The Manosphere Report

0:01Joe Rogan Podcast, check it out!

0:03The Joe Rogan Experience. Train by day, Joe Rogan Podcast by night, all day!

0:12Great. Good to see you, my friend.

0:14Thanks for having me. We're back.

0:15My pleasure, always. Um, lots going on, man.

0:20There is a lot going on, per the usual.

0:23I got fucking allergies, dude.

0:24You hear me? Oh yeah, you sound stuffed up, I was gonna ask.

0:27It's crazy. I was like, am I getting sick?

0:29And then I worked out, I'm like, no, I feel great.

0:32Like, physically, I feel great.

0:34I don't know what's spiking right now, do you know?

0:37I don't know, there's a bunch going on.

0:38Yeah. Everybody's got sore throats.

0:40It's crazy, they say you don't get it when you live here for like a

0:43few years, and then you start getting it a lot, and I was like, I

0:46ain't getting it. And then about four years in, I started getting these horrible sore

0:51throats and stuffy noses. Is there a peptide for that?

0:56When I first moved here, the cedar killed me.

0:59I mean, because Houston doesn't have cedar, so it was pine trees in Houston, and

1:03moving to Austin, the cedar crushed me for the first like year and a half,

1:07and then I got over it.

1:08My body just got used to it, I guess.

1:09Yeah, I think my body has to get used to it.

1:11One thing that does help is colostrum.

1:13I take colostrum, that arm row.

1:15Yeah, you can tell the difference?

1:16Yeah, yeah. Makes a big difference.

1:19Yeah, if you take it a lot, take it every day.

1:22Stay consistent. Yeah, I think all of that stuff, there's benefits that so many people

1:28overlook. I know. So, we were talking.

1:33What's the latest? Man, so I know you just had Secretary Kennedy on a few

1:39weeks ago. Yeah. The latest is, you know, hot off the press as of yesterday.

1:46I know the administration is still working diligently to reclassify peptides.

1:51I know that that kind of got unveiled on the podcast.

1:55Man, that has been a labor of love for the last two and a half,

1:59three years, whatever it's been that we've been trying to get this done.

2:03And I know I said this when I was on here six months ago, but

2:06I'm truly the most optimistic I've ever been, and with reason.

2:11I want to, like, temper expectations, but, you know, the prior administration of the FDA

2:17put these things into place prior to Secretary Kennedy and this administration taking over.

2:22It was almost like a Trojan horse.

2:24They just planted this little bomb in the middle of everything and classified these peptides

2:30as dangerous. And so, for the first time in my life over the last decade

2:38of 20 -something years of being in health care, you know, before Secretary Kennedy and

2:44this group of folks were in a position to drive meaningful change, they made these

2:49changes with the peptides. I submitted 17 FOIA requests, 17, to the FDA.

2:55They have never once responded to a single FOIA request, just asking for clarity about

3:01safety and why did we make this decision, and they're supposedly, by law, required to

3:07respond to this request. So to go from that environment where you're being stonewalled and

3:12you have no accessibility and no line of sight and no answers to anything to

3:17being able to at least have a seat at the table and a voice is

3:20pretty revolutionary. Well, it's just very helpful that he actually uses them, that Kennedy uses

3:26them, and he knows the benefits of them, and he's very educated on it.

3:31That helps a lot. Someone who's actually fit takes care of himself and uses peptides

3:36and understands what millions of people know.

3:40Yeah. I mean, there's millions of people right now that are taking peptides, and it's

3:44radically improved their health and their vitality.

3:47I agree. And I'm one of them.

3:48Yeah. And me, too. Like, again, I was the typical American patient.

3:53I was on the cusp of diabetes.

3:54I was obese. I'm a former fat kid, you know, like everything that could be

4:00going wrong in my late 30s was going wrong because I had bought into the

4:03system and trusted the system and thought, hey, if I could get my blood work

4:07annually and I follow the doctor's rules, you know, the system's just not built that

4:13way. And that's where I think the nuances of peptides are really difficult for a

4:17regulatory body like the FDA.

4:19And so to, like, systematically try to break it down for the folks that are

4:24legacy employees at the FDA, I've had that opportunity thanks to this administration and Secretary

4:29Kennedy and his right -hand girl, Stephanie Spear, has been integral in setting meetings and

4:37trying to move the needle.

4:40Marty McCary, who's the head of the FDA, I had the privilege of knowing him

4:43before he took that role.

4:45We testified together at the Senate level.

4:48And Marty, he really is.

4:50I don't know if – have you ever read his book?

4:52No. It's called Blind Spot.

4:54One of the things that I love is I philosophically agree with everything that Marty

4:58laid out. I mean, what he's saying is dogma and that medicine is so worried

5:04about defending their principles and where they stand that they're essentially ignoring at times science

5:11and they're allowing dogma to rule the day rather than letting a pragmatic, like, authentic,

5:19open -minded view change your perspective and lens on topics.

5:23And so even with this peptide topic, you know, when I had the opportunity to

5:28meet with Marty on this topic, he said, look, Brigham, I didn't really use peptides

5:32in my practice. I was a surgeon.

5:34You know, it's not something that I'm intimately familiar with, but I'm open to understanding

5:39and trying to research and get a better grasp.

5:43And some of the moves that this group of folks have already made at HHS

5:47– I don't know if you're following what they did with testosterone and hormone therapy.

5:51It is literally what you and I talked about at this point I think five

5:54years ago where I came on and said, all the shit you're being told on

5:59testosterone and HRT and hormones, men and women, is wrong.

6:02It's dogma. It's been debunked.

6:05It's not going to cause cancer.

6:06There shouldn't be black box warnings.

6:08The FDA has come to – consensus under this new leadership that that is the

6:13case. And they are working to remove the black box warning on hormones.

6:16They are working to remove the fear mongering around women's hormones and the Women's Health

6:22Initiative and all these things because we now know what we've been preaching for almost

6:27a decade is that these hormones are a crucial building block that allow us to

6:33drive health span. And a lot of the decline that we see in our body

6:37is because of the hormonal decline that occurs in our 40s and 50s.

6:41Could you please expand on the testosterone thing?

6:45Because one of the things that keeps coming up with people when I talk to

6:48friends that are older and I say, hey, you know, you should probably get your

6:52hormone levels checked and consider getting on TRT or at the very least getting on

6:56something like HCG that can increase your testosterone.

6:59It'll really vitalize your health.

7:02They get concerned with prostate cancer.

7:04Yeah. And this is the one that you illuminated and you've helped quite a few

7:09of my friends understand. So please.

7:11Yeah. So all of the fear with prostate cancer literally comes from a study from

7:16the 1930s. And it was a urologist in the 1930s.

7:20The patient population of this study, when we talk about random control trials, there were

7:24three patients in the study.

7:26One patient dropped out. One patient was chemically castrated.

7:29The other patient was normal.

7:31So the chemically castrated patient, meaning they have no testosterone.

7:34So if you treat a patient who has no testosterone and you take them from

7:40zero testosterone to normal testosterone, so to take them from, let's say, zero to 350,

7:46during that climb from zero to 350, you can increase, theoretically, the risk of exasperating

7:56a prostate cancer that's pre -existing was the fear.

8:02But as you push past that level to optimal levels, you begin to insulate against

8:08the risk of multiple cancers.

8:11And all of the studies henceforth have shown there is not one single study that

8:15correlates testosterone therapy to prostate cancer.

8:19With an abundance of caution, some urology practices for patients who have had radical prostatectomies

8:25are reluctant to prescribe testosterone.

8:28But testosterone in no way, shape, or form is causing prostate cancer.

8:32It's a receptor site thing.

8:34So the best way to explain it is you can only water a plant so

8:37much, right? So once we've saturated the prostate receptor sites with hormones, they're saturated.

8:44And then when you push past that to an optimal threshold, you get the insulatory

8:49benefits of cancer reduction that testosterone appears to provide.

8:54And that's why the FDA is looking to change that label and get rid of

8:58the black box warnings on an array of different things that have been dogma around

9:02men and women's hormones. So this initial study, like, why was the one person chemically

9:07castrated? I don't know why.

9:08This is in the 30s.

9:10But since then, here's a really real world example.

9:13With the boom in testosterone therapy, if there was an increased risk in prostate cancer

9:18due to hormones, you would have seen a skyrocket in the amount of prevalence of

9:24prostate cancer in all of these practices that are using hormone optimization.

9:28You don't. You see the same prevalence that we saw prior to hormone optimization and

9:33the boom. And so we have now seen, I think it's one out of eight

9:37men will develop prostate cancer.

9:39I can't remember the exact number offhand.

9:41And that correlates exactly the same into the patient population that is on hormones.

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10:41Kayak. Got that right. Well, the reality is, like, everybody dies with some form of

10:48prostate cancer, right? I don't know.

10:51I didn't know that. Yeah.

10:52I've heard Huberman talk about that.

10:54Interesting. Yeah. Like, you have a certain amount of it.

10:57It's just, like... It really became dogma.

10:59I mean, the study is...

11:00But I understand about the study.

11:01Like, so what was the conclusion of the study?

11:03The conclusion of the study was, if we treat men with testosterone, we'll see a

11:08rise in the precursor hormone that we were worried could correlate to increasing the risk

11:15of prostate cancer. And was this only prevalent in this one person that was chemically

11:19castrated, or was it in the other guy?

11:21Correct. The other guy who had normal testosterone levels had no increased risk.

11:26And you have to push through the threshold.

11:27So think you're at zero, and then you're watering the plant.

11:30Once that plant's watered, it can't take on any more water.

11:33So from zero, no testosterone, which is chemically castrated, you're miserable, you have no sexual

11:38function, you're at increased risk of all these other chronic diseases that can kill you.

11:44But you're insulated from prostate cancer, because you have zero testosterone.

11:48As we begin to raise your testosterone level and saturate those receptor sites, theoretically, the

11:54concern was we're increasing the potential risk of exasperating a prostate cancer.

11:58So how was this whole opinion based on this one study from the 1930s and

12:04just repeated ad nauseum for decades?

12:07Well, it wasn't debunked, I think, until the 90s with famous prominent urologist, Dr.

12:12Morgan Tyler, where he began to do research in his practice on men with prostate

12:17cancer. And he actually began to treat men with prostate cancer with HRT and track

12:22the results. And what he found was there was no...

12:24increase prevalence of prostate cancer and it didn't exasperate or create additional issues and so

12:30that it was debunked in the 90s and then i would even go further to

12:33say you launched i think pfizer launched testosterone cream in like 1990 something i don't

12:39remember and millions of men went on testosterone creams if it was exasperating prostate cancer

12:45you would have seen it then too and so now retrospectively a hundred years later

12:50literally a hundred years later the fda and our regulatory oversight bodies um are now

12:57changing their lens on men and women's hrt it's just so crazy that doctors i've

13:03heard doctors oh i know you have to be cautious about the potential prostate cancer

13:07yeah like where do you get this like and then you tell them and well

13:10there was a study and so this is the study they're talking about three people

13:14one of them dropped out and one of them was kind of chemically castrated and

13:18you got it and that guy didn't even get prostate cancer and so none of

13:21these moving forward um uh dr or admiral brian christine is uh over the men's

13:28health initiatives over at the fda and he's a prominent urologist who has years and

13:32years of practice of using testosterone marty i think even covered uh hormone therapy in

13:38his book blind spot again it's a prime example of the dogma of medicine um

13:43myth becomes reality right and misnomer can be adopted and then it becomes commonplace and

13:50now you go to lectures and symposiums where you hear some prominent guy on stage

13:55regurgitating what he was taught in medical school or she was taught in medical school

13:58and then that dogma just perpetuates and it becomes almost urban legend uh which is

14:04crazy to think yeah that's what it sounds like that's what's nuts it does sound

14:08like urban legend another another another quote that like resonated with me from blind spot

14:14was marty's book was literally uh it's confusing uh what was it dogma with consensus

14:21right when when everyone group think is dangerous when it is considered consensus because group

14:28think isn't necessarily consensus it's peer pressure to adopt the values and belief systems of

14:33your peers and academia and there's an immense amount of pressure to not stray from

14:38the herd to stay within the herd to to back your peers to don't to

14:43toe the line um and we've seen that for the last what 20 30 years

14:48uh if you step out of line and even even back to you know originally

14:52what spurred this were peptides i think a lot of what happened with peptides are

14:57that this system is built under an entire ecosystem it costs 1 billion to 3

15:05billion dollars to bring a drug to market are the numbers that are out there

15:09anywhere from 1 to 3 billion dollars now they're taking into account all the drugs

15:13that don't make it to the finish line but if you really look at the

15:16true cost of bringing a drug to market it's still at minimal 300 million to

15:21a billion dollars to bring a drug or a uh any sort of technology into

15:26the marketplace now that whole ecosystem and structure was built around big pharma and the

15:33pharmaceutical cartels and their attempt to control what hits the market and to protect their

15:39patents and their technologies and so that cost prohibitive process limits uh innovation and accessibility

15:48um under the name of like protection and safety um but in reality a huge

15:55percentage i guess one of the things that academia will say or some of the

15:59naysayers around peptides will say is you know the issue with peptides is there's not

16:04human control trials the issue with peptides is there's not enough safety data um we

16:09recently provided the fda with over 800 different studies that have been done on an

16:14array of the of the 19 peptides that were banned under the biden administration um

16:18we've also made them aware that we've submitted 17 foyer requests to the previous administration

16:23that were never responded to just seeking clarity and answers where were you seeing safety

16:28issues because in clinical practice we just weren't um and and i can tell you

16:35at waste well now we're at over 90 000 patients nationwide and peptides were an

16:40integral part of our of the practice of waste well and we did not see

16:43a bunch of adverse events um the silence i think speaks for itself i think

16:50a lot of it is dogma and confusion and the the process itself of bringing

16:56a drug to market where i was going with that is um i'm not asking

17:01the fda or a governing body to pay for this for patients right it's it's

17:07a nuanced difference that i think even regulators are struggling to wrap their head around

17:11we're not asking for medicare medicaid dollars we're not asking for tricare dollars we're not

17:17asking for the federal government to mandate that employers and employer insurance programs cover peptides

17:23if i'm launching a pharmaceutical drug into the market i'm asking for everything but the

17:27kitchen sink i'm asking for everybody else to cover the cost of my care and

17:32this medication peptides proactive medicine predictive medicine preventative care personalized medicine is all cash pay

17:40it is outside of the existing ecosystem and structure and i think that's what makes

17:46it so difficult to navigate for regulators because it's a new world to them if

17:52i'm coming from academia where i worked at a hospital where i build insurances for

17:57the last 20 years and now i'm working at the fda where everything we do

18:01is giant pharmaceutical companies that love the existing ecosystem because it builds a moat around

18:08their ability to monetize drugs and chronic disease there's a benefit there to play within

18:14that ecosystem but if my goal is to bring innovative products to the market at

18:19a cost -effective price that the average person can afford with their own cash you

18:25can't spend a billion dollars to do that especially when a molecule is readily available

18:30in nature that's where this gets so tricky with things like peptides and stem cells

18:35and all of these products they've kind of been placed in this no -man land.

18:40And they've been convicted of a crime they never committed.

18:43And the truth of the matter is they were put in this no man's land

18:46because they just don't fit in the sandbox of what the system was used to.

18:52Okay, so we should also clarify that when we're talking about peptides and peptides being

18:56dangerous, GLP -1s are peptides.

18:59This is a gigantic market right now.

19:03I mean, you're seeing all these ladies that look like they're cutting weight to make

19:06the UFC flyweight division. You know, it's you're seeing everybody that it's on these peptides

19:13is losing weight. Like, I don't know if Oprah's on them, but she lost a

19:16ton of weight. I know there's, you know, there's a bunch of celebrities that you

19:20see that get Ozempic face.

19:21Yeah. Well, so many, so many influencers too on the academia side go online and

19:27go, I just, I would never prescribe peptides because I'm a board certified clinician and

19:32I only prescribe things that have science and data that back them.

19:37And yet a lot of times I'd say, man, you might just be uneducated on

19:41this topic and the nuances of this topic.

