The Manosphere Report

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0:15Yes. Our old friend would be so happy, not just that picture, but so much

0:22that you've done. Do you believe that people who have gone on know what we're

0:30doing or see us? I don't know.

0:33You'd like to think that you're that important.

0:36Oh, yeah. I have a feeling they have more important stuff to do on the

0:40other side. Yeah, I guess if you're in heaven, you're not thinking about the mothership.

0:44Right. Well, the mothership definitely is from her.

0:49Yes, yes. Yeah. I mean, that's an incredible tribute to her.

0:55Well, the bar's named after her.

0:57Yeah, I've heard all the comics.

0:59I've heard Shane and Ian and all the guys talk about it after they came

1:02back. And that's just an honor, man.

1:08Plus, you know, I used to say to people, if you haven't taken something from

1:13watching Richard Pryor, you're probably doing it wrong.

1:15Right. And Mitzi made the greatest comedy mecca ever.

1:22And you got to copy what she did.

1:26A hundred percent. Yeah. Wow.

1:29And this is cool. She taught me everything about how to run a club, how

1:33to do it right. Basically, kind of let the comedians run it, let the inmates

1:37run the asylum. Yeah. You know?

1:39Yeah, we're perfect inmates for that.

1:41And right now, the comedy store is greater than ever.

1:45That's awesome. Yeah, it's wonderful there because, you know, I even got Jay Leno to

1:51come back, you know, because he remembered the old days and hadn't gone back.

1:54And I'm like, dude, it's different.

1:57They pay you for coming.

2:00They split the door in a different way now.

2:03And there are phones in bags.

2:06I had to explain that concept.

2:07Yeah. We had to encourage them to do all that.

2:10Yeah. That was your era.

2:11Yeah. Well, once we left, we started doing that at the mothership for all the

2:16shows. Then other comedy clubs started falling.

2:19So it's the way to do it.

2:21People are too fucking distracted.

2:23Yeah. And I think it frees us up in a way.

2:28I'll say things and try things and not worry about seeing them on YouTube when

2:34they're not ready or when I've made a mistake and gone too far and said

2:37something, you know? Oh, a hundred percent.

2:39It's also you have to be free to fuck around and experiment.

2:42And if someone takes that fucking around and experiment, you don't know what's coming out

2:46of your mouth. Like right now, I don't know what's coming out of my mouth

2:49right before I say it, right?

2:50Yeah, right. And people have to understand that.

2:52This is not like when you're on stage and you're working out, like a lot

2:56of it is free balling.

2:57You've got material that's like pre sort of established and you're, you know, you've got

3:03the bones of it, but you're also fucking around in the moment and sometimes you

3:09fuck around in the moment and it works and sometimes you fuck around in the

3:12moment and it does nothing.

3:13It goes, or it's terrible.

3:14You said something awful. You're like, whoops, sorry.

3:17Yeah, we make mistakes. You're just fucking creating something.

3:22And then standup is the only art form that you have to kind of create

3:26in front of a crowd.

3:27You can't really, you can get ideas and the concepts and the flesh of it

3:32alone, but you have, it comes alive in front of the crowd.

3:36You have to be able to fuck around.

3:38Yeah, I, me and Chappelle, and you've, you've done this kind of thing.

3:44Me and Chappelle met Chris Rock in Cleveland because Chappelle lives in Ohio, obviously.

3:50He's done something very similar to what you've done, but we'll get into that later.

3:53Yeah, he's done something really cool.

3:54Incredible. Basically took over a whole town.

3:56Yeah, yeah. And it's funny, and especially at a really funny joke about it, about

4:02how when white people move into a neighborhood, it's called gentrification.

4:06And he goes, they don't have a word for what I'm doing to these motherfuckers.

4:10Yeah, it's crazy to be Dave Chappelle, the most important man in town.

4:14Yeah. But Chris Rock was doing Cleveland and we met him there.

4:20And that was the first time I saw the bags.

4:24People, and I was apprehensive.

4:28As a matter of fact, I saw a celebrity in L .A.

4:31who didn't want to put his phone in a bag.

4:33And so they had that motherfucker stay outside.

4:36You know. Yeah, there's too many snitches in this world.

4:39Too many people just want to film everything for the gram.

4:42Yeah. Like, stop. Yeah, sometimes we're saying the wrong thing.

4:46Sometimes we're drunk. Yeah. For sure, a lot.

4:49Yeah. Yeah, a lot. Dave loves to get lit and go on stage.

4:53But it's also like, that's one of the ways he creates.

4:56Like, I've seen him do entire shows where he's just completely fucking around and he

5:00films everything. So then afterwards, he goes over and he's like, oh, there's a seed

5:04right there. I only plant that seed.

5:05Yeah. Yeah, there's an idea there.

5:07And then, you know, that's how you come up with stuff.

5:09Yeah, I never drink or smoke before going on stage.

5:15But I love to create at home.

5:17And the next day, because sometimes you can write something down and it'll be like,

5:21blaze a button envelope. And the next day, you're like, I don't know what the

5:26fuck I thought was funny about that last night when I was smoking.

5:29But I like to smoke and create at home and then take it to the

5:32stage. But when I'm on stage, I've had bad experiences trying to do it high

5:37and saying, this will make me creative.

5:38I'll be like Hendrix of comedy.

5:41That's all wrong. Your memory will go.

5:43Yeah, your memory will go.

5:44One time I was at the Laugh Factory and I came off and George Lopez

5:49said to me, why you come off?

5:51And I said, I told you I'd do 20.

5:54And he says, you did five.

5:58I was in Tonight Show mode or some shit.

6:01Hey, I got to clear something out.

6:03Speaking of this has nothing to do with you, but I did a podcast last

6:07week with Theo Vaughn. I had nothing to do with you, but I did a

6:08podcast last week with you.

6:08I was like, hey, I said, what do you like?

6:08We don't get me away from me with you?

6:08I said, you know, I was like, if you have any more questions, why do

6:08you post -back on? And, uh, yeah?

6:10In it, there's like a video on the internet that's accusing me of lying about

6:14something. And what I said was that I was in the mountains of Utah when

6:19the Charlie Kirk thing was going down.

6:22What had actually happened was I was here doing a podcast with Charlie Sheen when

6:28the Charlie Kirk thing went down.

6:31We stopped and took a piss break, right?

6:33And that's when we found out about it, right?

6:37And then when I was in the mountains of Utah, that's when the Jimmy Kimmel

6:41thing was happening. When Jimmy Kimmel was getting in trouble and I was getting all

6:44these messages, but I didn't have any service out there.

6:46So I had to hook up the Starlink in order to find out what was

6:49happening. When I did the podcast the other day, it seemed like I was saying

6:54that I was in the mountains when Charlie Kirk got shot.

6:57I probably was saying that.

6:59I was exhausted when I did that show last week.

7:03So I did a show on Tuesday night at the club, and I have this

7:08thing that I do, unfortunately, where I come home and it's the only time that

7:12I get alone time is when everyone's asleep.

7:15And I stayed up way too late.

7:17I stayed up super late.

7:18Then I had to take my kid to school in the morning, and I was

7:20like, I'll just power through.

7:22The problem when I do that, when I get no sleep, is my memory is

7:25dog shit. Like, I have a really good memory and a terrible memory.

7:30It's really good a lot of the times, and then sometimes, especially when I'm tired,

7:34it's fucking terrible. It's like, from doing thousands of podcasts, my memory is like a

7:40room that's filled with boxes and files.

7:45And I don't know where the fuck everything is.

7:47See, as you were talking, the first thing, everything goes to sports for me.

7:51Some of our greatest home run hitters, they strike out a lot because they're swinging

7:57all the motherfucking time trying to get it to McCovey Cove or someplace.

8:01Of course. And I think that's how we are.

8:03Well, not we. You, especially right now.

8:05You're doing this constantly. You're talking to lots of people saying lots of things.

8:10And every now and then, there's going to be a swing and a miss.

8:13Let me explain that. But the real problem was sleepy.

8:16The real problem was not getting any sleep.

8:18And I'm not going to do that anymore because I keep doing it.

8:21The thing is, I get home at night.

8:22Have you had that problem before, like sleep deprivation and you get yourself into something?

8:25I've had that problem before.

8:27Usually, I can fix it with creatine.

8:29So, creatine is a great supplement when you're tired.

8:33Really, there's been studies that show that creatine supplementation, especially like 10 to 20 grams,

8:40it actually alleviates all of the problems that happen with sleep deprivation in terms of

8:48cognitive function. But I just was doing some blood work.

8:52So, when I knew that I was going to do my blood work, I didn't

8:56take any creatine for a month because I'd read something about creatine possibly being bad

9:01for your kidneys. So, I wanted to get a baseline, do it, and then do

9:05it again when I supplement.

9:07Oh, yeah. So, I had this strategy.

9:09But the point is, my brain was foggy.

9:13And so, for the people that heard that and like, what is wrong with you?

9:18That's what I thought when I saw it.

9:19Like, somebody put a video on the line, like, why is he lying about this?

9:22I'm like, oh, I forgot.

9:24It wasn't a lie. It's just, my brain sucks when I don't get sleep and

9:28I'm not going to do that anymore.

9:30Because it's like, when I get home at night, it's the only time I'm alone.

9:35It's like my only alone time.

9:37And even though I knew I had to get up in the morning and take

9:40my kid to school, I was like, I don't fucking care.

9:41I'm staying up. The problem with that is like, when I have to do this

9:46the next day, I just don't function as good.

9:49I've done it. I've done it before.

9:51But I feel it the next day.

9:52Like, I can't recall things.

9:55My words don't come out as smooth.

9:56I don't have as much.

9:58My vocabulary is limited. It's like, there's too many problems with it.

10:02So, I don't want to do that anymore.

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12:11First of all, do guys with these arms do creatine?

12:15I mean, would it help me?

12:15Oh, it's great for everybody.

12:17Yeah, creatine is not just a supplement for muscles.

12:20Creatine is actually a really good cognitive function supplement.

12:24It's actually a cognitive enhancing supplement.

12:27Yeah, there's a lot of research on that.

12:29And the other thing that hit me is I was listening to you talk recently,

12:33and you talked about smoking herb and how it enhanced the weightlifting process.

12:40Yeah. What's that about? You feel it in your tissues, man.

12:44It's like you feel. It's really good for coordination exercise.

12:48Like there's a lot of jujitsu guys who smoke weed.

12:51They smoke weed right before class.

12:53They get ripped. So the Gracie's were high when I first started seeing them?

12:57Not those guys. Those guys don't do it, but a lot of guys do.

13:00I think one of the – I don't want to throw them under the bus,

13:03but one of the brothers was really into smoking weed and doing jujitsu, and arguably

13:08the best one, definitely the best one.

13:10But a lot of jujitsu guys do it.

13:14And a lot of guys like to do it before kickboxing.

13:17You just feel your muscles more.

13:20You feel like your coordination more.

13:22You're more sensitive. It's weird.

13:24It's like instead of you being like abstract with your movements and, you know, just

13:29kind of like doing it, it's like you feel all the tissues, all the connection.

13:33When you lift weights, you're like – Yeah.

13:35Like you feel all the fibers of all your shit moving.

13:39It's like it just makes you more sensitive.

13:41It's such a misunderstood substance.

13:45Not for everybody. I really believe some people should not get high.

13:49I think for some people it throws them off and sends them down a dark

13:53road, and it's just not for them.

13:54Causes them to procrastinate about their life and personal responsibilities.

13:58There's a lot of that.

13:59There's a lot of people that just wake and bake and just live in the

14:02cloud all day and never get anything done.

14:04And then there's a lot of people that also get like super paranoid, and they

14:07get anxiety, and they freak out.

14:09And then there's people that – there's a lot of connections to marijuana and psychosis

14:16or schizophrenic states that some – But the problem with that is were they already

14:23– like did they already have a propensity towards schizophrenia and marijuana pushed them over

14:27the edge? Were they going to get it anyway?

14:29Like it's hard to say.

14:30A lot of those guys on a diet, Coke, would have problems.

14:33Yeah, right? Right. There's a lot of guys just fucking red lights freak them out.

14:37There's people that just – life is too hard for them, and they don't need

14:41something else that fucks with it.

14:42You know, if you already have mental health struggles, you probably shouldn't do mushrooms.

14:46Yeah. If you're already fucked up, if there's already some things that you're like struggling

14:51to hang on to everyday life, yeah, you probably shouldn't do acid.

14:54You know what I mean?

14:55Yeah. You should probably just try to like keep your shit together.

14:59But that's not everybody. It's like alcohol.

15:02Like alcohol is not for everybody.

15:04But some people can have a glass of wine at dinner and just start laughing.

15:08It's a nice social lubricant.

15:10Some people, they have one drink and they're doing Coke and they're getting hookers and

15:14they're fucking driving on the freeway.

15:16They're shooting at cops. They go crazy.

15:19Like some people just can't handle alcohol.

15:21It doesn't mean it should be illegal.

15:23That's crazy. And it's the same thing I feel with pot.

15:26Pot is super beneficial to a lot of people.

15:29And it has been for millions of years.

15:33For me, that's my, like in the old days you'd watch a television show and

15:38a guy would have a martini when he comes home.

15:39Yeah. I even talk about that in the book.

15:42When I come home, my girl has me a joint laid out on the counter,

15:46you know, and nice little raw papers.

15:50And that's my, that's daddy's cocktail.

15:54Yeah. It's a nice one, too, because it doesn't fuck with your body.

15:57The problem with alcohol is, you know, it feels good while you're doing it.

16:01But then the next day you're like, oh.

16:04Yeah. Your fucking head and your body's tired.

16:07I hear swelling, you know, and different kinds of things.

16:11And also, I'm from a home where my favorite person, my cousin, because I didn't

16:18have brothers and sisters, biological brothers and sisters.

16:21So when my cousin came to live with me, a male, he's a teenager, and

16:26he had a drinking problem.

16:27Like, I would go inside my toy box and find Scotch.

16:33Oh, he would hide it?

16:34Yeah, he would hide it.

16:35He's parked in the garage when there were already two cars in the garage, you

16:41know. And I loved him, and he was hilarious, and he, in part, helped to

16:46make me who I am.

16:47But a bad experience like that in your youth can make you a little bit

16:52leery about liquor. Oh, yeah.

16:54I had a friend of mine when I was in high school, and his cousin

16:57sold Coke, and I watched this guy fall apart.

17:00I watched him do cocaine constantly and fall apart.

17:03His life just went down the toilet, and I never touched cocaine because of that.

17:07I never did. I've still never done Coke.

17:09And I think that's why, because I watched his— So you've never tried a line?

17:14Never. Never. That's heavy, man.

17:15Not once, yeah. Because I had to try it to see what it smelled like,

17:19you know. I mean— I'm sure I'd like it.

17:22My friend Jimmy said, don't do this.

17:23You'd love it. But he's probably right.

17:26But you also have a certain kind of discipline where I think you could do

17:28a line and say, okay, I get it.

17:31But I love— That you have the discipline to never try it.

17:34I don't have that kind of strength.

17:37I've got to see what it's like once.

17:39The thing is, like, I don't know anybody who's had—like, cocaine was really good for

17:43me. Like, doing cocaine was really good.

17:45But when I started doing cocaine, my life just really changed.

17:47I really got clarity. I started focusing.

17:49I was nicer to people.

17:50I don't ever hear that story.

17:52Never. Not once. I did a little Coke, and then I was president of Yale,

17:56and I ran for— I do hear people say that about speed, which is weird.

18:00You hear people say that about amphetamines, like, especially Adderall.

18:03Like, how, like, oh, my God, it makes me so productive.

18:06I got so much done.

18:08But it's generally—it's like journalists and people that have to write a lot.

18:13Students—I'm very curious about Adderall because I'm hearing so much, and I'm thinking, like, when

18:21I was doing the book, right?

18:22I'm like, would Adderall be good to focus me, to do for me what it

18:27does for students that I hear talk about it?

18:30Probably. Probably, but I don't— It's a pill, right?

18:33It scares me, though, because I know a lot of people with problems with it.

18:37It's a— It's a real, it's a real catchy one, it gets you, and then

18:43you start leaning on it.

18:45So that's one of the downs is it's extremely addicting.

18:48Very addictive. But what's the other downside?

18:50Well, I would imagine when you get off of it, you're exhausted.

18:54Because I would imagine whenever there's, there's always some sort of a biological, you know,

19:00there's, whenever, there's no free lunch, right?

19:04Anything that speeds you up is going to bring you down.

19:06Like, if you're ramping your body up where you're focusing for fucking 16 hours, just

19:11sitting in front of the typewriter.

19:13Yeah. And that's what, like, why journalists like it.

19:16I would imagine the back end of it.

19:19You've done it, Jamie. Only twice, because it kept me up for two days.

19:23See, that's what I'm talking about.

19:24That's the main thing. That's it.

19:25It's an amphetamine. So, yeah, I went to try to go to bed and was

19:28like, well, this isn't happening.

19:30So let's get up and see how, we're up all day.

19:32All right. Two days? Yeah, I just, I had to call off work.

19:35It wasn't good. And then you feel real dopey after it wears off, right?

19:38Yeah, I didn't, I didn't feel like I succeeded on anything that day.

19:42Man, that is a fucking problem for me, is like the lack of sleep thing.

19:46After this whole Charlie Kirk thing with this, what I was just talking about, I'm

19:50really going to concentrate a lot more on sleep.

19:52You can't fuck with that, because it's like, especially me, it's like I need my

19:57brain to be functioning at its highest potential most of the time.

20:02Like, that's what you're doing, especially when I'm in here.

20:05I was talking to Theo Vaughn, I didn't think it would be that big of

20:08a deal. Theo's a comic, we're just going to be silly.

20:10The most recent one? Yeah, the one I was just talking about.

20:12It would probably be good to be loopy, you know?

20:14Like, because, you know, the writers on news radio, they would stay up all night

20:19on purpose just to get loopy, because that was how, because they didn't really do

20:23any drugs, they just would use sleep deprivation to be silly.

20:28Yeah. It was hilarious. Like, these guys would start writing at like two o 'clock

20:33in the morning. Like, they would stay up, they would play video games, and they

20:36would start writing a script at like two o 'clock in the morning.

20:38And then they would stumble in to, like, when we have a table read, they

20:42would stumble into the table read, like, just finishing the script, they would lay it

20:46out to us, they just got done printing it, and these guys would be fucking,

20:50just completely out of it.

20:52Hair all fucked up, barefoot.

20:54It was really funny, the way they operated, but it was, there was a method

20:57to their madness, and that method was, the more tired you get, the more exhausted

21:03you get, you get into sleep deprivation, you get loopy, and you get silly.

21:06And you start thinking silly things.

21:09Yeah. I mean, those guys, that's how they would use it.

21:11They would use that weird state of mind, that loopiness to write.

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22:37I need my sleep, man.

22:39If I have sleep, I can do anything.

22:42I feel like they could have got there with weed without all the loopiness.

22:46You want to get there?

22:47You can get there with weed and you don't have to stay up all night.

22:51You get it right away.

22:53Yeah, but weed ain't for everybody.

22:55It's not for everybody. It ain't for everybody.

22:58But, yeah, I love having my sleep.

23:00As a matter of fact, that's the drug that's most important to me.

23:06Having an Ambien nearby. Do you like that?

23:10Yeah, a quarter, just a little bite of Ambien.

23:13A little bite. Yeah, will hook you up.

23:16I knew a dude who would take that shit every day.

23:18He had to take it all the time.

23:20And then he was taking two.

23:22And he told me, like, dude, my house could be on fire.

23:25And I would have no idea.

23:27And I'm like, that can't be good.

23:29But he needed it. It was the only way he could go to sleep.

23:32But he was also taking Adderall.

23:33So he was taking Adderall in the day.

23:35And then he was taking Ambien at night.

23:37Can't believe he's still alive.

23:38Yeah, that's too much. Yeah, the Adderall fucked his life up, too.

23:44Woo. Yeah. It's not, you know, I don't think you should rely on anything for

23:50sleep. For me, I just, I've never had a sleep problem, fortunately.

23:54I could go to sleep on a bag of rocks.

23:56I could just crash. It drives my wife nuts.

23:59Yeah. Because, like, if we're on a plane, the moment the plane takes off, I'm

24:03out cold. I could just go to sleep.

24:05The bad thing about me is I can sleep best in places I shouldn't sleep.

24:09Like church. Yeah. Or sit and talk to my woman's grandma.

24:14Church will make you sleepy.

24:15Oh, yeah. I don't know why.

24:16Why does church make you so sleepy?

24:18Or reading. Yeah. Reading will put you out.

24:21There are some audible books that are worse than Ambien.

24:24Right. You know. Yeah. Something about physically reading puts me out.

24:28Yeah. Just sitting there, like, looking at the pages, I just start nodding off.

24:32Yeah. I, um, The Alchemist.

24:36I have been on page 12 for, like, a year and a half, you know?

24:41Sit down on a plane and just read The Alchemist at the top of the

24:46page and I'm out. Yeah.

24:48It's fiction for me that puts me out.

24:50Non -fiction doesn't really put me out.

24:52Non -fiction. Fiction is more, like, I guess it's more stimulating because it's real, you

24:57know, because I'm reading about real things.

24:59Something about reading fiction is what puts me to sleep.

25:02For me, it's just reading.

