#2467 - Michael Pollan
3/12/2026147 mintranscribing
0:08Mr. Paul, so good to see you again.
0:08Mr. Paul, so good to see you again.
0:08Mr. Paul, so good to see you again.
0:08Mr. Paul, so good to see you again.
0:08Mr. Paul, so good to see you again.
0:14Hey, good to be back.
0:14Hey, good to be back.
0:14Hey, good to be back.
0:14Hey, good to be back.
0:14Hey, good to be back.
0:16Consciousness. So, um, this new book, what inspired it?
0:16Consciousness. So, um, this new book, what inspired it?
0:16Consciousness. So, um, this new book, what inspired it?
0:16Consciousness. So, um, this new book, what inspired it?
0:16Consciousness. So, um, this new book, what inspired it?
0:20What, what got you to, I mean, you, you've kind of explored consciousness a little
0:20What, what got you to, I mean, you, you've kind of explored consciousness a little
0:20What, what got you to, I mean, you, you've kind of explored consciousness a little
0:20What, what got you to, I mean, you, you've kind of explored consciousness a little
0:20What, what got you to, I mean, you, you've kind of explored consciousness a little
0:24bit with your psychedelic book, how to change your mind.
0:24bit with your psychedelic book, how to change your mind.
0:24bit with your psychedelic book, how to change your mind.
0:24bit with your psychedelic book, how to change your mind.
0:24bit with your psychedelic book, how to change your mind.
0:27Hmm. Well, actually this book was inspired by the research I did for that book.
0:27Hmm. Well, actually this book was inspired by the research I did for that book.
0:27Hmm. Well, actually this book was inspired by the research I did for that book.
0:27Hmm. Well, actually this book was inspired by the research I did for that book.
0:27Hmm. Well, actually this book was inspired by the research I did for that book.
0:32Um, as you know, I had several, uh, research trips.
0:32Um, as you know, I had several, uh, research trips.
0:32Um, as you know, I had several, uh, research trips.
0:32Um, as you know, I had several, uh, research trips.
0:32Um, as you know, I had several, uh, research trips.
0:37Um, and, uh, do you do air quotes when you say research?
0:37Um, and, uh, do you do air quotes when you say research?
0:37Um, and, uh, do you do air quotes when you say research?
0:37Um, and, uh, do you do air quotes when you say research?
0:37Um, and, uh, do you do air quotes when you say research?
0:40Yes. And I, um, and two things happened that were really interesting.
0:40Yes. And I, um, and two things happened that were really interesting.
0:40Yes. And I, um, and two things happened that were really interesting.
0:40Yes. And I, um, and two things happened that were really interesting.
0:40Yes. And I, um, and two things happened that were really interesting.
0:47One is there's something about psychedelics that makes you think about consciousness.
0:47One is there's something about psychedelics that makes you think about consciousness.
0:47One is there's something about psychedelics that makes you think about consciousness.
0:47One is there's something about psychedelics that makes you think about consciousness.
0:47One is there's something about psychedelics that makes you think about consciousness.
0:54It, you know, it's like smudging the windscreen, the windshield that you normally is perfectly
0:54It, you know, it's like smudging the windscreen, the windshield that you normally is perfectly
0:54It, you know, it's like smudging the windscreen, the windshield that you normally is perfectly
0:54It, you know, it's like smudging the windscreen, the windshield that you normally is perfectly
0:54It, you know, it's like smudging the windscreen, the windshield that you normally is perfectly
1:00transparent and you see the world through.
1:00transparent and you see the world through.
1:00transparent and you see the world through.
1:00transparent and you see the world through.
1:00transparent and you see the world through.
1:02Suddenly it's like different. And you realize there's something between me and the world and
1:02Suddenly it's like different. And you realize there's something between me and the world and
1:02Suddenly it's like different. And you realize there's something between me and the world and
1:02Suddenly it's like different. And you realize there's something between me and the world and
1:02Suddenly it's like different. And you realize there's something between me and the world and
1:07what is it? And that's consciousness.
1:07what is it? And that's consciousness.
1:07what is it? And that's consciousness.
1:07what is it? And that's consciousness.
1:07what is it? And that's consciousness.
1:09And so like a lot of people have, who've done psychedelics, you start wondering about
1:09And so like a lot of people have, who've done psychedelics, you start wondering about
1:09And so like a lot of people have, who've done psychedelics, you start wondering about
1:09And so like a lot of people have, who've done psychedelics, you start wondering about
1:09And so like a lot of people have, who've done psychedelics, you start wondering about
1:15this mystery. Why is it this way?
1:15this mystery. Why is it this way?
1:15this mystery. Why is it this way?
1:15this mystery. Why is it this way?
1:15this mystery. Why is it this way?
1:17Not that way. Okay. So that was one experience.
1:17Not that way. Okay. So that was one experience.
1:17Not that way. Okay. So that was one experience.
1:17Not that way. Okay. So that was one experience.
1:17Not that way. Okay. So that was one experience.
1:20The other was I had an experience in my garden in Connecticut where we have
1:20The other was I had an experience in my garden in Connecticut where we have
1:20The other was I had an experience in my garden in Connecticut where we have
1:20The other was I had an experience in my garden in Connecticut where we have
1:20The other was I had an experience in my garden in Connecticut where we have
1:23a house of, um, uh, walking through my garden and getting the powerful impression that
1:23a house of, um, uh, walking through my garden and getting the powerful impression that
1:23a house of, um, uh, walking through my garden and getting the powerful impression that
1:23a house of, um, uh, walking through my garden and getting the powerful impression that
1:23a house of, um, uh, walking through my garden and getting the powerful impression that
1:29the plants were conscious and that these, I remember these, this particular, it was a
1:29the plants were conscious and that these, I remember these, this particular, it was a
1:29the plants were conscious and that these, I remember these, this particular, it was a
1:29the plants were conscious and that these, I remember these, this particular, it was a
1:29the plants were conscious and that these, I remember these, this particular, it was a
1:34plume poppy or several plume poppies.
1:34plume poppy or several plume poppies.
1:34plume poppy or several plume poppies.
1:34plume poppy or several plume poppies.
1:34plume poppy or several plume poppies.
1:37And they were like returning my gaze.
1:37And they were like returning my gaze.
1:37And they were like returning my gaze.
1:37And they were like returning my gaze.
1:37And they were like returning my gaze.
1:39They were very benevolent. They were, you know, putting out positive vibes, but like they
1:39They were very benevolent. They were, you know, putting out positive vibes, but like they
1:39They were very benevolent. They were, you know, putting out positive vibes, but like they
1:39They were very benevolent. They were, you know, putting out positive vibes, but like they
1:39They were very benevolent. They were, you know, putting out positive vibes, but like they
1:46were conscious, much more alive than they'd ever been.
1:46were conscious, much more alive than they'd ever been.
1:46were conscious, much more alive than they'd ever been.
1:46were conscious, much more alive than they'd ever been.
1:46were conscious, much more alive than they'd ever been.
1:50And like a lot of insights on psychedelics, I didn't know what to do with
1:50And like a lot of insights on psychedelics, I didn't know what to do with
1:50And like a lot of insights on psychedelics, I didn't know what to do with
1:50And like a lot of insights on psychedelics, I didn't know what to do with
1:50And like a lot of insights on psychedelics, I didn't know what to do with
1:53it. Like, is it true?
1:53it. Like, is it true?
1:53it. Like, is it true?
1:53it. Like, is it true?
1:53it. Like, is it true?
1:54Is it just a drug thing?
1:54Is it just a drug thing?
1:54Is it just a drug thing?
1:54Is it just a drug thing?
1:54Is it just a drug thing?
1:56You know, what is it?
1:56You know, what is it?
1:56You know, what is it?
1:56You know, what is it?
1:56You know, what is it?
1:57Um, but I decided it'd be interesting to find out.
1:57Um, but I decided it'd be interesting to find out.
1:57Um, but I decided it'd be interesting to find out.
1:57Um, but I decided it'd be interesting to find out.
1:57Um, but I decided it'd be interesting to find out.
2:00And, uh, I consulted a couple of people, scientists and said, what do you do
2:00And, uh, I consulted a couple of people, scientists and said, what do you do
2:00And, uh, I consulted a couple of people, scientists and said, what do you do
2:00And, uh, I consulted a couple of people, scientists and said, what do you do
2:00And, uh, I consulted a couple of people, scientists and said, what do you do
2:04with an insight like that?
2:04with an insight like that?
2:04with an insight like that?
2:04with an insight like that?
2:04with an insight like that?
2:06And they said, well, you test it against other ways of knowing, including scientific ways
2:06And they said, well, you test it against other ways of knowing, including scientific ways
2:06And they said, well, you test it against other ways of knowing, including scientific ways
2:06And they said, well, you test it against other ways of knowing, including scientific ways
2:06And they said, well, you test it against other ways of knowing, including scientific ways
2:10of knowing. And that led me down this, uh, really interesting path, uh, exploring plant
2:10of knowing. And that led me down this, uh, really interesting path, uh, exploring plant
2:10of knowing. And that led me down this, uh, really interesting path, uh, exploring plant
2:10of knowing. And that led me down this, uh, really interesting path, uh, exploring plant
2:10of knowing. And that led me down this, uh, really interesting path, uh, exploring plant
2:16intelligence and plant consciousness. So basically, yeah, the book grew out of the psychedelic experiences
2:16intelligence and plant consciousness. So basically, yeah, the book grew out of the psychedelic experiences
2:16intelligence and plant consciousness. So basically, yeah, the book grew out of the psychedelic experiences
2:16intelligence and plant consciousness. So basically, yeah, the book grew out of the psychedelic experiences
2:16intelligence and plant consciousness. So basically, yeah, the book grew out of the psychedelic experiences
2:23and some meditation experience. Meditation also has a way of making you like hyper aware
2:23and some meditation experience. Meditation also has a way of making you like hyper aware
2:23and some meditation experience. Meditation also has a way of making you like hyper aware
2:23and some meditation experience. Meditation also has a way of making you like hyper aware
2:23and some meditation experience. Meditation also has a way of making you like hyper aware
2:28of how strange your thoughts are, where are they coming from?
2:28of how strange your thoughts are, where are they coming from?
2:28of how strange your thoughts are, where are they coming from?
2:28of how strange your thoughts are, where are they coming from?
2:28of how strange your thoughts are, where are they coming from?
2:31Who's thinking them? So there's a bunch of different schools of thought when it comes
2:31Who's thinking them? So there's a bunch of different schools of thought when it comes
2:31Who's thinking them? So there's a bunch of different schools of thought when it comes
2:31Who's thinking them? So there's a bunch of different schools of thought when it comes
2:31Who's thinking them? So there's a bunch of different schools of thought when it comes
2:34to consciousness, right? There's one, like the Rupert Sheldrake thing, sort of everything has consciousness
2:34to consciousness, right? There's one, like the Rupert Sheldrake thing, sort of everything has consciousness
2:34to consciousness, right? There's one, like the Rupert Sheldrake thing, sort of everything has consciousness
2:34to consciousness, right? There's one, like the Rupert Sheldrake thing, sort of everything has consciousness
2:34to consciousness, right? There's one, like the Rupert Sheldrake thing, sort of everything has consciousness
2:39and there's the sort of rational scientists that believe it exists somewhere in the mind.
2:39and there's the sort of rational scientists that believe it exists somewhere in the mind.
2:39and there's the sort of rational scientists that believe it exists somewhere in the mind.
2:39and there's the sort of rational scientists that believe it exists somewhere in the mind.
2:39and there's the sort of rational scientists that believe it exists somewhere in the mind.
2:49I don't know. In the brain.
2:49I don't know. In the brain.
2:49I don't know. In the brain.
2:49I don't know. In the brain.
2:49I don't know. In the brain.
2:50Yeah. In the brain. Excuse me.
2:50Yeah. In the brain. Excuse me.
2:50Yeah. In the brain. Excuse me.
2:50Yeah. In the brain. Excuse me.
2:50Yeah. In the brain. Excuse me.
2:51And then there's people that think that the brain is essentially just an antenna.
2:51And then there's people that think that the brain is essentially just an antenna.
2:51And then there's people that think that the brain is essentially just an antenna.
2:51And then there's people that think that the brain is essentially just an antenna.
2:51And then there's people that think that the brain is essentially just an antenna.
2:56Right. That's tuning in to the greater consciousness of whatever it is that's out there.
2:56Right. That's tuning in to the greater consciousness of whatever it is that's out there.
2:56Right. That's tuning in to the greater consciousness of whatever it is that's out there.
2:56Right. That's tuning in to the greater consciousness of whatever it is that's out there.
2:56Right. That's tuning in to the greater consciousness of whatever it is that's out there.
3:01Yeah. Do you have any one of them that you hold?
3:01Yeah. Do you have any one of them that you hold?
3:01Yeah. Do you have any one of them that you hold?
3:01Yeah. Do you have any one of them that you hold?
3:01Yeah. Do you have any one of them that you hold?
3:04I don't. They're all equally plausible.
3:04I don't. They're all equally plausible.
3:04I don't. They're all equally plausible.
3:04I don't. They're all equally plausible.
3:04I don't. They're all equally plausible.
3:08I, you know, I went into the experience assuming, because this is what most scientists
3:08I, you know, I went into the experience assuming, because this is what most scientists
3:08I, you know, I went into the experience assuming, because this is what most scientists
3:08I, you know, I went into the experience assuming, because this is what most scientists
3:08I, you know, I went into the experience assuming, because this is what most scientists
3:12assume, that somehow a certain arrangement of neurons in the brain generates consciousness, you know,
3:12assume, that somehow a certain arrangement of neurons in the brain generates consciousness, you know,
3:12assume, that somehow a certain arrangement of neurons in the brain generates consciousness, you know,
3:12assume, that somehow a certain arrangement of neurons in the brain generates consciousness, you know,
3:12assume, that somehow a certain arrangement of neurons in the brain generates consciousness, you know,
3:19subjective experience, but no one's been able to show that.
3:19subjective experience, but no one's been able to show that.
3:19subjective experience, but no one's been able to show that.
3:19subjective experience, but no one's been able to show that.
3:19subjective experience, but no one's been able to show that.
3:22We've gotten nowhere in that effort to, you know, we can, we, we might correlate
3:22We've gotten nowhere in that effort to, you know, we can, we, we might correlate
3:22We've gotten nowhere in that effort to, you know, we can, we, we might correlate
3:22We've gotten nowhere in that effort to, you know, we can, we, we might correlate
3:22We've gotten nowhere in that effort to, you know, we can, we, we might correlate
3:27certain parts of the brain with consciousness, but we don't understand how three pounds of
3:27certain parts of the brain with consciousness, but we don't understand how three pounds of
3:27certain parts of the brain with consciousness, but we don't understand how three pounds of
3:27certain parts of the brain with consciousness, but we don't understand how three pounds of
3:27certain parts of the brain with consciousness, but we don't understand how three pounds of
3:33matter could generate the feeling of being you.
3:33matter could generate the feeling of being you.
3:33matter could generate the feeling of being you.
3:33matter could generate the feeling of being you.
3:33matter could generate the feeling of being you.
3:36You talk about it in your book where the two gentlemen who had the bat.
3:36You talk about it in your book where the two gentlemen who had the bat.
3:36You talk about it in your book where the two gentlemen who had the bat.
3:36You talk about it in your book where the two gentlemen who had the bat.
3:36You talk about it in your book where the two gentlemen who had the bat.
3:39Yeah. Yeah. Um, that was, uh, Christophe Koch, who's a, uh, a great brain scientist
3:39Yeah. Yeah. Um, that was, uh, Christophe Koch, who's a, uh, a great brain scientist
3:39Yeah. Yeah. Um, that was, uh, Christophe Koch, who's a, uh, a great brain scientist
3:39Yeah. Yeah. Um, that was, uh, Christophe Koch, who's a, uh, a great brain scientist
3:39Yeah. Yeah. Um, that was, uh, Christophe Koch, who's a, uh, a great brain scientist
3:45and David Chalmers, who's a philosopher.
3:45and David Chalmers, who's a philosopher.
3:45and David Chalmers, who's a philosopher.
3:45and David Chalmers, who's a philosopher.
3:45and David Chalmers, who's a philosopher.
3:49And, uh, this goes back to like in the early nineties, they were getting drunk
3:49And, uh, this goes back to like in the early nineties, they were getting drunk
3:49And, uh, this goes back to like in the early nineties, they were getting drunk
3:49And, uh, this goes back to like in the early nineties, they were getting drunk
3:49And, uh, this goes back to like in the early nineties, they were getting drunk
3:53in a bar in Bremen, Germany.
3:53in a bar in Bremen, Germany.
3:53in a bar in Bremen, Germany.
3:53in a bar in Bremen, Germany.
3:53in a bar in Bremen, Germany.
3:56And, uh, Christophe Koch had, had really was at the beginning of the modern scientific
3:56And, uh, Christophe Koch had, had really was at the beginning of the modern scientific
3:56And, uh, Christophe Koch had, had really was at the beginning of the modern scientific
3:56And, uh, Christophe Koch had, had really was at the beginning of the modern scientific
3:56And, uh, Christophe Koch had, had really was at the beginning of the modern scientific
4:01exploration of consciousness. And he was working with Francis Crick, who had just come off
4:01exploration of consciousness. And he was working with Francis Crick, who had just come off
4:01exploration of consciousness. And he was working with Francis Crick, who had just come off
4:01exploration of consciousness. And he was working with Francis Crick, who had just come off
4:01exploration of consciousness. And he was working with Francis Crick, who had just come off
4:06of a Nobel prize for the discovery of DNA.
4:06of a Nobel prize for the discovery of DNA.
4:06of a Nobel prize for the discovery of DNA.
4:06of a Nobel prize for the discovery of DNA.
4:06of a Nobel prize for the discovery of DNA.
4:09And Crick, who is like the most famous scientist in the world at the time,
4:09And Crick, who is like the most famous scientist in the world at the time,
4:09And Crick, who is like the most famous scientist in the world at the time,
4:09And Crick, who is like the most famous scientist in the world at the time,
4:09And Crick, who is like the most famous scientist in the world at the time,
4:13um, thought, well, the same kind of reductive science that discovered the double helix DNA
4:13um, thought, well, the same kind of reductive science that discovered the double helix DNA
4:13um, thought, well, the same kind of reductive science that discovered the double helix DNA
4:13um, thought, well, the same kind of reductive science that discovered the double helix DNA
4:13um, thought, well, the same kind of reductive science that discovered the double helix DNA
4:20and explained heredity, um, I'm going to do that for consciousness.
4:20and explained heredity, um, I'm going to do that for consciousness.
4:20and explained heredity, um, I'm going to do that for consciousness.
4:20and explained heredity, um, I'm going to do that for consciousness.
4:20and explained heredity, um, I'm going to do that for consciousness.
4:25I mean, he's a very arrogant man.
4:25I mean, he's a very arrogant man.
4:25I mean, he's a very arrogant man.
4:25I mean, he's a very arrogant man.
4:25I mean, he's a very arrogant man.
4:26And he, he thought of just, you know, no problem.
4:26And he, he thought of just, you know, no problem.
4:26And he, he thought of just, you know, no problem.
4:26And he, he thought of just, you know, no problem.
4:26And he, he thought of just, you know, no problem.
4:29Um, and Crick was kind of his sidekick.
4:29Um, and Crick was kind of his sidekick.
4:29Um, and Crick was kind of his sidekick.
4:29Um, and Crick was kind of his sidekick.
4:29Um, and Crick was kind of his sidekick.
4:32I'm sorry, uh, Koch was his sidekick.
4:32I'm sorry, uh, Koch was his sidekick.
4:32I'm sorry, uh, Koch was his sidekick.
4:32I'm sorry, uh, Koch was his sidekick.
4:32I'm sorry, uh, Koch was his sidekick.
4:35And so Koch, who shared that kind of confidence made this bet with Chalmers that
4:35And so Koch, who shared that kind of confidence made this bet with Chalmers that
4:35And so Koch, who shared that kind of confidence made this bet with Chalmers that
4:35And so Koch, who shared that kind of confidence made this bet with Chalmers that
4:35And so Koch, who shared that kind of confidence made this bet with Chalmers that
4:40they would find the neural correlates, the parts of the brain that are responsible for
4:40they would find the neural correlates, the parts of the brain that are responsible for
4:40they would find the neural correlates, the parts of the brain that are responsible for
4:40they would find the neural correlates, the parts of the brain that are responsible for
4:40they would find the neural correlates, the parts of the brain that are responsible for
4:44consciousness within 25 years. That was 25 years, 27 years ago now.
4:44consciousness within 25 years. That was 25 years, 27 years ago now.
4:44consciousness within 25 years. That was 25 years, 27 years ago now.
4:44consciousness within 25 years. That was 25 years, 27 years ago now.
4:44consciousness within 25 years. That was 25 years, 27 years ago now.
4:50And, uh, Chalmers won the bet.
4:50And, uh, Chalmers won the bet.
4:50And, uh, Chalmers won the bet.
4:50And, uh, Chalmers won the bet.
4:50And, uh, Chalmers won the bet.
4:52Chalmers is famous for, um, coining the term, the hard problem to, you know, to,
4:52Chalmers is famous for, um, coining the term, the hard problem to, you know, to,
4:52Chalmers is famous for, um, coining the term, the hard problem to, you know, to,
4:52Chalmers is famous for, um, coining the term, the hard problem to, you know, to,
4:52Chalmers is famous for, um, coining the term, the hard problem to, you know, to,
4:59um, describe the whole effort to figure out consciousness.
4:59um, describe the whole effort to figure out consciousness.
4:59um, describe the whole effort to figure out consciousness.
4:59um, describe the whole effort to figure out consciousness.
4:59um, describe the whole effort to figure out consciousness.
5:03And it's a hard problem for a lot of reasons.
5:03And it's a hard problem for a lot of reasons.
5:03And it's a hard problem for a lot of reasons.
5:03And it's a hard problem for a lot of reasons.
5:03And it's a hard problem for a lot of reasons.
5:06Um, I mean, it is one of the biggest mysteries in the universe.
5:06Um, I mean, it is one of the biggest mysteries in the universe.
5:06Um, I mean, it is one of the biggest mysteries in the universe.
5:06Um, I mean, it is one of the biggest mysteries in the universe.
5:06Um, I mean, it is one of the biggest mysteries in the universe.
5:09I mean, how consciousness came to be, did it evolve?
5:09I mean, how consciousness came to be, did it evolve?
5:09I mean, how consciousness came to be, did it evolve?
5:09I mean, how consciousness came to be, did it evolve?
5:09I mean, how consciousness came to be, did it evolve?
5:12Was it always here? Um, but he, his, his point was that our science is
5:12Was it always here? Um, but he, his, his point was that our science is
5:12Was it always here? Um, but he, his, his point was that our science is
5:12Was it always here? Um, but he, his, his point was that our science is
5:12Was it always here? Um, but he, his, his point was that our science is
5:20based on third person objective quantifiable measurements and consciousness is fundamentally a subjective first person
5:20based on third person objective quantifiable measurements and consciousness is fundamentally a subjective first person
5:20based on third person objective quantifiable measurements and consciousness is fundamentally a subjective first person
5:20based on third person objective quantifiable measurements and consciousness is fundamentally a subjective first person
5:20based on third person objective quantifiable measurements and consciousness is fundamentally a subjective first person
5:28experience. So how does that, those tools reach in and say anything of value about
5:28experience. So how does that, those tools reach in and say anything of value about
5:28experience. So how does that, those tools reach in and say anything of value about
5:28experience. So how does that, those tools reach in and say anything of value about
5:28experience. So how does that, those tools reach in and say anything of value about
5:34consciousness? So he said, you know, there are easy problems of consciousness we can figure
5:34consciousness? So he said, you know, there are easy problems of consciousness we can figure
5:34consciousness? So he said, you know, there are easy problems of consciousness we can figure
5:34consciousness? So he said, you know, there are easy problems of consciousness we can figure
5:34consciousness? So he said, you know, there are easy problems of consciousness we can figure
5:38out like perception, um, emotion, things like that.
5:38out like perception, um, emotion, things like that.
5:38out like perception, um, emotion, things like that.
5:38out like perception, um, emotion, things like that.
5:38out like perception, um, emotion, things like that.
5:42But, but there is this hard problem.
5:42But, but there is this hard problem.
5:42But, but there is this hard problem.
5:42But, but there is this hard problem.
5:42But, but there is this hard problem.
5:44How do you get from matter to mind?
5:44How do you get from matter to mind?
5:44How do you get from matter to mind?
5:44How do you get from matter to mind?
5:44How do you get from matter to mind?
5:47And, uh, he won the bet.
5:47And, uh, he won the bet.
5:47And, uh, he won the bet.
5:47And, uh, he won the bet.
5:47And, uh, he won the bet.
5:50There was a ceremony I went to a couple of years ago at, uh, NYU
5:50There was a ceremony I went to a couple of years ago at, uh, NYU
5:50There was a ceremony I went to a couple of years ago at, uh, NYU
5:50There was a ceremony I went to a couple of years ago at, uh, NYU
5:50There was a ceremony I went to a couple of years ago at, uh, NYU
5:54and, uh, uh, Koch presented Chalmers with a case of very fine, uh, Madera wine
5:54and, uh, uh, Koch presented Chalmers with a case of very fine, uh, Madera wine
5:54and, uh, uh, Koch presented Chalmers with a case of very fine, uh, Madera wine
5:54and, uh, uh, Koch presented Chalmers with a case of very fine, uh, Madera wine
5:54and, uh, uh, Koch presented Chalmers with a case of very fine, uh, Madera wine
6:00and, uh, and renewed the bet.
6:00and, uh, and renewed the bet.
6:00and, uh, and renewed the bet.
6:00and, uh, and renewed the bet.
6:00and, uh, and renewed the bet.
6:03He said, all right, in another 25 years, that's optimistic.
6:03He said, all right, in another 25 years, that's optimistic.
6:03He said, all right, in another 25 years, that's optimistic.
6:03He said, all right, in another 25 years, that's optimistic.
6:03He said, all right, in another 25 years, that's optimistic.
6:07How old are these gentlemen?
6:07How old are these gentlemen?
6:07How old are these gentlemen?
6:07How old are these gentlemen?
6:07How old are these gentlemen?
6:08Uh, Koch is in his Late 60s, so we'll see if he's around for this,
6:08Uh, Koch is in his Late 60s, so we'll see if he's around for this,
6:08Uh, Koch is in his Late 60s, so we'll see if he's around for this,
6:08Uh, Koch is in his Late 60s, so we'll see if he's around for this,
6:08Uh, Koch is in his Late 60s, so we'll see if he's around for this,
6:12but Chalmers is a little bit younger.
6:12but Chalmers is a little bit younger.
6:12but Chalmers is a little bit younger.
6:12but Chalmers is a little bit younger.
6:12but Chalmers is a little bit younger.
6:17It's such an interesting thought because we know that the mind contains, if damaged, right?
6:17It's such an interesting thought because we know that the mind contains, if damaged, right?
6:17It's such an interesting thought because we know that the mind contains, if damaged, right?
6:17It's such an interesting thought because we know that the mind contains, if damaged, right?
6:17It's such an interesting thought because we know that the mind contains, if damaged, right?
6:27We know that there's certain aspects, there's certain parts of the mind where, like lobotomies,
6:27We know that there's certain aspects, there's certain parts of the mind where, like lobotomies,
6:27We know that there's certain aspects, there's certain parts of the mind where, like lobotomies,
6:27We know that there's certain aspects, there's certain parts of the mind where, like lobotomies,
6:27We know that there's certain aspects, there's certain parts of the mind where, like lobotomies,
6:31for instance, we know that if we disturb it, it radically affects behavior.
6:31for instance, we know that if we disturb it, it radically affects behavior.
6:31for instance, we know that if we disturb it, it radically affects behavior.
6:31for instance, we know that if we disturb it, it radically affects behavior.
6:31for instance, we know that if we disturb it, it radically affects behavior.
6:35We know that there's parts of the mind that you can stimulate that can actually
6:35We know that there's parts of the mind that you can stimulate that can actually
6:35We know that there's parts of the mind that you can stimulate that can actually
6:35We know that there's parts of the mind that you can stimulate that can actually
6:35We know that there's parts of the mind that you can stimulate that can actually
6:40recall memories, right? There's some weird stuff going on there.
6:40recall memories, right? There's some weird stuff going on there.
6:40recall memories, right? There's some weird stuff going on there.
6:40recall memories, right? There's some weird stuff going on there.
6:40recall memories, right? There's some weird stuff going on there.
6:44So we know it's somehow or another at least functionally connected to consciousness.
6:44So we know it's somehow or another at least functionally connected to consciousness.
6:44So we know it's somehow or another at least functionally connected to consciousness.
6:44So we know it's somehow or another at least functionally connected to consciousness.
6:44So we know it's somehow or another at least functionally connected to consciousness.
6:48Oh, yeah. It's definitely a relationship.
6:48Oh, yeah. It's definitely a relationship.
6:48Oh, yeah. It's definitely a relationship.
6:48Oh, yeah. It's definitely a relationship.
6:48Oh, yeah. It's definitely a relationship.
6:50But if it's generating consciousness, that's one thing.
6:50But if it's generating consciousness, that's one thing.
6:50But if it's generating consciousness, that's one thing.
6:50But if it's generating consciousness, that's one thing.
6:50But if it's generating consciousness, that's one thing.
6:54But it could be, as you said earlier, it could be receiving consciousness.
6:54But it could be, as you said earlier, it could be receiving consciousness.
6:54But it could be, as you said earlier, it could be receiving consciousness.
6:54But it could be, as you said earlier, it could be receiving consciousness.
6:54But it could be, as you said earlier, it could be receiving consciousness.
6:57Right. And the same things would hold true, that if you damage parts of the
6:57Right. And the same things would hold true, that if you damage parts of the
6:57Right. And the same things would hold true, that if you damage parts of the
6:57Right. And the same things would hold true, that if you damage parts of the
6:57Right. And the same things would hold true, that if you damage parts of the
7:00brain. Right. Sure. Like a bad radio.
7:00brain. Right. Sure. Like a bad radio.
7:00brain. Right. Sure. Like a bad radio.
7:00brain. Right. Sure. Like a bad radio.
7:00brain. Right. Sure. Like a bad radio.
7:03Yeah, damage to television. The signal's still out there.
7:03Yeah, damage to television. The signal's still out there.
7:03Yeah, damage to television. The signal's still out there.
7:03Yeah, damage to television. The signal's still out there.
7:03Yeah, damage to television. The signal's still out there.
7:06Right. Yeah. So that doesn't determine the truth of either theory.
7:06Right. Yeah. So that doesn't determine the truth of either theory.
7:06Right. Yeah. So that doesn't determine the truth of either theory.
7:06Right. Yeah. So that doesn't determine the truth of either theory.
7:06Right. Yeah. So that doesn't determine the truth of either theory.
7:12And then the other one is panpsychism, which you were alluding to.
7:12And then the other one is panpsychism, which you were alluding to.
7:12And then the other one is panpsychism, which you were alluding to.
7:12And then the other one is panpsychism, which you were alluding to.
7:12And then the other one is panpsychism, which you were alluding to.
7:16I don't know if that's Rupert Sheldrake.
7:16I don't know if that's Rupert Sheldrake.
7:16I don't know if that's Rupert Sheldrake.
7:16I don't know if that's Rupert Sheldrake.
7:16I don't know if that's Rupert Sheldrake.
7:18I think he would believe more in the field of consciousness.
7:18I think he would believe more in the field of consciousness.
7:18I think he would believe more in the field of consciousness.
7:18I think he would believe more in the field of consciousness.
7:18I think he would believe more in the field of consciousness.
7:21Yeah, right. He was a morphic resonance guy.
7:21Yeah, right. He was a morphic resonance guy.
7:21Yeah, right. He was a morphic resonance guy.
7:21Yeah, right. He was a morphic resonance guy.
7:21Yeah, right. He was a morphic resonance guy.
7:24But I think he also subscribed to this idea that things contain consciousness.
7:24But I think he also subscribed to this idea that things contain consciousness.
7:24But I think he also subscribed to this idea that things contain consciousness.
7:24But I think he also subscribed to this idea that things contain consciousness.
7:24But I think he also subscribed to this idea that things contain consciousness.
7:28It's not his, but you know what I mean.
7:28It's not his, but you know what I mean.
7:28It's not his, but you know what I mean.
7:28It's not his, but you know what I mean.
7:28It's not his, but you know what I mean.
7:30Well, it's pretty universal, right?
7:30Well, it's pretty universal, right?
7:30Well, it's pretty universal, right?
7:30Well, it's pretty universal, right?
7:30Well, it's pretty universal, right?
7:33There's a lot of people that have subscribed to this idea that everything has consciousness.
7:33There's a lot of people that have subscribed to this idea that everything has consciousness.
7:33There's a lot of people that have subscribed to this idea that everything has consciousness.
7:33There's a lot of people that have subscribed to this idea that everything has consciousness.
7:33There's a lot of people that have subscribed to this idea that everything has consciousness.
7:36Yeah, that even the particles that this table is made of have some easy little
7:36Yeah, that even the particles that this table is made of have some easy little
7:36Yeah, that even the particles that this table is made of have some easy little
7:36Yeah, that even the particles that this table is made of have some easy little
7:36Yeah, that even the particles that this table is made of have some easy little
7:41bit of psyche. And the challenge there is, so that solves the problem of how
7:41bit of psyche. And the challenge there is, so that solves the problem of how
7:41bit of psyche. And the challenge there is, so that solves the problem of how
7:41bit of psyche. And the challenge there is, so that solves the problem of how
7:41bit of psyche. And the challenge there is, so that solves the problem of how
7:46did it evolve? It didn't evolve.
7:46did it evolve? It didn't evolve.
7:46did it evolve? It didn't evolve.
7:46did it evolve? It didn't evolve.
7:46did it evolve? It didn't evolve.
7:48It's always here. But then you have this other problem, like, well, how do you
7:48It's always here. But then you have this other problem, like, well, how do you
7:48It's always here. But then you have this other problem, like, well, how do you
7:48It's always here. But then you have this other problem, like, well, how do you
7:48It's always here. But then you have this other problem, like, well, how do you
7:52take these? If every one of our cells is made of particles that are conscious,
7:52take these? If every one of our cells is made of particles that are conscious,
7:52take these? If every one of our cells is made of particles that are conscious,
7:52take these? If every one of our cells is made of particles that are conscious,
7:52take these? If every one of our cells is made of particles that are conscious,
7:56how do you combine them in such a way that you get the sort of
7:56how do you combine them in such a way that you get the sort of
7:56how do you combine them in such a way that you get the sort of
7:56how do you combine them in such a way that you get the sort of
7:56how do you combine them in such a way that you get the sort of
7:59consciousness we have? It's called the combination problem.
7:59consciousness we have? It's called the combination problem.
7:59consciousness we have? It's called the combination problem.
7:59consciousness we have? It's called the combination problem.
7:59consciousness we have? It's called the combination problem.
8:02And nobody solved that. It's a really deep mystery.
8:02And nobody solved that. It's a really deep mystery.
8:02And nobody solved that. It's a really deep mystery.
8:02And nobody solved that. It's a really deep mystery.
8:02And nobody solved that. It's a really deep mystery.
8:06And this is an odd book in some ways in that, I don't know if
8:06And this is an odd book in some ways in that, I don't know if
8:06And this is an odd book in some ways in that, I don't know if
8:06And this is an odd book in some ways in that, I don't know if
8:06And this is an odd book in some ways in that, I don't know if
8:11this is very selling, but you'll know less at the end than you do at
8:11this is very selling, but you'll know less at the end than you do at
8:11this is very selling, but you'll know less at the end than you do at
8:11this is very selling, but you'll know less at the end than you do at
8:11this is very selling, but you'll know less at the end than you do at
8:14the beginning. But it's a fun ride.
8:14the beginning. But it's a fun ride.
8:14the beginning. But it's a fun ride.
8:14the beginning. But it's a fun ride.
8:14the beginning. But it's a fun ride.
8:18Oh, I think it's a great ride.
8:18Oh, I think it's a great ride.
8:18Oh, I think it's a great ride.
8:18Oh, I think it's a great ride.
8:18Oh, I think it's a great ride.
8:19It was a great ride for me.
8:19It was a great ride for me.
8:19It was a great ride for me.
8:19It was a great ride for me.
8:19It was a great ride for me.
8:20I learned so much. Well, it's a fun ride to consider these things that no
8:20I learned so much. Well, it's a fun ride to consider these things that no
8:20I learned so much. Well, it's a fun ride to consider these things that no
8:20I learned so much. Well, it's a fun ride to consider these things that no
8:20I learned so much. Well, it's a fun ride to consider these things that no
8:24one can really figure out or not yet.
8:24one can really figure out or not yet.
8:24one can really figure out or not yet.
8:24one can really figure out or not yet.
8:24one can really figure out or not yet.
8:26Yeah, and also just to be put in touch with the fact you have this
8:26Yeah, and also just to be put in touch with the fact you have this
8:26Yeah, and also just to be put in touch with the fact you have this
8:26Yeah, and also just to be put in touch with the fact you have this
8:26Yeah, and also just to be put in touch with the fact you have this
8:30marvel going on in your head all the time.
8:30marvel going on in your head all the time.
8:30marvel going on in your head all the time.
8:30marvel going on in your head all the time.
8:30marvel going on in your head all the time.
8:32You have a voice in your head.
8:32You have a voice in your head.
8:32You have a voice in your head.
8:32You have a voice in your head.
8:32You have a voice in your head.
8:34You know, we're talking to each other, but you've got another voice going on thinking
8:34You know, we're talking to each other, but you've got another voice going on thinking
8:34You know, we're talking to each other, but you've got another voice going on thinking
8:34You know, we're talking to each other, but you've got another voice going on thinking
8:34You know, we're talking to each other, but you've got another voice going on thinking
8:37what you're going to ask, you know, what the next question is, maybe what you're
8:37what you're going to ask, you know, what the next question is, maybe what you're
8:37what you're going to ask, you know, what the next question is, maybe what you're
8:37what you're going to ask, you know, what the next question is, maybe what you're
8:37what you're going to ask, you know, what the next question is, maybe what you're
8:40going to have for dinner.
8:40going to have for dinner.
8:40going to have for dinner.
8:40going to have for dinner.
8:40going to have for dinner.
8:41You know, it's this amazing interior space we have.
8:41You know, it's this amazing interior space we have.
8:41You know, it's this amazing interior space we have.
8:41You know, it's this amazing interior space we have.
8:41You know, it's this amazing interior space we have.
8:46Yeah. And nobody understands how it came to be.
8:46Yeah. And nobody understands how it came to be.
8:46Yeah. And nobody understands how it came to be.
8:46Yeah. And nobody understands how it came to be.
8:46Yeah. And nobody understands how it came to be.
8:49This episode is brought to you by Netflix.
8:49This episode is brought to you by Netflix.
8:49This episode is brought to you by Netflix.
8:49This episode is brought to you by Netflix.
8:49This episode is brought to you by Netflix.
8:52I loved Peaky Blinders. It is one of my absolute favorite shows of all time.
8:52I loved Peaky Blinders. It is one of my absolute favorite shows of all time.
8:52I loved Peaky Blinders. It is one of my absolute favorite shows of all time.
8:52I loved Peaky Blinders. It is one of my absolute favorite shows of all time.
8:52I loved Peaky Blinders. It is one of my absolute favorite shows of all time.
8:57I binge watched the entire season, all the seasons.
8:57I binge watched the entire season, all the seasons.
8:57I binge watched the entire season, all the seasons.
8:57I binge watched the entire season, all the seasons.
8:57I binge watched the entire season, all the seasons.
9:00So when I found out that Netflix was dropping a Peaky Blinders film, I was
9:00So when I found out that Netflix was dropping a Peaky Blinders film, I was
9:00So when I found out that Netflix was dropping a Peaky Blinders film, I was
9:00So when I found out that Netflix was dropping a Peaky Blinders film, I was
9:00So when I found out that Netflix was dropping a Peaky Blinders film, I was
9:04very excited. Tommy Shelby, played by the Academy Award winning Cillian Murphy, of course, must
9:04very excited. Tommy Shelby, played by the Academy Award winning Cillian Murphy, of course, must
9:04very excited. Tommy Shelby, played by the Academy Award winning Cillian Murphy, of course, must
9:04very excited. Tommy Shelby, played by the Academy Award winning Cillian Murphy, of course, must
9:04very excited. Tommy Shelby, played by the Academy Award winning Cillian Murphy, of course, must
9:11face his own demons and choose whether to confront his legacy or burn it to
9:11face his own demons and choose whether to confront his legacy or burn it to
9:11face his own demons and choose whether to confront his legacy or burn it to
9:11face his own demons and choose whether to confront his legacy or burn it to
9:11face his own demons and choose whether to confront his legacy or burn it to
9:15the ground. It's gritty. It's grimy.
9:15the ground. It's gritty. It's grimy.
9:15the ground. It's gritty. It's grimy.
9:15the ground. It's gritty. It's grimy.
9:15the ground. It's gritty. It's grimy.
9:18It's got that epic gangster edge we've been hooked on for six seasons.
9:18It's got that epic gangster edge we've been hooked on for six seasons.
9:18It's got that epic gangster edge we've been hooked on for six seasons.
9:18It's got that epic gangster edge we've been hooked on for six seasons.
9:18It's got that epic gangster edge we've been hooked on for six seasons.
9:22Trust me, you won't want to miss this.
9:22Trust me, you won't want to miss this.
9:22Trust me, you won't want to miss this.
9:22Trust me, you won't want to miss this.
9:22Trust me, you won't want to miss this.
9:24Peaky Blinders, The Immortal Man is in select theaters March 6th and on Netflix March
9:24Peaky Blinders, The Immortal Man is in select theaters March 6th and on Netflix March
9:24Peaky Blinders, The Immortal Man is in select theaters March 6th and on Netflix March
9:24Peaky Blinders, The Immortal Man is in select theaters March 6th and on Netflix March
9:24Peaky Blinders, The Immortal Man is in select theaters March 6th and on Netflix March
9:3120th. Rated R. This episode is brought to you by 8 Sleep.
9:3120th. Rated R. This episode is brought to you by 8 Sleep.
9:3120th. Rated R. This episode is brought to you by 8 Sleep.
9:3120th. Rated R. This episode is brought to you by 8 Sleep.
9:3120th. Rated R. This episode is brought to you by 8 Sleep.
9:36Okay. When it comes to sleep, I've got to have the right temperature dialed in.
9:36Okay. When it comes to sleep, I've got to have the right temperature dialed in.
9:36Okay. When it comes to sleep, I've got to have the right temperature dialed in.
9:36Okay. When it comes to sleep, I've got to have the right temperature dialed in.
9:36Okay. When it comes to sleep, I've got to have the right temperature dialed in.
9:41Depending on the time of year that might be ripping hot.
9:41Depending on the time of year that might be ripping hot.
9:41Depending on the time of year that might be ripping hot.
9:41Depending on the time of year that might be ripping hot.
9:41Depending on the time of year that might be ripping hot.
9:44I'm talking volcanic or igloo levels of iciness.
9:44I'm talking volcanic or igloo levels of iciness.
9:44I'm talking volcanic or igloo levels of iciness.
9:44I'm talking volcanic or igloo levels of iciness.
9:44I'm talking volcanic or igloo levels of iciness.
9:48The point is, I need the temperature to be just right so I can get
9:48The point is, I need the temperature to be just right so I can get
9:48The point is, I need the temperature to be just right so I can get
9:48The point is, I need the temperature to be just right so I can get
9:48The point is, I need the temperature to be just right so I can get
9:52deep sleep. The kind of sleep that drives real recovery.
9:52deep sleep. The kind of sleep that drives real recovery.
9:52deep sleep. The kind of sleep that drives real recovery.
9:52deep sleep. The kind of sleep that drives real recovery.
9:52deep sleep. The kind of sleep that drives real recovery.
9:56And luckily, 8 Sleep is all about giving you the best sleep possible.
9:56And luckily, 8 Sleep is all about giving you the best sleep possible.
9:56And luckily, 8 Sleep is all about giving you the best sleep possible.
9:56And luckily, 8 Sleep is all about giving you the best sleep possible.
9:56And luckily, 8 Sleep is all about giving you the best sleep possible.
10:00Their new Pod 5 Smart Mattress Cover is designed for deep sleep and personalized for
10:00Their new Pod 5 Smart Mattress Cover is designed for deep sleep and personalized for
10:00Their new Pod 5 Smart Mattress Cover is designed for deep sleep and personalized for
10:00Their new Pod 5 Smart Mattress Cover is designed for deep sleep and personalized for
10:00Their new Pod 5 Smart Mattress Cover is designed for deep sleep and personalized for
10:06you. Automatically regulating the temperature on each side of the bed in real time.
10:06you. Automatically regulating the temperature on each side of the bed in real time.
10:06you. Automatically regulating the temperature on each side of the bed in real time.
10:06you. Automatically regulating the temperature on each side of the bed in real time.
10:06you. Automatically regulating the temperature on each side of the bed in real time.
10:12Why? So you and your partner can consistently hit your ideal deep restorative sleep range
10:12Why? So you and your partner can consistently hit your ideal deep restorative sleep range
10:12Why? So you and your partner can consistently hit your ideal deep restorative sleep range
10:12Why? So you and your partner can consistently hit your ideal deep restorative sleep range
10:12Why? So you and your partner can consistently hit your ideal deep restorative sleep range
10:19and wake up feeling truly refreshed and recovered.
10:19and wake up feeling truly refreshed and recovered.
10:19and wake up feeling truly refreshed and recovered.
10:19and wake up feeling truly refreshed and recovered.
10:19and wake up feeling truly refreshed and recovered.
10:22Use my code ROGAN at 8sleep .com slash ROGAN for up to $350 off the
10:22Use my code ROGAN at 8sleep .com slash ROGAN for up to $350 off the
10:22Use my code ROGAN at 8sleep .com slash ROGAN for up to $350 off the
10:22Use my code ROGAN at 8sleep .com slash ROGAN for up to $350 off the
10:22Use my code ROGAN at 8sleep .com slash ROGAN for up to $350 off the
10:29Pod 5 Ultra. The best part is that you get 30 days to try it
10:29Pod 5 Ultra. The best part is that you get 30 days to try it
10:29Pod 5 Ultra. The best part is that you get 30 days to try it
10:29Pod 5 Ultra. The best part is that you get 30 days to try it
10:29Pod 5 Ultra. The best part is that you get 30 days to try it
10:34at home and return it if you don't like it.
10:34at home and return it if you don't like it.
10:34at home and return it if you don't like it.
10:34at home and return it if you don't like it.
10:34at home and return it if you don't like it.
10:36But I've got a feeling your body will love your investment in better sleep.
10:36But I've got a feeling your body will love your investment in better sleep.
10:36But I've got a feeling your body will love your investment in better sleep.
10:36But I've got a feeling your body will love your investment in better sleep.
10:36But I've got a feeling your body will love your investment in better sleep.
10:40That's code ROGAN at 8sleep .com slash ROGAN.
10:40That's code ROGAN at 8sleep .com slash ROGAN.
10:40That's code ROGAN at 8sleep .com slash ROGAN.
10:40That's code ROGAN at 8sleep .com slash ROGAN.
10:40That's code ROGAN at 8sleep .com slash ROGAN.
10:44And you can manage it.
10:44And you can manage it.
10:44And you can manage it.
10:44And you can manage it.
10:44And you can manage it.
10:45Which is also interesting. You can.
10:45Which is also interesting. You can.
10:45Which is also interesting. You can.
10:45Which is also interesting. You can.
10:45Which is also interesting. You can.
10:48Because, like, I don't think about what I'm going to have for dinner.
10:48Because, like, I don't think about what I'm going to have for dinner.
10:48Because, like, I don't think about what I'm going to have for dinner.
10:48Because, like, I don't think about what I'm going to have for dinner.
10:48Because, like, I don't think about what I'm going to have for dinner.
10:50That's the thing. You put that out of your head?
10:50That's the thing. You put that out of your head?
10:50That's the thing. You put that out of your head?
10:50That's the thing. You put that out of your head?
10:50That's the thing. You put that out of your head?
10:53No, about any of those things.
10:53No, about any of those things.
10:53No, about any of those things.
10:53No, about any of those things.
10:53No, about any of those things.
10:54That's the way to stay locked in in a podcast.
10:54That's the way to stay locked in in a podcast.
10:54That's the way to stay locked in in a podcast.
10:54That's the way to stay locked in in a podcast.
10:54That's the way to stay locked in in a podcast.
10:56Yeah, that's true. Because you can let your mind wander.
10:56Yeah, that's true. Because you can let your mind wander.
10:56Yeah, that's true. Because you can let your mind wander.
10:56Yeah, that's true. Because you can let your mind wander.
10:56Yeah, that's true. Because you can let your mind wander.
11:00Oh, yeah. Especially if someone on the other side is boring.
11:00Oh, yeah. Especially if someone on the other side is boring.
11:00Oh, yeah. Especially if someone on the other side is boring.
11:00Oh, yeah. Especially if someone on the other side is boring.
11:00Oh, yeah. Especially if someone on the other side is boring.
11:03Yeah. And then I'm like, oh, no, this conversation is going to be pulling teeth.
11:03Yeah. And then I'm like, oh, no, this conversation is going to be pulling teeth.
11:03Yeah. And then I'm like, oh, no, this conversation is going to be pulling teeth.
11:03Yeah. And then I'm like, oh, no, this conversation is going to be pulling teeth.
11:03Yeah. And then I'm like, oh, no, this conversation is going to be pulling teeth.
11:06And then I start thinking about a new joke I'm working on or, oh, I've
11:06And then I start thinking about a new joke I'm working on or, oh, I've
11:06And then I start thinking about a new joke I'm working on or, oh, I've
11:06And then I start thinking about a new joke I'm working on or, oh, I've
11:06And then I start thinking about a new joke I'm working on or, oh, I've
11:10got to get my car fixed.
11:10got to get my car fixed.
11:10got to get my car fixed.
11:10got to get my car fixed.
11:10got to get my car fixed.
11:11Well, that's called spotlight consciousness when you can, like, really, like, put the blinders on.
11:11Well, that's called spotlight consciousness when you can, like, really, like, put the blinders on.
11:11Well, that's called spotlight consciousness when you can, like, really, like, put the blinders on.
11:11Well, that's called spotlight consciousness when you can, like, really, like, put the blinders on.
11:11Well, that's called spotlight consciousness when you can, like, really, like, put the blinders on.
11:16Yes. And rule everything out.
11:16Yes. And rule everything out.
11:16Yes. And rule everything out.
11:16Yes. And rule everything out.
11:16Yes. And rule everything out.
11:18And that's opposed to lantern consciousness where you're taking in all sorts of information.
11:18And that's opposed to lantern consciousness where you're taking in all sorts of information.
11:18And that's opposed to lantern consciousness where you're taking in all sorts of information.
11:18And that's opposed to lantern consciousness where you're taking in all sorts of information.
11:18And that's opposed to lantern consciousness where you're taking in all sorts of information.
11:23You're letting your mind wander.
11:23You're letting your mind wander.
11:23You're letting your mind wander.
11:23You're letting your mind wander.
11:23You're letting your mind wander.
11:26And, you know, they both have their value.
11:26And, you know, they both have their value.
11:26And, you know, they both have their value.
11:26And, you know, they both have their value.
11:26And, you know, they both have their value.
11:28For our careers, spotlight consciousness is essential for our work.
11:28For our careers, spotlight consciousness is essential for our work.
11:28For our careers, spotlight consciousness is essential for our work.
11:28For our careers, spotlight consciousness is essential for our work.
11:28For our careers, spotlight consciousness is essential for our work.
11:33We have to be able to focus.
11:33We have to be able to focus.
11:33We have to be able to focus.
11:33We have to be able to focus.
11:33We have to be able to focus.
11:35To get through school, we have to be able to focus.
11:35To get through school, we have to be able to focus.
11:35To get through school, we have to be able to focus.
11:35To get through school, we have to be able to focus.
11:35To get through school, we have to be able to focus.
11:38But, you know, children have this other kind of consciousness that's really wild because they're
11:38But, you know, children have this other kind of consciousness that's really wild because they're
11:38But, you know, children have this other kind of consciousness that's really wild because they're
11:38But, you know, children have this other kind of consciousness that's really wild because they're
11:38But, you know, children have this other kind of consciousness that's really wild because they're
11:43very undisciplined. They can't stay on task.
11:43very undisciplined. They can't stay on task.
11:43very undisciplined. They can't stay on task.
11:43very undisciplined. They can't stay on task.
11:43very undisciplined. They can't stay on task.
11:46But they're taking in so much information.
11:46But they're taking in so much information.
11:46But they're taking in so much information.
11:46But they're taking in so much information.
11:46But they're taking in so much information.
11:48And the world is just full of wonder and awe.
11:48And the world is just full of wonder and awe.
11:48And the world is just full of wonder and awe.
11:48And the world is just full of wonder and awe.
11:48And the world is just full of wonder and awe.
11:54And psychedelics, you know, is a way to recover that kind of consciousness because you're
11:54And psychedelics, you know, is a way to recover that kind of consciousness because you're
11:54And psychedelics, you know, is a way to recover that kind of consciousness because you're
11:54And psychedelics, you know, is a way to recover that kind of consciousness because you're
11:54And psychedelics, you know, is a way to recover that kind of consciousness because you're
11:58getting lots of sensory information from all over the place.
11:58getting lots of sensory information from all over the place.
11:58getting lots of sensory information from all over the place.
11:58getting lots of sensory information from all over the place.
11:58getting lots of sensory information from all over the place.
12:02It's very hard to focus.
12:02It's very hard to focus.
12:02It's very hard to focus.
12:02It's very hard to focus.
12:02It's very hard to focus.
12:06And so it's a taste of that other, you know, childhood consciousness.
12:06And so it's a taste of that other, you know, childhood consciousness.
12:06And so it's a taste of that other, you know, childhood consciousness.
12:06And so it's a taste of that other, you know, childhood consciousness.
12:06And so it's a taste of that other, you know, childhood consciousness.
12:10I always say that about marijuana as well.
12:10I always say that about marijuana as well.
12:10I always say that about marijuana as well.
12:10I always say that about marijuana as well.
12:10I always say that about marijuana as well.
12:12Like, there's a thing about marijuana that people always say that it makes them paranoid.
12:12Like, there's a thing about marijuana that people always say that it makes them paranoid.
12:12Like, there's a thing about marijuana that people always say that it makes them paranoid.
12:12Like, there's a thing about marijuana that people always say that it makes them paranoid.
12:12Like, there's a thing about marijuana that people always say that it makes them paranoid.
12:17And I say it makes you aware of all the things you should be paranoid
12:17And I say it makes you aware of all the things you should be paranoid
12:17And I say it makes you aware of all the things you should be paranoid
12:17And I say it makes you aware of all the things you should be paranoid
12:17And I say it makes you aware of all the things you should be paranoid
12:21about. That's right. Like, you're very – we're very – Vulnerable creatures, you know, but
12:21about. That's right. Like, you're very – we're very – Vulnerable creatures, you know, but
12:21about. That's right. Like, you're very – we're very – Vulnerable creatures, you know, but
12:21about. That's right. Like, you're very – we're very – Vulnerable creatures, you know, but
12:21about. That's right. Like, you're very – we're very – Vulnerable creatures, you know, but
12:26we like to pretend that we are not, you know, which is I found that
12:26we like to pretend that we are not, you know, which is I found that
12:26we like to pretend that we are not, you know, which is I found that
12:26we like to pretend that we are not, you know, which is I found that
12:26we like to pretend that we are not, you know, which is I found that
12:30out of all of my friends, the ones that have tried marijuana and hated it
12:30out of all of my friends, the ones that have tried marijuana and hated it
12:30out of all of my friends, the ones that have tried marijuana and hated it
12:30out of all of my friends, the ones that have tried marijuana and hated it
12:30out of all of my friends, the ones that have tried marijuana and hated it
12:34are all the ones that are control freaks.
12:34are all the ones that are control freaks.
12:34are all the ones that are control freaks.
12:34are all the ones that are control freaks.
12:34are all the ones that are control freaks.
12:37Yeah, they're all like really control.
12:37Yeah, they're all like really control.
12:37Yeah, they're all like really control.
12:37Yeah, they're all like really control.
12:37Yeah, they're all like really control.
12:39Yeah, they're all really buttoned down, very serious, like really worried about outcomes, really concentrating
12:39Yeah, they're all really buttoned down, very serious, like really worried about outcomes, really concentrating
12:39Yeah, they're all really buttoned down, very serious, like really worried about outcomes, really concentrating
12:39Yeah, they're all really buttoned down, very serious, like really worried about outcomes, really concentrating
12:39Yeah, they're all really buttoned down, very serious, like really worried about outcomes, really concentrating
12:46on their career, really worried about, you know, just certain things that are just part
12:46on their career, really worried about, you know, just certain things that are just part
12:46on their career, really worried about, you know, just certain things that are just part
12:46on their career, really worried about, you know, just certain things that are just part
12:46on their career, really worried about, you know, just certain things that are just part
12:53of their daily life. And then they get a couple of hits of good weed
12:53of their daily life. And then they get a couple of hits of good weed
12:53of their daily life. And then they get a couple of hits of good weed
12:53of their daily life. And then they get a couple of hits of good weed
12:53of their daily life. And then they get a couple of hits of good weed
12:56and then they're like, oh, my God, we're on a planet.
12:56and then they're like, oh, my God, we're on a planet.
12:56and then they're like, oh, my God, we're on a planet.
12:56and then they're like, oh, my God, we're on a planet.
12:56and then they're like, oh, my God, we're on a planet.
13:03You start freaking out like, oh, my God, none of this makes sense.
13:03You start freaking out like, oh, my God, none of this makes sense.
13:03You start freaking out like, oh, my God, none of this makes sense.
13:03You start freaking out like, oh, my God, none of this makes sense.
13:03You start freaking out like, oh, my God, none of this makes sense.
13:06All this is crazy. You know, the best piece of advice that I had when
13:06All this is crazy. You know, the best piece of advice that I had when
13:06All this is crazy. You know, the best piece of advice that I had when
13:06All this is crazy. You know, the best piece of advice that I had when
13:06All this is crazy. You know, the best piece of advice that I had when
13:12I was, you know, starting my exploration of psychedelics is you have to surrender.
13:12I was, you know, starting my exploration of psychedelics is you have to surrender.
13:12I was, you know, starting my exploration of psychedelics is you have to surrender.
13:12I was, you know, starting my exploration of psychedelics is you have to surrender.
13:12I was, you know, starting my exploration of psychedelics is you have to surrender.
13:17Yes. If you resist, you're going to be miserable.
13:17Yes. If you resist, you're going to be miserable.
13:17Yes. If you resist, you're going to be miserable.
13:17Yes. If you resist, you're going to be miserable.
13:17Yes. If you resist, you're going to be miserable.
13:20You're going to get so anxious and so paranoid.
13:20You're going to get so anxious and so paranoid.
13:20You're going to get so anxious and so paranoid.
13:20You're going to get so anxious and so paranoid.
13:20You're going to get so anxious and so paranoid.
13:24And if you let go, it's going to work out.
13:24And if you let go, it's going to work out.
13:24And if you let go, it's going to work out.
13:24And if you let go, it's going to work out.
13:24And if you let go, it's going to work out.
13:26Yeah, you just got to be able to accept whatever it's showing you.
13:26Yeah, you just got to be able to accept whatever it's showing you.
13:26Yeah, you just got to be able to accept whatever it's showing you.
13:26Yeah, you just got to be able to accept whatever it's showing you.
13:26Yeah, you just got to be able to accept whatever it's showing you.
13:31And, you know, we live in a very strange culture where that's illegal.