19:45In reality, most clinicians are prescribing drugs off label, right?

19:49So a huge percentage of medical practices use products off label.

19:53It's indicated for one thing or one patient population or a dosage or a chronic

19:57disease state, but clinicians have the autonomy and the authority to use that drug in

20:03a manner that it's not indicated for.

20:05And they do that every day.

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21:13Well, this was the big challenge during COVID, right?

21:16With hydroxychloroquine and with ivermectin.

21:18That was the big challenge.

21:20And the real problem is that it interferes with the potential profits of pharmaceutical drugs

21:25that are approved. So if you give someone the option to take something that's off

21:30-labeled, that's less expensive, and then it finds out, they find out it's effective, that

21:34you'll get less, and then it gets public, you find out there's less people that

21:38are taking whatever pharmaceutically approved drug.

21:40Correct. And so what created this backlash or momentum against peptides, candidly, were the GLP

21:49-1 weight loss drugs. So I do want to put them in two different buckets

21:52because there's the 19 peptides that got moved to the dangerous list with no clear

21:58answer from the previous administration as to why or how.

22:02But what I have seen from being able to get behind the scenes and meet

22:06with lobbyists and legislators at the state and federal level is the lobbying power of

22:10big pharma is real. It's real and it's intense.

22:13And it is not going away.

22:15It's a lot of money.

22:16And so to put myself in the shoes of somebody, you know, like I've gotten

22:21to know Chris Klump really well at the FDA and Chris negotiated the most favored

22:25nation pricing on the pharmaceutical drugs with Lilly and Novo and all these big conglomerates.

22:30And those companies definitively, you know, publicly and privately are banging on the table of

22:36legislators and politicians and saying, look, we spent billions of dollars to innovate these drugs.

22:42We played within the rules of the system.

22:44And now these drugs hit the market and you're allowing compounders and small independent pharmacies

22:52to rip off our patents.

22:54Right. And that's their stance.

22:55And they plant that stake way over here.

22:57If that regulator only hears that part of the story, it's a compelling story.

23:02You're going to go, God, man, poor big pharma.

23:04They spent all this money.

23:06But if you zoom out and you know the lay of the land a little

23:08bit more, which is hard if you don't come from this industry, the truth is

23:13always in the middle. So devil's advocate, of course, you want to protect the patent

23:19rights of a company that spent billions of dollars to bring a drug to market.

23:23We've covered this before, though.

23:24The dirty secret is a large majority of the drugs that come to market come

23:29from the NIH. And phase one trials are done at the NIH.

23:33The NIH is funded by taxpayer dollars.

23:35You and I are paying to innovate and create molecules that then get licensed off

23:41to big pharmaceutical companies so they can bring them through the FDA approval process.

23:46How is that legal? It's nuts.

23:49That is wild. Yeah, it's nuts.

23:51And so I was trying to explain to, you know, the the existing team at

23:57HHS zoom out. The system, as much as you are being told failed and let

24:05big pharma down and allowed people to come in and a fringe and fringe upon

24:08these patents. The truth of the matter is the FDA sent out the bat signal

24:12and said, we can't meet the need of the American people.

24:16There is a backlog on these drugs.

24:19It's on the backlogs list.

24:20Can compounders make these drugs?

24:23This has been a regulatory pathway that's been in existence for 30, 40 years.

24:28It happens all the time.

24:30So compounders respond to the bat signal, begin to make these medications to the benefit

24:35of the American people during the shortage list.

24:38And then you have these big pharmaceutical companies going, look, they're making our drugs.

24:43They're violating our patent. If your concern is that these companies didn't get the juice

24:48worth the squeeze from the patent, Eli Lilly 7x the value of their company they're

24:54worth 800 billion dollars they are they literally are worth more than most developed nations

25:00this was the biggest blockbuster molecule in the history of the world in the history

25:07of humanity there has never been a drug that is this big of a blockbuster

25:12the money was made 50 000 times over nobody was harmed but when i'm a

25:20legislator and i've got somebody telling me these guys heard us to the tune of

25:24seven billion dollars and i know that's what they're telling these legislators because i've met

25:27with the legislators at the state and federal level and then i have to go

25:31well hold on the entire compounding sector only does seven billion dollars glp ones were

25:372 .5 billion dollars i know that's a big number but that was when you

25:41were asking us to make these compounds that number is not nearly as large today

25:45and you also shut down 503bs which is half of the compounding industry's ability to

25:51make these compounds the truth of the matter is it's about 1 .5 to 2

25:55billion dollars total that this industry was able to compound during the backlog in order

26:02to meet the needs of the american people they're going to do 35 to 40

26:06million dollars in just glp1 drugs this year in revenue so you're you're talking an

26:13accounting error for big pharma and the reason i want to lay all that out

26:17is i'm not here to argue about the glp ones it's it sets a dangerous

26:21precedent if if pharma lobbies hard enough and they're able to get this done like

26:26what they want to do reclassifying all these as biologics it allows them to extend

26:30the patent for 10 to 12 years uh it's this whole shell game but it

26:34sets precedent like we covered before and that precedent is dangerous it's a slippery slope

26:39because if you do totally shut out compounders from their ability to make this for

26:44the american people how long before they move to the next thing and in one

26:48breath you've got big pharmaceutical companies saying i'll use lily again as an example because

26:53they're the main culprit lily is saying peptides are dangerous they're getting the api from

26:59china we shouldn't allow these compounders to make peptides meanwhile eli lily just signed a

27:05seven billion dollar deal to acquire a peptide company out of china so lily's buying

27:14a peptide company from china while lobbying government officials and saying it's dangerous to use

27:20products from china and these compounders are dangerous and nobody's regulating it and there's just

27:26all this misnomer and dogma and it's confusing if you don't come from health care

27:31well it seems like it'd be very confusing for a regulator very confusing for someone

27:36who's not educated on this to get up to speed 100 and they have so

27:41many initiatives and so many things they're tackling and then the challenge historically is when

27:46you're big pharma and i think it was like 31 million dollars that that industry

27:50used in lobbying power last year as an industry uh dollars equal accessibility excess accessibility

27:58equals impressionability and impressionability equals outcomes it's like trying to win a debate where i

28:04get one minute and the opposition gets nine minutes and in the one minute i've

28:09got to debunk all the lies that the opposition told not even want to use

28:12the word lies you can use facts but like we've said before they're you know

28:16like facts can be skewed when delivered inappropriately if you say they cost us seven

28:21billion dollars and we spent three billion to bring this drug to market and they're

28:25importing products from china and there's no safety nets and nobody's inspecting them and this

28:30is what we're worried about this is dangerous and this is a liability to the

28:33american public a politician's ears are going to perk up especially when you're lobbying them

28:38and funding campaigns and trying to influence those folks but the truth is yeah you

28:45you if you take into account all the drugs that didn't make it and you

28:48want to cook the books you can make it look like you spent a billion

28:51to three billion you can also take credit for all the drugs that were launched

28:56out of the nih that you bought the rights to and monetized for decades and

29:00then you can talk about safety but in reality there were recalls from both lily

29:05and novo nordisk there are all sorts of array of issues and label changes and

29:10historically even even the fda itself this is one of the things with peptides that

29:14when i met when i had the privilege of meeting with marty mccary about i

29:18said marty if we're being honest this is y 'all's numbers 60 to 80 percent

29:24of the drugs that make it through the drug approval process will have a major

29:28label change or recall 60 to 80 percent of the medications that come through this

29:35process end up having a major label change or recall so what is a major

29:41label change um so they uncover like uh an example with antidepressants depressants they realize

29:49the suicidal ideation in teenagers right and they had to change that label and say

29:52hey not only is this only a fraction better than a placebo right barely differentiates

29:59from placebo retrospectively not even close to exercise i know it's it's literally exercises six

30:04to seven fold more efficacious than an antidepressant how wild is that yeah and then

30:09you go back to the science the science was all cooked books it was all

30:13said that it was sri serotonin related and there was never a single study that

30:18correlated depression to serotonin it was all dogma created by industry and so again marty

30:24talks about this in his book so i know he's aligned with a lot of

30:27these viewpoints when it comes down to peptides though it gets a little confusing because

30:33you're talking proactive predictive preventative care if somebody's taking a peptide to optimize their healing

30:39it's not a chronic disease related issue the system is built to monetize and profiteer

30:46off of treating the symptoms of chronic disease it's become a prescription management system not

30:52a health care system and that's the big challenge this is an entire paradigm shift

30:57that i i don't know if all regulators truly understand um i think they're trying

31:04to wrap their head around it i think secretary kennedy understands it i think you

31:07you A lot of this movement in the American people post -COVID have fundamentally changed.

31:13Like the view that I've seen is people do now question authority.

31:18People do now question just because something came through the FDA doesn't mean it's safe.

31:22And just because something hasn't gone through the FDA approval process doesn't mean that it's

31:26dangerous or doesn't work. A lot of times there's a reason why, like BPC -157,

31:32there's a patent out of Croatia, I believe, on that molecule.

31:36And that patent is, I think, lasts three more years.

31:39Why would you go spend a billion to $3 billion to try and bring a

31:44drug to market that already has a patent?

31:46The other issue with it is a short chain amino acid peptide found readily in

31:50nature. And patent law makes it very difficult to patent what is naturally found in

31:56nature. And that is why the big pharmaceutical companies are struggling with their patents on

32:01the GLP -1s. They have patented dosaging and delivery mechanisms.

32:05They're not arguing against the patent.

32:08If you look at the lawsuits that they filed nationwide, they're arguing against people advertising.

32:13They're arguing against some of the things people shouldn't be doing, rightfully so.

32:18But they're not arguing against the patent.

32:20Let me ask you this.

32:21So, just imagine, and I don't think this is a good idea, but imagine, if

32:26only pharmaceutical drug companies were allowed to make peptides, would they just become illegal?

32:32Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, well, what would happen?

32:35Well, there would be a giant business.

32:36It would be a giant business.

32:37And it is going to be a giant business.

32:39This would raise a little bit.

32:39Yeah, 100%. But also, the availability would skyrocket.

32:44And you would start seeing commercials on CNN.

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33:55And I agree with you, but the fear, and this is what I'm trying, I'm

34:00viewing it as there's three options.

34:02And these are the three things that I've seen.

34:04There's the traditional system, the sick care system.

34:07That system is controlled by insurance, big pharmaceutical companies, and regulators.

34:12Whether intentional or unintentional, the system was cooked.

34:15It's been cooked and baked for a long time, and it is the system that

34:19it is. And we know where that system got us.

34:22That system got us to 1 .7 to 1 .9 million Americans dying every year

34:26of chronic disease, more than every world war we've ever fought.

34:29It's got us to be the most obese and disease -riddled society in the history

34:34of humanity. And we spend more on health care than any other nation.

34:37So that's one option. And then we go...

34:41Just those facts are so crazy.

34:42It's nuts. And to think that to ask questions or to challenge that system is

34:47wrong. And that's where I am.

34:48I'm so... Again, I'm not...

34:50I'm not sitting here... I'm not trying to make this political because I really am

34:55not... I don't care. Conservative, Democrat, Republican...

34:59Chronic disease doesn't care about your political leanings.

35:02It doesn't care. Like, disease and death comes for all of us.

35:07And my goal is how do we prevent it?

35:08How do we delay it?

35:09How do we drive health span?

35:11You don't do it playing whack -a -mole and treating the symptoms of a chronic

35:15disease. You get proactive, predictive, and preventative.

35:18And how do you do that?

35:20Well, you've got to be able to run diagnostic tests and tools.

35:22Well, the insurance companies shut that down and make that really hard to do.

35:27And so in the health care system that exists today, in the insurance model, prescription

35:33management is the main goal of those models.

35:38And I've said this time and time again.

35:40You've got to view health insurance in America like car insurance.

35:44It's there if you wreck the car.

35:46We are great at triaging and treating a catastrophic event, heart attack, stroke, hospitals.

35:52You're in there, something catastrophic happens, we can triage that disaster, and we can get

35:57you in and out of the hospital.

35:58We are absolutely an abysmal failure at preventing chronic disease and driving health span.

36:07And the only way to do that is to get proactive and predictive and personalized.

36:12And this entire ecosystem is just not built to do that.

36:17And so my message and what I'm trying to work for is so much bigger

36:20than peptides. I don't want to die on the peptide hill fighting for this because

36:26it is a small sliver of what could be our health care establishment, right?

36:30When we look at biologics, when we look at gene activation, all of these different

36:35modalities that are on the table, large language models, artificial intelligence, tracking data in real

36:41time, we have the ability to truly drive health span now.

36:46If I have your genetic sequencing and your blood work and your biomarkers and your

36:52DEXA and your VO2 max, and I put all that into the AI algorithm and

36:57we begin to track you in real time in your 30s, we are going to

37:01know years before a chronic disease ever shows up on your doorstep.

37:05The cancer that you get in your 40s started in your 30s.

37:08You know, the diabetes you get in your 30s started in your 20s.

37:11All of this is preventable.

37:13All of this is preventable through diet, lifestyle, and nutrition.

37:16We're not under -prescribed. I think that's pretty abundantly clear.

37:20The average American's on four or more.

37:22prescription drugs. Like, we can't prescribe our way out of this.

37:26Is that a real number?

37:27Yes. The average American is on four or more prescription drugs?

37:31And, which is insane. And it is because we're a prescription -first society, right?

37:36And we've covered this before, so I hate to beat a dead horse, but like,

37:40when a primary care has six minutes on average with a patient, and they're limited

37:44in what tests they can do and what diagnostic tools they can run, and a

37:48woman comes in and says, hey, I'm 40 pounds overweight, I'm depressed, I'm anxious, I'm

37:53sad, I'm all these things, their first move is to go, okay, well, we've got

37:59to get your cholesterol under control, we've got to get your insulin under control, I'm

38:02going to put you on a weight loss drug, let's put you on a GLP

38:04-1, and they push them out the door.

38:05And they probably put them on an antidepressant, because those are the tools in their

38:09tool belt. But if you were to come into a longevity -based clinic, we're going

38:13to run you through a battery of diagnostics.

38:15So many men come in depressed, you're not really, it's not to trivialize your depression.

38:20It isn't that you're depressed, it's that you have a hormonal imbalance, and your hormones

38:24are so wrecked that you're obese.

38:26Are you obese because your hormones are wrecked, or are your hormones wrecked because you're

38:30obese? You know, sometimes that's going to take a nuanced approach and time to uncover,

38:35but we do know we can fix that, you know, and we know that through

38:39fixing those things, there's going to be a cascade of benefits that lead into other

38:43areas of your life. Like, jelly roll is a prime example.

38:45If he were to go to a primary care, they would have immediately put him

38:48on a GLP -1. He's 500 pounds, you know, and they would have put him

38:53on a battery of drugs.

38:55When jelly roll came to us, it was like, we're going to make this simple.

38:59We got to fix your insulin, we got to fix your hormones.

39:02That's it. We're going to get your estrogen under control, we're going to get your

39:05insulin under control, we're going to get your inflammation under control, we're going to put

39:09wins on the board, and we're going to methodically walk you through this.

39:13Because people think that, this is the other challenge even where I was going earlier,

39:18even in the longevity space, the preventative care space, it's already becoming what Big Pharma

39:24was. And this is one of my really big heartburns.

39:27You've got two pathways. The first, the three pathways, the first is the traditional system.

39:32The second is the cash pay model.

39:34Okay, well that's kind of merging into two different arenas.

39:38You've got the Peter Atiyah's a hundred something thousand dollars to be my client that

39:44only the richest Americans can afford, and you're going to get top tier care, and

39:48I'm going to provide concierge medicine.

39:50Well, 99 .99 % of America can't afford that.

39:53And then you've got the hems of the world that are going the route of

39:57a pill mill. Like, candidly, it isn't about quality of care, it isn't about helping

40:02patients solve a problem, it's about monetizing a medication and putting a weight loss drug

40:08or a peptide as fast as possible in that patient's hand so you can monetize

40:13the patient. To me, that's no bigger, different than Big Pharma.

