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2:38Welcome back to A Numbers Game with Brian Gerdesky.

2:40Thank you guys for being here.

2:41We had a gangbuster week that we got through.

2:45Supreme Court had a major decision and it had an even more important argument they

2:51had. There was this huge controversy with Christine Noem that has blown up even larger

2:56that I want to address.

2:58And then we had some other news stories.

3:00But before we get to the court case, which is really the nuts and bolts

3:02of this episode, I need to talk about the Christine Noem controversy because I put

3:07out a tweet about my episode.

3:09So on March 24th, 2025, I said, I did not put her name out there

3:14because I wanted to respect her family's privacy.

3:17However, this is what I said on March 24th, 2025 that I repeated on Twitter.

3:22Here's the clip. Piece of DC gossip that I heard that I thought you guys

3:26would find fascinating. There is a member of Trump's cabinet.

3:30I'm not going to name names until this comes out publicly.

3:32But you guys put two and two together and you'll know what I'm talking about.

3:36There is a member of the cabinet who is, you know, well known.

3:41And it's well known that this member, it's a woman, is having an affair, a

3:45very semi -public affair. And if you're in political circles, you know.

3:49Well, a reporter walked up to her and said to her, why are you having

3:55this affair? Why haven't you met up with your husband?

3:57Why aren't you divorcing your husband?

3:58And she blurted out to this reporter, who I know, and said, oh, my husband's

4:04gay. Like, what? Didn't even try and, I don't know, make something up.

4:12Oh, we're doing it for the kids.

4:14We're still together. Please respect my pride.

4:15Blurted it out. Blurted it out.

4:18I don't know if it's going to come forward.

4:20I don't know if they're going to do a story in it.

4:21It's maybe too gossipy. I found it so interesting that they just blurted it out.

4:28Um, and whatever. We'll see if it comes about.

4:32I thought you guys would find it fascinating.

4:33If it becomes a story, I'll talk more about it.

4:35I don't know if someone's private life.

4:37But if it becomes a story, I just think that it's very interesting that they,

4:41uh, this person did not try harder to protect their spouse in this conversation.

4:47All right. Let's get to ask me anything.

4:49Um, I know some people really like the gossip, so I try to give it

4:52when I have it. When I said that, when I made those comments, um, I

4:56don't know if Kristi Noem's husband's actually gay or if he's just into fetishes or

5:01what the case may be.

5:02I think Kristi Noem was making those allegations allegedly to friends of mine in the

5:10media off the record, basically to justify an extramarital affair that she's allegedly having with

5:17Corey Lewandowski. I don't know why I say allegedly for, because it's, but it's allegedly,

5:22I know some people are pretty litigious in that orbit.

5:25For those who are surprised about this affair, it's very well known in D .C.,

5:30but it's been on for so long.

5:32And the conversation around her marriage has been happening.

5:35I heard about this situation with her husband and her in 2021, 2022, whenever she

5:43was running for re -election as governor of South Dakota.

5:46Her own team was texting me stories about her.

5:51Now, listen, no politician behind the scenes is perfect.

5:54Everyone has moments where they flare up or they are angry at their staff or

5:59something's going wrong. No campaign is perfect.

6:02And you get through hard times.

6:04I've been on 100 campaigns at this point.

6:07Everyone has a moment or two, but usually a good leader gets through them and

6:11you build even stronger loyalty to your team and to your politician that you're working

6:17for, your principles, what they call it.

6:19That is not the case with Kristi Noem.

6:23And her team leaked and leaked often.

6:25And they talked about the fact that she was and the campaign was a horror

6:29show. And this was a fairly easy campaign.

6:31I mean, it's South Dakota.

6:32It's a super red state.

6:32It's not like she was having hard competition.

6:36It's one of those elections you should be able to sleep through.

6:38But she was so determined to build a national name ID to be in public

6:45office that it became nightmarish for a lot of people.

6:49And what I find the worst part of it all is, you know, she had

6:55no problem tearing down her husband, who was the father of her children behind the

7:02scenes and publicly embarrassing him.

7:05I mean, when I say everybody in Washington, D .C.

7:08knows about this alleged affair with Corey Lundeski, everybody, literally, you could go to a

7:14garbage man, you could go to a, you know, literally an intern, everybody, everybody, everybody

7:20knew about this in Washington.

7:22And it's been going for so long.

7:24I remember back in 2022 at a fundraiser in Long Island.

7:30I ran into George Santos there.

7:32I forget what the fundraiser was for.

7:33But she was the key speaker.

7:35And I had COVID at the fundraiser.

7:37I don't know who I gave it to.

7:38I think I gave it to George Santos when I was at the fundraiser.

7:40But anyway, he was there with her.

7:43And he was like, when she walked into like the house, Monica Crowley was at

7:46the fundraiser too. When he walked into that house, he was putting his hands on

7:50the small of her back.

7:52It was in front of a lot of people like this.

7:54They did not really try hard to keep this a secret.

7:58And, and the conversation with their marriage has been going on for years and years

8:02and years. But like, and she says, I'm completely blindsided.

8:07Freaking calm down. Like calm down.

8:09You're not that blindsided because you know about the whispers that have been happening forever.

8:14Maybe you didn't know about the bodysuit and the fake, you know, the fake bubbies

8:17and all the rest of it.

8:18But you knew that something was awry and you're publicly embarrassed.

8:23But that's not Christy Nome's biggest problem.

8:26And this is what I want to get to.

8:28So I was on the phone a lot lately with people in the administration, people

8:32who are friends of mine who are reporters.

8:33And through the grapevine, I have been hearing that allegedly that there's this inspector general

8:41investigation on the Department of Homeland Security handling of contracts when Nome was the head

8:46of the department. And some people who got lucrative government contracts had close business connections,

8:55allegedly to Corey Lewandowski. Now, I don't know if this is going to happen, but

9:01allegedly they are, there is something called a Corey tax, where to get donation, to

9:10get government contracts with DHS, allegedly you had to donate to Corey's nonprofit or a

9:17profit that he was on the board of.

9:20And that this is allegedly going to move to a criminal investigation.

9:25That's what I've, or it's been recommended for a criminal investigation.