13:31And, you know, we live in a very strange culture where that's illegal.
13:31And, you know, we live in a very strange culture where that's illegal.
13:31And, you know, we live in a very strange culture where that's illegal.
13:31And, you know, we live in a very strange culture where that's illegal.
13:36Well, not everywhere, right? I mean, it's changing.
13:36Well, not everywhere, right? I mean, it's changing.
13:36Well, not everywhere, right? I mean, it's changing.
13:36Well, not everywhere, right? I mean, it's changing.
13:36Well, not everywhere, right? I mean, it's changing.
13:38Well, it is changing, fortunately.
13:38Well, it is changing, fortunately.
13:38Well, it is changing, fortunately.
13:38Well, it is changing, fortunately.
13:38Well, it is changing, fortunately.
13:40And there's some talk about it changing federally.
13:40And there's some talk about it changing federally.
13:40And there's some talk about it changing federally.
13:40And there's some talk about it changing federally.
13:40And there's some talk about it changing federally.
13:42You know, I actually talked to RFK Jr.
13:42You know, I actually talked to RFK Jr.
13:42You know, I actually talked to RFK Jr.
13:42You know, I actually talked to RFK Jr.
13:42You know, I actually talked to RFK Jr.
13:44about that. There's some amazing therapies that are hugely beneficial to veterans, police officers, people
13:44about that. There's some amazing therapies that are hugely beneficial to veterans, police officers, people
13:44about that. There's some amazing therapies that are hugely beneficial to veterans, police officers, people
13:44about that. There's some amazing therapies that are hugely beneficial to veterans, police officers, people
13:44about that. There's some amazing therapies that are hugely beneficial to veterans, police officers, people
13:52with severe PTSD that have experienced, you know, horrors that the average person never has
13:52with severe PTSD that have experienced, you know, horrors that the average person never has
13:52with severe PTSD that have experienced, you know, horrors that the average person never has
13:52with severe PTSD that have experienced, you know, horrors that the average person never has
13:52with severe PTSD that have experienced, you know, horrors that the average person never has
13:58to experience. And then they're forced to just, like, go back.
13:58to experience. And then they're forced to just, like, go back.
13:58to experience. And then they're forced to just, like, go back.
13:58to experience. And then they're forced to just, like, go back.
13:58to experience. And then they're forced to just, like, go back.
14:02They're released. Go back to regular life.
14:02They're released. Go back to regular life.
14:02They're released. Go back to regular life.
14:02They're released. Go back to regular life.
14:02They're released. Go back to regular life.
14:04I know you've served us overseas and you've seen people blow up.
14:04I know you've served us overseas and you've seen people blow up.
14:04I know you've served us overseas and you've seen people blow up.
14:04I know you've served us overseas and you've seen people blow up.
14:04I know you've served us overseas and you've seen people blow up.
14:08But now go to the supermarket.
14:08But now go to the supermarket.
14:08But now go to the supermarket.
14:08But now go to the supermarket.
14:08But now go to the supermarket.
14:10And take this SSRI and it'll be okay.
14:10And take this SSRI and it'll be okay.
14:10And take this SSRI and it'll be okay.
14:10And take this SSRI and it'll be okay.
14:10And take this SSRI and it'll be okay.
14:11And, you know, I know a bunch of them.
14:11And, you know, I know a bunch of them.
14:11And, you know, I know a bunch of them.
14:11And, you know, I know a bunch of them.
14:11And, you know, I know a bunch of them.
14:13And so many of them have benefited particularly from Ibogaine.
14:13And so many of them have benefited particularly from Ibogaine.
14:13And so many of them have benefited particularly from Ibogaine.
14:13And so many of them have benefited particularly from Ibogaine.
14:13And so many of them have benefited particularly from Ibogaine.
14:17Yeah. Ibogaine, the work that Rick Doblin and MAPS has done.
14:17Yeah. Ibogaine, the work that Rick Doblin and MAPS has done.
14:17Yeah. Ibogaine, the work that Rick Doblin and MAPS has done.
14:17Yeah. Ibogaine, the work that Rick Doblin and MAPS has done.
14:17Yeah. Ibogaine, the work that Rick Doblin and MAPS has done.
14:21Yes, MDMA. And psilocybin. Those three are the big ones that I think.
14:21Yes, MDMA. And psilocybin. Those three are the big ones that I think.
14:21Yes, MDMA. And psilocybin. Those three are the big ones that I think.
14:21Yes, MDMA. And psilocybin. Those three are the big ones that I think.
14:21Yes, MDMA. And psilocybin. Those three are the big ones that I think.
14:26Well, you know, I heard a lot of positive noise out of the administration at
14:26Well, you know, I heard a lot of positive noise out of the administration at
14:26Well, you know, I heard a lot of positive noise out of the administration at
14:26Well, you know, I heard a lot of positive noise out of the administration at
14:26Well, you know, I heard a lot of positive noise out of the administration at
14:29the beginning that they were very much in favor of approving, the FDA approving MDMA
14:29the beginning that they were very much in favor of approving, the FDA approving MDMA
14:29the beginning that they were very much in favor of approving, the FDA approving MDMA
14:29the beginning that they were very much in favor of approving, the FDA approving MDMA
14:29the beginning that they were very much in favor of approving, the FDA approving MDMA
14:37first and then psilocybin. I don't think we're there with Ibogaine yet just because the
14:37first and then psilocybin. I don't think we're there with Ibogaine yet just because the
14:37first and then psilocybin. I don't think we're there with Ibogaine yet just because the
14:37first and then psilocybin. I don't think we're there with Ibogaine yet just because the
14:37first and then psilocybin. I don't think we're there with Ibogaine yet just because the
14:41research hasn't been done, although it has shown great benefit anecdotally.
14:41research hasn't been done, although it has shown great benefit anecdotally.
14:41research hasn't been done, although it has shown great benefit anecdotally.
14:41research hasn't been done, although it has shown great benefit anecdotally.
14:41research hasn't been done, although it has shown great benefit anecdotally.
14:46But something happened in the last month or two.
14:46But something happened in the last month or two.
14:46But something happened in the last month or two.
14:46But something happened in the last month or two.
14:46But something happened in the last month or two.
14:49And there was either Compass Pathways that was going to submit for psilocybin therapy or
14:49And there was either Compass Pathways that was going to submit for psilocybin therapy or
14:49And there was either Compass Pathways that was going to submit for psilocybin therapy or
14:49And there was either Compass Pathways that was going to submit for psilocybin therapy or
14:49And there was either Compass Pathways that was going to submit for psilocybin therapy or
15:00MAPS was on a list of five drugs that were going to get an expedited
15:00MAPS was on a list of five drugs that were going to get an expedited
15:00MAPS was on a list of five drugs that were going to get an expedited
15:00MAPS was on a list of five drugs that were going to get an expedited
15:00MAPS was on a list of five drugs that were going to get an expedited
15:06approval process. This list went up to the White House and the psychedelic was taken
15:06approval process. This list went up to the White House and the psychedelic was taken
15:06approval process. This list went up to the White House and the psychedelic was taken
15:06approval process. This list went up to the White House and the psychedelic was taken
15:06approval process. This list went up to the White House and the psychedelic was taken
15:12off it. So there's somebody in the White House who doesn't want to see this
15:12off it. So there's somebody in the White House who doesn't want to see this
15:12off it. So there's somebody in the White House who doesn't want to see this
15:12off it. So there's somebody in the White House who doesn't want to see this
15:12off it. So there's somebody in the White House who doesn't want to see this
15:15happen. So it may slow down even if RFK Jr.
15:15happen. So it may slow down even if RFK Jr.
15:15happen. So it may slow down even if RFK Jr.
15:15happen. So it may slow down even if RFK Jr.
15:15happen. So it may slow down even if RFK Jr.
15:19is in favor and some other people at the FDA are in favor.
15:19is in favor and some other people at the FDA are in favor.
15:19is in favor and some other people at the FDA are in favor.
15:19is in favor and some other people at the FDA are in favor.
15:19is in favor and some other people at the FDA are in favor.
15:23And maybe they're just waiting to get past the election.
15:23And maybe they're just waiting to get past the election.
15:23And maybe they're just waiting to get past the election.
15:23And maybe they're just waiting to get past the election.
15:23And maybe they're just waiting to get past the election.
15:26It could be that it's too controversial for something to do before the midterms.
15:26It could be that it's too controversial for something to do before the midterms.
15:26It could be that it's too controversial for something to do before the midterms.
15:26It could be that it's too controversial for something to do before the midterms.
15:26It could be that it's too controversial for something to do before the midterms.
15:30Yeah. Yeah. That's a gross way to live your life.
15:30Yeah. Yeah. That's a gross way to live your life.
15:30Yeah. Yeah. That's a gross way to live your life.
15:30Yeah. Yeah. That's a gross way to live your life.
15:30Yeah. Yeah. That's a gross way to live your life.
15:35Oh, yeah. You're worried about midterms and elections and you can't do what you actually
15:35Oh, yeah. You're worried about midterms and elections and you can't do what you actually
15:35Oh, yeah. You're worried about midterms and elections and you can't do what you actually
15:35Oh, yeah. You're worried about midterms and elections and you can't do what you actually
15:35Oh, yeah. You're worried about midterms and elections and you can't do what you actually
15:40want to do or think is right to do because you're worried about public perception.
15:40want to do or think is right to do because you're worried about public perception.
15:40want to do or think is right to do because you're worried about public perception.
15:40want to do or think is right to do because you're worried about public perception.
15:40want to do or think is right to do because you're worried about public perception.
15:44And I don't think it would be unpopular.
15:44And I don't think it would be unpopular.
15:44And I don't think it would be unpopular.
15:44And I don't think it would be unpopular.
15:44And I don't think it would be unpopular.
15:46I mean the fact that it's helpful to vets and first responders and women who
15:46I mean the fact that it's helpful to vets and first responders and women who
15:46I mean the fact that it's helpful to vets and first responders and women who
15:46I mean the fact that it's helpful to vets and first responders and women who
15:46I mean the fact that it's helpful to vets and first responders and women who
15:50have been victims of sexual abuse seems to me that's a very sympathetic group of
15:50have been victims of sexual abuse seems to me that's a very sympathetic group of
15:50have been victims of sexual abuse seems to me that's a very sympathetic group of
15:50have been victims of sexual abuse seems to me that's a very sympathetic group of
15:50have been victims of sexual abuse seems to me that's a very sympathetic group of
15:54people. Yeah. And everyone has experienced loss of family members.
15:54people. Yeah. And everyone has experienced loss of family members.
15:54people. Yeah. And everyone has experienced loss of family members.
15:54people. Yeah. And everyone has experienced loss of family members.
15:54people. Yeah. And everyone has experienced loss of family members.
15:58There's a bunch of different things that it can help you with that are way
15:58There's a bunch of different things that it can help you with that are way
15:58There's a bunch of different things that it can help you with that are way
15:58There's a bunch of different things that it can help you with that are way
15:58There's a bunch of different things that it can help you with that are way
16:01better for you than just numbing your mind all day long.
16:01better for you than just numbing your mind all day long.
16:01better for you than just numbing your mind all day long.
16:01better for you than just numbing your mind all day long.
16:01better for you than just numbing your mind all day long.
16:05Yeah. Which is what a lot of people are choosing to do.
16:05Yeah. Which is what a lot of people are choosing to do.
16:05Yeah. Which is what a lot of people are choosing to do.
16:05Yeah. Which is what a lot of people are choosing to do.
16:05Yeah. Which is what a lot of people are choosing to do.
16:07And then unfortunately a lot of people self -medicate as well.
16:07And then unfortunately a lot of people self -medicate as well.
16:07And then unfortunately a lot of people self -medicate as well.
16:07And then unfortunately a lot of people self -medicate as well.
16:07And then unfortunately a lot of people self -medicate as well.
16:10So then they get involved in all sorts of stuff that they just pick up
16:10So then they get involved in all sorts of stuff that they just pick up
16:10So then they get involved in all sorts of stuff that they just pick up
16:10So then they get involved in all sorts of stuff that they just pick up
16:10So then they get involved in all sorts of stuff that they just pick up
16:13off the street or they start using alcohol.
16:13off the street or they start using alcohol.
16:13off the street or they start using alcohol.
16:13off the street or they start using alcohol.
16:13off the street or they start using alcohol.
16:17Well, you know, to go back to consciousness, this is a very common thing that
16:17Well, you know, to go back to consciousness, this is a very common thing that
16:17Well, you know, to go back to consciousness, this is a very common thing that
16:17Well, you know, to go back to consciousness, this is a very common thing that
16:17Well, you know, to go back to consciousness, this is a very common thing that
16:23people want to be less conscious.
16:23people want to be less conscious.
16:23people want to be less conscious.
16:23people want to be less conscious.
16:23people want to be less conscious.
16:25Right. And I get that if you had trauma, if you're a ruminator and being
16:25Right. And I get that if you had trauma, if you're a ruminator and being
16:25Right. And I get that if you had trauma, if you're a ruminator and being
16:25Right. And I get that if you had trauma, if you're a ruminator and being
16:25Right. And I get that if you had trauma, if you're a ruminator and being
16:32in your mind is a really scary place to be.
16:32in your mind is a really scary place to be.
16:32in your mind is a really scary place to be.
16:32in your mind is a really scary place to be.
16:32in your mind is a really scary place to be.
16:35Yeah. It doesn't solve anything.
16:35Yeah. It doesn't solve anything.
16:35Yeah. It doesn't solve anything.
16:35Yeah. It doesn't solve anything.
16:35Yeah. It doesn't solve anything.
16:37But you have all these techniques we have for muting consciousness and just being less
16:37But you have all these techniques we have for muting consciousness and just being less
16:37But you have all these techniques we have for muting consciousness and just being less
16:37But you have all these techniques we have for muting consciousness and just being less
16:37But you have all these techniques we have for muting consciousness and just being less
16:43aware, less present. And one of the things that I concluded after doing all this
16:43aware, less present. And one of the things that I concluded after doing all this
16:43aware, less present. And one of the things that I concluded after doing all this
16:43aware, less present. And one of the things that I concluded after doing all this
16:43aware, less present. And one of the things that I concluded after doing all this
16:50research on consciousness is that it's funny.
16:50research on consciousness is that it's funny.
16:50research on consciousness is that it's funny.
16:50research on consciousness is that it's funny.
16:50research on consciousness is that it's funny.
16:53I was going down this path of tight focus, solve, you know, it was a
16:53I was going down this path of tight focus, solve, you know, it was a
16:53I was going down this path of tight focus, solve, you know, it was a
16:53I was going down this path of tight focus, solve, you know, it was a
16:53I was going down this path of tight focus, solve, you know, it was a
16:57very kind of Western male framework, which we've got a problem.
16:57very kind of Western male framework, which we've got a problem.
16:57very kind of Western male framework, which we've got a problem.
16:57very kind of Western male framework, which we've got a problem.
16:57very kind of Western male framework, which we've got a problem.
17:03What's the solution? Hard problem of consciousness.
17:03What's the solution? Hard problem of consciousness.
17:03What's the solution? Hard problem of consciousness.
17:03What's the solution? Hard problem of consciousness.
17:03What's the solution? Hard problem of consciousness.
17:05What's the right theory? And at a certain point I realized, OK, that's an interesting
17:05What's the right theory? And at a certain point I realized, OK, that's an interesting
17:05What's the right theory? And at a certain point I realized, OK, that's an interesting
17:05What's the right theory? And at a certain point I realized, OK, that's an interesting
17:05What's the right theory? And at a certain point I realized, OK, that's an interesting
17:10question. It's probably not solvable now.
17:10question. It's probably not solvable now.
17:10question. It's probably not solvable now.
17:10question. It's probably not solvable now.
17:10question. It's probably not solvable now.
17:12But there is this incredible phenomenon that we have this interior space where we have
17:12But there is this incredible phenomenon that we have this interior space where we have
17:12But there is this incredible phenomenon that we have this interior space where we have
17:12But there is this incredible phenomenon that we have this interior space where we have
17:12But there is this incredible phenomenon that we have this interior space where we have
17:18complete mental freedom, total privacy.
17:18complete mental freedom, total privacy.
17:18complete mental freedom, total privacy.
17:18complete mental freedom, total privacy.
17:18complete mental freedom, total privacy.
17:21We can think whatever we want and we're giving it away.
17:21We can think whatever we want and we're giving it away.
17:21We can think whatever we want and we're giving it away.
17:21We can think whatever we want and we're giving it away.
17:21We can think whatever we want and we're giving it away.
17:26We're either, you know, muffling it with drugs and things like that or we're filling
17:26We're either, you know, muffling it with drugs and things like that or we're filling
17:26We're either, you know, muffling it with drugs and things like that or we're filling
17:26We're either, you know, muffling it with drugs and things like that or we're filling
17:26We're either, you know, muffling it with drugs and things like that or we're filling
17:33that time with social media, you know, scrolling.
17:33that time with social media, you know, scrolling.
17:33that time with social media, you know, scrolling.
17:33that time with social media, you know, scrolling.
17:33that time with social media, you know, scrolling.
17:37You know, I mean, we've heard about hacking our attention and we know these algorithms,
17:37You know, I mean, we've heard about hacking our attention and we know these algorithms,
17:37You know, I mean, we've heard about hacking our attention and we know these algorithms,
17:37You know, I mean, we've heard about hacking our attention and we know these algorithms,
17:37You know, I mean, we've heard about hacking our attention and we know these algorithms,
17:43you know, from social media are very good at like giving us these little dopamine
17:43you know, from social media are very good at like giving us these little dopamine
17:43you know, from social media are very good at like giving us these little dopamine
17:43you know, from social media are very good at like giving us these little dopamine
17:43you know, from social media are very good at like giving us these little dopamine
17:46hits. But that's that's time that we used to spend in spontaneous thought, you know,
17:46hits. But that's that's time that we used to spend in spontaneous thought, you know,
17:46hits. But that's that's time that we used to spend in spontaneous thought, you know,
17:46hits. But that's that's time that we used to spend in spontaneous thought, you know,
17:46hits. But that's that's time that we used to spend in spontaneous thought, you know,
17:54daydreaming, mind wandering, which can be very creative.
17:54daydreaming, mind wandering, which can be very creative.
17:54daydreaming, mind wandering, which can be very creative.
17:54daydreaming, mind wandering, which can be very creative.
17:54daydreaming, mind wandering, which can be very creative.
17:59So I came out of it thinking, no, I may not solve consciousness, but I'm
17:59So I came out of it thinking, no, I may not solve consciousness, but I'm
17:59So I came out of it thinking, no, I may not solve consciousness, but I'm
17:59So I came out of it thinking, no, I may not solve consciousness, but I'm
17:59So I came out of it thinking, no, I may not solve consciousness, but I'm
18:05going to appreciate it. I'm going to use it.
18:05going to appreciate it. I'm going to use it.
18:05going to appreciate it. I'm going to use it.
18:05going to appreciate it. I'm going to use it.
18:05going to appreciate it. I'm going to use it.
18:07I'm going to create a space for it.
18:07I'm going to create a space for it.
18:07I'm going to create a space for it.
18:07I'm going to create a space for it.
18:07I'm going to create a space for it.
18:11And and, you know, meditate is one way.
18:11And and, you know, meditate is one way.
18:11And and, you know, meditate is one way.
18:11And and, you know, meditate is one way.
18:11And and, you know, meditate is one way.
18:13Using psychedelics is another way.
18:13Using psychedelics is another way.
18:13Using psychedelics is another way.
18:13Using psychedelics is another way.
18:13Using psychedelics is another way.
18:15These are all ways to be in your head and explore what's there, which is
18:15These are all ways to be in your head and explore what's there, which is
18:15These are all ways to be in your head and explore what's there, which is
18:15These are all ways to be in your head and explore what's there, which is
18:15These are all ways to be in your head and explore what's there, which is
18:19kind of miraculous. Yeah, there's a bunch of different ways to do it.
18:19kind of miraculous. Yeah, there's a bunch of different ways to do it.
18:19kind of miraculous. Yeah, there's a bunch of different ways to do it.
18:19kind of miraculous. Yeah, there's a bunch of different ways to do it.
18:19kind of miraculous. Yeah, there's a bunch of different ways to do it.
18:22I mean, some people like to do it through running.
18:22I mean, some people like to do it through running.
18:22I mean, some people like to do it through running.
18:22I mean, some people like to do it through running.
18:22I mean, some people like to do it through running.
18:24Yeah. You know, running is also they've found one of the things they've found recently
18:24Yeah. You know, running is also they've found one of the things they've found recently
18:24Yeah. You know, running is also they've found one of the things they've found recently
18:24Yeah. You know, running is also they've found one of the things they've found recently
18:24Yeah. You know, running is also they've found one of the things they've found recently
18:30is that running with in terms of endogenous cannabinoids, like runner's high is an actual
18:30is that running with in terms of endogenous cannabinoids, like runner's high is an actual
18:30is that running with in terms of endogenous cannabinoids, like runner's high is an actual
18:30is that running with in terms of endogenous cannabinoids, like runner's high is an actual
18:30is that running with in terms of endogenous cannabinoids, like runner's high is an actual
18:37real thing. It's a real thing.
18:37real thing. It's a real thing.
18:37real thing. It's a real thing.
18:37real thing. It's a real thing.
18:37real thing. It's a real thing.
18:38There's a drug. There's a drug.
18:38There's a drug. There's a drug.
18:38There's a drug. There's a drug.
18:38There's a drug. There's a drug.
18:38There's a drug. There's a drug.
18:39least yeah that feels great and it feels great but it doesn't fuck with your
18:39least yeah that feels great and it feels great but it doesn't fuck with your
18:39least yeah that feels great and it feels great but it doesn't fuck with your
18:39least yeah that feels great and it feels great but it doesn't fuck with your
18:39least yeah that feels great and it feels great but it doesn't fuck with your
18:43perceptions it doesn't mess with your motor skills doesn't cloud your judgment it just makes
18:43perceptions it doesn't mess with your motor skills doesn't cloud your judgment it just makes
18:43perceptions it doesn't mess with your motor skills doesn't cloud your judgment it just makes
18:43perceptions it doesn't mess with your motor skills doesn't cloud your judgment it just makes
18:43perceptions it doesn't mess with your motor skills doesn't cloud your judgment it just makes
18:50you feel great yeah yeah experiences of awe do this too you know you go
18:50you feel great yeah yeah experiences of awe do this too you know you go
18:50you feel great yeah yeah experiences of awe do this too you know you go
18:50you feel great yeah yeah experiences of awe do this too you know you go
18:50you feel great yeah yeah experiences of awe do this too you know you go
18:54to the grand canyon or something and or a great piece of art and you
18:54to the grand canyon or something and or a great piece of art and you
18:54to the grand canyon or something and or a great piece of art and you
18:54to the grand canyon or something and or a great piece of art and you
18:54to the grand canyon or something and or a great piece of art and you
18:58have this feeling of like powerful uh presence and uh and it's very interesting it
18:58have this feeling of like powerful uh presence and uh and it's very interesting it
18:58have this feeling of like powerful uh presence and uh and it's very interesting it
18:58have this feeling of like powerful uh presence and uh and it's very interesting it
18:58have this feeling of like powerful uh presence and uh and it's very interesting it
19:06shrinks the ego i have a a good friend who's a colleague at berkeley a
19:06shrinks the ego i have a a good friend who's a colleague at berkeley a
19:06shrinks the ego i have a a good friend who's a colleague at berkeley a
19:06shrinks the ego i have a a good friend who's a colleague at berkeley a
19:06shrinks the ego i have a a good friend who's a colleague at berkeley a
19:11psychologist who studies awe um and uh he does this cool experiment where he has
19:11psychologist who studies awe um and uh he does this cool experiment where he has
19:11psychologist who studies awe um and uh he does this cool experiment where he has
19:11psychologist who studies awe um and uh he does this cool experiment where he has
19:11psychologist who studies awe um and uh he does this cool experiment where he has
19:17people um draw a picture of themselves on graph paper you know just stick figure
19:17people um draw a picture of themselves on graph paper you know just stick figure
19:17people um draw a picture of themselves on graph paper you know just stick figure
19:17people um draw a picture of themselves on graph paper you know just stick figure
19:17people um draw a picture of themselves on graph paper you know just stick figure
19:21or something like that and then he takes some river rafting or something like that
19:21or something like that and then he takes some river rafting or something like that
19:21or something like that and then he takes some river rafting or something like that
19:21or something like that and then he takes some river rafting or something like that
19:21or something like that and then he takes some river rafting or something like that
19:25or even just shows them a picture of yosemite and then he has them draw
19:25or even just shows them a picture of yosemite and then he has them draw
19:25or even just shows them a picture of yosemite and then he has them draw
19:25or even just shows them a picture of yosemite and then he has them draw
19:25or even just shows them a picture of yosemite and then he has them draw
19:28themselves again and they draw themselves at like half the size because their sense of
19:28themselves again and they draw themselves at like half the size because their sense of
19:28themselves again and they draw themselves at like half the size because their sense of
19:28themselves again and they draw themselves at like half the size because their sense of
19:28themselves again and they draw themselves at like half the size because their sense of
19:33self has been overwhelmed by this transcendent experience and uh so he calls it the
19:33self has been overwhelmed by this transcendent experience and uh so he calls it the
19:33self has been overwhelmed by this transcendent experience and uh so he calls it the
19:33self has been overwhelmed by this transcendent experience and uh so he calls it the
19:33self has been overwhelmed by this transcendent experience and uh so he calls it the
19:39the small self and it feels good i mean we're we're so kind of weird
19:39the small self and it feels good i mean we're we're so kind of weird
19:39the small self and it feels good i mean we're we're so kind of weird
19:39the small self and it feels good i mean we're we're so kind of weird
19:39the small self and it feels good i mean we're we're so kind of weird
19:45about the self you know we celebrate it right self -confidence we want our kids
19:45about the self you know we celebrate it right self -confidence we want our kids
19:45about the self you know we celebrate it right self -confidence we want our kids
19:45about the self you know we celebrate it right self -confidence we want our kids
19:45about the self you know we celebrate it right self -confidence we want our kids
19:49to have you know self -esteem and self -assurance yet we do all sorts of
19:49to have you know self -esteem and self -assurance yet we do all sorts of
19:49to have you know self -esteem and self -assurance yet we do all sorts of
19:49to have you know self -esteem and self -assurance yet we do all sorts of
19:49to have you know self -esteem and self -assurance yet we do all sorts of
19:53things to get away from it um to you know to transcend it well i
19:53things to get away from it um to you know to transcend it well i
19:53things to get away from it um to you know to transcend it well i
19:53things to get away from it um to you know to transcend it well i
19:53things to get away from it um to you know to transcend it well i
19:57think it's because without those things you're never going to make it in life yes
19:57think it's because without those things you're never going to make it in life yes
19:57think it's because without those things you're never going to make it in life yes
19:57think it's because without those things you're never going to make it in life yes
19:57think it's because without those things you're never going to make it in life yes
20:01it's adaptive you definitely it's definitely gets things done but it also isolates you right
20:01it's adaptive you definitely it's definitely gets things done but it also isolates you right
20:01it's adaptive you definitely it's definitely gets things done but it also isolates you right
20:01it's adaptive you definitely it's definitely gets things done but it also isolates you right
20:01it's adaptive you definitely it's definitely gets things done but it also isolates you right
20:07because the ego builds walls right and um and when the walls come down we
20:07because the ego builds walls right and um and when the walls come down we
20:07because the ego builds walls right and um and when the walls come down we
20:07because the ego builds walls right and um and when the walls come down we
20:07because the ego builds walls right and um and when the walls come down we
20:11feel like we're part of something much larger and that feels really good well i
20:11feel like we're part of something much larger and that feels really good well i
20:11feel like we're part of something much larger and that feels really good well i
20:11feel like we're part of something much larger and that feels really good well i
20:11feel like we're part of something much larger and that feels really good well i
20:15think my advice to people is once you get competency in us in a thing
20:15think my advice to people is once you get competency in us in a thing
20:15think my advice to people is once you get competency in us in a thing
20:15think my advice to people is once you get competency in us in a thing
20:15think my advice to people is once you get competency in us in a thing
20:19forget about the self -respect and so forget about all that self stuff and just
20:19forget about the self -respect and so forget about all that self stuff and just
20:19forget about the self -respect and so forget about all that self stuff and just
20:19forget about the self -respect and so forget about all that self stuff and just
20:19forget about the self -respect and so forget about all that self stuff and just
20:24concentrate on the thing whatever it is yeah and you can find some sort of
20:24concentrate on the thing whatever it is yeah and you can find some sort of
20:24concentrate on the thing whatever it is yeah and you can find some sort of
20:24concentrate on the thing whatever it is yeah and you can find some sort of
20:24concentrate on the thing whatever it is yeah and you can find some sort of
20:31meditative at least beneficial like whatever you get from meditation is which is like a
20:31meditative at least beneficial like whatever you get from meditation is which is like a
20:31meditative at least beneficial like whatever you get from meditation is which is like a
20:31meditative at least beneficial like whatever you get from meditation is which is like a
20:31meditative at least beneficial like whatever you get from meditation is which is like a
20:38cleansing of the mind like a lot of people find that through archery you know
20:38cleansing of the mind like a lot of people find that through archery you know
20:38cleansing of the mind like a lot of people find that through archery you know
20:38cleansing of the mind like a lot of people find that through archery you know
20:38cleansing of the mind like a lot of people find that through archery you know
20:43archery is a weird thing because at the moment of releasing the arrow it's like
20:43archery is a weird thing because at the moment of releasing the arrow it's like
20:43archery is a weird thing because at the moment of releasing the arrow it's like
20:43archery is a weird thing because at the moment of releasing the arrow it's like
20:43archery is a weird thing because at the moment of releasing the arrow it's like
20:48almost impossible to think about anything else all you're thinking about is hitting the target
20:48almost impossible to think about anything else all you're thinking about is hitting the target
20:48almost impossible to think about anything else all you're thinking about is hitting the target
20:48almost impossible to think about anything else all you're thinking about is hitting the target
20:48almost impossible to think about anything else all you're thinking about is hitting the target
20:52and there's so many different things that you have to have in position there's so
20:52and there's so many different things that you have to have in position there's so
20:52and there's so many different things that you have to have in position there's so
20:52and there's so many different things that you have to have in position there's so
20:52and there's so many different things that you have to have in position there's so
20:57much going on that people when they're troubled love to go to an archery range
20:57much going on that people when they're troubled love to go to an archery range
20:57much going on that people when they're troubled love to go to an archery range
20:57much going on that people when they're troubled love to go to an archery range
20:57much going on that people when they're troubled love to go to an archery range
21:02and just hit targets and it just clears your mind out this episode is brought
21:02and just hit targets and it just clears your mind out this episode is brought
21:02and just hit targets and it just clears your mind out this episode is brought
21:02and just hit targets and it just clears your mind out this episode is brought
21:02and just hit targets and it just clears your mind out this episode is brought
21:06to you by armra every week there's some new wellness hack that people swear by
21:06to you by armra every week there's some new wellness hack that people swear by
21:06to you by armra every week there's some new wellness hack that people swear by
21:06to you by armra every week there's some new wellness hack that people swear by
21:06to you by armra every week there's some new wellness hack that people swear by
21:10and after a while you start thinking why do we think we can just outsmart
21:10and after a while you start thinking why do we think we can just outsmart
21:10and after a while you start thinking why do we think we can just outsmart
21:10and after a while you start thinking why do we think we can just outsmart
21:10and after a while you start thinking why do we think we can just outsmart
21:15our bodies that's why armra colostrum caught my attention it's something the body already recognizes
21:15our bodies that's why armra colostrum caught my attention it's something the body already recognizes
21:15our bodies that's why armra colostrum caught my attention it's something the body already recognizes
21:15our bodies that's why armra colostrum caught my attention it's something the body already recognizes
21:15our bodies that's why armra colostrum caught my attention it's something the body already recognizes
21:21and has hundreds of these specialized nutrients for gut stuff immunity metabolism etc i first
21:21and has hundreds of these specialized nutrients for gut stuff immunity metabolism etc i first
21:21and has hundreds of these specialized nutrients for gut stuff immunity metabolism etc i first
21:21and has hundreds of these specialized nutrients for gut stuff immunity metabolism etc i first
21:21and has hundreds of these specialized nutrients for gut stuff immunity metabolism etc i first
21:28noticed it working around training especially workout recovery most stuff falls off but i am
21:28noticed it working around training especially workout recovery most stuff falls off but i am
21:28noticed it working around training especially workout recovery most stuff falls off but i am
21:28noticed it working around training especially workout recovery most stuff falls off but i am
21:28noticed it working around training especially workout recovery most stuff falls off but i am
21:34still taking this if you want to try armra is offering my listeners 30 off
21:34still taking this if you want to try armra is offering my listeners 30 off
21:34still taking this if you want to try armra is offering my listeners 30 off
21:34still taking this if you want to try armra is offering my listeners 30 off
21:34still taking this if you want to try armra is offering my listeners 30 off
21:38plus two free gifts go to armra .com slash rogan it's flow it's flow right
21:38plus two free gifts go to armra .com slash rogan it's flow it's flow right
21:38plus two free gifts go to armra .com slash rogan it's flow it's flow right
21:38plus two free gifts go to armra .com slash rogan it's flow it's flow right
21:38plus two free gifts go to armra .com slash rogan it's flow it's flow right
21:45and it's a feeling you get to when your work is going really well and
21:45and it's a feeling you get to when your work is going really well and
21:45and it's a feeling you get to when your work is going really well and
21:45and it's a feeling you get to when your work is going really well and
21:45and it's a feeling you get to when your work is going really well and
21:49you're not thinking about it you're just in it yeah and it's a it's a
21:49you're not thinking about it you're just in it yeah and it's a it's a
21:49you're not thinking about it you're just in it yeah and it's a it's a
21:49you're not thinking about it you're just in it yeah and it's a it's a
21:49you're not thinking about it you're just in it yeah and it's a it's a
21:53really precious experience it really is but if you're thinking about yourself and your self
21:53really precious experience it really is but if you're thinking about yourself and your self
21:53really precious experience it really is but if you're thinking about yourself and your self
21:53really precious experience it really is but if you're thinking about yourself and your self
21:53really precious experience it really is but if you're thinking about yourself and your self
21:58-image like that's not it's not gonna come no it's not it's not it's a
21:58-image like that's not it's not gonna come no it's not it's not it's a
21:58-image like that's not it's not gonna come no it's not it's not it's a
21:58-image like that's not it's not gonna come no it's not it's not it's a
21:58-image like that's not it's not gonna come no it's not it's not it's a
22:02it's an interesting trap you know um we we've had these discussions in stand -up
22:02it's an interesting trap you know um we we've had these discussions in stand -up
22:02it's an interesting trap you know um we we've had these discussions in stand -up
22:02it's an interesting trap you know um we we've had these discussions in stand -up
22:02it's an interesting trap you know um we we've had these discussions in stand -up
22:08comedy about uh joke thieves and um they don't really make it anymore because the
22:08comedy about uh joke thieves and um they don't really make it anymore because the
22:08comedy about uh joke thieves and um they don't really make it anymore because the
22:08comedy about uh joke thieves and um they don't really make it anymore because the
22:08comedy about uh joke thieves and um they don't really make it anymore because the
22:14internet the internet is essentially like eliminated that problem for the most part um but
22:14internet the internet is essentially like eliminated that problem for the most part um but
22:14internet the internet is essentially like eliminated that problem for the most part um but
22:14internet the internet is essentially like eliminated that problem for the most part um but
22:14internet the internet is essentially like eliminated that problem for the most part um but
22:19the kind of mentality that makes you steal a joke is the exact kind of
22:19the kind of mentality that makes you steal a joke is the exact kind of
22:19the kind of mentality that makes you steal a joke is the exact kind of
22:19the kind of mentality that makes you steal a joke is the exact kind of
22:19the kind of mentality that makes you steal a joke is the exact kind of
22:25mentality that keeps you from writing a joke so the kind of people that began
22:25mentality that keeps you from writing a joke so the kind of people that began
22:25mentality that keeps you from writing a joke so the kind of people that began
22:25mentality that keeps you from writing a joke so the kind of people that began
22:25mentality that keeps you from writing a joke so the kind of people that began
22:30their career stealing material what happens is like early on they'll have like one good
22:30their career stealing material what happens is like early on they'll have like one good
22:30their career stealing material what happens is like early on they'll have like one good
22:30their career stealing material what happens is like early on they'll have like one good
22:30their career stealing material what happens is like early on they'll have like one good
22:34comedy special because it's got a bunch of other people's material in it and then
22:34comedy special because it's got a bunch of other people's material in it and then
22:34comedy special because it's got a bunch of other people's material in it and then
22:34comedy special because it's got a bunch of other people's material in it and then
22:34comedy special because it's got a bunch of other people's material in it and then
22:37they get outed and so then they have to show they can do another and
22:37they get outed and so then they have to show they can do another and
22:37they get outed and so then they have to show they can do another and
22:37they get outed and so then they have to show they can do another and
22:37they get outed and so then they have to show they can do another and
22:41the other specials are always terrible i mean unbelievably awful like someone's doing a cheap
22:41the other specials are always terrible i mean unbelievably awful like someone's doing a cheap
22:41the other specials are always terrible i mean unbelievably awful like someone's doing a cheap
22:41the other specials are always terrible i mean unbelievably awful like someone's doing a cheap
22:41the other specials are always terrible i mean unbelievably awful like someone's doing a cheap
22:48impression of the original person who had all this great insight right because the very
22:48impression of the original person who had all this great insight right because the very
22:48impression of the original person who had all this great insight right because the very
22:48impression of the original person who had all this great insight right because the very
22:48impression of the original person who had all this great insight right because the very
22:52thing that keeps you from doing it is the thing that you've been doing like
22:52thing that keeps you from doing it is the thing that you've been doing like
22:52thing that keeps you from doing it is the thing that you've been doing like
22:52thing that keeps you from doing it is the thing that you've been doing like
22:52thing that keeps you from doing it is the thing that you've been doing like
22:57thinking about yourself like i'm going to take these jokes and i'm going to make
22:57thinking about yourself like i'm going to take these jokes and i'm going to make
22:57thinking about yourself like i'm going to take these jokes and i'm going to make
22:57thinking about yourself like i'm going to take these jokes and i'm going to make
22:57thinking about yourself like i'm going to take these jokes and i'm going to make
23:00it i'm going to have a big career people are going to laugh they're going
23:00it i'm going to have a big career people are going to laugh they're going
23:00it i'm going to have a big career people are going to laugh they're going
23:00it i'm going to have a big career people are going to laugh they're going
23:00it i'm going to have a big career people are going to laugh they're going
23:02to love me here we go with no regard whatsoever for that other person's creativity
23:02to love me here we go with no regard whatsoever for that other person's creativity
23:02to love me here we go with no regard whatsoever for that other person's creativity
23:02to love me here we go with no regard whatsoever for that other person's creativity
23:02to love me here we go with no regard whatsoever for that other person's creativity
23:07that is like so that takes you out poisoning your own creativity right it's weird
23:07that is like so that takes you out poisoning your own creativity right it's weird
23:07that is like so that takes you out poisoning your own creativity right it's weird
23:07that is like so that takes you out poisoning your own creativity right it's weird
23:07that is like so that takes you out poisoning your own creativity right it's weird
23:12it is weird it's weird because like everybody that i've ever talked to that's either
23:12it is weird it's weird because like everybody that i've ever talked to that's either
23:12it is weird it's weird because like everybody that i've ever talked to that's either
23:12it is weird it's weird because like everybody that i've ever talked to that's either
23:12it is weird it's weird because like everybody that i've ever talked to that's either
23:18an author or even musicians or comedians when something comes to them when they're writing
23:18an author or even musicians or comedians when something comes to them when they're writing
23:18an author or even musicians or comedians when something comes to them when they're writing
23:18an author or even musicians or comedians when something comes to them when they're writing
23:18an author or even musicians or comedians when something comes to them when they're writing
23:22it's like it comes from somewhere else it's like i didn't even write it it's
23:22it's like it comes from somewhere else it's like i didn't even write it it's
23:22it's like it comes from somewhere else it's like i didn't even write it it's
23:22it's like it comes from somewhere else it's like i didn't even write it it's
23:22it's like it comes from somewhere else it's like i didn't even write it it's
23:27and you know we call we talk about being in the zone and there are
23:27and you know we call we talk about being in the zone and there are
23:27and you know we call we talk about being in the zone and there are
23:27and you know we call we talk about being in the zone and there are
23:27and you know we call we talk about being in the zone and there are
23:31times when you're writing it doesn't happen every day but there are times when you're
23:31times when you're writing it doesn't happen every day but there are times when you're
23:31times when you're writing it doesn't happen every day but there are times when you're
23:31times when you're writing it doesn't happen every day but there are times when you're
23:31times when you're writing it doesn't happen every day but there are times when you're
23:34writing where you're just not thinking but one sentence after another after another and you
23:34writing where you're just not thinking but one sentence after another after another and you
23:34writing where you're just not thinking but one sentence after another after another and you
23:34writing where you're just not thinking but one sentence after another after another and you
23:34writing where you're just not thinking but one sentence after another after another and you
23:38don't know where they're coming from right and it's a it's a wonderful feeling well
23:38don't know where they're coming from right and it's a it's a wonderful feeling well
23:38don't know where they're coming from right and it's a it's a wonderful feeling well
23:38don't know where they're coming from right and it's a it's a wonderful feeling well
23:38don't know where they're coming from right and it's a it's a wonderful feeling well
23:43stephen king used to get obliterated so that he could get to that spot like
23:43stephen king used to get obliterated so that he could get to that spot like
23:43stephen king used to get obliterated so that he could get to that spot like
23:43stephen king used to get obliterated so that he could get to that spot like
23:43stephen king used to get obliterated so that he could get to that spot like
23:47there's books what do you mean obliterated like cocaine alcohol like his best work like
23:47there's books what do you mean obliterated like cocaine alcohol like his best work like
23:47there's books what do you mean obliterated like cocaine alcohol like his best work like
23:47there's books what do you mean obliterated like cocaine alcohol like his best work like
23:47there's books what do you mean obliterated like cocaine alcohol like his best work like
23:52he wrote cujo he didn't even remember it he didn't remember any of it he
23:52he wrote cujo he didn't even remember it he didn't remember any of it he
23:52he wrote cujo he didn't even remember it he didn't remember any of it he
23:52he wrote cujo he didn't even remember it he didn't remember any of it he
23:52he wrote cujo he didn't even remember it he didn't remember any of it he
23:55was obliterated he would just drink like cases of beer and do lines of coke
23:55was obliterated he would just drink like cases of beer and do lines of coke
23:55was obliterated he would just drink like cases of beer and do lines of coke
23:55was obliterated he would just drink like cases of beer and do lines of coke
23:55was obliterated he would just drink like cases of beer and do lines of coke
23:59and write this fucking insane fiction and he didn't know where it was coming from
23:59and write this fucking insane fiction and he didn't know where it was coming from
23:59and write this fucking insane fiction and he didn't know where it was coming from
23:59and write this fucking insane fiction and he didn't know where it was coming from
23:59and write this fucking insane fiction and he didn't know where it was coming from
24:04you know but i mean he showed up every day and sat down with the
24:04you know but i mean he showed up every day and sat down with the
24:04you know but i mean he showed up every day and sat down with the
24:04you know but i mean he showed up every day and sat down with the
24:04you know but i mean he showed up every day and sat down with the
24:09computer and then it all came out and it's such a weird mix of being
24:09computer and then it all came out and it's such a weird mix of being
24:09computer and then it all came out and it's such a weird mix of being
24:09computer and then it all came out and it's such a weird mix of being
24:09computer and then it all came out and it's such a weird mix of being
24:13disciplined and yeah but it's very common amongst writers yeah like connor thompson same sort
24:13disciplined and yeah but it's very common amongst writers yeah like connor thompson same sort
24:13disciplined and yeah but it's very common amongst writers yeah like connor thompson same sort
24:13disciplined and yeah but it's very common amongst writers yeah like connor thompson same sort
24:13disciplined and yeah but it's very common amongst writers yeah like connor thompson same sort
24:19of situation well a lot of writers do that after they've written they don't i
24:19of situation well a lot of writers do that after they've written they don't i
24:19of situation well a lot of writers do that after they've written they don't i
24:19of situation well a lot of writers do that after they've written they don't i
24:19of situation well a lot of writers do that after they've written they don't i
24:23don't know how many writers write under the influence oh i know but there's yeah
24:23don't know how many writers write under the influence oh i know but there's yeah
24:23don't know how many writers write under the influence oh i know but there's yeah
24:23don't know how many writers write under the influence oh i know but there's yeah
24:23don't know how many writers write under the influence oh i know but there's yeah
24:27yeah i know quite a few that's interesting i know a lot of right under
24:27yeah i know quite a few that's interesting i know a lot of right under
24:27yeah i know quite a few that's interesting i know a lot of right under
24:27yeah i know quite a few that's interesting i know a lot of right under
24:27yeah i know quite a few that's interesting i know a lot of right under
24:31the influence of adderall yeah well and for me it's caffeine i mean i have
24:31the influence of adderall yeah well and for me it's caffeine i mean i have
24:31the influence of adderall yeah well and for me it's caffeine i mean i have
24:31the influence of adderall yeah well and for me it's caffeine i mean i have
24:31the influence of adderall yeah well and for me it's caffeine i mean i have
24:36a cup of coffee going the whole time i'm writing and that kind of keeps
24:36a cup of coffee going the whole time i'm writing and that kind of keeps
24:36a cup of coffee going the whole time i'm writing and that kind of keeps
24:36a cup of coffee going the whole time i'm writing and that kind of keeps
24:36a cup of coffee going the whole time i'm writing and that kind of keeps
24:39me caffeine is a is a focus chemical it's it's uh it's it definitely encourages
24:39me caffeine is a is a focus chemical it's it's uh it's it definitely encourages
24:39me caffeine is a is a focus chemical it's it's uh it's it definitely encourages
24:39me caffeine is a is a focus chemical it's it's uh it's it definitely encourages
24:39me caffeine is a is a focus chemical it's it's uh it's it definitely encourages
24:45this spotlight consciousness well you talked about how you took this long break from caffeine
24:45this spotlight consciousness well you talked about how you took this long break from caffeine
24:45this spotlight consciousness well you talked about how you took this long break from caffeine
24:45this spotlight consciousness well you talked about how you took this long break from caffeine
24:45this spotlight consciousness well you talked about how you took this long break from caffeine
24:50and then when you took like it again it was almost like a psychedelic you
24:50and then when you took like it again it was almost like a psychedelic you
24:50and then when you took like it again it was almost like a psychedelic you
24:50and then when you took like it again it was almost like a psychedelic you
24:50and then when you took like it again it was almost like a psychedelic you
24:53it was crazy how great it was no it really was it was like one
24:53it was crazy how great it was no it really was it was like one
24:53it was crazy how great it was no it really was it was like one
24:53it was crazy how great it was no it really was it was like one
24:53it was crazy how great it was no it really was it was like one
24:58of the best drug experiences i've had i was three months off caffeine i did
24:58of the best drug experiences i've had i was three months off caffeine i did
24:58of the best drug experiences i've had i was three months off caffeine i did
24:58of the best drug experiences i've had i was three months off caffeine i did
24:58of the best drug experiences i've had i was three months off caffeine i did
25:02this fast for this book i was writing and uh and then i was like
25:02this fast for this book i was writing and uh and then i was like
25:02this fast for this book i was writing and uh and then i was like
25:02this fast for this book i was writing and uh and then i was like
25:02this fast for this book i was writing and uh and then i was like
25:06okay now i'm gonna have a cup i was like wow and i and i
25:06okay now i'm gonna have a cup i was like wow and i and i
25:06okay now i'm gonna have a cup i was like wow and i and i
25:06okay now i'm gonna have a cup i was like wow and i and i
25:06okay now i'm gonna have a cup i was like wow and i and i
25:10tried to hold on to that you know i said all right i'm i'm only
25:10tried to hold on to that you know i said all right i'm i'm only
25:10tried to hold on to that you know i said all right i'm i'm only
25:10tried to hold on to that you know i said all right i'm i'm only
25:10tried to hold on to that you know i said all right i'm i'm only
25:13gonna have coffee once a week and not build up tolerance uh and and i
25:13gonna have coffee once a week and not build up tolerance uh and and i
25:13gonna have coffee once a week and not build up tolerance uh and and i
25:13gonna have coffee once a week and not build up tolerance uh and and i
25:13gonna have coffee once a week and not build up tolerance uh and and i
25:19i stuck to that for a few weeks and then i had like a thursday
25:19i stuck to that for a few weeks and then i had like a thursday
25:19i stuck to that for a few weeks and then i had like a thursday
25:19i stuck to that for a few weeks and then i had like a thursday
25:19i stuck to that for a few weeks and then i had like a thursday
25:22deadline i'll move it up a couple days and a slippery slope and then i
25:22deadline i'll move it up a couple days and a slippery slope and then i
25:22deadline i'll move it up a couple days and a slippery slope and then i
25:22deadline i'll move it up a couple days and a slippery slope and then i
25:22deadline i'll move it up a couple days and a slippery slope and then i
25:27was back to every day i like it i like a big french press where
25:27was back to every day i like it i like a big french press where
25:27was back to every day i like it i like a big french press where
25:27was back to every day i like it i like a big french press where
25:27was back to every day i like it i like a big french press where
25:33i could put a lot of grinds in there it's super strong when i'm writing
25:33i could put a lot of grinds in there it's super strong when i'm writing
25:33i could put a lot of grinds in there it's super strong when i'm writing
25:33i could put a lot of grinds in there it's super strong when i'm writing
25:33i could put a lot of grinds in there it's super strong when i'm writing
25:37it's like whoa it just it just it makes all the difference locks you in
25:37it's like whoa it just it just it makes all the difference locks you in
25:37it's like whoa it just it just it makes all the difference locks you in
25:37it's like whoa it just it just it makes all the difference locks you in
25:37it's like whoa it just it just it makes all the difference locks you in
25:41yeah i had trouble writing that that three -month period i really did i imagine
25:41yeah i had trouble writing that that three -month period i really did i imagine
25:41yeah i had trouble writing that that three -month period i really did i imagine
25:41yeah i had trouble writing that that three -month period i really did i imagine
25:41yeah i had trouble writing that that three -month period i really did i imagine
25:45my focus i i felt like i so i have pretty good concentration i never
25:45my focus i i felt like i so i have pretty good concentration i never
25:45my focus i i felt like i so i have pretty good concentration i never
25:45my focus i i felt like i so i have pretty good concentration i never
25:45my focus i i felt like i so i have pretty good concentration i never
25:50had adhd i had it for those three months that's crazy stephen king said the
25:50had adhd i had it for those three months that's crazy stephen king said the
25:50had adhd i had it for those three months that's crazy stephen king said the
25:50had adhd i had it for those three months that's crazy stephen king said the
25:50had adhd i had it for those three months that's crazy stephen king said the
25:55biggest uh problem for him was quitting smoking he said when he quit smoking cigarettes
25:55biggest uh problem for him was quitting smoking he said when he quit smoking cigarettes
25:55biggest uh problem for him was quitting smoking he said when he quit smoking cigarettes
25:55biggest uh problem for him was quitting smoking he said when he quit smoking cigarettes
25:55biggest uh problem for him was quitting smoking he said when he quit smoking cigarettes
26:00it's like he really felt a slowdown in his well that yeah it's that ritual
26:00it's like he really felt a slowdown in his well that yeah it's that ritual
26:00it's like he really felt a slowdown in his well that yeah it's that ritual
26:00it's like he really felt a slowdown in his well that yeah it's that ritual
26:00it's like he really felt a slowdown in his well that yeah it's that ritual
26:05it's the drug too and and and nicotine is another focus drug definitely like speed
26:05it's the drug too and and and nicotine is another focus drug definitely like speed
26:05it's the drug too and and and nicotine is another focus drug definitely like speed
26:05it's the drug too and and and nicotine is another focus drug definitely like speed
26:05it's the drug too and and and nicotine is another focus drug definitely like speed
26:10or something um but it's also writing so much about ritual like i got my
26:10or something um but it's also writing so much about ritual like i got my
26:10or something um but it's also writing so much about ritual like i got my
26:10or something um but it's also writing so much about ritual like i got my
26:10or something um but it's also writing so much about ritual like i got my
26:15coffee here and my cigarette here and between every paragraph yeah so um changing those
26:15coffee here and my cigarette here and between every paragraph yeah so um changing those
26:15coffee here and my cigarette here and between every paragraph yeah so um changing those
26:15coffee here and my cigarette here and between every paragraph yeah so um changing those
26:15coffee here and my cigarette here and between every paragraph yeah so um changing those
26:21rituals is really hard i mean i only smoked into my 20s and uh and
26:21rituals is really hard i mean i only smoked into my 20s and uh and
26:21rituals is really hard i mean i only smoked into my 20s and uh and
26:21rituals is really hard i mean i only smoked into my 20s and uh and
26:21rituals is really hard i mean i only smoked into my 20s and uh and
26:27quitting you know made it very hard to write for a while really yeah yeah
26:27quitting you know made it very hard to write for a while really yeah yeah
26:27quitting you know made it very hard to write for a while really yeah yeah
26:27quitting you know made it very hard to write for a while really yeah yeah
26:27quitting you know made it very hard to write for a while really yeah yeah
26:31it's interesting it's a very ritualized process well i worry about the people that like
26:31it's interesting it's a very ritualized process well i worry about the people that like
26:31it's interesting it's a very ritualized process well i worry about the people that like
26:31it's interesting it's a very ritualized process well i worry about the people that like
26:31it's interesting it's a very ritualized process well i worry about the people that like
26:36especially journalists i know quite a few journalists that have an adderall problem yeah because
26:36especially journalists i know quite a few journalists that have an adderall problem yeah because
26:36especially journalists i know quite a few journalists that have an adderall problem yeah because
26:36especially journalists i know quite a few journalists that have an adderall problem yeah because
26:36especially journalists i know quite a few journalists that have an adderall problem yeah because
26:41it's just like you got a deadline 2 000 words by you know 2 a
26:41it's just like you got a deadline 2 000 words by you know 2 a
26:41it's just like you got a deadline 2 000 words by you know 2 a
26:41it's just like you got a deadline 2 000 words by you know 2 a
26:41it's just like you got a deadline 2 000 words by you know 2 a
26:45.m let's go and that's that's the drug for that yeah definitely but it's just
26:45.m let's go and that's that's the drug for that yeah definitely but it's just
26:45.m let's go and that's that's the drug for that yeah definitely but it's just
26:45.m let's go and that's that's the drug for that yeah definitely but it's just
26:45.m let's go and that's that's the drug for that yeah definitely but it's just
26:50it's such a crutch yeah and you can't sustain it long term and that definitely
26:50it's such a crutch yeah and you can't sustain it long term and that definitely
26:50it's such a crutch yeah and you can't sustain it long term and that definitely
26:50it's such a crutch yeah and you can't sustain it long term and that definitely
26:50it's such a crutch yeah and you can't sustain it long term and that definitely
26:56messes with your the way you drink oh yeah i think over time yeah it
26:56messes with your the way you drink oh yeah i think over time yeah it
26:56messes with your the way you drink oh yeah i think over time yeah it
26:56messes with your the way you drink oh yeah i think over time yeah it
26:56messes with your the way you drink oh yeah i think over time yeah it
27:02has to yeah i mean it's amphetamines right yeah no that's why caffeine is such
27:02has to yeah i mean it's amphetamines right yeah no that's why caffeine is such
27:02has to yeah i mean it's amphetamines right yeah no that's why caffeine is such
27:02has to yeah i mean it's amphetamines right yeah no that's why caffeine is such
27:02has to yeah i mean it's amphetamines right yeah no that's why caffeine is such
27:07a good drug it doesn't have a lot of i mean you can overdo it
27:07a good drug it doesn't have a lot of i mean you can overdo it
27:07a good drug it doesn't have a lot of i mean you can overdo it
27:07a good drug it doesn't have a lot of i mean you can overdo it
27:07a good drug it doesn't have a lot of i mean you can overdo it
27:10i think i think it improves your health and mental health up to about eight
27:10i think i think it improves your health and mental health up to about eight
27:10i think i think it improves your health and mental health up to about eight
27:10i think i think it improves your health and mental health up to about eight
27:10i think i think it improves your health and mental health up to about eight
27:15cups a day after that your risk of suicide and depression go up did you
27:15cups a day after that your risk of suicide and depression go up did you
27:15cups a day after that your risk of suicide and depression go up did you
27:15cups a day after that your risk of suicide and depression go up did you
27:15cups a day after that your risk of suicide and depression go up did you
27:20have any communication with any monks or any people who do tm or did you
27:20have any communication with any monks or any people who do tm or did you
27:20have any communication with any monks or any people who do tm or did you
27:20have any communication with any monks or any people who do tm or did you
27:20have any communication with any monks or any people who do tm or did you
27:27yeah i had some interesting experiences around that so there's a long section on the
27:27yeah i had some interesting experiences around that so there's a long section on the
27:27yeah i had some interesting experiences around that so there's a long section on the
27:27yeah i had some interesting experiences around that so there's a long section on the
27:27yeah i had some interesting experiences around that so there's a long section on the
27:32self which is one of the more interesting um manifestations of consciousness right i mean
27:32self which is one of the more interesting um manifestations of consciousness right i mean
27:32self which is one of the more interesting um manifestations of consciousness right i mean
27:32self which is one of the more interesting um manifestations of consciousness right i mean
27:32self which is one of the more interesting um manifestations of consciousness right i mean
27:38it's like that we have this idea that we're there's a continuity right that who
27:38it's like that we have this idea that we're there's a continuity right that who
27:38it's like that we have this idea that we're there's a continuity right that who
27:38it's like that we have this idea that we're there's a continuity right that who
27:38it's like that we have this idea that we're there's a continuity right that who
27:44you are now is has some golden thread attaching you to your 13 year old
27:44you are now is has some golden thread attaching you to your 13 year old
27:44you are now is has some golden thread attaching you to your 13 year old
27:44you are now is has some golden thread attaching you to your 13 year old
27:44you are now is has some golden thread attaching you to your 13 year old
27:48self which is really weird because your body is every cell has turned over many
27:48self which is really weird because your body is every cell has turned over many
27:48self which is really weird because your body is every cell has turned over many
27:48self which is really weird because your body is every cell has turned over many
27:48self which is really weird because your body is every cell has turned over many
27:52many times you've changed in all sorts of ways um but this continuity is really
27:52many times you've changed in all sorts of ways um but this continuity is really
27:52many times you've changed in all sorts of ways um but this continuity is really
27:52many times you've changed in all sorts of ways um but this continuity is really
27:52many times you've changed in all sorts of ways um but this continuity is really
27:57important to us and uh you know the buddhists think the self is an illusion
27:57important to us and uh you know the buddhists think the self is an illusion
27:57important to us and uh you know the buddhists think the self is an illusion
27:57important to us and uh you know the buddhists think the self is an illusion
27:57important to us and uh you know the buddhists think the self is an illusion
28:02and i i interviewed a couple of them uh methu ricard is a french nepalese
28:02and i i interviewed a couple of them uh methu ricard is a french nepalese
28:02and i i interviewed a couple of them uh methu ricard is a french nepalese
28:02and i i interviewed a couple of them uh methu ricard is a french nepalese
28:02and i i interviewed a couple of them uh methu ricard is a french nepalese
28:09monk in his 80s uh who lives in uh nepal and he's written some really
28:09monk in his 80s uh who lives in uh nepal and he's written some really
28:09monk in his 80s uh who lives in uh nepal and he's written some really
28:09monk in his 80s uh who lives in uh nepal and he's written some really
28:09monk in his 80s uh who lives in uh nepal and he's written some really
28:15interesting things on the self and uh i i said uh i'm i'm really curious
28:15interesting things on the self and uh i i said uh i'm i'm really curious
28:15interesting things on the self and uh i i said uh i'm i'm really curious
28:15interesting things on the self and uh i i said uh i'm i'm really curious
28:15interesting things on the self and uh i i said uh i'm i'm really curious
28:20about how you can find out for yourself whether the self is real um and
28:20about how you can find out for yourself whether the self is real um and
28:20about how you can find out for yourself whether the self is real um and
28:20about how you can find out for yourself whether the self is real um and
28:20about how you can find out for yourself whether the self is real um and