40:16And so my vision for the future is how do we combine the best of

40:22both worlds? How do we take that nuanced concierge care, make it affordable, make it

40:28scalable, and make it truly drive health span?

40:31I don't think the issue is the arrow, the issue is the archer.

40:35It's the people controlling these systems, and always trying to make it about money and

40:40quarterly earnings and an exit and a strategy.

40:42But if you pivot, and you make it about people, and you make it about

40:46how do we help this person?

40:48The journey of 1000 miles starts with the first step.

40:51And Jelly is a perfect example.

40:54If you were in a traditional model, he would come in and you would sell

40:57him a weight loss drug.

40:58And that's the end of your journey with him.

41:01You could get him on a weight loss drug and you hope and hope for

41:04the best and you push him out the door.

41:06In our model, we're there to be a passenger alongside you using large language models,

41:11wearables, and all the things we're bringing into the business to track, diagnose, and optimize

41:16where you're at in real time.

41:19So in real time, we're able to capture how are you trending?

41:22We even added a scale that ties into the app that'll allow you to manage

41:26your, not just your BMI, but literally almost like a DEXA with like a one

41:32to 2 % variability rate.

41:33We can tell you how much lean fat, how much visceral fat, how much subcutaneous

41:37fat, and anyone who's a member gets that scale, scans it into the app.

41:41That combined with your VO2 max, if you come into the clinic, we can cross

41:45-reference it with a DEXA.

41:46The app will do its own algorithms to see how different it is.

41:50And now in real time, from your home, you can track all these modalities and

41:55you can track how you're trending on more than just blood work.

41:59Like to me, everyone, again, when I came on here, whatever, I think it was

42:05five years ago by now, Joe, nobody was doing cash pay blood work.

42:09Now everybody's doing cash pay blood work.

42:11And I think it's great, but it isn't the Holy Grail.

42:15That's just one marker in a sea of markers, one diagnostic measuring stick in a

42:20sea of diagnostic measuring sticks.

42:23So the future for me is how do we make it affordable and how do

42:26we make this where everyone can afford it?

42:28One of the things we're going to do is put our money where our mouth

42:30is. You're going to be able to load your blood work from anywhere.

42:33I don't care if you got it at your doctor, your primary care, if you

42:36got it from HIMSS, if you got it from function health, doesn't matter.

42:40If you want a nuanced approach and help on your healthcare journey, not the first

42:45step, you took the first step, you did the blood work.

42:47Now, what do you do with that data?

42:49What do you do with that information?

42:52Even in the longevity space where I was going with that is so many companies

42:55are trying to let me monetize this blood work.

42:57Let me monetize this test.

42:59Let me monetize this peptide.

43:01But what we should be asking is how do I help this patient?

43:05How do I help this person?

43:07Because if you help that person, they tell the fucking world.

43:10I think the problem is like you're an actual good dude.

43:15You're an actual good person.

43:17And I'm trying. There's a lot of days I don't know.

43:20But you are. I know I've known you for a long time now.

43:23And you really are doing what you're saying.

43:27I know you could be making a whole lot more money than you're making.

43:30And I know you're not money driven.

43:32But that's not the business of healthcare.

43:35That's not the business business of all.

43:36All these different companies, when they exist, especially if they're public, these are public companies,

43:42they have an obligation to their shareholders.

43:44They have to maximize their profits.

43:45And, you know, it's so fucking hippie to say this, the root of all evil,

43:51it's real. I mean, that is a real thing.

43:53Like, there's nothing wrong with money, but there is wrong with the motivation that comes

43:57with money, that you put money above everything else.

44:00I mean, I know Ways to Well is doing great, and I know you're making

44:03plenty of money, but most companies are only trying to do that, whereas you are

44:10trying, legitimately trying to make people, but I know, I see the look on your

44:16face when people get better.

44:18I love this stuff, man.

44:19I know you do. I really love it.

44:20I know you do. And like Denise and I said from day one, I've known

44:22Denise, I mean, 20 -something years, man.

44:26And when we started this, she's my Jiminy Cricket, because even if I ever wanted

44:32to make it about money, she's never making it, that she's such a patient care

44:35advocate. And I said, and she said, if we always make this about people, there's

44:41going to be days we lose, there's going to be days we win.

44:43But if we always make it about people, if we make people our northern star,

44:48that is our secret sauce.

44:49And it doesn't mean we're perfect.

44:51Like, look, every time I come on here, we get blasted because we grow so

44:54fast. And it's a blessing, and I can't thank you enough, but, you know, you

44:58can't onboard 20 ,000 people overnight, and then people are like, oh, you guys suck.

45:03Y 'all are like everybody.

45:04And it's like, no, man, we just, even as we're growing, I'm, this is again

45:09back to that dogma of like, how are companies like HIMS scaling nationwide?

45:14They're PE backed. BlackRock is one of their biggest investors.

45:18HIMS is a multi -billion dollar conglomerate marketing firm.

45:22They're not a compounding facility.

45:24They're not a medical practice with brick and mortar clinics that are trying to truly

45:29innovate and that are into things like biologics and plasmapheresis and all the things that

45:34we're trying to do. I can't compete with the scalability of that, but what I

45:39can compete with and I can destroy is the quality.

45:43Because if we provide quality care and we make sure that we scale at a

45:47level that is true and holds integrity to the patient relationship, that's one of the

45:53biggest things. I saw, I even came on here and there's things that I've gotten

45:56wrong. I thought the fastest way to scale and to meet the needs of the

45:59American people is AI. And I still believe that.

46:03But where I got it wrong and where I think the nuance is important is

46:08I've had this epiphany. AI is a tool, but like all the other tools at

46:14the end of the day, everything always starts with people, everything, the entire human experience

46:20doesn't exist without people. So like there is never going to be anything more meaningful

46:27to a person than another human supporting them, caring for them and being in their

46:32corner. And that is the importance of a clinician relationship.

46:36And having clinicians that are employees of an institution, not hourly people who are paid

46:42to hop on a call and on a Monday, they're pulling babies and on a

46:46Tuesday, they're a testosterone expert.

46:48That is what a lot of these telemedicine companies are now.

46:51And it may provide accessibility, but is that optimal care?

46:55Is that preventative care? Or are we back to that same conundrum of how do

46:59we make a quick buck?

47:00How do we get this guy on a bunch of peptides or girl on a

47:03bunch of peptides? And we push them out the door.

47:05And that is one of the challenges of even this emerging market is people are

47:09compromising pretty quickly. And in even this market, I see the flaws and those flaws

47:15are going to bring out the naysayers and those naysayers are going to use the

47:19bad actors and the bad examples to crucify the industry.

47:22And I'm banging the drum a lot against HIMSS right now, but I tried explaining

47:27this to Secretary Kennedy administration.

47:30HEMS did a Super Bowl ad where they made claims and they used the literally

47:35the GLP -1 brand name of Novo Nordisk drug and violated the law.

47:41And I told the administration, there is no way that a multi -billion dollar conglomerate

47:47would make this mistake. This is the equivalent to somebody coming into your living room

47:53and taking a dump on your dining room table and you assuming that it was

47:57an accident. How do they violate the law?

47:58What do they do? You're not allowed to.

48:00So when you're compounding a medication, you have to use the compounded name, the generic

48:05name, not the molecules name, not the brand name.

48:08So it'd be like saying we have Kleenex for cheaper than Kleenex, right?

48:13And we have the exact same compound.

48:16It's technically, is it the same molecule in theory?

48:20Yes. But in marketing, one, you're not supposed to market if you're if you're compounding,

48:26you're not supposed to market direct to consumers like big pharma does.

48:29So there's a lot of like guidelines.

48:30They spent the money. They got the patent, all of this.

48:32The reason that's important is that Trojan horse was set.

48:37It created an extreme backlash from regulators, both senators, congressmen, congresswomen, politicians from all different

48:45walks of life came out saying this is unacceptable.

48:49All of these people making black market peptides and GLP ones and marketing direct to

48:55our consumers and violating patent laws and infringing upon these pharmaceutical companies.

49:00All of that shakes out statements made by all these varying politicians.

49:05And then what happens within a week?

49:07Hems inks a deal with Novo Nordisk to bring the pharmaceutical drug to their practice

49:13and have a sole source agreement.

49:15So they they set a landmine in the middle of all compounders.

49:19And I'm trying to explain to the administration.

49:21You got to understand they're not a compounding.

49:23They're a multibillion dollar marketing firm.

49:25There's no way this was an oversight or a mistake.

49:28This was by design. And then what happened is the largest run probably in the

49:34I don't in the last decade of any stock price.

49:37Hems is shot through the roof because they inked the deal with Novo and said,

49:42now we're going to provide you with the brand name of the drug after they

49:47had set this landmine off in the middle of all of these compounders.

49:50And so the reason that's important.

49:51Joe is there are bad actors doing things that I think are doing them by

49:56design to damage the industry and to create a battle cry and a resistance against

50:00the folks who are trying to follow the rules and navigate a very narrow pathway

50:06forward where these peptides and these treatment modalities are available to the public.

50:13All the while while they have an agreement with this pharmaceutical drug company.

50:17You got it. The deal was done within two weeks.

50:19So the backlash came a huge uproar against and this is the reason this is

50:24so important is I was literally doing calls with the administration to go hey I

50:29get why big pharma would be upset and they should be and I get why

50:33you the administration would be upset and you should be but please do not punish

50:38an entire industry sector for one bad actor and at the time I was scratching

50:43my head going this just doesn't make sense why would they do this they're going

50:47to get hammered they will not win this in the court of law this is

50:50a terrible idea none of it's adding up so the deal then a week later

50:54they make this announcement and stock roars and you know everyone goes oh congrats hymns

51:01and it's like no this was I I and we'll find out because there is

51:06a there's a huge class action lawsuit now an antitrust lawsuit that's going on I

51:11think Lee Rosebush and his firm brought it for it he's a uh a guy

51:16who's academically trained uh I think ran the the clinic at the Mayo Clinic ran

51:21the lab he's a pharmacist he's a law degree all these things and he's in

51:25in this industry and in this sector and he's asking a lot of questions and

51:29I think his firm filed a lawsuit against him to try and uncover what really

51:33happened there but even if it does get uncovered what's going to change no one's

51:38going to pay attention yeah it'll you know it'll be a blurb in the news

51:41it won't even be in the news yeah you know it'll be online somewhere well

51:45the main reason I want to give that tidbit of information is regulators and politicians

51:50are looking and going god man yeah these guys did bad things no the guys

51:53that were doing the bad things already inked their backroom deal and rode off into

51:56the sunset so now what is left for the rest of the industry and where

52:00does this go and that's a slippery slope and and again separate from peptides separate

52:05from compounds you get into the whole world of biologics and the future of biologics

52:11and stem cells and creating a regulatory pathway and again Secretary Kennedy he tweeted this

52:16I think before or right when he took over save your back save your records

52:19and pack your bags your war on stem cells and peptides are over and I

52:24I can tell you from my meetings now further down the line with the FDA

52:28I have just a more I mean I hate to concede but I have a

52:33more nuanced lens on they're trying to navigate an absolute nightmare of regulatory landscape of

52:42you know the lobbying power the impression the the half -baked truths where does the

52:48truth lie well this is how this entire system's built well this is what we

52:52know well we don't really know cash pay well we don't really right the whole

52:56model is get a drug approved it cost billions of dollars now we've got to

53:00lock in that patent now we've got to let these companies make a bunch of

53:03money on it because they innovated it and we've got to get it on insurance

53:08formularies medicare medicaid and tricare that's a whole fundamental different when you're talking about even

53:13like let's shelf peptides for a second say stem cell therapy my whole mission statement

53:19on all of this is to build a life raft right Henry Ford said if

53:23we would have asked if he would have asked clients what they wanted they would

53:26have said a faster horse right I'm not going to the FDA going guys how

53:30do we solve this problem I think the FDA has enough of their own problems

53:34just trying to manage the system the way it is my vision is you build

53:38a life raft you build a life raft parallel to the existence much like uber

53:42did with taxis and you let this go this way and you dry drag race

53:46it against this way and let's see who can prevent chronic disease well the problem

53:50is it killed taxis yeah that was a bad example well I think well and

53:55the question is which model is going to be better for humanity and which model

54:00is going to take cost out of the system right and so I would tell

54:03a regulator a congressman a congresswoman anybody who will listen guys my model cost you

54:08nothing I'm not asking for taxpayer dollars I'm not asking for any sort of indication

54:14where I can bill insurance companies or I can bill medicare medicaid or tricare what

54:18I'm asking the federal government to do is to trust the sacred relationship of a

54:22clinician and a patient and to allow a patient to have sovereignty and autonomy over

54:28their health if I'm Brett Favre and I'm diagnosed with an advanced stage of Parkinson's

54:33disease and it's a kiss of death why would I want to wait 10 years

54:39for something to make it through the FDA approval process that could change or save

54:43my life today and if I have the means to pay for those things and

54:49the accessibility in a clinician who thinks that they have an answer to slow or

54:54help potentially improve the progression of a chronic disease or an ailment I just don't

55:00think the government should stand in the way of that and the reality is that

55:04the momentum of the current health care system is so strong the vast majority of

55:08Americans are going to use that anyway yeah it's not like it's going to completely

55:13disrupt the system like most people like I mean how many people are listening to

55:19this you know I mean it's still a small percentage of just America yeah the

55:24vast majority of people are just going to trust their doctor and they're going to

55:27do what they've always done they're not going to be aware and it's going to

55:31be business as usual and those companies are still going to grow yeah it's just

55:35they're so greedy they want all of it yeah like by saying they're losing seven

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56:48You know what I mean?

56:49Well, that was my point.

56:50Right, they're not losing any money.

56:52If you give those bad facts to a politician or a regulator, they go, oh

56:56my God. They cost you $7 billion.

56:59You made $800 billion. Your market cap is 8.

57:03You 7X'd your company. Novo Nordisk 3 or 4X'd their company in literally a three

57:09-year time frame. These are some of the most rich and powerful companies in the

57:13world. Your patent worked. It worked.

57:17It upheld. You prevented regulatory landscape from coming in and people taking a piece of

57:22your pie. In fact, I would argue it worked too well.

57:26You know, in a way, like, so to over -regulate based off, and that's the

57:32argument with the GLP -1s in one bucket.

57:34My argument, you know, for allowing compounders to continue to make these patient -specific are

57:40you need to allow patients to be able to titrate up and titrate down and

57:44avoid catastrophic muscle wasting. What about patients who have allergies?

57:48What about the next time these things go on a backlog?

57:51What about a patient who maybe can't handle the delivery mechanism?

57:59I mean, there's dozens of different reasons why you would want to provide an alternative

58:04life raft. Can you explain the titrate up and titrate down thing?

58:08Yeah. So, historically, the GLP -1s came in preset dosages.

58:12Right. And so, patients did not have a way to titrate up or down.

58:18And so, a lot of clinicians who wanted to micro -dose would use a compounding

58:21pharmacy to prescribe those medications and allow patients more flexibility on how they dose their

58:28GLP -1. Because some of the catastrophic side effects come from a large dose.

58:32Correct. Now, as this thing evolves, the question becomes, where do we go with this,

58:39right? Because, essentially, most compounding has shut down GLP -1s, 503Bs, which B stands for

58:46bulk, like big mass production.

58:48I can sell big bulk items to hospitals or to clinics.

58:52The government's come in and said they're not allowed to make the weight loss drugs

58:55anymore. So, it's now limited down to just 503As, which are patient -specific, which is

59:01like what I do. Like, we make medications unique to the patient, personalized medicine.

59:06And so, that's a much more niche percentage of the market.

59:10And, again, even that, you're talking in the heyday, maybe $2 billion for the whole

59:16industry, right? On a company that's, you know, worth $800 billion in 7X their revenue,

59:25everything's going to be okay.

59:26Like, everyone's going to be okay.

59:28Patients had accessibility and affordability.

59:31And I think the battle cry from the big pharmaceutical companies is a little misleading

59:36if you don't know the nuances of all of this.