25:03I can take out my license, you know, and look and say, oh, halfway through

25:11my name, out. This is cool, man.

25:15Not having sleep is got, like, a person that's got, like, legitimate insomnia, that's got

25:19to be the nuttiest fucking problem.

25:22Like, that's that movie, The Mechanic?

25:24No, The Machinist. Did you ever see that movie, The Machinist?

25:27No. Is that an action movie?

25:29Well, that's the movie with Christian Bale.

25:34Christian Bale, where he lost an insane amount of weight.

25:38Like, Christian Bale's a big guy.

25:39I think he got to, like, 130 -something pounds.

25:42Yeah. And the idea was that this guy was going completely insane because he couldn't

25:47sleep, and so he wasn't eating.

25:49And so he was just, like, up all the time, like, out of it.

25:53And he, like, if you see what he looked like when he made that movie,

25:56it's, like, that's what he looked like in the movie.

25:59Oh, shit. Yeah. That looks like he's about to make a whole different movie.

26:04Yeah. Like, he was about to die.

26:06And then he went from that, and right afterwards, he did Batman.

26:09So he got super jacked.

26:11He went from that. And by the way, the movie sucks.

26:14So this guy, like, wrecked his health for a movie that wasn't even good.

26:20And, I mean, I wonder how good it could even be when your main guy

26:26is dying. Look at that image on the far right, the one that you just,

26:31look at that. Look at the difference between, that was, like, six months later.

26:35That can't be healthy. No.

26:38Fucking terrible for you. It has to be terrible.

26:41Terrible. Do you like to act?

26:43No. I don't hate it.

26:46I don't like the process.

26:48I don't like waiting around all day.

26:50I don't like being on set.

26:52I don't like dealing with, some actors are great.

26:55Some actors are just like all kinds of people.

26:57Yeah. Cops. There's a lot of cops that are awesome.

26:59Because I know you had a point in your life when you could probably do

27:01anything you want. And I never see you pursuing any acting roles.

27:07No. I avoid them. Yeah, I've been offered some fun stuff.

27:12And I was like, hmm, I'm not going to Bulgaria for three months.

27:16Fuck that. I'm just, it's not my thing.

27:18And if it was my thing, I'd be like, feel very fortunate.

27:22And I'd dive on it.

27:23I'd be like, oh my God, it's amazing.

27:24So when you look at something you've done and you're watching a role in dailies

27:28or at the premiere, you don't love what you see so much that you do

27:33more of it? It doesn't bother me.

27:35It's just not what I enjoy doing.

27:38And again, it's the process that's the problem.

27:41It's the 16 -hour days.

27:43It's like, and it's being around actors.

27:46Because you're around people that need to think and need to talk in a very

27:53specific way. Because they're always worried they're going to be cast out of the kingdom.

27:58You know what I mean?

27:59So it's like this very disingenuous way of communicating that a lot of actors have.

28:04And you always feel when you do something that this person's going to be your

28:08friend for life. I'll see you next month.

28:10And you never see that fucker ever again.

28:12It's such a disingenuous environment.

28:15Do you enjoy it? Do you enjoy acting?

28:17I kind of like it.

28:19But at 70, I prefer to just be at home.

28:23You're 70. Yeah. You look so good.

28:26Oh, thanks. That's kind of crazy that you're 70.

28:29And no creatine. Imagine how good you'd look if you're creatine.

28:33I'm going to get it.

28:3470, man. If you told me that you were 45, if I didn't know you

28:38and you told me you were 45, I'd believe you.

28:40That's nuts. That's a blessing.

28:42Isn't that crazy? Yeah. Yeah.

28:45And I'm happy. So that's unusual.

28:48Yeah, right? A lot of people when they're 70, they're bitter and tired.

28:52Yeah. Man, I talk a little bit in the book about Richard Pryor coming to

28:58my first condo. I bought a condo so I didn't have a car yet.

29:04And eventually I got one.

29:05But when I first came to L .A., I wanted to be between the comedy

29:08store and the improv so I could get to both.

29:10Oh, right. So I bought me a condo and I told Richard Pryor that I

29:14got a condo. I don't know.

29:16It's one of those, I think I heard you and Shane talking about it, how

29:19you see your heroes now and then and sometimes you just say the wrong shit.

29:24And I was expecting this to be the wrong shit, but it's all I could

29:27think of. And I said, Richard, I just bought a condo.

29:30And he said, oh, wow, I'd like to see it.

29:35And I was like, oh, OK.

29:40And him and Rashawn, his body man, came to see my condo.

29:45And that was the coolest thing in the world.

29:47But the one thing I remember, I remember I had no furniture and Rashawn had

29:52told me, his guy had told me to get some Kevassie.

29:54So I had some Kevassie, you know, and we sat on the floor and drank

30:00Kevassie and listened to a boombox with jazz on it and talked.

30:05And he looked around at one point and he said, this reminds me of when

30:10I was happy. Whoa. And I don't even have to tell you what went through

30:14my head and what I thought that meant.

30:17And I didn't listen to him then.

30:19And that's the thing is people disperse knowledge to us from their experiences.

30:23And sometimes we're too young and dumb to listen.

30:26What did that mean to you at the time when he said, this reminds me

30:29of when I was happy?

30:30You know, I was I was so excited that Richard Pryor came to see my

30:33condo. I didn't process it.

30:35But but years later, I start realizing that he bought things and philosophies that made

30:46his life more complex. And he was happy.

30:50This is what I think it means.

30:52He was happy with the simple shit, you know.

30:54And sometimes I mean, it's nice to have.

30:57Isn't it cool to have money, but still eat burgers if you want to.

31:00I mean, because I remember walking through supermarkets and pretending I was shopping and eating

31:06out of the child. part, that little, that little top part, and then leaving the

31:12supermarket, you know. So it's nice to be able to buy anything we want, but

31:17at the same time, I get that thing of the simplicity and, you know, no

31:23guard gate. Nobody's knocking down your door trying to get to you.

31:28Yeah, just, just a canto with no furniture.

31:31And for a guy like that, for the greatest that I've ever known in our

31:36world, to say I was happy when I had a little place with no furniture,

31:41I didn't think about it enough then, but later I realized what he meant when

31:46I was in a house that was too big with guest houses that would, you

31:52know, you walk into a guest house and cobwebs get on your face, you know,

31:57because you ain't been in there in a while and you realize, okay, this is

32:00what Richard was talking about.

32:01I'm doing a lot of shit for other people that I don't need.

32:05Right. And too much complexity.

32:07Yeah. Too much complications. Somebody said, my business manager said something about my staff and

32:12it dawned on me, what the fuck do I have a staff for?

32:17You know, and I've simplified things a little bit in my life and I'm really

32:23happy. It's just, you know, me and my woman and a scaled down life.

32:31That's better. Yeah. There's a lot of people that just want a lot of people

32:35around them because it makes them feel important.

32:37They have a big staff.

32:38They have a lot of people working for them.

32:40A lot of things going on.

32:41A lot of different projects.

32:43Keep moving. Keep moving. Yeah.

32:45But no peace. Yeah. Yeah.

32:47Not good. I always tell comedians, like, they're like, oh, I got to get an

32:50assistant. I go, no, you don't.

32:51Just do less shit. Don't get an assistant.

32:53You get an assistant, that person's going to want to kill you.

32:56That person's going to feel entitled.

32:58You're making all this money.

32:59They're not. You're famous. They're not.

33:02They see you for who you really are.

33:04They're following you. And like, you ain't a fucking regular guy.

33:06Why has he got all this?

33:08Like, David Spade's assistant duct taped him and tased him.

33:11Remember that? Yeah. Try to kill him.

33:14That's heavy, man. And I've heard that the people who work for us always hate

33:21us. I've always avoided. Somebody told me.

33:24It's not always the case.

33:24They said, you know your housekeeper hates you.

33:26And I'm like, no, she's been with me 22 years.

33:29He's like, that bitch hates you.

33:33And I don't want to believe that.

33:35It's not always the case.

33:36But it is often the case that people that are around people that have so

33:40much, they feel like, why don't I have this?

33:44Like, I'm working for this person.

33:46Why am I not doing that?

33:47Why am I not rich?

33:48This person could just make me rich.

33:49It's weird. You know what I mean?

33:51Yeah. Like, that's not what the job is.

33:53The job is you're a gardener.

33:56Garden doesn't make $5 million a year.

33:59Like, this is, you're kind of being crazy.

34:01And then you get people that take advantage of you, where you get a bill,

34:05and you're like, why does it cost this much?

34:06Like, this is kind of, like, I have a friend who's very wealthy.

34:09He's a businessman. And he goes over every fucking little thing that people charge him.

34:15And he's always looking for, they're fucking trying to overcharge me.

34:17Signs his own checks. Yeah.

34:19But he gets crazy when he thinks people are overcharging him.

34:22But I'm like, dude, you're almost 80, and you're worth a billion dollars.

34:27Like, why are you looking at, like, how much the car wash guy charges you?

34:30This is crazy. Maybe that's why he has a billion.

34:34Perhaps. I mean, he's a businessman.

34:36That's his thing. But what drives him nuts is this idea that people are overcharging

34:42him because he's wealthy. Oh, I hate that.

34:44They're taking advantage of him.

34:45Joe, the craziest I ever went was I had a barber when I had hair.

34:52You know, and, you know, a black barber is a skilled scientist.

34:56You know, because back then I had it fried, dyed, and laid to the side

35:01with three Adidas stripes over on the left.

35:04And, you know, my shit was intricate that year.

35:08And my business manager happened to be a business manager for two other entertainers.

35:15And he's also my friend.

35:17And one day he says, you know that guy charges the three of you different

35:21prices. And I'm like, get the fuck.

35:26So I found out that Johnny Gill was paying $100.

35:30I was paying $350. Oh.

35:35And that drives me crazy because basically, like you say, he was charging based on

35:40who I am. Right. Yeah.

35:42Like you can afford it.

35:44Yeah. Yeah. And I had a friend who had more money than me, and he

35:48was charging him a crazy amount.

35:50It was like the rental of a rose, you know, crazy money.

35:56Yeah. Well, that's what comes with the territory.

35:59People just think you're not going to notice.

36:01They don't care, you know.

36:03Yeah. I guess. Yeah. Do you think you're happier now than you were when the

36:11Arsenio Hall show was at its peak?

36:15Yeah, I think I'm happier now because with that peak comes a lot of pressure

36:23and a lot of work.

36:25And I'd be a liar to say I don't enjoy having the money without the

36:30other shit. Mm -hmm. You know, I did a good job of investing and making

36:35sure that when the lights went out, I was good.

36:39But, so, I love my life right now, man.

36:43More relaxed, less pressure. Oh, and being an OG and pretty much your responsibility is

36:49just giving advice to a comic in the hallway.

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38:05Yeah. A lot of the young guys don't understand what you did, because what your

38:11show was, like back in, I guess, when did it first come on the air?

38:17What year? Probably, coming to America was like 86, 87.

38:20I left New York and went and started the show.

38:23So 87, 88, sometime around in there.

38:25I'm bad with years. Yeah.

38:27During that time, and in the 90s, it changed the whole landscape of late -night

38:33television. Like, completely changed it.

38:35Because late -night television was stiff.

38:38You know, it was like, yeah, fucking the desk.

38:41The desk made no sense to me.

38:43I talk about the desk and how I got rid of it.

38:46But it made no sense.

38:47But you would, I was like, oh, finally, he got rid of the desk.

38:50The fucking desk. Are we being lectured?

38:52Am I in the principal's office?

38:54Like, what is, what is the fucking desk for?

38:56But when they first started doing that in the 1950s, if you went to work,

38:59you had a desk. Yeah.

39:01You had to wear a tie.

39:02You had a desk. And they all smoked cigarettes while they were on the job.

39:06You know, you watch like the Johnny Carson show.

39:08During commercials. Johnny would go under his desk.

39:10Mm -hmm. Get a cigarette.

39:11Yeah. Well, they would often smoke on air.

39:14They would do it all the time back then.

39:16That's crazy. They all smoked cigarettes.

39:17How about planes? How about the fact that we could get on a plane to

39:20go to a gig, and there was a row behind us where smoking began.

39:24Right. Which made no sense.

39:25And I'm in the no -smoking row, and the bitch behind me got a cigar.

39:29Yeah. And it was just flooding the entire cabin.

39:33Yes. You know, Dice used to have a joke about it.

39:35You're in a fucking tube.

39:37Where's the air going? Yeah.

39:40Dice. It was a weird time.

39:43But the whole idea was what I was getting to was like, late night television

39:48was very stiff. It was, you know, it was like, da -da -da -da -da

39:53-da -da -da -da -da -da -da.

39:54And then your show came around.

39:56Paul Anka wrote that. Did he?

39:58Yeah. Oh, wow. Your show came around, and then all of a sudden, it was

40:03fun and loose. And I remember when Clinton came on your show and played the

40:07saxophone. Yeah. And I mean, everybody was like, what is happening?

40:12The fucking president of the—was he the president back then, or was he running?

40:15Oh, he was a governor.

40:17Oh, that's right. And he was trying to get the young vote, so he did

40:20me. And then the next day, they decided to do MTV, because I think what

40:26my show did that night was changed how you run for the highest office in

40:31the land. And— Look at that.

40:34Look at that. The joke I had just done was, finally, a Democrat blowing something

40:40other than the election. And when you look, you remember jokes in the moment.

40:46And, dude, so what's interesting is, after this, presidential candidates realized they had to come

40:55to Rogan and Sunday morning to meet the press.

41:00You know? And I like that.

41:02You know? They have to go everywhere now.

41:05Well, they go where the people are paying attention, right?

41:09But it was different, because if they did the Tonight Show with Johnny Carson, it

41:14would be, you know, a very competent interview, but it would be stiff.

41:19It was—it was, like, very—I mean, not even stiff's not the right word.

41:23It was traditional. It was, like—this was different.

41:27Like, him playing the saxophone, running for president, playing the saxophone, I was like, what

41:30is happening here? And I tried to get—I told Jenna Bush this last week—I'm on

41:36this book -slinging tour—and I told her, I said, I invited your grandpa, because back

41:43then there was a mentality that you do equal both sides, you know?

41:49And I don't think it was a rule, but first of all, my dad was

41:54a Republican. My mother was a Democrat.

41:56So I was used to hearing both sides and learning both sides, and I thought

41:59the best thing I could do for young people is show them both sides, and

42:03that would be fair of me as a host.

42:06And we got a call from a man named Marlon Fitzwater, who said, no fucking

42:11way we're coming there, you know?

42:13And— I wonder why. It's almost like what you talk about with the desk.

42:20Society, at a certain point, is stiff, and it takes certain people to loosen it

42:24up and make a change.

42:26And I think it was just they're not used to it.

42:30It's like, why are they barking?

42:33And what is— Whoop, whoop, whoop, whoop.

42:34Yeah, yeah. That's right. Things that make you go, hmm.

42:37Oh, yeah, yeah. Yeah, there was a lot going on.

42:40I had a couple of hooks going.

42:41Oh, you had a great hook.

42:42Things that make you go, whom—everybody used that all day long.

42:45Yeah. Like, if something weird was going on in the office, people are, things that

42:49make you go, hmm. And it was so cool.

42:51Then they wrote a song about it, and I would turn on TV, and I

42:55would see— Was that CNC Music Factory?

42:57Yes. That's right. Yeah. And I would turn on TV, and Nordstrom's would have a

43:01sale that makes you go, hmm.

43:03And I was like, that's very cool.

43:06And it came about sitting with the writers.

43:09And I had done it at the comedy store, and he says, you know, we

43:14could use that and just throw any joke in there, like randos, that we don't

43:20know where to put. Right, right.

43:21And so it really was a cheating technique for a comedy.

43:25Yeah, perfect non sequitur. Yeah.

43:27Just a transition. Every now and then, hey, why don't black women breastfeed chocolate milk?

43:32And you have no place else to put that thought.

43:36Right. So it's a stream of things that make you go, hmm.

43:41Yeah, yeah. Well, it was just, finally, there was a different kind of talk show.

43:47It was like, finally, there was a talk show that was more fun.

43:50Hey, the desk thing, my partner and executive producer, Marla Kell Brown, we were sitting

43:59around one day and she said, after coming to America, I had done the Joan

44:02Rivers thing. I filled in for her for 11 weeks and I think she, her

44:07husband committed suicide and she was going through all that period, right?

44:11Conan's creating the Wilton North Report in the room that I leave and I go

44:15to Paramount and she says, I'm asking you one thing.

44:19She said, I watched you do stand up the other night at the comedy store

44:22and there is a freedom that you have that I would like you to have

44:28on the talk show. And I don't think we can have it with that desk

44:31between you and the guest.

44:32So I want you to just try without the desk.

44:36And I tried it without the desk and never went back.

44:40Yeah, you changed it. I mean, like, and then George Lopez did No Desk when

44:46he did his show. A few people have tried the No Desk thing.

44:50Yeah. But. For us, I think it's great.

44:52And you know what? I was able, like somebody like Rosie Perez, who would be

44:55nervous, I'd hold her hand.

44:58And you can't reach across the desk and hold somebody's hand.

45:02Well, also, the desk was always elevated.

45:04Oh, yeah. You want to be high.

45:05The desk was always above the guest.

45:06We must be higher. Which is weird.

45:08Well, that's a bizarre. I don't know if that's the ego of the entertainer or

45:14whether that's some ass kissing prop set designer move.

45:19Because we always wanted to be higher.

45:23And I remember they put something under my seat.

45:25So I. Make your seat higher?

45:26Yeah. So I'm sitting even with Kareem.

45:29You know, which is bullshit.

45:31You know. Yeah, it's a weird thing.

45:35It's like, why would the host be above movie stars and rock stars?

45:41Why? That doesn't make any sense at all.

45:44Yeah. Unless your host is David Bowie.

45:46Yeah, right? Right. Unless he decides to do a talk show.

45:51Even then, it doesn't make any sense.

45:52It's like, if you want to have a conversation, the way you did it was

45:55the best way to do it.

45:56Just be sitting there. Yeah.

45:58Sitting with each other. You know?

46:00And now. You can lean in.

46:02Oh, yeah. Yeah. You could touch the person.

46:05Yeah. You could poke the person.

46:07Now, we have a different era where everyone can do talk.

46:12I saw Mike Epps talking on his back from his bed the other day.

46:17Holding his phone above him.

46:19And that's when it hit me.

46:21It's like, now we have a hard time finding a guest that doesn't have a

46:24show. Right. We can. Anyone can have a show now.

46:28Yeah. Yeah. That's kind of cool.

46:30It is kind of cool.

46:31And it's just like, and you find your own, as long as you do it

46:34long enough and you put the right attention to it and do it honestly, you'll

46:40find your own lane. You'll find your own way of doing things.

46:43I have friends who have children who have shows.

46:46Mm. Makeup tutorials and successful things going on in their bedroom.

46:51One of the biggest shows on YouTube for a long time was a kid that

46:54was like unboxing toys. Oh, that's cool.

46:58And it was sort of.

46:59But then they started monetizing it.

47:01And I think, you know, as soon as your parents start making all that money

47:04off of you opening toy boxes, shit gets weird.

47:07It's weird for kids to get famous, period.

47:09But, but it was just like, no one had thought that out, like that there

47:13would be a lot of people that were interested in you watching toys.

47:19Yeah. Yeah. Like there's a lot of shows that I watch on YouTube that it's

47:23just people cooking. Oh, yeah.

47:25I just, I love watching people.

47:26I watch a lady cook with big titties and, and just an apron, you know,

47:33side boobage be coming out.

47:35That's a trick. She's tricking it.

47:37I like watching people cook with no talking.

47:40It's just ASMR, you know, just they're like chopping up the food and you hear

47:44the sizzle and the pan and like, it's, I don't know why I like it.

47:47I love, I love watching people do things.

47:49Isn't it amazing that you're younger than I am, but when I was growing up

47:53in Cleveland, we had three channels.

47:55Right. I remember those days.

47:57Yeah. And, and, and the shit signed off at two.

48:00Right. Yeah. You da, da, da, da, da.

48:04And you fall asleep watching TV and that would wake you up.

48:07Yeah. Cause it would be just crackling.

48:09Like, oh geez, I stayed up too late.

48:11Yeah. You'd have to shut it off after the American flag.

48:13Cause the American flag would wave on the TV.

48:16Oh yeah. Right. Yeah. There would be a, a match fade from a soldier to

48:20the American flag. Yeah. And then it would just go static at two in the

48:24morning. And then I remember when Fox came out and everybody's like, this channel is

48:30crazy. Yeah. Fox is, they had the Simpsons and married with children.

48:35It changed my life, man.

48:36Those, uh, Tracy Allman. Mm -hmm.

48:38And then of course they discovered that they could get numbers with me and living

48:44color. Mm -hmm. And, uh, Fox was really important to us.

48:49Fox was important to America.

48:51I mean, it was, it was a looser, wilder network.

48:55It was like a network that was a little crazier.

48:58Mm -hmm. Like they were doing things, they were, they were getting nuts.

49:00And they had to. They had to take some chances and roll the dice in

49:03a different way. Right. Yeah.

49:05And then cable came along.

49:06It was like the slow descent into madness.

49:09Yeah. Yeah. And then all of a sudden you have 150 channels and now you

49:13have like literally an infinite number of channels because of streaming and YouTube.