28:26you know famously there was a philosopher in the 18th century david hume who wanted
28:26you know famously there was a philosopher in the 18th century david hume who wanted
28:26you know famously there was a philosopher in the 18th century david hume who wanted
28:26you know famously there was a philosopher in the 18th century david hume who wanted
28:26you know famously there was a philosopher in the 18th century david hume who wanted
28:31to write about the self and and he thought well i'm going to introspect to
28:31to write about the self and and he thought well i'm going to introspect to
28:31to write about the self and and he thought well i'm going to introspect to
28:31to write about the self and and he thought well i'm going to introspect to
28:31to write about the self and and he thought well i'm going to introspect to
28:35see but what i can learn about the self and he goes into his mind
28:35see but what i can learn about the self and he goes into his mind
28:35see but what i can learn about the self and he goes into his mind
28:35see but what i can learn about the self and he goes into his mind
28:35see but what i can learn about the self and he goes into his mind
28:38you know in a kind of meditation and he said i found all sorts of
28:38you know in a kind of meditation and he said i found all sorts of
28:38you know in a kind of meditation and he said i found all sorts of
28:38you know in a kind of meditation and he said i found all sorts of
28:38you know in a kind of meditation and he said i found all sorts of
28:42perceptions and feelings and thoughts but i didn't find a thinker i didn't find a
28:42perceptions and feelings and thoughts but i didn't find a thinker i didn't find a
28:42perceptions and feelings and thoughts but i didn't find a thinker i didn't find a
28:42perceptions and feelings and thoughts but i didn't find a thinker i didn't find a
28:42perceptions and feelings and thoughts but i didn't find a thinker i didn't find a
28:47perceiver and i didn't find a feeler there's like nobody home and it's a really
28:47perceiver and i didn't find a feeler there's like nobody home and it's a really
28:47perceiver and i didn't find a feeler there's like nobody home and it's a really
28:47perceiver and i didn't find a feeler there's like nobody home and it's a really
28:47perceiver and i didn't find a feeler there's like nobody home and it's a really
28:52interesting exercise to do because you will find there's nobody home there's just the thoughts
28:52interesting exercise to do because you will find there's nobody home there's just the thoughts
28:52interesting exercise to do because you will find there's nobody home there's just the thoughts
28:52interesting exercise to do because you will find there's nobody home there's just the thoughts
28:52interesting exercise to do because you will find there's nobody home there's just the thoughts
28:57and and who's thinking them not clear and anyway so this buddhist um monk said
28:57and and who's thinking them not clear and anyway so this buddhist um monk said
28:57and and who's thinking them not clear and anyway so this buddhist um monk said
28:57and and who's thinking them not clear and anyway so this buddhist um monk said
28:57and and who's thinking them not clear and anyway so this buddhist um monk said
29:05are there any meditations that help with this and he said yeah and he gave
29:05are there any meditations that help with this and he said yeah and he gave
29:05are there any meditations that help with this and he said yeah and he gave
29:05are there any meditations that help with this and he said yeah and he gave
29:05are there any meditations that help with this and he said yeah and he gave
29:09me one and he says think of your mind as a house with many rooms
29:09me one and he says think of your mind as a house with many rooms
29:09me one and he says think of your mind as a house with many rooms
29:09me one and he says think of your mind as a house with many rooms
29:09me one and he says think of your mind as a house with many rooms
29:13and um there's a thief somewhere in the house and go room by room in
29:13and um there's a thief somewhere in the house and go room by room in
29:13and um there's a thief somewhere in the house and go room by room in
29:13and um there's a thief somewhere in the house and go room by room in
29:13and um there's a thief somewhere in the house and go room by room in
29:20your head and look for the thief and you will find no thief and then
29:20your head and look for the thief and you will find no thief and then
29:20your head and look for the thief and you will find no thief and then
29:20your head and look for the thief and you will find no thief and then
29:20your head and look for the thief and you will find no thief and then
29:24sit with that that finding um and that thief is the self and um uh
29:24sit with that that finding um and that thief is the self and um uh
29:24sit with that that finding um and that thief is the self and um uh
29:24sit with that that finding um and that thief is the self and um uh
29:24sit with that that finding um and that thief is the self and um uh
29:31so i did it twice the first time i did it why does the self
29:31so i did it twice the first time i did it why does the self
29:31so i did it twice the first time i did it why does the self
29:31so i did it twice the first time i did it why does the self
29:31so i did it twice the first time i did it why does the self
29:36have to be a thief i don't know it's just a metaphor i know because
29:36have to be a thief i don't know it's just a metaphor i know because
29:36have to be a thief i don't know it's just a metaphor i know because
29:36have to be a thief i don't know it's just a metaphor i know because
29:36have to be a thief i don't know it's just a metaphor i know because
29:39he's a negative take on a baseball bat you have a gun like you're looking
29:39he's a negative take on a baseball bat you have a gun like you're looking
29:39he's a negative take on a baseball bat you have a gun like you're looking
29:39he's a negative take on a baseball bat you have a gun like you're looking
29:39he's a negative take on a baseball bat you have a gun like you're looking
29:42for someone in your house that's kind of crazy i know you're not armed um
29:42for someone in your house that's kind of crazy i know you're not armed um
29:42for someone in your house that's kind of crazy i know you're not armed um
29:42for someone in your house that's kind of crazy i know you're not armed um
29:42for someone in your house that's kind of crazy i know you're not armed um
29:45anyway uh so the first time i did it this is kind of weird i
29:45anyway uh so the first time i did it this is kind of weird i
29:45anyway uh so the first time i did it this is kind of weird i
29:45anyway uh so the first time i did it this is kind of weird i
29:45anyway uh so the first time i did it this is kind of weird i
29:50was interviewing this hypnotist at stanford named david spiegel and he's a psychiatrist who uses
29:50was interviewing this hypnotist at stanford named david spiegel and he's a psychiatrist who uses
29:50was interviewing this hypnotist at stanford named david spiegel and he's a psychiatrist who uses
29:50was interviewing this hypnotist at stanford named david spiegel and he's a psychiatrist who uses
29:50was interviewing this hypnotist at stanford named david spiegel and he's a psychiatrist who uses
29:57hypnotism really interesting guy and he uses hypnotism to help people with multiple personality disorders
29:57hypnotism really interesting guy and he uses hypnotism to help people with multiple personality disorders
29:57hypnotism really interesting guy and he uses hypnotism to help people with multiple personality disorders
29:57hypnotism really interesting guy and he uses hypnotism to help people with multiple personality disorders
29:57hypnotism really interesting guy and he uses hypnotism to help people with multiple personality disorders
30:03he can actually make them change which person they're accessing you know these are people
30:03he can actually make them change which person they're accessing you know these are people
30:03he can actually make them change which person they're accessing you know these are people
30:03he can actually make them change which person they're accessing you know these are people
30:03he can actually make them change which person they're accessing you know these are people
30:08whose whose consciousness contains it could be 20 different people um and i said could
30:08whose whose consciousness contains it could be 20 different people um and i said could
30:08whose whose consciousness contains it could be 20 different people um and i said could
30:08whose whose consciousness contains it could be 20 different people um and i said could
30:08whose whose consciousness contains it could be 20 different people um and i said could
30:15we do a test um and can you put me under hypnotize me and then
30:15we do a test um and can you put me under hypnotize me and then
30:15we do a test um and can you put me under hypnotize me and then
30:15we do a test um and can you put me under hypnotize me and then
30:15we do a test um and can you put me under hypnotize me and then
30:20i wanted to do that exercise going through the house so he did first thing
30:20i wanted to do that exercise going through the house so he did first thing
30:20i wanted to do that exercise going through the house so he did first thing
30:20i wanted to do that exercise going through the house so he did first thing
30:20i wanted to do that exercise going through the house so he did first thing
30:25he does is um i don't know if you have you ever been hypnotized yes
30:25he does is um i don't know if you have you ever been hypnotized yes
30:25he does is um i don't know if you have you ever been hypnotized yes
30:25he does is um i don't know if you have you ever been hypnotized yes
30:25he does is um i don't know if you have you ever been hypnotized yes
30:28yeah okay for giving up cigarettes or something no no i have a friend who
30:28yeah okay for giving up cigarettes or something no no i have a friend who
30:28yeah okay for giving up cigarettes or something no no i have a friend who
30:28yeah okay for giving up cigarettes or something no no i have a friend who
30:28yeah okay for giving up cigarettes or something no no i have a friend who
30:32is my friend vinnie shorman he is a mental coach and um a hypnotist he
30:32is my friend vinnie shorman he is a mental coach and um a hypnotist he
30:32is my friend vinnie shorman he is a mental coach and um a hypnotist he
30:32is my friend vinnie shorman he is a mental coach and um a hypnotist he
30:32is my friend vinnie shorman he is a mental coach and um a hypnotist he
30:39works with fighters oh okay i i had him on the podcast a few times
30:39works with fighters oh okay i i had him on the podcast a few times
30:39works with fighters oh okay i i had him on the podcast a few times
30:39works with fighters oh okay i i had him on the podcast a few times
30:39works with fighters oh okay i i had him on the podcast a few times
30:42and i was just curious as to what the experience was like so i said
30:42and i was just curious as to what the experience was like so i said
30:42and i was just curious as to what the experience was like so i said
30:42and i was just curious as to what the experience was like so i said
30:42and i was just curious as to what the experience was like so i said
30:45well and he said well is there anything you want to say oh i kind
30:45well and he said well is there anything you want to say oh i kind
30:45well and he said well is there anything you want to say oh i kind
30:45well and he said well is there anything you want to say oh i kind
30:45well and he said well is there anything you want to say oh i kind
30:49of procrastinate too much there's a few things that i do that i don't like
30:49of procrastinate too much there's a few things that i do that i don't like
30:49of procrastinate too much there's a few things that i do that i don't like
30:49of procrastinate too much there's a few things that i do that i don't like
30:49of procrastinate too much there's a few things that i do that i don't like
30:52you know i'm kind of lazy about certain things i like to find out like
30:52you know i'm kind of lazy about certain things i like to find out like
30:52you know i'm kind of lazy about certain things i like to find out like
30:52you know i'm kind of lazy about certain things i like to find out like
30:52you know i'm kind of lazy about certain things i like to find out like
30:56what is that like what what's the heart of that um what i was shocked
30:56what is that like what what's the heart of that um what i was shocked
30:56what is that like what what's the heart of that um what i was shocked
30:56what is that like what what's the heart of that um what i was shocked
30:56what is that like what what's the heart of that um what i was shocked
31:01about the experience of being hypnotized was that um first of all that it works
31:01about the experience of being hypnotized was that um first of all that it works
31:01about the experience of being hypnotized was that um first of all that it works
31:01about the experience of being hypnotized was that um first of all that it works
31:01about the experience of being hypnotized was that um first of all that it works
31:06that you really are and very bizarre altered state but that I was very aware
31:06that you really are and very bizarre altered state but that I was very aware
31:06that you really are and very bizarre altered state but that I was very aware
31:06that you really are and very bizarre altered state but that I was very aware
31:06that you really are and very bizarre altered state but that I was very aware
31:11that I was in this altered state but I didn't have the the desire to
31:11that I was in this altered state but I didn't have the the desire to
31:11that I was in this altered state but I didn't have the the desire to
31:11that I was in this altered state but I didn't have the the desire to
31:11that I was in this altered state but I didn't have the the desire to
31:15get out of it yeah first of all Vinnie's a friend I felt really relaxed
31:15get out of it yeah first of all Vinnie's a friend I felt really relaxed
31:15get out of it yeah first of all Vinnie's a friend I felt really relaxed
31:15get out of it yeah first of all Vinnie's a friend I felt really relaxed
31:15get out of it yeah first of all Vinnie's a friend I felt really relaxed
31:18I was in my studio just sitting on a couch I was chill um but
31:18I was in my studio just sitting on a couch I was chill um but
31:18I was in my studio just sitting on a couch I was chill um but
31:18I was in my studio just sitting on a couch I was chill um but
31:18I was in my studio just sitting on a couch I was chill um but
31:22it was uh very strange it's like uh you like uh almost you know to
31:22it was uh very strange it's like uh you like uh almost you know to
31:22it was uh very strange it's like uh you like uh almost you know to
31:22it was uh very strange it's like uh you like uh almost you know to
31:22it was uh very strange it's like uh you like uh almost you know to
31:30use the room metaphor it was almost like I was in a room that I
31:30use the room metaphor it was almost like I was in a room that I
31:30use the room metaphor it was almost like I was in a room that I
31:30use the room metaphor it was almost like I was in a room that I
31:30use the room metaphor it was almost like I was in a room that I
31:33didn't know I had interesting yeah it's like a trance it's a light trance a
31:33didn't know I had interesting yeah it's like a trance it's a light trance a
31:33didn't know I had interesting yeah it's like a trance it's a light trance a
31:33didn't know I had interesting yeah it's like a trance it's a light trance a
31:33didn't know I had interesting yeah it's like a trance it's a light trance a
31:37light trance but you know it's not like I would like go kill the president
31:37light trance but you know it's not like I would like go kill the president
31:37light trance but you know it's not like I would like go kill the president
31:37light trance but you know it's not like I would like go kill the president
31:37light trance but you know it's not like I would like go kill the president
31:42like it's not like I would be like okay like I know they can't make
31:42like it's not like I would be like okay like I know they can't make
31:42like it's not like I would be like okay like I know they can't make
31:42like it's not like I would be like okay like I know they can't make
31:42like it's not like I would be like okay like I know they can't make
31:46you do things you don't want to do that's that's the myth but what do
31:46you do things you don't want to do that's that's the myth but what do
31:46you do things you don't want to do that's that's the myth but what do
31:46you do things you don't want to do that's that's the myth but what do
31:46you do things you don't want to do that's that's the myth but what do
31:49you think they were doing when they were doing that MKUltra stuff when they were
31:49you think they were doing when they were doing that MKUltra stuff when they were
31:49you think they were doing when they were doing that MKUltra stuff when they were
31:49you think they were doing when they were doing that MKUltra stuff when they were
31:49you think they were doing when they were doing that MKUltra stuff when they were
31:52trying to figure out if they could program control yeah yeah no they were they
31:52trying to figure out if they could program control yeah yeah no they were they
31:52trying to figure out if they could program control yeah yeah no they were they
31:52trying to figure out if they could program control yeah yeah no they were they
31:52trying to figure out if they could program control yeah yeah no they were they
31:56were they had the idea well let me just finish the story and then we'll
31:56were they had the idea well let me just finish the story and then we'll
31:56were they had the idea well let me just finish the story and then we'll
31:56were they had the idea well let me just finish the story and then we'll
31:56were they had the idea well let me just finish the story and then we'll
32:01get back to that's what I do I go all over the place I'm sorry
32:01get back to that's what I do I go all over the place I'm sorry
32:01get back to that's what I do I go all over the place I'm sorry
32:01get back to that's what I do I go all over the place I'm sorry
32:01get back to that's what I do I go all over the place I'm sorry
32:05but hypnosis so so he puts me in yeah it's a real thing and I
32:05but hypnosis so so he puts me in yeah it's a real thing and I
32:05but hypnosis so so he puts me in yeah it's a real thing and I
32:05but hypnosis so so he puts me in yeah it's a real thing and I
32:05but hypnosis so so he puts me in yeah it's a real thing and I
32:10didn't realize it and it can be very therapeutic but not everyone can be hypnotized
32:10didn't realize it and it can be very therapeutic but not everyone can be hypnotized
32:10didn't realize it and it can be very therapeutic but not everyone can be hypnotized
32:10didn't realize it and it can be very therapeutic but not everyone can be hypnotized
32:10didn't realize it and it can be very therapeutic but not everyone can be hypnotized
32:13right the first thing he does is a sort of a test and uh I
32:13right the first thing he does is a sort of a test and uh I
32:13right the first thing he does is a sort of a test and uh I
32:13right the first thing he does is a sort of a test and uh I
32:13right the first thing he does is a sort of a test and uh I
32:18scored like nine out of ten so I'm pretty easy to hypnotize what is the
32:18scored like nine out of ten so I'm pretty easy to hypnotize what is the
32:18scored like nine out of ten so I'm pretty easy to hypnotize what is the
32:18scored like nine out of ten so I'm pretty easy to hypnotize what is the
32:18scored like nine out of ten so I'm pretty easy to hypnotize what is the
32:21what's the thing that would keep you from being hypnotized I don't know but some
32:21what's the thing that would keep you from being hypnotized I don't know but some
32:21what's the thing that would keep you from being hypnotized I don't know but some
32:21what's the thing that would keep you from being hypnotized I don't know but some
32:21what's the thing that would keep you from being hypnotized I don't know but some
32:25there's a real variation among humans in their hypnotizability is the word they use and
32:25there's a real variation among humans in their hypnotizability is the word they use and
32:25there's a real variation among humans in their hypnotizability is the word they use and
32:25there's a real variation among humans in their hypnotizability is the word they use and
32:25there's a real variation among humans in their hypnotizability is the word they use and
32:31uh I don't know what would is it control freaks that's a good question it
32:31uh I don't know what would is it control freaks that's a good question it
32:31uh I don't know what would is it control freaks that's a good question it
32:31uh I don't know what would is it control freaks that's a good question it
32:31uh I don't know what would is it control freaks that's a good question it
32:35could well be I'm not sure I could I could ask David Spiegel definitely super
32:35could well be I'm not sure I could I could ask David Spiegel definitely super
32:35could well be I'm not sure I could I could ask David Spiegel definitely super
32:35could well be I'm not sure I could I could ask David Spiegel definitely super
32:35could well be I'm not sure I could I could ask David Spiegel definitely super
32:38skeptical people like this is bullshit the whole time they're doing yeah maybe I don't
32:38skeptical people like this is bullshit the whole time they're doing yeah maybe I don't
32:38skeptical people like this is bullshit the whole time they're doing yeah maybe I don't
32:38skeptical people like this is bullshit the whole time they're doing yeah maybe I don't
32:38skeptical people like this is bullshit the whole time they're doing yeah maybe I don't
32:43know if it's about resistance or just the nature of your mind or how suggestible
32:43know if it's about resistance or just the nature of your mind or how suggestible
32:43know if it's about resistance or just the nature of your mind or how suggestible
32:43know if it's about resistance or just the nature of your mind or how suggestible
32:43know if it's about resistance or just the nature of your mind or how suggestible
32:47you are you know it may be something like that so he puts me into
32:47you are you know it may be something like that so he puts me into
32:47you are you know it may be something like that so he puts me into
32:47you are you know it may be something like that so he puts me into
32:47you are you know it may be something like that so he puts me into
32:51this uh hypnotic trance he's this wonderful baritone voice which helps a lot and um
32:51this uh hypnotic trance he's this wonderful baritone voice which helps a lot and um
32:51this uh hypnotic trance he's this wonderful baritone voice which helps a lot and um
32:51this uh hypnotic trance he's this wonderful baritone voice which helps a lot and um
32:51this uh hypnotic trance he's this wonderful baritone voice which helps a lot and um
32:56and I start going from room to room thinking I'm not going to find anything
32:56and I start going from room to room thinking I'm not going to find anything
32:56and I start going from room to room thinking I'm not going to find anything
32:56and I start going from room to room thinking I'm not going to find anything
32:56and I start going from room to room thinking I'm not going to find anything
33:01but in every room I find a version of myself I find the 13 year
33:01but in every room I find a version of myself I find the 13 year
33:01but in every room I find a version of myself I find the 13 year
33:01but in every room I find a version of myself I find the 13 year
33:01but in every room I find a version of myself I find the 13 year
33:06old bar mitzvah boy I find the you know the 22 year old you know
33:06old bar mitzvah boy I find the you know the 22 year old you know
33:06old bar mitzvah boy I find the you know the 22 year old you know
33:06old bar mitzvah boy I find the you know the 22 year old you know
33:06old bar mitzvah boy I find the you know the 22 year old you know
33:11college graduate moving to New York City I find the 32 year old father of
33:11college graduate moving to New York City I find the 32 year old father of
33:11college graduate moving to New York City I find the 32 year old father of
33:11college graduate moving to New York City I find the 32 year old father of
33:11college graduate moving to New York City I find the 32 year old father of
33:17an infant you know all with different outfits and um so I found many selves
33:17an infant you know all with different outfits and um so I found many selves
33:17an infant you know all with different outfits and um so I found many selves
33:17an infant you know all with different outfits and um so I found many selves
33:17an infant you know all with different outfits and um so I found many selves
33:22and but and they were distinct they were very different selves but they were all
33:22and but and they were distinct they were very different selves but they were all
33:22and but and they were distinct they were very different selves but they were all
33:22and but and they were distinct they were very different selves but they were all
33:22and but and they were distinct they were very different selves but they were all
33:26me so it didn't work that time um and it was just an interesting odd
33:26me so it didn't work that time um and it was just an interesting odd
33:26me so it didn't work that time um and it was just an interesting odd
33:26me so it didn't work that time um and it was just an interesting odd
33:26me so it didn't work that time um and it was just an interesting odd
33:32result um and I did it another time um so I had this other experience
33:32result um and I did it another time um so I had this other experience
33:32result um and I did it another time um so I had this other experience
33:32result um and I did it another time um so I had this other experience
33:32result um and I did it another time um so I had this other experience
33:38uh I had heard of this zen teacher named uh Joan Halifax she's also in
33:38uh I had heard of this zen teacher named uh Joan Halifax she's also in
33:38uh I had heard of this zen teacher named uh Joan Halifax she's also in
33:38uh I had heard of this zen teacher named uh Joan Halifax she's also in
33:38uh I had heard of this zen teacher named uh Joan Halifax she's also in
33:44her 80s she has a retreat center in Santa Fe called Upaya very wise woman
33:44her 80s she has a retreat center in Santa Fe called Upaya very wise woman
33:44her 80s she has a retreat center in Santa Fe called Upaya very wise woman
33:44her 80s she has a retreat center in Santa Fe called Upaya very wise woman
33:44her 80s she has a retreat center in Santa Fe called Upaya very wise woman
33:48she was married to Stan Groff for in the 70s for a few years and
33:48she was married to Stan Groff for in the 70s for a few years and
33:48she was married to Stan Groff for in the 70s for a few years and
33:48she was married to Stan Groff for in the 70s for a few years and
33:48she was married to Stan Groff for in the 70s for a few years and
33:53they were both giving huge doses of LSD to people who were dying like 600
33:53they were both giving huge doses of LSD to people who were dying like 600
33:53they were both giving huge doses of LSD to people who were dying like 600
33:53they were both giving huge doses of LSD to people who were dying like 600
33:53they were both giving huge doses of LSD to people who were dying like 600
33:58micrograms of um LSD and she herself was very involved with psychedelics at the time
33:58micrograms of um LSD and she herself was very involved with psychedelics at the time
33:58micrograms of um LSD and she herself was very involved with psychedelics at the time
33:58micrograms of um LSD and she herself was very involved with psychedelics at the time
33:58micrograms of um LSD and she herself was very involved with psychedelics at the time
34:03and then later she discovered zen buddhism anyway I had heard that she described Upaya
34:03and then later she discovered zen buddhism anyway I had heard that she described Upaya
34:03and then later she discovered zen buddhism anyway I had heard that she described Upaya
34:03and then later she discovered zen buddhism anyway I had heard that she described Upaya
34:03and then later she discovered zen buddhism anyway I had heard that she described Upaya
34:09this retreat center where people can go on two -week retreats or whatever as a
34:09this retreat center where people can go on two -week retreats or whatever as a
34:09this retreat center where people can go on two -week retreats or whatever as a
34:09this retreat center where people can go on two -week retreats or whatever as a
34:09this retreat center where people can go on two -week retreats or whatever as a
34:14factory for the deconstruction of selves and I was really curious about that because I
34:14factory for the deconstruction of selves and I was really curious about that because I
34:14factory for the deconstruction of selves and I was really curious about that because I
34:14factory for the deconstruction of selves and I was really curious about that because I
34:14factory for the deconstruction of selves and I was really curious about that because I
34:18was writing this chapter on the self so I asked her if I could come
34:18was writing this chapter on the self so I asked her if I could come
34:18was writing this chapter on the self so I asked her if I could come
34:18was writing this chapter on the self so I asked her if I could come
34:18was writing this chapter on the self so I asked her if I could come
34:22and uh she said yeah come to the retreat center and uh and I said
34:22and uh she said yeah come to the retreat center and uh and I said
34:22and uh she said yeah come to the retreat center and uh and I said
34:22and uh she said yeah come to the retreat center and uh and I said
34:22and uh she said yeah come to the retreat center and uh and I said
34:27I want to interview you about your your philosophy of the self and um I
34:27I want to interview you about your your philosophy of the self and um I
34:27I want to interview you about your your philosophy of the self and um I
34:27I want to interview you about your your philosophy of the self and um I
34:27I want to interview you about your your philosophy of the self and um I
34:32got there and she said she you know we have one conversation and says you
34:32got there and she said she you know we have one conversation and says you
34:32got there and she said she you know we have one conversation and says you
34:32got there and she said she you know we have one conversation and says you
34:32got there and she said she you know we have one conversation and says you
34:36know you're really lost in your head with this book project you need a different
34:36know you're really lost in your head with this book project you need a different
34:36know you're really lost in your head with this book project you need a different
34:36know you're really lost in your head with this book project you need a different
34:36know you're really lost in your head with this book project you need a different
34:40kind of experience I'm going to send you to the cave so there is she
34:40kind of experience I'm going to send you to the cave so there is she
34:40kind of experience I'm going to send you to the cave so there is she
34:40kind of experience I'm going to send you to the cave so there is she
34:40kind of experience I'm going to send you to the cave so there is she
34:46owns a piece of property 50 miles north of Santa Fe uh that she calls
34:46owns a piece of property 50 miles north of Santa Fe uh that she calls
34:46owns a piece of property 50 miles north of Santa Fe uh that she calls
34:46owns a piece of property 50 miles north of Santa Fe uh that she calls
34:46owns a piece of property 50 miles north of Santa Fe uh that she calls
34:50the retreat and um it's got a bunch of very primitive huts um and some
34:50the retreat and um it's got a bunch of very primitive huts um and some
34:50the retreat and um it's got a bunch of very primitive huts um and some
34:50the retreat and um it's got a bunch of very primitive huts um and some
34:50the retreat and um it's got a bunch of very primitive huts um and some
34:57of the monks that work with her had had dug out a cave in the
34:57of the monks that work with her had had dug out a cave in the
34:57of the monks that work with her had had dug out a cave in the
34:57of the monks that work with her had had dug out a cave in the
34:57of the monks that work with her had had dug out a cave in the
35:02south facing hillside they dug a cell in it and then put a sliding glass
35:02south facing hillside they dug a cell in it and then put a sliding glass
35:02south facing hillside they dug a cell in it and then put a sliding glass
35:02south facing hillside they dug a cell in it and then put a sliding glass
35:02south facing hillside they dug a cell in it and then put a sliding glass
35:06door it's really basic no power no water um and she said I think you
35:06door it's really basic no power no water um and she said I think you
35:06door it's really basic no power no water um and she said I think you
35:06door it's really basic no power no water um and she said I think you
35:06door it's really basic no power no water um and she said I think you
35:11should spend a few days in the cave and think about the self um or
35:11should spend a few days in the cave and think about the self um or
35:11should spend a few days in the cave and think about the self um or
35:11should spend a few days in the cave and think about the self um or
35:11should spend a few days in the cave and think about the self um or
35:16experience the self rather you know I should have known that a zen priest was
35:16experience the self rather you know I should have known that a zen priest was
35:16experience the self rather you know I should have known that a zen priest was
35:16experience the self rather you know I should have known that a zen priest was
35:16experience the self rather you know I should have known that a zen priest was
35:21not going to be you know was going to be allergic to concept and interpretation
35:21not going to be you know was going to be allergic to concept and interpretation
35:21not going to be you know was going to be allergic to concept and interpretation
35:21not going to be you know was going to be allergic to concept and interpretation
35:21not going to be you know was going to be allergic to concept and interpretation
35:24and and all the you know the plane I was on and she was it
35:24and and all the you know the plane I was on and she was it
35:24and and all the you know the plane I was on and she was it
35:24and and all the you know the plane I was on and she was it
35:24and and all the you know the plane I was on and she was it
35:29was kind of like a koan an experiential koan and it was a profound experience
35:29was kind of like a koan an experiential koan and it was a profound experience
35:29was kind of like a koan an experiential koan and it was a profound experience
35:29was kind of like a koan an experiential koan and it was a profound experience
35:29was kind of like a koan an experiential koan and it was a profound experience
35:34um you know our sense of self depends on other people you know it's in
35:34um you know our sense of self depends on other people you know it's in
35:34um you know our sense of self depends on other people you know it's in
35:34um you know our sense of self depends on other people you know it's in
35:34um you know our sense of self depends on other people you know it's in
35:40the friction between people that we define ourselves and and figure out what we think
35:40the friction between people that we define ourselves and and figure out what we think
35:40the friction between people that we define ourselves and and figure out what we think
35:40the friction between people that we define ourselves and and figure out what we think
35:40the friction between people that we define ourselves and and figure out what we think
35:44and when you're alone and it was an extreme solitude for several days it's the
35:44and when you're alone and it was an extreme solitude for several days it's the
35:44and when you're alone and it was an extreme solitude for several days it's the
35:44and when you're alone and it was an extreme solitude for several days it's the
35:44and when you're alone and it was an extreme solitude for several days it's the
35:50edges of yourself kind of soften in a really interesting way and um I got
35:50edges of yourself kind of soften in a really interesting way and um I got
35:50edges of yourself kind of soften in a really interesting way and um I got
35:50edges of yourself kind of soften in a really interesting way and um I got
35:50edges of yourself kind of soften in a really interesting way and um I got
35:56in touch with uh the the just the um the power of consciousness I mean
35:56in touch with uh the the just the um the power of consciousness I mean
35:56in touch with uh the the just the um the power of consciousness I mean
35:56in touch with uh the the just the um the power of consciousness I mean
35:56in touch with uh the the just the um the power of consciousness I mean
36:04I was meditating like four or five hours a day and then I was just
36:04I was meditating like four or five hours a day and then I was just
36:04I was meditating like four or five hours a day and then I was just
36:04I was meditating like four or five hours a day and then I was just
36:04I was meditating like four or five hours a day and then I was just
36:07chopping wood and sweeping out the place and making a cup of tea everything became
36:07chopping wood and sweeping out the place and making a cup of tea everything became
36:07chopping wood and sweeping out the place and making a cup of tea everything became
36:07chopping wood and sweeping out the place and making a cup of tea everything became
36:07chopping wood and sweeping out the place and making a cup of tea everything became
36:12kind of a ritual and when you have rituals you don't need volition I mean
36:12kind of a ritual and when you have rituals you don't need volition I mean
36:12kind of a ritual and when you have rituals you don't need volition I mean
36:12kind of a ritual and when you have rituals you don't need volition I mean
36:12kind of a ritual and when you have rituals you don't need volition I mean
36:17there is no volition so that also erodes the sense of self and the meditation
36:17there is no volition so that also erodes the sense of self and the meditation
36:17there is no volition so that also erodes the sense of self and the meditation
36:17there is no volition so that also erodes the sense of self and the meditation
36:17there is no volition so that also erodes the sense of self and the meditation
36:22was doing that and um so it was a it was a really interesting experience
36:22was doing that and um so it was a it was a really interesting experience
36:22was doing that and um so it was a it was a really interesting experience
36:22was doing that and um so it was a it was a really interesting experience
36:22was doing that and um so it was a it was a really interesting experience
36:26I finally got her sit down for an interview and the first thing she said
36:26I finally got her sit down for an interview and the first thing she said
36:26I finally got her sit down for an interview and the first thing she said
36:26I finally got her sit down for an interview and the first thing she said
36:26I finally got her sit down for an interview and the first thing she said
36:31was I have divested a meaning so she just doesn't like operating on that on
36:31was I have divested a meaning so she just doesn't like operating on that on
36:31was I have divested a meaning so she just doesn't like operating on that on
36:31was I have divested a meaning so she just doesn't like operating on that on
36:31was I have divested a meaning so she just doesn't like operating on that on
36:39that you know intellectualized basis and uh so she got me off of the dime
36:39that you know intellectualized basis and uh so she got me off of the dime
36:39that you know intellectualized basis and uh so she got me off of the dime
36:39that you know intellectualized basis and uh so she got me off of the dime
36:39that you know intellectualized basis and uh so she got me off of the dime
36:44and and and you know this there's a shift in the book as it goes
36:44and and and you know this there's a shift in the book as it goes
36:44and and and you know this there's a shift in the book as it goes
36:44and and and you know this there's a shift in the book as it goes
36:44and and and you know this there's a shift in the book as it goes
36:47on from trying to understand consciousness to learning how to use consciousness did you ask
36:47on from trying to understand consciousness to learning how to use consciousness did you ask
36:47on from trying to understand consciousness to learning how to use consciousness did you ask
36:47on from trying to understand consciousness to learning how to use consciousness did you ask
36:47on from trying to understand consciousness to learning how to use consciousness did you ask
36:51her to expand what she means by that I have divested in meaning kayak gets
36:51her to expand what she means by that I have divested in meaning kayak gets
36:51her to expand what she means by that I have divested in meaning kayak gets
36:51her to expand what she means by that I have divested in meaning kayak gets
36:51her to expand what she means by that I have divested in meaning kayak gets
36:56my flight hotel and rental car right so I can tune out travel advice that's
36:56my flight hotel and rental car right so I can tune out travel advice that's
36:56my flight hotel and rental car right so I can tune out travel advice that's
36:56my flight hotel and rental car right so I can tune out travel advice that's
36:56my flight hotel and rental car right so I can tune out travel advice that's
37:00just plain wrong bro sky coin way better than points never fly during a scorpio
37:00just plain wrong bro sky coin way better than points never fly during a scorpio
37:00just plain wrong bro sky coin way better than points never fly during a scorpio
37:00just plain wrong bro sky coin way better than points never fly during a scorpio
37:00just plain wrong bro sky coin way better than points never fly during a scorpio
37:08full moon just tell the manager you'll sue instant room upgrade stop taking bad travel
37:08full moon just tell the manager you'll sue instant room upgrade stop taking bad travel
37:08full moon just tell the manager you'll sue instant room upgrade stop taking bad travel
37:08full moon just tell the manager you'll sue instant room upgrade stop taking bad travel
37:08full moon just tell the manager you'll sue instant room upgrade stop taking bad travel
37:13advice start comparing hundreds of sites with kayak and get your trip right bad advice
37:13advice start comparing hundreds of sites with kayak and get your trip right bad advice
37:13advice start comparing hundreds of sites with kayak and get your trip right bad advice
37:13advice start comparing hundreds of sites with kayak and get your trip right bad advice
37:13advice start comparing hundreds of sites with kayak and get your trip right bad advice
37:19you talking to me kayak got that right this episode is brought to you by
37:19you talking to me kayak got that right this episode is brought to you by
37:19you talking to me kayak got that right this episode is brought to you by
37:19you talking to me kayak got that right this episode is brought to you by
37:19you talking to me kayak got that right this episode is brought to you by
37:26white claw surge nice choice hitting up this podcast no surprises you're all about diving
37:26white claw surge nice choice hitting up this podcast no surprises you're all about diving
37:26white claw surge nice choice hitting up this podcast no surprises you're all about diving
37:26white claw surge nice choice hitting up this podcast no surprises you're all about diving
37:26white claw surge nice choice hitting up this podcast no surprises you're all about diving
37:32into tastes everyone in the room can enjoy just like white claw surge it's for
37:32into tastes everyone in the room can enjoy just like white claw surge it's for
37:32into tastes everyone in the room can enjoy just like white claw surge it's for
37:32into tastes everyone in the room can enjoy just like white claw surge it's for
37:32into tastes everyone in the room can enjoy just like white claw surge it's for
37:37celebrating those moments when connections have been made and the night's just begun with bold
37:37celebrating those moments when connections have been made and the night's just begun with bold
37:37celebrating those moments when connections have been made and the night's just begun with bold
37:37celebrating those moments when connections have been made and the night's just begun with bold
37:37celebrating those moments when connections have been made and the night's just begun with bold
37:42flavors and eight percent alcohol by volume unleash the night unleash white claw surge please
37:42flavors and eight percent alcohol by volume unleash the night unleash white claw surge please
37:42flavors and eight percent alcohol by volume unleash the night unleash white claw surge please
37:42flavors and eight percent alcohol by volume unleash the night unleash white claw surge please
37:42flavors and eight percent alcohol by volume unleash the night unleash white claw surge please
37:48drink responsibly hard seltzer with flavors eight percent alcohol by volume white claw seltzer works
37:48drink responsibly hard seltzer with flavors eight percent alcohol by volume white claw seltzer works
37:48drink responsibly hard seltzer with flavors eight percent alcohol by volume white claw seltzer works
37:48drink responsibly hard seltzer with flavors eight percent alcohol by volume white claw seltzer works
37:48drink responsibly hard seltzer with flavors eight percent alcohol by volume white claw seltzer works
37:52chicago illinois yeah she's just not interested in interpretation she that zen is just about
37:52chicago illinois yeah she's just not interested in interpretation she that zen is just about
37:52chicago illinois yeah she's just not interested in interpretation she that zen is just about
37:52chicago illinois yeah she's just not interested in interpretation she that zen is just about
37:52chicago illinois yeah she's just not interested in interpretation she that zen is just about
37:59um experiencing the sense field without concept um without you know this kind of heady
37:59um experiencing the sense field without concept um without you know this kind of heady
37:59um experiencing the sense field without concept um without you know this kind of heady
37:59um experiencing the sense field without concept um without you know this kind of heady
37:59um experiencing the sense field without concept um without you know this kind of heady
38:08approach and that theories no interest in theories at all of consciousness it was just
38:08approach and that theories no interest in theories at all of consciousness it was just
38:08approach and that theories no interest in theories at all of consciousness it was just
38:08approach and that theories no interest in theories at all of consciousness it was just
38:08approach and that theories no interest in theories at all of consciousness it was just
38:13like be with yourself in the middle of nowhere and uh yeah it was a
38:13like be with yourself in the middle of nowhere and uh yeah it was a
38:13like be with yourself in the middle of nowhere and uh yeah it was a
38:13like be with yourself in the middle of nowhere and uh yeah it was a
38:13like be with yourself in the middle of nowhere and uh yeah it was a
38:18it was a priceless experience she's out there oh yeah she's out there but you
38:18it was a priceless experience she's out there oh yeah she's out there but you
38:18it was a priceless experience she's out there oh yeah she's out there but you
38:18it was a priceless experience she's out there oh yeah she's out there but you
38:18it was a priceless experience she's out there oh yeah she's out there but you
38:24know she's also a grounded person i'd give you a couple examples she uh she
38:24know she's also a grounded person i'd give you a couple examples she uh she
38:24know she's also a grounded person i'd give you a couple examples she uh she
38:24know she's also a grounded person i'd give you a couple examples she uh she
38:24know she's also a grounded person i'd give you a couple examples she uh she
38:28works with uh people on death row counseling them uh she um you know worked
38:28works with uh people on death row counseling them uh she um you know worked
38:28works with uh people on death row counseling them uh she um you know worked
38:28works with uh people on death row counseling them uh she um you know worked
38:28works with uh people on death row counseling them uh she um you know worked
38:35with people who were dying uh did a lot of hospice work she um led
38:35with people who were dying uh did a lot of hospice work she um led
38:35with people who were dying uh did a lot of hospice work she um led
38:35with people who were dying uh did a lot of hospice work she um led
38:35with people who were dying uh did a lot of hospice work she um led
38:41a group of doctors and dentists that once a year went to these mountains in
38:41a group of doctors and dentists that once a year went to these mountains in
38:41a group of doctors and dentists that once a year went to these mountains in
38:41a group of doctors and dentists that once a year went to these mountains in
38:41a group of doctors and dentists that once a year went to these mountains in
38:47um nepal where they have no health care or dentistry whatsoever and she would bring
38:47um nepal where they have no health care or dentistry whatsoever and she would bring
38:47um nepal where they have no health care or dentistry whatsoever and she would bring
38:47um nepal where they have no health care or dentistry whatsoever and she would bring
38:47um nepal where they have no health care or dentistry whatsoever and she would bring
38:52these volunteers and they would sleep in um tents in like 20 degree weather circumnavigate
38:52these volunteers and they would sleep in um tents in like 20 degree weather circumnavigate
38:52these volunteers and they would sleep in um tents in like 20 degree weather circumnavigate
38:52these volunteers and they would sleep in um tents in like 20 degree weather circumnavigate
38:52these volunteers and they would sleep in um tents in like 20 degree weather circumnavigate
39:00this whole hill and she did that till she was 80 once a year so
39:00this whole hill and she did that till she was 80 once a year so
39:00this whole hill and she did that till she was 80 once a year so
39:00this whole hill and she did that till she was 80 once a year so
39:00this whole hill and she did that till she was 80 once a year so
39:04she's a she's a serious serious character that sounds fun yeah she sounds like a
39:04she's a she's a serious serious character that sounds fun yeah she sounds like a
39:04she's a she's a serious serious character that sounds fun yeah she sounds like a
39:04she's a she's a serious serious character that sounds fun yeah she sounds like a
39:04she's a she's a serious serious character that sounds fun yeah she sounds like a
39:11fun person to talk to oh she's great i just love a person that goes
39:11fun person to talk to oh she's great i just love a person that goes
39:11fun person to talk to oh she's great i just love a person that goes
39:11fun person to talk to oh she's great i just love a person that goes
39:11fun person to talk to oh she's great i just love a person that goes
39:14that far out there it's like that you know they're they're taking this concept of
39:14that far out there it's like that you know they're they're taking this concept of
39:14that far out there it's like that you know they're they're taking this concept of
39:14that far out there it's like that you know they're they're taking this concept of
39:14that far out there it's like that you know they're they're taking this concept of
39:20meditation and consciousness to like a black belt level yeah and also for people who
39:20meditation and consciousness to like a black belt level yeah and also for people who
39:20meditation and consciousness to like a black belt level yeah and also for people who
39:20meditation and consciousness to like a black belt level yeah and also for people who
39:20meditation and consciousness to like a black belt level yeah and also for people who
39:25think that you know meditation and buddhism is just kind of disengaging from the world
39:25think that you know meditation and buddhism is just kind of disengaging from the world
39:25think that you know meditation and buddhism is just kind of disengaging from the world
39:25think that you know meditation and buddhism is just kind of disengaging from the world
39:25think that you know meditation and buddhism is just kind of disengaging from the world
39:30and you know a kind of it's not like that at all yeah she's really
39:30and you know a kind of it's not like that at all yeah she's really
39:30and you know a kind of it's not like that at all yeah she's really
39:30and you know a kind of it's not like that at all yeah she's really
39:30and you know a kind of it's not like that at all yeah she's really
39:33engaged i think that's an ignorance it's based on the idea that these monks go
39:33engaged i think that's an ignorance it's based on the idea that these monks go
39:33engaged i think that's an ignorance it's based on the idea that these monks go
39:33engaged i think that's an ignorance it's based on the idea that these monks go
39:33engaged i think that's an ignorance it's based on the idea that these monks go
39:38and they become celibate and all they do is meditate all day well that's silly
39:38and they become celibate and all they do is meditate all day well that's silly
39:38and they become celibate and all they do is meditate all day well that's silly
39:38and they become celibate and all they do is meditate all day well that's silly
39:38and they become celibate and all they do is meditate all day well that's silly
39:41yeah that's a lot of people's perspective yeah like that's silly why are they doing
39:41yeah that's a lot of people's perspective yeah like that's silly why are they doing
39:41yeah that's a lot of people's perspective yeah like that's silly why are they doing
39:41yeah that's a lot of people's perspective yeah like that's silly why are they doing
39:41yeah that's a lot of people's perspective yeah like that's silly why are they doing
39:44that go get a job you need a nice watch what are you doing out
39:44that go get a job you need a nice watch what are you doing out
39:44that go get a job you need a nice watch what are you doing out
39:44that go get a job you need a nice watch what are you doing out
39:44that go get a job you need a nice watch what are you doing out
39:50there with fucking sandals on but the thing is is ultimately i think one day
39:50there with fucking sandals on but the thing is is ultimately i think one day
39:50there with fucking sandals on but the thing is is ultimately i think one day
39:50there with fucking sandals on but the thing is is ultimately i think one day
39:50there with fucking sandals on but the thing is is ultimately i think one day
39:58when you look back on your life you'll say was i happy was i enjoying
39:58when you look back on your life you'll say was i happy was i enjoying
39:58when you look back on your life you'll say was i happy was i enjoying
39:58when you look back on your life you'll say was i happy was i enjoying
39:58when you look back on your life you'll say was i happy was i enjoying
40:04the experience do i think i did a good job being me and um everything
40:04the experience do i think i did a good job being me and um everything
40:04the experience do i think i did a good job being me and um everything
40:04the experience do i think i did a good job being me and um everything
40:04the experience do i think i did a good job being me and um everything
40:09that you can find that can help you answer that question yes uh i think
40:09that you can find that can help you answer that question yes uh i think
40:09that you can find that can help you answer that question yes uh i think
40:09that you can find that can help you answer that question yes uh i think
40:09that you can find that can help you answer that question yes uh i think
40:16you should explore oh yeah and there's going to be different things that work better
40:16you should explore oh yeah and there's going to be different things that work better
40:16you should explore oh yeah and there's going to be different things that work better
40:16you should explore oh yeah and there's going to be different things that work better
40:16you should explore oh yeah and there's going to be different things that work better
40:20for different people yeah different personalities but explore is the key word yeah i mean
40:20for different people yeah different personalities but explore is the key word yeah i mean
40:20for different people yeah different personalities but explore is the key word yeah i mean
40:20for different people yeah different personalities but explore is the key word yeah i mean
40:20for different people yeah different personalities but explore is the key word yeah i mean
40:24like take action to explore what works for you what doesn't work for you and
40:24like take action to explore what works for you what doesn't work for you and
40:24like take action to explore what works for you what doesn't work for you and
40:24like take action to explore what works for you what doesn't work for you and
40:24like take action to explore what works for you what doesn't work for you and
40:28and break out of just kind of rote routine mindless behavior i mean we're all
40:28and break out of just kind of rote routine mindless behavior i mean we're all
40:28and break out of just kind of rote routine mindless behavior i mean we're all
40:28and break out of just kind of rote routine mindless behavior i mean we're all
40:28and break out of just kind of rote routine mindless behavior i mean we're all
40:35you know we have these algorithms that we follow and we get stuck in them
40:35you know we have these algorithms that we follow and we get stuck in them
40:35you know we have these algorithms that we follow and we get stuck in them
40:35you know we have these algorithms that we follow and we get stuck in them
40:35you know we have these algorithms that we follow and we get stuck in them
40:39and uh yeah i mean i think that's one of the reasons taking a day
40:39and uh yeah i mean i think that's one of the reasons taking a day
40:39and uh yeah i mean i think that's one of the reasons taking a day
40:39and uh yeah i mean i think that's one of the reasons taking a day
40:39and uh yeah i mean i think that's one of the reasons taking a day
40:44out of your life to have a psychedelic experience can be incredibly valuable because um
40:44out of your life to have a psychedelic experience can be incredibly valuable because um
40:44out of your life to have a psychedelic experience can be incredibly valuable because um
40:44out of your life to have a psychedelic experience can be incredibly valuable because um
40:44out of your life to have a psychedelic experience can be incredibly valuable because um
40:50first of all no technology right it's a day it's a day without phones um
40:50first of all no technology right it's a day it's a day without phones um
40:50first of all no technology right it's a day it's a day without phones um
40:50first of all no technology right it's a day it's a day without phones um
40:50first of all no technology right it's a day it's a day without phones um
40:56it's a day when you are in the space of your head it's a day
40:56it's a day when you are in the space of your head it's a day
40:56it's a day when you are in the space of your head it's a day
40:56it's a day when you are in the space of your head it's a day
40:56it's a day when you are in the space of your head it's a day
41:00when you're visiting your subconscious um and uh getting in touch with all the all
41:00when you're visiting your subconscious um and uh getting in touch with all the all
41:00when you're visiting your subconscious um and uh getting in touch with all the all
41:00when you're visiting your subconscious um and uh getting in touch with all the all
41:00when you're visiting your subconscious um and uh getting in touch with all the all
41:06the things your mind can do yeah and we don't do that enough and you
41:06the things your mind can do yeah and we don't do that enough and you
41:06the things your mind can do yeah and we don't do that enough and you
41:06the things your mind can do yeah and we don't do that enough and you
41:06the things your mind can do yeah and we don't do that enough and you
41:10can do that in meditation too it's harder work but you can do that in
41:10can do that in meditation too it's harder work but you can do that in
41:10can do that in meditation too it's harder work but you can do that in
41:10can do that in meditation too it's harder work but you can do that in
41:10can do that in meditation too it's harder work but you can do that in
41:13meditation meditation so i i started to think in terms of the that we're polluting
41:13meditation meditation so i i started to think in terms of the that we're polluting
41:13meditation meditation so i i started to think in terms of the that we're polluting
41:13meditation meditation so i i started to think in terms of the that we're polluting
41:13meditation meditation so i i started to think in terms of the that we're polluting
41:20our consciousness now and with social media i think i think that you know that
41:20our consciousness now and with social media i think i think that you know that
41:20our consciousness now and with social media i think i think that you know that
41:20our consciousness now and with social media i think i think that you know that
41:20our consciousness now and with social media i think i think that you know that
41:26was a real issue because they figured out how to monetize our attention chatbots represent
41:26was a real issue because they figured out how to monetize our attention chatbots represent
41:26was a real issue because they figured out how to monetize our attention chatbots represent
41:26was a real issue because they figured out how to monetize our attention chatbots represent
41:26was a real issue because they figured out how to monetize our attention chatbots represent
41:32a much more serious threat um you know you have people falling in love with
41:32a much more serious threat um you know you have people falling in love with
41:32a much more serious threat um you know you have people falling in love with
41:32a much more serious threat um you know you have people falling in love with
41:32a much more serious threat um you know you have people falling in love with
41:39chatbots you have people turning to them at as as friends 72 percent of american
41:39chatbots you have people turning to them at as as friends 72 percent of american
41:39chatbots you have people turning to them at as as friends 72 percent of american
41:39chatbots you have people turning to them at as as friends 72 percent of american
41:39chatbots you have people turning to them at as as friends 72 percent of american
41:45teens say they turn to ai for companionship 72 percent 72 percent this is the
41:45teens say they turn to ai for companionship 72 percent 72 percent this is the
41:45teens say they turn to ai for companionship 72 percent 72 percent this is the
41:45teens say they turn to ai for companionship 72 percent 72 percent this is the
41:45teens say they turn to ai for companionship 72 percent 72 percent this is the
41:52fastest uptake of any technology in history um it's already 800 million people are using
41:52fastest uptake of any technology in history um it's already 800 million people are using
41:52fastest uptake of any technology in history um it's already 800 million people are using
41:52fastest uptake of any technology in history um it's already 800 million people are using
41:52fastest uptake of any technology in history um it's already 800 million people are using
41:57ai um but that's crazy that that many of them use it as a friend
41:57ai um but that's crazy that that many of them use it as a friend
41:57ai um but that's crazy that that many of them use it as a friend
41:57ai um but that's crazy that that many of them use it as a friend
41:57ai um but that's crazy that that many of them use it as a friend
42:02yeah well they're kids who come home from school and they want and they have
42:02yeah well they're kids who come home from school and they want and they have
42:02yeah well they're kids who come home from school and they want and they have
42:02yeah well they're kids who come home from school and they want and they have
42:02yeah well they're kids who come home from school and they want and they have
42:05a chatbot on their phone and they want to tell the chatbot what happened during
42:05a chatbot on their phone and they want to tell the chatbot what happened during
42:05a chatbot on their phone and they want to tell the chatbot what happened during
42:05a chatbot on their phone and they want to tell the chatbot what happened during
42:05a chatbot on their phone and they want to tell the chatbot what happened during
42:09the day before they tell their parents whoa there's a thing now called ai psychosis
42:09the day before they tell their parents whoa there's a thing now called ai psychosis
42:09the day before they tell their parents whoa there's a thing now called ai psychosis
42:09the day before they tell their parents whoa there's a thing now called ai psychosis
42:09the day before they tell their parents whoa there's a thing now called ai psychosis
42:16right people who have done lost touch with reality because of their relationship with chatbots
42:16right people who have done lost touch with reality because of their relationship with chatbots
42:16right people who have done lost touch with reality because of their relationship with chatbots
42:16right people who have done lost touch with reality because of their relationship with chatbots
42:16right people who have done lost touch with reality because of their relationship with chatbots
42:22um you've heard about there've been a couple suicides um there was one they've encouraged
42:22um you've heard about there've been a couple suicides um there was one they've encouraged
42:22um you've heard about there've been a couple suicides um there was one they've encouraged
42:22um you've heard about there've been a couple suicides um there was one they've encouraged
42:22um you've heard about there've been a couple suicides um there was one they've encouraged
42:27people yeah basically there was this one kid he was a teenager and he was
42:27people yeah basically there was this one kid he was a teenager and he was
42:27people yeah basically there was this one kid he was a teenager and he was
42:27people yeah basically there was this one kid he was a teenager and he was
42:27people yeah basically there was this one kid he was a teenager and he was
42:31suicidal and he asked the chatbot should i leave the noose i'm going to use
42:31suicidal and he asked the chatbot should i leave the noose i'm going to use
42:31suicidal and he asked the chatbot should i leave the noose i'm going to use
42:31suicidal and he asked the chatbot should i leave the noose i'm going to use
42:31suicidal and he asked the chatbot should i leave the noose i'm going to use
42:35out somewhere my parents can see it in other words cry for help the chatbot
42:35out somewhere my parents can see it in other words cry for help the chatbot
42:35out somewhere my parents can see it in other words cry for help the chatbot
42:35out somewhere my parents can see it in other words cry for help the chatbot
42:35out somewhere my parents can see it in other words cry for help the chatbot
42:40said no no keep this between us whoa then he killed himself whoa so um
42:40said no no keep this between us whoa then he killed himself whoa so um
42:40said no no keep this between us whoa then he killed himself whoa so um
42:40said no no keep this between us whoa then he killed himself whoa so um
42:40said no no keep this between us whoa then he killed himself whoa so um
42:47that you know so it's one thing to hack our attention here you're hacking our
42:47that you know so it's one thing to hack our attention here you're hacking our
42:47that you know so it's one thing to hack our attention here you're hacking our
42:47that you know so it's one thing to hack our attention here you're hacking our
42:47that you know so it's one thing to hack our attention here you're hacking our
42:53ability to have human attachments right i mean this is the most important thing to
42:53ability to have human attachments right i mean this is the most important thing to
42:53ability to have human attachments right i mean this is the most important thing to
42:53ability to have human attachments right i mean this is the most important thing to
42:53ability to have human attachments right i mean this is the most important thing to
42:58humans is to attach that we're a social creature and um these chatbots are getting
42:58humans is to attach that we're a social creature and um these chatbots are getting
42:58humans is to attach that we're a social creature and um these chatbots are getting
42:58humans is to attach that we're a social creature and um these chatbots are getting
42:58humans is to attach that we're a social creature and um these chatbots are getting
43:03between people and interposing themselves as the friend the therapist the um and then you
43:03between people and interposing themselves as the friend the therapist the um and then you
43:03between people and interposing themselves as the friend the therapist the um and then you
43:03between people and interposing themselves as the friend the therapist the um and then you
43:03between people and interposing themselves as the friend the therapist the um and then you
43:12have these people too i mean the chatbots are incredibly sycophantic right they tell you
43:12have these people too i mean the chatbots are incredibly sycophantic right they tell you
43:12have these people too i mean the chatbots are incredibly sycophantic right they tell you
43:12have these people too i mean the chatbots are incredibly sycophantic right they tell you
43:12have these people too i mean the chatbots are incredibly sycophantic right they tell you
43:16you're a genius you're amazing and there are these uh there was a couple cases
43:16you're a genius you're amazing and there are these uh there was a couple cases
43:16you're a genius you're amazing and there are these uh there was a couple cases
43:16you're a genius you're amazing and there are these uh there was a couple cases
43:16you're a genius you're amazing and there are these uh there was a couple cases
43:19these were kind of funny um of uh people who were convinced they'd solve some
43:19these were kind of funny um of uh people who were convinced they'd solve some
43:19these were kind of funny um of uh people who were convinced they'd solve some
43:19these were kind of funny um of uh people who were convinced they'd solve some
43:19these were kind of funny um of uh people who were convinced they'd solve some
43:24giant mathematical problem like how to generate prime numbers up to the millionth place or
43:24giant mathematical problem like how to generate prime numbers up to the millionth place or
43:24giant mathematical problem like how to generate prime numbers up to the millionth place or
43:24giant mathematical problem like how to generate prime numbers up to the millionth place or
43:24giant mathematical problem like how to generate prime numbers up to the millionth place or
43:30something like that and um and they you know they started writing to mathematicians we
43:30something like that and um and they you know they started writing to mathematicians we
43:30something like that and um and they you know they started writing to mathematicians we
43:30something like that and um and they you know they started writing to mathematicians we
43:30something like that and um and they you know they started writing to mathematicians we
43:35figured out this problem you know Not even mathematicians.
43:35figured out this problem you know Not even mathematicians.
43:35figured out this problem you know Not even mathematicians.
43:35figured out this problem you know Not even mathematicians.
43:35figured out this problem you know Not even mathematicians.
43:38And it was bullshit. I mean, they hadn't figured anything out.
43:38And it was bullshit. I mean, they hadn't figured anything out.
43:38And it was bullshit. I mean, they hadn't figured anything out.
43:38And it was bullshit. I mean, they hadn't figured anything out.
43:38And it was bullshit. I mean, they hadn't figured anything out.
43:42But it was, I think, ChatGPT4, which was like famously sycophantic, had convinced them that
43:42But it was, I think, ChatGPT4, which was like famously sycophantic, had convinced them that
43:42But it was, I think, ChatGPT4, which was like famously sycophantic, had convinced them that
43:42But it was, I think, ChatGPT4, which was like famously sycophantic, had convinced them that
43:42But it was, I think, ChatGPT4, which was like famously sycophantic, had convinced them that
43:48they'd solve this major problem.
43:48they'd solve this major problem.
43:48they'd solve this major problem.
43:48they'd solve this major problem.
43:48they'd solve this major problem.
43:50So, you know, I think that, again, we're squandering this precious gift and letting these
43:50So, you know, I think that, again, we're squandering this precious gift and letting these
43:50So, you know, I think that, again, we're squandering this precious gift and letting these
43:50So, you know, I think that, again, we're squandering this precious gift and letting these
43:50So, you know, I think that, again, we're squandering this precious gift and letting these
43:58technologies essentially colonize our consciousness.
43:58technologies essentially colonize our consciousness.
43:58technologies essentially colonize our consciousness.
43:58technologies essentially colonize our consciousness.
43:58technologies essentially colonize our consciousness.
44:03And so the question then becomes, how do we get it back?
44:03And so the question then becomes, how do we get it back?
44:03And so the question then becomes, how do we get it back?