9:29That's a lot of allegedly is I know that.

9:32I know that be aware here, here first, you know, this is what I am

9:37hearing from a number of very, very important, well -tapped people.

9:44It all will depend on if Janine Pirro and the DOJ move on it.

9:49But, and so I don't know if that's going to happen, because who knows, maybe

9:52partisan politics plays a hand.

9:54But what I do know is when Democrats take the House in 2020, in November,

10:00very likely take the House, Christie and Corey are going to be in their target.

10:06That will be their, they will be in their scope.

10:10They will, there's no way that they are not going to get an actual investigation

10:15from Democrats. And I would not be shocked at all if they were figuring out

10:21how to try to get pardons ahead of time.

10:23I would not be shocked whatsoever.

10:25I don't know if they are, I have no information that they are, but I,

10:30I would not be shocked if they are not trying to start having someone speak

10:34to the president about this.

10:36And they're probably not the only ones after the Hunter Biden, after the Hunter Biden

10:43pardon that he received for any action he took during Biden's entire time as vice

10:49president to protect him. there's probably a number of people saying, look, the Democrats will

10:53come into the White House or the Congress, they're gonna come after all of us,

10:57let's just all get pardons.

10:58I would not be shocked if they're already talking about something like that.

11:02Out of fear, out of retribution.

11:05And although a lot of times political retribution is nonsense, there are times that there

11:10are nuggets of truth. So I don't know if we're gonna get a criminal investigation

11:18or anything like that. But I do know that the inspector that's looking into DHS

11:25right now is getting a lot of people singing like canaries or singing like birds

11:29or whatever bird sings. They are getting people talking about Corey and Christy and it

11:34is not good. So she has bigger things to worry about than whether or not

11:39her husband looks like Mrs.

11:42Doubtfire with the bodysuit on.

11:44Okay, another person I wanna talk about when it comes to political gossip is our

11:48buddy Graham Plattner. He is the leading Democratic candidate up in Maine.

11:54We did a whole episode on him a few weeks ago.

11:58And basically the long and short of it is when Graham was in his mid

12:00-30s, although he acts like he was like 15, when he was in his mid

12:04-30s, he liked to spend a lot of time on Reddit saying things like that

12:07he was a communist or that white people were stupid, that women need to take

12:11responsibility for being raped. All of which he says, oh, those are so old, that

12:17happened forever ago. This is not who I really am.

12:19I'm just an oyster farmer, an oyster fisherman, some kind of nonsense like that.

12:25Lie after lie after lie.

12:27Well, it turns out he had more things he posted on Reddit and I wanna

12:31make emphasis. He posted this on Reddit when he was 33 years old.

12:36Not 21, not 15, not 13.

12:38He wasn't a child. This was a full -grown man who had already been to

12:44war. So this is not somebody who had no life experience.

12:48He said that he was a, quote, crude atheist, that Jesus is a zombie and

12:53the Virgin Mary was a skank.

12:56That's what he wrote on Reddit.

12:58He's going to come out and say, these messages are old.

13:00This is not a reflection of who I am.

13:02And it's just nonsense in, nonsense out.

13:05This is, he is this person.

13:07He is a mentally unhinged person, which is why his own staff has been quitting

13:10on him because they don't think he's actually fit for office.

13:14And he's being absolutely propped up by, you know, Bernie bro donors nationwide.

13:20Maine is not that religious of a state.

13:23It's one of actually the least religious states in the country.

13:24So who knows if it's gonna negatively affect him.

13:27It just goes to show his character.

13:29There's something wrong with this person, like deeply wrong, deeply troubling.

13:33Um, and the other story that we're hearing as we go into this taping of

13:37this podcast is that Pam Bondi is soon to be out as AG.

13:41That's being reported by Semaphore.

13:43Um, I give credit to where it's due.

13:45I think Pam Bondi has done a number of good things when it comes to

13:48court cases. She's won a lot of victories for the administration, but there is no

13:54reason. I mean, as, as a staffer, as a former staffer, first in an office

14:00and on a campaign, your number one job is always to protect your principal.

14:04Your principal is the politician, the elected official, whoever that is.

14:08Pam Bondi's handling of the Epstein files was so just mind -blowingly bad from handing

14:16out those binders and reigniting the conversation, which really wasn't happening until Pam handed out

14:23those binders, those blank binders, to all those conservative influencers at the White House, and

14:28the binders had nothing in them.

14:29It was really, truly like a bizarre action that she took, all because she was

14:35having this feud with Congresswoman Anna Paulina Luna, who she allegedly, according to my friends

14:41who were at, in the White House at the time, she was talking in the

14:45women's bathroom about how much she hated Anna Paulina Luna, and Anna Paulina Luna was,

14:50you know, pushing her on Twitter and making one of her on Twitter to release

14:53the Epstein files. So, I give credit to where it's due on a number of

14:58her court wins, but her handling of the Epstein files situation, she made it an

15:03albatross around Trump's neck, and it doesn't literally make any sense at all.

15:08Okay, so speaking of Department of Justice, let's talk about the justices.

15:12Let's talk about the Supreme Court.

15:13There was two big cases heard this week.

15:16The first was a case that was decided, it was an eight -to -one decision,

15:20where the court ruled that Colorado cannot ban conversion therapy.

15:25Colorado was one of, I think, 20 states that have banned conversion therapy.

15:28That's where you, like, send your kids to camp so they can pray the gay

15:32away. There's never been any medical study that proves that any of this is actually

15:37effective or works, causes kids with a lot of problems.

15:40I know a few people who had went to those kind of conversion therapy camps

15:42and came out a little messed up from the whole entire thing.

15:46However, they ruled that this is an infringement on free speech, and I give the

15:51court a lot of credit.

15:52The court has been exceptional when it comes to protecting free speech.

15:55Now, the sole person against the majority decision was Justice Kentonji Brown Jackson.

16:05She was the dissenting voice.

16:07And here's the thing. Like, this is how I think of the liberal justices on

16:11the court. Kagan is a very smart justice.

16:15She's just a liberal, but she's not a dumb person.