59:41So, what do you think is the best way forward if you were in charge

59:49of regulating? Yeah. There is an issue with accessibility, and there's an issue with black

59:56market. Correct. Right? There's an issue with people buying peptides online that are not even

1:00:01what they say they are.

1:00:03Like, there's certain peptides that have a physiological response when you take them, like CJC

1:00:07ipamoralin. You can feel it when you take it.

1:00:10I know people that have bought stuff online.

1:00:12They say, I don't think this stuff is legit because it's not doing anything once

1:00:15I take it. I don't feel that, you know, that weird flushing response?

1:00:19They don't feel it at all.

1:00:21And they've asked me for advice.

1:00:23No, I love that you asked because I actually had the privilege of giving this,

1:00:28you know, message to Marty McCary at the FDA and also Chris Klump, who have

1:00:34been receptive to at least hearing the other side of the equation.

1:00:37And to be clear, when it comes to peptides, Chris, Marty, Stephanie, Spear, Bobby, all

1:00:46of them are aligned. Like, peptides, I'm being told are done.

1:00:49It's just a matter of when.

1:00:51I don't have that timeline, but it's a huge win because it goes so much

1:00:56bigger. I cannot stress, Joe, how close preventative longevity -based medicine was to being done

1:01:04because if you shut down all compounders throughout the country and they've already gone after

1:01:09the black and gray market, the FBI has shown up at these people's doors.

1:01:13And if Kennedy wasn't the secretary and if the Maha movement hadn't started.

1:01:18It's over. It's over. It's over.

1:01:20So if Kamala Harris wins, it's over.

1:01:24Yeah. And on that note, even here in Texas, this is where this is crazy.

1:01:29I've gotten to know several of the congressmen, congresswomen.

1:01:33Lacey Holtz, a congresswoman here in Texas.

1:01:36Senator Coelhurst, I believe she's over the health care committee for the Senate.

1:01:40Senator Coelhurst was looking at forming her own FDA for Texas.

1:01:44That's how serious that was getting because they knew that of everything that's happened, where

1:01:50this would continue to head and states were looking to potentially hedge their bet to

1:01:55protect their state citizens from the federal guidelines that could be restrictive or preventative for

1:02:02care, which is crazy to think.

1:02:04So when I laid this out for Marty, one of the things I explained were

1:02:12that here's what the naysayers will say.

1:02:15We don't want it to be the Wild West.

1:02:17You're going to grandfather in peptides and give people accessible.

1:02:20ability to peptides and that would be the wild west and my answer to that

1:02:23is we are living in the wild west today is the most dangerous time it

1:02:29has ever been in the history of peptides peptides have grown legs the cats out

1:02:34of the bag everyone knows what they were they got a taste of the efficacy

1:02:38and the benefits and patients aren't going to stop using them so right now four

1:02:43out of five peptides being filled are being filled through gray or black market solutions

1:02:48when Eli Lilly and Novo throw out a seven billion dollar number where they're cooking

1:02:53the books is they're not telling legislators that a lot of that is gray and

1:02:57black market four out of five meaning there is no clinician in the chain of

1:03:02custody the majority the majority majority cookbook seven billion dollars yes black market correct and

1:03:10and again even in the black market even real and yes and i want to

1:03:15be clear i'm not even in the black market i know and i've validation tested

1:03:20and done independent validation testing of a lot of these companies and some of them

1:03:25are efficacious some of them are real and some of them are not what is

1:03:29the percentage roughly um a large percentage is off like and sometimes dosed higher you

1:03:35know so think about if you were to get like a glp1 and you're injecting

1:03:39a dosage that's 2x what it should be right you could have muscle wasting or

1:03:45all sorts of catastrophic events and this is just because of a lack of regulation

1:03:48correct there's no regulation there's no regulation there's no oversight and these companies attempt to

1:03:53operate through a loophole and that loophole is they claim it's for non -human use

1:03:57um i actually had a call with a really prominent peptide company and their ceo

1:04:03who's an ivy league guy and i get on the phone with this guy and

1:04:06he's wanting to huff and puff and tell me how i don't know what i'm

1:04:09talking about and that he's safe and that he has written legal opinions and that

1:04:14he knows what he's allowed to do and not allowed to do and i said

1:04:17well i can tell you from history what i've seen you are using influencers to

1:04:22advertise for human use you say on your label non -human use but the second

1:04:28somebody has an adverse event and has something catastrophic happen ods or dies the doj

1:04:35is going to show up on your door and when they do they're going to

1:04:39subpoena you and when they do they're going to uncover that you were paying influencers

1:04:43to advertise these products for human use while putting on the label they're for non

1:04:49-human use so you are knowingly and willingly circumventing the safety and the laws of

1:04:55the land to push a illegal compound into a marketplace i'm just telling you how

1:05:01this is going to play out i'm not hoping this for anybody and this was

1:05:05about eight months ago and now it's happened now the fbi has shown up at

1:05:09multiple gray and black market peptide facilities if we're being honest it's 100 because of

1:05:14red or true tide the next blockbuster glp1 that is in the works uh and

1:05:20explain that yeah so red or true tide is it as a triple agonist being

1:05:24developed by eli lily and so it hits three different receptor sites it has less

1:05:29muscle wasting uh much better safety profile lower side effect profile but people drop substantial

1:05:36amounts of body fat and that drug is not on the market it has not

1:05:40made it through phase three trials um it's not commercially available so it we we

1:05:46got a letter as a compounding pharmacy under the fda guidelines telling us it is

1:05:51illegal if you make this and we will come after you so we've never made

1:05:55it because we're a compounding pharmacy that has to follow the laws of the land

1:05:59because the state and the federal government inspect us right before we came on i

1:06:03was telling you the fda has been in our building uh five times in four

1:06:08years the states have been in my building every year and i'm in 47 states

1:06:12so almost every state come we're literally in an inspection all the time um there

1:06:18are plenty of safety nets we independently third -party verify every dosage we buy api

1:06:23from what's called the green list the green list is a list established by the

1:06:27fda that tells us you can buy these pharmaceutical ingredients from these uh ingredient manufacturers

1:06:34what does api stand for uh it's pharmaceutical ingredients it's just the base product used

1:06:39to compound a medication um none of those checks and balances happen in the gray

1:06:44and black market again it's not saying that all those guys are bad or that

1:06:49their product's bad but regardless whether regulated 100 there's there's no regulation there's no checks

1:06:55and balances so if i at least leaves the door open correct it leaves the

1:06:59door open and if i am a patient who wants to get on a weight

1:07:03loss drug and i can just buy it online and not have to go to

1:07:06a doctor and not have to go to a clinic and get blood work and

1:07:10i can just buy it there's no doctor there's no pharmacist it's drop shipped to

1:07:14my house what's even scarier though is there's no dosing instructions there's no way to

1:07:19reconstitute it there's no explanation of how to reconstitute because once they're teaching you how

1:07:24to reconstitute and mix it they're taking part in medical administration and so these companies

1:07:29have avoided all of that and people were using things like chat gpt but now

1:07:34chat gpt and all the large language models have shut that down so now what

1:07:38you have is american people buying random product online with no guidance no oversight no

1:07:45clinician in the chain of custody no no checks and balances no state or federal

1:07:49regulators we are living in the wild west so my message to marty and if

1:07:54you want to fix this how you fix it is you bring back where we

1:07:58were prior to the mistake of the biden administration where they pulled these peptides from

1:08:03the market with no no safety data that can support their actions and you put

1:08:11it back in the hands of trained clinicians you require people to go through the

1:08:16process where they have a clinician and a pharmacist and a compounding pharmacy under the

1:08:21right guidelines regulating the space because we know peptides are safe like they are safe

1:08:28they're 200 peptides are found naturally occurring in the human body these are raw elements

1:08:34that are readily available in nature.

1:08:36The question is sterility, efficacy, and safety.

1:08:41And through the proper checks and balances, we can minimize most of those side effect

1:08:45profiles and optimize positive outcomes.

1:08:48But it requires restoring law and order to the land and implementing things the way

1:08:55they were before the mistake happened.

1:08:57And that's all I've been trying to argue.

1:08:59There's a way to fix this.

1:09:00And if you do that overnight, as much as I hate to say this, you

1:09:05make these big pharmaceutical companies ecstatic because you just got rid of four out of

1:09:10five weight loss drugs that were being filled with no clinician.

1:09:13And you do push it in a way back to the traditional system with the

1:09:19checks and balances that these regulatory bodies are so worried about.

1:09:23And the only argument against that is, well, peptides don't have enough robust human clinical

1:09:31trials with safety data. And then you go down that topic, and I'm like, guys,

1:09:35you do realize, like we said, like 60 to 80 % of drugs have a

1:09:39major label change. These are the drugs that make it through.

1:09:42Separate from that, every product that's in the operating room, I've covered this every time

1:09:45I've been on here, every single 90 % of the products in the operating room

1:09:50never had a human safety study.

1:09:51They were all brought in through the 510k approval process.

1:09:55Doctors are using things every day in practice that are either off -label or not

1:10:02validation tested or have no human safety studies.

1:10:05It is commonplace in medicine every day.

1:10:08So to make it this big to -do that all of a sudden it's dangerous,

1:10:13the most dangerous time we're living in is right now with no checks and balances.

1:10:17If we get this done, you've now built a regulatory pathway that provides affordability, accessibility,

1:10:24personalized medicine, predictive care. It is such a big win beyond a peptide because it

1:10:30candidly saves the industry. I can tell you owning clinic, owning a telemedicine company, owning

1:10:36all of these things, none of that machine works if we can't create products that

1:10:41help people. Right? And so quality products that are available without quality are even worse

1:10:50than quality products that aren't available.

1:10:53You know, and those were our two options right now.

1:10:55It's like they can't get a quality product and then we can't sell the quality

1:10:59product. But this change will allow us to sell safe and quality products under with

1:11:07the proper checks and balances.

1:11:09And it also builds a regulatory pathway that I think sets us up for long

1:11:13-term success with things like stem cells.

1:11:15Well, it seems like such a reasonable concession.

1:11:17You cut out the black market, you regulate stem cells, and you regulate peptides.

1:11:22You regulate everything that's being done through compound pharmacies.

1:11:26Everybody wins. I agree. That's the message that I've had, and I think that's where

1:11:30we're headed. The problem is, I don't think the pharmaceutical drug companies want everybody to

1:11:32win. Correct. They want only them to win.

1:11:35Correct. So any profit that you make or any compounding pharmacy make, in their mind,

1:11:41is stolen from them. Correct.

1:11:44Which is wild. Yeah. And that is the big challenge, is the future of this

1:11:48regulatory pathway, and that's where I wanted to get into the state.

1:11:51And this is something that what we saw with the food lobby, when we testified

1:11:57at the state level for the food program, for the SNAP program, for the school

1:12:01lunch program, trying to align the state with the new goal of the food pyramid

1:12:08and the new food guidelines and get back to eating real food, healthy food, instead

1:12:13of feeding kids crap all day in school, the states picked up the torch and

1:12:18ran with it faster than the federal government did.

1:12:20And the reason that's important is we've now learned the offense.

1:12:24Texas passed the bills, three different bills around food and food initiatives and label changes

1:12:29and protecting children. Arizona followed suit.

1:12:33I think Florida fought multiple states, followed suit, which creates a trade win that allows

1:12:38the federal government to pick up what state legislators have done and mirror those bills.

1:12:43So I say that because I am already working at the state level to do

1:12:48the same thing here in Texas.

1:12:49So my hope is that the federal government and the FDA get this done with

1:12:55peptides. And then the next step would be can we do the same thing with

1:12:58biologics and stem cells, which are amazing tools in the tool belt to drive health

1:13:02span and help prevent chronic disease.

1:13:04The state of Texas is already raring to go.

1:13:07So the state of Texas passed the Compassionate Use Act, which says if you have

1:13:12a chronic disease, or any sort of chronic health issue, you have the right to

1:13:18try. So the reason where it's almost like marijuana law without getting too nuanced, the

1:13:24states, if you, if you have a clinic within the state, and you manufacture the

1:13:28product within the state or compound within the state, in theory, you can administer within

1:13:32the state. And even if the FDA has a different stance on it, the state

1:13:37can have its guidelines and you can fall within the rules and regulations of the

1:13:42state and still honor and respect the rules of the land.

1:13:46Does that make sense? Yes.

1:13:47Okay. So Texas did this.

1:13:50Utah did this. Florida did this.

1:13:53And I just testified in Arizona two weeks ago on the stem cell bill in

1:13:57Arizona. Senator Janae Champ called me and said, can you come out and help testify?

1:14:02And can we do what you guys have done in Florida and some of these

1:14:06other states? And right now it passed through the house and it's onto the Senate

1:14:12and the Senate will most likely pass this bill.

1:14:14And so I say all that to go, the states right now are able to

1:14:18move faster and more nimble than the federal government.

1:14:21And the states are building safety nets and checks and balances that will still allow

1:14:27patient accessibility at the state level.

1:14:30The problem then becomes if we can get the federal government to follow these same

1:14:34guidelines. And we've also submitted, we submitted a citizen's petition to the FDA around stem

1:14:40cells that basically mirrors the Florida law.

1:14:43And the whole message is exactly what you and I have just covered.

1:14:46Guys, these things are safe.

1:14:49The risk of an adverse event is minimal.

1:14:52If it is an adverse event, it's flu -like symptoms, and it impacts basically 10

1:14:56% to 15 % of people.

1:14:58All of the major adverse events you've been told about stem cells come from improper

1:15:03chain of command, improper chain of custody, and improper checks and balances.

1:15:08How do you fix that?

1:15:09You fix that through creating a regulatory pathway with proper checks and balances, proper chain

1:15:16of custody, and a clinician involved in the chain of command.

1:15:19If we do those things, you are going to be able to provide patients with

1:15:24affordable, accessible care of products that work, that are safe, while the federal government can

1:15:30work through, do we make this a billable product down the road?

1:15:34Do we build this into the insurance model?

1:15:36For me to go fight to build this into the insurance model is a monumental

1:15:40task that I don't have the bandwidth to take on.

1:15:43And I also think it's the wrong move.

1:15:46I really do. I don't want to be part of that model.

1:15:48I want to build a life raft that allows patients to make decisions.

1:15:52And the second you put this in an insurance model or a government payer model,

1:15:55everybody is castrated. The decisions are made at the insurance level and at the government

1:16:01level, and it just becomes this nuanced, challenging thing.

1:16:07Like an example is stem cells historically, one of the uses for purified amnion was

1:16:12burn victims, right? Or wound management and diabetics.

1:16:16So what happened? Orthopedic surgeons started billing wound injuries in order to get paid from

1:16:22the insurance companies on an ACL.

1:16:24Well, that only takes a year, six months before the insurance companies ring the bell

1:16:28and go, wait a second, dude.

1:16:29This person billed us a million dollars on wound management and they're an orthopedic surgeon.

1:16:34What is going on? Right?

1:16:35You just committed insurance fraud.

1:16:37And now you've created this counterculture movement against stem cells and purified amnion and all

1:16:42of these products. And that's what happened in real time.

1:16:45So a lot of what we're living is the continual dogma of this broken ass

1:16:51system. And it creates this trade wind that doesn't die.

1:16:55I mean, this was a decade ago.

1:16:57And now none of this stuff's covered from insurance.

1:17:00None of it has an FDA indication.

1:17:02And all of it's kind of put in this gray no man's land, even though

1:17:06it's used in practices every day throughout the country.

1:17:09And now you can legally use these treatments in states like Texas, Florida, Arizona, soon

1:17:16to be Arizona and Utah.

1:17:17And so there is hope because at the state level, it's moving.

1:17:20I do believe Secretary Kennedy and Chris Klump and Marty are very open minded and

1:17:25receptive to this. They are very progressive and they do see the challenges of this

1:17:31system. Marty covers it in his book, like I said.