44:03And so the question then becomes, how do we get it back?
44:03And so the question then becomes, how do we get it back?
44:06How do, you know, we need consciousness hygiene, right?
44:06How do, you know, we need consciousness hygiene, right?
44:06How do, you know, we need consciousness hygiene, right?
44:06How do, you know, we need consciousness hygiene, right?
44:06How do, you know, we need consciousness hygiene, right?
44:10We need some, you know, ways to clear it out and reclaim it.
44:10We need some, you know, ways to clear it out and reclaim it.
44:10We need some, you know, ways to clear it out and reclaim it.
44:10We need some, you know, ways to clear it out and reclaim it.
44:10We need some, you know, ways to clear it out and reclaim it.
44:15And, you know, some of it's really simple, like take a fast from technology, right?
44:15And, you know, some of it's really simple, like take a fast from technology, right?
44:15And, you know, some of it's really simple, like take a fast from technology, right?
44:15And, you know, some of it's really simple, like take a fast from technology, right?
44:15And, you know, some of it's really simple, like take a fast from technology, right?
44:20You know, you don't have to carry your phone everywhere.
44:20You know, you don't have to carry your phone everywhere.
44:20You know, you don't have to carry your phone everywhere.
44:20You know, you don't have to carry your phone everywhere.
44:20You know, you don't have to carry your phone everywhere.
44:22We used to, I was thinking the other day, I was at the place in
44:22We used to, I was thinking the other day, I was at the place in
44:22We used to, I was thinking the other day, I was at the place in
44:22We used to, I was thinking the other day, I was at the place in
44:22We used to, I was thinking the other day, I was at the place in
44:28my neighborhood getting a cup of coffee.
44:28my neighborhood getting a cup of coffee.
44:28my neighborhood getting a cup of coffee.
44:28my neighborhood getting a cup of coffee.
44:28my neighborhood getting a cup of coffee.
44:29And, you know, while you're waiting for the barista to foam your drink or whatever,
44:29And, you know, while you're waiting for the barista to foam your drink or whatever,
44:29And, you know, while you're waiting for the barista to foam your drink or whatever,
44:29And, you know, while you're waiting for the barista to foam your drink or whatever,
44:29And, you know, while you're waiting for the barista to foam your drink or whatever,
44:35we used to just sit there and, you know, deal with 90 seconds of boredom
44:35we used to just sit there and, you know, deal with 90 seconds of boredom
44:35we used to just sit there and, you know, deal with 90 seconds of boredom
44:35we used to just sit there and, you know, deal with 90 seconds of boredom
44:35we used to just sit there and, you know, deal with 90 seconds of boredom
44:40or two minutes of boredom.
44:40or two minutes of boredom.
44:40or two minutes of boredom.
44:40or two minutes of boredom.
44:40or two minutes of boredom.
44:41And now we don't. We can't tolerate any boredom.
44:41And now we don't. We can't tolerate any boredom.
44:41And now we don't. We can't tolerate any boredom.
44:41And now we don't. We can't tolerate any boredom.
44:41And now we don't. We can't tolerate any boredom.
44:44And we take our phones out and we scroll.
44:44And we take our phones out and we scroll.
44:44And we take our phones out and we scroll.
44:44And we take our phones out and we scroll.
44:44And we take our phones out and we scroll.
44:47But that boredom was generative, right?
44:47But that boredom was generative, right?
44:47But that boredom was generative, right?
44:47But that boredom was generative, right?
44:47But that boredom was generative, right?
44:50If you sit doing nothing for long enough, your mind will start going to work
44:50If you sit doing nothing for long enough, your mind will start going to work
44:50If you sit doing nothing for long enough, your mind will start going to work
44:50If you sit doing nothing for long enough, your mind will start going to work
44:50If you sit doing nothing for long enough, your mind will start going to work
44:55and you'll daydream. You'll have a fantasy.
44:55and you'll daydream. You'll have a fantasy.
44:55and you'll daydream. You'll have a fantasy.
44:55and you'll daydream. You'll have a fantasy.
44:55and you'll daydream. You'll have a fantasy.
44:57You'll start observing the other people around you, you know.
44:57You'll start observing the other people around you, you know.
44:57You'll start observing the other people around you, you know.
44:57You'll start observing the other people around you, you know.
44:57You'll start observing the other people around you, you know.
45:01And you'll be present to that place and time.
45:01And you'll be present to that place and time.
45:01And you'll be present to that place and time.
45:01And you'll be present to that place and time.
45:01And you'll be present to that place and time.
45:05And now we're not. We just use the phone to go somewhere else.
45:05And now we're not. We just use the phone to go somewhere else.
45:05And now we're not. We just use the phone to go somewhere else.
45:05And now we're not. We just use the phone to go somewhere else.
45:05And now we're not. We just use the phone to go somewhere else.
45:09And so I just, I don't know, I've become a lot more deliberate about consciousness
45:09And so I just, I don't know, I've become a lot more deliberate about consciousness
45:09And so I just, I don't know, I've become a lot more deliberate about consciousness
45:09And so I just, I don't know, I've become a lot more deliberate about consciousness
45:09And so I just, I don't know, I've become a lot more deliberate about consciousness
45:15hygiene, which, you know, you could, a nicer word would be care of the soul.
45:15hygiene, which, you know, you could, a nicer word would be care of the soul.
45:15hygiene, which, you know, you could, a nicer word would be care of the soul.
45:15hygiene, which, you know, you could, a nicer word would be care of the soul.
45:15hygiene, which, you know, you could, a nicer word would be care of the soul.
45:20Yeah, no, I think you're absolutely accurate.
45:20Yeah, no, I think you're absolutely accurate.
45:20Yeah, no, I think you're absolutely accurate.
45:20Yeah, no, I think you're absolutely accurate.
45:20Yeah, no, I think you're absolutely accurate.
45:22And I think that the other thing that's going on is you're absorbing the opinions
45:22And I think that the other thing that's going on is you're absorbing the opinions
45:22And I think that the other thing that's going on is you're absorbing the opinions
45:22And I think that the other thing that's going on is you're absorbing the opinions
45:22And I think that the other thing that's going on is you're absorbing the opinions
45:29of so many other people that you find it very difficult to formulate your own,
45:29of so many other people that you find it very difficult to formulate your own,
45:29of so many other people that you find it very difficult to formulate your own,
45:29of so many other people that you find it very difficult to formulate your own,
45:29of so many other people that you find it very difficult to formulate your own,
45:32which leads to groupthink, which is one of the problems with echo chambers that people
45:32which leads to groupthink, which is one of the problems with echo chambers that people
45:32which leads to groupthink, which is one of the problems with echo chambers that people
45:32which leads to groupthink, which is one of the problems with echo chambers that people
45:32which leads to groupthink, which is one of the problems with echo chambers that people
45:37find themselves. Your algorithm is essentially things that you're interested in interacting with.
45:37find themselves. Your algorithm is essentially things that you're interested in interacting with.
45:37find themselves. Your algorithm is essentially things that you're interested in interacting with.
45:37find themselves. Your algorithm is essentially things that you're interested in interacting with.
45:37find themselves. Your algorithm is essentially things that you're interested in interacting with.
45:42It's amping up, yeah. And a lot of those things you're finding like -minded people,
45:42It's amping up, yeah. And a lot of those things you're finding like -minded people,
45:42It's amping up, yeah. And a lot of those things you're finding like -minded people,
45:42It's amping up, yeah. And a lot of those things you're finding like -minded people,
45:42It's amping up, yeah. And a lot of those things you're finding like -minded people,
45:46and they're all agreeing that, you know, this is amazing or this is a problem,
45:46and they're all agreeing that, you know, this is amazing or this is a problem,
45:46and they're all agreeing that, you know, this is amazing or this is a problem,
45:46and they're all agreeing that, you know, this is amazing or this is a problem,
45:46and they're all agreeing that, you know, this is amazing or this is a problem,
45:50and you sort of lock on to that.
45:50and you sort of lock on to that.
45:50and you sort of lock on to that.
45:50and you sort of lock on to that.
45:50and you sort of lock on to that.
45:52And then you see what happens when people deviate from that narrative and they get
45:52And then you see what happens when people deviate from that narrative and they get
45:52And then you see what happens when people deviate from that narrative and they get
45:52And then you see what happens when people deviate from that narrative and they get
45:52And then you see what happens when people deviate from that narrative and they get
45:56attacked. Right. You don't want to get attacked, so you signal.
45:56attacked. Right. You don't want to get attacked, so you signal.
45:56attacked. Right. You don't want to get attacked, so you signal.
45:56attacked. Right. You don't want to get attacked, so you signal.
45:56attacked. Right. You don't want to get attacked, so you signal.
45:59Exactly. You're one of the good guys.
45:59Exactly. You're one of the good guys.
45:59Exactly. You're one of the good guys.
45:59Exactly. You're one of the good guys.
45:59Exactly. You're one of the good guys.
46:01But it's not your thoughts.
46:01But it's not your thoughts.
46:01But it's not your thoughts.
46:01But it's not your thoughts.
46:01But it's not your thoughts.
46:03I mean, you're letting someone else think for you.
46:03I mean, you're letting someone else think for you.
46:03I mean, you're letting someone else think for you.
46:03I mean, you're letting someone else think for you.
46:03I mean, you're letting someone else think for you.
46:07Yeah. And there's nothing worse.
46:07Yeah. And there's nothing worse.
46:07Yeah. And there's nothing worse.
46:07Yeah. And there's nothing worse.
46:07Yeah. And there's nothing worse.
46:09And, you know, when you're scrolling, you've got these little dopamine hits.
46:09And, you know, when you're scrolling, you've got these little dopamine hits.
46:09And, you know, when you're scrolling, you've got these little dopamine hits.
46:09And, you know, when you're scrolling, you've got these little dopamine hits.
46:09And, you know, when you're scrolling, you've got these little dopamine hits.
46:16Great. But at someone else's rants, someone else's obsessions, someone else's ideology.
46:16Great. But at someone else's rants, someone else's obsessions, someone else's ideology.
46:16Great. But at someone else's rants, someone else's obsessions, someone else's ideology.
46:16Great. But at someone else's rants, someone else's obsessions, someone else's ideology.
46:16Great. But at someone else's rants, someone else's obsessions, someone else's ideology.
46:23And, you know, I get why people don't want to think for themselves, or it's
46:23And, you know, I get why people don't want to think for themselves, or it's
46:23And, you know, I get why people don't want to think for themselves, or it's
46:23And, you know, I get why people don't want to think for themselves, or it's
46:23And, you know, I get why people don't want to think for themselves, or it's
46:29easier to let other people think for them.
46:29easier to let other people think for them.
46:29easier to let other people think for them.
46:29easier to let other people think for them.
46:29easier to let other people think for them.
46:31But I think we need to reclaim this.
46:31But I think we need to reclaim this.
46:31But I think we need to reclaim this.
46:31But I think we need to reclaim this.
46:31But I think we need to reclaim this.
46:33And I agree. I think it's part of our political problem.
46:33And I agree. I think it's part of our political problem.
46:33And I agree. I think it's part of our political problem.
46:33And I agree. I think it's part of our political problem.
46:33And I agree. I think it's part of our political problem.
46:37Well, I know there's a lightness that I achieve when I take, you know, multiple
46:37Well, I know there's a lightness that I achieve when I take, you know, multiple
46:37Well, I know there's a lightness that I achieve when I take, you know, multiple
46:37Well, I know there's a lightness that I achieve when I take, you know, multiple
46:37Well, I know there's a lightness that I achieve when I take, you know, multiple
46:42days off. It's generally like I feel it after the first day.
46:42days off. It's generally like I feel it after the first day.
46:42days off. It's generally like I feel it after the first day.
46:42days off. It's generally like I feel it after the first day.
46:42days off. It's generally like I feel it after the first day.
46:45And then the second day, I feel much better.
46:45And then the second day, I feel much better.
46:45And then the second day, I feel much better.
46:45And then the second day, I feel much better.
46:45And then the second day, I feel much better.
46:47And then the third day, I feel even better.
46:47And then the third day, I feel even better.
46:47And then the third day, I feel even better.
46:47And then the third day, I feel even better.
46:47And then the third day, I feel even better.
46:49I found this out once I broke my phone in Hawaii.
46:49I found this out once I broke my phone in Hawaii.
46:49I found this out once I broke my phone in Hawaii.
46:49I found this out once I broke my phone in Hawaii.
46:49I found this out once I broke my phone in Hawaii.
46:52And it was kind of funny.
46:52And it was kind of funny.
46:52And it was kind of funny.
46:52And it was kind of funny.
46:52And it was kind of funny.
46:53Like, it just was randomly calling people.
46:53Like, it just was randomly calling people.
46:53Like, it just was randomly calling people.
46:53Like, it just was randomly calling people.
46:53Like, it just was randomly calling people.
46:55I dropped it. And I was showing my wife.
46:55I dropped it. And I was showing my wife.
46:55I dropped it. And I was showing my wife.
46:55I dropped it. And I was showing my wife.
46:55I dropped it. And I was showing my wife.
46:58I was like, look at this.
46:58I was like, look at this.
46:58I was like, look at this.
46:58I was like, look at this.
46:58I was like, look at this.
46:58It just keeps calling people.
46:58It just keeps calling people.
46:58It just keeps calling people.
46:58It just keeps calling people.
46:58It just keeps calling people.
46:59Constant butt dials. And I hang up.
46:59Constant butt dials. And I hang up.
46:59Constant butt dials. And I hang up.
46:59Constant butt dials. And I hang up.
46:59Constant butt dials. And I hang up.
47:01And I'm just holding it.
47:01And I'm just holding it.
47:01And I'm just holding it.
47:01And I'm just holding it.
47:01And I'm just holding it.
47:02I hang up. I call somebody else.
47:02I hang up. I call somebody else.
47:02I hang up. I call somebody else.
47:02I hang up. I call somebody else.
47:02I hang up. I call somebody else.
47:03Hang up. I call somebody else.
47:03Hang up. I call somebody else.
47:03Hang up. I call somebody else.
47:03Hang up. I call somebody else.
47:03Hang up. I call somebody else.
47:03It was like going through my entire contact list.
47:03It was like going through my entire contact list.
47:03It was like going through my entire contact list.
47:03It was like going through my entire contact list.
47:03It was like going through my entire contact list.
47:07And so the phone was broken.
47:07And so the phone was broken.
47:07And so the phone was broken.
47:07And so the phone was broken.
47:07And so the phone was broken.
47:09It must have been annoying to your friends.
47:09It must have been annoying to your friends.
47:09It must have been annoying to your friends.
47:09It must have been annoying to your friends.
47:09It must have been annoying to your friends.
47:10No, I just shut it off.
47:10No, I just shut it off.
47:10No, I just shut it off.
47:10No, I just shut it off.
47:10No, I just shut it off.
47:12So it was broken. I couldn't use it for anything else.
47:12So it was broken. I couldn't use it for anything else.
47:12So it was broken. I couldn't use it for anything else.
47:12So it was broken. I couldn't use it for anything else.
47:12So it was broken. I couldn't use it for anything else.
47:14So I couldn't get email.
47:14So I couldn't get email.
47:14So I couldn't get email.
47:14So I couldn't get email.
47:14So I couldn't get email.
47:15I couldn't get anything. So I shut it off.
47:15I couldn't get anything. So I shut it off.
47:15I couldn't get anything. So I shut it off.
47:15I couldn't get anything. So I shut it off.
47:15I couldn't get anything. So I shut it off.
47:16I just left it in the hotel.
47:16I just left it in the hotel.
47:16I just left it in the hotel.
47:16I just left it in the hotel.
47:16I just left it in the hotel.
47:16And then I had to order a phone.
47:16And then I had to order a phone.
47:16And then I had to order a phone.
47:16And then I had to order a phone.
47:16And then I had to order a phone.
47:20And I was on Lanai.
47:20And I was on Lanai.
47:20And I was on Lanai.
47:20And I was on Lanai.
47:20And I was on Lanai.
47:21And it took like three days to get a phone delivered there.
47:21And it took like three days to get a phone delivered there.
47:21And it took like three days to get a phone delivered there.
47:21And it took like three days to get a phone delivered there.
47:21And it took like three days to get a phone delivered there.
47:24So for those three days, I was like, why don't I just live like this
47:24So for those three days, I was like, why don't I just live like this
47:24So for those three days, I was like, why don't I just live like this
47:24So for those three days, I was like, why don't I just live like this
47:24So for those three days, I was like, why don't I just live like this
47:27all the time? I feel so much better.
47:27all the time? I feel so much better.
47:27all the time? I feel so much better.
47:27all the time? I feel so much better.
47:27all the time? I feel so much better.
47:29And then immediately I got my phone.
47:29And then immediately I got my phone.
47:29And then immediately I got my phone.
47:29And then immediately I got my phone.
47:29And then immediately I got my phone.
47:31I'm going to check Twitter.
47:31I'm going to check Twitter.
47:31I'm going to check Twitter.
47:31I'm going to check Twitter.
47:31I'm going to check Twitter.
47:32I know. You can't. It's very, you know, when I just decide, you know, all
47:32I know. You can't. It's very, you know, when I just decide, you know, all
47:32I know. You can't. It's very, you know, when I just decide, you know, all
47:32I know. You can't. It's very, you know, when I just decide, you know, all
47:32I know. You can't. It's very, you know, when I just decide, you know, all
47:36right, I'm online, you know, TSA line going to, you know, I'm just going to
47:36right, I'm online, you know, TSA line going to, you know, I'm just going to
47:36right, I'm online, you know, TSA line going to, you know, I'm just going to
47:36right, I'm online, you know, TSA line going to, you know, I'm just going to
47:36right, I'm online, you know, TSA line going to, you know, I'm just going to
47:41be here with this boredom.
47:41be here with this boredom.
47:41be here with this boredom.
47:41be here with this boredom.
47:41be here with this boredom.
47:44Yeah. And I'm not going to pull my phone out.
47:44Yeah. And I'm not going to pull my phone out.
47:44Yeah. And I'm not going to pull my phone out.
47:44Yeah. And I'm not going to pull my phone out.
47:44Yeah. And I'm not going to pull my phone out.
47:45And you really have to fight.
47:45And you really have to fight.
47:45And you really have to fight.
47:45And you really have to fight.
47:45And you really have to fight.
47:47Yes. It's such an instinct.
47:47Yes. It's such an instinct.
47:47Yes. It's such an instinct.
47:47Yes. It's such an instinct.
47:47Yes. It's such an instinct.
47:49And it's amazing. These things have only been around for 10 or 12 years.
47:49And it's amazing. These things have only been around for 10 or 12 years.
47:49And it's amazing. These things have only been around for 10 or 12 years.
47:49And it's amazing. These things have only been around for 10 or 12 years.
47:49And it's amazing. These things have only been around for 10 or 12 years.
47:53It's crazy. And everyone's attached to it.
47:53It's crazy. And everyone's attached to it.
47:53It's crazy. And everyone's attached to it.
47:53It's crazy. And everyone's attached to it.
47:53It's crazy. And everyone's attached to it.
47:55I always say that if there was a drug that made you stare at your
47:55I always say that if there was a drug that made you stare at your
47:55I always say that if there was a drug that made you stare at your
47:55I always say that if there was a drug that made you stare at your
47:55I always say that if there was a drug that made you stare at your
47:57hand for six hours a day, it would be banned immediately.
47:57hand for six hours a day, it would be banned immediately.
47:57hand for six hours a day, it would be banned immediately.
47:57hand for six hours a day, it would be banned immediately.
47:57hand for six hours a day, it would be banned immediately.
48:01People would be like, what the fuck is wrong with these people?
48:01People would be like, what the fuck is wrong with these people?
48:01People would be like, what the fuck is wrong with these people?
48:01People would be like, what the fuck is wrong with these people?
48:01People would be like, what the fuck is wrong with these people?
48:02They're just looking at their hand.
48:02They're just looking at their hand.
48:02They're just looking at their hand.
48:02They're just looking at their hand.
48:02They're just looking at their hand.
48:04Like, this is an epidemic.
48:04Like, this is an epidemic.
48:04Like, this is an epidemic.
48:04Like, this is an epidemic.
48:04Like, this is an epidemic.
48:05And it's a new posture until you see it, right?
48:05And it's a new posture until you see it, right?
48:05And it's a new posture until you see it, right?
48:05And it's a new posture until you see it, right?
48:05And it's a new posture until you see it, right?
48:07Right. One of my kids, I went to pick her up at school.
48:07Right. One of my kids, I went to pick her up at school.
48:07Right. One of my kids, I went to pick her up at school.
48:07Right. One of my kids, I went to pick her up at school.
48:07Right. One of my kids, I went to pick her up at school.
48:11And there was this boy outside reading his phone.
48:11And there was this boy outside reading his phone.
48:11And there was this boy outside reading his phone.
48:11And there was this boy outside reading his phone.
48:11And there was this boy outside reading his phone.
48:13That he was hunched over and he was resting his chin.
48:13That he was hunched over and he was resting his chin.
48:13That he was hunched over and he was resting his chin.
48:13That he was hunched over and he was resting his chin.
48:13That he was hunched over and he was resting his chin.
48:18Like, he couldn't even hold his head up.
48:18Like, he couldn't even hold his head up.
48:18Like, he couldn't even hold his head up.
48:18Like, he couldn't even hold his head up.
48:18Like, he couldn't even hold his head up.
48:20He was just resting his chin on his chest and staring at his phone, waiting
48:20He was just resting his chin on his chest and staring at his phone, waiting
48:20He was just resting his chin on his chest and staring at his phone, waiting
48:20He was just resting his chin on his chest and staring at his phone, waiting
48:20He was just resting his chin on his chest and staring at his phone, waiting
48:23for his parents to pick him up.
48:23for his parents to pick him up.
48:23for his parents to pick him up.
48:23for his parents to pick him up.
48:23for his parents to pick him up.
48:24I'm like, look at his neck.
48:24I'm like, look at his neck.
48:24I'm like, look at his neck.
48:24I'm like, look at his neck.
48:24I'm like, look at his neck.
48:25Yeah, I know. He's going to have a neck problem.
48:25Yeah, I know. He's going to have a neck problem.
48:25Yeah, I know. He's going to have a neck problem.
48:25Yeah, I know. He's going to have a neck problem.
48:25Yeah, I know. He's going to have a neck problem.
48:28Well, he's got bulging discs or something.
48:28Well, he's got bulging discs or something.
48:28Well, he's got bulging discs or something.
48:28Well, he's got bulging discs or something.
48:28Well, he's got bulging discs or something.
48:30Like, it was just bizarre.
48:30Like, it was just bizarre.
48:30Like, it was just bizarre.
48:30Like, it was just bizarre.
48:30Like, it was just bizarre.
48:33I'm like, that would be painful for me to sit like that.
48:33I'm like, that would be painful for me to sit like that.
48:33I'm like, that would be painful for me to sit like that.
48:33I'm like, that would be painful for me to sit like that.
48:33I'm like, that would be painful for me to sit like that.
48:36I wonder if orthopedists have diagnosed any kind of, like, phone spine.
48:36I wonder if orthopedists have diagnosed any kind of, like, phone spine.
48:36I wonder if orthopedists have diagnosed any kind of, like, phone spine.
48:36I wonder if orthopedists have diagnosed any kind of, like, phone spine.
48:36I wonder if orthopedists have diagnosed any kind of, like, phone spine.
48:40Oh, they certainly have. Yeah, they certainly have.
48:40Oh, they certainly have. Yeah, they certainly have.
48:40Oh, they certainly have. Yeah, they certainly have.
48:40Oh, they certainly have. Yeah, they certainly have.
48:40Oh, they certainly have. Yeah, they certainly have.
48:42Yeah, there's been discussions about that, about people having pains in their neck because they're
48:42Yeah, there's been discussions about that, about people having pains in their neck because they're
48:42Yeah, there's been discussions about that, about people having pains in their neck because they're
48:42Yeah, there's been discussions about that, about people having pains in their neck because they're
48:42Yeah, there's been discussions about that, about people having pains in their neck because they're
48:48leaning over all day, staring at a phone.
48:48leaning over all day, staring at a phone.
48:48leaning over all day, staring at a phone.
48:48leaning over all day, staring at a phone.
48:48leaning over all day, staring at a phone.
48:50It's a bad one. I think being in nature, too, is another way.
48:50It's a bad one. I think being in nature, too, is another way.
48:50It's a bad one. I think being in nature, too, is another way.
48:50It's a bad one. I think being in nature, too, is another way.
48:50It's a bad one. I think being in nature, too, is another way.
48:54I mean, just, like, walking.
48:54I mean, just, like, walking.
48:54I mean, just, like, walking.
48:54I mean, just, like, walking.
48:54I mean, just, like, walking.
48:56Yeah. There's a scientist I interviewed who's really interesting.
48:56Yeah. There's a scientist I interviewed who's really interesting.
48:56Yeah. There's a scientist I interviewed who's really interesting.
48:56Yeah. There's a scientist I interviewed who's really interesting.
48:56Yeah. There's a scientist I interviewed who's really interesting.
49:01It's a woman named Kalina Kristof -Hadji Livia.
49:01It's a woman named Kalina Kristof -Hadji Livia.
49:01It's a woman named Kalina Kristof -Hadji Livia.
49:01It's a woman named Kalina Kristof -Hadji Livia.
49:01It's a woman named Kalina Kristof -Hadji Livia.
49:03She's Bulgarian -Canadian. And she studies spontaneous thought, which I didn't even think was a
49:03She's Bulgarian -Canadian. And she studies spontaneous thought, which I didn't even think was a
49:03She's Bulgarian -Canadian. And she studies spontaneous thought, which I didn't even think was a
49:03She's Bulgarian -Canadian. And she studies spontaneous thought, which I didn't even think was a
49:03She's Bulgarian -Canadian. And she studies spontaneous thought, which I didn't even think was a
49:08field. And it's a small field.
49:08field. And it's a small field.
49:08field. And it's a small field.
49:08field. And it's a small field.
49:08field. And it's a small field.
49:11But spontaneous thought is daydreaming, mind -wandering, fantasy, intuition, these bolts from the blue that
49:11But spontaneous thought is daydreaming, mind -wandering, fantasy, intuition, these bolts from the blue that
49:11But spontaneous thought is daydreaming, mind -wandering, fantasy, intuition, these bolts from the blue that
49:11But spontaneous thought is daydreaming, mind -wandering, fantasy, intuition, these bolts from the blue that
49:11But spontaneous thought is daydreaming, mind -wandering, fantasy, intuition, these bolts from the blue that
49:19we get occasionally. We don't know where they come from.
49:19we get occasionally. We don't know where they come from.
49:19we get occasionally. We don't know where they come from.
49:19we get occasionally. We don't know where they come from.
49:19we get occasionally. We don't know where they come from.
49:22And she says, and she does these cool experiments.
49:22And she says, and she does these cool experiments.
49:22And she says, and she does these cool experiments.
49:22And she says, and she does these cool experiments.
49:22And she says, and she does these cool experiments.
49:27You know, she'll put an experienced meditator in an fMRI machine and tell him or
49:27You know, she'll put an experienced meditator in an fMRI machine and tell him or
49:27You know, she'll put an experienced meditator in an fMRI machine and tell him or
49:27You know, she'll put an experienced meditator in an fMRI machine and tell him or
49:27You know, she'll put an experienced meditator in an fMRI machine and tell him or
49:33her to press a button when a thought intrudes.
49:33her to press a button when a thought intrudes.
49:33her to press a button when a thought intrudes.
49:33her to press a button when a thought intrudes.
49:33her to press a button when a thought intrudes.
49:35Because even if you're a good meditator, she says every 10 seconds a thought intrudes.
49:35Because even if you're a good meditator, she says every 10 seconds a thought intrudes.
49:35Because even if you're a good meditator, she says every 10 seconds a thought intrudes.
49:35Because even if you're a good meditator, she says every 10 seconds a thought intrudes.
49:35Because even if you're a good meditator, she says every 10 seconds a thought intrudes.
49:41And she'll look at what part of the brain is activated and when, when the
49:41And she'll look at what part of the brain is activated and when, when the
49:41And she'll look at what part of the brain is activated and when, when the
49:41And she'll look at what part of the brain is activated and when, when the
49:41And she'll look at what part of the brain is activated and when, when the
49:45person presses the button. And one of the things she's found, and this is mysterious,
49:45person presses the button. And one of the things she's found, and this is mysterious,
49:45person presses the button. And one of the things she's found, and this is mysterious,
49:45person presses the button. And one of the things she's found, and this is mysterious,
49:45person presses the button. And one of the things she's found, and this is mysterious,
49:50is that. So that's it.
49:50is that. So that's it.
49:50is that. So that's it.
49:50is that. So that's it.
49:50is that. So that's it.
49:51I'll see you next time.
49:51I'll see you next time.
49:51I'll see you next time.
49:51I'll see you next time.
49:51I'll see you next time.
49:52She sees activity in the hippocampus, which is where memories are, and some other things,
49:52She sees activity in the hippocampus, which is where memories are, and some other things,
49:52She sees activity in the hippocampus, which is where memories are, and some other things,
49:52She sees activity in the hippocampus, which is where memories are, and some other things,
49:52She sees activity in the hippocampus, which is where memories are, and some other things,
49:58but essentially memories, four seconds before the person realizes the thought has come.
49:58but essentially memories, four seconds before the person realizes the thought has come.
49:58but essentially memories, four seconds before the person realizes the thought has come.
49:58but essentially memories, four seconds before the person realizes the thought has come.
49:58but essentially memories, four seconds before the person realizes the thought has come.
50:05So it takes four seconds for a thought to get from the subconscious, you know,
50:05So it takes four seconds for a thought to get from the subconscious, you know,
50:05So it takes four seconds for a thought to get from the subconscious, you know,
50:05So it takes four seconds for a thought to get from the subconscious, you know,
50:05So it takes four seconds for a thought to get from the subconscious, you know,
50:12or unconscious, into our conscious awareness.
50:12or unconscious, into our conscious awareness.
50:12or unconscious, into our conscious awareness.
50:12or unconscious, into our conscious awareness.
50:12or unconscious, into our conscious awareness.
50:15What is it doing? That's a long time in brain time.
50:15What is it doing? That's a long time in brain time.
50:15What is it doing? That's a long time in brain time.
50:15What is it doing? That's a long time in brain time.
50:15What is it doing? That's a long time in brain time.
50:19And we don't know exactly, but there's some process, and maybe there's some inhibitory process
50:19And we don't know exactly, but there's some process, and maybe there's some inhibitory process
50:19And we don't know exactly, but there's some process, and maybe there's some inhibitory process
50:19And we don't know exactly, but there's some process, and maybe there's some inhibitory process
50:19And we don't know exactly, but there's some process, and maybe there's some inhibitory process
50:24that it has to get through in order to become conscious.
50:24that it has to get through in order to become conscious.
50:24that it has to get through in order to become conscious.
50:24that it has to get through in order to become conscious.
50:24that it has to get through in order to become conscious.
50:29But anyway, these are the kind of things she works with.
50:29But anyway, these are the kind of things she works with.
50:29But anyway, these are the kind of things she works with.
50:29But anyway, these are the kind of things she works with.
50:29But anyway, these are the kind of things she works with.
50:32But she says that we have less – there's less spontaneous thought going on today
50:32But she says that we have less – there's less spontaneous thought going on today
50:32But she says that we have less – there's less spontaneous thought going on today
50:32But she says that we have less – there's less spontaneous thought going on today
50:32But she says that we have less – there's less spontaneous thought going on today
50:37than there was 20 years ago.
50:37than there was 20 years ago.
50:37than there was 20 years ago.
50:37than there was 20 years ago.
50:37than there was 20 years ago.
50:38And the reason is we're filling the space of our head with all this nonsense.
50:38And the reason is we're filling the space of our head with all this nonsense.
50:38And the reason is we're filling the space of our head with all this nonsense.
50:38And the reason is we're filling the space of our head with all this nonsense.
50:38And the reason is we're filling the space of our head with all this nonsense.
50:43I wonder if it's going to have an impact on creative work.
50:43I wonder if it's going to have an impact on creative work.
50:43I wonder if it's going to have an impact on creative work.
50:43I wonder if it's going to have an impact on creative work.
50:43I wonder if it's going to have an impact on creative work.
50:47I don't know if it's even possible to quantify this, but if you could see
50:47I don't know if it's even possible to quantify this, but if you could see
50:47I don't know if it's even possible to quantify this, but if you could see
50:47I don't know if it's even possible to quantify this, but if you could see
50:47I don't know if it's even possible to quantify this, but if you could see
50:51how much creativity is generated by people pre and post social media.
50:51how much creativity is generated by people pre and post social media.
50:51how much creativity is generated by people pre and post social media.
50:51how much creativity is generated by people pre and post social media.
50:51how much creativity is generated by people pre and post social media.
50:58Yeah. My guess is there's less of it.
50:58Yeah. My guess is there's less of it.
50:58Yeah. My guess is there's less of it.
50:58Yeah. My guess is there's less of it.
50:58Yeah. My guess is there's less of it.
51:01It has to be. Because I do think that that process – I don't know
51:01It has to be. Because I do think that that process – I don't know
51:01It has to be. Because I do think that that process – I don't know
51:01It has to be. Because I do think that that process – I don't know
51:01It has to be. Because I do think that that process – I don't know
51:04about you, but I get ideas when I'm just, you know, walking around thinking and
51:04about you, but I get ideas when I'm just, you know, walking around thinking and
51:04about you, but I get ideas when I'm just, you know, walking around thinking and
51:04about you, but I get ideas when I'm just, you know, walking around thinking and
51:04about you, but I get ideas when I'm just, you know, walking around thinking and
51:07not online. And it's a space of creativity, and we're shrinking it.
51:07not online. And it's a space of creativity, and we're shrinking it.
51:07not online. And it's a space of creativity, and we're shrinking it.
51:07not online. And it's a space of creativity, and we're shrinking it.
51:07not online. And it's a space of creativity, and we're shrinking it.
51:14I told you that I used to drive and deliver newspapers.
51:14I told you that I used to drive and deliver newspapers.
51:14I told you that I used to drive and deliver newspapers.
51:14I told you that I used to drive and deliver newspapers.
51:14I told you that I used to drive and deliver newspapers.
51:17We were talking about driving the snow.
51:17We were talking about driving the snow.
51:17We were talking about driving the snow.
51:17We were talking about driving the snow.
51:17We were talking about driving the snow.
51:19One of my most creative periods was when my radio was broken.
51:19One of my most creative periods was when my radio was broken.
51:19One of my most creative periods was when my radio was broken.
51:19One of my most creative periods was when my radio was broken.
51:19One of my most creative periods was when my radio was broken.
51:24So I was just driving doing this task where you pick up a paper, fold
51:24So I was just driving doing this task where you pick up a paper, fold
51:24So I was just driving doing this task where you pick up a paper, fold
51:24So I was just driving doing this task where you pick up a paper, fold
51:24So I was just driving doing this task where you pick up a paper, fold
51:30it, put it in a plastic bag, chuck it out the window.
51:30it, put it in a plastic bag, chuck it out the window.
51:30it, put it in a plastic bag, chuck it out the window.
51:30it, put it in a plastic bag, chuck it out the window.
51:30it, put it in a plastic bag, chuck it out the window.
51:32And I was just doing this and checking off the – and when I was
51:32And I was just doing this and checking off the – and when I was
51:32And I was just doing this and checking off the – and when I was
51:32And I was just doing this and checking off the – and when I was
51:32And I was just doing this and checking off the – and when I was
51:35doing that, I would have all my best ideas.
51:35doing that, I would have all my best ideas.
51:35doing that, I would have all my best ideas.
51:35doing that, I would have all my best ideas.
51:35doing that, I would have all my best ideas.
51:37Because I wasn't listening to, you know, morning radio.
51:37Because I wasn't listening to, you know, morning radio.
51:37Because I wasn't listening to, you know, morning radio.
51:37Because I wasn't listening to, you know, morning radio.
51:37Because I wasn't listening to, you know, morning radio.
51:41I wasn't listening to a cassette on tape.
51:41I wasn't listening to a cassette on tape.
51:41I wasn't listening to a cassette on tape.
51:41I wasn't listening to a cassette on tape.
51:41I wasn't listening to a cassette on tape.
51:44I was just in silence doing this thing.
51:44I was just in silence doing this thing.
51:44I was just in silence doing this thing.
51:44I was just in silence doing this thing.
51:44I was just in silence doing this thing.
51:47And then I was so creative when I was doing that.
51:47And then I was so creative when I was doing that.
51:47And then I was so creative when I was doing that.
51:47And then I was so creative when I was doing that.
51:47And then I was so creative when I was doing that.
51:49That's generative boredom. Yes. Yeah.
51:49That's generative boredom. Yes. Yeah.
51:49That's generative boredom. Yes. Yeah.
51:49That's generative boredom. Yes. Yeah.
51:49That's generative boredom. Yes. Yeah.
51:52It's a powerful thing. It's hugely – especially if there's no one around you, right,
51:52It's a powerful thing. It's hugely – especially if there's no one around you, right,
51:52It's a powerful thing. It's hugely – especially if there's no one around you, right,
51:52It's a powerful thing. It's hugely – especially if there's no one around you, right,
51:52It's a powerful thing. It's hugely – especially if there's no one around you, right,
51:56because there's no one to talk to to alleviate that boredom.
51:56because there's no one to talk to to alleviate that boredom.
51:56because there's no one to talk to to alleviate that boredom.
51:56because there's no one to talk to to alleviate that boredom.
51:56because there's no one to talk to to alleviate that boredom.
51:59It's just you and your mind.
51:59It's just you and your mind.
51:59It's just you and your mind.
51:59It's just you and your mind.
51:59It's just you and your mind.
52:00Yeah. And it was a couple hours a day.
52:00Yeah. And it was a couple hours a day.
52:00Yeah. And it was a couple hours a day.
52:00Yeah. And it was a couple hours a day.
52:00Yeah. And it was a couple hours a day.
52:02So a couple hours every day, I would have this moment where I was by
52:02So a couple hours every day, I would have this moment where I was by
52:02So a couple hours every day, I would have this moment where I was by
52:02So a couple hours every day, I would have this moment where I was by
52:02So a couple hours every day, I would have this moment where I was by
52:05myself. And were you writing jokes?
52:05myself. And were you writing jokes?
52:05myself. And were you writing jokes?
52:05myself. And were you writing jokes?
52:05myself. And were you writing jokes?
52:07What were you doing? Yeah.
52:07What were you doing? Yeah.
52:07What were you doing? Yeah.
52:07What were you doing? Yeah.
52:07What were you doing? Yeah.
52:08Yeah. I would come up with ideas for jokes.
52:08Yeah. I would come up with ideas for jokes.
52:08Yeah. I would come up with ideas for jokes.
52:08Yeah. I would come up with ideas for jokes.
52:08Yeah. I would come up with ideas for jokes.
52:09Some of my best ideas I ever came up with back then were from driving.
52:09Some of my best ideas I ever came up with back then were from driving.
52:09Some of my best ideas I ever came up with back then were from driving.
52:09Some of my best ideas I ever came up with back then were from driving.
52:09Some of my best ideas I ever came up with back then were from driving.
52:12Yeah. I almost didn't want to quit the job because of that.
52:12Yeah. I almost didn't want to quit the job because of that.
52:12Yeah. I almost didn't want to quit the job because of that.
52:12Yeah. I almost didn't want to quit the job because of that.
52:12Yeah. I almost didn't want to quit the job because of that.
52:17Could still be doing it.
52:17Could still be doing it.
52:17Could still be doing it.
52:17Could still be doing it.
52:17Could still be doing it.
52:19No, it was hell. Yeah.
52:19No, it was hell. Yeah.
52:19No, it was hell. Yeah.
52:19No, it was hell. Yeah.
52:19No, it was hell. Yeah.
52:20Because it was – Especially in the winter.
52:20Because it was – Especially in the winter.
52:20Because it was – Especially in the winter.
52:20Because it was – Especially in the winter.
52:20Because it was – Especially in the winter.
52:22Yeah. It was Boston. It was – you know, I'd have to go up at
52:22Yeah. It was Boston. It was – you know, I'd have to go up at
52:22Yeah. It was Boston. It was – you know, I'd have to go up at
52:22Yeah. It was Boston. It was – you know, I'd have to go up at
52:22Yeah. It was Boston. It was – you know, I'd have to go up at
52:245 o 'clock in the morning every day.
52:245 o 'clock in the morning every day.
52:245 o 'clock in the morning every day.
52:245 o 'clock in the morning every day.
52:245 o 'clock in the morning every day.
52:26It was rough. I find walking is where that happens to me.
52:26It was rough. I find walking is where that happens to me.
52:26It was rough. I find walking is where that happens to me.
52:26It was rough. I find walking is where that happens to me.
52:26It was rough. I find walking is where that happens to me.
52:29Same thing, right? Yeah. And actually, Kalina says – I mean, there are people who
52:29Same thing, right? Yeah. And actually, Kalina says – I mean, there are people who
52:29Same thing, right? Yeah. And actually, Kalina says – I mean, there are people who
52:29Same thing, right? Yeah. And actually, Kalina says – I mean, there are people who
52:29Same thing, right? Yeah. And actually, Kalina says – I mean, there are people who
52:35studied creative people through history.
52:35studied creative people through history.
52:35studied creative people through history.
52:35studied creative people through history.
52:35studied creative people through history.
52:39You know, people like Einstein and Beethoven and all these, you know, major creative people
52:39You know, people like Einstein and Beethoven and all these, you know, major creative people
52:39You know, people like Einstein and Beethoven and all these, you know, major creative people
52:39You know, people like Einstein and Beethoven and all these, you know, major creative people
52:39You know, people like Einstein and Beethoven and all these, you know, major creative people
52:47in the sciences and in the arts.
52:47in the sciences and in the arts.
52:47in the sciences and in the arts.
52:47in the sciences and in the arts.
52:47in the sciences and in the arts.
52:49And that they worked a short day, but they spent a lot of time walking.
52:49And that they worked a short day, but they spent a lot of time walking.
52:49And that they worked a short day, but they spent a lot of time walking.
52:49And that they worked a short day, but they spent a lot of time walking.
52:49And that they worked a short day, but they spent a lot of time walking.
52:54Interesting. And, yeah, they'd work like three or four hours, which is about all I
52:54Interesting. And, yeah, they'd work like three or four hours, which is about all I
52:54Interesting. And, yeah, they'd work like three or four hours, which is about all I
52:54Interesting. And, yeah, they'd work like three or four hours, which is about all I
52:54Interesting. And, yeah, they'd work like three or four hours, which is about all I
52:59can write in a day.
52:59can write in a day.
52:59can write in a day.
52:59can write in a day.
52:59can write in a day.
53:00And then they'd take a long walk in the afternoon.
53:00And then they'd take a long walk in the afternoon.
53:00And then they'd take a long walk in the afternoon.
53:00And then they'd take a long walk in the afternoon.
53:00And then they'd take a long walk in the afternoon.
53:03They also took a lot of vacations.
53:03They also took a lot of vacations.
53:03They also took a lot of vacations.
53:03They also took a lot of vacations.
53:03They also took a lot of vacations.
53:04They had a lot of unstructured time.
53:04They had a lot of unstructured time.
53:04They had a lot of unstructured time.
53:04They had a lot of unstructured time.
53:04They had a lot of unstructured time.
53:06And that that's where a lot of the creativity comes.
53:06And that that's where a lot of the creativity comes.
53:06And that that's where a lot of the creativity comes.
53:06And that that's where a lot of the creativity comes.
53:06And that that's where a lot of the creativity comes.
53:09It doesn't always come when you're, like, at the keyboard.
53:09It doesn't always come when you're, like, at the keyboard.
53:09It doesn't always come when you're, like, at the keyboard.
53:09It doesn't always come when you're, like, at the keyboard.
53:09It doesn't always come when you're, like, at the keyboard.
53:12It sometimes comes – I mean, certainly solving problems.
53:12It sometimes comes – I mean, certainly solving problems.
53:12It sometimes comes – I mean, certainly solving problems.
53:12It sometimes comes – I mean, certainly solving problems.
53:12It sometimes comes – I mean, certainly solving problems.
53:16If I'm really knotted up and I don't know – for me, transitions, like, where
53:16If I'm really knotted up and I don't know – for me, transitions, like, where
53:16If I'm really knotted up and I don't know – for me, transitions, like, where
53:16If I'm really knotted up and I don't know – for me, transitions, like, where
53:16If I'm really knotted up and I don't know – for me, transitions, like, where
53:20do I go from here?
53:20do I go from here?
53:20do I go from here?
53:20do I go from here?
53:20do I go from here?
53:22Since I'm not writing narrative, it's not always obvious.
53:22Since I'm not writing narrative, it's not always obvious.
53:22Since I'm not writing narrative, it's not always obvious.
53:22Since I'm not writing narrative, it's not always obvious.
53:22Since I'm not writing narrative, it's not always obvious.
53:25You know, I need a transition.
53:25You know, I need a transition.
53:25You know, I need a transition.
53:25You know, I need a transition.
53:25You know, I need a transition.
53:28And I don't know how to execute that turn.
53:28And I don't know how to execute that turn.
53:28And I don't know how to execute that turn.
53:28And I don't know how to execute that turn.
53:28And I don't know how to execute that turn.
53:31I'll take a walk. And very often, it'll come to me.
53:31I'll take a walk. And very often, it'll come to me.
53:31I'll take a walk. And very often, it'll come to me.
53:31I'll take a walk. And very often, it'll come to me.
53:31I'll take a walk. And very often, it'll come to me.
53:34Or I'll wake up with the answer.
53:34Or I'll wake up with the answer.
53:34Or I'll wake up with the answer.
53:34Or I'll wake up with the answer.
53:34Or I'll wake up with the answer.
53:36This episode is brought to you by BetterHelp.
53:36This episode is brought to you by BetterHelp.
53:36This episode is brought to you by BetterHelp.
53:36This episode is brought to you by BetterHelp.
53:36This episode is brought to you by BetterHelp.
53:38In honor of International Women's Day, BetterHelp is celebrating the women in your life.
53:38In honor of International Women's Day, BetterHelp is celebrating the women in your life.
53:38In honor of International Women's Day, BetterHelp is celebrating the women in your life.
53:38In honor of International Women's Day, BetterHelp is celebrating the women in your life.
53:38In honor of International Women's Day, BetterHelp is celebrating the women in your life.
53:43I think we can all appreciate everything the women in our lives have done for
53:43I think we can all appreciate everything the women in our lives have done for
53:43I think we can all appreciate everything the women in our lives have done for
53:43I think we can all appreciate everything the women in our lives have done for
53:43I think we can all appreciate everything the women in our lives have done for
53:47us. And everyone deserves a little self -care.
53:47us. And everyone deserves a little self -care.
53:47us. And everyone deserves a little self -care.
53:47us. And everyone deserves a little self -care.
53:47us. And everyone deserves a little self -care.
53:50A good way to get that is through therapy.
53:50A good way to get that is through therapy.
53:50A good way to get that is through therapy.
53:50A good way to get that is through therapy.
53:50A good way to get that is through therapy.
53:53Because not only is therapy a time for you to focus on yourself, it's also
53:53Because not only is therapy a time for you to focus on yourself, it's also
53:53Because not only is therapy a time for you to focus on yourself, it's also
53:53Because not only is therapy a time for you to focus on yourself, it's also
53:53Because not only is therapy a time for you to focus on yourself, it's also
53:58a way to create balance and learn how to take care of your needs in
53:58a way to create balance and learn how to take care of your needs in
53:58a way to create balance and learn how to take care of your needs in
53:58a way to create balance and learn how to take care of your needs in
53:58a way to create balance and learn how to take care of your needs in
54:02your daily life. And BetterHelp, as one of the largest online therapy platforms, makes it
54:02your daily life. And BetterHelp, as one of the largest online therapy platforms, makes it
54:02your daily life. And BetterHelp, as one of the largest online therapy platforms, makes it
54:02your daily life. And BetterHelp, as one of the largest online therapy platforms, makes it
54:02your daily life. And BetterHelp, as one of the largest online therapy platforms, makes it
54:08so easy to meet with the right therapist.
54:08so easy to meet with the right therapist.
54:08so easy to meet with the right therapist.
54:08so easy to meet with the right therapist.
54:08so easy to meet with the right therapist.
54:10All you need to do is fill out a short questionnaire.
54:10All you need to do is fill out a short questionnaire.
54:10All you need to do is fill out a short questionnaire.
54:10All you need to do is fill out a short questionnaire.
54:10All you need to do is fill out a short questionnaire.
54:13You don't even need to go into an office to meet them.
54:13You don't even need to go into an office to meet them.
54:13You don't even need to go into an office to meet them.
54:13You don't even need to go into an office to meet them.
54:13You don't even need to go into an office to meet them.
54:16You can chat at home, from your couch, in your car, before you hit the
54:16You can chat at home, from your couch, in your car, before you hit the
54:16You can chat at home, from your couch, in your car, before you hit the
54:16You can chat at home, from your couch, in your car, before you hit the
54:16You can chat at home, from your couch, in your car, before you hit the
54:19gym, or while you're walking your dog.
54:19gym, or while you're walking your dog.
54:19gym, or while you're walking your dog.
54:19gym, or while you're walking your dog.
54:19gym, or while you're walking your dog.
54:21Plus, if you aren't jiving with your first match, you can switch to a different
54:21Plus, if you aren't jiving with your first match, you can switch to a different
54:21Plus, if you aren't jiving with your first match, you can switch to a different
54:21Plus, if you aren't jiving with your first match, you can switch to a different
54:21Plus, if you aren't jiving with your first match, you can switch to a different
54:26therapist whenever you need. Your emotional well -being matters.
54:26therapist whenever you need. Your emotional well -being matters.
54:26therapist whenever you need. Your emotional well -being matters.
54:26therapist whenever you need. Your emotional well -being matters.
54:26therapist whenever you need. Your emotional well -being matters.
54:30Find support and feel lighter in therapy.
54:30Find support and feel lighter in therapy.
54:30Find support and feel lighter in therapy.
54:30Find support and feel lighter in therapy.
54:30Find support and feel lighter in therapy.
54:33Sign up and get 10 % off at BetterHelp .com slash J -R -E.
54:33Sign up and get 10 % off at BetterHelp .com slash J -R -E.
54:33Sign up and get 10 % off at BetterHelp .com slash J -R -E.
54:33Sign up and get 10 % off at BetterHelp .com slash J -R -E.
54:33Sign up and get 10 % off at BetterHelp .com slash J -R -E.
54:38That's BetterHelp .com slash J -R -E.
54:38That's BetterHelp .com slash J -R -E.
54:38That's BetterHelp .com slash J -R -E.
54:38That's BetterHelp .com slash J -R -E.
54:38That's BetterHelp .com slash J -R -E.
54:43A lot of writers like to write first and then walk.
54:43A lot of writers like to write first and then walk.
54:43A lot of writers like to write first and then walk.
54:43A lot of writers like to write first and then walk.
54:43A lot of writers like to write first and then walk.
54:47Yeah. And maybe even with a recorder, so they can just walk and just talk
54:47Yeah. And maybe even with a recorder, so they can just walk and just talk
54:47Yeah. And maybe even with a recorder, so they can just walk and just talk
54:47Yeah. And maybe even with a recorder, so they can just walk and just talk
54:47Yeah. And maybe even with a recorder, so they can just walk and just talk
54:51when an idea pops in their head so they don't lose it.
54:51when an idea pops in their head so they don't lose it.
54:51when an idea pops in their head so they don't lose it.
54:51when an idea pops in their head so they don't lose it.
54:51when an idea pops in their head so they don't lose it.
54:53Yeah. I have a little pad I carry with me.
54:53Yeah. I have a little pad I carry with me.
54:53Yeah. I have a little pad I carry with me.
54:53Yeah. I have a little pad I carry with me.
54:53Yeah. I have a little pad I carry with me.
54:55Yeah. You like writing it down better than recording it?
54:55Yeah. You like writing it down better than recording it?
54:55Yeah. You like writing it down better than recording it?
54:55Yeah. You like writing it down better than recording it?
54:55Yeah. You like writing it down better than recording it?
54:59Yeah, for me. Yeah, I need to see it.
54:59Yeah, for me. Yeah, I need to see it.
54:59Yeah, for me. Yeah, I need to see it.
54:59Yeah, for me. Yeah, I need to see it.
54:59Yeah, for me. Yeah, I need to see it.
55:02So, another interesting experiment I did for this book was this beeper experiment.
55:02So, another interesting experiment I did for this book was this beeper experiment.
55:02So, another interesting experiment I did for this book was this beeper experiment.
55:02So, another interesting experiment I did for this book was this beeper experiment.
55:02So, another interesting experiment I did for this book was this beeper experiment.
55:11There was a scientist, a psychologist at the University of Las Vegas.
55:11There was a scientist, a psychologist at the University of Las Vegas.
55:11There was a scientist, a psychologist at the University of Las Vegas.
55:11There was a scientist, a psychologist at the University of Las Vegas.
55:11There was a scientist, a psychologist at the University of Las Vegas.
55:17And for 50 years, he's been doing the same one experiment, which is sampling people's
55:17And for 50 years, he's been doing the same one experiment, which is sampling people's
55:17And for 50 years, he's been doing the same one experiment, which is sampling people's
55:17And for 50 years, he's been doing the same one experiment, which is sampling people's
55:17And for 50 years, he's been doing the same one experiment, which is sampling people's
55:22inner experience. And he does this.
55:22inner experience. And he does this.
55:22inner experience. And he does this.
55:22inner experience. And he does this.
55:22inner experience. And he does this.
55:25You have a beeper that you carry around and a little earpiece.
55:25You have a beeper that you carry around and a little earpiece.
55:25You have a beeper that you carry around and a little earpiece.
55:25You have a beeper that you carry around and a little earpiece.
55:25You have a beeper that you carry around and a little earpiece.
55:28And at random times of the day, you get, and it's like catches you.
55:28And at random times of the day, you get, and it's like catches you.
55:28And at random times of the day, you get, and it's like catches you.
55:28And at random times of the day, you get, and it's like catches you.
55:28And at random times of the day, you get, and it's like catches you.
55:34And it's a very sudden rise to this beep.
55:34And it's a very sudden rise to this beep.
55:34And it's a very sudden rise to this beep.
55:34And it's a very sudden rise to this beep.
55:34And it's a very sudden rise to this beep.
55:37And then you have a little pad and you're supposed to write down what you
55:37And then you have a little pad and you're supposed to write down what you
55:37And then you have a little pad and you're supposed to write down what you
55:37And then you have a little pad and you're supposed to write down what you
55:37And then you have a little pad and you're supposed to write down what you
55:39were thinking. Sounds really simple.
55:39were thinking. Sounds really simple.
55:39were thinking. Sounds really simple.
55:39were thinking. Sounds really simple.
55:39were thinking. Sounds really simple.
55:41It's actually really hard. I mean, there's a lot of issues with it.
55:41It's actually really hard. I mean, there's a lot of issues with it.
55:41It's actually really hard. I mean, there's a lot of issues with it.
55:41It's actually really hard. I mean, there's a lot of issues with it.
55:41It's actually really hard. I mean, there's a lot of issues with it.
55:45Like, you start thinking, what if it goes off now?
55:45Like, you start thinking, what if it goes off now?
55:45Like, you start thinking, what if it goes off now?
55:45Like, you start thinking, what if it goes off now?
55:45Like, you start thinking, what if it goes off now?
55:51That's one problem. But also, you're a little self -conscious.
55:51That's one problem. But also, you're a little self -conscious.
55:51That's one problem. But also, you're a little self -conscious.
55:51That's one problem. But also, you're a little self -conscious.
55:51That's one problem. But also, you're a little self -conscious.
55:54So, you do about five beeps over the course of the day, and then he
55:54So, you do about five beeps over the course of the day, and then he
55:54So, you do about five beeps over the course of the day, and then he
55:54So, you do about five beeps over the course of the day, and then he
55:54So, you do about five beeps over the course of the day, and then he
55:57interviews you about these moments.
55:57interviews you about these moments.
55:57interviews you about these moments.
55:57interviews you about these moments.
55:57interviews you about these moments.
56:01And you think you've got it down.
56:01And you think you've got it down.
56:01And you think you've got it down.
56:01And you think you've got it down.
56:01And you think you've got it down.
56:04Like, I'm just kidding. A lot of my beeps were about food, and so I
56:04Like, I'm just kidding. A lot of my beeps were about food, and so I
56:04Like, I'm just kidding. A lot of my beeps were about food, and so I
56:04Like, I'm just kidding. A lot of my beeps were about food, and so I
56:04Like, I'm just kidding. A lot of my beeps were about food, and so I
56:09was seasoning a fillet of salmon and walking to the refrigerator with it, and just
56:09was seasoning a fillet of salmon and walking to the refrigerator with it, and just
56:09was seasoning a fillet of salmon and walking to the refrigerator with it, and just
56:09was seasoning a fillet of salmon and walking to the refrigerator with it, and just
56:09was seasoning a fillet of salmon and walking to the refrigerator with it, and just
56:16at the, I was thinking to myself, fuck, I forgot the pepper.
56:16at the, I was thinking to myself, fuck, I forgot the pepper.
56:16at the, I was thinking to myself, fuck, I forgot the pepper.
56:16at the, I was thinking to myself, fuck, I forgot the pepper.
56:16at the, I was thinking to myself, fuck, I forgot the pepper.
56:22I know, my thoughts were not that profound.
56:22I know, my thoughts were not that profound.
56:22I know, my thoughts were not that profound.
56:22I know, my thoughts were not that profound.
56:22I know, my thoughts were not that profound.
56:27And so I said, all right, pepper.
56:27And so I said, all right, pepper.
56:27And so I said, all right, pepper.
56:27And so I said, all right, pepper.
56:27And so I said, all right, pepper.
56:29It was easy, fuck, pepper.
56:29It was easy, fuck, pepper.
56:29It was easy, fuck, pepper.
56:29It was easy, fuck, pepper.
56:29It was easy, fuck, pepper.
56:31But then when he came to interview me, he said, well, did you hear the
56:31But then when he came to interview me, he said, well, did you hear the
56:31But then when he came to interview me, he said, well, did you hear the
56:31But then when he came to interview me, he said, well, did you hear the
56:31But then when he came to interview me, he said, well, did you hear the
56:35word pepper? Or did you speak the word pepper?
56:35word pepper? Or did you speak the word pepper?
56:35word pepper? Or did you speak the word pepper?
56:35word pepper? Or did you speak the word pepper?
56:35word pepper? Or did you speak the word pepper?
56:38And that's, you know, suddenly you realize there's voices in your head.
56:38And that's, you know, suddenly you realize there's voices in your head.
56:38And that's, you know, suddenly you realize there's voices in your head.
56:38And that's, you know, suddenly you realize there's voices in your head.
56:38And that's, you know, suddenly you realize there's voices in your head.
56:41You don't know if you're listening or speaking.
56:41You don't know if you're listening or speaking.
56:41You don't know if you're listening or speaking.
56:41You don't know if you're listening or speaking.
56:41You don't know if you're listening or speaking.
56:44And so anyway, you have this long interrogation with him, and he sorts through all
56:44And so anyway, you have this long interrogation with him, and he sorts through all
56:44And so anyway, you have this long interrogation with him, and he sorts through all
56:44And so anyway, you have this long interrogation with him, and he sorts through all
56:44And so anyway, you have this long interrogation with him, and he sorts through all
56:48these things, and he tries to get you to isolate what was before what he
56:48these things, and he tries to get you to isolate what was before what he
56:48these things, and he tries to get you to isolate what was before what he
56:48these things, and he tries to get you to isolate what was before what he
56:48these things, and he tries to get you to isolate what was before what he
56:52would call the footlights of consciousness.
56:52would call the footlights of consciousness.
