moved was, even in the bare knuckle, the way he moved was

2:18:24like a boxer, a shell, you know?

2:18:26Yeah. Like a Mike Tyson movement.

2:18:28Yeah, but it was, like, kind of rudimentary.

2:18:31Remember when he fought Seth Petruzzelli?

2:18:33Yeah. Yeah. Like, last minute.

2:18:35Petruzzelli comes in last minute.

2:18:36Like, Ken Shamrock had some sort of a dispute with them and maybe got cut

2:18:41backstage or something. And so, like, last minute, they swapped out Seth Petruzzelli.

2:18:46And he knocked him out.

2:18:47Yeah. I called that one.

2:18:49I called that one on camera.

2:18:51No, I wasn't doing the commentary.

2:18:53I think it was Elite XC.

2:18:54I think that bankrupt them or something.

2:18:56I don't know how. Like, they.

2:18:57That fight bankrupt them? I don't know if it bankrupt them.

2:18:59But after that happened, they didn't have many more shows after that.

2:19:02Well, I think they were going under anyway, unfortunately.

2:19:04Actually, I don't know how that fight would have bankrupt them, but.

2:19:06Well, they had some guy who was a boxing guy who was running the whole

2:19:10thing. Was his name Gary Shaw?

2:19:12I don't know back then.

2:19:13I don't remember either. But, you know, like, it's hard to make money in these

2:19:17things, man. Like, those things are hard.

2:19:19Like, the UFC doesn't get the credit it deserves in terms of the promotional machine.

2:19:24Like, that's a smooth running machine.

2:19:26Oh, yeah. That machine's been around for a long time.

2:19:29It's so polished. Between the production, all the guys in the truck, the directors, the

2:19:34producers. No, they're the best of the best.

2:19:36Yeah, they're the best. It's hard.

2:19:37And then you got all the best fighters.

2:19:40And it's like the product.

2:19:41So, when they have a fight like Holloway and Oliveira and like, oh, this fight

2:19:46wasn't good. Like, that's a great fight, man.

2:19:49For sure. It's just, you can't be a casual.

2:19:52People are just bloodthirsty. Yeah.

2:19:54You know? Like, listen, to do that to Max Holloway is crazy.

2:19:58Do you not appreciate that?

2:19:59Go watch baseball. Wrestlers, great grapplers have never done that to them.

2:20:03I know. It's nuts. It's nuts if you think about it.

2:20:06Yeah. It's exciting, man. The UFC's definitely the best at it.

2:20:09With this whole Paramount thing, I was kind of, we'll see how it turns out.

2:20:13I was kind of worried, like, if you take pay -per -view off the table,

2:20:16how much is UFC going to put the biggest fights together?

2:20:21Because they don't need to sell pay -per -views.

2:20:22They're guaranteed money. Right. You know?

2:20:24I was just wondering if that would not water it down, but if we would

2:20:26get a bunch of weaker cards.

2:20:28And I'm still waiting to find out, man.

2:20:29Well, it is weird, right?

2:20:31Because with pay -per -view, you're always building it up so that people buy it.

2:20:35And then also points. Like, the fighters get paid points.

2:20:40So how are fighters getting paid now?

2:20:41I've been asking every show at work.

2:20:43I ask everybody. I want to know, because, you know, my last few years in

2:20:46the UFC, I was - Nobody's telling you?

2:20:48Nobody's telling me anything. They're keeping you in the dark?

2:20:50Keeping me in the dark.

2:20:51What the fuck is that?

2:20:52Keeping me in the dark, man.

2:20:54Because, you know, I was pay -per -view partner multiple fights with the UFC.

2:20:57And that was always the thing they kind of, in discussion about contracts and about

2:21:02future fights, that they kind of held over you.

2:21:05Like, you win this fight.

2:21:06One day you're going to fight for the belt.

2:21:07You're going to get pay -per -view.

2:21:08Your life's going to change.

2:21:09That was always a carrot they hung, like, to make, you know, to do anything.

2:21:12That was the goal, to one day fight for the belt and get pay -per

2:21:15-view money. But now that that's gone, I mean, Conor's not going to fight.

2:21:18Even Justin at the White House.

2:21:19There's no way these guys aren't fighting with that backdoor money.

2:21:22So they must be just guaranteeing them a bigger perk.