1:17:33So I'm more optimistic than ever that we are going to get if we get

1:17:38peptides done the next step is to begin to work the citizen's petition to see

1:17:43if we can do the same thing for these biologics and make these things affordable

1:17:47and accessible for everybody. And the thing that's helping the momentum, I think, is that

1:17:53so many people know people that have had stem cell treatment and have had amazing

1:17:58results, like with injuries that they just couldn't recover from.

1:18:02Yeah. And unfortunately, some of them had to go to Panama and had to go

1:18:06to Tijuana and Colombia and all these different places where it's legal.

1:18:09Yep. And that's, I can't tell you how many people that I've talked to that

1:18:14have an injury and say, hey, I'm thinking about going to Tijuana.

1:18:18What do you think? And I say, it'll help you.

1:18:20Yeah. One hundred percent. I've talked to my dad.

1:18:22He went. I talked to my uncle.

1:18:24My grandma went. This person went.

1:18:26That person went. They had results that they never achieved doing any other things.

1:18:30Why is this not available here?

1:18:31I'm like, oh man, it's a long story.

1:18:33Yeah. I can't even start this conversation.

1:18:36I have to go. Well, and what's amazing though, is I'm telling you where we,

1:18:42having got to know Senator Colhurst and Lacey Hull, the representative here, we'll get it

1:18:48done in Texas. Like it's coming.

1:18:50The new bill that we're going to submit in January, I feel confident that we

1:18:55will expand upon the existing legislation around patient right to choose.

1:19:02Because I think it's important to begin to hedge against the power of big pharma

1:19:06and to try to build out a model with peptides and other things that we

1:19:09include in this bill at the state level, just in case, you know, just in

1:19:14case it, not even this administration, I feel very confident this administration is going to

1:19:18get a lot of these things done.

1:19:19But then what happens as soon as there's a change in power down the road

1:19:24and how many years can you fight this lobby, right?

1:19:27It's still alive and well, it's not going anywhere.

1:19:30But I think it's crucial that we fight for sovereignty and autonomy over our health

1:19:34and continue to push. I can tell you at the state level, I'm very, very

1:19:41bullish that it will happen.

1:19:43And what Florida saw is a $300 million infusion of cash into the state of

1:19:48Florida built all around this because it's now a medical tourism destination.

1:19:53And that's my message to these senators and congressmen and congresswomen in Texas is we

1:19:58have a legitimate opportunity to do what you did with the food bill and the

1:20:03Maha movement around these initiatives to drive home these same initiatives on longevity and preventative

1:20:10base care in the state of Texas.

1:20:12We have an opportunity to turn Texas into a medical tourism destination.

1:20:17Can you imagine how many people would visit Austin if we truly do build a

1:20:22proper regulatory pathway with all the checks and balances where people can confidently fly down

1:20:27here and know that they can get these treatments?

1:20:30And not have to have a passport.

1:20:31Yeah. I mean, because this is what's going on.

1:20:33This is why people are going to Panama and all these other places.

1:20:36Yeah. I mean, they're desperate.

1:20:38And so they're willing to leave the country.

1:20:40Yeah. 100%. It would be a way easier to just hop on a Southwest flight,

1:20:45come to Austin, pretty easy.

1:20:47Yeah. A lot easier. And it should be available.

1:20:50And what's really amazing to me with the Maha movement is watching people scramble to

1:20:57find some sort of narrative as to what they're doing is dangerous or what they're

1:21:02doing is bad. Yeah. No.

1:21:03Thank you. What they're doing is somehow or another not the way we should be

1:21:07going, ignoring those facts that you laid out.

1:21:11We are the wealthiest country in the world.

1:21:12We are the sickest country in the world.

1:21:14We've never had more money.

1:21:16We've never been more sick.

1:21:18We've never spent more on health care.

1:21:19We've never been more fucked up.

1:21:21At one point in time, does someone say, hey, this system sucks, but they don't

1:21:28want to. They resist this radical change and this appeal to authority that these people

1:21:33that are in control of all these various organizations, they know what they're doing.

1:21:38They are the experts. We should trust them.

1:21:41They've fucked this whole thing up.

1:21:43How are you trusting them still?

1:21:45What you just said with 60 to 80 percent of them have either major label

1:21:49changes or have the products removed.

1:21:51You think about all the different adverse side effects that are very, very well known

1:21:55from various pharmaceutical drugs. All these different things.

1:21:59How many times does this have to happen before you just want to rip the

1:22:04Band -Aid off and do something different?

1:22:07It's tough because people misunderstand.

1:22:09I think they misunderstand even what you and I are saying because I hear so

1:22:12often people going, OK, it's a conspiracy theory.

1:22:15They want to keep you fat and sick and monetize chronic disease and there's malicious

1:22:19intent. I'm like, no, what I'm telling you is this system was born in captivity.

1:22:24It's broken. There's special interests that are able to influence accessibility and affordability of care.

1:22:31Those decisions have cataclysmic, cataclysmic effects on our health as a nation and on our

1:22:38national security. How many men can even qualify for military service right now?

1:22:4371 percent of young kids can't qualify for military service.

1:22:47It's nuts. And then you look at how many can't even do.

1:22:50I think I don't remember what the number.

1:22:51It was something staggering. Like the average American can't do two pull -ups or something

1:22:54like that. And then you see Secretary Kennedy rattling off 20 -something pull -ups at

1:22:58the airport at 70, which is nuts.

1:23:02But it's not that – I'm not saying anyone – It's not a conspiracy.

1:23:06It's just they are extracting enormous amounts of money.

1:23:10They don't want to stop extracting enormous amounts of money.

1:23:14They want the system to remain as place – in place as is because it's

1:23:20very profitable for them. But it's just not good for us.

1:23:23Correct. And it doesn't mean it can't be profitable still.

1:23:26Yeah. It's just you have to have a workable, functional model that benefits the American

1:23:31people and benefits health. I agree.

1:23:34And that's where I'm like, guys, we don't have to – I'm not saying –

1:23:37if you want to run this system the way you're running it and reform it

1:23:40where you can, I get that.

1:23:42But I also think there's an immense value in building a life raft just in

1:23:46case, just in case. Why is there any pushback to building a cash pay model

1:23:52with a pathway that allows patients to access medications with their own hard -earned cash?

1:23:59Preventative health care instead of sick care.

1:24:01You got it. Sick care that is perpetual and never -ending and ultimately leads to

1:24:06a catastrophic series of side effects.

1:24:09You got it. And I tell people the difference is with a peptide or something

1:24:13preventative, you're coming in and we're optimizing you, right?

1:24:17So, you know, I've taken things like Dihexa.

1:24:20You know, for me personally, I'm not advertising this for other people.

1:24:24But it's like it 100 % improved my neurocognitive function.

1:24:28It 100 % improved my data recall and retention.

1:24:31It moved the needle. And I'm paying with my cash to use something that is

1:24:36doctor -prescribed. And why do I need anyone else's approval for that?

1:24:41I understand the need to protect the American public with safety.

1:24:44And that's where I think improving safety is important.

1:24:48But the second part of the equation with the FDA is approving efficacy.

1:24:52And approving efficacy, unfortunately, with the model is a multibillion -dollar process.

1:24:58Those checks and balances are crucial when you do a set -it -and -forget -it

1:25:02healthcare system. What do I mean by that?

1:25:05You put somebody on Lipitor and the doctor doesn't see them for another year and

1:25:09that patient is blindly trusting that clinician.

1:25:12That is the insurance model.

1:25:14The cash pay model is an educated patient who's taking their health into their own

1:25:20hands. And you better believe me when I say if you don't put a win

1:25:24on the board, they're going to fire your ass because it's their money.

1:25:28Nobody's going to take a peptide month after month after month if they don't think

1:25:32it's doing anything because they're using their money, not taxpayers' money, not an employer's money.

1:25:38The checks and balances are there through the consumer market because it has more integrity

1:25:45than the traditional model. Because this is the only model where if you don't produce

1:25:50for the patient, you're fired.

1:25:52You can't fire your clinician in the insurance model because the insurance model tells you

1:25:57where to go. And this is an important point.

1:25:59Sorry, I'm ADHD, but I'm thinking about this.

1:26:01One of the things that a regulator mentioned to me was, again, I hate to

1:26:05keep bringing up these big pharmaceutical companies, but they were lobbying saying there's a problem.

1:26:09Guys like Brigham, they'll own the pharmacy, but then they also own clinics.

1:26:14And that's vertical integration and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, and that's not fair to

1:26:18a patient. Hold on. If you understand the law of the land, the patient has

1:26:22the right to take their prescription wherever they want.

1:26:26Even if they come two ways too well, we may prescribe it and we send

1:26:31it to me, to my pharmacy, because we compete on price.

1:26:34And I'm going to make this as cost effective and as beneficial to the patient

1:26:37as possible. If I can't compete in an open market and make this affordable and

1:26:42approachable for you, take your prescription somewhere else.

1:26:46But I'm going to provide quality, efficacy, and cost.

1:26:49And I'm going to beat you.

1:26:50Right, you're not going to force people to only get that medication.

1:26:53And what people don't understand is in the insurance model, a patient is told, you're

1:26:57not allowed to go to this doctor.

1:26:59You've got to go to this doctor because they're within your plan.

1:27:02And then they go to that doctor.

1:27:03And that doctor goes, what pharmacy do you want to fill that?

1:27:05Well, it doesn't matter if it's CVS or Walgreens or wherever.

1:27:09The patient's going to have the same price because that price is controlled by the

1:27:12PBM, which is the insurance company.

1:27:15And then that PBM is monetizing that drug through rebate.

1:27:18It is a totally different system that captures a patient, controls a patient, and monetizes

1:27:25chronic disease. My goal is to help you drive healthspan and monetize your health, to

1:27:32help you want to be a willing participant because you feel so good and your

1:27:36mental, cognitive, physical function, your skin, your complexion, what we see is somebody starts and

1:27:44it's not, they start thinking they want to lose weight.

1:27:47Guess what? As soon as a guy like Jelly loses that weight, now the guy,

1:27:50I was on the phone with him this morning, he's running five miles talking to

1:27:53me on the phone. This was a guy who was 500 pounds, man.

1:27:57This is a guy who couldn't walk up his driveway.

1:27:59And now he has life again.

1:28:00He's bow hunting. He's like getting into these hobbies and these things.

1:28:04When he goes and spends money on a peptide, it's not because it's pseudoscience or

1:28:08it doesn't work. It's because he's a living example of the impact it's made on

1:28:12his life. And he is knowingly and willingly opting in to continue to see how

1:28:18far he can push this healthcare journey and how much more optimal he can get.

1:28:22And in real time, unlike traditional medicine, we are tracking all of this shit.

1:28:29We're tracking you via DEXA.

1:28:30We're tracking you via VO2 max.

1:28:33We're tracking you via wearables.

1:28:34All of that vertically integrated in real time.

1:28:37And then we're culminating that data across the patient population.

1:28:41So imagine when I get to a point in a dream world, what I want

1:28:45is 10, 15 million patients nationwide.

1:28:48We're tracking all these data analytics.

1:28:51We know that every man with a gene marker of P452 who went on testosterone

1:28:57saw a market improvement in REM sleep, right?

1:28:59This is all the type of data we can extrapolate.

1:29:02But to do that, you've got to have the tools.

1:29:05You've got to have the peptides.

1:29:07You've got to have the biologics.

1:29:09You've got to have the diagnostic tools like comprehensive blood work.

1:29:13Another huge missed thing in healthcare, I believe, is gene sequencing.

1:29:18Less than one in 1 ,000 people have ever had their genome sequenced.

1:29:23We've only sequenced, I think, one in 1 ,000 animals.

1:29:27Genetics is in the infancy of what it's going to be.

1:29:33And a real world example of that is somebody like Gordon who we've been trying

1:29:36to help. And sorry, I know I'm dumping a lie.

1:29:39I want to be clear.

1:29:40I'm not a doctor, right?

1:29:42I'm just a guy who's trying to solve problems.

1:29:44And everything that I talk about today is not me being a bro science or

1:29:50me trying to be an influencer or the things that people try to say.

1:29:53Everything I discuss comes from my mentors.

1:29:58And my mentor is my chief science officer, Ian White, 22 years stem cell research,

1:30:02Harvard and Sare Stem Cell Institute.

1:30:06Mari Dazawa, who discovered mu cells from Japan and is one of the pioneers in

1:30:13stem cell research. Mari is an absolute badass.

1:30:17Dr. Deutcher, Stanford graduate, stem cell research, longevity specialist, Ryan Rossner, PhD, worked for DARPA.

1:30:26I'm talking to brilliant people.

1:30:28And I'm doing my best to learn and distill down what I'm gathering from these

1:30:32folks in a manner that's digestible for Neanderthals like myself.

1:30:36That's all I'm trying to do.

1:30:37You guys at Ways to Well are also incorporating a bunch of other therapies.

1:30:42And I want you to talk about those, too.

1:30:44Yeah, I would love to before I lose the real quick on the genetics, because

1:30:49I'm super excited about this.

1:30:50So one of the things we're building into the app.

1:30:52So the next generation of the app, which will come out in a few weeks,

1:30:55we're just trying to improve on the simple simplicity of use, the ability to get

1:31:00refills, vertically integrating into a pharmacy, because so often patients will fill a prescription, go

1:31:06to a pharmacy they don't know.

1:31:07Then they come back and they go, well, where am I in the refill?

1:31:10And where is it out in the process?

1:31:11And when does it get to my house?

1:31:12And what about this? And what about that?

1:31:14And I can't remember what the doctor said on the phone.

1:31:16That was the whole point of Alan, the chatbot that I showed you years ago.

1:31:20Alan is a resource in your pocket.

1:31:22And Alan is there to pull from your medical records, to pull from your chart

1:31:26in real time to answer any question about what happened on that phone consult with

1:31:31that clinician, because all of that's annotated and put into the system and documented.

1:31:36And so Alan is there to help answer and fill in the gaps.

1:31:39And where I was going with this earlier is through large language models and AI,

1:31:43we're going to be able to scale concierge medicine.

1:31:46We're going to be able to scale it in a way like never before that

1:31:50allows patients to get that high touch, high quality care, but for pennies on the

1:31:56dollar. Like my goal is to make this as cheap as possible so everybody can

1:32:00afford it. And that's the goal with stem cells too.

1:32:03But it starts with regulatory pathways and de -stigmatizing these treatments and building a pathway

1:32:10that everyone can afford. And so one of the things we're looking to add to

1:32:14the app is gene sequencing.

1:32:16There are 20 ,000 genes.

1:32:19Most people don't have any clue what genes they have.

1:32:22And the reason that's important and what my buddy Ryan Rossner will tell you is

1:32:26he's a geneticist is your genes are the software that are telling the computer how

1:32:32to run. Is this the guy that I met at?

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1:33:21And he worked brilliant. Worked for DARPA.

1:33:24Tons of experience at the bench and in the lab doing genetic research.

1:33:30The stuff he did for DARPA was crazy.

1:33:32I mean. I mean. I mean.

1:33:32I mean. I mean. He starts telling you, you know, one of the things he

1:33:34said is we're in an era where we can build real -life X -Men.

1:33:38Like, we can build X -Men.

1:33:40There's a gene editing injection that can make your bone mineral density eight times stronger.

1:33:47What? Yeah. I mean, there's— Like, you could do that?

1:33:51It's—you can't legally do it in the U .S.

1:33:53right now. Are they doing that in China?

1:33:53These are things that they're doing.

1:33:54Are they making Russian super soldiers right now?

1:33:56This is the challenge. It's China and Russia are pushing the envelope with all these

1:34:00things. Does that change your body mass?

1:34:02It'd be interesting. I didn't dig in with him on that, but— But it would

1:34:06have to, right? You would 100 % think it's going to change your BMI because

1:34:09your bone mineral is going to be much thicker and more dense.

1:34:12You'd probably be a lot heavier.

1:34:13So it's going to change your DEXA scan and your readings.

1:34:17Yeah. Whoa. But the future, to me, is— I want that.

1:34:20I'm telling you, the future is— I want to run through walls.

1:34:22There's a random Google on that.