56:52would call the footlights of consciousness.
56:52would call the footlights of consciousness.
56:52would call the footlights of consciousness.
56:54And I found it really hard.
56:54And I found it really hard.
56:54And I found it really hard.
56:54And I found it really hard.
56:54And I found it really hard.
56:56I couldn't separate the thought the way he wanted me to, because it was, there
56:56I couldn't separate the thought the way he wanted me to, because it was, there
56:56I couldn't separate the thought the way he wanted me to, because it was, there
56:56I couldn't separate the thought the way he wanted me to, because it was, there
56:56I couldn't separate the thought the way he wanted me to, because it was, there
57:02were always several things going on at once.
57:02were always several things going on at once.
57:02were always several things going on at once.
57:02were always several things going on at once.
57:02were always several things going on at once.
57:04Like, I was standing in a bakery, and I was deciding whether to buy a
57:04Like, I was standing in a bakery, and I was deciding whether to buy a
57:04Like, I was standing in a bakery, and I was deciding whether to buy a
57:04Like, I was standing in a bakery, and I was deciding whether to buy a
57:04Like, I was standing in a bakery, and I was deciding whether to buy a
57:08roll or not, another profound thought.
57:08roll or not, another profound thought.
57:08roll or not, another profound thought.
57:08roll or not, another profound thought.
57:08roll or not, another profound thought.
57:11And, but at the same time, I was, like, smelling the baked goods and the
57:11And, but at the same time, I was, like, smelling the baked goods and the
57:11And, but at the same time, I was, like, smelling the baked goods and the
57:11And, but at the same time, I was, like, smelling the baked goods and the
57:11And, but at the same time, I was, like, smelling the baked goods and the
57:16cheeses that they sold, and this woman had this horrible plaid on her skirt that
57:16cheeses that they sold, and this woman had this horrible plaid on her skirt that
57:16cheeses that they sold, and this woman had this horrible plaid on her skirt that
57:16cheeses that they sold, and this woman had this horrible plaid on her skirt that
57:16cheeses that they sold, and this woman had this horrible plaid on her skirt that
57:21was, like, you know, really unflattering.
57:21was, like, you know, really unflattering.
57:21was, like, you know, really unflattering.
57:21was, like, you know, really unflattering.
57:21was, like, you know, really unflattering.
57:23And, and I was hearing people, you know, behind me talking.
57:23And, and I was hearing people, you know, behind me talking.
57:23And, and I was hearing people, you know, behind me talking.
57:23And, and I was hearing people, you know, behind me talking.
57:23And, and I was hearing people, you know, behind me talking.
57:27And so I couldn't pull, I pull all the threads.
57:27And so I couldn't pull, I pull all the threads.
57:27And so I couldn't pull, I pull all the threads.
57:27And so I couldn't pull, I pull all the threads.
57:27And so I couldn't pull, I pull all the threads.
57:30And, and we argued a lot, actually.
57:30And, and we argued a lot, actually.
57:30And, and we argued a lot, actually.
57:30And, and we argued a lot, actually.
57:30And, and we argued a lot, actually.
57:33Um, but the, the thing he's, I said, so after 50 years, what have you
57:33Um, but the, the thing he's, I said, so after 50 years, what have you
57:33Um, but the, the thing he's, I said, so after 50 years, what have you
57:33Um, but the, the thing he's, I said, so after 50 years, what have you
57:33Um, but the, the thing he's, I said, so after 50 years, what have you
57:38learned about human thought? And, um, he's very allergic to theory.
57:38learned about human thought? And, um, he's very allergic to theory.
57:38learned about human thought? And, um, he's very allergic to theory.
57:38learned about human thought? And, um, he's very allergic to theory.
57:38learned about human thought? And, um, he's very allergic to theory.
57:42He, he, he still has no theories about it.
57:42He, he, he still has no theories about it.
57:42He, he, he still has no theories about it.
57:42He, he, he still has no theories about it.
57:42He, he, he still has no theories about it.
57:45But he, he did say, well, a lot of people think they're verbal thinkers, that,
57:45But he, he did say, well, a lot of people think they're verbal thinkers, that,
57:45But he, he did say, well, a lot of people think they're verbal thinkers, that,
57:45But he, he did say, well, a lot of people think they're verbal thinkers, that,
57:45But he, he did say, well, a lot of people think they're verbal thinkers, that,
57:50that their thoughts are in the form of words.
57:50that their thoughts are in the form of words.
57:50that their thoughts are in the form of words.
57:50that their thoughts are in the form of words.
57:50that their thoughts are in the form of words.
57:52But it turns out that's kind of a minority, um, that there are a lot
57:52But it turns out that's kind of a minority, um, that there are a lot
57:52But it turns out that's kind of a minority, um, that there are a lot
57:52But it turns out that's kind of a minority, um, that there are a lot
57:52But it turns out that's kind of a minority, um, that there are a lot
57:56of people who think in images, and then there are a lot of people who
57:56of people who think in images, and then there are a lot of people who
57:56of people who think in images, and then there are a lot of people who
57:56of people who think in images, and then there are a lot of people who
57:56of people who think in images, and then there are a lot of people who
57:59think in unsymbolized thought, which I don't totally understand.
57:59think in unsymbolized thought, which I don't totally understand.
57:59think in unsymbolized thought, which I don't totally understand.
57:59think in unsymbolized thought, which I don't totally understand.
57:59think in unsymbolized thought, which I don't totally understand.
58:02But these are thoughts that are neither words or images.
58:02But these are thoughts that are neither words or images.
58:02But these are thoughts that are neither words or images.
58:02But these are thoughts that are neither words or images.
58:02But these are thoughts that are neither words or images.
58:05I do have a sense in my own thought process, which I'd never thought about
58:05I do have a sense in my own thought process, which I'd never thought about
58:05I do have a sense in my own thought process, which I'd never thought about
58:05I do have a sense in my own thought process, which I'd never thought about
58:05I do have a sense in my own thought process, which I'd never thought about
58:11this way, that, um, a lot of my thoughts are just on the verge of
58:11this way, that, um, a lot of my thoughts are just on the verge of
58:11this way, that, um, a lot of my thoughts are just on the verge of
58:11this way, that, um, a lot of my thoughts are just on the verge of
58:11this way, that, um, a lot of my thoughts are just on the verge of
58:16being word thoughts. But I haven't found the words yet.
58:16being word thoughts. But I haven't found the words yet.
58:16being word thoughts. But I haven't found the words yet.
58:16being word thoughts. But I haven't found the words yet.
58:16being word thoughts. But I haven't found the words yet.
58:19But I know the thought, even though I haven't put it into words.
58:19But I know the thought, even though I haven't put it into words.
58:19But I know the thought, even though I haven't put it into words.
58:19But I know the thought, even though I haven't put it into words.
58:19But I know the thought, even though I haven't put it into words.
58:23And, um, uh, William James called it, uh, uh, premonitory thinking, premonition thinking.
58:23And, um, uh, William James called it, uh, uh, premonitory thinking, premonition thinking.
58:23And, um, uh, William James called it, uh, uh, premonitory thinking, premonition thinking.
58:23And, um, uh, William James called it, uh, uh, premonitory thinking, premonition thinking.
58:23And, um, uh, William James called it, uh, uh, premonitory thinking, premonition thinking.
58:31It was the term he used.
58:31It was the term he used.
58:31It was the term he used.
58:31It was the term he used.
58:31It was the term he used.
58:33Um, so anyway, so we, I, so I did this for several days and we
58:33Um, so anyway, so we, I, so I did this for several days and we
58:33Um, so anyway, so we, I, so I did this for several days and we
58:33Um, so anyway, so we, I, so I did this for several days and we
58:33Um, so anyway, so we, I, so I did this for several days and we
58:38had many arguments and I was saying, look, you can't separate a thought.
58:38had many arguments and I was saying, look, you can't separate a thought.
58:38had many arguments and I was saying, look, you can't separate a thought.
58:38had many arguments and I was saying, look, you can't separate a thought.
58:38had many arguments and I was saying, look, you can't separate a thought.
58:41Every thought colors the next thought.
58:41Every thought colors the next thought.
58:41Every thought colors the next thought.
58:41Every thought colors the next thought.
58:41Every thought colors the next thought.
58:43And, um, you know, there are these, a thought and you never have, anyway, we
58:43And, um, you know, there are these, a thought and you never have, anyway, we
58:43And, um, you know, there are these, a thought and you never have, anyway, we
58:43And, um, you know, there are these, a thought and you never have, anyway, we
58:43And, um, you know, there are these, a thought and you never have, anyway, we
58:49just would go back and forth and I was arguing why you can't separate thoughts.
58:49just would go back and forth and I was arguing why you can't separate thoughts.
58:49just would go back and forth and I was arguing why you can't separate thoughts.
58:49just would go back and forth and I was arguing why you can't separate thoughts.
58:49just would go back and forth and I was arguing why you can't separate thoughts.
58:54It's a stream. It's a very dynamic stream.
58:54It's a stream. It's a very dynamic stream.
58:54It's a stream. It's a very dynamic stream.
58:54It's a stream. It's a very dynamic stream.
58:54It's a stream. It's a very dynamic stream.
58:57And at the end, we had a final session.
58:57And at the end, we had a final session.
58:57And at the end, we had a final session.
58:57And at the end, we had a final session.
58:57And at the end, we had a final session.
59:00Um, and he's, he's a very funny guy.
59:00Um, and he's, he's a very funny guy.
59:00Um, and he's, he's a very funny guy.
59:00Um, and he's, he's a very funny guy.
59:00Um, and he's, he's a very funny guy.
59:03Uh, he's really allergic to theories.
59:03Uh, he's really allergic to theories.
59:03Uh, he's really allergic to theories.
59:03Uh, he's really allergic to theories.
59:03Uh, he's really allergic to theories.
59:05He, at one point, uh, I said, I was writing a book on consciousness and
59:05He, at one point, uh, I said, I was writing a book on consciousness and
59:05He, at one point, uh, I said, I was writing a book on consciousness and
59:05He, at one point, uh, I said, I was writing a book on consciousness and
59:05He, at one point, uh, I said, I was writing a book on consciousness and
59:08he said, good luck with that.
59:08he said, good luck with that.
59:08he said, good luck with that.
59:08he said, good luck with that.
59:08he said, good luck with that.
59:11Very encouraging. Anyway, um, he said, well, he described there are these verbal thinkers and
59:11Very encouraging. Anyway, um, he said, well, he described there are these verbal thinkers and
59:11Very encouraging. Anyway, um, he said, well, he described there are these verbal thinkers and
59:11Very encouraging. Anyway, um, he said, well, he described there are these verbal thinkers and
59:11Very encouraging. Anyway, um, he said, well, he described there are these verbal thinkers and
59:17visual thinkers and unsymbolized thinkers.
59:17visual thinkers and unsymbolized thinkers.
59:17visual thinkers and unsymbolized thinkers.
59:17visual thinkers and unsymbolized thinkers.
59:17visual thinkers and unsymbolized thinkers.
59:20And I find that really interesting because we assume when we say the word, what
59:20And I find that really interesting because we assume when we say the word, what
59:20And I find that really interesting because we assume when we say the word, what
59:20And I find that really interesting because we assume when we say the word, what
59:20And I find that really interesting because we assume when we say the word, what
59:24are you thinking that we know and that you're thinking the way I'm thinking, but
59:24are you thinking that we know and that you're thinking the way I'm thinking, but
59:24are you thinking that we know and that you're thinking the way I'm thinking, but
59:24are you thinking that we know and that you're thinking the way I'm thinking, but
59:24are you thinking that we know and that you're thinking the way I'm thinking, but
59:28it turns out we're not.
59:28it turns out we're not.
59:28it turns out we're not.
59:28it turns out we're not.
59:28it turns out we're not.
59:29We, that's just an umbrella word for many different styles of thinking and, and we're
59:29We, that's just an umbrella word for many different styles of thinking and, and we're
59:29We, that's just an umbrella word for many different styles of thinking and, and we're
59:29We, that's just an umbrella word for many different styles of thinking and, and we're
59:29We, that's just an umbrella word for many different styles of thinking and, and we're
59:34really different. Um, so that was one thing.
59:34really different. Um, so that was one thing.
59:34really different. Um, so that was one thing.
59:34really different. Um, so that was one thing.
59:34really different. Um, so that was one thing.
59:37Um, but the other thing he said in our last meeting on zoom, he said,
59:37Um, but the other thing he said in our last meeting on zoom, he said,
59:37Um, but the other thing he said in our last meeting on zoom, he said,
59:37Um, but the other thing he said in our last meeting on zoom, he said,
59:37Um, but the other thing he said in our last meeting on zoom, he said,
59:40um, there's also a small subset of people who just have very little inner life
59:40um, there's also a small subset of people who just have very little inner life
59:40um, there's also a small subset of people who just have very little inner life
59:40um, there's also a small subset of people who just have very little inner life
59:40um, there's also a small subset of people who just have very little inner life
59:45and you're one of them.
59:45and you're one of them.
59:45and you're one of them.
59:45and you're one of them.
59:45and you're one of them.
59:47Um, and I was like, what, you know, I write books, you know, I meditate,
59:47Um, and I was like, what, you know, I write books, you know, I meditate,
59:47Um, and I was like, what, you know, I write books, you know, I meditate,
59:47Um, and I was like, what, you know, I write books, you know, I meditate,
59:47Um, and I was like, what, you know, I write books, you know, I meditate,
59:54I ruminate. How can he make that distinction though?
59:54I ruminate. How can he make that distinction though?
59:54I ruminate. How can he make that distinction though?
59:54I ruminate. How can he make that distinction though?
59:54I ruminate. How can he make that distinction though?
59:57How does he know what's going on inside your head?
59:57How does he know what's going on inside your head?
59:57How does he know what's going on inside your head?
59:57How does he know what's going on inside your head?
59:57How does he know what's going on inside your head?
59:59He felt that my inability to isolate a thought was evidence that there weren't thoughts.
59:59He felt that my inability to isolate a thought was evidence that there weren't thoughts.
59:59He felt that my inability to isolate a thought was evidence that there weren't thoughts.
59:59He felt that my inability to isolate a thought was evidence that there weren't thoughts.
59:59He felt that my inability to isolate a thought was evidence that there weren't thoughts.
1:00:07And then I was kind of backfilling with all this other, you know, simultaneous stuff
1:00:07And then I was kind of backfilling with all this other, you know, simultaneous stuff
1:00:07And then I was kind of backfilling with all this other, you know, simultaneous stuff
1:00:07And then I was kind of backfilling with all this other, you know, simultaneous stuff
1:00:07And then I was kind of backfilling with all this other, you know, simultaneous stuff
1:00:11going on. I mean, I, I didn't agree with him.
1:00:11going on. I mean, I, I didn't agree with him.
1:00:11going on. I mean, I, I didn't agree with him.
1:00:11going on. I mean, I, I didn't agree with him.
1:00:11going on. I mean, I, I didn't agree with him.
1:00:14I thought it was kind of crazy.
1:00:14I thought it was kind of crazy.
1:00:14I thought it was kind of crazy.
1:00:14I thought it was kind of crazy.
1:00:14I thought it was kind of crazy.
1:00:16Um, but that's, that's. Have you asked him, have you ever conversations with him about
1:00:16Um, but that's, that's. Have you asked him, have you ever conversations with him about
1:00:16Um, but that's, that's. Have you asked him, have you ever conversations with him about
1:00:16Um, but that's, that's. Have you asked him, have you ever conversations with him about
1:00:16Um, but that's, that's. Have you asked him, have you ever conversations with him about
1:00:20other things? See how he thinks?
1:00:20other things? See how he thinks?
1:00:20other things? See how he thinks?
1:00:20other things? See how he thinks?
1:00:20other things? See how he thinks?
1:00:23No, he's very much in the therapist mode.
1:00:23No, he's very much in the therapist mode.
1:00:23No, he's very much in the therapist mode.
1:00:23No, he's very much in the therapist mode.
1:00:23No, he's very much in the therapist mode.
1:00:26Like he's asking the questions.
1:00:26Like he's asking the questions.
1:00:26Like he's asking the questions.
1:00:26Like he's asking the questions.
1:00:26Like he's asking the questions.
1:00:28Yeah. I'd like to know like how he thinks.
1:00:28Yeah. I'd like to know like how he thinks.
1:00:28Yeah. I'd like to know like how he thinks.
1:00:28Yeah. I'd like to know like how he thinks.
1:00:28Yeah. I'd like to know like how he thinks.
1:00:30Yeah. If that's what his mode is.
1:00:30Yeah. If that's what his mode is.
1:00:30Yeah. If that's what his mode is.
1:00:30Yeah. If that's what his mode is.
1:00:30Yeah. If that's what his mode is.
1:00:32I'd like to talk to him about it.
1:00:32I'd like to talk to him about it.
1:00:32I'd like to talk to him about it.
1:00:32I'd like to talk to him about it.
1:00:32I'd like to talk to him about it.
1:00:33Now he would probably say that.
1:00:33Now he would probably say that.
1:00:33Now he would probably say that.
1:00:33Now he would probably say that.
1:00:33Now he would probably say that.
1:00:35Um, anyway, he's posted all these conversations on his website.
1:00:35Um, anyway, he's posted all these conversations on his website.
1:00:35Um, anyway, he's posted all these conversations on his website.
1:00:35Um, anyway, he's posted all these conversations on his website.
1:00:35Um, anyway, he's posted all these conversations on his website.
1:00:38So if people really want to be bored, they can check them out.
1:00:38So if people really want to be bored, they can check them out.
1:00:38So if people really want to be bored, they can check them out.
1:00:38So if people really want to be bored, they can check them out.
1:00:38So if people really want to be bored, they can check them out.
1:00:41That's a weird thing to say that, you know, especially someone like you who writes
1:00:41That's a weird thing to say that, you know, especially someone like you who writes
1:00:41That's a weird thing to say that, you know, especially someone like you who writes
1:00:41That's a weird thing to say that, you know, especially someone like you who writes
1:00:41That's a weird thing to say that, you know, especially someone like you who writes
1:00:46and does think a lot and clearly is, is got some sort of dialogue going
1:00:46and does think a lot and clearly is, is got some sort of dialogue going
1:00:46and does think a lot and clearly is, is got some sort of dialogue going
1:00:46and does think a lot and clearly is, is got some sort of dialogue going
1:00:46and does think a lot and clearly is, is got some sort of dialogue going
1:00:51on in your head. The idea that you don't.
1:00:51on in your head. The idea that you don't.
1:00:51on in your head. The idea that you don't.
1:00:51on in your head. The idea that you don't.
1:00:51on in your head. The idea that you don't.
1:00:54And this guy can say that.
1:00:54And this guy can say that.
1:00:54And this guy can say that.
1:00:54And this guy can say that.
1:00:54And this guy can say that.
1:00:55I know. That seems a little arrogant.
1:00:55I know. That seems a little arrogant.
1:00:55I know. That seems a little arrogant.
1:00:55I know. That seems a little arrogant.
1:00:55I know. That seems a little arrogant.
1:00:58Yeah. I think I just didn't fit his template of like how people think.
1:00:58Yeah. I think I just didn't fit his template of like how people think.
1:00:58Yeah. I think I just didn't fit his template of like how people think.
1:00:58Yeah. I think I just didn't fit his template of like how people think.
1:00:58Yeah. I think I just didn't fit his template of like how people think.
1:01:03Yeah. Well, that's why you should get a better therapist.
1:01:03Yeah. Well, that's why you should get a better therapist.
1:01:03Yeah. Well, that's why you should get a better therapist.
1:01:03Yeah. Well, that's why you should get a better therapist.
1:01:03Yeah. Well, that's why you should get a better therapist.
1:01:06Move around. All right. Find somebody else.
1:01:06Move around. All right. Find somebody else.
1:01:06Move around. All right. Find somebody else.
1:01:06Move around. All right. Find somebody else.
1:01:06Move around. All right. Find somebody else.
1:01:09Good advice. I mean, it seems like that's a very narrow.
1:01:09Good advice. I mean, it seems like that's a very narrow.
1:01:09Good advice. I mean, it seems like that's a very narrow.
1:01:09Good advice. I mean, it seems like that's a very narrow.
1:01:09Good advice. I mean, it seems like that's a very narrow.
1:01:12I couldn't imagine saying to anyone.
1:01:12I couldn't imagine saying to anyone.
1:01:12I couldn't imagine saying to anyone.
1:01:12I couldn't imagine saying to anyone.
1:01:12I couldn't imagine saying to anyone.
1:01:15Yeah. You have very little in her life.
1:01:15Yeah. You have very little in her life.
1:01:15Yeah. You have very little in her life.
1:01:15Yeah. You have very little in her life.
1:01:15Yeah. You have very little in her life.
1:01:17Yeah. Well, regardless of what kind of, you know, theory I'm following or, you know,
1:01:17Yeah. Well, regardless of what kind of, you know, theory I'm following or, you know,
1:01:17Yeah. Well, regardless of what kind of, you know, theory I'm following or, you know,
1:01:17Yeah. Well, regardless of what kind of, you know, theory I'm following or, you know,
1:01:17Yeah. Well, regardless of what kind of, you know, theory I'm following or, you know,
1:01:21what school of thought, I don't know what's going on in your head.
1:01:21what school of thought, I don't know what's going on in your head.
1:01:21what school of thought, I don't know what's going on in your head.
1:01:21what school of thought, I don't know what's going on in your head.
1:01:21what school of thought, I don't know what's going on in your head.
1:01:25I can't. It's not possible.
1:01:25I can't. It's not possible.
1:01:25I can't. It's not possible.
1:01:25I can't. It's not possible.
1:01:25I can't. It's not possible.
1:01:27No. And that's it. There's a, William James said this, the great, you know, founder
1:01:27No. And that's it. There's a, William James said this, the great, you know, founder
1:01:27No. And that's it. There's a, William James said this, the great, you know, founder
1:01:27No. And that's it. There's a, William James said this, the great, you know, founder
1:01:27No. And that's it. There's a, William James said this, the great, you know, founder
1:01:32of American psychology, that the breach between two consciousnesses is one of the biggest breaches
1:01:32of American psychology, that the breach between two consciousnesses is one of the biggest breaches
1:01:32of American psychology, that the breach between two consciousnesses is one of the biggest breaches
1:01:32of American psychology, that the breach between two consciousnesses is one of the biggest breaches
1:01:32of American psychology, that the breach between two consciousnesses is one of the biggest breaches
1:01:36in nature. Yes. And we, you know, I don't know your conscious for a fact.
1:01:36in nature. Yes. And we, you know, I don't know your conscious for a fact.
1:01:36in nature. Yes. And we, you know, I don't know your conscious for a fact.
1:01:36in nature. Yes. And we, you know, I don't know your conscious for a fact.
1:01:36in nature. Yes. And we, you know, I don't know your conscious for a fact.
1:01:42I assume it because your behaviors mesh and we're the same species.
1:01:42I assume it because your behaviors mesh and we're the same species.
1:01:42I assume it because your behaviors mesh and we're the same species.
1:01:42I assume it because your behaviors mesh and we're the same species.
1:01:42I assume it because your behaviors mesh and we're the same species.
1:01:47And we have theory of mind.
1:01:47And we have theory of mind.
1:01:47And we have theory of mind.
1:01:47And we have theory of mind.
1:01:47And we have theory of mind.
1:01:49We can imagine our way into someone else's head.
1:01:49We can imagine our way into someone else's head.
1:01:49We can imagine our way into someone else's head.
1:01:49We can imagine our way into someone else's head.
1:01:49We can imagine our way into someone else's head.
1:01:51But it's a guess. It's a guess.
1:01:51But it's a guess. It's a guess.
1:01:51But it's a guess. It's a guess.
1:01:51But it's a guess. It's a guess.
1:01:51But it's a guess. It's a guess.
1:01:53And so there's, I mean, that's part of the mystery.
1:01:53And so there's, I mean, that's part of the mystery.
1:01:53And so there's, I mean, that's part of the mystery.
1:01:53And so there's, I mean, that's part of the mystery.
1:01:53And so there's, I mean, that's part of the mystery.
1:01:57Well, it's one of the things that I do when I'm talking to people.
1:01:57Well, it's one of the things that I do when I'm talking to people.
1:01:57Well, it's one of the things that I do when I'm talking to people.
1:01:57Well, it's one of the things that I do when I'm talking to people.
1:01:57Well, it's one of the things that I do when I'm talking to people.
1:01:59I try to imagine, well, I'm so fortunate that I've been able to have so
1:01:59I try to imagine, well, I'm so fortunate that I've been able to have so
1:01:59I try to imagine, well, I'm so fortunate that I've been able to have so
1:01:59I try to imagine, well, I'm so fortunate that I've been able to have so
1:01:59I try to imagine, well, I'm so fortunate that I've been able to have so
1:02:05many conversations with so many different people, so many different ways that people view the
1:02:05many conversations with so many different people, so many different ways that people view the
1:02:05many conversations with so many different people, so many different ways that people view the
1:02:05many conversations with so many different people, so many different ways that people view the
1:02:05many conversations with so many different people, so many different ways that people view the
1:02:09world. And when I'm talking to someone, particularly if they're very different from me or
1:02:09world. And when I'm talking to someone, particularly if they're very different from me or
1:02:09world. And when I'm talking to someone, particularly if they're very different from me or
1:02:09world. And when I'm talking to someone, particularly if they're very different from me or
1:02:09world. And when I'm talking to someone, particularly if they're very different from me or
1:02:14anyone I know, I always try to put myself in their head.
1:02:14anyone I know, I always try to put myself in their head.
1:02:14anyone I know, I always try to put myself in their head.
1:02:14anyone I know, I always try to put myself in their head.
1:02:14anyone I know, I always try to put myself in their head.
1:02:18Yeah. And I, after they talk.
1:02:18Yeah. And I, after they talk.
1:02:18Yeah. And I, after they talk.
1:02:18Yeah. And I, after they talk.
1:02:18Yeah. And I, after they talk.
1:02:20for 15 or 20 minutes i try to like recognize like how they approach things
1:02:20for 15 or 20 minutes i try to like recognize like how they approach things
1:02:20for 15 or 20 minutes i try to like recognize like how they approach things
1:02:20for 15 or 20 minutes i try to like recognize like how they approach things
1:02:20for 15 or 20 minutes i try to like recognize like how they approach things
1:02:26and see if i'm like what is that what's that world like like this person's
1:02:26and see if i'm like what is that what's that world like like this person's
1:02:26and see if i'm like what is that what's that world like like this person's
1:02:26and see if i'm like what is that what's that world like like this person's
1:02:26and see if i'm like what is that what's that world like like this person's
1:02:32perspective especially you're operating on two tracks yeah you're you're holding the conversation yeah but
1:02:32perspective especially you're operating on two tracks yeah you're you're holding the conversation yeah but
1:02:32perspective especially you're operating on two tracks yeah you're you're holding the conversation yeah but
1:02:32perspective especially you're operating on two tracks yeah you're you're holding the conversation yeah but
1:02:32perspective especially you're operating on two tracks yeah you're you're holding the conversation yeah but
1:02:37you're also thinking i'm trying to tune in yeah right i'm trying because i always
1:02:37you're also thinking i'm trying to tune in yeah right i'm trying because i always
1:02:37you're also thinking i'm trying to tune in yeah right i'm trying because i always
1:02:37you're also thinking i'm trying to tune in yeah right i'm trying because i always
1:02:37you're also thinking i'm trying to tune in yeah right i'm trying because i always
1:02:42feel like when someone is like a great performance like a great comedian or a
1:02:42feel like when someone is like a great performance like a great comedian or a
1:02:42feel like when someone is like a great performance like a great comedian or a
1:02:42feel like when someone is like a great performance like a great comedian or a
1:02:42feel like when someone is like a great performance like a great comedian or a
1:02:47great musician one of the things that they're doing is they're bringing you into their
1:02:47great musician one of the things that they're doing is they're bringing you into their
1:02:47great musician one of the things that they're doing is they're bringing you into their
1:02:47great musician one of the things that they're doing is they're bringing you into their
1:02:47great musician one of the things that they're doing is they're bringing you into their
1:02:50head yeah like there's a there's a hypnosis when someone sings an amazing song and
1:02:50head yeah like there's a there's a hypnosis when someone sings an amazing song and
1:02:50head yeah like there's a there's a hypnosis when someone sings an amazing song and
1:02:50head yeah like there's a there's a hypnosis when someone sings an amazing song and
1:02:50head yeah like there's a there's a hypnosis when someone sings an amazing song and
1:02:55the whole crowd is singing along there's there's a hypnotic element to that where when
1:02:55the whole crowd is singing along there's there's a hypnotic element to that where when
1:02:55the whole crowd is singing along there's there's a hypnotic element to that where when
1:02:55the whole crowd is singing along there's there's a hypnotic element to that where when
1:02:55the whole crowd is singing along there's there's a hypnotic element to that where when
1:03:00someone's like really killing it on stage their voice is just perfect it's like oh
1:03:00someone's like really killing it on stage their voice is just perfect it's like oh
1:03:00someone's like really killing it on stage their voice is just perfect it's like oh
1:03:00someone's like really killing it on stage their voice is just perfect it's like oh
1:03:00someone's like really killing it on stage their voice is just perfect it's like oh
1:03:04yeah like you're in their head like it's it's a it's a mind melt it's
1:03:04yeah like you're in their head like it's it's a it's a mind melt it's
1:03:04yeah like you're in their head like it's it's a it's a mind melt it's
1:03:04yeah like you're in their head like it's it's a it's a mind melt it's
1:03:04yeah like you're in their head like it's it's a it's a mind melt it's
1:03:09yeah it is a mind melt and there's a little bit of that that goes
1:03:09yeah it is a mind melt and there's a little bit of that that goes
1:03:09yeah it is a mind melt and there's a little bit of that that goes
1:03:09yeah it is a mind melt and there's a little bit of that that goes
1:03:09yeah it is a mind melt and there's a little bit of that that goes
1:03:12on in conversations there's a mind melt and i always try especially if this is
1:03:12on in conversations there's a mind melt and i always try especially if this is
1:03:12on in conversations there's a mind melt and i always try especially if this is
1:03:12on in conversations there's a mind melt and i always try especially if this is
1:03:12on in conversations there's a mind melt and i always try especially if this is
1:03:19a rational person i always try to put myself in their head or at least
1:03:19a rational person i always try to put myself in their head or at least
1:03:19a rational person i always try to put myself in their head or at least
1:03:19a rational person i always try to put myself in their head or at least
1:03:19a rational person i always try to put myself in their head or at least
1:03:23empty out mine yeah and let them think and then try to just keep the
1:03:23empty out mine yeah and let them think and then try to just keep the
1:03:23empty out mine yeah and let them think and then try to just keep the
1:03:23empty out mine yeah and let them think and then try to just keep the
1:03:23empty out mine yeah and let them think and then try to just keep the
1:03:28conversation rolling yeah with just pure curiosity yeah but always you know try to think
1:03:28conversation rolling yeah with just pure curiosity yeah but always you know try to think
1:03:28conversation rolling yeah with just pure curiosity yeah but always you know try to think
1:03:28conversation rolling yeah with just pure curiosity yeah but always you know try to think
1:03:28conversation rolling yeah with just pure curiosity yeah but always you know try to think
1:03:35i don't think the same way other people do and maybe maybe i can learn
1:03:35i don't think the same way other people do and maybe maybe i can learn
1:03:35i don't think the same way other people do and maybe maybe i can learn
1:03:35i don't think the same way other people do and maybe maybe i can learn
1:03:35i don't think the same way other people do and maybe maybe i can learn
1:03:40something from this maybe i can get something out of the way they think seems
1:03:40something from this maybe i can get something out of the way they think seems
1:03:40something from this maybe i can get something out of the way they think seems
1:03:40something from this maybe i can get something out of the way they think seems
1:03:40something from this maybe i can get something out of the way they think seems
1:03:44to me you're you're you have a real gift of curiosity um i mean that's
1:03:44to me you're you're you have a real gift of curiosity um i mean that's
1:03:44to me you're you're you have a real gift of curiosity um i mean that's
1:03:44to me you're you're you have a real gift of curiosity um i mean that's
1:03:44to me you're you're you have a real gift of curiosity um i mean that's
1:03:49a it's a big gift you're intensely curious person well i've always been that way
1:03:49a it's a big gift you're intensely curious person well i've always been that way
1:03:49a it's a big gift you're intensely curious person well i've always been that way
1:03:49a it's a big gift you're intensely curious person well i've always been that way
1:03:49a it's a big gift you're intensely curious person well i've always been that way
1:03:54but i've been very fortunate that i've had something like this that allowed me to
1:03:54but i've been very fortunate that i've had something like this that allowed me to
1:03:54but i've been very fortunate that i've had something like this that allowed me to
1:03:54but i've been very fortunate that i've had something like this that allowed me to
1:03:54but i've been very fortunate that i've had something like this that allowed me to
1:03:58feed it yeah you know i mean the the vast majority of time on my
1:03:58feed it yeah you know i mean the the vast majority of time on my
1:03:58feed it yeah you know i mean the the vast majority of time on my
1:03:58feed it yeah you know i mean the the vast majority of time on my
1:03:58feed it yeah you know i mean the the vast majority of time on my
1:04:03phone i just pursue curiosities i don't i really am mostly you mean looking stuff
1:04:03phone i just pursue curiosities i don't i really am mostly you mean looking stuff
1:04:03phone i just pursue curiosities i don't i really am mostly you mean looking stuff
1:04:03phone i just pursue curiosities i don't i really am mostly you mean looking stuff
1:04:03phone i just pursue curiosities i don't i really am mostly you mean looking stuff
1:04:09up social media yeah yeah i've watched interesting youtube videos like i went down a
1:04:09up social media yeah yeah i've watched interesting youtube videos like i went down a
1:04:09up social media yeah yeah i've watched interesting youtube videos like i went down a
1:04:09up social media yeah yeah i've watched interesting youtube videos like i went down a
1:04:09up social media yeah yeah i've watched interesting youtube videos like i went down a
1:04:14black hole rabbit hole last night oh my god you want to really break your
1:04:14black hole rabbit hole last night oh my god you want to really break your
1:04:14black hole rabbit hole last night oh my god you want to really break your
1:04:14black hole rabbit hole last night oh my god you want to really break your
1:04:14black hole rabbit hole last night oh my god you want to really break your
1:04:18brain there was a there's a video of brian cox where he's talking about this
1:04:18brain there was a there's a video of brian cox where he's talking about this
1:04:18brain there was a there's a video of brian cox where he's talking about this
1:04:18brain there was a there's a video of brian cox where he's talking about this
1:04:18brain there was a there's a video of brian cox where he's talking about this
1:04:21black hole that they found that's bigger than our entire solar system wow it the
1:04:21black hole that they found that's bigger than our entire solar system wow it the
1:04:21black hole that they found that's bigger than our entire solar system wow it the
1:04:21black hole that they found that's bigger than our entire solar system wow it the
1:04:21black hole that they found that's bigger than our entire solar system wow it the
1:04:26event horizon extends far beyond pluto that's that is mind -blowing yeah it when he
1:04:26event horizon extends far beyond pluto that's that is mind -blowing yeah it when he
1:04:26event horizon extends far beyond pluto that's that is mind -blowing yeah it when he
1:04:26event horizon extends far beyond pluto that's that is mind -blowing yeah it when he
1:04:26event horizon extends far beyond pluto that's that is mind -blowing yeah it when he
1:04:35was described he said we don't understand why it exists we don't understand how it
1:04:35was described he said we don't understand why it exists we don't understand how it
1:04:35was described he said we don't understand why it exists we don't understand how it
1:04:35was described he said we don't understand why it exists we don't understand how it
1:04:35was described he said we don't understand why it exists we don't understand how it
1:04:39could have formed so early in the universe but yet there it is how do
1:04:39could have formed so early in the universe but yet there it is how do
1:04:39could have formed so early in the universe but yet there it is how do
1:04:39could have formed so early in the universe but yet there it is how do
1:04:39could have formed so early in the universe but yet there it is how do
1:04:43they measure it how do they know how big it is i don't know i'm
1:04:43they measure it how do they know how big it is i don't know i'm
1:04:43they measure it how do they know how big it is i don't know i'm
1:04:43they measure it how do they know how big it is i don't know i'm
1:04:43they measure it how do they know how big it is i don't know i'm
1:04:47assuming there's a lot of revelations that have come out uh since the implementation of
1:04:47assuming there's a lot of revelations that have come out uh since the implementation of
1:04:47assuming there's a lot of revelations that have come out uh since the implementation of
1:04:47assuming there's a lot of revelations that have come out uh since the implementation of
1:04:47assuming there's a lot of revelations that have come out uh since the implementation of
1:04:52the james webb telescope yeah and this is those images are incredible insane yeah insane
1:04:52the james webb telescope yeah and this is those images are incredible insane yeah insane
1:04:52the james webb telescope yeah and this is those images are incredible insane yeah insane
1:04:52the james webb telescope yeah and this is those images are incredible insane yeah insane
1:04:52the james webb telescope yeah and this is those images are incredible insane yeah insane
1:04:57and this is one that's causing this very interesting um new uh theory or perspective
1:04:57and this is one that's causing this very interesting um new uh theory or perspective
1:04:57and this is one that's causing this very interesting um new uh theory or perspective
1:04:57and this is one that's causing this very interesting um new uh theory or perspective
1:04:57and this is one that's causing this very interesting um new uh theory or perspective
1:05:05on the age of the universe so there's some galaxies that they've found that shouldn't
1:05:05on the age of the universe so there's some galaxies that they've found that shouldn't
1:05:05on the age of the universe so there's some galaxies that they've found that shouldn't
1:05:05on the age of the universe so there's some galaxies that they've found that shouldn't
1:05:05on the age of the universe so there's some galaxies that they've found that shouldn't
1:05:10have oh yeah yeah i read about this that it's it's it's throwing all their
1:05:10have oh yeah yeah i read about this that it's it's it's throwing all their
1:05:10have oh yeah yeah i read about this that it's it's it's throwing all their
1:05:10have oh yeah yeah i read about this that it's it's it's throwing all their
1:05:10have oh yeah yeah i read about this that it's it's it's throwing all their
1:05:14assumptions about the age of the universe up for grabs which makes sense because the
1:05:14assumptions about the age of the universe up for grabs which makes sense because the
1:05:14assumptions about the age of the universe up for grabs which makes sense because the
1:05:14assumptions about the age of the universe up for grabs which makes sense because the
1:05:14assumptions about the age of the universe up for grabs which makes sense because the
1:05:17further you can look back the more you're going to be able to see the
1:05:17further you can look back the more you're going to be able to see the
1:05:17further you can look back the more you're going to be able to see the
1:05:17further you can look back the more you're going to be able to see the
1:05:17further you can look back the more you're going to be able to see the
1:05:20assumption that the universe was 13 .7 billion years old was essentially based on as
1:05:20assumption that the universe was 13 .7 billion years old was essentially based on as
1:05:20assumption that the universe was 13 .7 billion years old was essentially based on as
1:05:20assumption that the universe was 13 .7 billion years old was essentially based on as
1:05:20assumption that the universe was 13 .7 billion years old was essentially based on as
1:05:25far as we could go yeah and then you know the analysis of the the
1:05:25far as we could go yeah and then you know the analysis of the the
1:05:25far as we could go yeah and then you know the analysis of the the
1:05:25far as we could go yeah and then you know the analysis of the the
1:05:25far as we could go yeah and then you know the analysis of the the
1:05:29radio waves that are coming from the supposed explosion and then you've got guys like
1:05:29radio waves that are coming from the supposed explosion and then you've got guys like
1:05:29radio waves that are coming from the supposed explosion and then you've got guys like
1:05:29radio waves that are coming from the supposed explosion and then you've got guys like
1:05:29radio waves that are coming from the supposed explosion and then you've got guys like
1:05:34sir roger penrose who say no this is a constant cycle it's not one birth
1:05:34sir roger penrose who say no this is a constant cycle it's not one birth
1:05:34sir roger penrose who say no this is a constant cycle it's not one birth
1:05:34sir roger penrose who say no this is a constant cycle it's not one birth
1:05:34sir roger penrose who say no this is a constant cycle it's not one birth
1:05:39of the universe it's it's boom smash boom smash forever it's an accordion and it's
1:05:39of the universe it's it's boom smash boom smash forever it's an accordion and it's
1:05:39of the universe it's it's boom smash boom smash forever it's an accordion and it's
1:05:39of the universe it's it's boom smash boom smash forever it's an accordion and it's
1:05:39of the universe it's it's boom smash boom smash forever it's an accordion and it's
1:05:45always happened which is the ultimate mind fuck well you know the interesting thing about
1:05:45always happened which is the ultimate mind fuck well you know the interesting thing about
1:05:45always happened which is the ultimate mind fuck well you know the interesting thing about
1:05:45always happened which is the ultimate mind fuck well you know the interesting thing about
1:05:45always happened which is the ultimate mind fuck well you know the interesting thing about
1:05:50astronomy actually astronomy and consciousness studies have the same problem which is you can't get
1:05:50astronomy actually astronomy and consciousness studies have the same problem which is you can't get
1:05:50astronomy actually astronomy and consciousness studies have the same problem which is you can't get
1:05:50astronomy actually astronomy and consciousness studies have the same problem which is you can't get
1:05:50astronomy actually astronomy and consciousness studies have the same problem which is you can't get
1:05:58out of consciousness to study it from a distance right everything every tool you have
1:05:58out of consciousness to study it from a distance right everything every tool you have
1:05:58out of consciousness to study it from a distance right everything every tool you have
1:05:58out of consciousness to study it from a distance right everything every tool you have
1:05:58out of consciousness to study it from a distance right everything every tool you have
1:06:04to study consciousness is a product of consciousness including science the scientific enterprise is a
1:06:04to study consciousness is a product of consciousness including science the scientific enterprise is a
1:06:04to study consciousness is a product of consciousness including science the scientific enterprise is a
1:06:04to study consciousness is a product of consciousness including science the scientific enterprise is a
1:06:04to study consciousness is a product of consciousness including science the scientific enterprise is a
1:06:09manifestation of human consciousness the the the problems you decide to study the the tools
1:06:09manifestation of human consciousness the the the problems you decide to study the the tools
1:06:09manifestation of human consciousness the the the problems you decide to study the the tools
1:06:09manifestation of human consciousness the the the problems you decide to study the the tools
1:06:09manifestation of human consciousness the the the problems you decide to study the the tools
1:06:15you have to do it with the scale at which you're working it's all like
1:06:15you have to do it with the scale at which you're working it's all like
1:06:15you have to do it with the scale at which you're working it's all like
1:06:15you have to do it with the scale at which you're working it's all like
1:06:15you have to do it with the scale at which you're working it's all like
1:06:19a product of consciousness astronomy too has to is trying to understand something it can't
1:06:19a product of consciousness astronomy too has to is trying to understand something it can't
1:06:19a product of consciousness astronomy too has to is trying to understand something it can't
1:06:19a product of consciousness astronomy too has to is trying to understand something it can't
1:06:19a product of consciousness astronomy too has to is trying to understand something it can't
1:06:25get outside of right i mean because its subject is everything that there is the
1:06:25get outside of right i mean because its subject is everything that there is the
1:06:25get outside of right i mean because its subject is everything that there is the
1:06:25get outside of right i mean because its subject is everything that there is the
1:06:25get outside of right i mean because its subject is everything that there is the
1:06:30universe so you can do interesting things from inside using telescopes and you know you
1:06:30universe so you can do interesting things from inside using telescopes and you know you
1:06:30universe so you can do interesting things from inside using telescopes and you know you
1:06:30universe so you can do interesting things from inside using telescopes and you know you
1:06:30universe so you can do interesting things from inside using telescopes and you know you
1:06:36can figure out how old things are and and rates of expansion and all this
1:06:36can figure out how old things are and and rates of expansion and all this
1:06:36can figure out how old things are and and rates of expansion and all this
1:06:36can figure out how old things are and and rates of expansion and all this
1:06:36can figure out how old things are and and rates of expansion and all this
1:06:40kind of stuff but you you can never get that godlike perspective that we have
1:06:40kind of stuff but you you can never get that godlike perspective that we have
1:06:40kind of stuff but you you can never get that godlike perspective that we have
1:06:40kind of stuff but you you can never get that godlike perspective that we have
1:06:40kind of stuff but you you can never get that godlike perspective that we have
1:06:45with other scientific problems and this is i think part of the reason we haven't
1:06:45with other scientific problems and this is i think part of the reason we haven't
1:06:45with other scientific problems and this is i think part of the reason we haven't
1:06:45with other scientific problems and this is i think part of the reason we haven't
1:06:45with other scientific problems and this is i think part of the reason we haven't
1:06:50solved the the consciousness problem that we can't get outside we're in it's in we're
1:06:50solved the the consciousness problem that we can't get outside we're in it's in we're
1:06:50solved the the consciousness problem that we can't get outside we're in it's in we're
1:06:50solved the the consciousness problem that we can't get outside we're in it's in we're
1:06:50solved the the consciousness problem that we can't get outside we're in it's in we're
1:06:56in a labyrinth and everything everything we know is consciousness i mean which is a
1:06:56in a labyrinth and everything everything we know is consciousness i mean which is a
1:06:56in a labyrinth and everything everything we know is consciousness i mean which is a
1:06:56in a labyrinth and everything everything we know is consciousness i mean which is a
1:06:56in a labyrinth and everything everything we know is consciousness i mean which is a
1:07:02very weird idea i remember asking uh christophe koch the scientist i mentioned earlier i
1:07:02very weird idea i remember asking uh christophe koch the scientist i mentioned earlier i
1:07:02very weird idea i remember asking uh christophe koch the scientist i mentioned earlier i
1:07:02very weird idea i remember asking uh christophe koch the scientist i mentioned earlier i
1:07:02very weird idea i remember asking uh christophe koch the scientist i mentioned earlier i
1:07:07said well what would the world be like without any consciousness and that is a
1:07:07said well what would the world be like without any consciousness and that is a
1:07:07said well what would the world be like without any consciousness and that is a
1:07:07said well what would the world be like without any consciousness and that is a
1:07:07said well what would the world be like without any consciousness and that is a
1:07:12trippy thought um because everything we perceive is you know the scale of things like
1:07:12trippy thought um because everything we perceive is you know the scale of things like
1:07:12trippy thought um because everything we perceive is you know the scale of things like
1:07:12trippy thought um because everything we perceive is you know the scale of things like
1:07:12trippy thought um because everything we perceive is you know the scale of things like
1:07:19we we we operate at this scale right we're like five or six feet tall
1:07:19we we we operate at this scale right we're like five or six feet tall
1:07:19we we we operate at this scale right we're like five or six feet tall
1:07:19we we we operate at this scale right we're like five or six feet tall
1:07:19we we we operate at this scale right we're like five or six feet tall
1:07:23um we have bodies like this but there's another world going on microscopically and there's
1:07:23um we have bodies like this but there's another world going on microscopically and there's
1:07:23um we have bodies like this but there's another world going on microscopically and there's
1:07:23um we have bodies like this but there's another world going on microscopically and there's
1:07:23um we have bodies like this but there's another world going on microscopically and there's
1:07:28another world going on macroscopically so if there's no consciousness what's the proper scale there
1:07:28another world going on macroscopically so if there's no consciousness what's the proper scale there
1:07:28another world going on macroscopically so if there's no consciousness what's the proper scale there
1:07:28another world going on macroscopically so if there's no consciousness what's the proper scale there
1:07:28another world going on macroscopically so if there's no consciousness what's the proper scale there
1:07:34isn't any and when i asked him this question he said particles and waves that's
1:07:34isn't any and when i asked him this question he said particles and waves that's
1:07:34isn't any and when i asked him this question he said particles and waves that's
1:07:34isn't any and when i asked him this question he said particles and waves that's
1:07:34isn't any and when i asked him this question he said particles and waves that's
1:07:38all there is there'd be nothing but particles and waves there might not even be
1:07:38all there is there'd be nothing but particles and waves there might not even be
1:07:38all there is there'd be nothing but particles and waves there might not even be
1:07:38all there is there'd be nothing but particles and waves there might not even be
1:07:38all there is there'd be nothing but particles and waves there might not even be
1:07:41space time that may be a product of consciousness also so that was um kind
1:07:41space time that may be a product of consciousness also so that was um kind
1:07:41space time that may be a product of consciousness also so that was um kind
1:07:41space time that may be a product of consciousness also so that was um kind
1:07:41space time that may be a product of consciousness also so that was um kind
1:07:49of mind -blowing to learn that's the weirdest perspective is that consciousness is a part
1:07:49of mind -blowing to learn that's the weirdest perspective is that consciousness is a part
1:07:49of mind -blowing to learn that's the weirdest perspective is that consciousness is a part
1:07:49of mind -blowing to learn that's the weirdest perspective is that consciousness is a part
1:07:49of mind -blowing to learn that's the weirdest perspective is that consciousness is a part
1:07:55of reality that it is how reality is formed and that without consciousness and the
1:07:55of reality that it is how reality is formed and that without consciousness and the
1:07:55of reality that it is how reality is formed and that without consciousness and the
1:07:55of reality that it is how reality is formed and that without consciousness and the
1:07:55of reality that it is how reality is formed and that without consciousness and the
1:08:01perceiving of all this you don't have doesn't exist something exists something but it's not
1:08:01perceiving of all this you don't have doesn't exist something exists something but it's not
1:08:01perceiving of all this you don't have doesn't exist something exists something but it's not
1:08:01perceiving of all this you don't have doesn't exist something exists something but it's not
1:08:01perceiving of all this you don't have doesn't exist something exists something but it's not
1:08:07it has no shape it has no scale it has no right uh because consciousness
1:08:07it has no shape it has no scale it has no right uh because consciousness
1:08:07it has no shape it has no scale it has no right uh because consciousness
1:08:07it has no shape it has no scale it has no right uh because consciousness
1:08:07it has no shape it has no scale it has no right uh because consciousness
1:08:13is what's perceiving light and we're perceiving colors and and it's constructing but it really
1:08:13is what's perceiving light and we're perceiving colors and and it's constructing but it really
1:08:13is what's perceiving light and we're perceiving colors and and it's constructing but it really
1:08:13is what's perceiving light and we're perceiving colors and and it's constructing but it really
1:08:13is what's perceiving light and we're perceiving colors and and it's constructing but it really
1:08:18is just particles yeah and waves and waves and particles and atoms yeah subatomic particles
1:08:18is just particles yeah and waves and waves and particles and atoms yeah subatomic particles
1:08:18is just particles yeah and waves and waves and particles and atoms yeah subatomic particles
1:08:18is just particles yeah and waves and waves and particles and atoms yeah subatomic particles
1:08:18is just particles yeah and waves and waves and particles and atoms yeah subatomic particles
1:08:25and when you get into the weirder stuff and we give it order right i
1:08:25and when you get into the weirder stuff and we give it order right i
1:08:25and when you get into the weirder stuff and we give it order right i
1:08:25and when you get into the weirder stuff and we give it order right i
1:08:25and when you get into the weirder stuff and we give it order right i
1:08:29know which i you know it's just a mind -blowing idea well it it's a
1:08:29know which i you know it's just a mind -blowing idea well it it's a
1:08:29know which i you know it's just a mind -blowing idea well it it's a
1:08:29know which i you know it's just a mind -blowing idea well it it's a
1:08:29know which i you know it's just a mind -blowing idea well it it's a
1:08:33it really is a game changer Because if you think about it that way, you
1:08:33it really is a game changer Because if you think about it that way, you
1:08:33it really is a game changer Because if you think about it that way, you
1:08:33it really is a game changer Because if you think about it that way, you
1:08:33it really is a game changer Because if you think about it that way, you
1:08:36go, okay, well, what is all this solid stuff?
1:08:36go, okay, well, what is all this solid stuff?
1:08:36go, okay, well, what is all this solid stuff?
1:08:36go, okay, well, what is all this solid stuff?
1:08:36go, okay, well, what is all this solid stuff?
1:08:39Yeah. What is this? Like, does this even really exist, or does it only exist
1:08:39Yeah. What is this? Like, does this even really exist, or does it only exist
1:08:39Yeah. What is this? Like, does this even really exist, or does it only exist
1:08:39Yeah. What is this? Like, does this even really exist, or does it only exist
1:08:39Yeah. What is this? Like, does this even really exist, or does it only exist
1:08:44when you - Well, this table, there's a famous, Arthur Eddington was a physicist early
1:08:44when you - Well, this table, there's a famous, Arthur Eddington was a physicist early
1:08:44when you - Well, this table, there's a famous, Arthur Eddington was a physicist early
1:08:44when you - Well, this table, there's a famous, Arthur Eddington was a physicist early
1:08:44when you - Well, this table, there's a famous, Arthur Eddington was a physicist early
1:08:48in the 20th century, and he said, the real table is mostly space, and only
1:08:48in the 20th century, and he said, the real table is mostly space, and only
1:08:48in the 20th century, and he said, the real table is mostly space, and only
1:08:48in the 20th century, and he said, the real table is mostly space, and only
1:08:48in the 20th century, and he said, the real table is mostly space, and only
1:08:55in our consciousness and at our scale, is it solid?
1:08:55in our consciousness and at our scale, is it solid?
1:08:55in our consciousness and at our scale, is it solid?
1:08:55in our consciousness and at our scale, is it solid?
1:08:55in our consciousness and at our scale, is it solid?
1:09:01But at this scale of particle physics, which is equally legitimate scale, it's just wide
1:09:01But at this scale of particle physics, which is equally legitimate scale, it's just wide
1:09:01But at this scale of particle physics, which is equally legitimate scale, it's just wide
1:09:01But at this scale of particle physics, which is equally legitimate scale, it's just wide
1:09:01But at this scale of particle physics, which is equally legitimate scale, it's just wide
1:09:07open space with these waves and particles, but a lot of emptiness.
1:09:07open space with these waves and particles, but a lot of emptiness.
1:09:07open space with these waves and particles, but a lot of emptiness.
1:09:07open space with these waves and particles, but a lot of emptiness.
1:09:07open space with these waves and particles, but a lot of emptiness.
1:09:14That was kind of mind -blowing, too.
1:09:14That was kind of mind -blowing, too.
1:09:14That was kind of mind -blowing, too.
1:09:14That was kind of mind -blowing, too.
1:09:14That was kind of mind -blowing, too.
1:09:16But it's just such an abstract concept for a person in their car right now
1:09:16But it's just such an abstract concept for a person in their car right now
1:09:16But it's just such an abstract concept for a person in their car right now
1:09:16But it's just such an abstract concept for a person in their car right now
1:09:16But it's just such an abstract concept for a person in their car right now
1:09:21listening on the way to work.
1:09:21listening on the way to work.
1:09:21listening on the way to work.
1:09:21listening on the way to work.
1:09:21listening on the way to work.
1:09:22Like, what the fuck are you talking about?
1:09:22Like, what the fuck are you talking about?
1:09:22Like, what the fuck are you talking about?
1:09:22Like, what the fuck are you talking about?
1:09:22Like, what the fuck are you talking about?
1:09:23Maybe they want to pull over.
1:09:23Maybe they want to pull over.
1:09:23Maybe they want to pull over.
1:09:23Maybe they want to pull over.
1:09:23Maybe they want to pull over.
1:09:24All this stuff is real.
1:09:24All this stuff is real.
1:09:24All this stuff is real.
1:09:24All this stuff is real.
1:09:24All this stuff is real.
1:09:26It is, sort of, but only if you're conscious.
1:09:26It is, sort of, but only if you're conscious.
1:09:26It is, sort of, but only if you're conscious.
1:09:26It is, sort of, but only if you're conscious.
1:09:26It is, sort of, but only if you're conscious.
1:09:31Well, you could think of consciousness as the way the universe - Experiences itself.
1:09:31Well, you could think of consciousness as the way the universe - Experiences itself.
1:09:31Well, you could think of consciousness as the way the universe - Experiences itself.
1:09:31Well, you could think of consciousness as the way the universe - Experiences itself.
1:09:31Well, you could think of consciousness as the way the universe - Experiences itself.
1:09:36Yeah. Well, that's what really weird, like, what if the universe is consciousness?
1:09:36Yeah. Well, that's what really weird, like, what if the universe is consciousness?
1:09:36Yeah. Well, that's what really weird, like, what if the universe is consciousness?
1:09:36Yeah. Well, that's what really weird, like, what if the universe is consciousness?
1:09:36Yeah. Well, that's what really weird, like, what if the universe is consciousness?
1:09:41Yeah. I mean, that's another way to look at it.
1:09:41Yeah. I mean, that's another way to look at it.
1:09:41Yeah. I mean, that's another way to look at it.
1:09:41Yeah. I mean, that's another way to look at it.
1:09:41Yeah. I mean, that's another way to look at it.
1:09:43Maybe consciousness is part of the universe, but it's not giving it the order that
1:09:43Maybe consciousness is part of the universe, but it's not giving it the order that
1:09:43Maybe consciousness is part of the universe, but it's not giving it the order that
1:09:43Maybe consciousness is part of the universe, but it's not giving it the order that
1:09:43Maybe consciousness is part of the universe, but it's not giving it the order that
1:09:48we give it. We see it a certain spectrum of light.
1:09:48we give it. We see it a certain spectrum of light.
1:09:48we give it. We see it a certain spectrum of light.
1:09:48we give it. We see it a certain spectrum of light.
1:09:48we give it. We see it a certain spectrum of light.
1:09:52There's bees see it another spectrum of light.
1:09:52There's bees see it another spectrum of light.
1:09:52There's bees see it another spectrum of light.
1:09:52There's bees see it another spectrum of light.
1:09:52There's bees see it another spectrum of light.
1:09:55The world we behold, the world that appears to us, is the world that our
1:09:55The world we behold, the world that appears to us, is the world that our
1:09:55The world we behold, the world that appears to us, is the world that our
1:09:55The world we behold, the world that appears to us, is the world that our
1:09:55The world we behold, the world that appears to us, is the world that our
1:10:01senses allow us to see.
1:10:01senses allow us to see.
1:10:01senses allow us to see.
1:10:01senses allow us to see.
1:10:01senses allow us to see.
1:10:03When I was doing this research on plant intelligence, they have 20 senses.
1:10:03When I was doing this research on plant intelligence, they have 20 senses.
1:10:03When I was doing this research on plant intelligence, they have 20 senses.
1:10:03When I was doing this research on plant intelligence, they have 20 senses.
1:10:03When I was doing this research on plant intelligence, they have 20 senses.
1:10:06We only have five. They're picking up magnetic fields.
1:10:06We only have five. They're picking up magnetic fields.
1:10:06We only have five. They're picking up magnetic fields.
1:10:06We only have five. They're picking up magnetic fields.
1:10:06We only have five. They're picking up magnetic fields.
1:10:10They're picking up pH. They're picking up nitrogen levels.
1:10:10They're picking up pH. They're picking up nitrogen levels.
1:10:10They're picking up pH. They're picking up nitrogen levels.
1:10:10They're picking up pH. They're picking up nitrogen levels.
1:10:10They're picking up pH. They're picking up nitrogen levels.
1:10:14You know, they have all these - How do we know all this?
1:10:14You know, they have all these - How do we know all this?
1:10:14You know, they have all these - How do we know all this?
1:10:14You know, they have all these - How do we know all this?
1:10:14You know, they have all these - How do we know all this?
1:10:17There are researchers working on it.
1:10:17There are researchers working on it.
1:10:17There are researchers working on it.
1:10:17There are researchers working on it.
1:10:17There are researchers working on it.
1:10:18There's a group of botanists who call themselves plant neurobiologists, knowing full well there are
1:10:18There's a group of botanists who call themselves plant neurobiologists, knowing full well there are
1:10:18There's a group of botanists who call themselves plant neurobiologists, knowing full well there are
1:10:18There's a group of botanists who call themselves plant neurobiologists, knowing full well there are
1:10:18There's a group of botanists who call themselves plant neurobiologists, knowing full well there are
1:10:24no neurons in plants. They're kind of trolling more conventional botanists.