2:21:25I don't know. Well, I think Justin would fight no matter what, because it's for

2:21:28the title. This is his last fight.

2:21:29Well, that, yeah, the title.

2:21:31But any pay -per -view guys.

2:21:32It's at the White House.

2:21:33He's a patriot. It's the last fight.

2:21:37You know. I think he would fight no matter what.

2:21:40But, like, you know, Ronda Rousey, you know, she's promoting the Netflix fight.

2:21:46I don't know if you saw what she said, but she had this big, long

2:21:49speech about the UFC selling for $7 billion.

2:21:52These fighters aren't making enough money.

2:21:55And, you know, look, she made some good points.

2:21:57And the most important thing is that she gets the conversation out there.

2:22:00And it puts pressure on the UFC to pay people more, you know.

2:22:04And if Netflix can become successful at MMA, if they can become successful putting cars

2:22:10together and pulling fighters away.

2:22:13Like, right now they're doing a one -off, right?

2:22:15It's one -off and it's kind of a gimmicky thing.

2:22:17And listen, this payroll is going to be crazy.

2:22:19It's going to be crazy.

2:22:20You've got Ronda, Francis, Nate.

2:22:22Everybody's getting crazy money. The payroll is going to be nuts.

2:22:25But if anybody's got that kind of money, it's Netflix.

2:22:28They throw around a lot of ridiculous money.

2:22:30They make so much money.

2:22:32So they can kind of do that.

2:22:34The question is, are they going to do that more than once?

2:22:37So if they do that more than once, then what happens is it's all about

2:22:40the name of the fighters, just like boxing.

2:22:43Like, if boxing, no one cares if it's Golden Boy or Bob Arum.

2:22:47Nobody cares about that. What they care about is who's fighting who.

2:22:50Is it Benavidez? Who's he fighting?

2:22:51Is he fighting Bival? Let's go.

2:22:53That's a great fight. So if Netflix can kind of do the boxing thing on

2:22:59Netflix with, like, big -name stars, they can be a major player.

2:23:03And that will elevate everybody's pay scale.

2:23:06So there's a lot of people like, oh, Ronda, how could you turn her back

2:23:09on the UFC and talk shit like that?

2:23:12If what she's saying doesn't make any sense, she can't say it.

2:23:16Right? So if what she's saying makes sense, then you have to go, she's got

2:23:22a point. Yeah. She's got a point.

2:23:23She's got a point. They sold it for $7 billion or whatever it is.

2:23:27They got this bill. In a $7 billion deal, whatever the fucking deal was with

2:23:32Paramount, not even selling it, sold rights to it, right?

2:23:35That makes sense. She's making sense.

2:23:37And so if she's saying this and Netflix listens and if someone comes along and

2:23:41they're a shrewd businessman, they go, look, there's a lot of people, their contracts are

2:23:44coming up. And when these people's contracts are coming up, let's get into negotiations.

2:23:48And then all of a sudden some people start drifting over.

2:23:51So if, like, you get, like, an Islam Makhachev starts leaving and they leave and

2:23:55go fight on Netflix. And then they can talk four or five top major contenders

2:24:00into doing it. Look, it's a big ask.

2:24:02Look, I love the UFC.

2:24:04Spent most of my professional career there.

2:24:07But I love seeing these other organizations come up and people making money.

2:24:10Like you said, it rises to everything.

2:24:12It's more places for people to work, you know.

2:24:14It's great. It's only good.

2:24:16Olivier Albon -Mercier made a million dollars in the PFL.

2:24:19Yeah. And I think he did it more than once, right?

2:24:22Didn't he win the tournament twice or something like that?

2:24:25I'm not sure. He definitely won it at least once.

2:24:28The Canadian gangster? Right. A guy who's not in the top ten of the UFC

2:24:33goes over to another organization and makes a million dollars.

2:24:36Okay. I don't know if that's sustainable for them.

2:24:39I don't know how they came up with that money.

2:24:40They've got to be bleeding money out.

2:24:42They have to be bleeding money.

2:24:43Nobody's watching it. Or even guys like Pettis, who was a former world champion, who

2:24:47you know his contract was good in the UFC.

2:24:49Right. She was not to re -sign with the UFC and he went to PFL.

2:24:52They had to be paying him big money.