16:18I'm like... And that is why I think sometimes Kagan will have these court decisions

16:22where she's one of a mixed bag of justices because she's very thoughtful.

16:25And even though I don't always agree with her, she is she's not she doesn't

16:29have a low IQ. Sotomayor, how do I say this in a polite way?

16:35She's she's less than smart for Supreme Court justice.

16:40Right. She's not like if I lived next door to her, she probably is a

16:45lovely person and moves through the world pretty well.

16:48I don't think she's should be one of the nine members on the court, even

16:52if you replaced her with another Kagan.

16:55The thing about Kataji Brown Jackson is she's less than smart for a woman.

17:01Like she's not only less than smart for a court justice, she's less than smart

17:05for a woman. And her opinions are truly batshit crazy.

17:10And you saw it in this decision in the eight to one decision in Colorado.

17:15And that's I mean, when she's the sole dissenting voice and not even Kagan nor

17:21Sotomayor are willing to join her, you know, you're in for something that's truly crazy.

17:25So this was a footnote in the case.

17:27And I want to read it.

17:29Justice Jackson's dissenting opinion claims that this is a small or non -existent category.

17:34See post 21 to 22.

17:35But even her own opinion, when listing laws supposedly put at risk today offers quite

17:40few exceptions. Her view to the contrary rests on the reimagining and in a way

17:44collapsing the well -settled distinction between viewpoint based and other content based speech restrictions.

17:51Basically, she had no merit to what she was saying.

17:54This is the quote from her dissenting opinion.

17:57Just listen. Just listen. She said, quote, the equivalent of Chile's First Amendment claim transported

18:04to the holder context. The holder context is the case would be as if the

18:08United States in the holder had said, your professionals are prohibited from committing acts of

18:13terrorism. And the lawyers among them responded, it's unconstitutional to apply your no terrorist acts

18:18prohibition because we want to commit prohibited terrorist acts with our speech.

18:24What is she talking about?

18:26Like, what is she talking about?

18:31The second big case was over birthright citizenship.

18:34And she made this point, which was just jaw -dropping.

18:42That's clip two. Go to that now.

18:44I was thinking about this.

18:46And I think there are various sources that say this, that you can have—you obviously

18:52have permanent allegiance based on being born in whatever country you're from.

18:57That's what everybody recognizes. But you also have local allegiance when you are on the

19:04soil of this other sovereign.

19:07And I was thinking, you know, I'm—I, U .S.

19:10citizen, am visiting Japan. And what it means is that, you know, if I steal

19:15someone's wallet in Japan, the Japanese authorities can arrest me and prosecute me.

19:24It's allegiance meaning can they control you as a matter of law.

19:29I can also rely on them if my wallet is stolen to, you know, under

19:34Japanese law, go and prosecute the person who has stolen it.

19:38So there's this relationship based on—even though I'm a temporary traveler, I'm just on vacation

19:44in Japan, I'm still locally owing allegiance in that sense.

19:50Ladies and gentlemen, I am afraid to tell you that one of the nine members

19:54of our Supreme Court is an idiot.

19:57There's—she's an idiot. She's very, very, very dumb.

20:00And she interprets the laws for 340 million people.

20:05There's no other way to say it.

20:06She's crazy. I mean, this is nuts.

20:10With me this week to talk about the birthright citizenship case and how it's, you

20:15know, how it's affecting the country, how it's—how it—how the court may rule on it,

20:19what the case for the—for the White House is, is my buddy, Will Chamberlain.

20:22We're going to talk about that coming up next.

20:26How is TD making banking more human with less bank talk and more real talk?

20:31Less, your call is important to us, and more, how can we help?

20:35It's getting more of what you want and less of what you don't.

20:38That's how TD's making banking more human.

20:42Support for the show comes from Public, the investing platform for those who take a

20:45look at take it seriously.

20:46On Public, you can build a multi -asset portfolio of stocks, bonds, options, crypto, and

20:51now generated assets, which allow you to turn any idea into an investable index with

20:55AI. It all starts with your prompt, from renewable energy companies with high free cash

21:00flow to semiconductor suppliers growing revenue over 20 % year over year.

21:04You can literally type any prompt and put the AI to work.

21:07It screens thousands of stocks, builds a one -of -a -kind index, and lets you

21:10backtest it against the S &P 500.

21:12Then you can invest in a few clicks.

21:14Generated assets are like ETFs with infinite possibilities, completely customizable and based on your thesis,

21:20not someone else's. Go to public .com slash podcast and earn an uncapped 1 %

21:24bonus when you transfer your portfolio.

21:26That's public .com slash podcast.

21:28Paid for by Public Investing.

21:29Brokered services by Open to the Public Investing, Inc., member FINRA, and SIPC.

21:32Advisory services by Public Advisors, LLC, SEC Registered Advisor.

21:35Generated assets is an interactive analysis tool.

21:36Output is for informational purposes only and is not an investment recommendation or advice.

21:39Complete disclosures available at public .com slash disclosures.

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23:14With me on today's episode is my buddy Will Chamberlain from the Senior Counsel at

23:19the Article Free Project. Will, thanks for being here.

23:21Always good to be with you, Ryan.

23:23So, Will, the case for birthright citizenship is probably the most important, I mean, one

23:29of the most important in like a decade.

23:30And there's some really smart conservative thinkers in the legal world, like Jonathan Turley and

23:36John Eastman and Randy Barnett, who have been very supportive of the government's case.

23:41What is the government's case for why we shouldn't have birthright citizenship for children of

23:47illegal immigrants? So, it revolves around the key phrase in that passage of the 14th

23:52Amendment, subject to the jurisdiction thereof, right?

23:55Everybody's a citizen who's born here and subject to the jurisdiction thereof.

23:58And the question is, what does that mean?

24:00And based on readings of what the framers of this amendment said at the time,

24:07how people discussed jurisdiction and essentially also connecting back to the 1866 Civil Rights Act,

24:13which was intended to instantiate, the idea of jurisdiction is deeply connected to domicile and

24:19allegiance. So, the idea is that you need to be legally domiciled in the United

24:22States and that your primary allegiance needs to be to the United States.

24:27And that can, that's that under our argument or under the argument of the administration

24:30is fulfilled if you're a legal permanent resident.