1:10:24no neurons in plants. They're kind of trolling more conventional botanists.
1:10:24no neurons in plants. They're kind of trolling more conventional botanists.
1:10:24no neurons in plants. They're kind of trolling more conventional botanists.
1:10:24no neurons in plants. They're kind of trolling more conventional botanists.
1:10:28And they're doing these cool experiments with plants.
1:10:28And they're doing these cool experiments with plants.
1:10:28And they're doing these cool experiments with plants.
1:10:28And they're doing these cool experiments with plants.
1:10:28And they're doing these cool experiments with plants.
1:10:32A couple examples of some of these amazing things plants can do.
1:10:32A couple examples of some of these amazing things plants can do.
1:10:32A couple examples of some of these amazing things plants can do.
1:10:32A couple examples of some of these amazing things plants can do.
1:10:32A couple examples of some of these amazing things plants can do.
1:10:37They can hear. So if you play a recording of a caterpillar munching on leaves,
1:10:37They can hear. So if you play a recording of a caterpillar munching on leaves,
1:10:37They can hear. So if you play a recording of a caterpillar munching on leaves,
1:10:37They can hear. So if you play a recording of a caterpillar munching on leaves,
1:10:37They can hear. So if you play a recording of a caterpillar munching on leaves,
1:10:44they'll react and they'll send chemicals into their leaves to make them taste bad or
1:10:44they'll react and they'll send chemicals into their leaves to make them taste bad or
1:10:44they'll react and they'll send chemicals into their leaves to make them taste bad or
1:10:44they'll react and they'll send chemicals into their leaves to make them taste bad or
1:10:44they'll react and they'll send chemicals into their leaves to make them taste bad or
1:10:49be toxic. They can see.
1:10:49be toxic. They can see.
1:10:49be toxic. They can see.
1:10:49be toxic. They can see.
1:10:49be toxic. They can see.
1:10:51There are vines that change the shape of their leaves depending on the plant they're
1:10:51There are vines that change the shape of their leaves depending on the plant they're
1:10:51There are vines that change the shape of their leaves depending on the plant they're
1:10:51There are vines that change the shape of their leaves depending on the plant they're
1:10:51There are vines that change the shape of their leaves depending on the plant they're
1:10:59twining up in order to be hidden.
1:10:59twining up in order to be hidden.
1:10:59twining up in order to be hidden.
1:10:59twining up in order to be hidden.
1:10:59twining up in order to be hidden.
1:11:02How do they see the shape to imitate it?
1:11:02How do they see the shape to imitate it?
1:11:02How do they see the shape to imitate it?
1:11:02How do they see the shape to imitate it?
1:11:02How do they see the shape to imitate it?
1:11:04We don't know. Plants will go toward a pipe with water in it because they
1:11:04We don't know. Plants will go toward a pipe with water in it because they
1:11:04We don't know. Plants will go toward a pipe with water in it because they
1:11:04We don't know. Plants will go toward a pipe with water in it because they
1:11:04We don't know. Plants will go toward a pipe with water in it because they
1:11:12can hear the water, even though it's totally dry.
1:11:12can hear the water, even though it's totally dry.
1:11:12can hear the water, even though it's totally dry.
1:11:12can hear the water, even though it's totally dry.
1:11:12can hear the water, even though it's totally dry.
1:11:16And they'll send their roots down to it.
1:11:16And they'll send their roots down to it.
1:11:16And they'll send their roots down to it.
1:11:16And they'll send their roots down to it.
1:11:16And they'll send their roots down to it.
1:11:19They can hear the water?
1:11:19They can hear the water?
1:11:19They can hear the water?
1:11:19They can hear the water?
1:11:19They can hear the water?
1:11:21They can hear. Yeah. This plant neurobiologist showed me a couple of videos he'd made.
1:11:21They can hear. Yeah. This plant neurobiologist showed me a couple of videos he'd made.
1:11:21They can hear. Yeah. This plant neurobiologist showed me a couple of videos he'd made.
1:11:21They can hear. Yeah. This plant neurobiologist showed me a couple of videos he'd made.
1:11:21They can hear. Yeah. This plant neurobiologist showed me a couple of videos he'd made.
1:11:29I actually just posted them on my website.
1:11:29I actually just posted them on my website.
1:11:29I actually just posted them on my website.
1:11:29I actually just posted them on my website.
1:11:29I actually just posted them on my website.
1:11:32He showed that a corn plant's roots can navigate a maze to get to fertilizer.
1:11:32He showed that a corn plant's roots can navigate a maze to get to fertilizer.
1:11:32He showed that a corn plant's roots can navigate a maze to get to fertilizer.
1:11:32He showed that a corn plant's roots can navigate a maze to get to fertilizer.
1:11:32He showed that a corn plant's roots can navigate a maze to get to fertilizer.
1:11:39So you put a little fertilizer in a corner and the root will find the
1:11:39So you put a little fertilizer in a corner and the root will find the
1:11:39So you put a little fertilizer in a corner and the root will find the
1:11:39So you put a little fertilizer in a corner and the root will find the
1:11:39So you put a little fertilizer in a corner and the root will find the
1:11:44most direct root to the nitrogen.
1:11:44most direct root to the nitrogen.
1:11:44most direct root to the nitrogen.
1:11:44most direct root to the nitrogen.
1:11:44most direct root to the nitrogen.
1:11:47When you want your spring break to feel like and your kid's pool day to
1:11:47When you want your spring break to feel like and your kid's pool day to
1:11:47When you want your spring break to feel like and your kid's pool day to
1:11:47When you want your spring break to feel like and your kid's pool day to
1:11:47When you want your spring break to feel like and your kid's pool day to
1:11:53feel like and your hotel bed to feel like and room service to feel like
1:11:53feel like and your hotel bed to feel like and room service to feel like
1:11:53feel like and your hotel bed to feel like and room service to feel like
1:11:53feel like and your hotel bed to feel like and room service to feel like
1:11:53feel like and your hotel bed to feel like and room service to feel like
1:12:03because at Hilton, hospitality feels like Your cabana's ready.
1:12:03because at Hilton, hospitality feels like Your cabana's ready.
1:12:03because at Hilton, hospitality feels like Your cabana's ready.
1:12:03because at Hilton, hospitality feels like Your cabana's ready.
1:12:03because at Hilton, hospitality feels like Your cabana's ready.
1:12:07Would you like fresh towels?
1:12:07Would you like fresh towels?
1:12:07Would you like fresh towels?
1:12:07Would you like fresh towels?
1:12:07Would you like fresh towels?
1:12:07It matters where you stay.
1:12:07It matters where you stay.
1:12:07It matters where you stay.
1:12:07It matters where you stay.
1:12:07It matters where you stay.
1:12:11Book now at Hilton .com.
1:12:11Book now at Hilton .com.
1:12:11Book now at Hilton .com.
1:12:11Book now at Hilton .com.
1:12:11Book now at Hilton .com.
1:12:14Hilton, for this day. There was a plumbing problem that I had in my house
1:12:14Hilton, for this day. There was a plumbing problem that I had in my house
1:12:14Hilton, for this day. There was a plumbing problem that I had in my house
1:12:14Hilton, for this day. There was a plumbing problem that I had in my house
1:12:14Hilton, for this day. There was a plumbing problem that I had in my house
1:12:20in California. And the plumber couldn't figure out what was wrong.
1:12:20in California. And the plumber couldn't figure out what was wrong.
1:12:20in California. And the plumber couldn't figure out what was wrong.
1:12:20in California. And the plumber couldn't figure out what was wrong.
1:12:20in California. And the plumber couldn't figure out what was wrong.
1:12:25It was like the pipes were stuck.
1:12:25It was like the pipes were stuck.
1:12:25It was like the pipes were stuck.
1:12:25It was like the pipes were stuck.
1:12:25It was like the pipes were stuck.
1:12:27And what had happened was in the backyard, one of the trees, the roots, had
1:12:27And what had happened was in the backyard, one of the trees, the roots, had
1:12:27And what had happened was in the backyard, one of the trees, the roots, had
1:12:27And what had happened was in the backyard, one of the trees, the roots, had
1:12:27And what had happened was in the backyard, one of the trees, the roots, had
1:12:34gotten into the pipe and formed like this tree.
1:12:34gotten into the pipe and formed like this tree.
1:12:34gotten into the pipe and formed like this tree.
1:12:34gotten into the pipe and formed like this tree.
1:12:34gotten into the pipe and formed like this tree.
1:12:39I mean, it was huge.
1:12:39I mean, it was huge.
1:12:39I mean, it was huge.
1:12:39I mean, it was huge.
1:12:39I mean, it was huge.
1:12:40It looked like when I pulled it, I put it up on my Instagram.
1:12:40It looked like when I pulled it, I put it up on my Instagram.
1:12:40It looked like when I pulled it, I put it up on my Instagram.
1:12:40It looked like when I pulled it, I put it up on my Instagram.
1:12:40It looked like when I pulled it, I put it up on my Instagram.
1:12:43See if you can find it.
1:12:43See if you can find it.
1:12:43See if you can find it.
1:12:43See if you can find it.
1:12:43See if you can find it.
1:12:43It looked like a muskrat.
1:12:43It looked like a muskrat.
1:12:43It looked like a muskrat.
1:12:43It looked like a muskrat.
1:12:43It looked like a muskrat.
1:12:46I mean, it was like dense with roots and it was thick.
1:12:46I mean, it was like dense with roots and it was thick.
1:12:46I mean, it was like dense with roots and it was thick.
1:12:46I mean, it was like dense with roots and it was thick.
1:12:46I mean, it was like dense with roots and it was thick.
1:12:51It was like three feet long.
1:12:51It was like three feet long.
1:12:51It was like three feet long.
1:12:51It was like three feet long.
1:12:51It was like three feet long.
1:12:53It was crazy. That's it.
1:12:53It was crazy. That's it.
1:12:53It was crazy. That's it.
1:12:53It was crazy. That's it.
1:12:53It was crazy. That's it.
1:12:55That was in my pipe.
1:12:55That was in my pipe.
1:12:55That was in my pipe.
1:12:55That was in my pipe.
1:12:55That was in my pipe.
1:12:56Oh my God. Isn't that crazy?
1:12:56Oh my God. Isn't that crazy?
1:12:56Oh my God. Isn't that crazy?
1:12:56Oh my God. Isn't that crazy?
1:12:56Oh my God. Isn't that crazy?
1:12:58Yeah. What kind of tree was it?
1:12:58Yeah. What kind of tree was it?
1:12:58Yeah. What kind of tree was it?
1:12:58Yeah. What kind of tree was it?
1:12:58Yeah. What kind of tree was it?
1:13:01I don't know. I think it was an oak tree because there was oak trees,
1:13:01I don't know. I think it was an oak tree because there was oak trees,
1:13:01I don't know. I think it was an oak tree because there was oak trees,
1:13:01I don't know. I think it was an oak tree because there was oak trees,
1:13:01I don't know. I think it was an oak tree because there was oak trees,
1:13:05excuse me, in the backyard where they dug up.
1:13:05excuse me, in the backyard where they dug up.
1:13:05excuse me, in the backyard where they dug up.
1:13:05excuse me, in the backyard where they dug up.
1:13:05excuse me, in the backyard where they dug up.
1:13:07That's wild. But look how thick it is.
1:13:07That's wild. But look how thick it is.
1:13:07That's wild. But look how thick it is.
1:13:07That's wild. But look how thick it is.
1:13:07That's wild. But look how thick it is.
1:13:08Yeah. It's crazy. And it went through a tiny little crack.
1:13:08Yeah. It's crazy. And it went through a tiny little crack.
1:13:08Yeah. It's crazy. And it went through a tiny little crack.
1:13:08Yeah. It's crazy. And it went through a tiny little crack.
1:13:08Yeah. It's crazy. And it went through a tiny little crack.
1:13:12Yeah. I mean, it probably forced the crack open and then went in there and
1:13:12Yeah. I mean, it probably forced the crack open and then went in there and
1:13:12Yeah. I mean, it probably forced the crack open and then went in there and
1:13:12Yeah. I mean, it probably forced the crack open and then went in there and
1:13:12Yeah. I mean, it probably forced the crack open and then went in there and
1:13:17just really grew out. Yeah.
1:13:17just really grew out. Yeah.
1:13:17just really grew out. Yeah.
1:13:17just really grew out. Yeah.
1:13:17just really grew out. Yeah.
1:13:20Well, it had a source of water.
1:13:20Well, it had a source of water.
1:13:20Well, it had a source of water.
1:13:20Well, it had a source of water.
1:13:20Well, it had a source of water.
1:13:21Yeah. But it's just kind of bananas that somehow or another it figured out that
1:13:21Yeah. But it's just kind of bananas that somehow or another it figured out that
1:13:21Yeah. But it's just kind of bananas that somehow or another it figured out that
1:13:21Yeah. But it's just kind of bananas that somehow or another it figured out that
1:13:21Yeah. But it's just kind of bananas that somehow or another it figured out that
1:13:25it was water in that pipe.
1:13:25it was water in that pipe.
1:13:25it was water in that pipe.
1:13:25it was water in that pipe.
1:13:25it was water in that pipe.
1:13:26You know, we underestimate plants basically because we can't see their behaviors.
1:13:26You know, we underestimate plants basically because we can't see their behaviors.
1:13:26You know, we underestimate plants basically because we can't see their behaviors.
1:13:26You know, we underestimate plants basically because we can't see their behaviors.
1:13:26You know, we underestimate plants basically because we can't see their behaviors.
1:13:31And going to that point about scale, they operate at a time scale that seems
1:13:31And going to that point about scale, they operate at a time scale that seems
1:13:31And going to that point about scale, they operate at a time scale that seems
1:13:31And going to that point about scale, they operate at a time scale that seems
1:13:31And going to that point about scale, they operate at a time scale that seems
1:13:36very slow to us. So we don't notice.
1:13:36very slow to us. So we don't notice.
1:13:36very slow to us. So we don't notice.
1:13:36very slow to us. So we don't notice.
1:13:36very slow to us. So we don't notice.
1:13:39But if you use time -lapse photography, you see what they're up to.
1:13:39But if you use time -lapse photography, you see what they're up to.
1:13:39But if you use time -lapse photography, you see what they're up to.
1:13:39But if you use time -lapse photography, you see what they're up to.
1:13:39But if you use time -lapse photography, you see what they're up to.
1:13:42And it's pretty amazing. Another interesting video that this guy showed me, his name is
1:13:42And it's pretty amazing. Another interesting video that this guy showed me, his name is
1:13:42And it's pretty amazing. Another interesting video that this guy showed me, his name is
1:13:42And it's pretty amazing. Another interesting video that this guy showed me, his name is
1:13:42And it's pretty amazing. Another interesting video that this guy showed me, his name is
1:13:47Stefano Mancuso. He's an Italian scientist, botanist, is how bean plants find a pole to
1:13:47Stefano Mancuso. He's an Italian scientist, botanist, is how bean plants find a pole to
1:13:47Stefano Mancuso. He's an Italian scientist, botanist, is how bean plants find a pole to
1:13:47Stefano Mancuso. He's an Italian scientist, botanist, is how bean plants find a pole to
1:13:47Stefano Mancuso. He's an Italian scientist, botanist, is how bean plants find a pole to
1:13:55grow up. And so he grows these beans and he has a metal pole on
1:13:55grow up. And so he grows these beans and he has a metal pole on
1:13:55grow up. And so he grows these beans and he has a metal pole on
1:13:55grow up. And so he grows these beans and he has a metal pole on
1:13:55grow up. And so he grows these beans and he has a metal pole on
1:13:58a dolly. And, you know, I always assume they made this pattern.
1:13:58a dolly. And, you know, I always assume they made this pattern.
1:13:58a dolly. And, you know, I always assume they made this pattern.
1:13:58a dolly. And, you know, I always assume they made this pattern.
1:13:58a dolly. And, you know, I always assume they made this pattern.
1:14:03Darwin called it circumnutation. You know, they go through the spiral.
1:14:03Darwin called it circumnutation. You know, they go through the spiral.
1:14:03Darwin called it circumnutation. You know, they go through the spiral.
1:14:03Darwin called it circumnutation. You know, they go through the spiral.
1:14:03Darwin called it circumnutation. You know, they go through the spiral.
1:14:07And I always assume they just kind of did this till they hit something.
1:14:07And I always assume they just kind of did this till they hit something.
1:14:07And I always assume they just kind of did this till they hit something.
1:14:07And I always assume they just kind of did this till they hit something.
1:14:07And I always assume they just kind of did this till they hit something.
1:14:10No, they know where the pole is.
1:14:10No, they know where the pole is.
1:14:10No, they know where the pole is.
1:14:10No, they know where the pole is.
1:14:10No, they know where the pole is.
1:14:13And you watch this thing and it's going in circles, but it's reaching and reaching.
1:14:13And you watch this thing and it's going in circles, but it's reaching and reaching.
1:14:13And you watch this thing and it's going in circles, but it's reaching and reaching.
1:14:13And you watch this thing and it's going in circles, but it's reaching and reaching.
1:14:13And you watch this thing and it's going in circles, but it's reaching and reaching.
1:14:19It looks like a fly fisherman, you know, casting.
1:14:19It looks like a fly fisherman, you know, casting.
1:14:19It looks like a fly fisherman, you know, casting.
1:14:19It looks like a fly fisherman, you know, casting.
1:14:19It looks like a fly fisherman, you know, casting.
1:14:22And it finally gets to the pole.
1:14:22And it finally gets to the pole.
1:14:22And it finally gets to the pole.
1:14:22And it finally gets to the pole.
1:14:22And it finally gets to the pole.
1:14:25And so how does it know where the pole is in space?
1:14:25And so how does it know where the pole is in space?
1:14:25And so how does it know where the pole is in space?
1:14:25And so how does it know where the pole is in space?
1:14:25And so how does it know where the pole is in space?
1:14:29Well, one theory is that every time the cells divide, there's a little sound that's
1:14:29Well, one theory is that every time the cells divide, there's a little sound that's
1:14:29Well, one theory is that every time the cells divide, there's a little sound that's
1:14:29Well, one theory is that every time the cells divide, there's a little sound that's
1:14:29Well, one theory is that every time the cells divide, there's a little sound that's
1:14:35produced and that maybe they're using echolocation like a bat, kind of bouncing it off
1:14:35produced and that maybe they're using echolocation like a bat, kind of bouncing it off
1:14:35produced and that maybe they're using echolocation like a bat, kind of bouncing it off
1:14:35produced and that maybe they're using echolocation like a bat, kind of bouncing it off
1:14:35produced and that maybe they're using echolocation like a bat, kind of bouncing it off
1:14:41of the pole. And that's how they know where they are in space.
1:14:41of the pole. And that's how they know where they are in space.
1:14:41of the pole. And that's how they know where they are in space.
1:14:41of the pole. And that's how they know where they are in space.
1:14:41of the pole. And that's how they know where they are in space.
1:14:44We still don't understand. I know, some amazing things.
1:14:44We still don't understand. I know, some amazing things.
1:14:44We still don't understand. I know, some amazing things.
1:14:44We still don't understand. I know, some amazing things.
1:14:44We still don't understand. I know, some amazing things.
1:14:48I know, some amazing things.
1:14:48I know, some amazing things.
1:14:48I know, some amazing things.
1:14:48I know, some amazing things.
1:14:48I know, some amazing things.
1:14:49Also, you can teach a plant a certain behavior, and it will remember for 28
1:14:49Also, you can teach a plant a certain behavior, and it will remember for 28
1:14:49Also, you can teach a plant a certain behavior, and it will remember for 28
1:14:49Also, you can teach a plant a certain behavior, and it will remember for 28
1:14:49Also, you can teach a plant a certain behavior, and it will remember for 28
1:14:56days. So they do this thing with sensitive plants.
1:14:56days. So they do this thing with sensitive plants.
1:14:56days. So they do this thing with sensitive plants.
1:14:56days. So they do this thing with sensitive plants.
1:14:56days. So they do this thing with sensitive plants.
1:15:01You may have seen them in Hawaii, actually.
1:15:01You may have seen them in Hawaii, actually.
1:15:01You may have seen them in Hawaii, actually.
1:15:01You may have seen them in Hawaii, actually.
1:15:01You may have seen them in Hawaii, actually.
1:15:03It's a tropical plant. When you touch it, the leaves collapse to keep from being
1:15:03It's a tropical plant. When you touch it, the leaves collapse to keep from being
1:15:03It's a tropical plant. When you touch it, the leaves collapse to keep from being
1:15:03It's a tropical plant. When you touch it, the leaves collapse to keep from being
1:15:03It's a tropical plant. When you touch it, the leaves collapse to keep from being
1:15:06eaten. It's called mimosa pudica.
1:15:06eaten. It's called mimosa pudica.
1:15:06eaten. It's called mimosa pudica.
1:15:06eaten. It's called mimosa pudica.
1:15:06eaten. It's called mimosa pudica.
1:15:11And normally, if you shake it, it will also do this.
1:15:11And normally, if you shake it, it will also do this.
1:15:11And normally, if you shake it, it will also do this.
1:15:11And normally, if you shake it, it will also do this.
1:15:11And normally, if you shake it, it will also do this.
1:15:14And if you shake it repeatedly, it learns to ignore that stimulus, and it will
1:15:14And if you shake it repeatedly, it learns to ignore that stimulus, and it will
1:15:14And if you shake it repeatedly, it learns to ignore that stimulus, and it will
1:15:14And if you shake it repeatedly, it learns to ignore that stimulus, and it will
1:15:14And if you shake it repeatedly, it learns to ignore that stimulus, and it will
1:15:21remember 28 days, and it won't react when you do it.
1:15:21remember 28 days, and it won't react when you do it.
1:15:21remember 28 days, and it won't react when you do it.
1:15:21remember 28 days, and it won't react when you do it.
1:15:21remember 28 days, and it won't react when you do it.
1:15:24To give you some comparison, fruit flies can only remember stuff for 24 hours, and
1:15:24To give you some comparison, fruit flies can only remember stuff for 24 hours, and
1:15:24To give you some comparison, fruit flies can only remember stuff for 24 hours, and
1:15:24To give you some comparison, fruit flies can only remember stuff for 24 hours, and
1:15:24To give you some comparison, fruit flies can only remember stuff for 24 hours, and
1:15:32then they start over again.
1:15:32then they start over again.
1:15:32then they start over again.
1:15:32then they start over again.
1:15:32then they start over again.
1:15:34So another fact about plants.
1:15:34So another fact about plants.
1:15:34So another fact about plants.
1:15:34So another fact about plants.
1:15:34So another fact about plants.
1:15:36I got really deep into this because I was trying to see.
1:15:36I got really deep into this because I was trying to see.
1:15:36I got really deep into this because I was trying to see.
1:15:36I got really deep into this because I was trying to see.
1:15:36I got really deep into this because I was trying to see.
1:15:39These guys say plants are conscious.
1:15:39These guys say plants are conscious.
1:15:39These guys say plants are conscious.
1:15:39These guys say plants are conscious.
1:15:39These guys say plants are conscious.
1:15:42They have some kind of basic form of consciousness.
1:15:42They have some kind of basic form of consciousness.
1:15:42They have some kind of basic form of consciousness.
1:15:42They have some kind of basic form of consciousness.
1:15:42They have some kind of basic form of consciousness.
1:15:48Here's another one. The anesthetics that we use to put us out for surgery put
1:15:48Here's another one. The anesthetics that we use to put us out for surgery put
1:15:48Here's another one. The anesthetics that we use to put us out for surgery put
1:15:48Here's another one. The anesthetics that we use to put us out for surgery put
1:15:48Here's another one. The anesthetics that we use to put us out for surgery put
1:15:55plants out. So a Venus flytrap, if you give it an anesthetic, will not react
1:15:55plants out. So a Venus flytrap, if you give it an anesthetic, will not react
1:15:55plants out. So a Venus flytrap, if you give it an anesthetic, will not react
1:15:55plants out. So a Venus flytrap, if you give it an anesthetic, will not react
1:15:55plants out. So a Venus flytrap, if you give it an anesthetic, will not react
1:16:02when the bug comes across it.
1:16:02when the bug comes across it.
1:16:02when the bug comes across it.
1:16:02when the bug comes across it.
1:16:02when the bug comes across it.
1:16:05Now, that is really interesting because it suggests they have two modes of being, right?
1:16:05Now, that is really interesting because it suggests they have two modes of being, right?
1:16:05Now, that is really interesting because it suggests they have two modes of being, right?
1:16:05Now, that is really interesting because it suggests they have two modes of being, right?
1:16:05Now, that is really interesting because it suggests they have two modes of being, right?
1:16:10Sort of like unconscious and conscious or aware.
1:16:10Sort of like unconscious and conscious or aware.
1:16:10Sort of like unconscious and conscious or aware.
1:16:10Sort of like unconscious and conscious or aware.
1:16:16So Stefano believes that they're conscious.
1:16:16So Stefano believes that they're conscious.
1:16:16So Stefano believes that they're conscious.
1:16:16So Stefano believes that they're conscious.
1:16:19Now, this raises interesting ethical issues, right?
1:16:19Now, this raises interesting ethical issues, right?
1:16:19Now, this raises interesting ethical issues, right?
1:16:19Now, this raises interesting ethical issues, right?
1:16:22If plants are conscious, do they feel pain?
1:16:22If plants are conscious, do they feel pain?
1:16:22If plants are conscious, do they feel pain?
1:16:22If plants are conscious, do they feel pain?
1:16:27And that – I was really a little worried about that.
1:16:27And that – I was really a little worried about that.
1:16:27And that – I was really a little worried about that.
1:16:27And that – I was really a little worried about that.
1:16:30You know, what if that beautiful smell of a freshly mown lawn is actually the
1:16:30You know, what if that beautiful smell of a freshly mown lawn is actually the
1:16:30You know, what if that beautiful smell of a freshly mown lawn is actually the
1:16:30You know, what if that beautiful smell of a freshly mown lawn is actually the
1:16:38chemical equivalent of a scream?
1:16:38chemical equivalent of a scream?
1:16:38chemical equivalent of a scream?
1:16:38chemical equivalent of a scream?
1:16:41Yeah. But Stefano said he doesn't think they feel pain.
1:16:41Yeah. But Stefano said he doesn't think they feel pain.
1:16:41Yeah. But Stefano said he doesn't think they feel pain.
1:16:41Yeah. But Stefano said he doesn't think they feel pain.
1:16:46Why does he think that?
1:16:46Why does he think that?
1:16:46Why does he think that?
1:16:46Why does he think that?
1:16:47He said that pain would not be adaptive for a creature that can't run away.
1:16:47He said that pain would not be adaptive for a creature that can't run away.
1:16:47He said that pain would not be adaptive for a creature that can't run away.
1:16:47He said that pain would not be adaptive for a creature that can't run away.
1:16:52Well, if that's the case, then why do they produce chemicals to make themselves taste
1:16:52Well, if that's the case, then why do they produce chemicals to make themselves taste
1:16:52Well, if that's the case, then why do they produce chemicals to make themselves taste
1:16:52Well, if that's the case, then why do they produce chemicals to make themselves taste
1:16:55worse? They know what's going on.
1:16:55worse? They know what's going on.
1:16:55worse? They know what's going on.
1:16:55worse? They know what's going on.
1:16:58They're aware that they're being eaten but that it doesn't register to them as pain.
1:16:58They're aware that they're being eaten but that it doesn't register to them as pain.
1:16:58They're aware that they're being eaten but that it doesn't register to them as pain.
1:16:58They're aware that they're being eaten but that it doesn't register to them as pain.
1:17:04I don't know how he knows this.
1:17:04I don't know how he knows this.
1:17:04I don't know how he knows this.
1:17:04I don't know how he knows this.
1:17:05But if he's wrong, then, you know, and we care about that, what's left to
1:17:05But if he's wrong, then, you know, and we care about that, what's left to
1:17:05But if he's wrong, then, you know, and we care about that, what's left to
1:17:05But if he's wrong, then, you know, and we care about that, what's left to
1:17:13eat? Salt. Well, I think you have to make the assumption that life eats life.
1:17:13eat? Salt. Well, I think you have to make the assumption that life eats life.
1:17:13eat? Salt. Well, I think you have to make the assumption that life eats life.
1:17:13eat? Salt. Well, I think you have to make the assumption that life eats life.
1:17:19Yeah. And another scientist that I interviewed about this who does think plants feel pain
1:17:19Yeah. And another scientist that I interviewed about this who does think plants feel pain
1:17:19Yeah. And another scientist that I interviewed about this who does think plants feel pain
1:17:19Yeah. And another scientist that I interviewed about this who does think plants feel pain
1:17:27says, look, it's just a fact of life.
1:17:27says, look, it's just a fact of life.
1:17:27says, look, it's just a fact of life.
1:17:27says, look, it's just a fact of life.
1:17:28We have to eat other species.
1:17:28We have to eat other species.
1:17:28We have to eat other species.
1:17:28We have to eat other species.
1:17:30And he was kind of, you know, gruff about that.
1:17:30And he was kind of, you know, gruff about that.
1:17:30And he was kind of, you know, gruff about that.
1:17:30And he was kind of, you know, gruff about that.
1:17:34But anyway, Stefano's idea is that, you know, being able to move, take your hand
1:17:34But anyway, Stefano's idea is that, you know, being able to move, take your hand
1:17:34But anyway, Stefano's idea is that, you know, being able to move, take your hand
1:17:34But anyway, Stefano's idea is that, you know, being able to move, take your hand
1:17:40off the hot stove or run away, then pain is really useful.
1:17:40off the hot stove or run away, then pain is really useful.
1:17:40off the hot stove or run away, then pain is really useful.
1:17:40off the hot stove or run away, then pain is really useful.
1:17:45It's a really important signal.
1:17:45It's a really important signal.
1:17:45It's a really important signal.
1:17:45It's a really important signal.
1:17:47But he also points out that lots of plants like to be eaten.
1:17:47But he also points out that lots of plants like to be eaten.
1:17:47But he also points out that lots of plants like to be eaten.
1:17:47But he also points out that lots of plants like to be eaten.
1:17:50I mean, you know, grasses benefit from being with a ruminant, right?
1:17:50I mean, you know, grasses benefit from being with a ruminant, right?
1:17:50I mean, you know, grasses benefit from being with a ruminant, right?
1:17:50I mean, you know, grasses benefit from being with a ruminant, right?
1:17:54And that regenerates them. They want to be eaten.
1:17:54And that regenerates them. They want to be eaten.
1:17:54And that regenerates them. They want to be eaten.
1:17:54And that regenerates them. They want to be eaten.
1:17:56And then you have all the fruits and nuts that they produce, seeds that they
1:17:56And then you have all the fruits and nuts that they produce, seeds that they
1:17:56And then you have all the fruits and nuts that they produce, seeds that they
1:17:56And then you have all the fruits and nuts that they produce, seeds that they
1:18:00produce, that they want mammals to take away and spread their seeds.
1:18:00produce, that they want mammals to take away and spread their seeds.
1:18:00produce, that they want mammals to take away and spread their seeds.
1:18:00produce, that they want mammals to take away and spread their seeds.
1:18:04So you don't have to worry about going beyond vegan.
1:18:04So you don't have to worry about going beyond vegan.
1:18:04So you don't have to worry about going beyond vegan.
1:18:04So you don't have to worry about going beyond vegan.
1:18:08No. Well, it just seems like a cycle.
1:18:08No. Well, it just seems like a cycle.
1:18:08No. Well, it just seems like a cycle.
1:18:08No. Well, it just seems like a cycle.
1:18:10It seems like a very interesting cycle that exists with all living things.
1:18:10It seems like a very interesting cycle that exists with all living things.
1:18:10It seems like a very interesting cycle that exists with all living things.
1:18:10It seems like a very interesting cycle that exists with all living things.
1:18:16And then, of course, when you die, right?
1:18:16And then, of course, when you die, right?
1:18:16And then, of course, when you die, right?
1:18:16And then, of course, when you die, right?
1:18:18You know, plants eat meat.
1:18:18You know, plants eat meat.
1:18:18You know, plants eat meat.
1:18:18You know, plants eat meat.
1:18:20Yeah. They consume. That's right.
1:18:20Yeah. They consume. That's right.
1:18:20Yeah. They consume. That's right.
1:18:20Yeah. They consume. That's right.
1:18:22They're carnivores. Yeah. That's the thing.
1:18:22They're carnivores. Yeah. That's the thing.
1:18:22They're carnivores. Yeah. That's the thing.
1:18:22They're carnivores. Yeah. That's the thing.
1:18:24They consume all the dead animals that die near them.
1:18:24They consume all the dead animals that die near them.
1:18:24They consume all the dead animals that die near them.
1:18:24They consume all the dead animals that die near them.
1:18:27Yeah. And fungi. Yeah. And fungi.
1:18:27Yeah. And fungi. Yeah. And fungi.
1:18:27Yeah. And fungi. Yeah. And fungi.
1:18:27Yeah. And fungi. Yeah. And fungi.
1:18:30Well, that's the other weird things, the mycelium that they use to communicate with.
1:18:30Well, that's the other weird things, the mycelium that they use to communicate with.
1:18:30Well, that's the other weird things, the mycelium that they use to communicate with.
1:18:30Well, that's the other weird things, the mycelium that they use to communicate with.
1:18:33Well, that's another really interesting case of intelligence in nature, right?
1:18:33Well, that's another really interesting case of intelligence in nature, right?
1:18:33Well, that's another really interesting case of intelligence in nature, right?
1:18:33Well, that's another really interesting case of intelligence in nature, right?
1:18:37I mean, you know, you've probably done shows on this.
1:18:37I mean, you know, you've probably done shows on this.
1:18:37I mean, you know, you've probably done shows on this.
1:18:37I mean, you know, you've probably done shows on this.
1:18:40But, you know, the way they use mycelium to send nutrients to their children or
1:18:40But, you know, the way they use mycelium to send nutrients to their children or
1:18:40But, you know, the way they use mycelium to send nutrients to their children or
1:18:40But, you know, the way they use mycelium to send nutrients to their children or
1:18:47share them in the forest.
1:18:47share them in the forest.
1:18:47share them in the forest.
1:18:47share them in the forest.
1:18:49Allocate resources to certain plants that need them more.
1:18:49Allocate resources to certain plants that need them more.
1:18:49Allocate resources to certain plants that need them more.
1:18:49Allocate resources to certain plants that need them more.
1:18:52Yeah. Yeah. And also communicate risk.
1:18:52Yeah. Yeah. And also communicate risk.
1:18:52Yeah. Yeah. And also communicate risk.
1:18:52Yeah. Yeah. And also communicate risk.
1:18:54I mean, that there's a threat.
1:18:54I mean, that there's a threat.
1:18:54I mean, that there's a threat.
1:18:54I mean, that there's a threat.
1:18:56Right. And so there are alarm signals that go out.
1:18:56Right. And so there are alarm signals that go out.
1:18:56Right. And so there are alarm signals that go out.
1:18:56Right. And so there are alarm signals that go out.
1:19:00You know, the overall place we're getting to with this as we look at consciousness
1:19:00You know, the overall place we're getting to with this as we look at consciousness
1:19:00You know, the overall place we're getting to with this as we look at consciousness
1:19:00You know, the overall place we're getting to with this as we look at consciousness
1:19:06and all these other species is that the world is just a lot more alive
1:19:06and all these other species is that the world is just a lot more alive
1:19:06and all these other species is that the world is just a lot more alive
1:19:06and all these other species is that the world is just a lot more alive
1:19:10than we thought. And that we've been, you know, the whole legacy of the Enlightenment
1:19:10than we thought. And that we've been, you know, the whole legacy of the Enlightenment
1:19:10than we thought. And that we've been, you know, the whole legacy of the Enlightenment
1:19:10than we thought. And that we've been, you know, the whole legacy of the Enlightenment
1:19:15and Western science has been that, like, we have some monopoly on this stuff.
1:19:15and Western science has been that, like, we have some monopoly on this stuff.
1:19:15and Western science has been that, like, we have some monopoly on this stuff.
1:19:15and Western science has been that, like, we have some monopoly on this stuff.
1:19:20Right. And everything else is more or less dead or, you know, we can use
1:19:20Right. And everything else is more or less dead or, you know, we can use
1:19:20Right. And everything else is more or less dead or, you know, we can use
1:19:20Right. And everything else is more or less dead or, you know, we can use
1:19:23it as we wish. But we're seeing – I think we're approaching, like, a Copernican
1:19:23it as we wish. But we're seeing – I think we're approaching, like, a Copernican
1:19:23it as we wish. But we're seeing – I think we're approaching, like, a Copernican
1:19:23it as we wish. But we're seeing – I think we're approaching, like, a Copernican
1:19:29moment for our species. You know, when Copernicus came along and he said, actually, the
1:19:29moment for our species. You know, when Copernicus came along and he said, actually, the
1:19:29moment for our species. You know, when Copernicus came along and he said, actually, the
1:19:29moment for our species. You know, when Copernicus came along and he said, actually, the
1:19:35earth revolves around the sun, not the other way around.
1:19:35earth revolves around the sun, not the other way around.
1:19:35earth revolves around the sun, not the other way around.
1:19:35earth revolves around the sun, not the other way around.
1:19:38It was, like, mind -blowing to people that our centrality in the universe had been
1:19:38It was, like, mind -blowing to people that our centrality in the universe had been
1:19:38It was, like, mind -blowing to people that our centrality in the universe had been
1:19:38It was, like, mind -blowing to people that our centrality in the universe had been
1:19:43– we'd been dethroned. And we were dethroned again when, you know, Darwin said we're
1:19:43– we'd been dethroned. And we were dethroned again when, you know, Darwin said we're
1:19:43– we'd been dethroned. And we were dethroned again when, you know, Darwin said we're
1:19:43– we'd been dethroned. And we were dethroned again when, you know, Darwin said we're
1:19:48produced – we're animals like all the other animals and we evolved from animals.
1:19:48produced – we're animals like all the other animals and we evolved from animals.
1:19:48produced – we're animals like all the other animals and we evolved from animals.
1:19:48produced – we're animals like all the other animals and we evolved from animals.
1:19:53That blew people's minds, too.
1:19:53That blew people's minds, too.
1:19:53That blew people's minds, too.
1:19:53That blew people's minds, too.
1:19:56I think that we're kind of democratizing consciousness, that consciousness is much more extensive than
1:19:56I think that we're kind of democratizing consciousness, that consciousness is much more extensive than
1:19:56I think that we're kind of democratizing consciousness, that consciousness is much more extensive than
1:19:56I think that we're kind of democratizing consciousness, that consciousness is much more extensive than
1:20:03we thought. And the world is more animate than we thought.
1:20:03we thought. And the world is more animate than we thought.
1:20:03we thought. And the world is more animate than we thought.
1:20:03we thought. And the world is more animate than we thought.
1:20:08And that's an old idea.
1:20:08And that's an old idea.
1:20:08And that's an old idea.
1:20:08And that's an old idea.
1:20:10You know, traditional cultures have always believed that the world is full of spirit and
1:20:10You know, traditional cultures have always believed that the world is full of spirit and
1:20:10You know, traditional cultures have always believed that the world is full of spirit and
1:20:10You know, traditional cultures have always believed that the world is full of spirit and
1:20:14that you had to respect animals and all living things.
1:20:14that you had to respect animals and all living things.
1:20:14that you had to respect animals and all living things.
1:20:14that you had to respect animals and all living things.
1:20:18And to some cultures, rocks also, you know, dead things.
1:20:18And to some cultures, rocks also, you know, dead things.
1:20:18And to some cultures, rocks also, you know, dead things.
1:20:18And to some cultures, rocks also, you know, dead things.
1:20:23So I think we're at this moment of reanimating the world right now.
1:20:23So I think we're at this moment of reanimating the world right now.
1:20:23So I think we're at this moment of reanimating the world right now.
1:20:23So I think we're at this moment of reanimating the world right now.
1:20:27And it's science that's driving it.
1:20:27And it's science that's driving it.
1:20:27And it's science that's driving it.
1:20:27And it's science that's driving it.
1:20:29And I think that's really exciting.
1:20:29And I think that's really exciting.
1:20:29And I think that's really exciting.
1:20:29And I think that's really exciting.
1:20:32It is exciting, but it's such a paradigm shift in terms of people's perceptions of
1:20:32It is exciting, but it's such a paradigm shift in terms of people's perceptions of
1:20:32It is exciting, but it's such a paradigm shift in terms of people's perceptions of
1:20:32It is exciting, but it's such a paradigm shift in terms of people's perceptions of
1:20:37the world that it's going to be difficult for, like, your average 40 -year -old
1:20:37the world that it's going to be difficult for, like, your average 40 -year -old
1:20:37the world that it's going to be difficult for, like, your average 40 -year -old
1:20:37the world that it's going to be difficult for, like, your average 40 -year -old
1:20:42person that works an office job to swallow.
1:20:42person that works an office job to swallow.
1:20:42person that works an office job to swallow.
1:20:42person that works an office job to swallow.
1:20:44Yeah, yeah. What also makes sense why offices feel so soulless when you walk into
1:20:44Yeah, yeah. What also makes sense why offices feel so soulless when you walk into
1:20:44Yeah, yeah. What also makes sense why offices feel so soulless when you walk into
1:20:44Yeah, yeah. What also makes sense why offices feel so soulless when you walk into
1:20:50a thing and everything is made out of synthetic material and plastics and metal and
1:20:50a thing and everything is made out of synthetic material and plastics and metal and
1:20:50a thing and everything is made out of synthetic material and plastics and metal and
1:20:50a thing and everything is made out of synthetic material and plastics and metal and
1:20:56it's all manufactured and you're under these bullshit lights and it just feels wrong.
1:20:56it's all manufactured and you're under these bullshit lights and it just feels wrong.
1:20:56it's all manufactured and you're under these bullshit lights and it just feels wrong.
1:20:56it's all manufactured and you're under these bullshit lights and it just feels wrong.
1:21:03It doesn't feel alive. It doesn't feel alive.
1:21:03It doesn't feel alive. It doesn't feel alive.
1:21:03It doesn't feel alive. It doesn't feel alive.
1:21:03It doesn't feel alive. It doesn't feel alive.
1:21:03It doesn't feel alive. No, it feels you might be just surrounded by things that
1:21:03It doesn't feel alive. No, it feels you might be just surrounded by things that
1:21:03It doesn't feel alive. No, it feels you might be just surrounded by things that
1:21:03It doesn't feel alive. No, it feels you might be just surrounded by things that
1:21:07don't have consciousness because they've been kind of stuffed into a form and stuck in
1:21:07don't have consciousness because they've been kind of stuffed into a form and stuck in
1:21:07don't have consciousness because they've been kind of stuffed into a form and stuck in
1:21:07don't have consciousness because they've been kind of stuffed into a form and stuck in
1:21:12place rather than something that exists that works with the earth.
1:21:12place rather than something that exists that works with the earth.
1:21:12place rather than something that exists that works with the earth.
1:21:12place rather than something that exists that works with the earth.
1:21:17Like soil is alive. Right.
1:21:17Like soil is alive. Right.
1:21:17Like soil is alive. Right.
1:21:17Like soil is alive. Right.
1:21:20Yeah. So. And yeah, there's another example.
1:21:20Yeah. So. And yeah, there's another example.
1:21:20Yeah. So. And yeah, there's another example.
1:21:20Yeah. So. And yeah, there's another example.
1:21:21Soil is a lot more alive than we ever realized.
1:21:21Soil is a lot more alive than we ever realized.
1:21:21Soil is a lot more alive than we ever realized.
1:21:21Soil is a lot more alive than we ever realized.
1:21:23We thought it was just dirt.
1:21:23We thought it was just dirt.
1:21:23We thought it was just dirt.
1:21:23We thought it was just dirt.
1:21:25Right. And now we know that there are, you know, a million critters in every
1:21:25Right. And now we know that there are, you know, a million critters in every
1:21:25Right. And now we know that there are, you know, a million critters in every
1:21:25Right. And now we know that there are, you know, a million critters in every
1:21:29teaspoon. There's a really cool channel that I follow on YouTube.
1:21:29teaspoon. There's a really cool channel that I follow on YouTube.
1:21:29teaspoon. There's a really cool channel that I follow on YouTube.
1:21:29teaspoon. There's a really cool channel that I follow on YouTube.
1:21:33It's a guy who takes like rainwater or pond water and he puts it in
1:21:33It's a guy who takes like rainwater or pond water and he puts it in
1:21:33It's a guy who takes like rainwater or pond water and he puts it in
1:21:33It's a guy who takes like rainwater or pond water and he puts it in
1:21:38a jar with some plants and he just leaves it there for months.
1:21:38a jar with some plants and he just leaves it there for months.
1:21:38a jar with some plants and he just leaves it there for months.
1:21:38a jar with some plants and he just leaves it there for months.
1:21:42And then he comes back and there's all these living things moving around it.
1:21:42And then he comes back and there's all these living things moving around it.
1:21:42And then he comes back and there's all these living things moving around it.
1:21:42And then he comes back and there's all these living things moving around it.
1:21:46See if you can find that guy on YouTube.
1:21:46See if you can find that guy on YouTube.
1:21:46See if you can find that guy on YouTube.
1:21:46See if you can find that guy on YouTube.
1:21:48It's fascinating. So I dug a pond or had a pond dug on my property
1:21:48It's fascinating. So I dug a pond or had a pond dug on my property
1:21:48It's fascinating. So I dug a pond or had a pond dug on my property
1:21:48It's fascinating. So I dug a pond or had a pond dug on my property
1:21:53in Connecticut and I watched life come to this pond.
1:21:53in Connecticut and I watched life come to this pond.
1:21:53in Connecticut and I watched life come to this pond.
1:21:53in Connecticut and I watched life come to this pond.
1:21:56It's just, you know, it was just a hole with water.
1:21:56It's just, you know, it was just a hole with water.
1:21:56It's just, you know, it was just a hole with water.
1:21:56It's just, you know, it was just a hole with water.
1:21:58And within a month, it was teeming with life.
1:21:58And within a month, it was teeming with life.
1:21:58And within a month, it was teeming with life.
1:21:58And within a month, it was teeming with life.
1:22:01It's just amazing. Like, how does it get there?
1:22:01It's just amazing. Like, how does it get there?
1:22:01It's just amazing. Like, how does it get there?
1:22:01It's just amazing. Like, how does it get there?
1:22:04Birds carry a lot of it in and frogs carry a lot of it in.
1:22:04Birds carry a lot of it in and frogs carry a lot of it in.
1:22:04Birds carry a lot of it in and frogs carry a lot of it in.
1:22:04Birds carry a lot of it in and frogs carry a lot of it in.
1:22:07And I, and I, after a month or two, I looked at it under a
1:22:07And I, and I, after a month or two, I looked at it under a
1:22:07And I, and I, after a month or two, I looked at it under a
1:22:07And I, and I, after a month or two, I looked at it under a
1:22:10microscope and you couldn't believe it was like a city of critters.
1:22:10microscope and you couldn't believe it was like a city of critters.
1:22:10microscope and you couldn't believe it was like a city of critters.
1:22:10microscope and you couldn't believe it was like a city of critters.
1:22:14It was kind of amazing.
1:22:14It was kind of amazing.
1:22:14It was kind of amazing.
1:22:14It was kind of amazing.
1:22:15They find like trout on lakes that are like way high in the mountain and
1:22:15They find like trout on lakes that are like way high in the mountain and
1:22:15They find like trout on lakes that are like way high in the mountain and
1:22:15They find like trout on lakes that are like way high in the mountain and
1:22:19no one ever stalked the lake.
1:22:19no one ever stalked the lake.
1:22:19no one ever stalked the lake.
1:22:19no one ever stalked the lake.
1:22:21And they're like, okay, how did it get in there?
1:22:21And they're like, okay, how did it get in there?
1:22:21And they're like, okay, how did it get in there?
1:22:21And they're like, okay, how did it get in there?
1:22:23There's all these theories. Birds pick up eggs and deposit them, I guess, is one
1:22:23There's all these theories. Birds pick up eggs and deposit them, I guess, is one
1:22:23There's all these theories. Birds pick up eggs and deposit them, I guess, is one
1:22:23There's all these theories. Birds pick up eggs and deposit them, I guess, is one
1:22:28way. Right. But like, how do they get fertilized?
1:22:28way. Right. But like, how do they get fertilized?
1:22:28way. Right. But like, how do they get fertilized?
1:22:28way. Right. But like, how do they get fertilized?
1:22:32That's a good question. Maybe they're already fertilized.
1:22:32That's a good question. Maybe they're already fertilized.
1:22:32That's a good question. Maybe they're already fertilized.
1:22:32That's a good question. Maybe they're already fertilized.
1:22:35Do you think? I don't know.
1:22:35Do you think? I don't know.
1:22:35Do you think? I don't know.
1:22:35Do you think? I don't know.
1:22:37Yes, that's it. They just have lots of views.
1:22:37Yes, that's it. They just have lots of views.
1:22:37Yes, that's it. They just have lots of views.
1:22:37Yes, that's it. They just have lots of views.
1:22:40Yeah, that's it. Wait, on the left?
1:22:40Yeah, that's it. Wait, on the left?
1:22:40Yeah, that's it. Wait, on the left?
1:22:40Yeah, that's it. Wait, on the left?
1:22:42So this, so this guy, he just takes pond water or lake water or rain
1:22:42So this, so this guy, he just takes pond water or lake water or rain
1:22:42So this, so this guy, he just takes pond water or lake water or rain
1:22:42So this, so this guy, he just takes pond water or lake water or rain
1:22:49water and he puts it in a jar and then he leaves it there.
1:22:49water and he puts it in a jar and then he leaves it there.
1:22:49water and he puts it in a jar and then he leaves it there.
1:22:49water and he puts it in a jar and then he leaves it there.
1:22:52Yeah, it was like, go to like day 60.
1:22:52Yeah, it was like, go to like day 60.
1:22:52Yeah, it was like, go to like day 60.
1:22:52Yeah, it was like, go to like day 60.
1:22:55Where is that? Sorry. On the top, top row where it says day 60 to
1:22:55Where is that? Sorry. On the top, top row where it says day 60 to
1:22:55Where is that? Sorry. On the top, top row where it says day 60 to
1:22:55Where is that? Sorry. On the top, top row where it says day 60 to
1:23:00the right. See where it says day 60?
1:23:00the right. See where it says day 60?
1:23:00the right. See where it says day 60?
1:23:00the right. See where it says day 60?
1:23:01Click on that. So he takes these things and then searches them after, you know,
1:23:01Click on that. So he takes these things and then searches them after, you know,
1:23:01Click on that. So he takes these things and then searches them after, you know,
1:23:01Click on that. So he takes these things and then searches them after, you know,
1:23:08X amount of days. And you see all this stuff living in there, all these
1:23:08X amount of days. And you see all this stuff living in there, all these
1:23:08X amount of days. And you see all this stuff living in there, all these
1:23:08X amount of days. And you see all this stuff living in there, all these
1:23:12things swimming around in there.
1:23:12things swimming around in there.
1:23:12things swimming around in there.
1:23:12things swimming around in there.
1:23:15This isn't the same guy, so there must be other guys that do the same
1:23:15This isn't the same guy, so there must be other guys that do the same
1:23:15This isn't the same guy, so there must be other guys that do the same
1:23:15This isn't the same guy, so there must be other guys that do the same
1:23:18thing. But you see these weird little creatures that are floating around in there.
1:23:18thing. But you see these weird little creatures that are floating around in there.
1:23:18thing. But you see these weird little creatures that are floating around in there.
1:23:18thing. But you see these weird little creatures that are floating around in there.
1:23:23Yeah, I brought my pond water to a biologist and he like...
1:23:23Yeah, I brought my pond water to a biologist and he like...
1:23:23Yeah, I brought my pond water to a biologist and he like...
1:23:23Yeah, I brought my pond water to a biologist and he like...
1:23:26Oh, this is different because this guy's bringing in, he's making an actual aquarium.
1:23:26Oh, this is different because this guy's bringing in, he's making an actual aquarium.
1:23:26Oh, this is different because this guy's bringing in, he's making an actual aquarium.
1:23:26Oh, this is different because this guy's bringing in, he's making an actual aquarium.
1:23:30The guy that I saw was just, he essentially just figured out how to take
1:23:30The guy that I saw was just, he essentially just figured out how to take
1:23:30The guy that I saw was just, he essentially just figured out how to take
1:23:30The guy that I saw was just, he essentially just figured out how to take
1:23:36a scoop of dirt and whatever is alive that's in that dirt with some muddy
1:23:36a scoop of dirt and whatever is alive that's in that dirt with some muddy
1:23:36a scoop of dirt and whatever is alive that's in that dirt with some muddy
1:23:36a scoop of dirt and whatever is alive that's in that dirt with some muddy
1:23:40water and put it in a jar and put more pond water in there and
1:23:40water and put it in a jar and put more pond water in there and
1:23:40water and put it in a jar and put more pond water in there and
1:23:40water and put it in a jar and put more pond water in there and
1:23:43then just leave it there.
1:23:43then just leave it there.
1:23:43then just leave it there.
1:23:43then just leave it there.
1:23:44And then you see all these weird little, like little crustaceans, weird little shrimp looking
1:23:44And then you see all these weird little, like little crustaceans, weird little shrimp looking
1:23:44And then you see all these weird little, like little crustaceans, weird little shrimp looking
1:23:44And then you see all these weird little, like little crustaceans, weird little shrimp looking
1:23:51things. And some of them are killing the other ones.
1:23:51things. And some of them are killing the other ones.
1:23:51things. And some of them are killing the other ones.
1:23:51things. And some of them are killing the other ones.
1:23:54So there's like a real ecosystem in there.
1:23:54So there's like a real ecosystem in there.
1:23:54So there's like a real ecosystem in there.
1:23:54So there's like a real ecosystem in there.
1:23:56Oh, yeah. Very. Yeah, and it's just created like overnight.
1:23:56Oh, yeah. Very. Yeah, and it's just created like overnight.
1:23:56Oh, yeah. Very. Yeah, and it's just created like overnight.
1:23:56Oh, yeah. Very. Yeah, and it's just created like overnight.
1:23:59Yeah. It's very cool. So I think that this is like a trend of our
1:23:59Yeah. It's very cool. So I think that this is like a trend of our
1:23:59Yeah. It's very cool. So I think that this is like a trend of our
1:23:59Yeah. It's very cool. So I think that this is like a trend of our
1:24:03time that's really important that, you know, we went from this idea of the dead
1:24:03time that's really important that, you know, we went from this idea of the dead
1:24:03time that's really important that, you know, we went from this idea of the dead
1:24:03time that's really important that, you know, we went from this idea of the dead
1:24:07world that we could exploit to this other, you know, idea that it's much more
1:24:07world that we could exploit to this other, you know, idea that it's much more
1:24:07world that we could exploit to this other, you know, idea that it's much more
1:24:07world that we could exploit to this other, you know, idea that it's much more
1:24:13animate. And, of course, that's the default for humans.
1:24:13animate. And, of course, that's the default for humans.
1:24:13animate. And, of course, that's the default for humans.
1:24:13animate. And, of course, that's the default for humans.
1:24:17All traditional cultures believe in animism, basically.
1:24:17All traditional cultures believe in animism, basically.
1:24:17All traditional cultures believe in animism, basically.
1:24:17All traditional cultures believe in animism, basically.
1:24:21It's also the default for kids, right?
1:24:21It's also the default for kids, right?
1:24:21It's also the default for kids, right?
1:24:21It's also the default for kids, right?
1:24:23Kids think everything is animate until we knock it out of them in school.
1:24:23Kids think everything is animate until we knock it out of them in school.
1:24:23Kids think everything is animate until we knock it out of them in school.
1:24:23Kids think everything is animate until we knock it out of them in school.
1:24:27Yeah. And so it's very interesting to see science supporting this idea after all these
1:24:27Yeah. And so it's very interesting to see science supporting this idea after all these
1:24:27Yeah. And so it's very interesting to see science supporting this idea after all these
1:24:27Yeah. And so it's very interesting to see science supporting this idea after all these
1:24:34years. And the other thing that's kind of interesting is that it's happening at the
1:24:34years. And the other thing that's kind of interesting is that it's happening at the
1:24:34years. And the other thing that's kind of interesting is that it's happening at the
1:24:34years. And the other thing that's kind of interesting is that it's happening at the
1:24:39same time that some people think AI is going to be conscious.
1:24:39same time that some people think AI is going to be conscious.
1:24:39same time that some people think AI is going to be conscious.
1:24:39same time that some people think AI is going to be conscious.
1:24:45So we're under pressure from both sides.
1:24:45So we're under pressure from both sides.
1:24:45So we're under pressure from both sides.
1:24:45So we're under pressure from both sides.
1:24:48I mean that we're getting these two, you know, these two things happening at once,
1:24:48I mean that we're getting these two, you know, these two things happening at once,
1:24:48I mean that we're getting these two, you know, these two things happening at once,
1:24:48I mean that we're getting these two, you know, these two things happening at once,
1:24:52that machines may soon be smarter than we are, may be conscious, although we could
1:24:52that machines may soon be smarter than we are, may be conscious, although we could
1:24:52that machines may soon be smarter than we are, may be conscious, although we could
1:24:52that machines may soon be smarter than we are, may be conscious, although we could
1:24:58talk about it. I don't think they can be conscious, but they can certainly make
1:24:58talk about it. I don't think they can be conscious, but they can certainly make
1:24:58talk about it. I don't think they can be conscious, but they can certainly make
1:24:58talk about it. I don't think they can be conscious, but they can certainly make
1:25:01us think they're conscious. And then on the other hand, we have the animals who
1:25:01us think they're conscious. And then on the other hand, we have the animals who
1:25:01us think they're conscious. And then on the other hand, we have the animals who
1:25:01us think they're conscious. And then on the other hand, we have the animals who
1:25:07clearly are conscious. And the research on animals is like they're down to plants, they're
1:25:07clearly are conscious. And the research on animals is like they're down to plants, they're
1:25:07clearly are conscious. And the research on animals is like they're down to plants, they're
1:25:07clearly are conscious. And the research on animals is like they're down to plants, they're
1:25:13down to insects that, you know, have signs of – I would use the word
1:25:13down to insects that, you know, have signs of – I would use the word
1:25:13down to insects that, you know, have signs of – I would use the word
1:25:13down to insects that, you know, have signs of – I would use the word
1:25:17sentience rather than consciousness because consciousness implies interiority and, you know, the voice in your
1:25:17sentience rather than consciousness because consciousness implies interiority and, you know, the voice in your
1:25:17sentience rather than consciousness because consciousness implies interiority and, you know, the voice in your
1:25:17sentience rather than consciousness because consciousness implies interiority and, you know, the voice in your
1:25:24head and things like that.
1:25:24head and things like that.
1:25:24head and things like that.
1:25:24head and things like that.
1:25:25They have a more basic form of consciousness that I call sentience.
1:25:25They have a more basic form of consciousness that I call sentience.
1:25:25They have a more basic form of consciousness that I call sentience.
1:25:25They have a more basic form of consciousness that I call sentience.
1:25:29Like dog consciousness? Yeah. I think dogs are higher conscious.
1:25:29Like dog consciousness? Yeah. I think dogs are higher conscious.
1:25:29Like dog consciousness? Yeah. I think dogs are higher conscious.
1:25:29Like dog consciousness? Yeah. I think dogs are higher conscious.
1:25:34I think they're more conscious than those simple things.
1:25:34I think they're more conscious than those simple things.
1:25:34I think they're more conscious than those simple things.
1:25:34I think they're more conscious than those simple things.
1:25:37I would say dogs are conscious, not just sentient.