2:24:53They have to be. You know?

2:24:54So it's all competition ultimately is good for the most important thing, which is paying

2:25:01the fighters. Yeah. So I'm happy.

2:25:03And places to work. Like if the UFC cuts you or something, back, you know,

2:25:08ten years ago, that was the only place to make money.

2:25:10Right. They cut you. Now you've got to get a job.

2:25:12Exactly. Maybe fight. Try to get back in part -time fighting.

2:25:15Like try to get. Exactly.

2:25:15Now you can pivot and still have a career.

2:25:18Well, that's the thing with Francis.

2:25:19When Francis left the PFL, everybody's like, well, now he's fucked because he can't fight

2:25:23in the UFC. He can't.

2:25:24Like I wanted him to come back to the UFC.

2:25:26Yeah. I was like, come on.

2:25:28Can we figure out a way to make this happen?

2:25:30But Dana just does not want to have anything to do with him.

2:25:32Like apparently they did not get along very well.

2:25:36Which is like, I'm like, come on.

2:25:38Yeah. I don't. Come. Can I help?

2:25:41Can I fucking get you guys in a room together and fucking calm everybody down?

2:25:45But the most important thing is if there's another player.

2:25:47He's still a guy I want to watch.

2:25:49Oh, yeah. You know? Fuck yeah.

2:25:50He's still a guy I want to watch.

2:25:51I mean, he's the legit heavyweight champion, if you think about it.

2:25:54He never got beat in MMA as a heavyweight champion.

2:25:57You know? And then he fought Hennon Ferreira in.

2:26:01PFL. Yeah. It's another ATT guy.

2:26:04But it's another one where it's like, who's watching that?

2:26:07I mean, and if you're watching it, you're just watching it for Francis.

2:26:10Me and you. Yeah. Yeah.

2:26:11Like, I mean, I wanted to know, like, what were the numbers for that fight?

2:26:14It was probably the biggest fight they ever put on.

2:26:16I don't think I've ever seen any numbers from PFL.

2:26:18And I think, like, he was, like, getting $20 million a fight, and he wanted

2:26:23his opponents to get a huge amount, too.

2:26:26I forget what the—he had, like, a minimum amount his opponents would get in his

2:26:30contract. Respect. Respect. I didn't know that.

2:26:32Yeah. That's awesome. That's part of his contract.

2:26:34Good for him. I forget what the number was, but it was substantial.

2:26:37So Hennon Ferreira got a giant payday for that fight, too.

2:26:41Good. It's like, how are they—where are they getting—I guess they have Saudi money.

2:26:45I think they did for some of the shows, because they went to Saudi to

2:26:48do some shows. But I don't know if they're backing them, the whole company.

2:26:55You're going to need something like Netflix, and Netflix can kind of pull it off,

2:26:59because Netflix has a massive promotional machine, but they need big names.

2:27:04So, like, now that they have Nate and Mike Perry on the card, too, like,

2:27:08okay. Okay. So you've got Nate, Mike Perry.

2:27:11You've got Francis, Philip Lins.

2:27:13You have Ronda and Gina.

2:27:16Okay. Now you have three interesting fights.

2:27:19Yeah. You're going to need a few more.

2:27:21And it's on Netflix, so it's going to be free.

2:27:22But even if Nate and Mike Perry was the headliner, I would have bought that

2:27:26pay -per -view. 100%. Well, you don't have to buy it.

2:27:28Exactly. It's on Netflix. So this is what gets interesting.

2:27:31So if this fight goes on Netflix and gets 50 million views— It's going to

2:27:36get a lot. Yeah. It could get more views than any fight ever.

2:27:40Yeah. It could. It's very possible that that—because Netflix is bigger than anything.

2:27:45If they got more views than anybody ever, that would be fucking—and then YouTube might

2:27:50come along. Most views on a mixed martial arts event.

2:27:52Hey, guys. We're YouTube. We're even bigger than Netflix.

2:27:55Because YouTube is bigger than fucking Netflix.

2:27:57Yeah. YouTube is everywhere. And if they come up with some crazy—if more players get

2:28:02involved in this and more people become free agents, it could get very interesting.

2:28:06Dude, it's crazy to see how far the sport has come.

2:28:09Because, like, back—all these big companies wouldn't want to touch this human cockfighting back in

2:28:13the day. I know. Now everybody wants a piece of the pie.