1:34:23It's a Reddit post that says there's a mutation that causes bones to become eight

1:34:27times denser than normal. Oh, shit.

1:34:29But the tradeoff is not being able to swim.

1:34:31Well, I can barely swim right now as it is, man.

1:34:34So here's what's wild. I sink like a fucking stone as it is.

1:34:37It's a real problem. Where one of the things that he's enlightened me on, because

1:34:41I'm not a geneticist. I don't know anything about that world.

1:34:44He's like, dude, if you do a gene sequencing test on a guy like Gordon

1:34:47Ryan, maybe there's a gene that's causing him to have these stomach issues.

1:34:51So we run the full gene sequencing on Gordon at Ways to Well, and it

1:34:56comes back. And, you know, offhand, I remember there's a couple of really interesting stuff.

1:35:01Gordon has a gene that is like one in 10 million that makes your tendons

1:35:07more dense and more resilient.

1:35:10So stronger, more rigid tendons that are able to—are more resilient to damage.

1:35:17Boy, does that make sense.

1:35:19Yeah. He has that gene.

1:35:20He also has a gene that makes his propensity to have bone mineral density higher.

1:35:25That's why his bone mineral density is higher.

1:35:26That's why his bones don't break as easy.

1:35:28Those are some of the positives that are in his firmware, his software that's running

1:35:33the biology that is Gordon Ryan.

1:35:34Now, some of the downside—and this is a really cool one because we've been trying

1:35:38to help Gordon with this gut health issue for years, and it's this constant battle

1:35:42of, you know, he's getting staph.

1:35:44Now he's on antibiotics. Now his gut health's wrecked again.

1:35:46And a lot of that comes down to he has a gene marker that puts

1:35:50him at a predisposition to get staph.

1:35:53He has a weakened immune system.

1:35:55So now he's in an environment where he's being exposed to a chronic issue, and

1:36:00he has a predisposition to not be resilient to that issue.

1:36:04And then he also has a gene marker that makes his gut health more acidic.

1:36:11And so these are like rare genes, and he happens to have these anomalies.

1:36:15So it's like in one hand he has this perfect, won the statistical lottery genetic

1:36:20traits that put him in a position to potentially be an amazing grappler and athlete.

1:36:26But then he has this Achilles heel of his predisposition to infections and his body's

1:36:32gut health and gut biome issues are all in that gene.

1:36:36They're all in the software.

1:36:37And so the premise that Ryan and what we're trying to evolve and build out

1:36:41is 20 ,000 genes. Most people don't have any clue what any of their genes

1:36:47are. We're taking all of the knowledge that Ryan and these geneticists have, and we're

1:36:53trying to automate it using the large language models and AI and build that into

1:36:57the Waze Dwell app. So alongside with, you know, the VO2 Max, the DEXA, go

1:37:02get those anywhere. I'm not trying to sell you these things.

1:37:05I just want the information so I can help you.

1:37:09I don't give a shit.

1:37:10Go get your blood work from whoever.

1:37:12If you can get insurance to cover it, do it.

1:37:14If you can get insurance to help you with a VO2 Max or a DEXA,

1:37:18do it. They're not going to, but shop it.

1:37:20Find the best place for you.

1:37:22And then if you have that data, when we launch the new app, we can

1:37:25load all that into the large language models.

1:37:27We can load in your gene sequencing.

1:37:30We can begin to look at you at a much broader level to try and

1:37:35figure out where are you headed and why.

1:37:38What gene dispositions do you have, and how do we help you navigate that?

1:37:44That's predictive medicine. That's personalized medicine.

1:37:49And nobody's doing anything with genes right now.

1:37:52It's great. Everyone, we just got people sold on being able to do blood work,

1:37:56and people are acting like that's the holy grail.

1:37:59And, like, I'm a believer in blood work, but it's a snapshot of you in

1:38:02time, right? That's a moment of you in time.

1:38:04What did you eat that day?

1:38:06How did you sleep the day before?

1:38:07When did you take your testosterone?

1:38:09Like, there's a million variables that can throw off your blood work.

1:38:12You can't lie on a DEXA.

1:38:14I mean, that's a real analysis of your visceral fat, your subcutaneous fat, how much

1:38:19fat's packed in around your organs.

1:38:21We're going to know all that.

1:38:22How much atrophy is on your left bicep versus your right bicep?

1:38:26All of those things. Like, Liam Harrison was just in.

1:38:29I know you and Liam are buddies.

1:38:32He was shocked because he has that one bum knee from all those years of

1:38:37Muay Thai, and the fighters just started picking off his knee.

1:38:39What's crazy is he thought he would have less muscle on that knee than that

1:38:43leg than the other leg.

1:38:44Because he's overcompensated and trained it so much, he had more muscle mass on the

1:38:49bum leg than on what he thought was his strong leg.

1:38:52And so he was, like, shocked by that.

1:38:54But it's fascinating because it's just data, right?

1:38:57And that data gives you the ability to navigate.

1:38:59And it gives us a blueprint.

1:39:01Because now with that data, I know things like we know how much bone mineral

1:39:07density you're going to lose year after year once you reach a certain age.

1:39:10We can begin to quantify that and model out your vertebral risk fracture risk, you

1:39:17know, your hip fracture risk.

1:39:18How do we preserve bone mineral density?

1:39:20Like, it allows us to quantify, are the hormones and these things helping preserve lean

1:39:25muscle mass, keep the body fat off, and optimize bone health?

1:39:29All of these things. And with what this FDA is doing with men's health and

1:39:34women's health and fertility and the direction it's headed, I really think we have the

1:39:39potential, if we pull this off, to enter a golden era of health care.

1:39:44I really believe that. But it is going to require thinking.

1:39:47unorthodox. It is going to require a cash pay model.

1:39:50I don't think we can overhaul a system and build in all these different modalities.

1:39:56I don't think we could get it done in a decade.

1:39:59You know, I really don't.

1:40:00And then how many lives are lost in that time?

1:40:02That's where I'm pleading for.

1:40:04Let's build a cash pay model that is a life raft that's an alternative.

1:40:08And let's build a pathway that makes sense.

1:40:11That maybe is a more nuanced approach to driving health span.

1:40:15Because I know for a fact, Secretary Kennedy has said his goal is to leave

1:40:19a legacy that transitioned our broken sick care system into a health care system, into

1:40:26one that prevents chronic disease rather than monetizing chronic disease.

1:40:30That has literally been the mission statement since the day we opened our fucking doors.

1:40:35I'm like, that's all we're trying to do.

1:40:37And I love it because then you get into the fun shit.

1:40:39Like, where do we go with all this gene activation?

1:40:43And where do we go with like the ability to optimize humans, right?

1:40:47Rather than just trying to keep you from being sick, we should strive to make

1:40:53you superhuman. I mean, that's really my belief.

1:40:55Like, why do you want to have normal hormones when you can have optimal hormones,

1:40:59right? Normal bone mineral density when you can have optimal bone mineral density.

1:41:03That's what I'm talking about.

1:41:04So let me ask you this about the gene stuff.

1:41:07What, what do they do?

1:41:09So if they find out that you have an issue, you have some sort of

1:41:13a genetic issue that prevents you from doing X, Y, or Z, what can they

1:41:17do with your genes? So it varies by gene, but it gives us, it gives

1:41:21us the reason to try and understand, oh, okay, this is why this has been

1:41:28a repetitive issue. And it begins to give you answers to the test.

1:41:32So you're not taking a shot in the dark.

1:41:34And those answers will allow us to hopefully tailor and develop nuanced treatments.

1:41:39Now the future is they're able to turn off and on genes like a light

1:41:43switch. Um, I don't know if you saw, like they just, uh, there was a

1:41:47whole article about, they discovered that whales have a protein unique to whales and they

1:41:51live over 200 years. And they think this protein could be one of the keys

1:41:56to driving human health span and longevity.

1:41:58And it's basically the premises.

1:42:00Can we synthesize and utilize this, uh, gene to turn on the gene in humans

1:42:06and have us secrete and produce a higher level of this protein or this amino

1:42:10acid? And would it drive our health span and reduce our risk of cancers?

1:42:14Um, all of those things.

1:42:15So the question becomes, as we evolve, uh, what genes can we turn on and

1:42:21turn off? You know, what is the regulatory landscape of the future look like in

1:42:25America? China and Russia are already doing these things, right?

1:42:28And so even if we attempt to fight the evolution of science, I think we're

1:42:35going to look back in a decade and go, I cannot believe we put people

1:42:38on petrol chemicals to solve problems because we're going to be able to go in

1:42:42and turn off or on a gene and fix that problem, right?

1:42:46At the cellular level, the biological level, you're going to be able to fix and

1:42:50remediate so many of these issues.

1:42:52Um, that's all they're doing with the bone mineral density is they're turning on a

1:42:56gene that tells you to increase your bone mineral density.

1:42:58Or when you look at the, uh, the fall of statin, you know, that they're

1:43:03using in cattle, that's just a gene signal that tells your gene, Hey, turn on

1:43:06and you're going to put on muscle.

1:43:08And for a six to, I think it's a six to 12 month timeframe that

1:43:12statin, that fall of statin gene will be turned on and you'll put on muscle.

1:43:16Um, and then at the end of that, that it gets turned back off.

1:43:20So it's like temporary turning on a white light switch.

1:43:23And then that light switch will, will eventually revert back.

1:43:26So this, this, uh, Jamie bring back up that thing with the bone mineral density.

1:43:31Does it prevent you from being able to swim just cause you're heavier?

1:43:36Is that the idea? I'm assuming that's what that's saying because you're adding so much

1:43:39weight and mass to the body.

1:43:40Like think about French bulldogs and bulldogs can't swim, uh, because they're so dense.

1:43:45Well, pit bulls can swim.

1:43:46Yeah. Pit bulls can, but French bulldogs and, uh, English bulldogs will, will drown.

1:43:51Um, yeah, they don't have enough arm strength and muscle mass.

1:43:54They're so dense and heavy.

1:43:56Is that what it is?

1:43:57Or is it their legs are so short?

1:43:58It's both. They don't have the ability to move the, to move enough momentum of

1:44:02that denseness of their body composition.

1:44:04Cause little Carl's jacked. You ever see Carl?

1:44:06Yeah. Carl is like a little water though.

1:44:09He might not like being in the pool.

1:44:10He's smart. Well, Marshall's like soft.

1:44:14Marshall's very soft. He swims like a fish.

1:44:16He loves swimming. Yeah. That dog just, he could swim for hours.

1:44:20That's so funny. He doesn't have any.

1:44:21Yeah. My French, he loves water, but, uh, he, he can't swim.

1:44:24So he'll go in the shallow end, but he's smart enough to not get off

1:44:27the step. Like he, he, he knows.

1:44:29Oh, that's interesting. Yeah. So I would imagine also there would be, so what's this?

1:44:36I'm just looking at the comment.

1:44:37This didn't have a link or anything.

1:44:38It was literally just a picture of an X -ray.

1:44:40So like not a lot of information to pull off of that.

1:44:42Unable to swim is weird.

1:44:44But I don't even know.

1:44:45Was it because it's more difficult to swim because you're heavier?

1:44:49Because like my kids can swim, you know, because, you know, my daughter, my 15

1:44:56year old might weigh 120 pounds or something like that.

1:44:59150. I weigh like 204.

1:45:01I go in the water.

1:45:02I just sink. I can't float.

1:45:05Yeah. It's, well, you don't have any body fat either.

1:45:07It's dense. It's all muscle and bone.

1:45:08It's a struggle for me to swim.

1:45:10Yeah. You know, but I, I wonder like if, is it, so if your bones

1:45:16or have more or they're more hollow, does that help you swim because they're more

1:45:23hollow? Like, does that aid in swimming?

1:45:25It's what's so fascinating to all this to me is, so then you've got, so

1:45:29getting to meet all these different scientists, right?

1:45:31You got Ryan who was working for DARPA.

1:45:33And then I know Ian who's been 20 years of stem cell research and Ian

1:45:37in his book talks about that.

1:45:39We share a common ancestor and I've covered this before, but Ian hypothesizes within our

1:45:45genetics, we share an ancestor with the eternal jellyfish.

1:45:49We share an ancestor with the Galapagos tortoise, with the Greenland shark.

1:45:53Greenland sharks don't develop cancer.

1:45:55They live 500 to 600 years.

1:45:57The jellyfish lives eternally. All of those black boxes are within.

1:46:01If we can find those through gene sequencing and we can identify which gene is

1:46:06doing that in the animal kingdom and cross -reference that to our own genetics, the

1:46:11question then becomes, can you either insert that gene into humans or is that gene

1:46:16available and can you turn it on?

1:46:19And what's the side effect?

1:46:20Correct. So individuals with unexplained HBM had an excess of sinking when swimming.

1:46:27What is that number? 7 .1136.

1:46:30What does that mean? Adjusted odds ratio with 95 % confidence.

1:46:34Mandible. So it says excess of sinking when swimming.

1:46:38So it just seems like it's more difficult to swim.

1:46:40Yeah, I think it just makes you harder.

1:46:41Because you're heavier. Yeah, you're more dense.

1:46:43It's more difficult for me to swim.

1:46:44Associated dysplasia. Skeletal dysplasia. That's not good, right?

1:46:53Many may harbor an underlying genetic disorder affecting bone mass.

1:46:57This was just a study based off of a high bone density.

1:46:59This wasn't specific to that.

1:47:01Which just makes sense that they sink more.

1:47:04This is stuff that's in its infancy, but I just think it's fascinating.

1:47:07Right. Well, that Brian Shaw dude, that guy can't swim.

1:47:10There's no fucking way. That guy must sink like a rock.

1:47:13Because didn't he have the most insane bone mineral density tested?

1:47:17They said his bone mineral density is one of 500 million.

1:47:23That's so crazy. So there might be like, what, eight people, ten people on Earth

1:47:27that have that? Yeah. That's so crazy.

1:47:30And that, I mean, but that's probably genetics and also training, right?

1:47:35Yeah. He's obviously a strong man, so he's been lifting enormous amounts of weight.

1:47:38And there's crazy, so they've done, what is it, Devin Lorette?

1:47:42Do you know Devin? Yeah, sure.

1:47:42Okay. Arm wrestle. Yeah. Devin came into the clinic.

1:47:45He's done his gene sequencing.

1:47:48And it's crazy. Like, the guy has so many genes that are just statistically impossible.

1:47:56It's like, was this guy built in a lab?

1:47:59To arm wrestle. It's crazy.

1:48:01Like, he has that same tendon gene.

1:48:03He has the bone mineral density gene.

1:48:04He has some very, very unique genes.

1:48:07And so part of this is just like the knowledge and the excitement of what

1:48:11can we do in the future.

1:48:13I don't know. But today, I think, you know, knowing your software that you're running

1:48:17on, it's crazy to think that everyone knows which version of the iPhone software they've

1:48:21got. You got a 7 point whatever.

1:48:23But we don't know what code our body's running on.

1:48:26But here's the question. These genes are inherent to you from birth?

1:48:30Or is anything a result of training?

1:48:34The genes are inherent to you at birth.

1:48:37And then you do have epigenetics.

1:48:39And epigenetics are impacted by your body, by activity.

1:48:43Right? So you may have a predisposition to developing cancer cells.

1:48:49Right? That's unfortunate. But you may have that.

1:48:51But that doesn't mean definitively you're going to develop cancer.

1:48:53It just means you can now make lifestyle and behavioral changes to minimize.

1:48:58So if you have a predisposition to that, you probably shouldn't smoke cigarettes all day.

1:49:02Right? We should probably try to – if you have a predisposition to weak bone

1:49:07mineral density, right? We should probably make sure that we never let your hormones drop

1:49:11in your 40s where you begin that initial decline in the cascade effect.

1:49:16This gene mutation seems to also have a other side effect of vision loss because

1:49:22it causes some eye vascular issues.

1:49:25Interesting. Yeah. And this is one example of genes that they were looking at, I

1:49:30think, at DARPA and some of these other projects.

1:49:33These aren't things being utilized in medicine today.