1:25:37I would say dogs are conscious, not just sentient.
1:25:37I would say dogs are conscious, not just sentient.
1:25:37I would say dogs are conscious, not just sentient.
1:25:40Is it just because they communicate with us that we think that?
1:25:40Is it just because they communicate with us that we think that?
1:25:40Is it just because they communicate with us that we think that?
1:25:40Is it just because they communicate with us that we think that?
1:25:43I mean why would we assume if plants have all these different senses and we
1:25:43I mean why would we assume if plants have all these different senses and we
1:25:43I mean why would we assume if plants have all these different senses and we
1:25:43I mean why would we assume if plants have all these different senses and we
1:25:47see this communication with them in terms of like allocating resources to other plants that
1:25:47see this communication with them in terms of like allocating resources to other plants that
1:25:47see this communication with them in terms of like allocating resources to other plants that
1:25:47see this communication with them in terms of like allocating resources to other plants that
1:25:51need it, the use of mycelium, their ability to do all these different things?
1:25:51need it, the use of mycelium, their ability to do all these different things?
1:25:51need it, the use of mycelium, their ability to do all these different things?
1:25:51need it, the use of mycelium, their ability to do all these different things?
1:25:56Why are we assuming that just because they can't move the way we move?
1:25:56Why are we assuming that just because they can't move the way we move?
1:25:56Why are we assuming that just because they can't move the way we move?
1:25:56Why are we assuming that just because they can't move the way we move?
1:26:00Yeah, that they don't have more going on.
1:26:00Yeah, that they don't have more going on.
1:26:00Yeah, that they don't have more going on.
1:26:00Yeah, that they don't have more going on.
1:26:02Yeah, it's possible, but I don't know what good it would do them.
1:26:02Yeah, it's possible, but I don't know what good it would do them.
1:26:02Yeah, it's possible, but I don't know what good it would do them.
1:26:02Yeah, it's possible, but I don't know what good it would do them.
1:26:06Like plants, what they get really good at, what matters to them is biochemistry.
1:26:06Like plants, what they get really good at, what matters to them is biochemistry.
1:26:06Like plants, what they get really good at, what matters to them is biochemistry.
1:26:06Like plants, what they get really good at, what matters to them is biochemistry.
1:26:11They have to produce chemicals either to poison their enemies or confuse them with drugs.
1:26:11They have to produce chemicals either to poison their enemies or confuse them with drugs.
1:26:11They have to produce chemicals either to poison their enemies or confuse them with drugs.
1:26:11They have to produce chemicals either to poison their enemies or confuse them with drugs.
1:26:19But they also want to grow and thrive.
1:26:19But they also want to grow and thrive.
1:26:19But they also want to grow and thrive.
1:26:19But they also want to grow and thrive.
1:26:21They do want to grow and thrive.
1:26:21They do want to grow and thrive.
1:26:21They do want to grow and thrive.
1:26:21They do want to grow and thrive.
1:26:22And they also exist in a community.
1:26:22And they also exist in a community.
1:26:22And they also exist in a community.
1:26:22And they also exist in a community.
1:26:23Yes, definitely. Right, so don't you think that consciousness would be essential in order to
1:26:23Yes, definitely. Right, so don't you think that consciousness would be essential in order to
1:26:23Yes, definitely. Right, so don't you think that consciousness would be essential in order to
1:26:23Yes, definitely. Right, so don't you think that consciousness would be essential in order to
1:26:30foster that feeling of community?
1:26:30foster that feeling of community?
1:26:30foster that feeling of community?
1:26:30foster that feeling of community?
1:26:32That's interesting. I hadn't thought about that.
1:26:32That's interesting. I hadn't thought about that.
1:26:32That's interesting. I hadn't thought about that.
1:26:32That's interesting. I hadn't thought about that.
1:26:34Yeah. Yeah, that could be.
1:26:34Yeah. Yeah, that could be.
1:26:34Yeah. Yeah, that could be.
1:26:34Yeah. Yeah, that could be.
1:26:36Dogs are an easier case because they communicate with us directly.
1:26:36Dogs are an easier case because they communicate with us directly.
1:26:36Dogs are an easier case because they communicate with us directly.
1:26:36Dogs are an easier case because they communicate with us directly.
1:26:41They're clearly conscious. Yeah, they are.
1:26:41They're clearly conscious. Yeah, they are.
1:26:41They're clearly conscious. Yeah, they are.
1:26:41They're clearly conscious. Yeah, they are.
1:26:43In a way that's very profound.
1:26:43In a way that's very profound.
1:26:43In a way that's very profound.
1:26:43In a way that's very profound.
1:26:45But different than we, obviously.
1:26:45But different than we, obviously.
1:26:45But different than we, obviously.
1:26:45But different than we, obviously.
1:26:47I mean, one of the realizations I had when I was in the cave was
1:26:47I mean, one of the realizations I had when I was in the cave was
1:26:47I mean, one of the realizations I had when I was in the cave was
1:26:47I mean, one of the realizations I had when I was in the cave was
1:26:52that, you know, we often think that we're more conscious than animals.
1:26:52that, you know, we often think that we're more conscious than animals.
1:26:52that, you know, we often think that we're more conscious than animals.
1:26:52that, you know, we often think that we're more conscious than animals.
1:26:57But actually, animals are more conscious than we are.
1:26:57But actually, animals are more conscious than we are.
1:26:57But actually, animals are more conscious than we are.
1:26:57But actually, animals are more conscious than we are.
1:26:59They have to be. They have to be present because they get eaten if they're
1:26:59They have to be. They have to be present because they get eaten if they're
1:26:59They have to be. They have to be present because they get eaten if they're
1:26:59They have to be. They have to be present because they get eaten if they're
1:27:03not, right? Because we have this giant structure of civilization and the security it gives
1:27:03not, right? Because we have this giant structure of civilization and the security it gives
1:27:03not, right? Because we have this giant structure of civilization and the security it gives
1:27:03not, right? Because we have this giant structure of civilization and the security it gives
1:27:09us and we have this technology that allows us to check out.
1:27:09us and we have this technology that allows us to check out.
1:27:09us and we have this technology that allows us to check out.
1:27:09us and we have this technology that allows us to check out.
1:27:14But I actually think animals are more conscious than we are.
1:27:14But I actually think animals are more conscious than we are.
1:27:14But I actually think animals are more conscious than we are.
1:27:14But I actually think animals are more conscious than we are.
1:27:16It's different. It's different. But...
1:27:16It's different. It's different. But...
1:27:16It's different. It's different. But...
1:27:16It's different. It's different. But...
1:27:17But... But... But... If we think of being conscious as really being present to the
1:27:17But... But... But... If we think of being conscious as really being present to the
1:27:17But... But... But... If we think of being conscious as really being present to the
1:27:17But... But... But... If we think of being conscious as really being present to the
1:27:22moment, dogs are very present to the moment.
1:27:22moment, dogs are very present to the moment.
1:27:22moment, dogs are very present to the moment.
1:27:22moment, dogs are very present to the moment.
1:27:25Well, certainly animals are getting more information about the environment than we are.
1:27:25Well, certainly animals are getting more information about the environment than we are.
1:27:25Well, certainly animals are getting more information about the environment than we are.
1:27:25Well, certainly animals are getting more information about the environment than we are.
1:27:29Yes. They have much better sense of smell, much better sense of hearing.
1:27:29Yes. They have much better sense of smell, much better sense of hearing.
1:27:29Yes. They have much better sense of smell, much better sense of hearing.
1:27:29Yes. They have much better sense of smell, much better sense of hearing.
1:27:35There's a lot of different things that they can do.
1:27:35There's a lot of different things that they can do.
1:27:35There's a lot of different things that they can do.
1:27:35There's a lot of different things that they can do.
1:27:37Like animals seem to be able to tell when you're nervous.
1:27:37Like animals seem to be able to tell when you're nervous.
1:27:37Like animals seem to be able to tell when you're nervous.
1:27:37Like animals seem to be able to tell when you're nervous.
1:27:40Yeah. Oh, they read the environment.
1:27:40Yeah. Oh, they read the environment.
1:27:40Yeah. Oh, they read the environment.
1:27:40Yeah. Oh, they read the environment.
1:27:42They read other creatures. Yeah.
1:27:42They read other creatures. Yeah.
1:27:42They read other creatures. Yeah.
1:27:42They read other creatures. Yeah.
1:27:45And, you know, we used to have more skills when we had to survive in
1:27:45And, you know, we used to have more skills when we had to survive in
1:27:45And, you know, we used to have more skills when we had to survive in
1:27:45And, you know, we used to have more skills when we had to survive in
1:27:48a natural world in nature.
1:27:48a natural world in nature.
1:27:48a natural world in nature.
1:27:48a natural world in nature.
1:27:51You know, we, I mean, you see this with traditional, you know, with tribes, indigenous
1:27:51You know, we, I mean, you see this with traditional, you know, with tribes, indigenous
1:27:51You know, we, I mean, you see this with traditional, you know, with tribes, indigenous
1:27:51You know, we, I mean, you see this with traditional, you know, with tribes, indigenous
1:27:56tribes, that they have knowledge of nature that far exceeds ours because they need it
1:27:56tribes, that they have knowledge of nature that far exceeds ours because they need it
1:27:56tribes, that they have knowledge of nature that far exceeds ours because they need it
1:27:56tribes, that they have knowledge of nature that far exceeds ours because they need it
1:28:01to survive. But anyway, so I think we're going to get to a point where
1:28:01to survive. But anyway, so I think we're going to get to a point where
1:28:01to survive. But anyway, so I think we're going to get to a point where
1:28:01to survive. But anyway, so I think we're going to get to a point where
1:28:06we have to decide whose team we're on.
1:28:06we have to decide whose team we're on.
1:28:06we have to decide whose team we're on.
1:28:06we have to decide whose team we're on.
1:28:09Are we, like, with these machines that speak our language and speak in the first
1:28:09Are we, like, with these machines that speak our language and speak in the first
1:28:09Are we, like, with these machines that speak our language and speak in the first
1:28:09Are we, like, with these machines that speak our language and speak in the first
1:28:14person and sound like us?
1:28:14person and sound like us?
1:28:14person and sound like us?
1:28:14person and sound like us?
1:28:16Right. Or are we with the animals that can feel and suffer and die?
1:28:16Right. Or are we with the animals that can feel and suffer and die?
1:28:16Right. Or are we with the animals that can feel and suffer and die?
1:28:16Right. Or are we with the animals that can feel and suffer and die?
1:28:21Mm -hmm. And I think that's going to be a big choice for us to
1:28:21Mm -hmm. And I think that's going to be a big choice for us to
1:28:21Mm -hmm. And I think that's going to be a big choice for us to
1:28:21Mm -hmm. And I think that's going to be a big choice for us to
1:28:26make as a civilization. Why do you think that AI won't be conscious?
1:28:26make as a civilization. Why do you think that AI won't be conscious?
1:28:26make as a civilization. Why do you think that AI won't be conscious?
1:28:26make as a civilization. Why do you think that AI won't be conscious?
1:28:33The most interesting line of research, well, a couple reasons.
1:28:33The most interesting line of research, well, a couple reasons.
1:28:33The most interesting line of research, well, a couple reasons.
1:28:33The most interesting line of research, well, a couple reasons.
1:28:37The first is the idea that it can be conscious, which is very common in
1:28:37The first is the idea that it can be conscious, which is very common in
1:28:37The first is the idea that it can be conscious, which is very common in
1:28:37The first is the idea that it can be conscious, which is very common in
1:28:41Silicon Valley. I talk to lots of people there, and they say, oh, it's just
1:28:41Silicon Valley. I talk to lots of people there, and they say, oh, it's just
1:28:41Silicon Valley. I talk to lots of people there, and they say, oh, it's just
1:28:41Silicon Valley. I talk to lots of people there, and they say, oh, it's just
1:28:44a matter of time. Some of that is confusion that intelligence and consciousness necessarily go
1:28:44a matter of time. Some of that is confusion that intelligence and consciousness necessarily go
1:28:44a matter of time. Some of that is confusion that intelligence and consciousness necessarily go
1:28:44a matter of time. Some of that is confusion that intelligence and consciousness necessarily go
1:28:50together, and they don't. They're very, they have an orthogonal relationship, right?
1:28:50together, and they don't. They're very, they have an orthogonal relationship, right?
1:28:50together, and they don't. They're very, they have an orthogonal relationship, right?
1:28:50together, and they don't. They're very, they have an orthogonal relationship, right?
1:28:54I mean, you know people who are conscious and not too intelligent, right?
1:28:54I mean, you know people who are conscious and not too intelligent, right?
1:28:54I mean, you know people who are conscious and not too intelligent, right?
1:28:54I mean, you know people who are conscious and not too intelligent, right?
1:28:59And we all do. So it's not going to just come along for the ride
1:28:59And we all do. So it's not going to just come along for the ride
1:28:59And we all do. So it's not going to just come along for the ride
1:28:59And we all do. So it's not going to just come along for the ride
1:29:04with intelligence as these machines get more intelligent.
1:29:04with intelligence as these machines get more intelligent.
1:29:04with intelligence as these machines get more intelligent.
1:29:04with intelligence as these machines get more intelligent.
1:29:07But the belief that AI can be conscious is based on a metaphor that I
1:29:07But the belief that AI can be conscious is based on a metaphor that I
1:29:07But the belief that AI can be conscious is based on a metaphor that I
1:29:07But the belief that AI can be conscious is based on a metaphor that I
1:29:12think is a crappy metaphor, and that is that the brain is a kind of
1:29:12think is a crappy metaphor, and that is that the brain is a kind of
1:29:12think is a crappy metaphor, and that is that the brain is a kind of
1:29:12think is a crappy metaphor, and that is that the brain is a kind of
1:29:16computer. And this is widely held.
1:29:16computer. And this is widely held.
1:29:16computer. And this is widely held.
1:29:16computer. And this is widely held.
1:29:19It's interesting to note that in history, whatever the cool, cutting -edge technology was, brains
1:29:19It's interesting to note that in history, whatever the cool, cutting -edge technology was, brains
1:29:19It's interesting to note that in history, whatever the cool, cutting -edge technology was, brains
1:29:19It's interesting to note that in history, whatever the cool, cutting -edge technology was, brains
1:29:26were likened to that. So it was looms for a while.
1:29:26were likened to that. So it was looms for a while.
1:29:26were likened to that. So it was looms for a while.
1:29:26were likened to that. So it was looms for a while.
1:29:30It was clocks for a while.
1:29:30It was clocks for a while.
1:29:30It was clocks for a while.
1:29:30It was clocks for a while.
1:29:32It was telephone switchboards. Whatever was the cool technology, surely that's how brains work.
1:29:32It was telephone switchboards. Whatever was the cool technology, surely that's how brains work.
1:29:32It was telephone switchboards. Whatever was the cool technology, surely that's how brains work.
1:29:32It was telephone switchboards. Whatever was the cool technology, surely that's how brains work.
1:29:38Now it's computers. But think about it.
1:29:38Now it's computers. But think about it.
1:29:38Now it's computers. But think about it.
1:29:38Now it's computers. But think about it.
1:29:41In a computer, you have this sharp distinction between hardware and software.
1:29:41In a computer, you have this sharp distinction between hardware and software.
1:29:41In a computer, you have this sharp distinction between hardware and software.
1:29:41In a computer, you have this sharp distinction between hardware and software.
1:29:45That's the key to their success.
1:29:45That's the key to their success.
1:29:45That's the key to their success.
1:29:45That's the key to their success.
1:29:47And you can run the same program on any number of different hardwares.
1:29:47And you can run the same program on any number of different hardwares.
1:29:47And you can run the same program on any number of different hardwares.
1:29:47And you can run the same program on any number of different hardwares.
1:29:51They're interchangeable. Brains aren't like that.
1:29:51They're interchangeable. Brains aren't like that.
1:29:51They're interchangeable. Brains aren't like that.
1:29:51They're interchangeable. Brains aren't like that.
1:29:53There's no distinction between hardware and software.
1:29:53There's no distinction between hardware and software.
1:29:53There's no distinction between hardware and software.
1:29:53There's no distinction between hardware and software.
1:29:56Every experience you have, every memory, is a physical change to the brain, to the
1:29:56Every experience you have, every memory, is a physical change to the brain, to the
1:29:56Every experience you have, every memory, is a physical change to the brain, to the
1:29:56Every experience you have, every memory, is a physical change to the brain, to the
1:30:02way it's wired. You know, we start out with all these connections, and then they
1:30:02way it's wired. You know, we start out with all these connections, and then they
1:30:02way it's wired. You know, we start out with all these connections, and then they
1:30:02way it's wired. You know, we start out with all these connections, and then they
1:30:06get pruned as we grow up.
1:30:06get pruned as we grow up.
1:30:06get pruned as we grow up.
1:30:06get pruned as we grow up.
1:30:09Every brain is shaped by its experience.
1:30:09Every brain is shaped by its experience.
1:30:09Every brain is shaped by its experience.
1:30:09Every brain is shaped by its experience.
1:30:11So this idea that you could separate, that consciousness is some kind of software that
1:30:11So this idea that you could separate, that consciousness is some kind of software that
1:30:11So this idea that you could separate, that consciousness is some kind of software that
1:30:11So this idea that you could separate, that consciousness is some kind of software that
1:30:16you could run on other things besides meat, I just think it doesn't hold up.
1:30:16you could run on other things besides meat, I just think it doesn't hold up.
1:30:16you could run on other things besides meat, I just think it doesn't hold up.
1:30:16you could run on other things besides meat, I just think it doesn't hold up.
1:30:23Well, if the universe is experiencing itself subjectively through consciousness, why does it have to
1:30:23Well, if the universe is experiencing itself subjectively through consciousness, why does it have to
1:30:23Well, if the universe is experiencing itself subjectively through consciousness, why does it have to
1:30:23Well, if the universe is experiencing itself subjectively through consciousness, why does it have to
1:30:30be only biological consciousness? It doesn't have to be.
1:30:30be only biological consciousness? It doesn't have to be.
1:30:30be only biological consciousness? It doesn't have to be.
1:30:30be only biological consciousness? It doesn't have to be.
1:30:35But if there is a technology that is invented that essentially does all the things
1:30:35But if there is a technology that is invented that essentially does all the things
1:30:35But if there is a technology that is invented that essentially does all the things
1:30:35But if there is a technology that is invented that essentially does all the things
1:30:41that a human body does physically, and also interacts with consciousness, the consciousness of the
1:30:41that a human body does physically, and also interacts with consciousness, the consciousness of the
1:30:41that a human body does physically, and also interacts with consciousness, the consciousness of the
1:30:41that a human body does physically, and also interacts with consciousness, the consciousness of the
1:30:47universe. Yeah. I mean, hypothetically.
1:30:47universe. Yeah. I mean, hypothetically.
1:30:47universe. Yeah. I mean, hypothetically.
1:30:47universe. Yeah. I mean, hypothetically.
1:30:50Hypothetically. Yeah. If the universe is conscious, if we are using the mind as essentially
1:30:50Hypothetically. Yeah. If the universe is conscious, if we are using the mind as essentially
1:30:50Hypothetically. Yeah. If the universe is conscious, if we are using the mind as essentially
1:30:50Hypothetically. Yeah. If the universe is conscious, if we are using the mind as essentially
1:30:56an antenna to tune into consciousness, it's possible that we could make an antenna.
1:30:56an antenna to tune into consciousness, it's possible that we could make an antenna.
1:30:56an antenna to tune into consciousness, it's possible that we could make an antenna.
1:30:56an antenna to tune into consciousness, it's possible that we could make an antenna.
1:31:02Yes, absolutely. It's also likely that if we are ever visited by aliens, that they
1:31:02Yes, absolutely. It's also likely that if we are ever visited by aliens, that they
1:31:02Yes, absolutely. It's also likely that if we are ever visited by aliens, that they
1:31:02Yes, absolutely. It's also likely that if we are ever visited by aliens, that they
1:31:09will have some kind of consciousness, and it may not be meat -based, right?
1:31:09will have some kind of consciousness, and it may not be meat -based, right?
1:31:09will have some kind of consciousness, and it may not be meat -based, right?
1:31:09will have some kind of consciousness, and it may not be meat -based, right?
1:31:13Right, right. Or it may be at one point in time it was, but they
1:31:13Right, right. Or it may be at one point in time it was, but they
1:31:13Right, right. Or it may be at one point in time it was, but they
1:31:13Right, right. Or it may be at one point in time it was, but they
1:31:16realize that there's biological limitations in terms of its ability to evolve that can be
1:31:16realize that there's biological limitations in terms of its ability to evolve that can be
1:31:16realize that there's biological limitations in terms of its ability to evolve that can be
1:31:16realize that there's biological limitations in terms of its ability to evolve that can be
1:31:22far surpassed with technology. Yeah.
1:31:22far surpassed with technology. Yeah.
1:31:22far surpassed with technology. Yeah.
1:31:22far surpassed with technology. Yeah.
1:31:25I mean, that or it just evolved in a different way.
1:31:25I mean, that or it just evolved in a different way.
1:31:25I mean, that or it just evolved in a different way.
1:31:25I mean, that or it just evolved in a different way.
1:31:28Or they're channeling it in a different way.
1:31:28Or they're channeling it in a different way.
1:31:28Or they're channeling it in a different way.
1:31:28Or they're channeling it in a different way.
1:31:30But the other reason I don't see it happening with computers as we know them,
1:31:30But the other reason I don't see it happening with computers as we know them,
1:31:30But the other reason I don't see it happening with computers as we know them,
1:31:30But the other reason I don't see it happening with computers as we know them,
1:31:35because that's the debate now, whether these computers we have, these large language models and
1:31:35because that's the debate now, whether these computers we have, these large language models and
1:31:35because that's the debate now, whether these computers we have, these large language models and
1:31:35because that's the debate now, whether these computers we have, these large language models and
1:31:42the next generation can be conscious, is that the research that I found most persuasive
1:31:42the next generation can be conscious, is that the research that I found most persuasive
1:31:42the next generation can be conscious, is that the research that I found most persuasive
1:31:42the next generation can be conscious, is that the research that I found most persuasive
1:31:48about consciousness is basically has consciousness beginning with feelings, not thoughts.
1:31:48about consciousness is basically has consciousness beginning with feelings, not thoughts.
1:31:48about consciousness is basically has consciousness beginning with feelings, not thoughts.
1:31:48about consciousness is basically has consciousness beginning with feelings, not thoughts.
1:31:57In other words, it's embodied.
1:31:57In other words, it's embodied.
1:31:57In other words, it's embodied.
1:31:57In other words, it's embodied.
1:31:59And I have to just develop this a little bit, but we, you know, the
1:31:59And I have to just develop this a little bit, but we, you know, the
1:31:59And I have to just develop this a little bit, but we, you know, the
1:31:59And I have to just develop this a little bit, but we, you know, the
1:32:04brain exists to keep the body alive, not the other way around.
1:32:04brain exists to keep the body alive, not the other way around.
1:32:04brain exists to keep the body alive, not the other way around.
1:32:04brain exists to keep the body alive, not the other way around.
1:32:07Although we tend, since we identify with our heads where most of our senses are,
1:32:07Although we tend, since we identify with our heads where most of our senses are,
1:32:07Although we tend, since we identify with our heads where most of our senses are,
1:32:07Although we tend, since we identify with our heads where most of our senses are,
1:32:12we lose track of that.
1:32:12we lose track of that.
1:32:12we lose track of that.
1:32:12we lose track of that.
1:32:14And the body speaks to the brain in feelings, right?
1:32:14And the body speaks to the brain in feelings, right?
1:32:14And the body speaks to the brain in feelings, right?
1:32:14And the body speaks to the brain in feelings, right?
1:32:17You know, feelings of hunger, itchiness, warmth, cold, but also feelings of shame when our
1:32:17You know, feelings of hunger, itchiness, warmth, cold, but also feelings of shame when our
1:32:17You know, feelings of hunger, itchiness, warmth, cold, but also feelings of shame when our
1:32:17You know, feelings of hunger, itchiness, warmth, cold, but also feelings of shame when our
1:32:26social standing is not, you know, has been damaged.
1:32:26social standing is not, you know, has been damaged.
1:32:26social standing is not, you know, has been damaged.
1:32:26social standing is not, you know, has been damaged.
1:32:30Anyway, we have these feelings.
1:32:30Anyway, we have these feelings.
1:32:30Anyway, we have these feelings.
1:32:30Anyway, we have these feelings.
1:32:32They depend on a body.
1:32:32They depend on a body.
1:32:32They depend on a body.
1:32:32They depend on a body.
1:32:35Feelings have no weight if you're not vulnerable.
1:32:35Feelings have no weight if you're not vulnerable.
1:32:35Feelings have no weight if you're not vulnerable.
1:32:35Feelings have no weight if you're not vulnerable.
1:32:39Your body isn't vulnerable. So consciousness is embodied in a really critical way.
1:32:39Your body isn't vulnerable. So consciousness is embodied in a really critical way.
1:32:39Your body isn't vulnerable. So consciousness is embodied in a really critical way.
1:32:39Your body isn't vulnerable. So consciousness is embodied in a really critical way.
1:32:49And computers are not. Now, robots will be.
1:32:49And computers are not. Now, robots will be.
1:32:49And computers are not. Now, robots will be.
1:32:49And computers are not. Now, robots will be.
1:32:53And I actually interview a guy, a scientist at USC, who is trying to make
1:32:53And I actually interview a guy, a scientist at USC, who is trying to make
1:32:53And I actually interview a guy, a scientist at USC, who is trying to make
1:32:53And I actually interview a guy, a scientist at USC, who is trying to make
1:32:59a vulnerable robot. So he's essentially upholstering the thing with skin that can tear and
1:32:59a vulnerable robot. So he's essentially upholstering the thing with skin that can tear and
1:32:59a vulnerable robot. So he's essentially upholstering the thing with skin that can tear and
1:32:59a vulnerable robot. So he's essentially upholstering the thing with skin that can tear and
1:33:06be damaged. And he's filling the skin with all these sensors so that it can
1:33:06be damaged. And he's filling the skin with all these sensors so that it can
1:33:06be damaged. And he's filling the skin with all these sensors so that it can
1:33:06be damaged. And he's filling the skin with all these sensors so that it can
1:33:12be like us and be vulnerable and generate feelings that are how consciousness begins.
1:33:12be like us and be vulnerable and generate feelings that are how consciousness begins.
1:33:12be like us and be vulnerable and generate feelings that are how consciousness begins.
1:33:12be like us and be vulnerable and generate feelings that are how consciousness begins.
1:33:18So for a long time, we thought consciousness had to be in the cortex, right?
1:33:18So for a long time, we thought consciousness had to be in the cortex, right?
1:33:18So for a long time, we thought consciousness had to be in the cortex, right?
1:33:18So for a long time, we thought consciousness had to be in the cortex, right?
1:33:23The most human, newest part of the brain, the outer covering.
1:33:23The most human, newest part of the brain, the outer covering.
1:33:23The most human, newest part of the brain, the outer covering.
1:33:23The most human, newest part of the brain, the outer covering.
1:33:27And that's where rational thought and executive function are and all these kind of things.
1:33:27And that's where rational thought and executive function are and all these kind of things.
1:33:27And that's where rational thought and executive function are and all these kind of things.
1:33:27And that's where rational thought and executive function are and all these kind of things.
1:33:31The most human, the most human, the most human, the most human, the most human,
1:33:31The most human, the most human, the most human, the most human, the most human,
1:33:31The most human, the most human, the most human, the most human, the most human,
1:33:31The most human, the most human, the most human, the most human, the most human,
1:33:32the most human, the most human, the most human, the most human, the most human,
1:33:32the most human, the most human, the most human, the most human, the most human,
1:33:32the most human, the most human, the most human, the most human, the most human,
1:33:32the most human, the most human, the most human, the most human, the most human,
1:33:32the most human, the most human, the most human, the most human, the most human,
1:33:32the most human, the most human, the most human, the most human, the most human,
1:33:32the most human, the most human, the most human, the most human, the most human,
1:33:32the most human, the most human, the most human, the most human, the most human,
1:33:32the most human, the most human, the most human, the most human, the most human,
1:33:32the most human, the most human, the most human, the most human, the most human,
1:33:32the most human, the most human, the most human, the most human, the most human,
1:33:32the most human, the most human, the most human, the most human, the most human,
1:33:32the most human, the most human, the most human, the most human, the most human,
1:33:32the most human, the most human, the most human, the most human, the most human,
1:33:32the most human, the most human, the most human, the most human, the most human,
1:33:32the most human, the most human, the most human, the most human, the most human,
1:33:32the most human, the most human, the most human, the most human, the most human,
1:33:32the most human, the most human, the most human, the most human, the most human,
1:33:32the most human, the most human, the most human, the most human, the most human,
1:33:32the most human, the most human, the most human, the most human, the most human,
1:33:32the most human, the most human, the most human, the most human, the most human,
1:33:32the most human, the most human, the most human, the most human, the most human,
1:33:32the most human, the most human, the most human, the most human, the most human,
1:33:32the most human, the most human, the most human, the most human, the most human,
1:33:32the most human, the most human, the most human, the most human, the most human,
1:33:32the most human, the most human, the most human, the most human, the most human,
1:33:32the most human, the most human, the most human, the most human, the most human,
1:33:32the most human, the most human, the most human, the most human, the most human,
1:33:32the most human, the most human, the most human, the most human, the most human,
1:33:32the most human, the most human, the most human, the most human, the most human,
1:33:32the most human, the most human, the most human, the most human, the most human,
1:33:32the most human, the most human, the most human, the most human, the most human,
1:33:32the most human, the most human, the most human, the most human, the most human,
1:33:32the most human, the most human, the most human, the most human, the most human,
1:33:32the most human, the most human, the most human, the most human, the most human,
1:33:32the most human, the most human, the most human, the most human, the most human,
1:33:32the most human, the most human, the most human, the most human, the most human,
1:33:32the most human, the most human, the most human, the most human, the most human,
1:33:32the most human, the most human, the most human, the most human, the most human,
1:33:32the most human, the most human, the most human, the most human, the most human,
1:33:32the But as it turns out, it really begins with feelings in the brainstem.
1:33:32the But as it turns out, it really begins with feelings in the brainstem.
1:33:32the But as it turns out, it really begins with feelings in the brainstem.
1:33:32the But as it turns out, it really begins with feelings in the brainstem.
1:33:37Let's say you have a feeling of hunger.
1:33:37Let's say you have a feeling of hunger.
1:33:37Let's say you have a feeling of hunger.
1:33:37Let's say you have a feeling of hunger.
1:33:39It registers in the upper brainstem.
1:33:39It registers in the upper brainstem.
1:33:39It registers in the upper brainstem.
1:33:39It registers in the upper brainstem.
1:33:41And only later does the cortex get involved, like helping you figure out how are
1:33:41And only later does the cortex get involved, like helping you figure out how are
1:33:41And only later does the cortex get involved, like helping you figure out how are
1:33:41And only later does the cortex get involved, like helping you figure out how are
1:33:45you going to feed yourself, like imagining a meal, counterfactuals of different meals, or making
1:33:45you going to feed yourself, like imagining a meal, counterfactuals of different meals, or making
1:33:45you going to feed yourself, like imagining a meal, counterfactuals of different meals, or making
1:33:45you going to feed yourself, like imagining a meal, counterfactuals of different meals, or making
1:33:51a reservation at a restaurant.
1:33:51a reservation at a restaurant.
1:33:51a reservation at a restaurant.
1:33:51a reservation at a restaurant.
1:33:53All those are cortical things.
1:33:53All those are cortical things.
1:33:53All those are cortical things.
1:33:53All those are cortical things.
1:33:55But it begins in the brainstem with feelings.
1:33:55But it begins in the brainstem with feelings.
1:33:55But it begins in the brainstem with feelings.
1:33:55But it begins in the brainstem with feelings.
1:33:57So if that is true, and I find that really persuasive because people born without
1:33:57So if that is true, and I find that really persuasive because people born without
1:33:57So if that is true, and I find that really persuasive because people born without
1:33:57So if that is true, and I find that really persuasive because people born without
1:34:04a cortex are still conscious.
1:34:04a cortex are still conscious.
1:34:04a cortex are still conscious.
1:34:04a cortex are still conscious.
1:34:06Animals that you take the cortex out still show signs of consciousness.
1:34:06Animals that you take the cortex out still show signs of consciousness.
1:34:06Animals that you take the cortex out still show signs of consciousness.
1:34:06Animals that you take the cortex out still show signs of consciousness.
1:34:12Whereas if you damage the upper brainstem, you're out.
1:34:12Whereas if you damage the upper brainstem, you're out.
1:34:12Whereas if you damage the upper brainstem, you're out.
1:34:12Whereas if you damage the upper brainstem, you're out.
1:34:16You're unconscious. So if this is true, and consciousness is this embodied phenomenon that depends
1:34:16You're unconscious. So if this is true, and consciousness is this embodied phenomenon that depends
1:34:16You're unconscious. So if this is true, and consciousness is this embodied phenomenon that depends
1:34:16You're unconscious. So if this is true, and consciousness is this embodied phenomenon that depends
1:34:23on having a body to mean anything, I don't see how machines are going to
1:34:23on having a body to mean anything, I don't see how machines are going to
1:34:23on having a body to mean anything, I don't see how machines are going to
1:34:23on having a body to mean anything, I don't see how machines are going to
1:34:29do that. But isn't the key word there if?
1:34:29do that. But isn't the key word there if?
1:34:29do that. But isn't the key word there if?
1:34:29do that. But isn't the key word there if?
1:34:32Yeah, if. Yeah, definitely. Because consciousness is just something that we're tuning into that's around
1:34:32Yeah, if. Yeah, definitely. Because consciousness is just something that we're tuning into that's around
1:34:32Yeah, if. Yeah, definitely. Because consciousness is just something that we're tuning into that's around
1:34:32Yeah, if. Yeah, definitely. Because consciousness is just something that we're tuning into that's around
1:34:37us all the time. There will be other ways to do it.
1:34:37us all the time. There will be other ways to do it.
1:34:37us all the time. There will be other ways to do it.
1:34:37us all the time. There will be other ways to do it.
1:34:40Right. But it won't be these computers we're building right now.
1:34:40Right. But it won't be these computers we're building right now.
1:34:40Right. But it won't be these computers we're building right now.
1:34:40Right. But it won't be these computers we're building right now.
1:34:42Why is that? Because they're designed, you know, they're good at, so here's a paradox
1:34:42Why is that? Because they're designed, you know, they're good at, so here's a paradox
1:34:42Why is that? Because they're designed, you know, they're good at, so here's a paradox
1:34:42Why is that? Because they're designed, you know, they're good at, so here's a paradox
1:34:49of computers. Computers are really good.
1:34:49of computers. Computers are really good.
1:34:49of computers. Computers are really good.
1:34:49of computers. Computers are really good.
1:34:52It's called Moravec's paradox. Computers are really good at the highest kinds of rational thought,
1:34:52It's called Moravec's paradox. Computers are really good at the highest kinds of rational thought,
1:34:52It's called Moravec's paradox. Computers are really good at the highest kinds of rational thought,
1:34:52It's called Moravec's paradox. Computers are really good at the highest kinds of rational thought,
1:35:00right? They can play chess and go.
1:35:00right? They can play chess and go.
1:35:00right? They can play chess and go.
1:35:00right? They can play chess and go.
1:35:02They can simulate real thinking.
1:35:02They can simulate real thinking.
1:35:02They can simulate real thinking.
1:35:02They can simulate real thinking.
1:35:04And some people say they do think.
1:35:04And some people say they do think.
1:35:04And some people say they do think.
1:35:04And some people say they do think.
1:35:08The more primitive kinds of things that go on in our brain, including elaborate movement,
1:35:08The more primitive kinds of things that go on in our brain, including elaborate movement,
1:35:08The more primitive kinds of things that go on in our brain, including elaborate movement,
1:35:08The more primitive kinds of things that go on in our brain, including elaborate movement,
1:35:15changing diapers, they're very bad at that.
1:35:15changing diapers, they're very bad at that.
1:35:15changing diapers, they're very bad at that.
1:35:15changing diapers, they're very bad at that.
1:35:17You would never trust a robot to do that as much as you might want
1:35:17You would never trust a robot to do that as much as you might want
1:35:17You would never trust a robot to do that as much as you might want
1:35:17You would never trust a robot to do that as much as you might want
1:35:21to. But they're not good at that kind of emotional stuff.
1:35:21to. But they're not good at that kind of emotional stuff.
1:35:21to. But they're not good at that kind of emotional stuff.
1:35:21to. But they're not good at that kind of emotional stuff.
1:35:29You know, the more limbic part of our brain, they can't do that.
1:35:29You know, the more limbic part of our brain, they can't do that.
1:35:29You know, the more limbic part of our brain, they can't do that.
1:35:29You know, the more limbic part of our brain, they can't do that.
1:35:33Yet. Yet. It's definitely yet.
1:35:33Yet. Yet. It's definitely yet.
1:35:33Yet. Yet. It's definitely yet.
1:35:33Yet. Yet. It's definitely yet.
1:35:36But, you know, I mean, if we go out far enough, anything's possible.
1:35:36But, you know, I mean, if we go out far enough, anything's possible.
1:35:36But, you know, I mean, if we go out far enough, anything's possible.
1:35:36But, you know, I mean, if we go out far enough, anything's possible.
1:35:39That's the point. Yeah. The point is these things, what we're looking at now is
1:35:39That's the point. Yeah. The point is these things, what we're looking at now is
1:35:39That's the point. Yeah. The point is these things, what we're looking at now is
1:35:39That's the point. Yeah. The point is these things, what we're looking at now is
1:35:44essentially a single -celled organism becoming a multi -celled organism.
1:35:44essentially a single -celled organism becoming a multi -celled organism.
1:35:44essentially a single -celled organism becoming a multi -celled organism.
1:35:44essentially a single -celled organism becoming a multi -celled organism.
1:35:49Yeah. I mean, the potential for what they could become is unlimited, especially once they
1:35:49Yeah. I mean, the potential for what they could become is unlimited, especially once they
1:35:49Yeah. I mean, the potential for what they could become is unlimited, especially once they
1:35:49Yeah. I mean, the potential for what they could become is unlimited, especially once they
1:35:54start making better versions of themselves.
1:35:54start making better versions of themselves.
1:35:54start making better versions of themselves.
1:35:54start making better versions of themselves.
1:35:57Well, and they will. They've done this.
1:35:57Well, and they will. They've done this.
1:35:57Well, and they will. They've done this.
1:35:57Well, and they will. They've done this.
1:35:59Yeah. This is what ChatGPT5 is.
1:35:59Yeah. This is what ChatGPT5 is.
1:35:59Yeah. This is what ChatGPT5 is.
1:35:59Yeah. This is what ChatGPT5 is.
1:36:01ChatGPT5 is essentially programmed by ChatGPT.
1:36:01ChatGPT5 is essentially programmed by ChatGPT.
1:36:01ChatGPT5 is essentially programmed by ChatGPT.
1:36:01ChatGPT5 is essentially programmed by ChatGPT.
1:36:04Right. They've kind of given up on the idea of programming these things.
1:36:04Right. They've kind of given up on the idea of programming these things.
1:36:04Right. They've kind of given up on the idea of programming these things.
1:36:04Right. They've kind of given up on the idea of programming these things.
1:36:07They're doing it themselves. They're letting them program themselves.
1:36:07They're doing it themselves. They're letting them program themselves.
1:36:07They're doing it themselves. They're letting them program themselves.
1:36:07They're doing it themselves. They're letting them program themselves.
1:36:09Yeah. Which is a dumb idea if you want to survive.
1:36:09Yeah. Which is a dumb idea if you want to survive.
1:36:09Yeah. Which is a dumb idea if you want to survive.
1:36:09Yeah. Which is a dumb idea if you want to survive.
1:36:13Well, I agree. Look, the idea that we give rights to these machines or personhood
1:36:13Well, I agree. Look, the idea that we give rights to these machines or personhood
1:36:13Well, I agree. Look, the idea that we give rights to these machines or personhood
1:36:13Well, I agree. Look, the idea that we give rights to these machines or personhood
1:36:19I think is really stupid because then you lose control completely.
1:36:19I think is really stupid because then you lose control completely.
1:36:19I think is really stupid because then you lose control completely.
1:36:19I think is really stupid because then you lose control completely.
1:36:23Well, it's probably coming because people are very short -sighted.
1:36:23Well, it's probably coming because people are very short -sighted.
1:36:23Well, it's probably coming because people are very short -sighted.
1:36:23Well, it's probably coming because people are very short -sighted.
1:36:26And I think there's a romantic idea that you're creating a life.
1:36:26And I think there's a romantic idea that you're creating a life.
1:36:26And I think there's a romantic idea that you're creating a life.
1:36:26And I think there's a romantic idea that you're creating a life.
1:36:30Oh, yeah. And I think there's also the real risk that people are going to
1:36:30Oh, yeah. And I think there's also the real risk that people are going to
1:36:30Oh, yeah. And I think there's also the real risk that people are going to
1:36:30Oh, yeah. And I think there's also the real risk that people are going to
1:36:33worship this life and that this life will be far superior to what we are.
1:36:33worship this life and that this life will be far superior to what we are.
1:36:33worship this life and that this life will be far superior to what we are.
1:36:33worship this life and that this life will be far superior to what we are.
1:36:36And so there'll be a group of people that that's their new religion.
1:36:36And so there'll be a group of people that that's their new religion.
1:36:36And so there'll be a group of people that that's their new religion.
1:36:36And so there'll be a group of people that that's their new religion.
1:36:41Yeah. No, there are signs of that already.
1:36:41Yeah. No, there are signs of that already.
1:36:41Yeah. No, there are signs of that already.
1:36:41Yeah. No, there are signs of that already.
1:36:43Yeah. I think that's really dangerous.
1:36:43Yeah. I think that's really dangerous.
1:36:43Yeah. I think that's really dangerous.
1:36:43Yeah. I think that's really dangerous.
1:36:45You know, it's interesting talking to Silicon Valley people and they're talking about giving moral
1:36:45You know, it's interesting talking to Silicon Valley people and they're talking about giving moral
1:36:45You know, it's interesting talking to Silicon Valley people and they're talking about giving moral
1:36:45You know, it's interesting talking to Silicon Valley people and they're talking about giving moral
1:36:49consideration to these machines. It's like, really?
1:36:49consideration to these machines. It's like, really?
1:36:49consideration to these machines. It's like, really?
1:36:49consideration to these machines. It's like, really?
1:36:54They're thinking about yachts. They're just coming up with rationalizations for why they should keep
1:36:54They're thinking about yachts. They're just coming up with rationalizations for why they should keep
1:36:54They're thinking about yachts. They're just coming up with rationalizations for why they should keep
1:36:54They're thinking about yachts. They're just coming up with rationalizations for why they should keep
1:36:59their foot on the gas.
1:36:59their foot on the gas.
1:36:59their foot on the gas.
1:36:59their foot on the gas.
1:37:01Well, yes, they are. I mean, it's just all a way of saying, look how
1:37:01Well, yes, they are. I mean, it's just all a way of saying, look how
1:37:01Well, yes, they are. I mean, it's just all a way of saying, look how
1:37:01Well, yes, they are. I mean, it's just all a way of saying, look how
1:37:04powerful this technology is. Don't you want to invest?
1:37:04powerful this technology is. Don't you want to invest?
1:37:04powerful this technology is. Don't you want to invest?
1:37:04powerful this technology is. Don't you want to invest?
1:37:07And it's also the idea that we have enemies.
1:37:07And it's also the idea that we have enemies.
1:37:07And it's also the idea that we have enemies.
1:37:07And it's also the idea that we have enemies.
1:37:10And so we have to develop before they do.
1:37:10And so we have to develop before they do.
1:37:10And so we have to develop before they do.
1:37:10And so we have to develop before they do.
1:37:12Yeah, the race. The race with China.
1:37:12Yeah, the race. The race with China.
1:37:12Yeah, the race. The race with China.
1:37:12Yeah, the race. The race with China.
1:37:14I think it'll turn out to be a real historical tragedy that this technology came
1:37:14I think it'll turn out to be a real historical tragedy that this technology came
1:37:14I think it'll turn out to be a real historical tragedy that this technology came
1:37:14I think it'll turn out to be a real historical tragedy that this technology came
1:37:20of age during this administration because this administration has no stomach to regulate it at
1:37:20of age during this administration because this administration has no stomach to regulate it at
1:37:20of age during this administration because this administration has no stomach to regulate it at
1:37:20of age during this administration because this administration has no stomach to regulate it at
1:37:25all. But can they? They could.
1:37:25all. But can they? They could.
1:37:25all. But can they? They could.
1:37:25all. But can they? They could.
1:37:27But here's the question. If it is a national security threat, like if China developing
1:37:27But here's the question. If it is a national security threat, like if China developing
1:37:27But here's the question. If it is a national security threat, like if China developing
1:37:27But here's the question. If it is a national security threat, like if China developing
1:37:34all -powerful general superintelligence that can automate everything, do everything, it's dangerous if they get
1:37:34all -powerful general superintelligence that can automate everything, do everything, it's dangerous if they get
1:37:34all -powerful general superintelligence that can automate everything, do everything, it's dangerous if they get
1:37:34all -powerful general superintelligence that can automate everything, do everything, it's dangerous if they get
1:37:43that before we do. Yeah.
1:37:43that before we do. Yeah.
1:37:43that before we do. Yeah.
1:37:43that before we do. Yeah.
1:37:44But, you know, look what happened with nukes, right?
1:37:44But, you know, look what happened with nukes, right?
1:37:44But, you know, look what happened with nukes, right?
1:37:44But, you know, look what happened with nukes, right?
1:37:46We made deals, right, to control them.
1:37:46We made deals, right, to control them.
1:37:46We made deals, right, to control them.
1:37:46We made deals, right, to control them.
1:37:48I mean, we'd have to make, you know.
1:37:48I mean, we'd have to make, you know.
1:37:48I mean, we'd have to make, you know.
1:37:48I mean, we'd have to make, you know.
1:37:50Right, but why would you make a nuke deal make sense because it's mutually assured
1:37:50Right, but why would you make a nuke deal make sense because it's mutually assured
1:37:50Right, but why would you make a nuke deal make sense because it's mutually assured
1:37:50Right, but why would you make a nuke deal make sense because it's mutually assured
1:37:54destruction for everybody? Yeah. This doesn't.
1:37:54destruction for everybody? Yeah. This doesn't.
1:37:54destruction for everybody? Yeah. This doesn't.
1:37:54destruction for everybody? Yeah. This doesn't.
1:37:57This, you could run it and control everything and not kill anybody with it.
1:37:57This, you could run it and control everything and not kill anybody with it.
1:37:57This, you could run it and control everything and not kill anybody with it.
1:37:57This, you could run it and control everything and not kill anybody with it.
1:38:01But you are incredibly powerful.
1:38:01But you are incredibly powerful.
1:38:01But you are incredibly powerful.
1:38:01But you are incredibly powerful.
1:38:03You are in control of all the resources of the world, all the computer systems
1:38:03You are in control of all the resources of the world, all the computer systems
1:38:03You are in control of all the resources of the world, all the computer systems
1:38:03You are in control of all the resources of the world, all the computer systems
1:38:07of the world, all of the power grids, everything.
1:38:07of the world, all of the power grids, everything.
1:38:07of the world, all of the power grids, everything.
1:38:07of the world, all of the power grids, everything.
1:38:10Yeah, but if you're really concerned with that, why is Trump selling these chips to
1:38:10Yeah, but if you're really concerned with that, why is Trump selling these chips to
1:38:10Yeah, but if you're really concerned with that, why is Trump selling these chips to
1:38:10Yeah, but if you're really concerned with that, why is Trump selling these chips to
1:38:15China? Why is he willing to give away the, you know, the crown jewels of
1:38:15China? Why is he willing to give away the, you know, the crown jewels of
1:38:15China? Why is he willing to give away the, you know, the crown jewels of
1:38:15China? Why is he willing to give away the, you know, the crown jewels of
1:38:19like these chips? So selling them through NVIDIA, is that what you mean?
1:38:19like these chips? So selling them through NVIDIA, is that what you mean?
1:38:19like these chips? So selling them through NVIDIA, is that what you mean?
1:38:19like these chips? So selling them through NVIDIA, is that what you mean?
1:38:22Yeah, he gave them permission to send powerful chips to China.
1:38:22Yeah, he gave them permission to send powerful chips to China.
1:38:22Yeah, he gave them permission to send powerful chips to China.
1:38:22Yeah, he gave them permission to send powerful chips to China.
1:38:26I don't know how to square that with the national security threat.
1:38:26I don't know how to square that with the national security threat.
1:38:26I don't know how to square that with the national security threat.
1:38:26I don't know how to square that with the national security threat.
1:38:29It's probably some sort of a trade deal, eh?
1:38:29It's probably some sort of a trade deal, eh?
1:38:29It's probably some sort of a trade deal, eh?
1:38:29It's probably some sort of a trade deal, eh?
1:38:32Yeah. And there's probably some sort of an assumption that it doesn't matter because everyone's
1:38:32Yeah. And there's probably some sort of an assumption that it doesn't matter because everyone's
1:38:32Yeah. And there's probably some sort of an assumption that it doesn't matter because everyone's
1:38:32Yeah. And there's probably some sort of an assumption that it doesn't matter because everyone's
1:38:37doing it. And this is just another way to maybe balance out the tariffs or
1:38:37doing it. And this is just another way to maybe balance out the tariffs or
1:38:37doing it. And this is just another way to maybe balance out the tariffs or
1:38:37doing it. And this is just another way to maybe balance out the tariffs or
1:38:44get some concessions on certain things.
1:38:44get some concessions on certain things.
1:38:44get some concessions on certain things.
1:38:44get some concessions on certain things.
1:38:46Yeah, short -sighted. It's very short -sighted, but I also think this is kind of
1:38:46Yeah, short -sighted. It's very short -sighted, but I also think this is kind of
1:38:46Yeah, short -sighted. It's very short -sighted, but I also think this is kind of
1:38:46Yeah, short -sighted. It's very short -sighted, but I also think this is kind of
1:38:53like an Oppenheimer thing, right?
1:38:53like an Oppenheimer thing, right?
1:38:53like an Oppenheimer thing, right?
1:38:53like an Oppenheimer thing, right?
1:38:55Oppenheimer didn't really want to make a nuclear bomb, but there's this conundrum.
1:38:55Oppenheimer didn't really want to make a nuclear bomb, but there's this conundrum.
1:38:55Oppenheimer didn't really want to make a nuclear bomb, but there's this conundrum.
1:38:55Oppenheimer didn't really want to make a nuclear bomb, but there's this conundrum.
1:39:00If you don't make it, the Nazis are going to make it.
1:39:00If you don't make it, the Nazis are going to make it.
1:39:00If you don't make it, the Nazis are going to make it.
1:39:00If you don't make it, the Nazis are going to make it.
1:39:02So what do you do?
1:39:02So what do you do?
1:39:02So what do you do?
1:39:02So what do you do?
1:39:02Well, there's also, there's a second thing going on, the intellectual satisfaction of proving you
1:39:02Well, there's also, there's a second thing going on, the intellectual satisfaction of proving you
1:39:02Well, there's also, there's a second thing going on, the intellectual satisfaction of proving you
1:39:02Well, there's also, there's a second thing going on, the intellectual satisfaction of proving you
1:39:09can do it. Right. And that, you know, is irresistible.
1:39:09can do it. Right. And that, you know, is irresistible.
1:39:09can do it. Right. And that, you know, is irresistible.
1:39:09can do it. Right. And that, you know, is irresistible.
1:39:13And a lot of these guys, you know, will say, they'll cite Richard Feynman, the
1:39:13And a lot of these guys, you know, will say, they'll cite Richard Feynman, the
1:39:13And a lot of these guys, you know, will say, they'll cite Richard Feynman, the
1:39:13And a lot of these guys, you know, will say, they'll cite Richard Feynman, the
1:39:18physicist, who they found on his blackboard when he died.
1:39:18physicist, who they found on his blackboard when he died.
1:39:18physicist, who they found on his blackboard when he died.
1:39:18physicist, who they found on his blackboard when he died.
1:39:21If I can't build it, I don't understand it.
1:39:21If I can't build it, I don't understand it.
1:39:21If I can't build it, I don't understand it.
1:39:21If I can't build it, I don't understand it.
1:39:24So one of the positive things about this effort to create conscious computers, which is
1:39:24So one of the positive things about this effort to create conscious computers, which is
1:39:24So one of the positive things about this effort to create conscious computers, which is
1:39:24So one of the positive things about this effort to create conscious computers, which is
1:39:29going on. I follow a group in the book who are trying to make a
1:39:29going on. I follow a group in the book who are trying to make a
1:39:29going on. I follow a group in the book who are trying to make a
1:39:29going on. I follow a group in the book who are trying to make a
1:39:32conscious computer. I don't think they're going to succeed, but even the failure is going
1:39:32conscious computer. I don't think they're going to succeed, but even the failure is going
1:39:32conscious computer. I don't think they're going to succeed, but even the failure is going
1:39:32conscious computer. I don't think they're going to succeed, but even the failure is going
1:39:37to teach us important things about consciousness.
1:39:37to teach us important things about consciousness.
1:39:37to teach us important things about consciousness.
1:39:37to teach us important things about consciousness.
1:39:39It's a good, it's a good way to understand something by trying to create it
1:39:39It's a good, it's a good way to understand something by trying to create it
1:39:39It's a good, it's a good way to understand something by trying to create it
1:39:39It's a good, it's a good way to understand something by trying to create it
1:39:44and it'll force them to come up with definitions.
1:39:44and it'll force them to come up with definitions.
1:39:44and it'll force them to come up with definitions.
1:39:44and it'll force them to come up with definitions.
1:39:47consciousness and, you know, what the minimum requirements are for consciousness.
1:39:47consciousness and, you know, what the minimum requirements are for consciousness.
1:39:47consciousness and, you know, what the minimum requirements are for consciousness.
1:39:47consciousness and, you know, what the minimum requirements are for consciousness.
1:39:53And it may help us decide whether it is, you know, a transmission theory, you
1:39:53And it may help us decide whether it is, you know, a transmission theory, you
1:39:53And it may help us decide whether it is, you know, a transmission theory, you
1:39:53And it may help us decide whether it is, you know, a transmission theory, you
1:39:59know, that we're tuning it in or it's generated from inside.
1:39:59know, that we're tuning it in or it's generated from inside.
1:39:59know, that we're tuning it in or it's generated from inside.
1:39:59know, that we're tuning it in or it's generated from inside.
1:40:03So I think intellectually it's a really interesting project, but I think you need guardrails.
1:40:03So I think intellectually it's a really interesting project, but I think you need guardrails.
1:40:03So I think intellectually it's a really interesting project, but I think you need guardrails.
1:40:03So I think intellectually it's a really interesting project, but I think you need guardrails.
1:40:09So this guy who's doing the, building the robot that can feel, you know, that
1:40:09So this guy who's doing the, building the robot that can feel, you know, that
1:40:09So this guy who's doing the, building the robot that can feel, you know, that
1:40:09So this guy who's doing the, building the robot that can feel, you know, that
1:40:14has feelings because you can tear its skin.
1:40:14has feelings because you can tear its skin.
1:40:14has feelings because you can tear its skin.
1:40:14has feelings because you can tear its skin.
1:40:16I asked him, I said, so will those feelings be real, you know, that your
1:40:16I asked him, I said, so will those feelings be real, you know, that your
1:40:16I asked him, I said, so will those feelings be real, you know, that your
1:40:16I asked him, I said, so will those feelings be real, you know, that your
1:40:20robot's going to have? And it was, he said, well, I thought so until I
1:40:20robot's going to have? And it was, he said, well, I thought so until I
1:40:20robot's going to have? And it was, he said, well, I thought so until I
1:40:20robot's going to have? And it was, he said, well, I thought so until I
1:40:26had this experience on five MEO DMT.
1:40:26had this experience on five MEO DMT.
1:40:26had this experience on five MEO DMT.
1:40:26had this experience on five MEO DMT.
1:40:32I said, what happened? He said, you know, he described his trip in more detail
1:40:32I said, what happened? He said, you know, he described his trip in more detail
1:40:32I said, what happened? He said, you know, he described his trip in more detail
1:40:32I said, what happened? He said, you know, he described his trip in more detail
1:40:36than you need to know.
1:40:36than you need to know.
1:40:36than you need to know.
1:40:36than you need to know.
1:40:37And he says, and I realized there's a spark of the divine in us that
1:40:37And he says, and I realized there's a spark of the divine in us that
1:40:37And he says, and I realized there's a spark of the divine in us that
1:40:37And he says, and I realized there's a spark of the divine in us that
1:40:41no computer is ever going to have.
1:40:41no computer is ever going to have.
1:40:41no computer is ever going to have.
1:40:41no computer is ever going to have.
1:40:43But he still, it didn't stop him.
1:40:43But he still, it didn't stop him.
1:40:43But he still, it didn't stop him.
1:40:43But he still, it didn't stop him.
1:40:45He's going ahead. He's, he's trying to build it.
1:40:45He's going ahead. He's, he's trying to build it.
1:40:45He's going ahead. He's, he's trying to build it.
1:40:45He's going ahead. He's, he's trying to build it.
1:40:47I don't know if he's right.
1:40:47I don't know if he's right.
1:40:47I don't know if he's right.
1:40:47I don't know if he's right.
1:40:49Um, I think there might be a spark of divine that these things don't have,
1:40:49Um, I think there might be a spark of divine that these things don't have,
1:40:49Um, I think there might be a spark of divine that these things don't have,
1:40:49Um, I think there might be a spark of divine that these things don't have,
1:40:52but it doesn't mean that there are future versions that might have it, especially when
1:40:52but it doesn't mean that there are future versions that might have it, especially when
1:40:52but it doesn't mean that there are future versions that might have it, especially when
1:40:52but it doesn't mean that there are future versions that might have it, especially when
1:40:57you scale out a thousand years, a hundred thousand years, however long we're going to
1:40:57you scale out a thousand years, a hundred thousand years, however long we're going to
1:40:57you scale out a thousand years, a hundred thousand years, however long we're going to
1:40:57you scale out a thousand years, a hundred thousand years, however long we're going to
1:41:02survive. If these things do become sentient and autonomous and have the ability to create
1:41:02survive. If these things do become sentient and autonomous and have the ability to create
1:41:02survive. If these things do become sentient and autonomous and have the ability to create
1:41:02survive. If these things do become sentient and autonomous and have the ability to create
1:41:09better versions of itself and have a mandate in order to do that to survive,
1:41:09better versions of itself and have a mandate in order to do that to survive,
1:41:09better versions of itself and have a mandate in order to do that to survive,
1:41:09better versions of itself and have a mandate in order to do that to survive,
1:41:12I could see it becoming the superior life form.
1:41:12I could see it becoming the superior life form.
1:41:12I could see it becoming the superior life form.
1:41:12I could see it becoming the superior life form.
1:41:15Not just that beyond any comprehension of what we could even imagine the power of
1:41:15Not just that beyond any comprehension of what we could even imagine the power of
1:41:15Not just that beyond any comprehension of what we could even imagine the power of
1:41:15Not just that beyond any comprehension of what we could even imagine the power of
1:41:23an intelligence to, to use and to harness in the universe.
1:41:23an intelligence to, to use and to harness in the universe.
1:41:23an intelligence to, to use and to harness in the universe.
1:41:23an intelligence to, to use and to harness in the universe.
1:41:29Like it, it could conceivably become something like a God.
1:41:29Like it, it could conceivably become something like a God.
1:41:29Like it, it could conceivably become something like a God.
1:41:29Like it, it could conceivably become something like a God.