24:34But it doesn't apply to temporary visitors and it doesn't apply to illegal aliens.

24:37The idea being that you can't legally form a domicile in the United States if

24:41you're legally present. So... And the children of ambassadors, is that right?

24:46They don't get it either.

24:47Say again? The children of ambassadors?

24:50Correct. The children of ambassadors don't get it.

24:52And sort of the respondents theory, right, the Democrats theory, acknowledges the existence of these

24:58exceptions. They say, okay, well, obviously this doesn't cover the children of ambassadors, children of

25:02invading armies, and it doesn't cover tribal Indians at the time of the enactment.

25:06But they said, you know, if you heard the ACLU, she kept saying the phrase

25:11closed set, the idea being that subject to the jurisdiction thereof didn't create some sort

25:16of general rule that you could...

25:18Have further applications of down the line, it reflected a closed set of exceptions that

25:22existed at the time of the enactment, and there are no further exceptions to it.

25:27And that theory is kind of problematic, and the justices, you know, a lot of

25:31people have been dooming about oral arguments yesterday.

25:33I'm not so doom and gloom.

25:34I think we've got a fighting chance here, and it's because they're asking the right

25:37questions of the ACLU attorney.

25:39They're asking, okay, you're saying it's a closed set of exceptions, then why didn't they

25:44just specify those exceptions in the Constitution instead of coming up with this new phraseology

25:49subject to the jurisdiction thereof?

25:51Wouldn't that suggest that that's actually a broader principle that could include new categories over

25:57time? Yeah, and you know, a lot of people may...

26:00I'm not a lawyer, and I didn't graduate from college, although I'm law school.

26:04The thing that I found very interesting was I talked to a lot of my

26:08smart conservative legal friends, and they were saying, no, these are very good questions, actually.

26:13The conversation between both the government and the ACLU were very, very smart, and they

26:21said it was very smart for the government to say, we're not trying to overturn

26:25Wong Kim, what is it, Wong Kim?

26:28Wong Kim Ark. Wong Kim Ark.

26:30Explain what that is and why that came up so frequently in the conversation.

26:35So, Wong Kim Ark is, you know, one of the big cases that deals with

26:40birthright citizenship in any context, and really, there's a huge fight over the meaning of

26:45Wong Kim Ark and how broadly it needs to be interpreted, right?

26:49So, Wong Kim Ark dealt with, at the time, what we would call now a

26:53legal permanent residence, somebody who had immigrated from China at a time of open borders

26:57and settled in San Francisco, and their child, I believe the facts are their child,

27:03was born in the United States to these legal permanent residents.

27:05Not naturalized, but legal permanent residents, returned to China at some point and then came

27:10back, and they were trying to exclude him from coming into the country.

27:14And basically, it turned on whether this guy was a citizen or not.

27:18And the Supreme Court said, yes, he's the children child of legally domiciled residents.

27:25Then he is and he was born here.

27:26He's a citizen. And so the question then is, does that apply to the children

27:30of illegal aliens now? Because the concept of illegal aliens would have been difficult to

27:34understand at the time of the enactment of the 14th Amendment or the time of

27:38Wong Kim Ark, given that we just didn't have the, you know, people illegally present

27:43in the country in the same way.

27:45So you have to kind of analogize it to these other ideas.

27:49But but the basic the key thing to understand is why they're the whole the

27:53way that the court handles that case.

27:55And if you read the Wong Kim Ark opinion, they say we are limiting our

27:58holding. The only thing we are deciding is whether a legally domiciled the child of

28:02legally domiciled foreigners is a citizen if they're born here.

28:06And so you can distinguish that from the children of illegal aliens.

28:10And the court has never ruled on illegal immigrants, right?

28:13Because there's a narrative that, oh, the court ruled this for everybody.

28:17They've never talked about this.

28:18And my friend Ann Coulter always says there was a footnote in a Brennan decision

28:23that kind of created this idea that birthright goes to illegal immigrants.

28:27But it's never actually been ruled for the courts itself.

28:30It's a relatively new legal theory.

28:33Correct. And moreover, there hasn't been any sort of originalist scholarship to try and really

28:37understand the meaning of the 14th Amendment, in particular, this phrase subject to the jurisdiction

28:41thereof. It was just sort of conventional wisdom that birthright citizenship applied to everybody.

28:46But that conventional wisdom can be wrong.

28:49And, you know, if you think about the Second Amendment jurisprudence, there was a lot

28:52of conventional wisdom that the Second Amendment didn't make the gun rights an individual right.

28:56And then the originalists did their scholarship on it, revealed what, how this, you know,

29:02how this amendment was understood at the time of enactment.

29:05And the Supreme Court went along with what the originalists had done.

29:07And the same thing has happened here.

29:09You have really good scholars, people like Elan Worman at the University of Minnesota, Kurt

29:12Lash at the University of Richmond, Randy Barnett at Georgetown.

29:16Barnett, who also is no, you know, no hardline immigration restrictionist.

29:19Randy Barnett's a famous libertarian, but he and others have done the work in terms

29:23of trying to understand, you know, gone through the literature, gone through the records of

29:28the enactment. And they're like, no, it's subject to the jurisdiction thereof really was broader.

29:33And, you know, it's not clear at all that it, you know, would have they

29:36would have thought that this included illegal aliens.

29:38Right. And I think that's such an important part, which you just mentioned about the

29:41Second Amendment. In the original interpretation, obviously, it didn't include semi -automatic weapons.

29:46They didn't exist. The First Amendment didn't include the Internet.

29:48It didn't exist. So it would only seem normal that the concept of illegal immigrants

29:55didn't exist, certainly not the way that it does now, not the size that it

29:59does now. And there wasn't an ACLU at the time to sue on their behalf

30:03for everything imaginable. What were the questions being asked to the ACLU that I think

30:10that you think were the most important?

30:12Yeah, I think the questions asked to the ACLU were, you know, do you first

30:18off, we discussed the big one.

30:19Do you think this is a general rule or do you think this is a

30:22closed set of exceptions and why?