2:28:15I know it's nuts. It's cool now, though, you know?

2:28:17Yeah. It's wild, right, that cage fighting became something that, like, corporate America wants to

2:28:21get involved in. Dude, I'm in the airport.

2:28:22I'm in the grocery store.

2:28:24Grandmothers. Oh, you know, ladies are walking up to me talking about fights, which is

2:28:28insane. Insane. Insane. Because 15 years ago, it was bearded guys with tattoos would be

2:28:34in the grocery store. We'd whisper about it, you know?

2:28:37It was frowned upon. We'd talk about fight club, you know?

2:28:40Yeah. Now it's like soccer moms—did you see the fight last weekend?

2:28:44The arm bar? I'm like, what are you talking about?

2:28:46Well, that's all the UFC.

2:28:47The UFC, with that one deal.

2:28:50The Fertittas have such huge balls.

2:28:52Because they were down $40 million when they made that deal for Spike TV to

2:28:57do The Ultimate Fighter. And they were like, we're fucking hemorrhaging money.

2:29:01And they were talking about selling it.

2:29:02And just a perfect storm.

2:29:04I know. Stefan and Forrest.

2:29:05The world was watching, man.

2:29:07I know. And it felt special.

2:29:08I remember being at my mother's house.

2:29:10I knew I was watching something special.

2:29:12Yeah. Like, this is special.

2:29:13I know. It was crazy being there live, too.

2:29:16It was so nuts. It was so nuts to watch it evolve and watch it

2:29:20burst out. And by then, by 2005, I had already been working for them for

2:29:24like four years. Because I—well, I started in 97 with the old owners.

2:29:29And I did like the backstage and post -fight interviews.

2:29:33And then I did it for a little bit.

2:29:36And then I had to quit.

2:29:36I was like, this is costing me money.

2:29:38I made more money going to a comedy club for a weekend than I would—

2:29:43Flying to Dothan, Alabama. Bossier City, Louisiana.

2:29:47But I was happy I did it because it was fun and it was exciting.

2:29:50And I remember me and Eddie Bravo back then, we were like, man, you know

2:29:53what the UFC needs? This is like literally a conversation we had in like 98.

2:29:57They need some crazy billionaires that love the sport to just dump a bunch of

2:30:00money in it. Because we know it's exciting.

2:30:02It's just the rest of the world doesn't know.

2:30:04And along came the Fertitta's.

2:30:05And they did it. They saw it and rode that vision out and it paid

2:30:09off. It's nuts. Paid off.

2:30:10Literally like exactly what we said needed to happen.

2:30:13And then for that fight to happen in the Ultimate Fighter between Stephen Bonner and

2:30:18Forrest Griffin. Because it was a perfect kind of fight.

2:30:20It was so evenly matched.

2:30:21It was so chaotic. And they knew each other so well from being in the

2:30:25house together. They just went after it for three solid rounds at the end.

2:30:29Both guys were like, ugh.

2:30:31But dude, how could the idea of, the actual Kumite idea of putting the best

2:30:36fighters from all over the world, whatever discipline they train in, let's find out what

2:30:40was the best. That's, I mean, it has, of course it's going to succeed.

2:30:43It's chaos. Yeah. It's everything you want to see.

2:30:46And the crazy thing, it was really kind of invented as a showcase for Gracie

2:30:49Jiu -Jitsu. Because the Ohorian was like, you know, like, look, Jiu -Jitsu's going to

2:30:54prevail. And he was kind of right.

2:30:56No, I mean. At first.

2:30:58Dude, Hoist was in there against Giants.

2:31:00Dan Severn. Dude, come on.

2:31:02Chemo. What do you weigh?

2:31:03180 pounds? 190 pounds? Yeah, maybe.

2:31:05Not even. I think he was 176, I think he said.

2:31:07Fighting these bodybuilders. And I asked him why they pick him.

2:31:10He goes, look at this face.

2:31:11And look how beautiful I am.

2:31:13I'm so good looking. That's why they pick me.

2:31:16Wearing pajamas. We didn't even know what a gi was.

2:31:18Well, I had no idea Jiu -Jitsu was that effective.

2:31:21I was so confused. Yeah.

2:31:23I was like, someone's going to kick him.