49:17It's like, you can never run out of things to look at.

49:20Which is crazy because I turn a lot and I'm like, yo, motherfucker, they got

49:26two million stations and you channel chasing?

49:29I know. You can't find something?

49:30But I'm a big YouTube guy because I don't like commercials.

49:35Mm -hmm. I want what I want and I want it in small increments.

49:38I actually, as a 70 -year -old, fit more into this culture than I did

49:42the culture I was born into.

49:44I, I like things for three minutes.

49:46It's, it's fucked me up too.

49:48You know, I, I, I don't want long shit.

49:50I want quick. shit and uh i'm jumping around well when i'm watching tv i'm

49:57i'm generally trying to check out you know or i'm trying to be educated right

50:02so either i'm watching some um like particle physicists talk about the the way they

50:09find new particles by using particle colliders and large hadron colliders and the amount of

50:15energy required to duplicate the you know the conditions that happened right after the big

50:21bang i'm just like i watch a lot of that shit and then i just

50:24watch people play pool i watch people play pool and i watch you know people

50:30make furniture and people cook i'm just trying to like unwind yeah i'm just trying

50:35to like relax but that's so heavy i heard you and cat talking about the

50:40pyramids and um as a matter of fact it was part of the reason i

50:47was afraid to come here because i've heard you talk about the re -explosion of

50:52it's just when you hear that kind of shit and you're like i don't want

50:57to be here like pussy crazy huh i don't want to be that guy you

51:02know so it's intimidating to watch intelligent people have an exchange and say i got

51:08to go there is it oh yeah well i guess you don't want you don't

51:12want to be the first idiot in the room nobody oh you definitely would be

51:15the first idiot on this show and you're not an idiot anyway but there's been

51:20plenty of really fucking dumb people on this show that were great but do you

51:24know somebody that is really intelligent and conversation with them is intimidating oh sure so

51:29i was afraid of this room i mean i know people like bill clinton the

51:33first time i sat and talked to bill clinton not on the air or the

51:37second time i guess i should say it was kind of daunting because he no

51:43matter what your politics is he's a really smart guy yeah cat williams is the

51:48same way that motherfucker read a lot more books than i read well cat's brilliant

51:53i mean you can't be that funny and not be very intelligent it's the reason

51:58bill cosby was so funny he was a bright man uh -oh he just that's

52:07a problematic subject was also bill clinton i wish bill clinton didn't have so many

52:12problems because i would like to talk to him i would love to have to

52:15sit down with him on a podcast you know the problem is like how do

52:19you sit down and not talk about all the chaos and all the nutty shit

52:24and epstein files and all the other shit like you kind of almost have to

52:27talk about it so it's too bad because i think he's a fascinating person and

52:32i think he's one of the greatest presidents of all time for sure and if

52:36you go back and look at what he accomplished during his administration they balanced the

52:41budget that was like one of the first times in the history of this fucking

52:45country that we didn't have a gigantic debt now our debt's like 39 trillion it's

52:50crazy and everybody's so bad at balancing the budget and you go back and listen

52:55to him talk when he was running for president he's like super sensible like everything

52:59he said made sense and didn't he move a little to the right well i

53:04mean it wasn't to the right it was just sensible like what is to the

53:08right and what is to the left well it's accepting that a lot of things

53:13are valuable that are not a part of your party's philosophy i think we have

53:19to be willing to compromise and move a little bit uh and and that goes

53:23for all politicians we have to be able to move a little bit to be

53:27logical and serve all of america for sure but i think the problem is parties

53:32all have to agree and they then they form ideologies that you cannot stray from

53:38so if you're one of those people that says like hey maybe an open border

53:41is a bad idea because terrorists can come through like oh no there's no one's

53:47illegal on stolen land you know you get everybody gets crazy because there's a party

53:52line that you have to stick with this is today today things are incredibly polarizing

53:57but if you go back and listen to some of the things that clinton was

54:00saying when he was running for president and when he was president boy these are

54:04like almost right -wing talking points in a lot of way but they're not but

54:08it's not a little to the right but it's not really right wing it's just

54:11sensible like what is right and what is left left used to be um first

54:17of all freedom of speech was of paramount importance it used to be that they

54:22were very open minded it used to be like the that education was of crucial

54:28importance and that discourse was crucially important and that you have to look out for

54:34citizens in in sense of like having social safety nets and having welfare programs and

54:39and food stamps and all those things are which are really important for society because

54:43not everybody is in the same position in life and if we're a community of

54:47people which is what a country's supposed to be you're supposed to look out for

54:51everyone you know that that's sensible that's what the left used to be and then

54:56it became trans women or women men can get pregnant like oh and by the

55:00way when you deal with left and right you have to almost attach a year

55:04because we've seen parties change um i'm always reminded that the democratic party was the

55:14party of the clan if you go far enough back so i'm a republic rat

55:19i have to look at it all well wasn't lincoln a republican oh i believe

55:26lincoln was a republican i think the republicans were the ones who were trying to

55:29abolish slavery there was a lot of there's a lot of weird things that shift

55:34back and forth and that you you think of right wing and left wing in

55:40today's standards like we were playing a clip of hillary clinton the other day when

55:44she was running for president i think it was was it 2008 or 2012 eight

55:49when she was she was running for president she's like if you're here illegal from

55:55another country you should have to pay a stiff penalty you should have to learn

55:59english and if you have any criminal history whatsoever no questions asked you get out

56:06of the country and everyone was cheering like the lady's MAGA that sounds completely MAGA

56:11yeah that's why i say when you deal with democrat republican you have to attach

56:14a year because it's evolved and changed many times that's all you're just being manipulated

56:18and you've been manipulated by these two teams and you have to pick a team

56:23you have to decide which team you want i hate that it's so stupid i'm

56:27politically homeless i've always been political i've been politically homeless for a long time it

56:32doesn't neither one of them make any sense to me we need like a logical

56:35centrist government that like just says there's a lot of things that we should do

56:41to make this country a better place we can we can do these things and

56:45we don't have to attach them to left or right and anything that the left

56:50says that's logical the people on the right they immediately dismiss it because it's coming

56:54from the left and that happens the same where the left does it to people

56:57on the right it's dumb it's a it's a team thing it's like the dolphins

57:01versus the raiders it's just you pick a fucking team and you lay that team

57:04what a horrible game by the way you pick a team and your team rules

57:10and the other team sucks and there's a lot of people out there that are

57:13not that they're not open -minded and they love a good rigid ideology that they

57:20can adhere to so now i don't have to think for myself i have a

57:24predetermined pattern of opinions that i could just adopt and i'll just accept those and

57:29that's how i think and that's what i'm going to argue with when i was

57:32young i used to in some jokes say my my heart is democratic but my

57:39wallet is republic yeah you know but it's not even that simple anymore it's gotten

57:43much more complicated yeah much much more complicated it's like you know everyone should be

57:48anti -fraud whether you're on the left or on the right or unless you're committing

57:53fraud right then you know then i'm pro me yeah well i think a lot

57:58of people that you know are certainly benefiting from fraud would like to dismiss it

58:02whether it's the left or the right yeah there's like we have a problem in

58:06this country where we have a two -party system two -party systems are inherently flawed

58:10because there's no fucking way that one side is going to represent you entirely and

58:16it's much more likely if you have like five ten fifteen different parties that are

58:21all legitimate because we don't have another legitimate party if you vote for libertarian and

58:26i've voted libertarian before you're basically saying fuck these people you know fuck these people

58:30i'm voting you're jacking up the dolphin raider game yeah i'm voting for rugby yeah

58:39that's what you're basically saying you're like i can't get behind either one of these

58:43motherfuckers so i'm gonna vote for this guy who has no chance you know and

58:47i've done that before i did that with joe jorgensen i did that with gary

58:51johnson i voted for both of them but why do you think we've not been

58:55able to come up with legitimate third fourth and fifth parties well they got it

59:00locked down they've got it locked down and it's with donations and money yeah it's

59:04money money and politics when they got when they allowed corporations to just essentially give

59:09as much as they feel like it like and when corporations and not not just

59:13corporations but other countries this episode is brought to you by better help a lot

59:18of people hit stretches where money gets tight and it's not just the bills it's

59:23the constant pressure the mental load the second guessing of every decision and honestly one

59:29of the biggest difference makers isn't some perfect budget it's having a solid support system

59:36when things feel heavy and if that support system includes therapy even better because while

59:43it can't solve your money problems it can change your relationship with finances it can

59:50help you manage the stress anxiety and maybe even any shame you feel around money

59:56a good place to find a quality therapist is better help plus they do a

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1:00:34-l -p .com slash j -r -e oh yeah yeah yeah it's not good it's

1:00:40not good money in politics is the real problem you know it should you know

1:00:44the whole thing it's a mess and then you find out how much money politicians

1:00:48make while tsa guys have nothing yeah and politicians are still getting a motherfucking check

1:00:53yes exactly well i felt that way also about the lockdowns in california i was

1:00:59like all these people that are saying that you should have no outdoor dining your

1:01:02paycheck should be entirely dependent on the gdp of your city and if your city

1:01:07starts suffering you should fucking suffer and i guarantee you want those businesses to open

1:01:11right the fuck back up because it didn't make any sense they were doing things

1:01:14for optics only and they were doing things because they like control people love control

1:01:20they love it and once you give them power over people they're in the control

1:01:23business they like to keep that control and it just gets gross and they don't

1:01:28have any there's no repercussions they don't get in trouble if all these like california

1:01:33somebody should be in trouble for the epstein files somebody at least one person please

1:01:37yes it's crazy that we're sitting around looking at that it's crazy and we know

1:01:42it and we say it but ain't a motherfucking thing we can do about right

1:01:45it's like right now there's some talk about journalists getting in trouble for leaking information

1:01:54about the down pilot and that they want to prosecute these journalists at the same

1:01:58time no one's being prosecuted for the epstein files yeah that's nuts that's a sick

1:02:05society as a kid i did magic right and there's a thing in magic i

1:02:12take a coin and put in this hand there's a thing called misdirection that's what

1:02:15i just did to you you looked at that right i'm doing some shit right

1:02:18here right that's the story ...of American politics.

1:02:21Oh, yeah. Whenever something weird's going on...

1:02:23Look, when Monica Lewinsky, when Bill Clinton got caught with Monica Lewinsky, they mean they're

1:02:28bombing some other countries. They're like, we've got to distract these people.

1:02:32This is just too complicated.

1:02:34Look, the Epstein Files comes out.

1:02:35We go to war with Iran.

1:02:36It's a good way to get people to stop talking about certain things.

1:02:41You give them a new problem to think about.

1:02:42Hey, this morning, I wake up in a very nice hotel, thanks to you.

1:02:47Breakfast was paid for. The tip was done.

1:02:49All that shit. It was kind of cool.

1:02:52And I was nervous. And I'm thinking, I'm nervous to go see my guy and

1:02:59talk, which is insane. But then, you know, sometimes you try to focus on why

1:03:03you're really nervous. Why am I so nervous?

1:03:05And I realized it wasn't just coming here.

1:03:08I had watched about a half hour of news, and it was making my stomach

1:03:13hurt. Yeah. Because I feel so sad on a lot of levels.

1:03:18And anxiety. And news just gives me anxiety.

1:03:22But I got to, as a comic, I got to watch because I got to

1:03:25know everything. I got to have that mental Rolodex loaded for crowd work or whatever.

1:03:32Well, you have to know what's going on in the world, unfortunately.

1:03:34If I wasn't a comic, I would have no social media.

1:03:38I would never consume the news.

1:03:40I would just hide. Yeah.

1:03:41I would just, like, go to a peaceful place.

1:03:43I'd probably have a place in the mountains somewhere and just fucking chill.

1:03:47I would not want to have anything to do with any of this bullshit that's

1:03:50going on in the world.

1:03:50And I know a lot of people say, oh, you have to participate in this

1:03:53and that. Like, man, yeah, I guess.

1:03:57But I don't think your participation is having the kind of effect that you'd like

1:04:01it to have. I think it's having an effect on the way you think and

1:04:04feel much more so, like a disproportionate effect on your mental health and your anxiety

1:04:09levels. And all these different things that you cannot control by paying attention to it,

1:04:13you can't control what these fucking people are doing.

1:04:16And it just drives you nuts.

1:04:18It's frustrating because we realize, I mean, you and I are both millionaires.

1:04:23You a lot more than me.

1:04:25But at the same time, we realize we don't have enough money to really affect

1:04:29it. I mean, you... You can affect some things, I guess.

1:04:34Yeah. Not that I think about it.

1:04:35I don't want to. I don't want to affect it.

1:04:38If I can affect things in a positive way, I can.

1:04:41Yeah. I mean, there's some things that I'd like to do.

1:04:43We affect things by dispersing information of candidates.

1:04:46Yeah. And helping to inform people.

1:04:49But that kind of money that you have to have to have a dinner in

1:04:53Malibu and later get some shit done that you want to get done because the

1:04:59president is your guy now.

1:05:01Yeah. Or girl. That's very complicated.

1:05:04Yeah. And that kind of complication comes with a lot of scrutiny, a lot of

1:05:08weirdness. And also, like, you don't really know these people.

1:05:13You support people, like, for running for president or governor or mayor or whatever.

1:05:18How much do you know them?

1:05:19Are you really sure? Is this, like, is there no good option so you go

1:05:24with the least evil option?

1:05:26Well, a lot of us do that.

1:05:28Yeah. And that's really painful to think that the lesser of two evils is a

1:05:33horrible thing as a philosophy for a place we raise our children.

1:05:37Right. Yeah. There's no one person that really comes along.

1:05:41We're like, oh, finally. Like a peaceful, God -loving person who's just looking out for

1:05:46everybody's best interest who really only wants to do this because they think they can

1:05:49affect change. And then once they do try to affect change, they get fucking shot

1:05:52because nobody really wants that because they're all making money.

1:05:56When we were coming up, remember the Sam Kinison bit?

1:05:59Which bit? I think it was very similar to that people who have an idea,

1:06:04we kill them. Oh, that was Bill Hicks.

1:06:06Oh, it was Hicks? Yeah.

1:06:07Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Hicks had a great bit about that.

1:06:11Yeah. And it's totally true.

1:06:12I mean, anybody that really wants to rock the apple cart, like, that person's a

1:06:16problem. You know? And all these people that are making, well, these sociopaths that are

1:06:20making fucking billions of dollars just being cunts.

1:06:24They do not want you coming along and waking people up to that and saying,

1:06:28hey, we should put a stop to all this.

1:06:30We should, you know, we should stop these people from making.

1:06:33Like, that's why people cheered when that guy got shot, the UnitedHealthcare guy.

1:06:37He got shot. Oh, yeah.

1:06:38People were happy. They were happy.

1:06:41Like, finally. At first, I thought it was, I thought, homie who shot him, I

1:06:44thought it was his eyebrows, you know, because women were going crazy, you know?

1:06:47He was a hot guy.

1:06:48Yeah. He was a good -looking guy, too.

1:06:49He was, like, perfect guy to be, like, a martyr, like an assassin.

1:06:53By the way, have you noticed throughout history good -looking people get treated differently when

1:07:00it comes to the justice system?

1:07:02They've done experimental trials where the hot guy gets off for murder easy because 11

1:07:10women were cool with it, you know?

1:07:12Well, women are weird with killers.

1:07:14You know, when guys are even serial killers, when they go to jail, women -

1:07:18They get great letters. Yeah.

1:07:20It's weird. Proposals. Weird. Marry me.

1:07:23Yeah. Even, like, Richard Ramirez was getting all these proposals while he was in jail.

1:07:27But the ultimate game for a woman is to be married but not have to

1:07:30live with that motherfucker, you know?

1:07:32So that might be kind of cool, you know?

1:07:36Kind of. I don't know what it is.

1:07:37I heard someone talk about that, saying that there's women that like men that are

1:07:42capable of killing because back in the day, it was if someone was – if

1:07:50you needed someone to protect you, you didn't want someone that would hesitate if they

1:07:54were going to kill someone.

1:07:55You wanted someone who has experience killing people.

1:07:57So it's almost like an attractive trait, that someone's willing to cross that terrible line

1:08:02and just has no problem murdering people.

1:08:05And if they like you, they won't murder you, but they'll murder other people, like

1:08:09anybody that's a problem. I knew a girl who went out with a couple friends

1:08:13of mine, and her M .O.

1:08:16was to do something publicly that would make the man whip somebody's ass to defend

1:08:21her honor or something. And she – because that made her feel better.

1:08:27That's a crazy bitch. I've been around people like that before.

1:08:30I always got rid of them real quick.

1:08:32I've had a few ladies like that when I was – You going to let

1:08:34him say – that to me you know that i'd be like why'd you say

1:08:37that to him don't get me involved in this stupid shit but it's hard man

1:08:41i was in a club as a young man on sunset left the comedy store

1:08:44went down the street to a place called carlos and charlie's and back then they

1:08:48had uh this garment called a tube top oh it was just an elastic about

1:08:54elastic piece about eight inches or depending on your breast and um i watched a

1:08:59dude take his finger and just pull the girl's tube top down titties fell out

1:09:04and i'm watching her man he didn't know what to do you know because you

1:09:11don't want to fight these guys right you almost want to just say baby just

1:09:15put up your top let's go home you know but he had to fight yeah

1:09:18and uh in that situation i think you have to fight but you just definitely

1:09:24shouldn't be there in the first place that's the problem with going to clubs you're

1:09:28running into the potential psychopath it's just too like that's where they go where people

1:09:36act like cunts that's where they go when is the last time you went to

1:09:40a club i never go to clubs yeah it's been a long time for me

1:09:43i mean there is no club for 70 year olds no no no that's called

1:09:46arp well if you do go it's sad yeah you don't want to be the

1:09:50oldest bar yeah hey ladies yeah what's fucking grandpa doing here but but do kids

1:09:56dance now that's a good question my son has has like i remember a time

1:10:01when you say i'm doing the cabbage patch now you know it's like you knew

1:10:05what the latest dance was my son never dances i've taken him to new year's

1:10:09eve parties he never during a slow record says to a girl you want to

1:10:13dance you know you go out and slow dance what happened to that that's true

1:10:17right well because clubs got associated with violence like clubs get associated with people getting

1:10:23drunk they're doing drugs and chaos and people getting shot you know yeah there's just

1:10:29too much of that going on you hear about that at concerts too but yeah

1:10:32you're right you don't there's no new dances there's no things that like you have

1:10:36to learn you know but you know you know what's replaced it maybe the entire

1:10:41family on tiktok right tiktok has definitely got dances that you gotta learn oh really

1:10:47it is oh really yeah i mean for people that are right that's where the

1:10:51dances are that's where the dance yeah they're not going to clubs they're just doing

1:10:54a song just got viral again because they're dancing to freak on a leash it's

1:10:58a 25 year old song that has got a dance to it what's the dance

1:11:01show me the dance couldn't even begin to start it get up here do it

1:11:06show you the video you do it you've been practicing i used to uh show

1:11:11me the video what's the what's the corn dance in my head you're like get

1:11:15up and do it but i'm not do we have to not play the music

1:11:18yeah probably not yeah so this is this is the dance see it's a new

1:11:22day yeah you don't go to a club you do it with your girl i

1:11:26think they made it back on billboard because you know like the song is oh

1:11:29that's hilarious got so many plays on that's hilarious 1998 that's old wow that's crazy

1:11:37it's like i don't know and then to contrast to this is the club in

1:11:41austin where everybody goes they're not necessarily doing those dances what club is this this

1:11:45is called the concourse oh see i i can't go to a club with no

1:11:48shirt on and what do they do here uh like djs oh djs so they

1:11:54just bounce around a bunch of lasers yeah this is like a jazzy jeff concert

1:11:58yeah jazzy jeff yeah they just bounce around they're all on ecstasy everybody stares at

1:12:06the dj stage like they're performing how weird music and yeah this is a sign

1:12:10of a sick culture not that there's anything wrong with djs a different culture but

1:12:14it is like but but that there's no the other thing there's no like people

1:12:18dancing you know yeah on the old days like if you go back and you

1:12:22watch like nightclubs from like the 1960s and 70s what it was everybody like the

1:12:26disco days right that's perfect when tramp was singing burn burn this mother down right

1:12:32yeah yeah people are dancing well i remember when i was a kid saturday night

1:12:39live or saturday night fever rather came out oh and that's when everybody wanted to

1:12:44learn how to dance because john travolta he could fucking dance and they would have

1:12:48dance -offs and black people were saying we got to step up the game if

1:12:52this boy can do that right you know so we had to get better spring

1:12:57fest is happening now at lowe's keep the spotlight on your yard with stay green

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1:13:19varies by location see lowe's .com for details mulch offer exclusive alaska and hawaii right

1:13:25and then you had soul train right where everybody was dancing on tv yes yeah

1:13:30saturday morning was that that was life for me there's no shows where there's like

1:13:38a bunch of people performing music on tv anymore well that's the that's that gap

1:13:43between me and you as talkers um one of the problems i had and i

1:13:49talk in the book about this i love music and i grew up wanting to

1:13:53do that show so when they start telling me you know you can get better

1:13:59numbers with howie mandel just talking than you can with this because i put boys

1:14:06to men and the temptations together once i had to fly boys to men from

1:14:10philly i had you know and and they wanted it less black and now i

1:14:14got 14 brothers doing choreography you know and it's like no that's not what they

1:14:18wanted it less black well they would say shit like that to you oh yeah

1:14:22they they wanted um this is the carrot they said we know johnny's gonna leave

1:14:29one day you know you always think it's gonna be two years so you can

1:14:33inherit his audience if you do the right show but i joe i i used

1:14:39to do the talk show in my basement man and we put on a temptations

1:14:42record and my friend junior would be my guest and he would sing get ready

1:14:45on soul train they lip sync we knew the microphones wasn't plugged these on the

1:14:49right show that the And so he would sing and then I'd interview him.