30:26Other things were trying to understand, you know, the meaning of how the why is

30:31domicile being discussed so much in Wong Kim Ark?

30:34That's a huge one because a big if you listen to the ACLU's opening presentation,

30:40they're like, this is a stupid case because Wong Kim Ark controls and the, you

30:45know, the government is not asking you to overturn Wong Kim Ark.

30:48So the rule of decision in Wong Kim Ark holds and you have to do

30:51it. And I mean, the justice has asked questions like, well, then why did they

30:54limit the holding, you know, why did they specify and limit the holding?

30:58And moreover, there was an interesting, subtle question that I think people people thought was

31:03funny. Even I saw Democrats posting it like it was a gotcha for the administration.

31:07At one point, Kavanaugh asked the ACLU, so you think this is like a simple

31:11case, guys, right? You think it's just we can, you know, Wong Kim Ark controls.

31:15The government's not asking us to overturn Wong Kim Ark.

31:17The end. Two page opinion, right?

31:19Right. And the ACLU is like, yes.

31:21And that's not a good answer.

31:23And the reason that's not a good answer is because the Supreme Court doesn't take

31:26stupid cases. Right. That's it.

31:28Clarence Thomas has said this before.

31:30Like when he said, I get really annoyed whenever, you know, an advocate comes up

31:35to the Supreme Court and says this is an easy case.

31:37And it's like, really, why did we take it then?

31:39Like we only take 70 cases a year.

31:42And moreover, there's plenty of cases we dispose of without oral argument that we think

31:46are easy. So the fact that you're here means we don't think this is easy.

31:49So why are you coming up and telling me it's easy?

31:52And so that was Kavanaugh didn't say that.

31:54But when I hear whenever you hear a Supreme Court justice inquire to an advocate

31:59and be like, so you think this is an easy case?

32:01That's the answer shouldn't be yes.

32:03Yeah. And, you know, the crazy about the Supreme Court, and I was saying this

32:06yesterday, it is probably the last institution with the government where you really don't ever

32:10hear leaking in terms of justices speaking about each other in a negative way or

32:16they take their jobs extremely seriously and to a very high position.

32:22Now, can I ask you, and I made fun of her in my monologue, but

32:26Judge Jackson is clearly, like, retarded.

32:30Like, there's something going on where she talked about something to do with Japan, and

32:37if you try to steal a pocketbook in Japan and you have local loyalty.

32:41as a visitor. Do you know what she's talking about?

32:46Because I actually re -listened to it, and I couldn't understand what she was saying.

32:50Because I'm deep in the literature, I understand what she's trying to get at.

32:53She's not doing it articulately.

32:54Like the thing about Justice Jackson, when you listen to her, she takes so long

32:57to formulate her questions, right?

32:59She's not concise at all.

33:01She's not a precise thinker.

33:02It's just inevitable. But I understand what she's trying to get at, because I know

33:05I'm deep in having read the briefs.

33:08So she's trying to get to this question of what does it mean to be

33:11subject to the jurisdiction thereof and to have some obligation of allegiance.

33:16And the idea being that there is a minimal way to understand jurisdiction and allegiance

33:20that just involves, I am obligated to follow the law, right?

33:23Like in some sense, even somebody here legally present has some minor obligation of allegiance

33:29to the United States, which is if he commits a crime, he's going to be

33:33held accountable in court. So you can understand that as meaning you have an obligation

33:38to be adhering to the law.

33:42That's what she's trying to get at.

33:43Now, the problem is the way that the people who are framing the 14th Amendment

33:46described it was, it's not some, you know, that is not what we mean by

33:50allegiance. It's more complete than that.

33:52It's more substantive than that.

33:55So that's why, you know, for example, American Indians had an obligation to follow American

33:59law when they were off the reservation in the tribal times, right around the time

34:03of the enactment. And yet they were still that their children were not birthright citizens,

34:07even if there's those children were born on what was obviously American territory and not

34:13Indian territory. So, you know, the American Indian example is really, really difficult to deal

34:18with for the respondents. It's the hardest thing to deal with.

34:21And that's also another reason you've heard so many questions about it.

34:24But didn't they get, didn't Native Americans' children get the birthright situation through an act

34:29of Congress, not through the courts?

34:32Correct. They were, they're not entitled to it under the 14th Amendment.

34:34So the statute had to create it.

34:35And that's, that's also a really key thing to understand about when, whenever liberals doom

34:39and gloom about a bad ruling in the birthright citizenship case, the Constitution sets a

34:45floor with the 14th Amendment about who gets jurisdiction or rather who must get citizenship.

34:49But it gives the right of naturalization to Congress.

34:52Like it gives that, that power is explicit.

34:54So Congress, whatever, whatever problems that are identified or, you know, whatever mess is created,

35:00Amy Coney Barrett said, oh, well, the implementation will be messy.

35:03So, well, Congress can fix any of that.

35:05If there's any sort of hard case with found, you name the hard case, Congress

35:09can solve it by creating a naturalization rule for those individuals who are hard done

35:13by, you know, in a world where the rule would be just the floor set

35:17by the 14th Amendment. Yeah.

35:19And I think that, I think the reason I know a lot of conservatives were

35:23saying, oh, this is coming out, coming against us is because I know Gorsuch was

35:27talking a lot about Native Americans.

35:28Gorsuch is just kind of obsessed with Native Americans in a very weird way.

35:31Talks about them more frequently than I think any other justice ever does.

35:36Coney Barrett talked about it would be messy.

35:38Kavanaugh was slightly aggressive towards the government.

35:41Not Kavanaugh, Roberts was. If, if the court, if the court's not, people say, oh,

35:48it's a, it's a six, three conservative court.

35:51What it really is, is, you know, two very conservative justices, Alito and, and Thomas,

35:56uh, three institutionalists, one libertarian and three liberal justices.

36:03How would you see, um, Kavanaugh, Roberts, uh, ACB and Gorsuch siding?

36:12I mean, that's really the four key things that they, how they side is how

36:16this, this case is really going to go.

36:18So I think here's my guess.

36:20This is my guess. I think, I think we end up getting Kavanaugh and Gorsuch.