2:31:25He's fucked. Someone's going to punch him.

2:31:28No. Like, he's just taking dudes to the ground.

2:31:30That stomp. That, like, sidekick stomp.

2:31:32And no idea of anything that they're doing.

2:31:34Just letting him pass guard.

2:31:35Letting him do anything. You don't know anything.

2:31:38He's choking guys with the gi, too.

2:31:39He's grabbing his own collars.

2:31:41I'm like, oh, this is wild.

2:31:43That's one thing I do.

2:31:44Like, I got away from the gi.

2:31:45So, from white belt to brown belt, I competed IBJJF every tournament I could.

2:31:51Would do my weight class.

2:31:52Would do absolute. Get the reps.

2:31:53I love Jiu -Jitsu. But probably around 2011, 2012, I stopped putting the gi on.

2:32:01You know, it was all a mixed martial arts training.

2:32:03Because I was getting, before I would use Jiu -Jitsu to prepare for fights at

2:32:07a small school I was at.

2:32:08But when I went to American Top Team, I didn't need it anymore because I

2:32:10had such high -level guys on the mats at all times.

2:32:13I was doing Jiu -Jitsu no -gi every day.

2:32:15But it's been so many years since I've put on a gi and had, like,

2:32:18a Jiu -Jitsu practice, man.

2:32:20Even the practices I do now are all no -gi.

2:32:22It's fun. I want to get back into gi.

2:32:24Gi's fun. But Eddie Bravo said it best.

2:32:27He goes, if you were a professional tennis player, would you practice for tennis by

2:32:31playing racquetball? No, you wouldn't.

2:32:34Right. You would play tennis.

2:32:35You would do the thing that you do.

2:32:36If you want to get really good at MMA Jiu -Jitsu, you need to do

2:32:39no -gi. Yeah. And he's right.

2:32:41I mean, gi definitely helps as well, but you've got to do no -gi.

2:32:45What gi does is it teaches you that you have to be technical with your

2:32:48defense because you can't muscle out of things.

2:32:50Yeah. But the reality is, like, you should just be technical with no -gi.

2:32:55For sure. That's the thing.

2:32:56Like, get out of the thing.

2:32:57For sure. I always say that the best Jiu -Jitsu is to learn Jiu -Jitsu

2:33:00from a small guy. Like...

2:33:02All technique. Yeah. Like, like a Barrett Yoshida, Hoyler Gracie, Eddie Bravo.

2:33:08Like, learn Jiu -Jitsu from small people.

2:33:10Yeah. Because they're all technique.

2:33:12They can't muscle out of things.

2:33:13Exactly. You learn Brazilian Jiu -Jitsu from some big giant motherfucker.

2:33:16Like, their game is going to be so different because they're so strong.

2:33:20Right. But, like, look at, like, the Sambo guys.

2:33:24Look at the Makachevs and Khabibs.

2:33:26Like, that's the game of no -gi.

2:33:29That's no -gi. It's like their no -gi game is finely polished.

2:33:34Yeah. Finally. It's not going to help them to wear a gi.

2:33:38Right. Their game wouldn't be better.

2:33:39Like, Khabib's game wouldn't have been better if you put a gi on.

2:33:42You never see those guys on their back and guard.

2:33:44It's a different... It's a different speed.

2:33:46It's Jiu -Jitsu, but it's a different game.

2:33:49Yeah. What they do. Small changes on the locks, like we were saying with the

2:33:53darts choke. Grabbing your forearm.

2:33:55They do things a little bit different, man.

2:33:57Even their wrestling, like, is different.

2:33:59It's not collegiate, fundamental wrestling that you would teach at a wrestling camp.

2:34:04It's just chain wrestling that they kind of developed and have their own style, man.

2:34:07It's different. It really is interesting.

2:34:09And then, you know, when I've talked to Daniel, he's like, dude, I've seen Khabib

2:34:13put it on, like, high -level amateur wrestlers in the gym.

2:34:19Put it on them. And I believe it, too.

2:34:21I mean, he's just... His discipline, when he was in his prime, man, his discipline

2:34:26was just above and beyond.

2:34:27His discipline, his drive, his focus.

2:34:30And there's something to be said for those guys, too, because they're super religious.

2:34:33So there's no partying, there's no drinking, there's no chasing women, there's no bullshit.