1:14:53I wanted to do that show, but you were doing that when you were young.

1:14:56Oh, yeah. When did you?

1:14:57How old were you doing that?

1:14:5911. Really? Yeah. My mother would have rent parties.

1:15:02And so she'd rent these card tables and chairs and the people like in L

1:15:08.A. we call it town and country.

1:15:10Right. You can rent stuff for your party.

1:15:12So the next day they come and pick up the stuff in a truck.

1:15:14But before they'd pick it up, I would do a talk show with that stuff.

1:15:19And I dreamed of everything that I did eventually in my life.

1:15:24Wow. And it was it was the show I wanted to do.

1:15:28So at a certain point when they say, does Prince need a purple piano?

1:15:34You know, I said, yeah, he want a purple piano.

1:15:37And the show I was doing was just too expensive.

1:15:40And you and I talked once at the Ice House when I tried to do

1:15:44the reboot show. Yeah. I was telling you how complicated it was.

1:15:47They wanted my Twitter site.

1:15:49They took you. I was telling people they took over your fucking social media and

1:15:52they wouldn't give it back.

1:15:54Yeah. It was hard to get back.

1:15:55That's crazy. I remember you telling me that we were standing outside the outside area

1:15:59of the Ice House. And you're like, I can't get my fucking social media back.

1:16:03I'm like, that's crazy. They took your social media.

1:16:05Yeah. Yeah. And they would use it to promote other shows.

1:16:08Absolutely. And the end of of that reboot experience didn't go down exactly the way

1:16:14I wanted to. Like, like I got picked up first and Jay Leno came out

1:16:18and read a letter from Les Moonves that I was picked up for a second

1:16:21season. And then we start talking about the second season.

1:16:25And here's the great thing.

1:16:27They wanted you. You really got to stop doing the music.

1:16:31As a matter of fact, how about no house band?

1:16:33And it's interesting. Well, but what?

1:16:36But economically speaking, Joe, when I look at it, they wanted me to do Joe

1:16:40Rogan before there was a Joe Rogan.

1:16:42They just want you to talk to people and stuff.

1:16:44I'd watched Fallon with Will Smith one night and Will Smith rode in on a

1:16:49horse. And I'm like, that's expensive.

1:16:52You know, they wanted me to do what we're doing right now because this is

1:16:57cheaper to do. I would love for us to have a hip hop star here

1:17:03right now following me. But this is economically sound.

1:17:07It's a new day. Right.

1:17:09So that's all it was.

1:17:10It was just a money thing.

1:17:11They just. Well, that was the reboot show.

1:17:14The first show. You know, if they want me to be in the position to

1:17:19inherit Johnny's audience, because that's they wanted me and themselves to make more money, a

1:17:27lot of money, keep making money.

1:17:28And I was kind of kicking the bag because.

1:17:33I had wanted to do this show since I was a kid.

1:17:36I couldn't imagine. But meanwhile, the thing is, your show was so popular.

1:17:41And by the way, they got numbers one night when Whitney didn't sing.

1:17:44She just came on. And that was the kiss of death in my morning meetings,

1:17:49because they were like, look, Whitney saying nothing.

1:17:52And look at the numbers, you know, so.

1:17:54So they were shooting for the Joe Rogan experience before there was an experience.

1:17:59Fucking people concentrate on the numbers.

1:18:01It's like you're missing the trees.

1:18:03You got to, Joe. Sometimes I, you know, it's really important for me to look

1:18:07back and say, I love that show that I did and I don't regret a

1:18:13moment of it, but I get a corporate organization saying we can make more money

1:18:21and we can get more people in.

1:18:24Yeah. If I was a court, I would be a terrible corporate executive, by the

1:18:28way. Because you would leave with your heart.

1:18:30Yeah, I would say, just be you.

1:18:32Just have fun. And whatever ads we get, we get.

1:18:35Whatever money we get, we get.

1:18:36And that's good. You get plenty.

1:18:38It'll be fine. You can't, you got to let, it has to, I feel like

1:18:44every show has to be a unique expression of the person that's hosting it and

1:18:50what they're trying to do.

1:18:51Like, let that person be free.

1:18:54Like, can you imagine if Quentin Tarantino had to sit down with a group of

1:18:57people that were executives before he wrote a script?

1:19:02You would never get any of these fucking chaotic, crazy movies.

1:19:06They'd be like, no, no, no, no, no, no.

1:19:07You can't bash a woman's head on a mantelpiece.

1:19:10That's nuts. Like, don't do that.

1:19:11No, you can't, you know, like in Jackie Brown.

1:19:14No, you can't fucking shoot that girl in the parking lot.

1:19:16That's nuts. You can't do that.

1:19:18You can't do any of these things.

1:19:19You've got to let someone just be free.

1:19:22And then it finds its audience.

1:19:25Yeah. I remember when Ice -T came on to explain Cop Killer and his way

1:19:32of explaining it. Tough sell, by the way.

1:19:34Yeah. Yeah. And it was a metal band.

1:19:37Yeah. People don't realize that.

1:19:38Like, Ice -T, people forgot Body Count was a metal band.

1:19:42Yeah. You got to search that, y 'all.

1:19:44Right. A lot of people don't even know that he did that.

1:19:46You think of Ice -T.

1:19:48Ice -T, you think of Six in the Morning.

1:19:50You think of, you know, Hustler.

1:19:51You think of all those classic songs, Colors.

1:19:54You think of that. You don't think of Body Count, which is like, Ice -T

1:19:59reinvented himself. And he was like, I always love this kind of music.

1:20:03You can't tell me what the fuck I do.

1:20:05I like this kind of music, too.

1:20:07Amazing career. I know. And now he plays a cop for like 25 years.

1:20:12How about that for irony?

1:20:14I knew him when he was a pimp.

1:20:16And now he's a cop.

1:20:18Well, you remember when he was in Pimp's Up, Hoes Down?

1:20:20Yeah. Absolutely. He was in that, too.

1:20:22Yeah. I mean, he was talking about the pimp game.

1:20:25It's hilarious. Yeah. He came on.

1:20:28By the way, they didn't want me to do that, you know, book him.

1:20:33But I thought it was cool to expose America to some conversations they might not

1:20:40hear normally. Right. And the more power I got, the more I tried to push

1:20:44that envelope and do those things.

1:20:45He compared it to Schwarzenegger.

1:20:47He says, you don't think he's really the Terminator, right?

1:20:51And he says, I'm not a cop killer.

1:20:54But there's a message through this character.

1:20:56Right. And I'm paraphrasing. But yeah, but it was nice to to hear people who

1:21:01I know. I would talk to two.

1:21:03Tupac. And I would say, say that on the air.

1:21:07You got to talk about that on the air.

1:21:09And that was, we didn't have Twitter.

1:21:11We didn't have the blue bird.

1:21:13I was kind of the black bird.

1:21:14And I was able to have these, like Tupac called me once and he says,

1:21:18man, they want me to take an AIDS test before I do this movie.

1:21:22And unless I'm really going to fuck Janet, I don't think I should have to

1:21:26take an AIDS test. And I'm like, please don't say any more.

1:21:29Just come on the show.

1:21:30And this fit into both categories.

1:21:33Come on the show. Don't do any music.

1:21:34Just sit and talk. And those nights would do really good.

1:21:38Of course. Of course. Because people want to hear people really talk, especially in those

1:21:44weird settings where most of the time when people are coming on talk shows, they

1:21:48would just have this like very canned sort of like pre -programmed thing that they

1:21:53would talk about. They would talk about their character in the movie.

1:21:57People don't know we have pre -interviews, which you don't have in a show like

1:22:00this. But I get a card that morning.

1:22:04It's like, OK, here's what Jackie Collins would like to talk about.

1:22:08Or Nicole Kidman has requested that you don't mention Tom Cruise.

1:22:15And I'm like, well, tell Nicole the only reason that bitch is here is because

1:22:18I think Tom Cruise is going to walk out.

1:22:20You know, and it was crazy back then.

1:22:24Yeah. Well, it was all PR people.

1:22:27And it's again, you're dealing with too many different people that are peripheral people where

1:22:32all their money is dependent on this one person performing.

1:22:36So they just want to make sure they make the maximum amount of money possible.

1:22:39Like don't make any ripples.

1:22:40Don't cause any waves. Don't cause any problems.

1:22:43Just go out there and smile.

1:22:44And we'll sell more records.

1:22:48We'll sell more movies. TV show will get better ratings.

1:22:51Don't mess it up. Yeah.

1:22:52Guys like Prince used to be frustrated with the fact that if something's a hit,

1:22:58can you give us something like that again?

1:22:59How many beats per second is that?

1:23:01Can you give us that again?

1:23:02Or any big artist. It's like we want more of waterfalls.

1:23:07Yeah. Yeah. No, Prince was one of the most revolutionary artists ever.

1:23:14And people that don't know the early stuff, they don't know how crazy it was

1:23:18that this guy was, they have a song called Head.

1:23:22Just singing about getting head.

1:23:23First time I saw him, he was opening for the Rolling Stones.

1:23:28Wow. And the audience didn't dig him because it was different back then.

1:23:32And he was singing Soft and Wet.

1:23:34Right. Right. Well, Prince was just, he was so unique, man.

1:23:39And he predicted a lot of the things that we're dealing with now and going

1:23:42through. I remember the first time he talked about what became Napster.

1:23:47And he talked about owning your own property and what was going to happen, slave

1:23:52on his jaw. And we thought that was silly, but it meant something.

1:23:56Well, he was dealing with these crazy contracts where these record companies, these predatory record

1:24:03companies would lock you into these contracts and they fucking owned you.

1:24:07So his response to that was like, okay, I won't perform as Prince anymore.

1:24:11Now I'm fucking this shit.

1:24:12Yeah. I'm this squiggly. I'm a symbol.

1:24:14With a slave insignia on my jaw.

1:24:17What are you going to do now?

1:24:17I'm a symbol. I'm not even selling myself as Prince.

1:24:20And he would just, I mean, how revolutionary is that?

1:24:23This guy said, okay, I know the work around.

1:24:26I won't use my name anymore.

1:24:28I'll just be a symbol.

1:24:29He was a bad dude.

1:24:30But he was such a bad motherfucker that people were like, I know who that

1:24:33is. I don't care what that fucking symbol is.

1:24:36That's Prince. Let him sing.

1:24:38Let him do things. Did you ever meet him?

1:24:40No. I had one opportunity to fucking see him live and I blew it.

1:24:45At the Great Western Forum?

1:24:46No, it was at one of the hotels in Vegas, but it was a really

1:24:51late show. And I had a show earlier that night and they said, and Prince

1:24:57was doing small shows back then.

1:24:59It was like this small, like intimate audience, but it was like after midnight, I

1:25:04was like, I'm fucking tired.

1:25:05I'm going to go to sleep.

1:25:06And this is like, I fucked up, man.

1:25:09I fucked up. It's isn't doing like big shows anymore.

1:25:16And he was doing this late night show and people were saying it was really

1:25:20good, but I was like, I'm tired.

1:25:21I'm not going to see this.

1:25:22And then years later when he was dead, I was like, God, did I fuck

1:25:25up? I always thought Prince was going to be around.

1:25:27Yeah. And we lost Prince to fentanyl.

1:25:30Yeah. A lot of people don't even know that.

1:25:32Alone in an elevator. God damn.

1:25:34Oh, I remember the musicology album where he toured and he attached the album to

1:25:41the ticket so that when you bought a ticket, you were buying an album and

1:25:46it instantly became a million dollar seller with that philosophy.

1:25:49He had genius that was way ahead of the pimps.

1:25:53Yeah. You know, I love it.

1:25:55He just knew that he was being fucked and he knew that all they're selling

1:26:00is his brilliance. They don't have anything.

1:26:02What is a record company selling?

1:26:04They're only selling the art.

1:26:06That's it. They don't make it.

1:26:08And they were getting a penny, a copy.

1:26:10Yeah, exactly. The record company was getting most of it.

1:26:13And now it makes even less sense because nobody even buys albums anymore.

1:26:18It's like, how the fuck are these record companies even surviving?

1:26:21It's so crazy that they still figure out a way to latch their tentacles onto

1:26:26these young artists. And for young artists, they feel like they've made it when they're

1:26:31a part of a record deal.

1:26:32Like, I got a deal.

1:26:33And I almost want to tell them, like...

1:26:36That ain't a deal. You got to deal with the devil.

1:26:38Like, if you just put your shit on YouTube or on SoundCloud or anywhere where

1:26:42people hear it and they start sharing it, you'll be huge.

1:26:45Yeah. We're getting smarter and learning how to deal with the pimps that have us.

1:26:50You know, I talk in the book about...

1:26:53Prince also had a great sense of humor.

1:26:56You would have loved him, you know, as a person beyond the musician.

1:27:01And there was a time when I was hosting the MTV Awards and he had

1:27:06no ass in his pants.

1:27:08And, you know, so when he's coming past me down the hall, I realized, oh,

1:27:15shit, because this motherfucker ain't got no ass.

1:27:18As in his pants, we'll be talking about this tomorrow.

1:27:21So, obviously, when I get back to the show, my first monologue is about that

1:27:26night. Look at this. Yes!

1:27:27Yes! 1991. Isn't that crazy?

1:27:34That was nuts. 1991. So I do jokes about that in the monologues.

1:27:39And, like, a week or two after the jokes, I get a box in the

1:27:47mail at Paramount, and it's from Prince.

1:27:50And I open it. I figure it's maybe a hoodie.

1:27:54Right. I opened it, and it's a beautiful black and white suit with all the

1:27:58Prince symbols on it. Made me look like I was the drummer for New Power

1:28:02Generation or something. It was a cool suit.

1:28:04And I'm looking at it, and my assistant said, turn it around.

1:28:13I turned it around. There was no ass.

1:28:16Did you wear it? No leg.

1:28:18Hell no. Not even at the crib.

1:28:21I never put it on.

1:28:23It's like I could never bring myself to putting on that suit.

1:28:26It had no back, Joe.

1:28:28Oh, that's hilarious. But that's his sense of humor.

1:28:30That's hilarious. That's so funny.

1:28:32I took him to an after -hours joint once.

1:28:35I talk about that in the book.

1:28:37Because he was very interested in what people listen to and what moves people in

1:28:41clubs. And I told him about an after -hours joint down the way south of

1:28:45Wilshire that was in a lady's house.

1:28:47And you have pit bulls and a fence, and they let you in.

1:28:51They lock the chain back, bring you to the back.

1:28:54And, you know, you put money on the counter, and they put your liquor in

1:28:58a solo cup. You know, not a legal place.

1:29:02And I told him about the place, and he said, I want to go.

1:29:06And I took him down the way to this spot.

1:29:09He had an acrylic cane and a suit where the shoes match the suit, exact

1:29:15same material. And he sat with me in this after -hours joint and listened to

1:29:22the music. And it was where the strippers were going.

1:29:24What year was this? Oh, God.

1:29:26This was maybe two years after I left the talk show.

1:29:31So did he need the cane back then?

1:29:33Was that when he was having hip problems?

1:29:34I think so. Now we understand that maybe he had a replacement, a hip replacement

1:29:39or something. I thought it was fashion, but it probably was a little necessary that

1:29:44year. Well, he was all his dancing.

1:29:47Oh, he used to jump off speakers, Joe.

1:29:50Yeah, yeah. And land with heels.

1:29:52Mm -hmm. That's what fucked him up.

1:29:54Yeah. Yeah. I've got a lot of pictures with him of the cane over time,

1:29:59though. Well, he probably was struggling even back then.

1:30:02Because there's a lot of guys that blew their hips out.

1:30:06Yeah. He probably needed it.

1:30:09Because he was an athlete, per se.

1:30:11Oh, for sure. I mean, his dancing was insane.

1:30:14And he was a good basketball player.

1:30:17Hey, I have one of those.

1:30:20The police hat with the chain, he sent me that one day.

1:30:24So I'm sure there are a few of them.

1:30:26But just to have one of those from him.

1:30:28And he sent me what looks like a Smith & Wesson .38 long, but it

1:30:35was fixed up so the microphone was where the barrel is.

1:30:40So he could hold the gun and sing into it like that.

1:30:42Oh, wow. I have that.

1:30:43Oh, wow. It's very cool.

1:30:44Very cool. I became good friends with Charlie Murphy.

1:30:47And Charlie had. Oh, look at that.

1:30:49Yes. Wow. Wow. That's crazy.

1:30:55I have one of those.

1:30:56I don't know how many there were, but I have one from both.

1:30:58That's crazy. Wow. But Charlie Murphy?

1:31:02Well, Charlie had all those great stories about Prince that he did on Chappelle's show.

1:31:07Yeah. Yeah. You know, I mean, that was like that whole segment of like how

1:31:10good Prince was as a basketball.

1:31:12And then people didn't believe it because, you know, he's so short.

1:31:15But meanwhile, he could fucking play like a motherfucker.

1:31:17He had a crossover move that was crazy.

1:31:21And he could roller skate.

1:31:24And, I mean, amazing. With a lollipop backwards and shit on one foot.

1:31:29You know? So he was.

1:31:31He was an athlete. Yeah.

1:31:32And really, I mean, you can't dance like that and not have incredible body control.

1:31:37Yeah. But the problem is when you're doing show after show after show after show

1:31:40after show. For years. You're tearing your fucking joints apart.

1:31:44And that's probably what blew his hips out.

1:31:46That's one thing about us, with the exception of the shit you used to do

1:31:49on a stool, that balancing act.

1:31:51Oh, the Kardashian joke? Yeah.

1:31:53Our joke, our life of jokes isn't very physical.

1:31:56No. You know, all we got to do is take care of from the neck

1:31:59up. Take care of your mind.

1:32:00Yeah. Our body. No comedian has a bad hip.

1:32:04Well, you generally don't get it from performing on stage, that's for sure.

1:32:07But when you're dancing and jumping around and doing all that shit, like, Ted Nugent

1:32:11blew his knees out jumping off of speakers.

1:32:15Like, a lot of people did that.

1:32:17You know, they just, they went crazy.

1:32:18They were just putting on a show and you don't realize you're doing it.

1:32:21Maynard from Tool, he blew his hip out stomping on the ground all the time.

1:32:25Wow. Just stomping while he was singing.

1:32:27He had to get a hip replacement.

1:32:29Yeah. I like being a stand -up.

1:32:32Well, it's definitely easier on the body.

1:32:34That's true. You know? You still get up on stage ever?

1:32:37Oh, yeah. All the time.

1:32:38I'm going up tonight. In your own club?

1:32:40Yeah. What nights do you go up?

1:32:42Usually Tuesday and Wednesday I do it, but I do it, you know, off nights

1:32:45too, different nights. But Tuesday and Wednesday, almost every week, I do a show there.

1:32:49K -pop Demon Hunters, Saja Boys Breakfast Meal, and Huntrix Meal have just dropped at

1:32:54McDonald's. They're calling this a battle for the fans.

1:32:57What do you say to that, Rumi?

1:32:58It's not a battle. So glad the Saja Boys could take breakfast and give our

1:33:02meal the rest of the day.

1:33:03It is an honor to share.

1:33:05No, it's our honor. It is our larger honor.

1:33:09No, really. Stop. You can really feel the respect in this battle.

1:33:14Pick a meal to pick a side.

1:33:17And participate in McDonald's while supplies last.

1:33:19I promised my woman I wouldn't go to the mothership.

1:33:22Why? When I told her, she's like, when you go, I want to go.

1:33:26It's a big deal if you're a comic, you know?

1:33:29I mean, it's a... Huge deal.

1:33:33But I want to come one night, fly in, and just let me have 10.

1:33:38Dude, you can go up anytime.

1:33:39You can go up tonight if you want.

1:33:40I got to show it tonight.

1:33:41Yeah, I got to fly home and do it.

1:33:44I'm still slinging this book, man.

1:33:46I hear you, brother. Well, anytime.

1:33:47Anytime you want to come by and do a set, you're more than welcome.

1:33:50I love it. Come and hang out.

1:33:52Everybody's been so friendly. The green room's an amazing hang, too.

1:33:55That's what I hear, but I've heard both sides of that.

1:33:58I've heard, don't be in that motherfucker if you're not supposed to.

1:34:01Well, the problem is you don't want anybody coming in and fucking up the conversation.

1:34:05So, you know, you got to be kind of vetted.

1:34:08But it's only like during shows when you're not on.

1:34:11You know, if like if it's a show and you're on the show, everyone's allowed

1:34:16to be in the green room.

1:34:17It's just like we don't allow people to just come in out of nowhere.

1:34:21There's like you're from out of town.

1:34:23You want to come in and hang out in the green room.

1:34:25Then there's too many people in the green room.