36:24I think we get Kavanaugh because I think Kavanaugh's question about, you think this is

36:28a simple case? I think we're going to get him because I think he, he

36:31realizes one, one, he's an executive power believer.

36:34And so the idea that we just couldn't stop birth tourism and that we'd constitutionalize

36:37a rule for birth tourism, I think will strike him as very wrong.

36:40Um, and, and kind of obvious.

36:42And then, and then he's not, I don't think he'll be impressed by, uh, what

36:46the, what the, the respondents, the ACLU is saying about this being a closed set.

36:51Gorsuch too. People go, you know, got on Gorsuch and they're not sure about him,

36:54but, you know, and especially there was this one question Gorsuch asked Sauer where Sauer

36:58didn't have a great answer, which was, are American Indians born now birthright citizens?

37:02And that should have been just a flat yes.

37:04Right. It's an interesting question because it's, we have a different set.

37:07The, the American Indians and the tribes are in a different relationship to the United

37:10States now than they were in the 1860s.

37:12So the question of whether they would have birthright citizenship now is different, um, even

37:16under the old rule. But one of the, I mean, Gorsuch isn't a good, a

37:20very good originalist. He makes a point of being that.

37:22And I don't think he will have been persuaded by the ACLU's point.

37:26At one point he was asking them about domicile and wonky mark and the ACLU,

37:30uh, you know, kind of give some muffed answer.

37:33And he's like, it's difficult, isn't it?

37:35And that, that was a real tell that he's like, you know, you don't have

37:38great arguments. You don't have actually a great answer to the briefs, uh, that were

37:42written by the government. The government has some really good arguments that you guys don't

37:45seem to have a good answer to.

37:46So I think we'll win Gorsuch.

37:48Roberts and Barrett are where I get a little bit wishy washy.

37:51I think Barrett's really deeply, deeply pro -immigration.

37:54And so she, she'll have a hard time voting the right way here.

37:56I think she'll find a way to not.

37:57And then Roberts, I thought Roberts had the worst question of all, uh, from any

38:01of the conservatives, which was at the beginning he asked, well, you know, these, these,

38:05these, these are very small categories that you found like the children of ambassadors.

38:09outsiders, children invading armies, American Indians, like, and yet you're trying to expand it to

38:13this big category of illegal aliens.

38:15And I thought that was a, you know, normally Roberts is pretty sharp.

38:19I thought that was a dumb question because the idea being that the children of

38:22people illegally present in the United States should be an extremely small category because theoretically,

38:27right? Like why, why are they here?

38:29Right. They'll, they've broken a law to get here that should be enforced.

38:31And then they've broken a law to stay here, which they should be trying to

38:34be retrieved. And so this should be actually an extremely small category of people.

38:39And yet for because of the dereliction of, of previous administrations, it's not, but that

38:43doesn't, that doesn't prove your point.

38:45Yeah, they are the most concerning, I think.

38:47And I do think, I mean, AC, ACB has come in very clutch at times

38:52as far as conservative rulings.

38:55And then other times she's been a giant disappointment.

38:57Um, and I guess that's the, that's the, that's the thing with the court.

39:00Sometimes you really don't know.

39:01Look at Kagan and Sotomayor ruling that, uh, about trans, um, about the, uh, about

39:06the Colorado case when it came to, uh, the camps for, for gay youth.

39:12Uh, I did not assume it was going to be a, uh, eight one decision,

39:15but you know, I think with the courts, you kind of never know.

39:18So it's interesting. When will this decision you think come out?

39:22Uh, it'll come out probably June.

39:25Uh, so like late, I would assume late, I would assume that there's going to

39:28be a lot of writing either way.

39:30Uh, and that it'll come out late.

39:32I mean, if it comes out earlier, that's a bad sign because if it comes

39:34out earlier, then that means that, uh, Ken Detonji Jackson is not writing some like

39:39super fulsome dissent that takes like 50 years to write.

39:43Well, is that, is that why speaking, just transitioning for one last question, is that

39:48why the case when it comes to Louisiana, Alabama, VRA section two is not out

39:52yet? Cause that was just, that was talked about in October and it's April and

39:56we haven't gotten that case yet.

39:58That is my guess. That's what, cause Alito is the only person without an opinion

40:01out from that sitting. It's almost, you know, you, if you've been on the oral

40:05arguments, the conservatives won. So I expect there is some like a hundred page dissent

40:10from Jackson that is holding it, that is trying to be finalized, that is holding

40:13up that opinion. That's my guess.

40:15Okay. So we'll work. We'll go to read more about what you put out there.

40:18You're very, very smart, especially on, on legal stuff.

40:20So we're going to read your stuff.

40:22All right. You can read my stuff at Will Chamberlain on X.

40:24That's primarily where I post.

40:25You occasionally see op -eds from me.

40:26You can also follow what we do with the article -free project by going to

40:29a3paction .com where we, you know, have a lot of campaigns to try and push

40:33for the confirmation of various people and for various other legislative action.

40:36All right. Well, thank you for having this podcast.

40:38I appreciate it. Absolutely. Thanks for having me.

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43:42code iHeart. Now it's time for the Ask Me Anything segment.

43:46If you want any part of the Ask Me Anything segment, email me Ryan at

43:49NumbersGamePodcast .com. That's Ryan at PluralNumbersGamePodcast .com.

43:52I will get to all your emails.

43:54I know I have about two dozen sitting in the chamber.

43:57I promise you, I might have to do an all Ask Me Anything episode soon.

44:02It's going to get through them all, but I will get to all these questions.

44:05So the first one comes to Andrew.

44:07He says, can you lay out how you think the Texas Senate runoff will turn

44:10out? Cornyn overperformed it for spending a huge amount of money in the primary, which

44:14leaves less money for some other important races.

44:16I think North Carolina and Georgia will be at a loss if the money starts

44:20drying up. Yes. So I thought, I mean, Cornyn did, Cornyn was polling to be

44:25in second and turned in first.

44:26Now he spent $100 million, spent a lot of money on this primary.

44:30Remember, Texas has eight media markets.

44:33It's one of the most expensive states to campaign in because there's so many media

44:37markets to campaign. But I, and I thought, okay, Trump's going to endorse him and

44:43Cornyn is going to come out winning like he always does.