2:34:37It's just drive, drive, drive, drive.

2:34:40Right. You know, and that collecting the legs that he does with the triangle underneath

2:34:45the legs when he's in the mount.

2:34:46Against the fence. It's so hard to get out of that.

2:34:49Everybody's doing it now. You know, the wrist ride, the handcuff he's doing, everybody's doing

2:34:53it. Yeah. I mean, it's been really interesting to watch, like, these dominant forces come

2:35:01along and, like, sort of remap the landscape of the game, you know.

2:35:06And we've seen it with them.

2:35:07Especially in such a high -stakes game.

2:35:09How do you do it that many times without catching a heel to the face,

2:35:12without catching a knee? Right.

2:35:14You know, the guys he's fought, so many dangerous guys.

2:35:17He's just drowned in them, you know.

2:35:19I know. Well, you know, Islam got caught in that one fight and got knocked

2:35:23out. Adriano Martins. Mm -hmm.

2:35:24Yeah. Right. But it just shows you he's a human being.

2:35:27Yeah, it can happen to anyone.

2:35:28It can happen to anybody.

2:35:29And the Gleason -Tibau fight with Khabib.

2:35:32I feel like Gleason won that fight.

2:35:34Oh, man. I know a lot of people always talk about that.

2:35:36I feel like Gleason won that fight.

2:35:38Me and Tibau have been training partners for some—we beat each other up so much.

2:35:41He's such a fun guy, man.

2:35:42Oh, he's great. Gleason's such a good dude.

2:35:43He's another guy. Like, how the fuck are you 155?

2:35:46So much energy, dude. Never complains about anything.

2:35:49He could have a 50 -pound weight cut smiling in the sauna.

2:35:52Just happy to be here.

2:35:53He just hopes both teams have fun.

2:35:55That's awesome. Yeah. That's awesome.

2:35:57Just a— Happy go guy, man.

2:35:58I watched that fight again because I was like, am I talking out of school?

2:36:01Should I shut the fuck up?

2:36:03And I watched it again.

2:36:03I go, no. I think he won.

2:36:06Was it a split? I don't remember.

2:36:08I don't remember if it was split.

2:36:10But he was stopping takedowns.

2:36:11Yeah. And he was a tank.

2:36:14That guy was a tank.

2:36:17He was big. He was big and jacked.

2:36:20Dude, probably 5 '8", 5 '7".

2:36:23Looked a little saucy. Yeah, maybe.

2:36:26Maybe. Maybe. I don't know.

2:36:29I don't know either. I don't know.

2:36:31Skillful. Super skillful. Solid striking.

2:36:34Solid jiu -jitsu. Oh, great jiu -jitsu.

2:36:36Very good. Everywhere. Black belt in jiu -jitsu.

2:36:39Strong as fuck. And just, you know.

2:36:42They knew from an early age because I think his middle name is Herculino.

2:36:45I'm serious. That's hilarious. Yeah.

2:36:48Herculino. Herculino. Brazilians have some of the funnest necktives.

2:36:52Yeah, he might have eight names, you know.

2:36:53I bet. Yeah. Gleason, Tibar, Alves, Herculino.

2:36:57A few other things that I'm missing, I'm sure.

2:37:00I'm serious, though. Johnny Gleason, maybe.

2:37:02Tibar. I don't know. He has a few names.

2:37:05That's funny. I'm being serious.

2:37:06Really? Yes. He's got a bunch of names that nobody knows?

2:37:08Mm -hmm. That's hilarious, man.

2:37:10Well, at American Top Team, man, you probably have seen more elite talent come through

2:37:15those doors. Shout out to Dan Lambert.

2:37:17Well, Dan's a man. That motherfucker put the money in.

2:37:21Put the time in when there was no money to be made.

2:37:25There was none. That guy was...

2:37:26He just loved it. It was a passion thing.

2:37:27And it's just like what we said with the UFC.

2:37:30We need a rich guy to come along and just throw the money at it.

2:37:33Yeah. Like, that's what Dan did with American Top Team.

2:37:36I remember when he was putting together the new American Top Team facilities and he

2:37:40showed me we're going to have dorms.

2:37:41We're going to have this.

2:37:42I'm like... I was like, this dude's trying to go broke.