1:34:26And then people have to prepare.

1:34:27They're going over their notes.

1:34:29The green room is supposed to be a hang with the comics on the show

1:34:33that are getting ready to go on stage.

1:34:34And the problem is that's the cool spot.

1:34:36That's where Shane Gillis is and Ron White is.

1:34:39Tony Hinchcliffe is. Everybody wants to come in.

1:34:41And, you know, it gets it gets to be a little bit of a problem.

1:34:45So you can't go in the green room if you're not on the show unless

1:34:48we know who you are.

1:34:49You know, you're in down.

1:34:50You want to come hang.

1:34:51But it's like, you know, it's like you're having a party.

1:34:53You can't let everybody in.

1:34:54The problem is everybody wants to be there.

1:34:56I mean, look at the level I'm at and how long I've been doing it.

1:34:59And I know about the green room and want to get in there.

1:35:03You can get it anytime.

1:35:04But when you were in living in Hollywood still, did your kids ever want to

1:35:10act? No, no, they're not interested in that.

1:35:13Yeah. Never wanted to stand up.

1:35:16No, they wouldn't. First of all, rich kids are not going to be good stand

1:35:19ups. You're not going to be able to deal with the torture of bombing, you

1:35:26know, you're not going to.

1:35:27And they don't have to.

1:35:28And they don't have pain.

1:35:29You know, their their pain is so minor in comparison to the pain of poverty,

1:35:34the pain of struggle, the pain of, you know, not getting enough attention when you're

1:35:38young. And, you know, moving around a lot, all the different shit that most comics

1:35:42go through. I've never met a good comic who had a great childhood.

1:35:45As you're talking, I'm thinking, I'm like, do we know any comics who are good,

1:35:51who are from wealth? None.

1:35:53I don't know any. I'm sure they can exist.

1:35:54I'm sure it's possible. But it takes a very exceptional person to want to be

1:35:59a great comic that's grew up wealthy.

1:36:02It's just not a thing that they seek to do.

1:36:06So much so much comedy comes from our pain.

1:36:08I think the only exception to that would be the Wayans brothers, because the sons

1:36:14of the Wayans brothers all went on to be great comics.

1:36:17They all went on to have big careers in movies and films and television.

1:36:20But I think that's it's like a family thing over there.

1:36:24Like, I remember Damon telling me that he set up a stage in his house.

1:36:28That's absolutely true. I mean, they love stand -up so much they would fucking do

1:36:33stand -up for each other.

1:36:34Just fuck around. I used to see, first of all, I think to this day,

1:36:39Damon is one of the most underappreciated great comics of all time.

1:36:44And he's back out there.

1:36:45Now, I noticed in my room, Damon is at the Improv.

1:36:50Well, he's always been out there.

1:36:51I thought he quit. No, no, no.

1:36:52He never quit. He was always doing stand -up, but he's low -key about it.

1:36:55He makes his money off of television, you know?

1:36:58And even like, he wanted to do, we talked years ago about him coming on

1:37:02my podcast. And he was like, I'd like to, but I'll say some crazy shit

1:37:06and then I'll get in trouble.

1:37:08Because he was in what I call the Velvet Prison.

1:37:11The TV Velvet Prison. Oh, yeah.

1:37:13You're doing TV shows. You're playing a dad on a TV show, you know?

1:37:17You can't come on a podcast and talk about getting your dick sucked.

1:37:20It's just... Howie Mandel goes through that.

1:37:23I work with him a lot.

1:37:24And Howie is on America's Got Talent.

1:37:27Exactly. This real commercial television vehicle.

1:37:30But nobody is more real and edgy than Howie Mandel.

1:37:36When he's on stage and in the green room, hanging out.

1:37:39Like, he's done sets at the Mothership.

1:37:41He's come and hung out with us.

1:37:42Yeah. He did my podcast and he came to the club.

1:37:45He's like, fuck, I want to be like that.

1:37:46I want to do what you guys are doing.

1:37:48Yeah. I'm like, you can.

1:37:49You can do it. But he's worried that he would lose that Velvet Prison.

1:37:53Hey, when we're working and they have the phones in bags, that's when he's amazing

1:37:59to watch. Yes. Because he'll drop the C -bomb in a minute.

1:38:03He was saying it. He was saying it on stage.

1:38:04I'm just so happy I can say cunt.

1:38:06Yeah. I just want to say it.

1:38:08But he was funny. It was like he was having a good time.

1:38:11He was loose and you could tell.

1:38:13It's like, because Howie was a great comic.

1:38:15Like, Howie had some hilarious fucking specials.

1:38:18I hated following him at the Westwood Comedy Store.

1:38:21Mitzi used to send us there to get better.

1:38:23Me, him, and Pauly. That's the one thing I loved about her.

1:38:27You know how we have nepo babies?

1:38:29She didn't have no nepo babies.

1:38:31She was like, Pauly, you're not ready.

1:38:33Yeah. Oh, she would make you work.

1:38:34And sent his ass to Westwood.

1:38:35Oh, she made Pauly work.

1:38:37Yeah. I mean, Pauly's a rare dude in that regard.

1:38:40Like, he became a really funny comedian while he was, you know, living with a

1:38:46woman who's the great—in terms of, like, people in comedy that are, like, some of

1:38:53the most critical, important people, she is the most important person in the history of

1:38:57comedy that's not a comic.

1:38:59Absolutely. There is no argument.

1:39:01No argument. There's no one even close to her.

1:39:03And her son, you know, I mean, went on to have huge success in films

1:39:08and movies. I took Mitzi—remember when we had the Universal Amphitheater?

1:39:12Mm -hmm. I got tickets and took Mitzi to see Pauly open for Sam Kennison.

1:39:19Wow. And it just blew her away because she had never seen him in that

1:39:23large environment. And it was really cool to watch her watch her son.

1:39:27Well, she let him grow the right way.

1:39:30You know, she didn't give him a silver spoon.

1:39:33By the way, Mitzi Shore started the comedy store and she's the mother of Pauly

1:39:38Shore. Because I say Mitzi to you like it's a cousin.

1:39:42Right. Well, we talk about her so much.

1:39:44I think a lot of people listening know.

1:39:46But she's— the most important person in comedy that wasn't a comic and more important

1:39:51than most comedians like she would tell you how to do it right and if

1:39:55she liked you man it was like she tell you how to do it in

1:40:01her opinion i've seen her tell some people some crazy shit oh yeah she was

1:40:04not right a lot of times she had some wild ideas that she had a

1:40:08girl put on a green wig one time and i'm like i'm not sure you

1:40:13know but she was trying to find some kind of hook for this girl and

1:40:16i'm like if you don't want to have to wear the green wig go home

1:40:19and figure out a hook yeah she she made joey diaz call himself fat baby

1:40:24she ouch she when you would look at the lineup like i bet you could

1:40:30find it online if you looked there's lineups from the comedy store be a bunch

1:40:34of comedians bill burr blah blah and then you'd see fat baby and that was

1:40:38joey diaz she would call him fat baby she would would even let him use

1:40:43his fucking name in the lineup it would be fat baby i remember having a

1:40:48conversation with her and paul and paul was exacerbating the problem because she was like

1:40:53rodriguez uh paul mooney oh mooney oh we got so many pauls in our life

1:40:57so we're sitting that dude talking and uh mitzi's about to start the belly room

1:41:03because she thinks women need a place to perform and uh to get better she

1:41:08that was what the belly room originally was a little college up there yeah for

1:41:11ladies and she was trying to think of a name for it and she says

1:41:16i'm also thinking about having one night of just black comics you know because there

1:41:20was only george wallace dave tyree and mooney at one time when i arrived and

1:41:26uh what year was that i came in 1980 new year's eve wow i drove

1:41:32out from chicago because i'm from cleveland and there were no comedy clubs in cleveland

1:41:36back then so i had to go to new york la or chicago and my

1:41:40mother was living in chicago at that time so i went there because rent was

1:41:43free for a while and uh that that was a lot of fun but mitzi

1:41:50for the black night she said paul what do you think i should call in

1:41:54and and she says i was thinking cotton comedy and and i'm not no mitzi

1:42:01no no you can't you can't and i was trying to explain why and paul

1:42:04was like oh that's wonderful let's that's exactly what we should call it oh homie

1:42:10oh homie he was cool oh man paul that guy that guy would write man

1:42:19there'd be something that would happen in the news like the day before and mooney

1:42:23would go on stage and have like 15 minutes on it and just crush and

1:42:26he did something that i know i hate it he requested the last spot oh

1:42:31he loved that wanted to go on late wanted to stay on as long as

1:42:34he wanted and would fuck with you if you tried to get up oh you

1:42:39don't like a smart nigga but don't leave too early my friends at your house

1:42:45robbing that he would have so many things like that so many hooks and he

1:42:50was just so good at working those small crowds he just liked the freedom of

1:42:55just being able to fuck around you know with a bottle of champagne with a

1:42:58straw a little tiny bottle yeah the little yeah and he would you he would

1:43:02sip on it during punchlines oh nigga please and then take a sip we all

1:43:08used to sit in the back and watch him it's like if you thought you

1:43:11were good at comedy you'd watch mooney and go god i got so much to

1:43:13learn yeah i got so much to learn all the great comics that we know

1:43:18now at one time would sit in the back of the or and and come

1:43:23late to watch paul absolutely i used to on the landline i used to call

1:43:28keenan and say yo i'll meet you there we were going to see mooney at

1:43:32115 i would always love to see mooney when something fucked up happened in the

1:43:36news like if there's something fucked up happened in the news like when's paul going

1:43:40up yeah you know it's just like you had to go see him because he

1:43:43always had a take and you know that take was always like oh shit you

1:43:47know it was like he would get you he would like find an angle where

1:43:52you'd be like oh my god oh my god he was he was so clever

1:43:56the coolest conversations at the comedy show when richard would come up every night and

1:44:01richard would go from five minutes to an hour and then it would become a

1:44:04great special that you go to at the theater to see but i would watch

1:44:08paul mooney before we had cell phones after it was over richard would go and

1:44:12have a cigarette in the main room like on a monday or sunday i think

1:44:16it would be closed and that's where he would call it holding court he would

1:44:19go in there first and just want to dry off for a minute smoke a

1:44:23cigarette and paul would come in with a napkin with stuff written on it and

1:44:28he would just you know oh and how about this and he would give him

1:44:32tags and yeah richard on the back of an album that that joke you go

1:44:36to you go to prison you get justice just us nigga and he gave that

1:44:42to richard and it was on a prior album but uh oh those joe that

1:44:47was a time richard would work out every night he'd work the original room go

1:44:51in the main room and entertain his guest and it would be like burt reynolds

1:44:57uh moses uh charlton heston uh wow bernie casey but you you would see like

1:45:05uh oh burt reynolds would have sally field with him wow it was amazing they

1:45:10would all come and bow to the king dog yeah well he was so different

1:45:15yeah i always say that the godfather of comedy who started everything was lenny bruce

1:45:20but then richard figured out a way to take that and make it way funnier

1:45:25but he figured out how to take that kind of honesty and social commentary and

1:45:31figure out how to like talk about life because people don't know that before before

1:45:37lenny bruce came around it was just jokes it was just like two jews walking

1:45:43to a bar they buy it yeah it was jokes it was like it was

1:45:47dangerfield's rhythm yeah but you know what dangerfield was a he was a special guy

1:45:53too he was a beast man and he didn't he took like 10 years off

1:45:58and never stopped writing and was selling aluminum siding you Yeah.

1:46:02And then came back and made it in his 40s.

1:46:05Yeah. Wow, look at this.

1:46:08That's the main room. That's the main room, yeah.

1:46:10That's crazy. Burt Reynolds, Sally Fields.

1:46:13Now, you see that picture.

1:46:14One night, I'm in that room, and Stevie Wonder is over on the piano.

1:46:19Remember how the piano used to be in the main room on the far left

1:46:21of the stage? Stevie's playing, and there are a few people snorting coke.

1:46:26I think, to this day, Stevie still thinks a few of those people have allergies,

1:46:31because, you know, he's just sitting playing, and people are like, wow, wow, look at

1:46:37that, Burt Reynolds on stage, Robin Williams.

1:46:39I saw Burt Reynolds give the parking attendant $100, and I thought I was on

1:46:43another planet. I'm like, get the fuck out of here.

1:46:46I should be parking cars, fuck, stand up.

1:46:49Yeah, that was, that's, and for people who are looking at this picture, that's Richard

1:46:54holding court after his set.

1:46:57Wow. What an amazing photo.

1:47:01Well, Jamie, we should get some of these photos, and, yeah, get some of these

1:47:05photos, and let's print them up and put them in the green room at the

1:47:08mothership. I saw a picture.

1:47:10That's it back. He's got the zero signs in the back.

1:47:12Oh, yeah. Still, still, yeah.

1:47:15That tells you a lot about the history.

1:47:17Search. Search zeros. I mean, that sign used to be, Mitzi had this warehouse room,

1:47:22like, was just, not a warehouse, but, you know, it was a storage room where

1:47:25she had all the old zero stuff, and I remember seeing that sign there, and

1:47:30they eventually hung it up in the back bar area, and you just look like,

1:47:34wow, this was, this was a mob club in, like, the fucking fifties.

1:47:40Yeah. That's crazy. I saw a picture you have in the entry of Richard Pryor's

1:47:47mugshot. Yeah. I had never seen that.

1:47:50What did he do? I don't remember.

1:47:55Yeah. I don't remember, but he was very young.

1:47:58That mugshot was, I think he was, like, 18.

1:48:01Yeah. I don't remember what it was.

1:48:02I have mugshots from everybody who got arrested.

1:48:05Yeah, I saw Larry King.

1:48:07Larry King was, like, bad checks.

1:48:08He was writing bad checks.

1:48:10He had a gambling problem.

1:48:11Oh. Yeah. Yeah. Willie Nelson's up there.

1:48:15Yeah. I got everybody up there.

1:48:17There is a book that I have in my garage, and it's the first edition

1:48:22to tell you how much of this kind of stuff existed, but it's all celebrities

1:48:30and their mugshots. So it's a coffee table book of just the mugshots.

1:48:35Oh, I should probably get that book.

1:48:36I bet there's a few in there that I don't have.

1:48:38And I bet there is a second one that they could do.

1:48:41Yeah. Because the book's only, like, a half -inch thick.

1:48:43So we got a lot of good ones out there, but, you know, so many

1:48:49people got arrested. You know, we got David Bowie out there.

1:48:54Of course, Morrison. You know, it's like Hendrix got to have that mugshot.

1:48:59That's a classic. Yeah. There was a lot of mugshots.

1:49:02Have you ever taken a mugshot?

1:49:03No, I've never been arrested.

1:49:05Yeah, I've never been arrested.

1:49:06That's a good boy, believe it or not.

1:49:07Yeah. You know, I mean, we've done things, but not enough to have to take

1:49:15those pictures. Yeah, luckily. But also, we live in a different time, you know, in

1:49:20the 1960s and 70s when those guys are getting arrested.

1:49:24They're getting arrested for, like, having a joint or something like that.

1:49:26Yeah. Oh, yeah. Richard, or excuse me, Jimmy, I think he got arrested in Toronto

1:49:31for having heroin on him.

1:49:33I think that's what he got arrested for.

1:49:35I got pulled over and had a joint in my ashtray in 1989, and I

1:49:44was scared to death, and the cop was real nice to me, but he did

1:49:48the corniest thing. He says, get out of the car, and he made me rip

1:49:53up the joint and drop it in the sewer at the curb there, and he

1:49:57says, now get your life together.

1:50:01Like, bitch, this is helping me get my life together.

1:50:03Absolutely. It makes me funnier.

1:50:04That's funny. That's hilarious. The good old days, man.

1:50:08I remember you talking about Rodney earlier, Rodney Dangerfield.

1:50:13You know how we love comedy.

1:50:15We'll never stop doing it.

1:50:17We'll do it until the wheels fall off.

1:50:19And I remember him on stage at the Laugh Factory near the end of his

1:50:23life. I saw him there.

1:50:25And his wife was in the balcony giving him lines through a wireless earwig, and

1:50:33if you went up top, you would hear her say, I don't get no respect.

1:50:39I don't get no respect.

1:50:40You know, and first of all, two things.

1:50:44First of all, it warmed my heart that the woman who loves you is going

1:50:48to help you do what you love.

1:50:49So that made me feel so good.

1:50:53And it was like, I want a woman with that kind of heart because I

1:50:56know I'm going to want to do it when I'm older.

1:50:58She gave us his notes from one of his Tonight Show appearances, and they're framed

1:51:03on the wall in the green room.

1:51:05It's his handwritten notes in bold.

1:51:08He would write it in bold where the punchlines were.

1:51:11It's like sitting there right above the couch.

1:51:14That's cool, man. Yeah. It was one of the first things.

1:51:17Whitney Cummings hooked it up.

1:51:18She got it for us from her.

1:51:20She wanted us to have it.

1:51:22Whitney Cummings, eh? I saw Rodney live when I was a security guard.

1:51:27I was a security guard at Great Woods, Great Woods Center for the Performing Arts,

1:51:32which was in Mansfield, Massachusetts.

1:51:34Oh. I lived in Boston.

1:51:36Yeah. Me and a bunch of the black belts from this Taekwondo team that I

1:51:40was on got jobs as security guards.

1:51:43And I was 19, and I was backstage, and Rodney was walking around with a

1:51:46bathrobe on with nothing underneath it.

1:51:49That was when he was going on stage with a bathrobe.

1:51:51He got to such a fuck it point in his life where he would literally

1:51:55go on stage with nothing but a bathrobe.

1:51:57He would walk out there with a bathrobe and slippers and just fucking murder.

1:52:02I remember being in the office, and I wasn't even thinking about doing stand -up

1:52:05back then. Back then, I was just fighting, and I was a fan of comedy.

1:52:10I always loved comedy. Your fighting friends talked you into doing stand -up, right?

1:52:14Yeah. Yeah, one of the guys that I trained with.

1:52:16My friends. My friends. Eve but when I when I went there I remember like

1:52:19like you want to talk about not giving a fuck like this guy Really didn't

1:52:23give a fuck like he had gotten to a point.

1:52:25We had so much success and so much money And this is after back to

1:52:29school and all those big movies And he was still just going out there doing

1:52:32stand -up. He was smoking weed back there And he just would go on stage

1:52:36with a bathrobe on And I remember thinking that is a wildest shit I've ever

1:52:41seen in my life I remember as a young man because I was always You

1:52:44know fucking 19 you're scared of everything.

1:52:48You're worried about the future.

1:52:49You don't know what you know, you have no Security in your life at all

1:52:53and here's this guy with you know millions of dollars Massive amounts of fame and

1:52:59he had got to that.

1:53:00I don't give a fuck But he really did he wasn't faking it.

1:53:05Nobody told him he has to go on stage in a bathrobe I was like

1:53:07I'll tell you what I want to do.

1:53:09I want to go on stage with a bathrobe He just went on stage with

1:53:12a fucking bathrobe See if you can find some photos of him on stage with

1:53:16a bathrobe on. I know he did it for years I got in trouble because

1:53:21easy e came on my show in his bathrobe And he was like you gave

1:53:26it to me, you know, because we give out bathrobes and so he said well

1:53:30fuck it I'll wear it out there and he wore it out and had a

1:53:33he was picking his teeth with a knife and paramount was like Oh man, this

1:53:38is not what we asked him for.

1:53:40This is really not what we asked him for He'll never replace johnny.

1:53:44Oh fuck off, but but I knew those people were ridiculous Hey, I was where

1:53:48I was because I snuck in through syndication did a first run syndication.

1:53:52I know Network wasn't for me and when letterman got cbs.

1:53:56I knew I was really in trouble So I had to figure out an exit

1:53:59plan, but the bottom line is for six years I did it the way I

1:54:03wanted to do it and I wouldn't change a thing man to do it for

1:54:0526 years I wouldn't trade those six the thing about it is man.

1:54:10Everybody wanted to be johnny back then it was so crazy Even letterman.

1:54:14I joked at the emmys.

1:54:15I said I had a dream I wanted to be an old white man with

1:54:18a desk, you know And that was my I was to the point joe that

1:54:23when I made it I hired Johnny's architect That built his house to build me

1:54:29a house. I was deep into the shit like that Well, he was the guy

1:54:33people don't realize like that was the carrot that was the thing that they got

1:54:38I mean Jay Leno and like that famous scene in that movie that talked about

1:54:42it where Jay Leno would hide in the closet Listen to them talk about it

1:54:45because he wanted that spot when johnny retired But let they wanted letterman and it

1:54:50was like this battle between like what made no sense to me My letterman has

1:54:54the letterman show. It's fucking huge.

1:54:56It's amazing. Why would you want to do anything else?

1:54:58But everybody wanted that tonight show absolutely wanted the tonight show and when I was

1:55:03a kid I was a magician.

1:55:04That's how I started and I read an article that said that johnny did sleight

1:55:09of hand and was a magician So to me that was god speaking to me

1:55:13It was like you are a magician and you do a talk show in a

1:55:17basement Ooh One day Yeah, one day Isn't it crazy though that it had to

1:55:23be the tonight show for everybody?

1:55:25It wasn't get your own talk show Joe doing stand -up getting that five minutes

1:55:30having jim mccauley come see you.