44:47And then Paxton made this comment where he said he would drop out if the

44:51Senate passed the SAVE Act.

44:54And Trump's opinion changed remarkably because it's what Trump's so, you know, agitated about is

45:00the passing of the SAVE Act.

45:02Whoever told Paxton to say that deserves an award for campaign manager of the year.

45:10A stroke of genius by his campaign.

45:15Whoever told him to do that stroke of genius because it held back the Cornyn

45:22endorsement. And while that was happening, Trump was asking his supporters or his diehard base,

45:29who do you like? Who do you like?

45:30Who do you like? And they were all saying Paxton.

45:33And now he has a big hesitation.

45:35And then worst of all, in that timeframe, there were polls taken saying, if you

45:41endorsed Cornyn, who would win?

45:43And the poll said Paxton.

45:46And Trump hates being on the losing side of an issue.

45:49And I think that given who turns out in a runoff election is a generally

45:55very conservative audience. Now, there's a big enthusiasm problem in the GOP right now in

46:00Texas. That's absolutely true. They are not energized whatsoever.

46:04You had, but you still have a lot of conservatives there.

46:08I also have heard from many people that Paxton's a lazy campaigner, which gives me

46:12pause. And he didn't raise that much money.

46:14Now, if he's the nominee, the GOP is going to sweep in to help him,

46:17you know, raise money. But I think the polls showing also him and Tallarico having

46:21the same margin of error as him and Cornyn really takes away from the whole

46:26he can't win opinion. Yeah, I saw my bet would be on Paxton.

46:32Long and sure my bet is that Paxton's going to win this whole thing.

46:34And I did not think that right afterwards, but I think that Paxton's campaign played

46:38this moment brilliantly. Okay, next question comes from Robert.

46:42He says, Hey, Ryan, thank you so much for taking my questions last time.

46:44You responded quicker than I anticipated.

46:46I think you asked a really good question, Robert.

46:47That's why I jumped at the chance.

46:49I'm not that you, not that the people who ask questions that I haven't answered,

46:52haven't asked good questions. I just haven't got a chance to read them all.

46:55Uh, you read an episode about JD Vance and your guest said that he rubbed

46:59a lot of people the wrong way.

47:00I think that was Mark Halpern.

47:01I like to hear some examples that come to your mind when you hear that

47:04also being that, you know, JD personally can give listeners, we only know him from

47:08the camera, what he's really like when he's on the camera.

47:10So, I mean, I don't know what Mark was necessarily saying.

47:15I think with donors, he rubbed people the wrong way.

47:18Look, there's a lot of donors who have something that me and a few other

47:23of my campaign friends called donor brain.

47:25And that is where you are more liberal than the general public, more liberal than

47:30the, uh, Republican voting bloc.

47:33And you care about things like foreign policy in a different way than I think

47:37generic Republicans whose kids serve in the military do.

47:40And when you, when it's very funny when candidates remove themselves from donor brain and

47:46become candidates and get more infused with how Republican voters feel, it's interesting to see

47:52their transition. Bernie Marino, when he was a donor, not a candidate, very much had

47:58donor brain. I mean, he was very liberal, crazy liberal a number of times.

48:03And he has done a remarkably good job at transforming himself and being more well

48:11-versed in what the base feels than what I think wealthy donors feel.

48:15So I don't exactly know what Mark was talking about.

48:17I don't have an instance of that.

48:18I did hear that, you know, a lot of donors do want Rubio because I

48:22think that they think, um, his foreign policy lines up with theirs, but I don't

48:26exactly know what the instance was.

48:28What is JD like personally?

48:31He's a bro. Like, that's the thing is JD is very much a, like, what's

48:36the saying? Like you can take, you can take someone out of like, I don't

48:40know, you can take someone out of their town, but you can never take that

48:43town out of that person.

48:44That's kind of what JD is like.

48:45I'll say this campaign story.

48:46When we were doing the campaign, what well -financed campaigns will do a lot is

48:51they will search a candidate's entire social media history to find out what is in

48:56the opposition research book of another campaign.

48:59So he had to go through JD's entire social media history.

49:02And I think JD's first Facebook post, remember, When he is talking about the activity

49:04Mah机 once said, before every year, you think process, and I just now remember, you

49:04got to go through on it where his He's a millennial, so he grew up

49:06on social media. I think it was either his first or one of his first

49:10social media posts was like, never eating gas station sushi again.

49:15Like, it's very normal. It's very, very normal.

49:19He likes, his sense of humor is very R -rated, I guess.

49:26Like, it's very bro -related.

49:30It's funny, but it's not appropriate for the campaign trail, which is perfectly fine.

49:33A lot of people, John McCain allegedly had a very foul mouth in private and

49:38then in public. You don't talk like that.

49:40It's not polite. But JD has that.

49:44He's very curious. He likes to hear a lot of opinions from people.

49:51And I think that he's somebody who has a general need to try to find,

50:00to better himself at all times.

50:01There are some people who are working on themselves a lot.

50:04I think JD comes across like that.

50:06JD is also immensely loyal to some people who we've, like, I mean, I'm not

50:12trying to play armchair psychologist, but I think of it like this.

50:15If you were somebody who statistically was supposed to fail in life, by your statistics

50:21of your background and your upbringing, and once in a while somebody saw something in

50:25you and said, I'm going to make you a priority to help make sure you

50:29get to the next plateau in life, you kind of never forget them.

50:33And I had dinner one time with Amy Chua.

50:37She's the tiger mom lady, and she was a Yale professor.

50:39I don't know if she's still there, but she was.

50:41And she was, JD was a student of hers.

50:43And she absolutely rooted and believed in JD very much so.

50:47And she's a lovely person.

50:49So, so, so smart. Her one book, World on Fire, and then Political Tribes.

50:56Political Tribes is a genius, genius, genius political book.

51:00Incredible. But he was immensely defensive and supportive of her.

51:04And you could see that relationship building.

51:07I remember asking him, I'll tell you one of the questions.

51:09I remember asking him that about the shooting of the Hillbilly Elegy movie.