2:37:44Like, what are you doing?

2:37:45Dude, it's huge. And that area's crazy expensive.

2:37:47It's on a huge piece of land.

2:37:49I need to get Dan in here.

2:37:50I know I talked to him about it before.

2:37:52But he deserves the credit because that guy...

2:37:55And dude, honestly, him building the gym and asking fighters for 5%, which is crazy,

2:38:01unheard of. Other gyms are taking crazy amounts.

2:38:04He's giving you all these amenities.

2:38:05He's giving you a place to stay.

2:38:06At one point, he had houses as well, fighter houses that he bought.

2:38:10And he would put fighters up in the houses for camps and stuff.

2:38:14Dude, I've heard of him covering medical bills that fighters didn't have money for, never

2:38:19getting paid back. Like, all time.

2:38:21He's done so much stuff, man.

2:38:23Yeah. Good for the sport.

2:38:25Solid guy. Amazing for the sport.

2:38:27And if he didn't put together that super gym, who knows how many of these

2:38:30super gyms would have ever evolved?

2:38:32Because he kind of set the blueprint for what a gym could be.

2:38:37To this day, that's still the best gym in the world in terms of super

2:38:40gyms. I mean, there's just so much knowledge, man.

2:38:41Right. And so much knowledge, so much equipment.

2:38:44It's so big. It's so well made.

2:38:47And you never know who's going to be on the mat.

2:38:48At any time you walk in and do an MMA class, there's literally thousands of

2:38:53mixed martial arts about experience on the mat at any time.

2:38:56Was Robbie his first world champion?

2:39:00I was there for every camp when Robbie came over.

2:39:03I feel like it might have been.

2:39:05Like, there was like, everybody was like, Dan Lambert deserves a world champion.

2:39:08Someone's got to be a world champion.

2:39:09Robbie might have been the first, dude.

2:39:10I think he might have been the first.

2:39:11Well, I mean, Mike Brown was WC.

2:39:13He, yeah. There's been, but UFC champion, I think, Ruthless Robbie Lawler was number one.

2:39:18I remember when he came over, man.

2:39:21Hey, how was Pantoja? Do you know how his elbow is?

2:39:23I don't know how the injury is, but it has to be bad if they're

2:39:25skipping him and going with this other title fight.

2:39:29I know. I was there like two weeks ago.

2:39:31I went down to help some buddies.

2:39:32I spent a week there.

2:39:33I didn't see Pantoja at all.

2:39:34It was so nasty, but what was really weird was, like, when Megan O 'Leary

2:39:39was talking to us, they were saying that he dislocated his shoulder.

2:39:43And I was like, what?

2:39:45What? Like, what are you talking about?

2:39:46His elbow went out. Like, I'm watching his elbow go out.

2:39:48Yeah, it looked like the elbow.

2:39:49And they said, no. But I think the doctor had misspoke.

2:39:53And I'm 99 % sure that it was actually the elbow that went out.

2:39:56Because the elbow clearly moves, and it caves in and gives out.

2:40:01Right. And when that happens, ligaments, muscles, everything gets damaged.

2:40:04But I just don't know the extent.

2:40:05Well, it's too bad because also Pantoja's older.

2:40:08And he's older and dominant in flyweight, which is very hard to do.

2:40:13It sucks at any time to see a fight in like that.

2:40:15Terrible. And especially a title fight.

2:40:17Especially a title fight. Especially on the streak he was on, defending the belt.

2:40:20Like, it just, fuck, man.

2:40:21Not just that, but. And he's such a hard worker and such a quiet guy

2:40:24and just a good dude, you know?

2:40:25He's a fucking savage, too.

2:40:26I think he's one of the greatest of all time.

2:40:28In the post -fight, Dana said something about the shoulder also.

2:40:30They popped his shoulder back in.

2:40:33I thought it was the elbow.

2:40:34Well, it was the elbow.

2:40:36It says it's not the elbow.

2:40:37It was his shoulder. It says elbow as well, though.

2:40:41It's got to be. That's weird.

2:40:42Yeah, follow -up posted there was no ligament damage.

2:40:44But I was trying to find updated.

2:40:47So even if there's no ligament damage, there could be cartilage damage.

2:40:50Oh, yeah, yeah. There could be a lot of other shit that's in there.