1:55:32I got on Dinah shore No, no, uh, mike douglas and I got on merv

1:55:38griffin Didn't didn't do it for me I needed jim mccauley say the tonight show

1:55:44is yours Yeah, isn't that crazy?

1:55:46Did you do did you were too young?

1:55:48Yeah, I was too young and it's also like for me I didn't understand it

1:55:53Mm -hmm Like I used to like watching when comics were on the tonight show,

1:55:58but it didn't Like you remember the night roseanne came on yeah domestic goddess.

1:56:03Yeah, I was like, oh shit.

1:56:04She's funny Oh, she was so funny she can write she was so funny Roseanne

1:56:08was like way ahead of her time She was so wild.

1:56:11There was no one like her when she came out.

1:56:13Yeah, she's still wild She comes this to the mothership all the time and as

1:56:17wild as she is joe the night I called her and said I need To

1:56:25rearrange the show tonight her and tom were coming And it was tom arnold.

1:56:30Yes, and it was the morning that I'd gotten the call from ervin magic johnson

1:56:34that he was hiv positive, so I needed the whole show And this how cool

1:56:39she was she says Give me another date, but i'm still coming because we love

1:56:44ervin Oh, and they came and stood on the side that night when ervin came

1:56:50and talked about it She's cool.

1:56:53She's cool. She's crazy as fuck.

1:56:56Yeah, it's cool Aren't we all and don't we have to be you have to

1:57:00be yeah a little bit We got to be the different kid in the neighborhood.

1:57:04Yeah If you want to be as good as she was as people they don't

1:57:08you got to go back and watch some of her specials She was killing in

1:57:12a way that no woman killed like that.

1:57:14It was different. It was like aggressive It was aggressive and angry.

1:57:19It was it was oh with a tent dress on yeah She didn't sell us

1:57:22any sexuality at all. It was just great writing Just great writing and great performing

1:57:27and a lot of I don't give a fuck Mm -hmm and it was just

1:57:30oh Do you find any photos of Rodney with a bathrobe on?

1:57:34I mean yes, but not on stage.

1:57:35No There's only yeah, I don't even know if they exist Well, that was that

1:57:42was don't exist. That's crazy.

1:57:44That was a pre -show right there He's you think he's not ready, but he's

1:57:48dressed. Yeah, right writing writing.

1:57:51Look at the phone Look at the landline.

1:57:53Isn't that crazy? I showed my son one of those.

1:57:56He couldn't believe that to drop dollar nine It was and if you missed one

1:58:02of them and fucked it up you to start from scratch.

1:58:04It was crazy. Yeah Back in the day.

1:58:08Yeah, I remember when uh The iPhone first came out and it didn't have actual

1:58:15buttons like a StarTag Mm -hmm and I was freaking it's like how will I

1:58:19know where the L is?

1:58:21Yeah, I can't feel it I remember I had a blackberry back then you couldn't

1:58:25convince me that I needed to get an iPhone I was like this is ridiculous.

1:58:28Yeah, I'm not typing on that stupid thing.

1:58:30I don't even where the buttons are it's great you don't it makes a click

1:58:34sound that's stupid before you know it we were doing it we turned off the

1:58:37click and it says a lot about progress don't don't be afraid to change well

1:58:40now i talk to it now i hardly ever text i just say uh text

1:58:45arsenio like say hey man looking forward to seeing you tonight blah blah blah and

1:58:50just send it yeah i make most of my text messages i just talk to

1:58:54my phone yeah pretty much me and siri uh and you can't say the n

1:59:00-word to siri the other night i was writing no she won't fuck with the

1:59:03n -word because siri's like google will she's like i'm not getting canceled you know

1:59:08and let alexa have the whole business i'm not to get you know but you

1:59:12know i'm writing a joke and i said the n -word uh of course i

1:59:16didn't say n -word i said negative and siri would not write it and then

1:59:21when i kept saying it she started writing other things you know that started with

1:59:25an n you know but they weren't even words and and i'm like so they

1:59:29got siri trained that's so weird she's not getting canceled it's weird that it took

1:59:35it wasn't even 10 years and then everybody just got accustomed to having a phone

1:59:41with them all the time like there was think about like the difference between like

1:59:47it was probably like what is like 97 98 when everybody had those motorolas right

1:59:53it was around then right yeah it was around then like 96 97 my friends

1:59:59laughed at me my first phone was in a haliburton briefcase and you opened the

2:00:05silver haliburton briefcase take the phone out and the phone was maybe 10 inches you

2:00:10know and and i had an antenna that screwed on the outside of the briefcase

2:00:15because you had this big possum tail yeah i had one on the roof of

2:00:19my car oh yeah in 1989 yeah you you wow back back then i couldn't

2:00:28imagine that kids would be watching movies on the phone right playing games watching movies

2:00:34and that would be most of their social life was communicating through that thing yeah

2:00:37remember there was a time when dudes said to each other yo he got a

2:00:41strong rap man his pimp hand is crazy he can get a bitch in a

2:00:45second you know and he can talk and now young men don't know what the

2:00:50fuck to say to a woman leaning against a wall at a club no they

2:00:53have dating apps now they're just swiping yeah crazy but what i was going to

2:00:58get at like how quickly the culture changed from let's just say 98 when most

2:01:04a lot of people had a phone at least half the people had a phone

2:01:07on them 2008 everybody had a phone 2018 you'd be crazy to not have a

2:01:13phone yeah 20 years like that okay now now hold your thought okay i remember

2:01:19a time when you and i were the only parents that didn't allow cell phones

2:01:28in the hands of our kids because i remember my son said uh dad you

2:01:34gotta let me have a phone you know and i'm like i'm not doing it

2:01:37i'm until you're a certain age i'd set it up and and i said does

2:01:41everyone in your class have a phone and he said no two of us don't

2:01:48and i realized you were the other parent yeah that was saying we're not fucking

2:01:53i gave her a phone that has two numbers on it it was there was

2:01:56a weird little cell phone that you get for kids where she could dial like

2:02:01my phone number or my wife's phone number it was like that's it those like

2:02:06it was like i forget what it was called it was like the frog or

2:02:08something like that some little cell phone just for kids phone for kids yeah yeah

2:02:12yeah but you didn't have to worry about the things that kids have to worry

2:02:15about now like i was watching this thing about roblox you know that game that

2:02:19kids like to play that they're getting like predators are on roblox and they're trying

2:02:25to pick up kids like child predators on so you have to worry about the

2:02:29games they play you have to worry about them getting dm'd by creeps you have

2:02:34to worry about so much more access than just a phone to call people yeah

2:02:40there was a time when my kid used to play games with a headset on

2:02:45and he would play with people you don't know just somebody in the world they

2:02:49would gather yeah and um i remember feeling like this can't be good right you

2:02:56know because these probably aren't all kids he's playing with a hundred percent yeah yeah

2:03:02well when i first started playing video games you'd have to chat by pulling down

2:03:07a window and you'd have to type in the things that you wanted to say

2:03:10yeah you couldn't talk to people yeah and then when people started talking to people

2:03:13in video games i'm like oh this is crazy but then the problem is whenever

2:03:18there's anything that kids are doing you're gonna have some creeps that are targeting kids

2:03:22and they find where the kids are hanging out what the kids are doing and

2:03:26then they try to get those kids to meet them somewhere that's what's scary about

2:03:30cell phones and the internet and all that shit is that it's not just a

2:03:35phone it's it's a a way that you can connect with people and there's always

2:03:40creeps that are trying to connect with kids yeah i was lucky as a kid

2:03:45because i talk about being a magician and i worked at a magic shop when

2:03:49i was 12 took cash because i couldn't actually have a job and i remember

2:03:53meeting older magicians i remember going to people's house to see a new guillotine trick

2:04:00and my mother my mother worked two jobs i was a latchkey kid i never

2:04:06had any problems and i never was warned about it you know but um i

2:04:10was a i could have been a target because yeah you got lucky yeah i

2:04:14really got lucky because i you know when i was writing the book i'm looking

2:04:18and i'm saying there was a guy i met who uh worked until he died

2:04:24for pen and teller and this dude i met him at a magic show and

2:04:29every year when he would come to cleveland i would go sit with him my

2:04:31mother never knew i had this 40 year old friend you know weird right yeah

2:04:36but he was cool and i got lucky yeah that's the thing about latchkey kids

2:04:41i mean the thing is though i was watching this um this you YouTube video

2:04:46where they were talking about kids of our age, you know, our generation, latchkey kids

2:04:52that grew up like that are so much more resilient because no problems were solved

2:04:59for you. You had to figure it out on your own.

2:05:01You went out on your own.

2:05:02You were outside with no cell phone communication, no way to call anybody when you

2:05:08were 10, 11, wandering around with your friends.

2:05:11It's like it was a different world.

2:05:13You had to figure life out in a way that like helicopter parenting and parents

2:05:18that are like tracking their kids, you know, like a lot of parents, like they're

2:05:22tracking their kids on their phone.

2:05:23You said you were at Debbie's house.

2:05:25You're not at Debbie's house.

2:05:26Where are you right now?

2:05:27Everyone is like looking out for their kids, maybe a little too much.

2:05:31It's like you want your children to be safe, but you also want them to

2:05:35have a little bit of freedom to figure out who the fuck they are.

2:05:38Yeah, I gosh, as a kid, when I would tell my mother I'm spending the

2:05:45night at Kenny's house, I was never at Kenny's house.

2:05:50You know, my my girl, when I was 14, had a mom who was a

2:05:56nurse that worked the 11 to 7 shift.

2:05:58So we kind of live together like a couple.

2:06:01You know, I would tell my mother I'm going one place.

2:06:04I'd go to Robin's house.

2:06:05I would stay at her house till morning when I went home to get ready

2:06:08for school. You know, I was like a grown ass man.

2:06:11That's why until one day her parents had the grandparents come to town and surprise

2:06:17her. And so it's the moms at work.

2:06:21There's a knock at the door.

2:06:23And she said, it's my grandmother.

2:06:24We had little peep holes.

2:06:26It's my grandmother, my grandfather.

2:06:28And I had to jump with my clothes off their balcony.

2:06:35That was my action adventure teenage period.

2:06:38Yeah, it's a different world.

2:06:40I don't know if it's better or worse, but I think it definitely made you

2:06:43more resilient. And that was this argument that they were making in this YouTube video,

2:06:47that that generation is the most emotionally resilient and that this generation coming up is

2:06:52like the least emotionally resilient.

2:06:54That's why they're always looking for things that are, you know, problems.

2:06:58They're always looking for things that bother them, things that cause them anxiety.

2:07:02They're always looking for things that, you know, they can't tolerate.

2:07:06Where's my bike helmet? You know, we used to have a car.

2:07:10It was a station wagon and the back seat you sit facing the opposite way.

2:07:17No seatbelts. That had to be dangerous.

2:07:19It's all dangerous. Those cars were dangerous.

2:07:21They could barely stop. Yeah.

2:07:23They had drum brakes. Yeah.

2:07:25You ever drive like an old, I have old cars, but I have what they

2:07:28call restomods where they take an old car, but they put like modern suspension, modern

2:07:33brakes, modern steering. It handles like a new car, but they have all the outside

2:07:38of an old car and, you know, and then the dashboard of an old car

2:07:41and all that stuff. That's what I like.

2:07:43If you drive a real, like if you try to drive a 1968 Camaro, you're

2:07:47like, what is this piece of shit?

2:07:49Yeah. Like they can't brake.

2:07:51You can't go around a corner.

2:07:52There's no traction. What was your first car?

2:07:55I had a 1973 Chevelle.

2:07:58I had a Cutlass. Oh, I had a Cutlass once.

2:08:02Yeah, I had a 70, a 70 Cutlass.

2:08:05Those are great cars. God, they knew how to make a beautiful car back then.

2:08:09You like muscle cars. Yeah.

2:08:10I love that. Well, when I was in high school, like those were the, so

2:08:15I was in high school in the 1980s.

2:08:16I went to, I was a freshman in 1981.

2:08:19I had four kids in the 1980s.

2:08:21Wow. That's crazy. I'm much older than you.

2:08:22In those days, those cars were the cars that we all like looked at.

2:08:29Like you couldn't believe when someone had it.

2:08:31I remember I have a 1970 Chevelle that I got to this day.

2:08:36I have it because when I was like 17, my friend picked me up in

2:08:42a 1970 Chevelle with his buddy and it was perfect.

2:08:46It was a perfect car.

2:08:47I couldn't believe this guy had it.

2:08:49I was like, how do you have this?

2:08:50And when you say perfect to non -car people like me, what does that mean?

2:08:55Oh, first of all, it was what you would call cherry, meaning there was no

2:08:59dents, no scratches, perfect paint.

2:09:01It was beautiful. The sound it made when he pulled up, I couldn't, I think

2:09:05I was 16 because I don't think I had a license yet.

2:09:07And I remember getting in the backseat of the car going, how does this guy

2:09:10have this car? This is crazy.

2:09:13It's a show. You know what a 1970 Chevelle looks like?

2:09:16Absolutely. With the white stripes, black with the white stripes.

2:09:18That was it. I have that exact car right now.

2:09:21I love it. Whenever I get in, I think about when I was 16.

2:09:24I think about all those years ago.

2:09:27When Burt Reynolds drove up, those pictures we just looked at, when he drove up,

2:09:31he had what was called a Trans Am.

2:09:33Yes! And it had a big eagle on the front.

2:09:35Yes! Smoking the Bandit car.

2:09:37I almost lost my mind.

2:09:38Oh my God. That was the Smoking the Bandit car.

2:09:41That was the car that he had in those movies with Sally Fields.

2:09:44$100 tip. Have you ever been to Jay Leno's spot?

2:09:50With the cars? Yeah. I did his show once.

2:09:53I brought my Corvette on.

2:09:55I have a 1965 Corvette.

2:09:56And I brought it to his show.

2:09:58It's a resto mod, too.

2:09:59And Jay drove it around.

2:10:00He's the only person that's ever driven it other than me.

2:10:02Wow. It's an honor. But you go to his place, it's like, he has warehouses.

2:10:09Not a warehouse. Where? There's me and Jay.

2:10:11And he never sells one.

2:10:13No. He swears to me he's never sold a car.

2:10:16So anything he's ever bought, he keeps.

2:10:17No, he keeps them. He keeps.

2:10:18And he recently told me.

2:10:20Why did someone turn it gold?

2:10:21I don't know. I'm afraid he's a clip.

2:10:23Oh. Thumbnail. Something on YouTube video.

2:10:25No. Go to the other one.

2:10:26The other picture with the real picture.

2:10:28I was just clicking around.

2:10:29But go to the real picture so you can see what it looks like.

2:10:31You know what he has now?

2:10:32That's kind of cool. He has two tanks.

2:10:35Two army tanks. That's us right there.

2:10:38That's my car. Look at that.

2:10:41See, but that. Look, you see that?

2:10:42Modern suspension. Modern wheels. Those are exhaust pipes on the side.

2:10:47Yeah. That car is so fun.

2:10:49Do those things get hot?

2:10:51Yeah. Yeah, you'll fuck your leg up.

2:10:53If you got shorts on and your leg touches it, you're in trouble.

2:10:56The outside part won't because, like, the outside is like.

2:10:59protect you from the actual exhaust pipes but underneath it is exhaust pipes but where

2:11:05jay's leg is if he backed up right there if it was hot he'd singe

2:11:09the back of his calves joe he has tanks yeah he has everything yes the

2:11:14king of jordan gave him a tank and this motherfucker was riding through sherman oaks

2:11:20he drives everything he has too that's the thing about jay yeah like it's kind

2:11:24of nuts it's a lot of rotation well he walked he crashed one of his

2:11:28motorcycles just a few years ago yeah fucked himself up he does a bit about

2:11:32that he's fucked himself up without a motorcycle oh that was the one time he

2:11:36was climbing up a hill yeah we we've done a lot of dates together we

2:11:40have the same agent right and he called us one day and he says how

2:11:43about you jay and craig kilbourne and we call it kings of late night and

2:11:48so we went out and did like five dates and it was a lot of

2:11:51fun and me and jay enjoyed it so we added 20 more dates to it

2:11:55and uh oh that had to be great fun he was a great comic in

2:12:00the 70s yeah people people don't know when i was in college we would go

2:12:04in the tv lounge and watch jay leno to this day i remember him saying

2:12:11i was a philosophy major and so i just got out of college and i

2:12:14opened up a little philosophy shop you know just to to explain what bullshit majors

2:12:20right were actually being peddled to well he was the edgy comic in the 1970s

2:12:25and when he would go on letterman's show he was like the edgy guy that

2:12:28would sit on the couch and be letterman would say what's your beef yeah and

2:12:31he would always be mad at something he was like people don't realize that you'd

2:12:35see him as but it's again that carrot the carrot for him was the tonight

2:12:39show that was more important to him than anything and once he got that tonight

2:12:43show everything else was like took a back seat did you do letterman as a

2:12:48stand -up no no that was my first that's a that's that's a classic that

2:12:53was a great place for comedy because letterman like he really loved comics and he

2:12:59really loved like solid stand -up i never liked doing stand -up on those talk

2:13:03shows that was it the five minutes yeah to me i did a different kind

2:13:08of comedy my comedy needs some time i need to cook you know i need

2:13:12time to open up ideas what's like and i didn't like censorship what i didn't

2:13:18like tv comedy it's not my i was a nightclub comic that's all i ever

2:13:22wanted to be i wanted to be a nightclub comic i like doing comedy for

2:13:26drunk people yeah but when i first saw you it all wasn't dirty it was

2:13:30some of it was tv stuff well it wasn't necessarily dirty but it was free

2:13:34it was like i was being free i was doing think whatever i wanted to

2:13:38talk about i didn't like the idea of being constrained by any sorts of standards

2:13:43and practices it's like i'm not interested i've been not interested in that i worked

2:13:49on my tonight show set to try to get on the tonight show with johnny

2:13:53and uh the guy would come see me a lot he would change my jokes

2:13:58that i hate oh i hate when they say yeah try try saying vacation yeah

2:14:03instead of gift shop and i'm like oh let me just do my thing but

2:14:08after a year of him trying to get my set right he says you're not

2:14:13a johnny comic oh you're not a johnny guy what does that even mean but

2:14:18then i got on on a monday night with joan because i guess i was

2:14:21a joan guy and then i got to sit with johnny just as a guest

2:14:25to promote coming to america so finally full circle from my basement that's amazing i

2:14:31watch a lot of his old clips like with don rickles and all these oh

2:14:36don rickles talking about snooki the brother in the band you know and he would

2:14:40do a a noise of a blow gun it's like snooki you're liking this stuff

2:14:45oh you know and you can't fuck with that now no there's so much it's

2:14:52funny how we've come forward into a new era but we've gone backwards in certain

2:14:57ways yeah yeah you can't joke about certain things anymore like i'm scared to death

2:15:02right now i'm gonna say something that i shouldn't say and i'm gonna be in

2:15:06no one can do shit to you now they can't do shit to you they

2:15:10can just be mad i guess yeah let them be mad just don't pay attention

2:15:12that's what i do i just don't pay attention really yeah i just don't read

2:15:16anything about me yeah stay away that's the best way are you a comic who

2:15:21when you're on stage it can be 200 people laughing but that one person who's

2:15:26not laughing and knows the fuck out of you you know you can't even enjoy

2:15:30the others you don't even look at that person no those those people have their

2:15:33own problems yeah and but by the way sometimes they're just not laughers because that

2:15:38person will sometimes come up to you and say love what you're doing love the

2:15:41new stuff some people just like to smile they don't want to laugh they just

2:15:45want to sit there and watch or they just want to take it in take

2:15:47in the performance doesn't mean they don't like it and then some people just are

2:15:51upset by everything you can't control that just control what you what i would the

2:15:57only thing that bothers me is if i'm off that's it if i'm off if

2:16:01something's right if i stumble on a word if i fuck something up that's the

2:16:04only thing that bothers me and the audience is like you can't control that why

2:16:07why be upset at things you can't control because who knows what their trip is

2:16:11who knows what they're carrying around with them as a famous star now do you

2:16:17ever bomb i have jokes that bomb for sure new ones yeah trot out a

2:16:22new one especially like uh we do this show called bottom of the barrel and

2:16:26bottom of the barrel at the mothership is there's like a whiskey barrel and you

2:16:30reach into the whiskey barrel and you pull out premises just ideas and you just

2:16:34run with it that's tonight actually and so you pull out a piece of paper

2:16:38and you know have a subject you know ice cream sundae whatever whatever the fuck

2:16:43it is that takes intestinal 40 oh a lot of those fucking go nowhere but

2:16:49some of them don't every now and then you get a great premise out of

2:16:53those and it's like a little premise factory but the audience knows it though so

2:16:57it's different than like when they go to see you and they paid money and

2:17:01they're expecting a polished show and you have a new joke and the new joke

2:17:05is just not right it's not ready something's missing you're not finding it and you're

2:17:11trying to work through it yeah it's always going to happen If it doesn't happen,

2:17:15you're not taking enough chances.

2:17:16Yeah. See, I'm not as chance -driven as you are.

2:17:22I'd be afraid to do that because my feelings get hurt too easy.

2:17:26Yeah, well, it's part of the process.

2:17:28Yeah, you're right. You're right.

2:17:29We should do the things we fear.

2:17:31You definitely have to if you want to write new shit.