51:15And I said to him, what was, because imagine, like, Glenn Close, who played his

51:20grandma in the movie, is, like, a legendary, brilliant actress.

51:24And I said to him, like, what was, what'd she ask you?

51:28What was that like? And he said the crazy thing was, like, she would ask,

51:30like, how did she, what leg did she lean most of her weight on when

51:34she walked? How did she hold her cigarette?

51:36And he said he brought his family to come see the filming.

51:39And when he, when she walked out on set as his grandmother, it almost, they

51:46had to take a step back.

51:47Because she was so much like his grandmother, who she obviously had never met.

51:52And I don't know, I find him to be very normal.

51:56I know that's not, like, a real answer.

51:59There are some politicians who are very, very much like Greasy.

52:04You know, I've met many of those before.

52:06There are some that kind of don't have an identity.

52:09And you could tell, like, they'd never read a book before.

52:11They could be nice people, but they've clearly never read a book before.

52:14And then there are people who are just more normal.

52:18And JD always came off as very normal.

52:20He likes frappro, sense of humor.

52:22He's got a really good music taste, too.

52:25And, like, his music taste is actually pretty legit.

52:28It's very millennial, but it's legit.

52:30And yeah, that's what, that's a person I have known.

52:33And throughout this relationship. And, like, our casual now relationship.

52:39I don't text him that often, because, like, what do you text, like, the vice

52:41president? Like, hey, how's it going?

52:43I don't know. The dichotomy has changed so much that it, but we do speak

52:46occasionally. But that's the person I knew certainly during the Senate race, and before that,

52:51where I spoke to him much more frequently.

52:52Okay, last question comes from Michael from North Carolina.

52:55Good morning, Ryan. You are doing a great job in your pockets.

52:57Thank you, Michael. Thank you for listening.

52:59I really appreciate it. I hope it continues to grow and gets more support it

53:02deserves. Trump is very effective at picking the $100 bill that other politicians ignored, whether

53:07for ideological purposes or for donor support.

53:09By this, I mean issues that are 70, 30, or 80, 20, support among the

53:12general public, like trans girls, sports, and deporting illegal criminals.

53:15Trump and the GOP seem to have lost that ability.

53:18For example, you have pointed out other politicians' ads, talking about the TSA line, should

53:22write themselves. The Democrats would rather ruin your vacation than deport men who murdered Lakin

53:26Riley and Sheridan Gordon. Why is that?

53:29Are congressional Republicans sabotaging Trump?

53:31I don't understand. I understand Trump is consumed with Iran, but what about the rest

53:35of the political operation? Such a good question, Michael.

53:39I think about this all the time.

53:40So part of it is, and this is a major part of it, right?

53:46A lot of Republicans, right?

53:50I'll put it like this.

53:51For example, perfect example. There were no Reagan Republicans while Reagan was president.

53:57The Reagan Republicans really started coming about during the Republican Revolution of 94, after he

54:04was left office, because the generation that was so heavily influenced by Reagan started kind

54:10of coming about and identifying as Reagan Republicans.

54:13They didn't necessarily do that while Reagan was president.

54:17And a lot of Republicans who are in office now are still very much of

54:25a certain mindset that is their default.

54:29So when you don't understand something, you're...

54:32default is to lean to what you already know, whether or not it's true or

54:37not. And I think for a lot of Republicans, their default is not lined up

54:43with an economic populist default.

54:45They worry about, you know, maybe the market or maybe donors or I don't know,

54:51not the working class. And they don't even understand it.

54:55Like they just generally don't understand it.

54:57They've gotten better. They've certainly gotten better than when they started 12 years ago, 10

55:01years ago now. But on economic populist, that they really are still buried behind on

55:07foreign policy stuff. They're so behind.

55:09I remember this is an off the record conversation I took place, but I got

55:13to go to the Republican study committee.

55:16This is right after Russia invaded Ukraine and it's off the record meeting.

55:22And there was a congressman, I'm not going to say his name, but he got

55:26up there in front of the Republican study committee.

55:28And he said that he wanted his resolution was to put a bust of Zelensky

55:34next to the bust of Winston Churchill in the state Capitol because that was like

55:40a modern day Winston Churchill.

55:42Like they're just delusional. You know what I mean?

55:46They so badly want to be part of a great moment that they are not

55:51even aware of the moment they're in.

55:52You know what I mean?

55:53It's very much that. And they default to a lot of influences that I don't

55:59think are, you know, informative.

56:03And it's a lot of times politicians have the same problem that journalists do.

56:10If you go to a journalist room, very few people go to church, very few

56:15registered Republicans, very few drive a pickup truck, very few listen to country music, very

56:19few own a gun, very few live in a Republican county.

56:24It is a bubble. And a lot of people in Washington, D .C., most of

56:29them have college degrees, most of their staff have college degrees, many have advanced degrees.

56:34They've been there too long, they know the same people, and they are too out

56:38of touch with their general public.

56:40They just are. And their default, whenever they don't understand something, or they have like

56:44maybe like one or two issues they really care about.

56:46I'm sorry, Mike, by the way, for those watching and not listening, my hair is

56:50wild today, and I apologize.

56:54So there's a number of issues they care about deeply, and they understand deeply.

56:59And then there's a lot of things that they just don't know.

57:02So they move to the default, and there is no lobbyist for working class Americans.

57:08There's no lobbying group for middle America.

57:11There's no lobbying group for the suburbs or for rural America.

57:14There's lobbying groups for farms, but that's massive agriculture.

57:18There's no, there's a lobbying group for the interests of tech companies and all the

57:22rest of it. But that is really why you need somebody, and it's a very

57:26rare personality, who's really kind of just tapped in and doesn't live in a bubble.

57:32And their default doesn't come from a bygone era of politics.

57:38politics. And that's what a lot of them, even those who are younger, and maybe

57:42were children during Reagan time, kind of default to.

57:46And I like all of them, but some of them are just they just they

57:49live in, they live in a bubble, and they're very isolated.

57:52So I think that's what's happening.

57:53But anyway, thank you so much for listening to this podcast.

57:55If you like this podcast, please like and subscribe on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

57:58we get this podcast, and I will talk to you guys on Monday.

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