2:40:51Anytime something bends the way it's not supposed to, soft tissue is damaged.

2:40:55His weight and Joshua Vann's weight all on one arm posted, and that arm gives

2:41:00out. But damn, dude, when he fought that Japanese cat, who was that guy?

2:41:05Ran through him. When Pantoja did?

2:41:07Yeah. Like, you just see how good he is.

2:41:11When he fought Kaikara France and ran through him, I was like, this dude is

2:41:15on fire right now. No, he's good, man.

2:41:17He's on fire. I think Pantoja's one of the best of all time.

2:41:20And, dude, not loud, not flashy, quiet.

2:41:23He'll walk in the gym, be in practice, you won't notice him.

2:41:26Just working, always. Just does his work.

2:41:27Just working. Yeah, just fucking focused.

2:41:30Just a soldier. I love to see that, though, man, because a few years before

2:41:33he was the flyweight champion, he was driving Uber or Uber Eats, just trying to

2:41:39make him, you know, scrapping to get bills paid.

2:41:42And you see a guy, that's what makes fighting so special, though.

2:41:45You know, like, Teddy Atlas has a speech about it, but it's like, where else

2:41:50can you be from any discipline, any creed, anything, any background, and call yourself the

2:41:56world, the champion of the world?

2:41:57It's true. So powerful. On any given night, you can go against the odds and

2:42:01be a Buster Douglas or be an Uber Eats driver and be the world champion,

2:42:05you know, a couple years later.

2:42:07Like, it's just special, man.

2:42:08Fighting combat is special. It is special, and it is the...

2:42:12end all of all sports like if someone shoots a basket and they make a

2:42:17three -pointer on you you're like okay but i can still fuck you up you

2:42:21know no one says after you fuck them up yeah but i could score a

2:42:25basket on you no one cares dude it's the end of all sports the end

2:42:28of all everything the middle the best middle school comeback somebody can't beat me though

2:42:33yeah can't beat me though that was like they come back for anything can't beat

2:42:35me though like that's the top of the line the best the top challenge exactly

2:42:39the top challenge doesn't matter if you're better at backgammon right yeah you dunked on

2:42:44me but i'll beat your ass yeah beating someone's ass is the that's the end

2:42:47goal that's what all sports aspire to be yeah is combat sports so do you

2:42:53have plans for stuff you want to do outside of fighting now like now that

2:42:58you're retired and now you're settling in be a good dad be a good husband

2:43:03that's my that's my goals always but i have a few other businesses you know

2:43:07i've had for years um i got a documentary you got a great hot sauce

2:43:10got a great hot sauce that hot sauce is good well that's that thank you

2:43:14man it's legit poirier's louisian style hot sauce it's not white label we made this

2:43:19we developed it good dude it's very good thank you i'm proud of it i'm

2:43:22proud of it yeah when you sent it to me i was like okay i'll

2:43:24try it i'm like oh shit it's legit vinegar based vinegar based cayenne pepper very

2:43:29good yeah very good hot sauce thank you yeah i put a little celery in

2:43:32there i can tell you put some work into that yeah i didn't want it

2:43:34to there's so many vinegar based hot sauces on the shelf you know you get

2:43:38lost in that and the shelf space is so hard to get i learned i'm

2:43:41learning all this business stuff as i move forward you know and now that i'm

2:43:45done fighting i get to really see where the hot sauce is because every fight

2:43:48every promotion i got to talk about it and sales always around every fight were

2:43:52great but now we're gonna level off and see what kind of stride we have

2:43:55well it's legit man it's i recommend it highly thank you man very good besides

2:44:00that i have a few businesses in lafayette and i'm really uh getting excited to

2:44:05have a documentary coming out this year the same guys who made my first documentary

2:44:09fightville i don't know if you've seen it came out in 2011 it was on

2:44:13netflix actually did a premiere here at south by southwest uh showtime picked it up

2:44:18but the same company that did that pepper and bones is doing my retirement documentary

2:44:23so they did the whole last training camp filmed they're living in germany so they

2:44:28would fly down stay with in camp they did the whole fight week in new

2:44:32orleans then they came back down for thanksgiving this recent thanksgiving and uh finished up

2:44:38the documentary and they have hundreds of hours of footage unreleased from when i was

JRE MMA Show #176 with Dustin Poirier