2:17:35You're going to have to.

2:17:36There's that moment where you're like, do I trot this new one out?

2:17:40Fuck it. Let's go. And, you know, a lot of the new ones, the way

2:17:43they come out, for me at least, first, is just a frame.

2:17:48It doesn't have sides. It doesn't have windows.

2:17:50It doesn't have doors. It's just a frame.

2:17:52And I have to figure out how to make a house out of that frame.

2:17:55That's what I loved about going to the original room back in the day when

2:17:58we were young, watching Richard take out a pack of cigarettes, take a cigarette.

2:18:04And Mitzi had those smoke things that popped.

2:18:08It got smoke and everything.

2:18:10And Richard would have two minutes.

2:18:13And then he'd have five.

2:18:15Mm -hmm. It would just build.

2:18:16Yeah. And it was like when Grandma used to make a quilt.

2:18:19Yeah. And it gets bigger and bigger.

2:18:21Yeah. And you've got an hour.

2:18:22I used to love watching him develop it.

2:18:25I heard that Richard would go in on a Monday and have a joke that

2:18:30bombed. And then it would be murdering by Saturday.

2:18:33And then that's what he would do.

2:18:35He would just go and figure it out on stage.

2:18:37Damon used to do that a lot.

2:18:39Damon used to go and sit on stage and just sit with a premise.

2:18:43Yeah. Just sit with it.

2:18:45And he would trot it out for like 10 minutes and try to figure it

2:18:49out. And then finally he'd find something and everybody would be dying.

2:18:52He'd just find it. We got away from that earlier.

2:18:53But I totally got your point.

2:18:57Damon is one of the great ones.

2:19:00And I hope he continues to do stand -up and pop out to the clubs

2:19:03because he's one of the great ones that a lot of people don't realize.

2:19:06They don't realize how great he was when he did The Last Stand.

2:19:09That one HBO special that he did way back in the day is a phenomenal

2:19:14special. It's phenomenal. He was so good.

2:19:17But he wanted to be a movie star.

2:19:18You know? And like Richard, he had an ability to also be vulnerable and tell

2:19:25the truth about something that most of us wouldn't tell.

2:19:28Like he'd talk about having a club foot as a kid.

2:19:31Yeah. And he was special.

2:19:34And I'm glad he's back out there.

2:19:36Yeah. Well, I think he never really started.

2:19:38You know one of the other things that he did that is very unique?

2:19:41Damon brings a camera to all of his shows and he films all of his

2:19:46shows and he archives them.

2:19:49Every set he ever does.

2:19:50Really? Yep. And he goes over it.

2:19:52That's work. It's work. Because one of the things that he does, like I said,

2:19:55is like he'll take a premise and just try to find it on stage.

2:20:01Try to figure out what about it works.

2:20:03What about it pops? Like what is it?

2:20:06And, you know, I guess like doing that with a camera and then you can

2:20:10go home, sit and watch it on the computer and just go, what is in

2:20:14this motherfucker? There's something here.

2:20:16I got to find it.

2:20:17And just look at it from every angle.

2:20:19Look at it over here.

2:20:20Look at it over there.

2:20:21Try to do it backwards.

2:20:23Try to figure out what the fuck makes it work.

2:20:25Yeah. And he would just, he had no fear of silence.

2:20:29See, that's the sentence right there.

2:20:32When it's quiet in the comedy club, I lose my mind.

2:20:37Chris Rock does that too.

2:20:39Chris Rock did a lot of that at the comedy store.

2:20:41He would come in and just, he would have material that he was working on.

2:20:44Like one time I remember, I brought him up on stage and everyone's going crazy.

2:20:49Chris Rock's here. They're cheering, cheering, cheering.

2:20:51And he goes, relax, relax.

2:20:53It ain't going to be that funny.

2:20:55Just let people know I'm working on some new shit.

2:20:58This ain't going to be that funny.

2:20:59Yeah. But with confidence. Like everybody already knew he's funny.

2:21:05They already saw Bigger and Blacker.

2:21:06They already saw his specials.

2:21:08It was Bring the Pain.

2:21:09Everybody already knew. The one where he shot with three different outfits in three different

2:21:14places. I hated that one.

2:21:15You didn't like that one?

2:21:16No. Not that I didn't like the material.

2:21:18I didn't like the idea of swapping outfits.

2:21:22The problem with that is you realize he's saying the same thing in all these

2:21:26different places. It takes away from the magic of a performer.

2:21:31I want to see you and I don't want anything to distract me from these.

2:21:35I don't want to say, oh, he just performs this the same way everywhere.

2:21:40I want you to just be saying it.

2:21:42The magic, like the trick is you are in the moment with whatever you're talking

2:21:47about. If you're changing outfits and all of a sudden you're in Johannesburg and now

2:21:51you're in Cleveland, like, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, don't do that to me.

2:21:55Why you got a leather jacket on in the beginning and in the punchline you

2:21:58got a fucking silk shirt?

2:22:00Uh -uh, don't do that.

2:22:01See, I saw it as a guy creatively trying to find new horizons and do

2:22:06different things. Some horizons suck.

2:22:11It's not that the jokes were great.

2:22:13It's like he's a great comic.

2:22:14It's not that. It's like I just didn't like the idea of changing outfits.

2:22:18If I was friends with him back then, I would say, don't, I don't like

2:22:20it at all. And I would explain.

2:22:22The problem is you're taking people out of the premise and then there's a new

2:22:26additional thing that they have to think of.

2:22:28Oh, this is a different set.

2:22:29Oh, he's wearing different clothes.

2:22:29It's a new thing to distract you from the most, the primary thing.

2:22:33The primary thing is what are you talking about?

2:22:36Like, what is this thing you're talking about?

2:22:37Let me get inside your head while you explain this thing that's so hilarious.

2:22:42But if you're doing that and changing outfits and changing stages, like, I know you

2:22:46perform in different places. I know you wear different clothes.

2:22:49Don't show me right now.

2:22:50In retrospect, I wonder how he looks at that special.

2:22:54Yeah, I don't know. I mean, he never did it again.

2:22:57Yeah. Well, you don't want to do it again.

2:23:00Right. I mean, he did it once.

2:23:02He tried it. Different people like to do different things and try them.

2:23:04I just didn't like that for that reason.

2:23:06I felt like it was an added element that took me away from the premise

2:23:10itself. And, by the way, something that's come out of this conversation in my head

2:23:15is the guys who are the best seem to go deeper and work the hardest.

2:23:20I mean, when you talk about archiving your practice sets.

2:23:24Yeah, all of them. Damon has all of them.

2:23:26And he told me this years ago.

2:23:28And he told me this years ago.

2:23:28So. Because I saw him at the improv, he was in the lab.

2:23:32We were in the big room and he was in the lab.

2:23:34This was not that long ago, when I say years ago, like 10, 9 years

2:23:38ago, something like that. And I go, you record all of them?

2:23:42He's like, every set, since like 1990 -something.

2:23:45He goes, I record them all, I got this camera, I take them all and

2:23:49I archive them, I put them on my computer.

2:23:51I'm like, whoa. It made me think, fuck, I'm lazy.

2:23:55Yeah, that's exactly what I'm thinking.

2:23:56And I'm also thinking, what an amazing documentary.

2:24:01If we could go through the history of Damon's personal archives, that would be a

2:24:07great, I think there's a special there.

2:24:10Probably, yeah, probably. But I mean, I think that's just part of his creative process.

2:24:15And again, I just think people don't realize, especially in the 90s, the early 90s,

2:24:21what a monster he was on stage.

2:24:23He was a monster. He was one of the first guys that was like a

2:24:27really famous guy that I saw at the store.

2:24:29I came to the store in 94, and he was one of the first guys

2:24:33who was like, oh, shit, Damon Wayans is here.

2:24:35Like, it was weird. It was like weird when people would show up, like you'd

2:24:38seen him in movies and shit, and all of a sudden they're there in real

2:24:41life. You know, I was just coming from New York.

2:24:43I didn't know anybody, and I was like, this is so strange.

2:24:45I can't believe I'm around these people.

2:24:47So you went from Boston to New York.

2:24:49Boston to New York. Catch a Rising Star.

2:24:51Where did you work out in New York in those days?

2:24:53Well, I did the Boston Comedy Club, you know, the little place that Barry Katz

2:24:58had. I did The Cellar.

2:25:01That's Jay Moore's manager, right?

2:25:03Yes. Barry Katz. I did Catch a Rising Star back when that was there.

2:25:07I did, what was there?

2:25:10Comic Strip? Yeah, I did The Strip, yeah.

2:25:13I did the clubs in town.

2:25:15I did Dangerfields a lot.

2:25:16But honestly, when I lived in New York, I really liked doing the road more

2:25:20because when I did the road, I could make money.

2:25:23So, like, I came up in Boston, and in Boston, you made a lot of

2:25:27your money not in the clubs in town, but you made a lot of your

2:25:31money in, like, the bar shows, you know, outside of town in the suburbs.

2:25:35And the thing about that is, like, you could headline, and so you could do

2:25:3845 minutes or an hour, and that allowed me to grow and, like, to really

2:25:44become a headliner. Whereas, like, I found, like, a lot of the New York comics

2:25:49that I would go on the road with when I would work with them, even

2:25:52when I was a middle act and they were a headliner, they had, like, these

2:25:5610 - and 15 -minute sets that they'd stitch together to make an hour.

2:26:01Whereas the guys that I work with in Boston, like, the big headliners in Boston,

2:26:05they had a real hour.

2:26:07Like, that fucking – that was an hour of thunder.

2:26:09You know, they had a beginning, a middle, and an end, and it was, like,

2:26:13tight. It was tight. And I felt like I could do sets in New York,

2:26:19but I don't think it's really helping my career.

2:26:21There's no one there to see me.

2:26:24I felt like I'm going to make money.

2:26:26Like, I could do a set in New York, and I'd make 25 bucks, or

2:26:29I could do a set in Connecticut and make $250.

2:26:32I was like, I'll go to Connecticut.

2:26:34Plus, like, the people are more fun.

2:26:36They're more loose. They're a bunch of fucking crazy drunks.

2:26:39I love doing Long Island.

2:26:41I love doing New Jersey.

2:26:43I like doing the road more.

2:26:45That's what I liked. I think I'm a product of my childhood environment.

2:26:51I discovered stand -up because I was a drummer, had a band, I was a

2:26:55magician, had doves, boxes and shit, and then my house burned down.

2:26:59So I lost – Oh, wow.

2:27:01Yeah, I lost everything. But I had gone to an Al Green concert, and Al

2:27:05Green had a comic come out.

2:27:07House lights are on. People are still making their way to their seats, and this

2:27:13guy slowly gets them. And then the lights go down, and by the time he

2:27:18gets to 30 minutes, he's killing.

2:27:20And all he had was a glass of juice, something on the stool.

2:27:25And this is a kid who just lost his house and his cymbals and his

2:27:27tom -toms and his doves and his boxes.

2:27:29And I'm like, that's me.

2:27:32Johnny was a stand -up.

2:27:33So I'm still dreaming. And to this day, even when I start making a lot

2:27:41of money, after seeing that guy, I loved opening for people.

2:27:44I went on the road with everybody from Lou Rawls to Patti LaBelle.

2:27:49Still to this day, I'm comfortable doing 30 minutes because that's what I did.

2:27:53But I had money. Like, I would come to the comedy store, and I would

2:27:58have a really nice car because I'd spend most of my time on the road

2:28:02with Patrice Russian and Johnny Guitar Watson.

2:28:06Oh, wow. That's a different world.

2:28:08Opening for Musicians is a different kind of comedy because, like, they're not there to

2:28:12see you. And that's what I found to be the challenge.

2:28:15It's like, I'm going to make you motherfuckers who don't know me and are mad.

2:28:19Because a lot of people would look at you like, that ain't one of the

2:28:23temptations. Right, right, right, right.

2:28:25I got to get them.

2:28:26And I like that challenge.

2:28:28It is a real challenge because there's a lot of people like, boo, bring on

2:28:33Metallica. Yeah. Yeah, they don't want to see you.

2:28:37They want to see the music act.

2:28:39I opened for Blood, Sweat, and Tears once.

2:28:41Wow. And they really did not want to see me.

2:28:44You think the Johnny Guitar Watson audience didn't want to see me?

2:28:47Them motherfuckers from Blood, Sweat, and Tears not fucking with me.

2:28:51Well, it's definitely running with weights on, though.

2:28:54If you can make those people laugh, boy, you take those weights off and go

2:28:57to a comedy club where they're there to see you.

2:28:59Yeah. It's like, oh. Just there to see comedy made it easier.

2:29:03Yeah, I just don't want to perform for people that aren't there to see comedy.

2:29:07But there's a value in it, I think.

2:29:10But that's when you're young.

2:29:11Yeah. And I had a nice condo because I had just come off the road

2:29:17with Aretha. Yeah. I did a few of those.

2:29:20I opened up for Bon Jovi once.

2:29:22I opened up for Bon Jovi for VH1.

2:29:25They had a theater in the round show, like a performance in the round.

2:29:28My job was to open up for Bon Jovi and then get the pretty girls

2:29:32and move them to the front so that they could be on camera.

2:29:35That's what they told me to do.

2:29:36Yeah. So I did some stand -up, and then I had to get people, like,

2:29:40come up here, come closer.

2:29:42Yeah. Yeah. I remember those times being on the road, and if there were six

2:29:47girls in the green room and you're opening for the Temptations, number six is yours.

2:29:54The other five go first to the Timps.

2:29:57Yeah. That's a different world, opening for musicians.

2:30:01That's a hard world. And I know a lot of people made a living just

2:30:04traveling with bands, and that's all they did.

2:30:07They would just open up for bands.

2:30:09Yeah, I would open up for R &B acts.

2:30:12And as a matter of fact, I got discovered by a jazz singer, Nancy Wilson,

2:30:16and I used to love jazz audiences because that was the perfect type of music

2:30:20for a comic. Because they were mellow.

2:30:24Jazz audience don't scream, get the fuck off.

2:30:26Right, right, right. Alonzo Bowden, he does jazz tours still.

2:30:32He'll do a jazz cruise ship, and he'll do stand -up with the jazz audiences.

2:30:40Hey, every year. But he loves jazz.

2:30:43I love jazz, too, and I remember going to see the Playboy Jazz Festival, and

2:30:49Bill Cosby was the host at the Hollywood Bowl.

2:30:52I host that every year now.

2:30:54I still love jazz, and that's the coolest two days of my summer.

2:30:58What is it about jazz?

2:31:00What do you love about it?

2:31:01Oh, about the actual—by the way, the coolest experience was sitting on the beach in

2:31:10Malibu with Miles Davis. After he came on the show once, he says, Why don't

2:31:14you come over to the house, hang out?

2:31:16And he was a painter, and he was sitting with his trumpet.

2:31:20It was a red trumpet.

2:31:21I had never seen a red trumpet, like a crimson trumpet.

2:31:24And it was sitting beside him, and he wouldn't use an easel.

2:31:28He had the canvas on a table, and he'd roll a new piece out, and

2:31:32he would paint. He said, You ever thought about painting?

2:31:36No, I'm not a good artist.

2:31:38But being a jazz fan, that was the coolest moment ever.

2:31:43And what do I like about it?

2:31:47I almost equate my comedy to jazz, because I love to say, I'm going in

2:31:52D, guys, and just play, you know, as a stand -up.

2:31:57You know, I used to love to equate how I work to jazz.

2:32:01But it takes a very specific type of person to be, like, a jazz fan

2:32:06that really enjoys listening to jazz.

2:32:08I'm also a musician, and I know that some of the most respected musicians in

2:32:13my mind are jazz musicians.

2:32:16You know, the intricacy. Spending time with—I talk about this in the book—spending time with

2:32:22Quincy Jones, who was from the world of jazz and a former trumpet player and

2:32:28all that stuff. And then he ends up, the year I meet him, he plays

2:32:32for me these tracks, and I don't know what I'm about to listen to.

2:32:36And he says, You hear this?

2:32:37He takes—he slides all the slides down.

2:32:40He says, Listen to this.

2:32:41And he plays this thing.

2:32:42Tink, tink, tink, tink, tink, tink.

2:32:44I'm like, What is that?

2:32:45He says, You ever heard of Sheila E, man?

2:32:48And I said, Yeah, the Escovito family.

2:32:51And I know the family.

2:32:52And he says, She put different amounts of water in little pop bottles.

2:32:56And that's her tinging on those bottles.

2:32:59Then he starts bringing up the pots.

2:33:02And you hear the bass and the drums.

2:33:04And you realize you're listening to stuff from off the wall.

2:33:10And it's just this incredible moment when I realize, Yo, he can bring Michael back

2:33:16in a crazy way. I'm listening to, you know, You got me working, working day

2:33:22and night. You know, and he'd just take out everything and just have Michael's voice.

2:33:25And I'd never been in a recording studio.

2:33:27And he's at the board, 18 -channel track studio.

2:33:33And then he says, You're from Ohio, right?

2:33:35And he had seen me do stand -up at the Roxy and invited me to

2:33:38his studio. And he says, You're from Ohio, right?

2:33:40And I said, Yeah. And so he says, Let me play you this, man.

2:33:42And you have to take big, giant reels and put them on this machine.

2:33:46And he put the reels on.

2:33:48And the song starts. And he says, This is a scratch track.

2:33:50And I'm like, What's that?

2:33:51He says, That's a demo.

2:33:52And he says, They want me to find a singer for this.

2:33:55And he plays me James Ingram, Find 100 Ways, and James Ingram Just Once.

2:34:03Brilliant, beautiful songs. And I'm like, What's wrong with that guy?

2:34:05He says, Yeah, I'm thinking about it, man.

2:34:06He's pretty good. He's pretty good.

2:34:07And it ends up being the James Ingram from Ohio.

2:34:11And that was an incredible day.

2:34:13But I tell that story to say, This great jazz musician had this talent that

2:34:21other producers didn't have because of his music genius.

2:34:25And he was able to bring us the Off the Wall album and put Michael

2:34:30back in the mix. Yeah, layers and layers to the sound.

2:34:34Yeah. That's the thing, when you hear a song, you don't realize how much shit

2:34:37is going on in the background.

2:34:39Sheila E. with Pop Bottles.

2:34:41Yeah, crazy. I loved that day.

2:34:44That's a favorite time. Because Michael had been missing.

2:34:48And I had bought the Moving Violation album.

2:34:51So I knew he needed Quincy.

2:34:53Wow. Yeah, there's some geniuses of music, man.

2:34:57I had Rick Rubin on the podcast.

2:35:00And he's explaining, like, his creative process and just like, That guy's out there.

2:35:05Yeah. Yeah. I had to go his way when I started the talk show that

2:35:09I took over for Joan Rivers.

2:35:11When I first had the idea that I want to try to find my own

2:35:16friends of the show. I want to find my show.

2:35:19And I put on LL Cool J doing a song called I'm Bad.

2:35:26And that night I found what I was going to do, win or lose.

2:35:31Next, I booked The Freaks Come Out at Night, Houdini.

2:35:35Oh, I remember that. And that was, so I found my home.

2:35:38When you did the Joan Rivers thing, did you think that that was going to

2:35:41lead to you doing your own show?

2:35:42Absolutely. You did. I was like, I am.

2:35:45Because Joan leaves, goes through all the stuff she's going through.

2:35:49And they give me this show for 11 weeks.

2:35:53And it starts to get numbers.

2:35:56And I know. that she left because of a lack of numbers.

2:36:01And I'm like, oh, this shit is mine.

2:36:03So when I come back from doing Coming to America, I'm going to come back

2:36:06to Fox and do this show.

2:36:09And one day I walk into the cafeteria and I realized they had hired Conan

2:36:15O 'Brien to create a show.

2:36:18And I think the show was called The Wilton North Report or something like that.

2:36:23But I realized I wasn't in their future.

2:36:28So Paramount, they were popping over to say hi, sending me flowers.

2:36:34And when I finished Coming to America, actually halfway through, they were like, when you

2:36:39finish, you can do that talk show here in first -run syndication.

2:36:43And they had to explain that to me.

2:36:45And at the same time, I was being pitched by the King Brothers who created

2:36:49Oprah. So I kind of understood that first -run syndication could work, except Oprah had

2:36:54ABC Networks, behind her, which is good.

2:36:56I had some CBS affiliates.

2:36:58And it all worked out.

2:37:02Right now, with the exception of Byron Allen, I don't think anybody gets rich in

2:37:08first -run syndication. Well, he's a very unusual case, you know?

2:37:12Yeah, yeah. I mean, he's figured out a cheat code.

2:37:15Like, Byron Allen. You know, I heard that...

2:37:17And when they cheat him, he sues them and wins.

2:37:20I think Byron Allen's show, Comics Unleashed, is going to replace Colbert.

2:37:25Absolutely. That was just announced this week.

2:37:28Late show will be replaced by Byron Allen's Comics Unleashed.

2:37:30That's crazy. That's how... Isn't that weird?

2:37:34Like, late shows just don't work anymore.

2:37:37They just don't have the same thing anymore.

2:37:40Like, that standard model show.

2:37:43Yeah. Where people... Like, I don't think they do well anymore.

2:37:46And they're expensive, Joe. Oh, I can imagine.