1:49:36But this is the direction of the future.

1:49:38I really do believe that.

1:49:39They're going to solve a lot of these genetic traits and be able to figure

1:49:43out how to turn off and on these traits.

1:49:46Right. Certain variants in LRP5 gene interfere with eye blood vessel development, causing familial exudative

1:49:55– what's that word? Can lead to vision loss.

1:49:58It's vitro -retinopathy, which can lead to vision loss.

1:50:03Mutations can cause varying clinical presentations ranging from asymptomatic high bone density to severe skeletal

1:50:10fragility or blindness. Whoa. Calling that a fever is pretty tough.

1:50:14Yeah. Somebody confused. One of the – man.

1:50:19So one of the other – you said treatments that we're doing.

1:50:22One of the things that I think is the most exciting thing that I have

1:50:25come across, and I know – I think you know where I'm going with this.

1:50:28One of the things in my entire time in healthcare is the muse stem cells.

1:50:33Yeah. So I don't know if you want me to talk a little bit about

1:50:37that. Kind of – so for the listeners, because of you, candidly, I get approached

1:50:44all the time from scientists, from doctors, from people going, hey, I've got this thing

1:50:47that's going to change the world.

1:50:49And I'm like, yeah, sure you do.

1:50:50And you just never know.

1:50:52So I had a company reach out, and they're like, hey, we would love to

1:50:55meet with you. We have a sub -phenotype of stem cell that we think is

1:50:59going to change the world.

1:51:01And so I called Dr.

1:51:02White, you know, who's my chief science officer, and I have him vet these folks.

1:51:08And he's like, man, I don't know.

1:51:10It sounds too good to be true.

1:51:11They're like, we would love for you guys to fly to Japan, meet with Mari

1:51:15Deswana, and hear her lectures and tour the lab and kind of see what she's

1:51:21been doing since 2010. We reviewed all the research, all the data, all the literature,

1:51:27and it was mind -boggling.

1:51:30So Ian and I hopped on a plane and went to Japan back in September

1:51:33and sat down with Mari, and she was gracious enough to break down all of

1:51:39her research, answer Ian's questions.

1:51:41And I'm going to be clear, like, we went there to debunk this shit.

1:51:46We thought there's no way that this is what she's presenting.

1:51:49It's just, it just seems too good to be true.

1:51:53And after sitting through those lectures and Mari enlightening us on all of her research

1:51:59and what she's seen, I left there with Ian, and he looked at me and

1:52:03was like, if this is real, this is going to change everything in the regenerative

1:52:09space. And Ian, I think, won Regenerative Scientist of the Year last year in North

1:52:13America. He won some... big award for this space and Ian is a stem cell

1:52:20scientist and but these muse stem cells are such a rare subset phenotype of stem

1:52:26cell and so the best way to explain it is to try and break it

1:52:32down in like layman's terms is muse stands for multi -lineage and that se of

1:52:38muse stands for stress enduring so what does that mean in like real world talk

1:52:44Mari in her book where she writes about these cells and how she discovered them

1:52:49she was in the lab she had she kept coming across this small outlier subset

1:52:54of stem cells that appeared to have a lot of unique qualities but they were

1:52:58less than two percent of stem cells so stem cells that are already a very

1:53:02minute amount of the cells in our body have a subset phenotype called muse she

1:53:08had to rush out to a dinner where in Japan where she ended up eating

1:53:11sushi and having sake and forgot to put the cells back at take them off

1:53:16the petri dish and put them back in cryopreserve she thought she'd go in the

1:53:19next day and everything would be dead when she went in because the cells don't

1:53:22last overnight she goes in the next day into her surprise all of those subset

1:53:27phenotype of cells were still alive a large majority of them were still alive and

1:53:31she thought that can't be possible and that was in 2010 and that's what began

1:53:35her research into what are muse and so without getting too in the weeds uh

1:53:41i'd love to like break down what it is what makes it unique and why

1:53:45it's so promising if you're game yeah because it's super cool um first and foremost

1:53:50in medicine they say uh do no harm right and so when we're lobbying and

1:53:56trying to educate these politicians and these regulators on the safety profile of traditional mscs

1:54:02traditional stem cells are extremely safe and i've said this on your podcast before uh

1:54:08dr kaplan who discovered traditional mscs in an open letter to the scientific community apologized

1:54:14and said i should have never called them stem cells because the problem with these

1:54:17cells is they don't differentiate they don't become anything that only happens in a petri

1:54:22dish but in the body they just signal to damage and then they transfer their

1:54:27mitochondria and they temporarily give your body an environment to heal faster and to recover

1:54:32so they aren't truly regenerative in that they don't become a tendon they don't become

1:54:38a neuron um and there's pros and cons to that the pros are they don't

1:54:43become a cancer cell and that's the concern with pluripotency and so the holy grail

1:54:49of what people have always looked for with stem cells where could we for lack

1:54:53of a better term fuck with these cells enough in a petri dish to create

1:54:57pluripotency where they can become something but prevent tumorigenic behavior where they don't become a

1:55:03tumor or don't become a cancer lo and behold in 2010 what mari discovered was

1:55:10this ultra resilient subset of stem cell that holds those exact traits it was in

1:55:16us all along it's always been in us this wasn't created in a petri dish

1:55:20this is biology this is the stem cell answer that has eluded scientists for decades

1:55:29and it is so exciting because the multi -lineage what does that mean multi -lineage

1:55:35just means these are pluripotent cells pluripotent multi -lineage is a bunch of fancy science

1:55:40talk for they can become anything so the way i explain that is you and

1:55:46i talked about this years ago orthopedic surgeons would go you know i use bone

1:55:50marrow stem cells and i don't really get good results and i think that you

1:55:54can't get real stem cells because those cells have an identity and when you take

1:55:59bone marrow the cells have already become a bone marrow cell and they're not going

1:56:03to differentiate and become something so heretofore they can't heal there's some truth to that

1:56:08they couldn't they could just help regenerate uh or help i guess optimize your body's

1:56:14healing through bringing down inflammation and potentially transferring mitochondria into your old tired weary cells

1:56:20where these cells are fundamentally different is think of it like a kindergartner a kindergartner

1:56:26can be anything the world is that child's oyster if they want to grow up

1:56:31and be a doctor they can be a doctor if they want to grow up

1:56:33and be an astronaut they can be an astronaut the traditional cells that doctors and

1:56:38clinicians have been using in america they're already grown up they've already chose their identity

1:56:43they already went to med school and they decided they're a doctor you can't put

1:56:47those in the body and have them become something because they've already developed their identity

1:56:51their phenotype these cells will literally go into the body and take on the phenotype

1:56:57of any damaged cell that what is so amazing and crucial about that to understand

1:57:04is if they come across a torn tendon cell they become that tendon cell if

1:57:09it's a bone marrow cell they become a bone marrow if it's a neuron they

1:57:13can become a neuron and the process that they do it through is also pretty

1:57:18fascinating it's a commonly known process but phagocytosis don't say it three times fast it

1:57:23can get cancelled but like phagocytosis essentially and even in that layman's term is like

1:57:29think of it like a pac -man this is how mari described it to me

1:57:32um because she knows i'm an idiot and she's like trying to break it down

1:57:35in a way i can digest she's like i want you to think of a

1:57:38pac -man think of a damaged cell like a neuron this pac -man's going to

1:57:42go up gobble up that neuron through the process of phagocytosis and take on all

1:57:47of the characteristics and code of that cell meaning it will become a young healthy

1:57:54version of the damaged cell so one these cells are extremely safe in that they're

1:58:02non -tumorgenic um in studies these cells had no never became tumors in any of

1:58:11the studies that are ever done it furthermore they treated mice that had pre -existing

1:58:15cancer they did not only not exasperate the tumors in many of the studies the

1:58:21tumors shrunk and i'm not here to say like it's going to cure cancer or

1:58:25anything like that the message is traditional mse's are already extremely safe and these mscs

1:58:33appear to be even as safe if not more safe and the only knock on

1:58:39traditional mscs in real world application when utilized appropriately is um they have an immuno

1:58:46modular modulatory uh immuno immunity response essentially where 10 to 15 percent of people will

1:58:54get flu -like symptoms and that's with traditional mscs which is a very low safety

1:58:58profile what you saw like effective safety profile what you saw with the muse cells

1:59:04in trials is zero percent literally right now nobody's even getting flu -like symptoms and

1:59:10it's because these muse cells go above and beyond uh immuno uh like the ability

1:59:17to navigate your immune system and go into immunomodulating your immune system so what do

1:59:22i mean by that mari did a study where she took mice sutured in human

1:59:27livers into the mice's liver the mice should reject that and die they implant new

1:59:33cells in and the liver will accept the human liver for a period of time

1:59:37they eventually rejected the liver but it's able to immunomodulate so think about this for

1:59:42a simple way to explain it is the whole process i broke down before like

1:59:46when a mother's pregnant that baby is it is technically a foreign body in the

1:59:50mother so what in science stops that mother's body from rejecting and killing the baby

1:59:55and her immune system attacking the baby the answer is mscs the answer is the

2:00:02the juices of life that allow that mother's system to immunomodulate and not turn on

2:00:09the baby so not only does it build up the mom's immune system and helps

2:00:13the mom reduce inflammation reduce like her risk of chronic disease and in all mortality

2:00:20cause is at an all -time low while pregnant um the risk of cancer is

2:00:24at an all -time low while pregnant all of this goes back to mscs and

2:00:28now we believe potentially muse cells and so they're safe they're non -tumorgenic uh they

2:00:35immunomodulate meaning your body's not going to reject these cells you're not going to have

2:00:39a huge risk what's crazy is they're already using it in plastic surgery this is

2:00:43what i said they would take uh historically instead of women were using fillers and

2:00:48the reason they use fillers instead of fat is fat lacks angiogenesis and those fat

2:00:52cells die and a lot of times the success rate's not as high so what

2:00:57they're doing in dubai and these other nations is they're using muse when they do

2:01:01a reconstructive surgery to reduce the risk that you have an immune response that rejects

2:01:06the fat tissue so it encourages the body to accept that tissue and then helps

2:01:11those cells build themselves back into your system and uh immunoregulate so think about it

2:01:18for the future of like organ transplants what this could mean uh if the science

2:01:22holds in practice of what they're seeing but for the sake of conversation today the

2:01:27point of saying all that is extremely safe no risk of tumors uh non -tumorgenic

2:01:34um immunomodulating meaning your body's not going to turn on it it's not going to

2:01:38cause any sort of inflammatory response or flu -like symptoms so one of the safest

2:01:43versions of stem cells we've ever seen and the traditional cells are extremely safe themselves

2:01:48and then you get into the pluripotency i mean this is the first cell uh

2:01:53other than the cells that have been altered um that can truly become something um

2:02:00and then the the fourth and final thing that's really amazing about these cells is

2:02:05their honing abilities so traditional mscs what we've been using at waste well for the

2:02:10last five years um it even with the great success we've had they literally have

2:02:17a three to five percent engraftment rate meaning three to five percent of those cells

2:02:22make it to the site of damage and begin the healing process in the site

2:02:26of damage and think about the results we've gotten now look at muse muse have

2:02:32a 15 to 30 percent engraftment rate muse are literally half the size of traditional

2:02:39mscs and they have the ability when administered intravenously to pass the lungs and make

2:02:46it to the site of inflammation and damage they hone in at a much stronger

2:02:51rate than traditional mscs so the way to think of it is like you're taking

2:02:56a heat seeking missile that's able to find exactly where the s s1p sp1 uh

2:03:02inflammation damaged cell is it's the signal that a cell sends out hey i'm damaged

2:03:07these mu cells will navigate straight to those damaged cells through phagocytosis absorb that cell

2:03:14take on its phenotype and be a young healthy vibrant version of that cell and

2:03:19all this occurs within three days so that's why you're seeing such crazy results in

2:03:26dubai and overseas and these are the treatments that are coming into the u .s

2:03:31um that are going to be manufactured here on u .s soil and utilized in

2:03:35in states right now like florida texas arizona and the states that have built pathways

2:03:40that make this approachable for people um the hope is that we can build a

2:03:44regulatory pathway at the federal level that will allow accessibility too because what is definitively

2:03:50clear is these treatments even the old mscs and purified amnion and wharton's jelly and

2:03:57all those things there's no arguing that they're extremely safe i mean there's 30 40

2:04:01years of data on these products they're they are safe they are available in nature

2:04:05they occur naturally the question is how efficacious are they what disease states can they

2:04:11help with and how much can they move the needle and that's where this gets

2:04:15tricky because the fda doesn't want people out there making claims and i understand that

2:04:18because there's so many people who are snake oil salesmen and my thing is i'm

2:04:23not here to make a claim i'm just here to say accessibility is important because

2:04:27for the people who don't have any more lifeline left who knows what this could

2:04:33do for them for the patients you know battling some sort of neurocognitive issue you

2:04:39know these cells are able to pierce into the midbrain i mean and i have

2:04:43all these jamie a bunch of these studies i have list On Ways to Wells'

2:04:46website, just so I'm not throwing random stuff out there, I think I listed seven

2:04:52or eight of Mari Dazawa's studies that back everything that I'm saying.

2:04:58But the premise is, you know, the future's bright, and I think that Muse will

2:05:03be an integral part of what we see here in the United States in the

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2:05:39When we're talking about genes, these obviously are in the body, these cells.

2:05:45Is there a potential future where they could just turn these things on and not

2:05:50have to add exogenous stem cells?

2:05:54So the problem is you have a precipitous decline as you age, right?

2:05:58And so just like what we're seeing with peptides, you have a certain amount of

2:06:02these, and as you age, they appear to decline.

2:06:04The other thing that, this is crazy, so you've got this scientist, Dr.

2:06:10Dominic Deutscher, out of Germany.

2:06:12Brilliant guy, Stanford trained, went to Stanford, did research at Stanford, went to Harvard, University

2:06:19of Munich, crazy background, 14 years of stem cell research.

2:06:24He catches wind of what Mari's doing, and he had been working on a study

2:06:29going, there appears to be this weird subset of stem cells that I can't figure

2:06:34out what they're doing, but they're not there in diabetic patients.

2:06:38When I look at patients that are diabetic, they don't have this subset.

2:06:43So what is this subset and what is it doing?

2:06:46But he couldn't figure it out.

2:06:48He was on the cusp of figuring it out, and then he meets Mari and

2:06:52goes, oh, my God, you literally figured out what the fuck I've been trying to

2:06:57solve for the last 14 years.

2:06:59The reason is these patients are diabetic, and their system is so chronically riddled with

2:07:05inflammation and all these issues, the environment or whatever it is, their lifestyle caused the

2:07:12decline and basically the end of these cells.

2:07:15All their ability to heal was used up.

2:07:19Is that part of the reason, other than just blood flow and the other challenges

2:07:23of diabetics, it could be one of the under -causing attributes that are causing these

2:07:31diabetic patients to heal poorly, to be chronically inflamed.

2:07:35So it could be part of that equation.

2:07:37But what's fascinating is it also declines as we age.

2:07:41So you're going to see way more of these at birth, way less of these

2:07:44in your 30s, probably nonexistent by the time you're in your 40s and 50s.

2:07:49And so if we can take these cells, these goodies of life, and we can

2:07:53administer them proactively and preventatively, they even did mitochondrial testing.

2:07:59I don't know if that study is released yet.

2:08:01But if it is, I'll add it to the website.

2:08:04I'll find out from Mari.

2:08:05But they did a mitochondrial function test.

2:08:08One IV bag administration took one and a half years off the mitochondrial age.

2:08:12Whoa. And so I'm not saying that it reverses aging, but in these studies, it

2:08:16appears to have extreme mitochondrial benefits, which would logic to reason as to why we're

2:08:24seeing such phenomenal results with these treatments.

2:08:26And I'm still a huge proponent of all of the traditional stuff we've been using.

2:08:32We've seen miraculous results with all of these different modalities.

2:08:36But I look at Muse and go, this is the holy grail of what we've

2:08:40been trying to find. And Mari did it.

2:08:43Like, she found it. She discovered it in 2010.

2:08:46They started using it in human patients in 2019.

2:08:50These products are being used every day in Dubai and overseas.

2:08:55People are flying over there and paying buku dollars to these clinics to get treatments

2:09:00with Muse cells. In fact, one of the sheiks of United Arab Emirates or one

2:09:05of those, his son got in a car wreck.

2:09:07He literally was in the hospital.

2:09:10This is a true story.

2:09:11They said, he's done. Pull the plug.

2:09:14Harvest his organs. Dominic was able to get a hold of the hospital.

2:09:19The German scientist. And say, hold on.

2:09:21Can you guys do a call with Mari?

2:09:23I may have a solution.

2:09:24They treated a kid who had been comatose, non -responsive.

2:09:31Take his organs. Like, he's done.

2:09:33The neurologists are like, he's done.

2:09:34There is no brain here anymore.

2:09:37They treat this kid with intravenous Muse cells.

2:09:40And his brain function has come back.

2:09:42He's not talking. But he's responding to his mother.

2:09:45He's moving his hands. They're no longer looking to harvest his organs.

2:09:49And this is a catastrophic example.

2:09:51But in a more real world, relevant example is in Japan.

2:09:56They used it with children who were born with encephalitis.

2:10:00And what they saw is these children who are left untreated will definitively have neurocognitive

2:10:10issues and defects, mental retardation.

2:10:14And the children treated with Muse within eight days of birth, all of those children

2:10:19had normal brain function. Wow.

2:10:22All of them. And so the studies beyond that, and then you get into what

2:10:26they saw in hearts, what they saw in myocardial infarctions.

2:10:30Like you just go down the list and there's so much promising data and there's

2:10:36a decade worth of it.

2:10:38It just hasn't made it into the U .S.

2:10:40yet. And these are technologies and science and science and modalities that are going to

2:10:47be adopted in the near future at minimal at the state level and then hopefully

2:10:52at the federal level. Because they're already looking, we know, like I said, Secretary Kennedy

2:10:57is looking to open the regulatory pathway.

2:10:59for stem cells, and mu's are just a subset of that same class, but an

2:11:06even safer, more efficacious version from what we're seeing in all of the trials.

2:11:10And what's so exciting is that as more research develops, more of these things are

2:11:15going to emerge. Yep. They're going to keep the gene therapies, mu's cells, it's going

2:11:20to continue to compound. Well, and then you've got guys like Ryan who go, if

2:11:25you could take a mu's cell, a cell that could be anything, right?

2:11:29And it already has, it's ready to learn, what if you can take a mu's

2:11:34cell and you can teach it to be exactly what you want it to be,

2:11:37and then you administer that cell into the body, but you've already given it its

2:11:40commands. You've already taught it that it wants to be a doctor, right?

2:11:43It wants to be whatever it is.

2:11:45Maybe you make sure that it's a neuron.

2:11:48Again, I'm way over my skis on this part because I'm a business guy.

2:11:52I'm just breaking down what these scientists are saying, and all of it is exciting

2:11:57and promising to me because, again, we've had such phenomenal results with traditional MSCs, you

2:12:05know, with traditional MSCs, and all mu's are, are this subset phenotype of super soldier

2:12:10cell. They're more resilient, and so the second part of mu's is stress enduring.

2:12:15So what the whole point is, Mari has a chapter in her book called Sake

2:12:20and Science, because through drinking sake, she realized that there was an element of the

2:12:26science behind this that she would have never uncovered had she not gone to that

2:12:29dinner. She would have never realized that these cells appear to be ultra resilient.

2:12:35They can ship these cells at room temperature, and they're viable for weeks, whereas traditional

2:12:41cells, we've got to keep cryopreserved and ship on dry ice.

2:12:45So from an administration standpoint, from a logistical standpoint, from an efficacy standpoint, from a

2:12:51safety standpoint, all of this could be so game changer.

2:12:55So then the next question just becomes, how do we build a regulatory pathway in

2:12:59this country that allows accessibility so that Americans aren't having to go to other nations?

2:13:06And some of the states are doing it, but ideally, it would be optimal to

2:13:11work with the federal government to build those same pathways at the federal level now

2:13:17that the states have already jumped on board.

2:13:19God, that's so fascinating. Such a cool time.

2:13:22Dude, it's awesome. I'm telling you, and the stuff, it's hard because, again, I'm not

2:13:27a clinician. I don't ever, I'm not, I don't want to make claims.

2:13:30I don't want it to be, I am very excited about this, but I want

2:13:33to temper my excitement because I have to be cautious to say, I don't want

2:13:38to give people false hope.

2:13:39You know, we don't know.

2:13:41The science is very early, but it is very promising on a lot of different

2:13:45things. And we've already had immense success on orthopedic injuries, knees, shoulders, elbows, using traditional

2:13:51MSCs that can't differentiate, right?

2:13:54They're just transferring mitochondria and temporarily putting your body in a position to heal.

2:13:58These mu cells differentiate. So they literally are regenerative cells that become the broken cell

2:14:05that allow your body to heal.

2:14:08I mean, and what we do with that and what the future holds with that,

2:14:13the sky's the limit. And that's why I just think eventually we're going to get

2:14:19to a point where it's like, did we really prescribe everyone petrochemical drugs to fix

2:14:25problems? Because the genetic side of the world and the stem cell side of the

2:14:29world and the biologic side of the world and all of these things, and then

2:14:32you break in the large language model side and wearables and the ability to track

2:14:37in real time. But also this is where you're going to find the resistance because

2:14:40there's so much money in the petrochemical drugs.

2:14:43Yeah. Well, and this is what's challenging with the stem cell stuff even.

2:14:47Like, if they don't work, people are not going to spend their hard -earned paycheck,

2:14:53right? And that's the challenge.

2:14:55Like, I understand the FDA stance on safety.

2:14:58And again, the historic FDA stance on not even this new administration.

2:15:01This new administration has made it clear their plan is to open up the regulatory

2:15:06pathways on peptides and stem cells and cash pay products and to figure out a

2:15:11pathway that makes sense for the American people while still honoring the safety and integrity

2:15:17of what they're trying to implement on a grander scale.

2:15:20But do we need to go through the level of rigorous, you know, multi -billion

2:15:28dollar process on something that can't really be patented?

2:15:32Or if it's safe and the safety profile is proven and it's readily available in

2:15:37nature, does it make sense to grandfather these treatments in and to allow patients compassionate

2:15:42use, right? If you're battling a chronic disease and you're going to die, what is

2:15:47the harm in seeing if this can help?

2:15:50If you're battling dementia or Alzheimer's, you know, that's another huge one.

2:15:55Like, traditional MSCs are too big to pass the blood -brain barrier.

2:16:00Muse MSCs can be internasally administered and immediately go into the blood -brain barrier.

2:16:06And in trials, they were able to see the Muse cells 18 months later lit

2:16:12up like a Christmas tree in the midbrain.

2:16:14The reason that's important is midbrain is where Parkinson's and so many of these neurocognitive

2:16:20disease states reside and where most of the dysfunction is occurring.

2:16:26And so, yeah, there's a lot of promise.

2:16:30I'm excited about it. I think Muse are going to be a big opportunity here

2:16:34in America to drive meaningful change.

2:16:36It's just a matter of, you know, when and how they're available and to what

2:16:40capacity. Um, you're going to see these things springing up at the state level.

2:16:45They're already happening all over outside the United States.

2:16:48Um, it's just a little bit different market here with the regulatory landscape.

2:16:53Well, that's what's so frustrating is that they are being utilized effectively overseas.

2:16:58Yeah. And you think about how many people do have people that are in the

2:17:01hospital, do have chronic illness, do have these problems that could be fixed here.

2:17:06Yeah. And like, let's get it going guys.

2:17:08Yeah. Yeah. I'm telling you, man, like it's a, it's super exciting.

2:17:14Yeah. It's super exciting. Hopefully, it's not too boring for the listeners.

2:17:16It's complicated stuff, so I want to try to break it down.

2:17:19It's fun. It's not boring at all, man.

2:17:20Don't apologize. Is there anything else you want to cover?

2:17:23No. The other is just, you said some of the treatments.

2:17:27One of the ones that I heard Dana White talk about, and he had said,

2:17:30well, you got to go to Mexico, is plasmapheresis.

2:17:33We have plasmapheresis here in Austin, Texas.

2:17:37We added it to the clinic, I guess, three months ago.

2:17:42Plasmapheresis is also known as therapeutic plasma exchange.

2:17:46Essentially, we run your blood through a dialysis machine.

2:17:49It's been used for over 50 years.

2:17:51It's used at the Mayo Clinic.

2:17:52It's used at all of these various academic institutions.

2:17:56It just hasn't been used for longevity.

2:17:59In an insurance model where you're trying to get a reimbursement rate, you've got to

2:18:04have an indication. But in a cash pay model, and this is where the world

2:18:07is your oyster. In a cash pay model, a clinician and you, the patient, can

2:18:12make a decision that you want to get proactive and predictive, and you want to

2:18:17run your body, your blood, through a plasmapheresis machine and basically isolate out within the

2:18:24plasma itself, the liquid, are all the inflammatory markers, all the leftover bad stuff that

2:18:30you don't want in your blood.

2:18:32So for me as a 45 -year -old male, I've got 45 years of all

2:18:35the attrition and stuff that's in my system, you get 70 % of that out

2:18:40through one therapeutic plasma exchange utilizing the plasmapheresis machine.

2:18:46And so what we'll do is we'll extrapolate out systematically your plasma and replace it

2:18:51with young, healthy protein called albumin.

2:18:54And then where we go, an additional step at WasteWell is we're developing a protocol

2:18:59where we also add in the MSCs and peptides and all of the things that

2:19:08are missing from albumin, right?

2:19:10So there's two different train of thoughts.

2:19:12And I have these listed too, Jamie, on the website.

2:19:15There's a bunch of different studies.

2:19:17Plasmapheresis has been studied for over 50 years.

2:19:20It's just not been utilized for like longevity and preventative care.

2:19:24It's used more for systematic inflammatory issues.

2:19:29There's even a bunch of fascinating studies around Alzheimer's because Alzheimer's and dementia is so

2:19:35inflammatory related. So there's a bunch of fascinating stuff on that.

2:19:39But the premise of plasmapheresis is think of it like an oil change for your

2:19:43body. We're going to take out 70 % of all the bad stuff that's floating

2:19:48around in your blood. We're going to replace that blood with young, healthy albumin.

2:19:52And then, you know, what we're attempting to do is stack it with our own

2:19:56protocol where we add in MSCs, extracellular vesicles, all of these cellular goodies that are

2:20:02readily available at birth that have a precipitous decline as we age.

2:20:06What is this? Can serial therapy, lower right corner, plasma exchange, remove synthetic chemicals from

2:20:12humans? So is this like BPCs and that kind of shit?

2:20:15What it's, yeah, what it's doing is, it's, it's, the goal is to remove all

2:20:21the extra stuff that's in your system that you don't need.

2:20:23And this study is pretty interesting because it breaks down what they saw.

2:20:26Here's a real world example.

2:20:28Our mutual friend, Philip Franklin Lee.

2:20:31And I, and I asked him if I can talk about this.

2:20:33Look at this. Compounds such as bisphenol, plasticizers, and phthalates.

2:20:38Yep. Endocrine disruptors that are associated with the intake of ultra processed foods due to,

2:20:42at least in part to their packaging material.

2:20:45So this is the stuff that Dr.

2:20:46Shanna Swans talked about that are endocrine disrupt, endocrine disruptors.

2:20:50So crazy. Philip, and he's talked about this on his podcast.

2:20:55Philip came in chronically tired, super low testosterone.

2:21:00I think, I can't remember the exact number he talked about on his podcast, but

2:21:03he was shocked at how low his testosterone.

2:21:05It was like 80 or 90.

2:21:06It was really, really low.

2:21:08We did a microplastics test and he had the most fricking microplastics that we've ever

2:21:14seen. Well, he eats all that sushi and it's always wrapped in plastic.

2:21:18I know. And so we ran that test and then it was through the roof

2:21:22and it scared him. And Philip stopped drinking out of plastic bottles, took a very

2:21:27like measured approach to trying to be aware of how much plastic he could inadvertently

2:21:33be consuming. And then we ran him through ways to well protocols.

2:21:36Not only can we quantify it through his testing, which I think he posted on

2:21:41his Instagram, we quantified how much we reduced the level of microplastics.

2:21:46Philip's testosterone, without being on any testosterone, is at 1 ,200.

2:21:52Whoa. All of that inflammation and shit that was in his system was causing chronic

2:21:58inflammation, chronic fatigue, running down his immune system and causing all of these cascade effects

2:22:04that led to him essentially having a low testosterone level.

2:22:07How many people out there are having a similar problem?

2:22:10That's what it's like. Like so many people come in and go, what do you

2:22:14have that can help me?

2:22:15And this is what's challenging too.

2:22:16This is another thing I want to point out about the challenge of like not

2:22:20making claims or understanding the nuance.

2:22:23We saw this with the psychedelic attempt to get psychedelics through the FDA.

2:22:27One of the things that they wanted to do in the psychedelic trials was provide

2:22:31psychiatric integration. So you come out the other end of a mushroom journey and you

2:22:38talk to a therapist and you walk through what you experienced to process your thoughts

2:22:43and emotions. The system's not built to do that because now you're taking two different

2:22:48things and attempting to build a bill master code and get an indication.

2:22:54Well, if I'm united, I'm going to go, well, how do I know it wasn't

2:22:57just the therapy? Or maybe it was just the mushrooms.

2:23:00Why am I paying the therapist?

2:23:02Right. Right. And so that's one of the challenges when people go, what do you

2:23:05have for microplastics? What's tough is a lot of people come in and they go,

2:23:09hey man, I'm going to do the Hockett and I'm going to do the plasmapheresis

2:23:13and I want to do MSCs and I want you to bring down my inflammation.

2:23:18And so, so many people are doing multiple modalities.

2:23:23What I'm saying is it's working, but which one is the needle mover or is

2:23:28it? nutrition of all of them.

2:23:30You know, that's where this gets tough.

2:23:32And that's where I want to track and do a better job of like tracking

2:23:35and quantifying individuals who just do one test or one treatment or one aspect of

2:23:40what we're doing at Ways to Well.

2:23:42Which one's moving the needle the most?

2:23:43Because so many people want to try everything, right?

2:23:46They're already here. They already flew in.

2:23:48So they're like, yeah, let me do this today, this tomorrow, this.

2:23:50And then they all report back and go, I'm feeling phenomenal.

2:23:53I feel the best I've felt.

2:23:54But they did five things.

2:23:56So I don't know which one was the one.

2:23:59Does it matter? Yeah. As long as it's providing a benefit.

2:24:02So it's good to know.

2:24:03But yeah, listen, man, thank you so much for everything.

2:24:06I'm so happy you're out there.

2:24:08And this is so exciting.

2:24:09All this stuff is so exciting.

2:24:11And I'm glad we have another opportunity to talk to people about this shit because

2:24:15it's really impactful. You're the man.

2:24:17And if you wouldn't have had me on here to talk about this, I wouldn't

2:24:20have got to meet Secretary Kennedy and we wouldn't be in a position.

2:24:23And I will tell you, not being hyperbolic, if you weren't here and fighting for

2:24:30peptides and accessibility, and you hadn't given me a platform, I don't know if anybody

2:24:36would be helping this administration navigate all this.

2:24:40I really don't. There's so many people on the opposite side of the aisle that

2:24:45it's a tough thing to navigate.

2:24:46And it takes somebody who knows and has been in the industry enough to explain

2:24:50it, hopefully in a way that resonates, where we can get things done.

2:24:54But we'll see. Well, it's exciting.

2:24:57Yeah. Thank you, man. Exciting stuff.

2:24:58Thanks, brother. Appreciate you. Appreciate you.

2:25:00All right. Bye, everybody. Bye.

2:25:06Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye.

2:25:14Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye.

2:25:14Thank you.

#2469 - Brigham Buhler