2:37:48They were saying that Colbert's show was costing them like $50 million a year to

2:37:52keep it on the air.

2:37:54That's... I don't understand it.

2:37:55Like, how? How's it costing you so much money?

2:37:58Oh, gosh. Well... But you know what I'm saying?

2:38:00Like, you have ads. When there were three channels, though, and only one had a

2:38:03talk show, everybody was there.

2:38:05Of course. And it made sense.

2:38:07Yeah. It made dollars and cents.

2:38:09There's also the problem in that, when you compare it to things that are on

2:38:14the internet, is that you have to stop conversations every seven minutes for a commercial.

2:38:18That's an issue. It's an issue with depth.

2:38:21You don't get to go...

2:38:22Like, you and I have been talking for two hours and 40 minutes.

2:38:25Wow. Yeah. So, like, when you're doing this kind of thing, you just flow.

2:38:30Everything flows. You just have a conversation.

2:38:32You just have a good time.

2:38:34It's so different when you're stuck in this format where you only have an hour.

2:38:40Everything is like, you got to cut to the commercial in five, four.

2:38:42They're like, we'll be right back.

2:38:44Like, we'll be right back.

2:38:45Where are you going? Stay here.

2:38:47Like, no, you have to sell Tide.

2:38:49You know? It's like, that format is so limited.

2:38:52It's so restrictive that people knowing that there's other things out there now where you

2:38:59could just go and watch it anytime you want.

2:39:01You don't have to tune in at 11 p .m.

2:39:03Yeah, we used to have must -see TV.

2:39:05Yeah. And we would all gather as a nation to watch the finale of Cheers.

2:39:09Yep. And now we don't do anything together.

2:39:11Nope. As a nation. Except sports.

2:39:13Except, like, Super Bowl. There's only sports.

2:39:15Live boxing events, UFC, that kind of shit, where it's live.

2:39:19That is the only thing that people all watch together.

2:39:22Yeah. That's it. Did you watch Chris Rock live?

2:39:27Selective Outrage? I didn't watch his live special.

2:39:29I watched it after, but I didn't watch it when it was live.

2:39:32So you knew it was available.

2:39:33I was busy. When we grew up, shit wasn't available the second time.

2:39:38But I did a live special on Netflix for that very reason, just because I

2:39:41thought it was scary. Just because my last one I did live.

2:39:44And I only did it live because the first time they asked me, I said,

2:39:47no, fuck that. And then I was like, why are you being such a pussy?

2:39:50And I remember driving home.

2:39:52I had a conversation with my manager and I called her right back.

2:39:54And I go, let me decide tomorrow.

2:39:56I go, I'm thinking about this.

2:39:58Hold on. Because I was driving home feeling like I was a pussy for not

2:40:01wanting to do it live.

2:40:02And now in retrospect, what did you get out of agreeing to do it live?

2:40:06Fear. You wanted to feel that.

2:40:10Yeah. I wanted to be nervous.

2:40:12I was legitimately nervous. I never get nervous for shows anymore.

2:40:15I get excited. When you have, when you're killing a wild, I heard you talk

2:40:19about killing a wild hog.

2:40:21When you go hunting like that, it's the same kind of, It's a very different

2:40:25kind of fear. That's a primal thing.

2:40:27That's very different. That's a very different thing.

2:40:29That's like, that's a life or death.

2:40:32You're in, that's a weird, that's a weird primal connection with nature where you're going

2:40:38to eat this thing. You're sneaking up on this thing that has these survival instincts

2:40:42and sense of smell and ears pop up.

2:40:45Yeah. And you have, you know, you don't want to fuck it up either.

2:40:47You have one moment to take a shot.

2:40:50That's even more intense, honestly.

2:40:52Like, elk hunting with a bow and arrow is even more intense than doing a

2:40:55live comedy special, if you can believe it.

2:40:58Wow. Yeah. Yeah. I believe it.

2:41:01I like things that scare me.

2:41:03I like things that are scary to do because I think it's good for you.

2:41:07Except cocaine. Yeah. I don't want to ruin my life.

2:41:11That's the problem. I just, like I said, I don't want to hear any success

2:41:14stories from cocaine. No. You know, nobody's like, nobody's got like a meth story.

2:41:19Yeah. It's like, man, I started doing meth and I started seeing the world for

2:41:22what it really is. Yeah.

2:41:24Started being more at peace.

2:41:25I was living in the moment.

2:41:27You don't hear any of that.

2:41:28Nobody says, right before I invented the hard drive, I did coke for three days.

2:41:32Right. No. No. I'm not interested in anything that's going to ruin my life, but

2:41:37I'm interested in things that are going to help me grow and help me expand

2:41:43my capacity to do things that are scary.

2:41:46Would you do stand -up live again?

2:41:48100%. Okay. Yeah, I'm thinking about doing my next one live again, too.

2:41:52I liked it. Did you make any mistakes that...

2:41:55No. I didn't make any mistakes, but I prepared more than I ever prepared before.

2:41:59One of the things I did, I listened to my recordings every night and I

2:42:03wrote out my act over and over and over and over again.

2:42:06I wrote it out. I wrote it out both on paper, like hand to paper,

2:42:11and I wrote it out...

2:42:12With keys, like typing it on a laptop, I did it over and over again.

2:42:16I listened to recordings, I watched recordings, I had way more preparation than I had

2:42:21ever done before for any other show.

2:42:22The night that you did it, did you change anything or do anything new?

2:42:25No, no, but I was free.

2:42:28I felt very loose. Once the show started, I felt like a regular show.

2:42:32I didn't, because I was prepared.

2:42:34But it's just like a fight.

2:42:35Like if you go into a fight and you're like, oh, I should have done

2:42:38more road work, oh, I should have sparred more, oh, I should have hit the

2:42:40pads more. You know, that's not a good place to be, to hope that you

2:42:44could pull it off. You have to be 100 % prepared.

2:42:47And that's the thing about doing a live show as opposed to, usually when I

2:42:52would film a special, I would have four shows.

2:42:54So I'd film all four of them and I'd be like, ah, fine, one of

2:42:59them is going to be great.

2:42:59I'll just use that one.

2:43:01But when it's just one and the whole world, like millions of people are watching

2:43:05simultaneously, it's very scary. It makes you prepare.

2:43:09Yeah, it makes you prepare.

2:43:11It makes you prepare. And it also, it's like it's fucking fun to do something

2:43:15that scares the shit out of you.

2:43:16Like, let's go. Where did you shoot it?

2:43:19Let's go. San Antonio. Okay.

2:43:22Yeah. That's cool. Yeah. Yeah, I've only done one Netflix special.

2:43:26I barely leave Texas these days.

2:43:28Really? I fucking love it here.

2:43:30I love it. I love it.

2:43:32Yeah, it was amazing when you made the move, man, because that's what I asked

2:43:36you when we first started talking.

2:43:37It's like, were you thinking about this in L .A.

2:43:40but way back, like 20 years ago?

2:43:42I was thinking 20 years ago about getting out.

2:43:45I moved to Colorado for a little while in 2009.

2:43:51For legal weed? No, no, no, no.

2:43:53I just wanted to get out.

2:43:55I just wanted to try.

2:43:57But I went too crazy.

2:43:58I got a house in the mountains that was 8 ,500 feet above sea level.

2:44:02It was like, it was too much.

2:44:04But when I came back to L .A., I always had this thing like, eventually

2:44:10I got to get out of here.

2:44:11First of all, I always thought L .A.

2:44:13is 100 % going to have a massive earthquake one day.

2:44:17Yeah. Like a massive earthquake where everything fucks up and falls apart.

2:44:21You lived through the Northridge earthquake, right?

2:44:23I didn't. Oh. I came to California right after it happened.

2:44:26Okay. And when I got there, like parts of like one of the freeways was

2:44:29collapsed on the other one.

2:44:31I was like, this is nuts.

2:44:32The freeways fall down here.

2:44:34This is crazy. So I feel like I've always been thinking that there's going to

2:44:38come a time where that place just breaks off and sinks into the ocean.

2:44:42And it's just not well run.

2:44:45Like the whole thing is like just waiting for one little catastrophe.

2:44:49There's very little coordination, very little.

2:44:53People don't. They don't. There's not like a sense of community in the greater Los

2:44:58Angeles area. Like you get in a smaller place like Austin.

2:45:02Yeah. Austin like feels like a small town that has everything you want.

2:45:06Whereas L .A. just feels like a poorly run, bureaucracy driven, chaotic shill game.

2:45:15It's like just a shell game of bullshit and money and people just grifting and

2:45:23fucking the homeless situation is nuts.

2:45:27Like everything's nuts in L .A.

2:45:29It's just beyond fixing, I think.

2:45:31Here in Austin, a lot of homeless?

2:45:33Not nearly as many. I mean, it's a very small problem.

2:45:36You're always going to have homeless people because you're always going to have mental illness.

2:45:39You're always going to have drug addiction.

2:45:40And you're always going to have some people that have problems.

2:45:42But in comparison, like Skid Row is 50 blocks.

2:45:47Yeah. 50 blocks. Five zero blocks of homeless people just outside, just camped out.

2:45:55I left a Laker game recently and went through that area.

2:45:59It's nuts. Broke my heart, man.

2:46:01It broke my heart in 2005.

2:46:04I was filming Fear Factor downtown in like 2005.

2:46:08Shout out to David Hurwitz.

2:46:10You know Dave. Yeah. Shout out to Dave.

2:46:12He was my intern. I set him up for you.

2:46:15I taught him so he could come and get worms for you.

2:46:17That's crazy. Yeah. We were filming downtown and I went for a, I was driving

2:46:23home and I took a wrong turn and all of a sudden I was in

2:46:25Skid Row. I was like, this is crazy.

2:46:27And this was back then.

2:46:28And no one was talking about it back then.

2:46:30And I was like, there's so many homeless people.

2:46:32It's like a zombie movie.

2:46:33I remember I came to the set the next day.

2:46:35I was like, you guys ever go, go this way and take a left.

2:46:38It's fucking nuts. There's so many homeless people.

2:46:41Like, and they, they figured out a way to keep them there.

2:46:44They just pushed people there.

2:46:46Like they started doing it decades ago where they would take all the problem people

2:46:51out of Los Angeles and Beverly Hills and they would just bring them to downtown

2:46:54and go, you got to stay here.

2:46:55And that's what created Skid Row.

2:46:57So when we were kids, I used to hear about mental institutions.

2:47:01We don't have that anymore.

2:47:03Oh, they shut them down during the Reagan administration.

2:47:05That was one of the giant errors of society when they shut down all the

2:47:10mental health institutions and they just let all these people just exist in the street

2:47:14with schizophrenia and just let them do drugs.

2:47:17And then in some places, give them drugs and give them needles and encourage them

2:47:21to come there and give them money so that they could stay on the street.

2:47:25Austin loves you. But you ever think about back in the day, not leaving California

2:47:30and running for governor? Fuck that.

2:47:32I don't want to be a politician.

2:47:33Why would I want that job?

2:47:34You want to help? It's a terrible job.

2:47:35You want the problem you see?

2:47:36You want to help. Yeah.

2:47:38You ain't helping nothing, man.

2:47:39You're going to get killed.

2:47:40If I, my help would be expose all the fraud and lock everybody up and

2:47:45then they wind up killing me.

2:47:46Then you'd lose the big money from the rich.

2:47:48They're not going to give it to me anyway.

2:47:50It's like, I'm not the guy.

2:47:52I'm not, I wouldn't be good at it.

2:47:53I wouldn't be good at the job.

2:47:54I'd be a good advisor.

2:47:55I'd tell people what the people want, but no one's going to listen.

2:47:58I think politics, we're talking about with money being involved in it.

2:48:01It's almost inexorably unfixable. It's almost impossible to untangle that fucking beehive of chaos.

2:48:12There's just so much dirty money involved.

2:48:14And if I'm a politician, I'm not going to stop taking this money.

2:48:18I'm not going to be first.

2:48:19If we all going to do it, I'm not going to be first.

2:48:21Exactly. Look at all these congressmen that make, you know, $170 ,000 a year and

2:48:26they're worth eight. million. How the fuck did that happen?

2:48:28What did you do? And how did you, how do you have time to invest?

2:48:32Aren't you busy being a congressperson?

2:48:34How the fuck do you have all that money?

2:48:36You got all that money because you're a grifter.

2:48:38They're all grifting and they're all just like doing it sneaky.

2:48:41It's red and blue. If you look at, we pulled up the numbers of people,

2:48:46whether it's a Democrat or Republican, how many of them are insider trading?

2:48:49It's across the board. They all have just unexplainable amounts of money.

2:48:56Yeah. It's a dirty fucking business.

2:48:58It's not like one of the parties loves money more than the other.

2:49:01No, they're all. No, I see.

2:49:03I get in trouble for that because usually my humor is written around not liking

2:49:08any of them. Yeah. And people want me to take a side.

2:49:12Yeah, that's a problem. I had a joke in my Netflix special about, you know,

2:49:17the Democrat versus the Republican that was running at that time.

2:49:20And it was like, that's like asking me who my favorite Menendez brother is.

2:49:26Motherfuckers did not. That's a great joke.

2:49:30Kind of like Lyle. He made it in prison with a toupee.

2:49:35He's special. Weren't they trying to get them out recently?

2:49:38Oh, yeah. Bro, that documentary on them was nuts.

2:49:41The docudrama series where they recreated it?

2:49:44Yeah. Oh, my God. I love documentaries.

2:49:48Well, that was a docudrama.

2:49:49Wow. Like they recreated it.

2:49:51Actors. Yeah. Actors. So you don't know how much of it is true, but boy,

2:49:54did they come off like fucking complete psychos.

2:49:56I remember for the O .J.

2:49:58Simpson scripted doc, they wanted me to come read for O .J.

2:50:04What? And I'm like, yo, man.

2:50:06How the fuck are you going to be O .J.?

2:50:08That's crazy. Yeah, you had Judge Edo barking because I'm just too recognizable as me.

2:50:12Exactly. That wouldn't work at all.

2:50:13That's crazy. I think they chose Cuba Gooding Jr.?

2:50:16That's right. That's right. He actually did a great job in that.

2:50:20But what a... That story was nuts.

2:50:23He was the first famous...

2:50:25There it is. Yes. Wow.

2:50:27And that's Kim's dad. Wow.

2:50:31That's Mr. Kardashian's second from the...

2:50:32John Travolta's in there, too.

2:50:34I forgot Travolta's in there.

2:50:36Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Those are fucking so weird.

2:50:39That's the dream team, though.

2:50:40Famous people pretending to be...

2:50:43Other famous people. Yeah. So odd.

2:50:45I do a story in my book about O .J.

2:50:48coming to Stage 29 at Paramount to whip my ass one time.

2:50:52Did he really? He was angry.

2:50:55And... Did you say a joke on the show or something?

2:50:58Well, you know what? I booked...

2:51:01Is when Naked Gun was out.

2:51:03And I booked Leslie Nielsen.

2:51:06And we got a call from O .J.'s people because he wanted to come on,

2:51:09obviously. He was in that movie.

2:51:11But the second one, it had legs, so I booked Priscilla Presley, who was a

2:51:16great guest and a lot of history.

2:51:19And after that, I get a call from the gate.

2:51:23Is there O .J. Simpson here at the gate?

2:51:25He wants to talk to you.

2:51:26And he didn't park. He didn't want a space.

2:51:29He parked outside the elephant door of Stage 29 and wanted me to come out.

2:51:34Uh -oh. Yeah. And by the way, this is at a time when we didn't

2:51:37know he cut a motherfucker's head off.

2:51:39Also, at a time, we didn't know about CTE.

2:51:42Oh, yeah, yeah. Which is probably a lot of what O .J.

2:51:47was going through, a lot of that violent behavior.

2:51:49Yeah. There's probably a lot of CTE.

2:51:52Yeah, man. I mean, when you think about it, those days in San Francisco when

2:51:57he couldn't quite cut the way he used to, he was getting hit.

2:51:59He was taking head -on shots.

2:52:01Oh, yeah. And NFL back then was nuts.

2:52:04Yeah. I feel bad for him and Junior Seau and some of those guys.

2:52:07Junior Seau was trying to scream to us what was going on.

2:52:10Right. You know, he committed suicide, left a note, left his, made sure he didn't

2:52:14damage his brain with the bullet.

2:52:16Right. So they could check it out.

2:52:18But O .J. stopped by and we had a talk.

2:52:21So he was mad that you didn't have him on the show?

2:52:23Yeah, he was a little mad.

2:52:26But was it your call?

2:52:27Oh, yeah. I mean, but by the way, it was my call to just do

2:52:34things that would get numbers.

2:52:36Right. Well, the Leslie Nielsen one, I liked him because I saw him someplace with

2:52:43a little thing in his hand to make fart noises.

2:52:46I saw that. Yeah. Yeah.

2:52:47So I knew that I would say to him, so you got a big hit

2:52:51here and he would do it, squeeze the thing.

2:52:54And yeah, I was just trying to find the funniest guest.

2:52:58And O .J., you know, he told me, he said some shit about, you know,

2:53:03I thought having a black host things would be different, you know.

2:53:06And I'm like, don't you play the race car.

2:53:09Yeah. Settle down. Yeah. Not you, Juice.

2:53:13But I ran into him in a club one night.

2:53:16I was hanging out with a couple members of New Edition.

2:53:19And we're in this club and he comes over and he gets drunk with us.

2:53:24And after we're pretty tanked, Nicole and this gorgeous girl named Faye Resnick, I'll never

2:53:32forget her name. She was beautiful.

2:53:34And these two women come over and I realize, oh, so because O .J.

2:53:38is alone. I realized he was going to places finding her.

2:53:43And so so she comes over and she says, Juice, you know, it's what do

2:53:48you do? You know, and he's just hanging out with these guys.

2:53:50And he's, you know, when you're drunk, spit, be flying.

2:53:53I wasn't drunk enough that I didn't see the spit.

2:53:56And so she said, well, I'm going to be over here with Faye and blah,

2:53:59blah, blah. Say something before you leave.

2:54:02And so we sit there and talk.

2:54:03But he said something that night that blew me away.

2:54:06We talked about her and he said, I still love her.

2:54:09I've tried to give her up and I can't.

2:54:12Wow. And that's crazy. Not too much later.

2:54:17She was dead. That's what that's around the time, too.

2:54:20I remember missing the show because one thing that's addictive about the talk show is

2:54:26anything in the news, you get to handle it.

2:54:28Right. And I remember watching a basketball game and seeing the freeway chase with the

2:54:33Bronco. And I was like, I want a monologue tomorrow.

2:54:39You know, I couldn't believe I didn't have a show that.

2:54:41That's the only time I've ever really missed it, because most of the time, you

2:54:44just go to the store.

2:54:45Right, right, right. That's hilarious.

2:54:47I wanted to talk to the nation that night.

2:54:49Well, listen, brother, you had a gigantic impact on culture.

2:54:53You really did. Your show was amazing.

2:54:55You know, you have an incredible life, and I'm really happy to hear that you're

2:54:59happy now and just enjoying life.

2:55:02And you look fucking fantastic for 70.

2:55:05That's amazing. Thank you, man.

2:55:07I appreciate you inviting me.

2:55:09This is one of those shows.

2:55:11Next time, you kind of come to the club.

2:55:13Next time you're in town.

2:55:14I've got to. Let me know.

2:55:15The show is important, but I can't wait.

2:55:18Come to the club. I look at the mothership behind you, the neon mothership.

2:55:21That was actually before the mothership was made.

2:55:24Oh. Yeah, this was six years old, this sign.

2:55:28We got this sign. My friend Brigham got me this when I first moved to

2:55:32Austin. So what did the spaceship mean before there was a club to you?

2:55:37I'm just a UFO fanatic.

2:55:38Oh, okay. I've always been obsessed.

2:55:41Because that looked like some shit.

2:55:42That's it. I went to a Parliament Funkadillic concert where they landed in some shit

2:55:46like that, and George Clinton came out and sang One Nation Under a Groove.

2:55:49Yeah. Wow. I've just always been obsessed.

2:55:52That's all it is. But next time you're in town, you're coming.

2:55:55Promise? Absolutely. All right. I'll come.

2:55:57I won't be in town.

2:55:59I'll figure out a way to hit you and say, Siri, Joe, I'm coming.

2:56:05Let's go. And I'll be here.

2:56:06Thanks for doing this, man, because your demographic reads.

2:56:10And I know I sold some books today.

2:56:12Yeah. Tell everybody the name of your book.

2:56:14Oh, we had a long -ass meeting about that.

2:56:17Do we call it Things That Make You Go, Hmm?

2:56:19A Life That Makes You Go, Hmm?

2:56:20Do we call it Who, Who, Who?

2:56:21We didn't know what. And then finally one day we named it Arsenio.

2:56:26Perfect. That's it. That's perfect.

2:56:28Yeah. And there's a book on tape for those who don't like to read.

2:56:31Oh, that's the book. And you know what?

2:56:32If you open it and you don't want to read it, there are really cool

2:56:35pictures inside. There you go.

2:56:38All right. The art department threw some AI on me.

2:56:42I'm 35 in that picture.

2:56:43You look 35 right now.

2:56:45All right. Appreciate you, brother.

2:56:46Thank you, dog. Bye, everybody.

2:56:49Bye, everybody. Bye, everybody.

#2480 - Arsenio Hall