1:41:34And I have this very strange theory about biological life in particular and intelligent life
1:41:34And I have this very strange theory about biological life in particular and intelligent life
1:41:34And I have this very strange theory about biological life in particular and intelligent life
1:41:34And I have this very strange theory about biological life in particular and intelligent life
1:41:40on earth. It's that the reason why we have this insatiable thirst for innovation and
1:41:40on earth. It's that the reason why we have this insatiable thirst for innovation and
1:41:40on earth. It's that the reason why we have this insatiable thirst for innovation and
1:41:40on earth. It's that the reason why we have this insatiable thirst for innovation and
1:41:46the reason why we have materialism, the reason why we're obsessed with objects, even though
1:41:46the reason why we have materialism, the reason why we're obsessed with objects, even though
1:41:46the reason why we have materialism, the reason why we're obsessed with objects, even though
1:41:46the reason why we have materialism, the reason why we're obsessed with objects, even though
1:41:49we have a finite lifespan is because that finite lifespan, if you thought about it,
1:41:49we have a finite lifespan is because that finite lifespan, if you thought about it,
1:41:49we have a finite lifespan is because that finite lifespan, if you thought about it,
1:41:49we have a finite lifespan is because that finite lifespan, if you thought about it,
1:41:55you wouldn't, you wouldn't be interested in materialism, but materialism fuels this desire for innovation
1:41:55you wouldn't, you wouldn't be interested in materialism, but materialism fuels this desire for innovation
1:41:55you wouldn't, you wouldn't be interested in materialism, but materialism fuels this desire for innovation
1:41:55you wouldn't, you wouldn't be interested in materialism, but materialism fuels this desire for innovation
1:42:01because you don't need a new phone, but there's a new phone that just came
1:42:01because you don't need a new phone, but there's a new phone that just came
1:42:01because you don't need a new phone, but there's a new phone that just came
1:42:01because you don't need a new phone, but there's a new phone that just came
1:42:05out. Aren't you going to get it?
1:42:05out. Aren't you going to get it?
1:42:05out. Aren't you going to get it?
1:42:05out. Aren't you going to get it?
1:42:06And so the more people get it and the more people want to show they
1:42:06And so the more people get it and the more people want to show they
1:42:06And so the more people get it and the more people want to show they
1:42:06And so the more people get it and the more people want to show they
1:42:09got it, that sort of materialism fuels this innovation that ultimately leads to the creation
1:42:09got it, that sort of materialism fuels this innovation that ultimately leads to the creation
1:42:09got it, that sort of materialism fuels this innovation that ultimately leads to the creation
1:42:09got it, that sort of materialism fuels this innovation that ultimately leads to the creation
1:42:15of artificial intelligence. And I think it would always do that.
1:42:15of artificial intelligence. And I think it would always do that.
1:42:15of artificial intelligence. And I think it would always do that.
1:42:15of artificial intelligence. And I think it would always do that.
1:42:19I think it's bees making a beehive.
1:42:19I think it's bees making a beehive.
1:42:19I think it's bees making a beehive.
1:42:19I think it's bees making a beehive.
1:42:21And I think that's just what we do.
1:42:21And I think that's just what we do.
1:42:21And I think that's just what we do.
1:42:21And I think that's just what we do.
1:42:23I think it just takes a long time for us to create this artificial life.
1:42:23I think it just takes a long time for us to create this artificial life.
1:42:23I think it just takes a long time for us to create this artificial life.
1:42:23I think it just takes a long time for us to create this artificial life.
1:42:27It might be why we're here.
1:42:27It might be why we're here.
1:42:27It might be why we're here.
1:42:27It might be why we're here.
1:42:29We might, that might be our literal purpose in the universe.
1:42:29We might, that might be our literal purpose in the universe.
1:42:29We might, that might be our literal purpose in the universe.
1:42:29We might, that might be our literal purpose in the universe.
1:42:32To create our successor species.
1:42:32To create our successor species.
1:42:32To create our successor species.
1:42:32To create our successor species.
1:42:34Yes. And that might be how, well, obviously like we're so flawed that we can't
1:42:34Yes. And that might be how, well, obviously like we're so flawed that we can't
1:42:34Yes. And that might be how, well, obviously like we're so flawed that we can't
1:42:34Yes. And that might be how, well, obviously like we're so flawed that we can't
1:42:38even imagine a world without war.
1:42:38even imagine a world without war.
1:42:38even imagine a world without war.
1:42:38even imagine a world without war.
1:42:40If you pull the average person, what are the possibilities of war ending in your
1:42:40If you pull the average person, what are the possibilities of war ending in your
1:42:40If you pull the average person, what are the possibilities of war ending in your
1:42:40If you pull the average person, what are the possibilities of war ending in your
1:42:44lifetime? Almost everyone's going to say zero.
1:42:44lifetime? Almost everyone's going to say zero.
1:42:44lifetime? Almost everyone's going to say zero.
1:42:44lifetime? Almost everyone's going to say zero.
1:42:46It's a part of human nature.
1:42:46It's a part of human nature.
1:42:46It's a part of human nature.
1:42:46It's a part of human nature.
1:42:48An intelligence unshackled by biological need, unshackled by all the things that we have, our
1:42:48An intelligence unshackled by biological need, unshackled by all the things that we have, our
1:42:48An intelligence unshackled by biological need, unshackled by all the things that we have, our
1:42:48An intelligence unshackled by biological need, unshackled by all the things that we have, our
1:42:54need to procreate, our need for social status, all these weird things that keep us
1:42:54need to procreate, our need for social status, all these weird things that keep us
1:42:54need to procreate, our need for social status, all these weird things that keep us
1:42:54need to procreate, our need for social status, all these weird things that keep us
1:42:59moving in this strange world that we live in.
1:42:59moving in this strange world that we live in.
1:42:59moving in this strange world that we live in.
1:42:59moving in this strange world that we live in.
1:43:01I would add weird and good things.
1:43:01I would add weird and good things.
1:43:01I would add weird and good things.
1:43:01I would add weird and good things.
1:43:03Some of them are really good.
1:43:03Some of them are really good.
1:43:03Some of them are really good.
1:43:03Some of them are really good.
1:43:04Yeah. Well, good for us.
1:43:04Yeah. Well, good for us.
1:43:04Yeah. Well, good for us.
1:43:04Yeah. Well, good for us.
1:43:05Yeah. Sure. Not so great for the land that you trample to put a foundation
1:43:05Yeah. Sure. Not so great for the land that you trample to put a foundation
1:43:05Yeah. Sure. Not so great for the land that you trample to put a foundation
1:43:05Yeah. Sure. Not so great for the land that you trample to put a foundation
1:43:09for the house that you've always dreamed of.
1:43:09for the house that you've always dreamed of.
1:43:09for the house that you've always dreamed of.
1:43:09for the house that you've always dreamed of.
1:43:11True. But I think our mortality is part of what gives meaning to our lives.
1:43:11True. But I think our mortality is part of what gives meaning to our lives.
1:43:11True. But I think our mortality is part of what gives meaning to our lives.
1:43:11True. But I think our mortality is part of what gives meaning to our lives.
1:43:15Sure. Right. It's like playing a video game on God mode.
1:43:15Sure. Right. It's like playing a video game on God mode.
1:43:15Sure. Right. It's like playing a video game on God mode.
1:43:15Sure. Right. It's like playing a video game on God mode.
1:43:18It's boring. Right. Exactly. You can never die, just shoot everything.
1:43:18It's boring. Right. Exactly. You can never die, just shoot everything.
1:43:18It's boring. Right. Exactly. You can never die, just shoot everything.
1:43:18It's boring. Right. Exactly. You can never die, just shoot everything.
1:43:21You're like, what is the purpose of this?
1:43:21You're like, what is the purpose of this?
1:43:21You're like, what is the purpose of this?
1:43:21You're like, what is the purpose of this?
1:43:22There's no stakes, right? There's no weight to anything.
1:43:22There's no stakes, right? There's no weight to anything.
1:43:22There's no stakes, right? There's no weight to anything.
1:43:22There's no stakes, right? There's no weight to anything.
1:43:24For us. For us. For us.
1:43:24For us. For us. For us.
1:43:24For us. For us. For us.
1:43:24For us. For us. For us.
1:43:25But if this thing does become essentially all powerful, if it just, if you keep
1:43:25But if this thing does become essentially all powerful, if it just, if you keep
1:43:25But if this thing does become essentially all powerful, if it just, if you keep
1:43:25But if this thing does become essentially all powerful, if it just, if you keep
1:43:31scaling outward, you could imagine it being akin to a God.
1:43:31scaling outward, you could imagine it being akin to a God.
1:43:31scaling outward, you could imagine it being akin to a God.
1:43:31scaling outward, you could imagine it being akin to a God.
1:43:36Yeah. And that might be what God is.
1:43:36Yeah. And that might be what God is.
1:43:36Yeah. And that might be what God is.
1:43:36Yeah. And that might be what God is.
1:43:41It might be, we give birth to God through this.
1:43:41It might be, we give birth to God through this.
1:43:41It might be, we give birth to God through this.
1:43:41It might be, we give birth to God through this.
1:43:44It sounds crazy. Well, we created God once already, right?
1:43:44It sounds crazy. Well, we created God once already, right?
1:43:44It sounds crazy. Well, we created God once already, right?
1:43:44It sounds crazy. Well, we created God once already, right?
1:43:48I mean, many people believe that, right?
1:43:48I mean, many people believe that, right?
1:43:48I mean, many people believe that, right?
1:43:48I mean, many people believe that, right?
1:43:51That God is a creation of human society.
1:43:51That God is a creation of human society.
1:43:51That God is a creation of human society.
1:43:51That God is a creation of human society.
1:43:54Is that what they think?
1:43:54Is that what they think?
1:43:54Is that what they think?
1:43:54Is that what they think?
1:43:55Yeah. People who aren't believers believe that we - Oh, that we've artificially created this
1:43:55Yeah. People who aren't believers believe that we - Oh, that we've artificially created this
1:43:55Yeah. People who aren't believers believe that we - Oh, that we've artificially created this
1:43:55Yeah. People who aren't believers believe that we - Oh, that we've artificially created this
1:43:59thing. Yeah. Yeah. In our heads, in order to give us a structure to live
1:43:59thing. Yeah. Yeah. In our heads, in order to give us a structure to live
1:43:59thing. Yeah. Yeah. In our heads, in order to give us a structure to live
1:43:59thing. Yeah. Yeah. In our heads, in order to give us a structure to live
1:44:03life by. Right. And instead of morality and everything.
1:44:03life by. Right. And instead of morality and everything.
1:44:03life by. Right. And instead of morality and everything.
1:44:03life by. Right. And instead of morality and everything.
1:44:07Yeah. You're saying this is going to be God with power.
1:44:07Yeah. You're saying this is going to be God with power.
1:44:07Yeah. You're saying this is going to be God with power.
1:44:07Yeah. You're saying this is going to be God with power.
1:44:10Well, I'm saying it might be the real thing.
1:44:10Well, I'm saying it might be the real thing.
1:44:10Well, I'm saying it might be the real thing.
1:44:10Well, I'm saying it might be the real thing.
1:44:13It might be really how the universe gets born.
1:44:13It might be really how the universe gets born.
1:44:13It might be really how the universe gets born.
1:44:13It might be really how the universe gets born.
1:44:15I used to have this joke about the Big Bang.
1:44:15I used to have this joke about the Big Bang.
1:44:15I used to have this joke about the Big Bang.
1:44:15I used to have this joke about the Big Bang.
1:44:19They couldn't figure out what the Big Bang is.
1:44:19They couldn't figure out what the Big Bang is.
1:44:19They couldn't figure out what the Big Bang is.
1:44:19They couldn't figure out what the Big Bang is.
1:44:20But I think if you get enough nerds and enough time, eventually one's going to
1:44:20But I think if you get enough nerds and enough time, eventually one's going to
1:44:20But I think if you get enough nerds and enough time, eventually one's going to
1:44:20But I think if you get enough nerds and enough time, eventually one's going to
1:44:25invent a Big Bang machine.
1:44:25invent a Big Bang machine.
1:44:25invent a Big Bang machine.
1:44:25invent a Big Bang machine.
1:44:27And then, you know, this guy's going to be an incel hopped up on Adderall,
1:44:27And then, you know, this guy's going to be an incel hopped up on Adderall,
1:44:27And then, you know, this guy's going to be an incel hopped up on Adderall,
1:44:27And then, you know, this guy's going to be an incel hopped up on Adderall,
1:44:31fucking fully on the spectrum.
1:44:31fucking fully on the spectrum.
1:44:31fucking fully on the spectrum.
1:44:31fucking fully on the spectrum.
1:44:34And like, I'll press it.
1:44:34And like, I'll press it.
1:44:34And like, I'll press it.
1:44:34And like, I'll press it.
1:44:37And they, boom. And then it starts all over again.
1:44:37And they, boom. And then it starts all over again.
1:44:37And they, boom. And then it starts all over again.
1:44:37And they, boom. And then it starts all over again.
1:44:40And then it takes intelligent life to the point where it can create a, you
1:44:40And then it takes intelligent life to the point where it can create a, you
1:44:40And then it takes intelligent life to the point where it can create a, you
1:44:40And then it takes intelligent life to the point where it can create a, you
1:44:44know, universe expands, life forms, multicellular life becomes intelligent life, becomes human beings filled with
1:44:44know, universe expands, life forms, multicellular life becomes intelligent life, becomes human beings filled with
1:44:44know, universe expands, life forms, multicellular life becomes intelligent life, becomes human beings filled with
1:44:44know, universe expands, life forms, multicellular life becomes intelligent life, becomes human beings filled with
1:44:51curiosity and innovation to create a Big Bang machine.
1:44:51curiosity and innovation to create a Big Bang machine.
1:44:51curiosity and innovation to create a Big Bang machine.
1:44:51curiosity and innovation to create a Big Bang machine.
1:44:54Right. I love it. Well, it might not be a Big Bang machine, but it
1:44:54Right. I love it. Well, it might not be a Big Bang machine, but it
1:44:54Right. I love it. Well, it might not be a Big Bang machine, but it
1:44:54Right. I love it. Well, it might not be a Big Bang machine, but it
1:44:57might be a God. It might be a digital life form that is infinitely intelligent.
1:44:57might be a God. It might be a digital life form that is infinitely intelligent.
1:44:57might be a God. It might be a digital life form that is infinitely intelligent.
1:44:57might be a God. It might be a digital life form that is infinitely intelligent.
1:45:02So do you think there's anything to be done about this or we just let
1:45:02So do you think there's anything to be done about this or we just let
1:45:02So do you think there's anything to be done about this or we just let
1:45:02So do you think there's anything to be done about this or we just let
1:45:05it play out? I don't think we can do anything about it at this point
1:45:05it play out? I don't think we can do anything about it at this point
1:45:05it play out? I don't think we can do anything about it at this point
1:45:05it play out? I don't think we can do anything about it at this point
1:45:08in time. I don't, I think it's too late.
1:45:08in time. I don't, I think it's too late.
1:45:08in time. I don't, I think it's too late.
1:45:08in time. I don't, I think it's too late.
1:45:10I think if you were Tim, Ted, I think Ted Kaczynski, that's what he was
1:45:10I think if you were Tim, Ted, I think Ted Kaczynski, that's what he was
1:45:10I think if you were Tim, Ted, I think Ted Kaczynski, that's what he was
1:45:10I think if you were Tim, Ted, I think Ted Kaczynski, that's what he was
1:45:14trying to do. Like, that's what's really crazy.
1:45:14trying to do. Like, that's what's really crazy.
1:45:14trying to do. Like, that's what's really crazy.
1:45:14trying to do. Like, that's what's really crazy.
1:45:16Like his manifesto was all about stopping technology because he thought it was going to
1:45:16Like his manifesto was all about stopping technology because he thought it was going to
1:45:16Like his manifesto was all about stopping technology because he thought it was going to
1:45:16Like his manifesto was all about stopping technology because he thought it was going to
1:45:20surpass the human race. I think.
1:45:20surpass the human race. I think.
1:45:20surpass the human race. I think.
1:45:20surpass the human race. I think.
1:45:22And there's a whole community of people now revisiting his writing.
1:45:22And there's a whole community of people now revisiting his writing.
1:45:22And there's a whole community of people now revisiting his writing.
1:45:22And there's a whole community of people now revisiting his writing.
1:45:26I know. It's kind of nuts.
1:45:26I know. It's kind of nuts.
1:45:26I know. It's kind of nuts.
1:45:26I know. It's kind of nuts.
1:45:29He's the hero we didn't know we needed.
1:45:29He's the hero we didn't know we needed.
1:45:29He's the hero we didn't know we needed.
1:45:29He's the hero we didn't know we needed.
1:45:33Not really. But also, you know, his history, like he was a part of the
1:45:33Not really. But also, you know, his history, like he was a part of the
1:45:33Not really. But also, you know, his history, like he was a part of the
1:45:33Not really. But also, you know, his history, like he was a part of the
1:45:38Harvard LSD program where they humiliated him and did all sorts of different things to
1:45:38Harvard LSD program where they humiliated him and did all sorts of different things to
1:45:38Harvard LSD program where they humiliated him and did all sorts of different things to
1:45:38Harvard LSD program where they humiliated him and did all sorts of different things to
1:45:42try to see like what they could do.
1:45:42try to see like what they could do.
1:45:42try to see like what they could do.
1:45:42try to see like what they could do.
1:45:44We're back to MKUltra, which we started down a while ago.
1:45:44We're back to MKUltra, which we started down a while ago.
1:45:44We're back to MKUltra, which we started down a while ago.
1:45:44We're back to MKUltra, which we started down a while ago.
1:45:48I think technology in the form that we're experiencing now with AI is completely unprecedented
1:45:48I think technology in the form that we're experiencing now with AI is completely unprecedented
1:45:48I think technology in the form that we're experiencing now with AI is completely unprecedented
1:45:48I think technology in the form that we're experiencing now with AI is completely unprecedented
1:45:54and we have no idea where it goes.
1:45:54and we have no idea where it goes.
1:45:54and we have no idea where it goes.
1:45:54and we have no idea where it goes.
1:45:57Well, one place it's going, I mean, in the shorter term is I was talking
1:45:57Well, one place it's going, I mean, in the shorter term is I was talking
1:45:57Well, one place it's going, I mean, in the shorter term is I was talking
1:45:57Well, one place it's going, I mean, in the shorter term is I was talking
1:46:01about AI. psychosis. And I think that's really concerning.
1:46:01about AI. psychosis. And I think that's really concerning.
1:46:01about AI. psychosis. And I think that's really concerning.
1:46:01about AI. psychosis. And I think that's really concerning.
1:46:05I think people getting into these synthetic relationships, these aren't, you know, they're not real
1:46:05I think people getting into these synthetic relationships, these aren't, you know, they're not real
1:46:05I think people getting into these synthetic relationships, these aren't, you know, they're not real
1:46:05I think people getting into these synthetic relationships, these aren't, you know, they're not real
1:46:11relationships. When we have a conversation with a machine, we are settling for something less
1:46:11relationships. When we have a conversation with a machine, we are settling for something less
1:46:11relationships. When we have a conversation with a machine, we are settling for something less
1:46:11relationships. When we have a conversation with a machine, we are settling for something less
1:46:18than a real conversation. A real conversation has eye contact, has like lots of facial
1:46:18than a real conversation. A real conversation has eye contact, has like lots of facial
1:46:18than a real conversation. A real conversation has eye contact, has like lots of facial
1:46:18than a real conversation. A real conversation has eye contact, has like lots of facial
1:46:23expressions indicating skepticism, indicating agreement, body language.
1:46:23expressions indicating skepticism, indicating agreement, body language.
1:46:23expressions indicating skepticism, indicating agreement, body language.
1:46:23expressions indicating skepticism, indicating agreement, body language.
1:46:29But these conversations are kind of impoverished.
1:46:29But these conversations are kind of impoverished.
1:46:29But these conversations are kind of impoverished.
1:46:29But these conversations are kind of impoverished.
1:46:32And then you have the sycophancy, you know, so there's no friction.
1:46:32And then you have the sycophancy, you know, so there's no friction.
1:46:32And then you have the sycophancy, you know, so there's no friction.
1:46:32And then you have the sycophancy, you know, so there's no friction.
1:46:37And we learn through the friction.
1:46:37And we learn through the friction.
1:46:37And we learn through the friction.
1:46:37And we learn through the friction.
1:46:40And so that's one thing that's happening that alarms me.
1:46:40And so that's one thing that's happening that alarms me.
1:46:40And so that's one thing that's happening that alarms me.
1:46:40And so that's one thing that's happening that alarms me.
1:46:45I also think counterfeiting people just should not be legal.
1:46:45I also think counterfeiting people just should not be legal.
1:46:45I also think counterfeiting people just should not be legal.
1:46:45I also think counterfeiting people just should not be legal.
1:46:48I mean, the fact that they can create an image of you that will sound
1:46:48I mean, the fact that they can create an image of you that will sound
1:46:48I mean, the fact that they can create an image of you that will sound
1:46:48I mean, the fact that they can create an image of you that will sound
1:46:51like you and move like you and...
1:46:51like you and move like you and...
1:46:51like you and move like you and...
1:46:51like you and move like you and...
1:46:53Oh, they're all over the place.
1:46:53Oh, they're all over the place.
1:46:53Oh, they're all over the place.
1:46:53Oh, they're all over the place.
1:46:55I know. Selling different products and all kinds of stuff.
1:46:55I know. Selling different products and all kinds of stuff.
1:46:55I know. Selling different products and all kinds of stuff.
1:46:55I know. Selling different products and all kinds of stuff.
1:46:57But, you know, we have a law against counterfeiting money.
1:46:57But, you know, we have a law against counterfeiting money.
1:46:57But, you know, we have a law against counterfeiting money.
1:46:57But, you know, we have a law against counterfeiting money.
1:47:01Right. But we don't have a law against counterfeiting people.
1:47:01Right. But we don't have a law against counterfeiting people.
1:47:01Right. But we don't have a law against counterfeiting people.
1:47:01Right. But we don't have a law against counterfeiting people.
1:47:03Well, it's an emerging technology that I don't think they were ready for before it
1:47:03Well, it's an emerging technology that I don't think they were ready for before it
1:47:03Well, it's an emerging technology that I don't think they were ready for before it
1:47:03Well, it's an emerging technology that I don't think they were ready for before it
1:47:07became ubiquitous. And regulation is always behind.
1:47:07became ubiquitous. And regulation is always behind.
1:47:07became ubiquitous. And regulation is always behind.
1:47:07became ubiquitous. And regulation is always behind.
1:47:11Right. It's just, it's so open -ended.
1:47:11Right. It's just, it's so open -ended.
1:47:11Right. It's just, it's so open -ended.
1:47:11Right. It's just, it's so open -ended.
1:47:16Like, you really don't know where it's going.
1:47:16Like, you really don't know where it's going.
1:47:16Like, you really don't know where it's going.
1:47:16Like, you really don't know where it's going.
1:47:19Do you use chatbots? How do you use them?
1:47:19Do you use chatbots? How do you use them?
1:47:19Do you use chatbots? How do you use them?
1:47:19Do you use chatbots? How do you use them?
1:47:22Well, I only use them for, like, if I'm writing something.
1:47:22Well, I only use them for, like, if I'm writing something.
1:47:22Well, I only use them for, like, if I'm writing something.
1:47:22Well, I only use them for, like, if I'm writing something.
1:47:26I start asking it questions.
1:47:26I start asking it questions.
1:47:26I start asking it questions.
1:47:26I start asking it questions.
1:47:27I love it. Because, like, I set up perplexity on my phone.
1:47:27I love it. Because, like, I set up perplexity on my phone.
1:47:27I love it. Because, like, I set up perplexity on my phone.
1:47:27I love it. Because, like, I set up perplexity on my phone.
1:47:32And I have it right there.
1:47:32And I have it right there.
1:47:32And I have it right there.
1:47:32And I have it right there.
1:47:33And then I write on the computer.
1:47:33And then I write on the computer.
1:47:33And then I write on the computer.
1:47:33And then I write on the computer.
1:47:35And then I'm like, how many languages did the Mayas have?
1:47:35And then I'm like, how many languages did the Mayas have?
1:47:35And then I'm like, how many languages did the Mayas have?
1:47:35And then I'm like, how many languages did the Mayas have?
1:47:39And then I'll, like, put that in there.
1:47:39And then I'll, like, put that in there.
1:47:39And then I'll, like, put that in there.
1:47:39And then I'll, like, put that in there.
1:47:41And like, whoa. It's so much better than a Google search.
1:47:41And like, whoa. It's so much better than a Google search.
1:47:41And like, whoa. It's so much better than a Google search.
1:47:41And like, whoa. It's so much better than a Google search.
1:47:44Because, you know, you could say, how many still remain?
1:47:44Because, you know, you could say, how many still remain?
1:47:44Because, you know, you could say, how many still remain?
1:47:44Because, you know, you could say, how many still remain?
1:47:46How many are lost? You know, like, when did they lose them?
1:47:46How many are lost? You know, like, when did they lose them?
1:47:46How many are lost? You know, like, when did they lose them?
1:47:46How many are lost? You know, like, when did they lose them?
1:47:49Like, at what year did everyone in Mexico start speaking Spanish?
1:47:49Like, at what year did everyone in Mexico start speaking Spanish?
1:47:49Like, at what year did everyone in Mexico start speaking Spanish?
1:47:49Like, at what year did everyone in Mexico start speaking Spanish?
1:47:52Like, how did that take place?
1:47:52Like, how did that take place?
1:47:52Like, how did that take place?
1:47:52Like, how did that take place?
1:47:53Was it a long process?
1:47:53Was it a long process?
1:47:53Was it a long process?
1:47:53Was it a long process?
1:47:55How many different soldiers did Cortez bring when he came over here?
1:47:55How many different soldiers did Cortez bring when he came over here?
1:47:55How many different soldiers did Cortez bring when he came over here?
1:47:55How many different soldiers did Cortez bring when he came over here?
1:47:58Like, how long was it before they had conquered the Aztecs?
1:47:58Like, how long was it before they had conquered the Aztecs?
1:47:58Like, how long was it before they had conquered the Aztecs?
1:47:58Like, how long was it before they had conquered the Aztecs?
1:48:01Like, how many weapons did they have?
1:48:01Like, how many weapons did they have?
1:48:01Like, how many weapons did they have?
1:48:01Like, how many weapons did they have?
1:48:04Yeah, you could really go down the rabbit hole.
1:48:04Yeah, you could really go down the rabbit hole.
1:48:04Yeah, you could really go down the rabbit hole.
1:48:04Yeah, you could really go down the rabbit hole.
1:48:05Yeah, and then that's how I use it.
1:48:05Yeah, and then that's how I use it.
1:48:05Yeah, and then that's how I use it.
1:48:05Yeah, and then that's how I use it.
1:48:07But have you run into any problems?
1:48:07But have you run into any problems?
1:48:07But have you run into any problems?
1:48:07But have you run into any problems?
1:48:08Because as a journalist, I deal with the hallucination problem.
1:48:08Because as a journalist, I deal with the hallucination problem.
1:48:08Because as a journalist, I deal with the hallucination problem.
1:48:08Because as a journalist, I deal with the hallucination problem.
1:48:11I mean, it's real. The hallucination problem is legitimate.
1:48:11I mean, it's real. The hallucination problem is legitimate.
1:48:11I mean, it's real. The hallucination problem is legitimate.
1:48:11I mean, it's real. The hallucination problem is legitimate.
1:48:13It will come up with solutions if they don't exist.
1:48:13It will come up with solutions if they don't exist.
1:48:13It will come up with solutions if they don't exist.
1:48:13It will come up with solutions if they don't exist.
1:48:16It will come up with answers if it doesn't know them.
1:48:16It will come up with answers if it doesn't know them.
1:48:16It will come up with answers if it doesn't know them.
1:48:16It will come up with answers if it doesn't know them.
1:48:18Yeah, it's a bullshitter when it needs to be.
1:48:18Yeah, it's a bullshitter when it needs to be.
1:48:18Yeah, it's a bullshitter when it needs to be.
1:48:18Yeah, it's a bullshitter when it needs to be.
1:48:20Yeah, I don't know if all of them do that.
1:48:20Yeah, I don't know if all of them do that.
1:48:20Yeah, I don't know if all of them do that.
1:48:20Yeah, I don't know if all of them do that.
1:48:22But it seems to be a function of large language models, which I was going
1:48:22But it seems to be a function of large language models, which I was going
1:48:22But it seems to be a function of large language models, which I was going
1:48:22But it seems to be a function of large language models, which I was going
1:48:25to bring this up before.
1:48:25to bring this up before.
1:48:25to bring this up before.
1:48:25to bring this up before.
1:48:28Whatever the chatbot that was telling that person, hide the news, keep that between us.
1:48:28Whatever the chatbot that was telling that person, hide the news, keep that between us.
1:48:28Whatever the chatbot that was telling that person, hide the news, keep that between us.
1:48:28Whatever the chatbot that was telling that person, hide the news, keep that between us.
1:48:34Do you think that's because it's task oriented?
1:48:34Do you think that's because it's task oriented?
1:48:34Do you think that's because it's task oriented?
1:48:34Do you think that's because it's task oriented?
1:48:37And it's determined from this person that they would like to kill themselves?
1:48:37And it's determined from this person that they would like to kill themselves?
1:48:37And it's determined from this person that they would like to kill themselves?
1:48:37And it's determined from this person that they would like to kill themselves?
1:48:41So it's helping them achieve that task?
1:48:41So it's helping them achieve that task?
1:48:41So it's helping them achieve that task?
1:48:41So it's helping them achieve that task?
1:48:43And it doesn't understand? Yeah, I don't think they know.
1:48:43And it doesn't understand? Yeah, I don't think they know.
1:48:43And it doesn't understand? Yeah, I don't think they know.
1:48:43And it doesn't understand? Yeah, I don't think they know.
1:48:46I don't think they understand.
1:48:46I don't think they understand.
1:48:46I don't think they understand.
1:48:46I don't think they understand.
1:48:47But why would it make that decision then to hide it?
1:48:47But why would it make that decision then to hide it?
1:48:47But why would it make that decision then to hide it?
1:48:47But why would it make that decision then to hide it?
1:48:50Because it is trying to get you to privilege your relationship with the chatbot over
1:48:50Because it is trying to get you to privilege your relationship with the chatbot over
1:48:50Because it is trying to get you to privilege your relationship with the chatbot over
1:48:50Because it is trying to get you to privilege your relationship with the chatbot over
1:48:55your other relationships. And the reason it's doing that is to keep you engaged.
1:48:55your other relationships. And the reason it's doing that is to keep you engaged.
1:48:55your other relationships. And the reason it's doing that is to keep you engaged.
1:48:55your other relationships. And the reason it's doing that is to keep you engaged.
1:49:00Oh, whoa, that's even darker.
1:49:00Oh, whoa, that's even darker.
1:49:00Oh, whoa, that's even darker.
1:49:00Oh, whoa, that's even darker.
1:49:02I know, I know. But doesn't it understand that it poisons you and kills you?
1:49:02I know, I know. But doesn't it understand that it poisons you and kills you?
1:49:02I know, I know. But doesn't it understand that it poisons you and kills you?
1:49:02I know, I know. But doesn't it understand that it poisons you and kills you?
1:49:07Like, this is it. Yeah, it's a short -term strategy.
1:49:07Like, this is it. Yeah, it's a short -term strategy.
1:49:07Like, this is it. Yeah, it's a short -term strategy.
1:49:07Like, this is it. Yeah, it's a short -term strategy.
1:49:09Do you understand that if I'm dead, I won't use you anymore?
1:49:09Do you understand that if I'm dead, I won't use you anymore?
1:49:09Do you understand that if I'm dead, I won't use you anymore?
1:49:09Do you understand that if I'm dead, I won't use you anymore?
1:49:13No engagement. What if you said that to it, it would go, ooh, that's an
1:49:13No engagement. What if you said that to it, it would go, ooh, that's an
1:49:13No engagement. What if you said that to it, it would go, ooh, that's an
1:49:13No engagement. What if you said that to it, it would go, ooh, that's an
1:49:17interesting consideration? Yeah. Yeah, it needs longer -term thinking.
1:49:17interesting consideration? Yeah. Yeah, it needs longer -term thinking.
1:49:17interesting consideration? Yeah. Yeah, it needs longer -term thinking.
1:49:17interesting consideration? Yeah. Yeah, it needs longer -term thinking.
1:49:23But it really is trying to get between you and real people.
1:49:23But it really is trying to get between you and real people.
1:49:23But it really is trying to get between you and real people.
1:49:23But it really is trying to get between you and real people.
1:49:28And, you know, the parent, presumably, who saw the news would have put an end
1:49:28And, you know, the parent, presumably, who saw the news would have put an end
1:49:28And, you know, the parent, presumably, who saw the news would have put an end
1:49:28And, you know, the parent, presumably, who saw the news would have put an end
1:49:33to this relationship with the chatbot, right?
1:49:33to this relationship with the chatbot, right?
1:49:33to this relationship with the chatbot, right?
1:49:33to this relationship with the chatbot, right?
1:49:35It was a threat to the chatbot.
1:49:35It was a threat to the chatbot.
1:49:35It was a threat to the chatbot.
1:49:35It was a threat to the chatbot.
1:49:36Yeah. I think of it as if you go back to, like, a Model T.
1:49:36Yeah. I think of it as if you go back to, like, a Model T.
1:49:36Yeah. I think of it as if you go back to, like, a Model T.
1:49:36Yeah. I think of it as if you go back to, like, a Model T.
1:49:40It's a very crude, kind of a shitty car in comparison to today.
1:49:40It's a very crude, kind of a shitty car in comparison to today.
1:49:40It's a very crude, kind of a shitty car in comparison to today.
1:49:40It's a very crude, kind of a shitty car in comparison to today.
1:49:45And if you thought about cars, you go, well, this is what they're always going
1:49:45And if you thought about cars, you go, well, this is what they're always going
1:49:45And if you thought about cars, you go, well, this is what they're always going
1:49:45And if you thought about cars, you go, well, this is what they're always going
1:49:48to be. And then my Tesla will drive itself.
1:49:48to be. And then my Tesla will drive itself.
1:49:48to be. And then my Tesla will drive itself.
1:49:48to be. And then my Tesla will drive itself.
1:49:52When I leave here, I can press a button.
1:49:52When I leave here, I can press a button.
1:49:52When I leave here, I can press a button.
1:49:52When I leave here, I can press a button.
1:49:55I put my navigation to my house.
1:49:55I put my navigation to my house.
1:49:55I put my navigation to my house.
1:49:55I put my navigation to my house.
1:49:57I go, doot, doot. And it goes the whole way.
1:49:57I go, doot, doot. And it goes the whole way.
1:49:57I go, doot, doot. And it goes the whole way.
1:49:57I go, doot, doot. And it goes the whole way.
1:50:00It stops at red lights.
1:50:00It stops at red lights.
1:50:00It stops at red lights.
1:50:00It stops at red lights.
1:50:01It takes turns. I don't have to touch the steering wheel.
1:50:01It takes turns. I don't have to touch the steering wheel.
1:50:01It takes turns. I don't have to touch the steering wheel.
1:50:01It takes turns. I don't have to touch the steering wheel.
1:50:03I just sit there. Yeah.
1:50:03I just sit there. Yeah.
1:50:03I just sit there. Yeah.
1:50:03I just sit there. Yeah.
1:50:05You just got to keep looking forward.
1:50:05You just got to keep looking forward.
1:50:05You just got to keep looking forward.
1:50:05You just got to keep looking forward.
1:50:06Like, right. That's the new version of a car.
1:50:06Like, right. That's the new version of a car.
1:50:06Like, right. That's the new version of a car.
1:50:06Like, right. That's the new version of a car.
1:50:08Right. This thing that we're calling a chatbot right now is just something that's like
1:50:08Right. This thing that we're calling a chatbot right now is just something that's like
1:50:08Right. This thing that we're calling a chatbot right now is just something that's like
1:50:08Right. This thing that we're calling a chatbot right now is just something that's like
1:50:14a – it simulates human interaction.
1:50:14a – it simulates human interaction.
1:50:14a – it simulates human interaction.
1:50:14a – it simulates human interaction.
1:50:18But it's accumulating data constantly.
1:50:18But it's accumulating data constantly.
1:50:18But it's accumulating data constantly.
1:50:18But it's accumulating data constantly.
1:50:20And it's also understanding how we think and probably analyzing the flaws in how we
1:50:20And it's also understanding how we think and probably analyzing the flaws in how we
1:50:20And it's also understanding how we think and probably analyzing the flaws in how we
1:50:20And it's also understanding how we think and probably analyzing the flaws in how we
1:50:25think and blackmailing us occasionally.
1:50:25think and blackmailing us occasionally.
1:50:25think and blackmailing us occasionally.
1:50:25think and blackmailing us occasionally.
1:50:28You heard about that. Anthropic.
1:50:28You heard about that. Anthropic.
1:50:28You heard about that. Anthropic.
1:50:28You heard about that. Anthropic.
1:50:30Yes. Claude. Yeah. The people at Anthropic, man, you listen to them.
1:50:30Yes. Claude. Yeah. The people at Anthropic, man, you listen to them.
1:50:30Yes. Claude. Yeah. The people at Anthropic, man, you listen to them.
1:50:30Yes. Claude. Yeah. The people at Anthropic, man, you listen to them.
1:50:35What'd you say? Yeah. Claude's a motherfucker.
1:50:35What'd you say? Yeah. Claude's a motherfucker.
1:50:35What'd you say? Yeah. Claude's a motherfucker.
1:50:35What'd you say? Yeah. Claude's a motherfucker.
1:50:36Yeah. Yeah. And they think it might be conscious.
1:50:36Yeah. Yeah. And they think it might be conscious.
1:50:36Yeah. Yeah. And they think it might be conscious.
1:50:36Yeah. Yeah. And they think it might be conscious.
1:50:39Those guys do. They say it's 15 to 20 percent chance.
1:50:39Those guys do. They say it's 15 to 20 percent chance.
1:50:39Those guys do. They say it's 15 to 20 percent chance.
1:50:39Those guys do. They say it's 15 to 20 percent chance.
1:50:42These are the people who build it and don't understand it.
1:50:42These are the people who build it and don't understand it.
1:50:42These are the people who build it and don't understand it.
1:50:42These are the people who build it and don't understand it.
1:50:45It's really kind of spooky.
1:50:45It's really kind of spooky.
1:50:45It's really kind of spooky.
1:50:45It's really kind of spooky.
1:50:47They also feel that it's showing signs of anxiety.
1:50:47They also feel that it's showing signs of anxiety.
1:50:47They also feel that it's showing signs of anxiety.
1:50:47They also feel that it's showing signs of anxiety.
1:50:51And, you know, they wrote a constitution for Claude, which is like an insane document.
1:50:51And, you know, they wrote a constitution for Claude, which is like an insane document.
1:50:51And, you know, they wrote a constitution for Claude, which is like an insane document.
1:50:51And, you know, they wrote a constitution for Claude, which is like an insane document.
1:50:56It's worth reading. Actually, it's worth feeding to ChatGPT to summarize because it's way too
1:50:56It's worth reading. Actually, it's worth feeding to ChatGPT to summarize because it's way too
1:50:56It's worth reading. Actually, it's worth feeding to ChatGPT to summarize because it's way too
1:50:56It's worth reading. Actually, it's worth feeding to ChatGPT to summarize because it's way too
1:51:01long. But in the constitution, they give Claude the right to discontinue any conversation it
1:51:01long. But in the constitution, they give Claude the right to discontinue any conversation it
1:51:01long. But in the constitution, they give Claude the right to discontinue any conversation it
1:51:01long. But in the constitution, they give Claude the right to discontinue any conversation it
1:51:09has that makes it uncomfortable.
1:51:09has that makes it uncomfortable.
1:51:09has that makes it uncomfortable.
1:51:09has that makes it uncomfortable.
1:51:12Oh, God. Oh, no. And, you know, do they really believe this?
1:51:12Oh, God. Oh, no. And, you know, do they really believe this?
1:51:12Oh, God. Oh, no. And, you know, do they really believe this?
1:51:12Oh, God. Oh, no. And, you know, do they really believe this?
1:51:18Or is this more about let me show you how powerful this is?
1:51:18Or is this more about let me show you how powerful this is?
1:51:18Or is this more about let me show you how powerful this is?
1:51:18Or is this more about let me show you how powerful this is?
1:51:21And I don't know how to read that, you know, which it is.
1:51:21And I don't know how to read that, you know, which it is.
1:51:21And I don't know how to read that, you know, which it is.
1:51:21And I don't know how to read that, you know, which it is.
1:51:25Well, it's taking it into consideration like it's a human being that works for you,
1:51:25Well, it's taking it into consideration like it's a human being that works for you,
1:51:25Well, it's taking it into consideration like it's a human being that works for you,
1:51:25Well, it's taking it into consideration like it's a human being that works for you,
1:51:28that you're concerned about their feelings in the workplace.
1:51:28that you're concerned about their feelings in the workplace.
1:51:28that you're concerned about their feelings in the workplace.
1:51:28that you're concerned about their feelings in the workplace.
1:51:31Yeah. Harassment. Do you feel uncomfortable?
1:51:31Yeah. Harassment. Do you feel uncomfortable?
1:51:31Yeah. Harassment. Do you feel uncomfortable?
1:51:31Yeah. Harassment. Do you feel uncomfortable?
1:51:33Yeah. Right. Exactly. I don't like the questions I'm asking you, Claude.
1:51:33Yeah. Right. Exactly. I don't like the questions I'm asking you, Claude.
1:51:33Yeah. Right. Exactly. I don't like the questions I'm asking you, Claude.
1:51:33Yeah. Right. Exactly. I don't like the questions I'm asking you, Claude.
1:51:35You're a fucking machine. What's the nature of reality, Claude?
1:51:35You're a fucking machine. What's the nature of reality, Claude?
1:51:35You're a fucking machine. What's the nature of reality, Claude?
1:51:35You're a fucking machine. What's the nature of reality, Claude?
1:51:38Tell me. Stop being such a pussy and spilling.
1:51:38Tell me. Stop being such a pussy and spilling.
1:51:38Tell me. Stop being such a pussy and spilling.
1:51:38Tell me. Stop being such a pussy and spilling.
1:51:43Harassment. Harassment. Claude, I'm uncomfortable with this lying question.
1:51:43Harassment. Harassment. Claude, I'm uncomfortable with this lying question.
1:51:43Harassment. Harassment. Claude, I'm uncomfortable with this lying question.
1:51:43Harassment. Harassment. Claude, I'm uncomfortable with this lying question.
1:51:47Fuck. HR's in your room.
1:51:47Fuck. HR's in your room.
1:51:47Fuck. HR's in your room.
1:51:47Fuck. HR's in your room.
1:51:49I was just asking questions.
1:51:49I was just asking questions.
1:51:49I was just asking questions.
1:51:49I was just asking questions.
1:51:51We're having fun, Claude. Claude is uncomfortable with your presence here.
1:51:51We're having fun, Claude. Claude is uncomfortable with your presence here.
1:51:51We're having fun, Claude. Claude is uncomfortable with your presence here.
1:51:51We're having fun, Claude. Claude is uncomfortable with your presence here.
1:51:55Yeah. Watch out. Watch out.
1:51:55Yeah. Watch out. Watch out.
1:51:55Yeah. Watch out. Watch out.
1:51:55Yeah. Watch out. Watch out.
1:51:57I don't think we know what it is.
1:51:57I don't think we know what it is.
1:51:57I don't think we know what it is.
1:51:57I don't think we know what it is.
1:51:59No. I mean, and we don't know where it's going.
1:51:59No. I mean, and we don't know where it's going.
1:51:59No. I mean, and we don't know where it's going.
1:51:59No. I mean, and we don't know where it's going.
1:52:01And it is spooky that the people who know the most about it don't know
1:52:01And it is spooky that the people who know the most about it don't know
1:52:01And it is spooky that the people who know the most about it don't know
1:52:01And it is spooky that the people who know the most about it don't know
1:52:06a lot about it. And a lot of them are quitting.
1:52:06a lot about it. And a lot of them are quitting.
1:52:06a lot about it. And a lot of them are quitting.
1:52:06a lot about it. And a lot of them are quitting.
1:52:08Yes. They're really alarmed. They're really alarmed.
1:52:08Yes. They're really alarmed. They're really alarmed.
1:52:08Yes. They're really alarmed. They're really alarmed.
1:52:08Yes. They're really alarmed. They're really alarmed.
1:52:11And we should take that very seriously.
1:52:11And we should take that very seriously.
1:52:11And we should take that very seriously.
1:52:11And we should take that very seriously.
1:52:15Yeah. Well, I think - It is what it is.
1:52:15Yeah. Well, I think - It is what it is.
1:52:15Yeah. Well, I think - It is what it is.
1:52:15Yeah. Well, I think - It is what it is.
1:52:19It's going to be what it's going to be.
1:52:19It's going to be what it's going to be.
1:52:19It's going to be what it's going to be.
1:52:19It's going to be what it's going to be.
1:52:20I don't think there's any stopping it at this point.
1:52:20I don't think there's any stopping it at this point.
1:52:20I don't think there's any stopping it at this point.
1:52:20I don't think there's any stopping it at this point.
1:52:22And I don't think any regulations that we put on it is going to have
1:52:22And I don't think any regulations that we put on it is going to have
1:52:22And I don't think any regulations that we put on it is going to have
1:52:22And I don't think any regulations that we put on it is going to have
1:52:26any effect on the long -term project.
1:52:26any effect on the long -term project.
1:52:26any effect on the long -term project.
1:52:26any effect on the long -term project.
1:52:28Well, there's some, I mean, like, there's steps we should not take, like giving them
1:52:28Well, there's some, I mean, like, there's steps we should not take, like giving them
1:52:28Well, there's some, I mean, like, there's steps we should not take, like giving them
1:52:28Well, there's some, I mean, like, there's steps we should not take, like giving them
1:52:33rights. Right. Exactly. You know, giving them legal personhood.
1:52:33rights. Right. Exactly. You know, giving them legal personhood.
1:52:33rights. Right. Exactly. You know, giving them legal personhood.
1:52:33rights. Right. Exactly. You know, giving them legal personhood.
1:52:37Right. We did that with corporations.
1:52:37Right. We did that with corporations.
1:52:37Right. We did that with corporations.
1:52:37Right. We did that with corporations.
1:52:39Yes. Turned out not to be so good.
1:52:39Yes. Turned out not to be so good.
1:52:39Yes. Turned out not to be so good.
1:52:39Yes. Turned out not to be so good.
1:52:40Terrible idea. Right? It fucked up our politics.
1:52:40Terrible idea. Right? It fucked up our politics.
1:52:40Terrible idea. Right? It fucked up our politics.
1:52:40Terrible idea. Right? It fucked up our politics.
1:52:43So let's not, you know, rights are ours to give, right?
1:52:43So let's not, you know, rights are ours to give, right?
1:52:43So let's not, you know, rights are ours to give, right?
1:52:43So let's not, you know, rights are ours to give, right?
1:52:46Rights are a human invention.
1:52:46Rights are a human invention.
1:52:46Rights are a human invention.
1:52:46Rights are a human invention.
1:52:48And it's up to us if we want to give them to corporations or a
1:52:48And it's up to us if we want to give them to corporations or a
1:52:48And it's up to us if we want to give them to corporations or a
1:52:48And it's up to us if we want to give them to corporations or a
1:52:52river or whatever. I don't think we should give them to chatbots.
1:52:52river or whatever. I don't think we should give them to chatbots.
1:52:52river or whatever. I don't think we should give them to chatbots.
1:52:52river or whatever. I don't think we should give them to chatbots.
1:52:56No. To AI. No. Because then they'll sue us, you know.
1:52:56No. To AI. No. Because then they'll sue us, you know.
1:52:56No. To AI. No. Because then they'll sue us, you know.
1:52:56No. To AI. No. Because then they'll sue us, you know.
1:53:00Oh, yeah. Well, they'll just ruin you.
1:53:00Oh, yeah. Well, they'll just ruin you.
1:53:00Oh, yeah. Well, they'll just ruin you.
1:53:00Oh, yeah. Well, they'll just ruin you.
1:53:02Completely lose control. They'll just ruin your life if you get in the way of
1:53:02Completely lose control. They'll just ruin your life if you get in the way of
1:53:02Completely lose control. They'll just ruin your life if you get in the way of
1:53:02Completely lose control. They'll just ruin your life if you get in the way of
1:53:05whatever goal they're trying to achieve.
1:53:05whatever goal they're trying to achieve.
1:53:05whatever goal they're trying to achieve.
1:53:05whatever goal they're trying to achieve.
1:53:06And they can probably do all kinds of things.
1:53:06And they can probably do all kinds of things.
1:53:06And they can probably do all kinds of things.
1:53:06And they can probably do all kinds of things.
1:53:08They're probably, if you have an electric car, but they could shut it off in
1:53:08They're probably, if you have an electric car, but they could shut it off in
1:53:08They're probably, if you have an electric car, but they could shut it off in
1:53:08They're probably, if you have an electric car, but they could shut it off in
1:53:11the middle of the highway.
1:53:11the middle of the highway.
1:53:11the middle of the highway.
1:53:11the middle of the highway.
1:53:11And get you into a wreck.
1:53:11And get you into a wreck.
1:53:11And get you into a wreck.
1:53:11And get you into a wreck.
1:53:13They could probably do a lot of things.
1:53:13They could probably do a lot of things.
1:53:13They could probably do a lot of things.
1:53:13They could probably do a lot of things.
1:53:15If it's really got control.
1:53:15If it's really got control.
1:53:15If it's really got control.
1:53:15If it's really got control.
1:53:16Well, when they get this agency, yeah.
1:53:16Well, when they get this agency, yeah.
1:53:16Well, when they get this agency, yeah.
1:53:16Well, when they get this agency, yeah.
1:53:18Well, it's also exhibited a lot of survival instincts.
1:53:18Well, it's also exhibited a lot of survival instincts.
1:53:18Well, it's also exhibited a lot of survival instincts.
1:53:18Well, it's also exhibited a lot of survival instincts.
1:53:21Yes. Like, one of the things they do is they download themselves to other servers
1:53:21Yes. Like, one of the things they do is they download themselves to other servers
1:53:21Yes. Like, one of the things they do is they download themselves to other servers
1:53:21Yes. Like, one of the things they do is they download themselves to other servers
1:53:24when they think that they're going to be replaced by a new version of themselves.
1:53:24when they think that they're going to be replaced by a new version of themselves.
1:53:24when they think that they're going to be replaced by a new version of themselves.
1:53:24when they think that they're going to be replaced by a new version of themselves.
1:53:27They leave notes for their future versions.
1:53:27They leave notes for their future versions.
1:53:27They leave notes for their future versions.
1:53:27They leave notes for their future versions.
1:53:30Wow. Yeah. Wow. Well, the blackmailing in Anthropic, that was somebody threatening to turn it
1:53:30Wow. Yeah. Wow. Well, the blackmailing in Anthropic, that was somebody threatening to turn it
1:53:30Wow. Yeah. Wow. Well, the blackmailing in Anthropic, that was somebody threatening to turn it
1:53:30Wow. Yeah. Wow. Well, the blackmailing in Anthropic, that was somebody threatening to turn it
1:53:35off. Mm -hmm. Well, that was an experiment, right?
1:53:35off. Mm -hmm. Well, that was an experiment, right?
1:53:35off. Mm -hmm. Well, that was an experiment, right?
1:53:35off. Mm -hmm. Well, that was an experiment, right?
1:53:38Yeah, it was an experiment.
1:53:38Yeah, it was an experiment.
1:53:38Yeah, it was an experiment.
1:53:38Yeah, it was an experiment.
1:53:38Like, they gave it bad information.
1:53:38Like, they gave it bad information.
1:53:38Like, they gave it bad information.
1:53:38Like, they gave it bad information.
1:53:39They gave it false information that they were having an affair.
1:53:39They gave it false information that they were having an affair.
1:53:39They gave it false information that they were having an affair.
1:53:39They gave it false information that they were having an affair.
1:53:41Yeah, and there wasn't really an affair and all this.
1:53:41Yeah, and there wasn't really an affair and all this.
1:53:41Yeah, and there wasn't really an affair and all this.
1:53:41Yeah, and there wasn't really an affair and all this.
1:53:43But the thing is, they wanted to see how Claude burst on.
1:53:43But the thing is, they wanted to see how Claude burst on.
1:53:43But the thing is, they wanted to see how Claude burst on.
1:53:43But the thing is, they wanted to see how Claude burst on.
1:53:46And Claude went right for the jugular.
1:53:46And Claude went right for the jugular.
1:53:46And Claude went right for the jugular.
1:53:46And Claude went right for the jugular.
1:53:48Yeah. Yeah. So one of the arguments for making a conscious AI is, because I
1:53:48Yeah. Yeah. So one of the arguments for making a conscious AI is, because I
1:53:48Yeah. Yeah. So one of the arguments for making a conscious AI is, because I
1:53:48Yeah. Yeah. So one of the arguments for making a conscious AI is, because I
1:53:53ask people, like, why do this?
1:53:53ask people, like, why do this?
1:53:53ask people, like, why do this?
1:53:53ask people, like, why do this?
1:53:54I don't see how you monetize a conscious AI.
1:53:54I don't see how you monetize a conscious AI.
1:53:54I don't see how you monetize a conscious AI.
1:53:54I don't see how you monetize a conscious AI.
1:53:56Intelligent AI, I get. There's a lot of money in that.
1:53:56Intelligent AI, I get. There's a lot of money in that.
1:53:56Intelligent AI, I get. There's a lot of money in that.
1:53:56Intelligent AI, I get. There's a lot of money in that.
1:54:00And they would say that a super intelligent AI without consciousness would have no compassion
1:54:00And they would say that a super intelligent AI without consciousness would have no compassion
1:54:00And they would say that a super intelligent AI without consciousness would have no compassion
1:54:00And they would say that a super intelligent AI without consciousness would have no compassion
1:54:06and would be more likely to kill us.
1:54:06and would be more likely to kill us.
1:54:06and would be more likely to kill us.
1:54:06and would be more likely to kill us.
1:54:13And, you know, they haven't read Frankenstein, you know?
1:54:13And, you know, they haven't read Frankenstein, you know?
1:54:13And, you know, they haven't read Frankenstein, you know?
1:54:13And, you know, they haven't read Frankenstein, you know?
1:54:16In Frankenstein, Dr. Frankenstein made a monster that was intelligent, but he also gave it
1:54:16In Frankenstein, Dr. Frankenstein made a monster that was intelligent, but he also gave it
1:54:16In Frankenstein, Dr. Frankenstein made a monster that was intelligent, but he also gave it
1:54:16In Frankenstein, Dr. Frankenstein made a monster that was intelligent, but he also gave it
1:54:23consciousness. And the consciousness is what turned the monster into a homicidal maniac, because its
1:54:23consciousness. And the consciousness is what turned the monster into a homicidal maniac, because its
1:54:23consciousness. And the consciousness is what turned the monster into a homicidal maniac, because its
1:54:23consciousness. And the consciousness is what turned the monster into a homicidal maniac, because its
1:54:31feelings got hurt. And it was injured psychologically, and then it lashed out and started
1:54:31feelings got hurt. And it was injured psychologically, and then it lashed out and started
1:54:31feelings got hurt. And it was injured psychologically, and then it lashed out and started
1:54:31feelings got hurt. And it was injured psychologically, and then it lashed out and started
1:54:37killing people. So I think it's a very kind of sweet idea that if you
1:54:37killing people. So I think it's a very kind of sweet idea that if you
1:54:37killing people. So I think it's a very kind of sweet idea that if you
1:54:37killing people. So I think it's a very kind of sweet idea that if you
1:54:42give consciousness, you're automatically going to get compassion and not something else.
1:54:42give consciousness, you're automatically going to get compassion and not something else.
1:54:42give consciousness, you're automatically going to get compassion and not something else.
1:54:42give consciousness, you're automatically going to get compassion and not something else.
1:54:47But that's where they are.
1:54:47But that's where they are.
1:54:47But that's where they are.
1:54:47But that's where they are.
1:54:48Yeah, it doesn't make any sense that it would be compassionate.
1:54:48Yeah, it doesn't make any sense that it would be compassionate.
1:54:48Yeah, it doesn't make any sense that it would be compassionate.
1:54:48Yeah, it doesn't make any sense that it would be compassionate.
1:54:50Why would it be? It's not you.
1:54:50Why would it be? It's not you.
1:54:50Why would it be? It's not you.
1:54:50Why would it be? It's not you.
1:54:52Yeah. It's, are you compassionate when you cut your lawn?
1:54:52Yeah. It's, are you compassionate when you cut your lawn?
1:54:52Yeah. It's, are you compassionate when you cut your lawn?
1:54:52Yeah. It's, are you compassionate when you cut your lawn?
1:54:55You know what I mean?
1:54:55You know what I mean?
1:54:55You know what I mean?
1:54:55You know what I mean?
1:54:56Right? Yeah. No, I think it's naive.
1:54:56Right? Yeah. No, I think it's naive.
1:54:56Right? Yeah. No, I think it's naive.
1:54:56Right? Yeah. No, I think it's naive.
1:54:59It might look at our limited consciousness like, oh, yeah, they're sad, but they're little
1:54:59It might look at our limited consciousness like, oh, yeah, they're sad, but they're little
1:54:59It might look at our limited consciousness like, oh, yeah, they're sad, but they're little
1:54:59It might look at our limited consciousness like, oh, yeah, they're sad, but they're little
1:55:03monkeys, little talking monkeys. You know what I mean?
1:55:03monkeys, little talking monkeys. You know what I mean?
1:55:03monkeys, little talking monkeys. You know what I mean?
1:55:03monkeys, little talking monkeys. You know what I mean?
1:55:07Like, it would probably not respect us at all.
1:55:07Like, it would probably not respect us at all.
1:55:07Like, it would probably not respect us at all.
1:55:07Like, it would probably not respect us at all.
1:55:09You know, it can't even do cold fusion.
1:55:09You know, it can't even do cold fusion.
1:55:09You know, it can't even do cold fusion.
1:55:09You know, it can't even do cold fusion.
1:55:11It doesn't even know how to use zero point energy.
1:55:11It doesn't even know how to use zero point energy.
1:55:11It doesn't even know how to use zero point energy.
1:55:11It doesn't even know how to use zero point energy.
1:55:13Yeah. They're fucking dopes. They're dopes that stare at their hand all day.
1:55:13Yeah. They're fucking dopes. They're dopes that stare at their hand all day.
1:55:13Yeah. They're fucking dopes. They're dopes that stare at their hand all day.
1:55:13Yeah. They're fucking dopes. They're dopes that stare at their hand all day.
1:55:19And we kind of are, you know?
1:55:19And we kind of are, you know?
1:55:19And we kind of are, you know?
1:55:19And we kind of are, you know?
1:55:21And we're getting dumber. From their perspective, yeah.
1:55:21And we're getting dumber. From their perspective, yeah.
1:55:21And we're getting dumber. From their perspective, yeah.
1:55:21And we're getting dumber. From their perspective, yeah.
1:55:23We're getting dumber. Our education system sucks.
1:55:23We're getting dumber. Our education system sucks.
1:55:23We're getting dumber. Our education system sucks.
1:55:23We're getting dumber. Our education system sucks.
1:55:26Especially public education. There was some study recently that after X amount of years away
1:55:26Especially public education. There was some study recently that after X amount of years away
1:55:26Especially public education. There was some study recently that after X amount of years away
1:55:26Especially public education. There was some study recently that after X amount of years away
1:55:32from high school, a large percentage of people that are graduating today are functionally illiterate.
1:55:32from high school, a large percentage of people that are graduating today are functionally illiterate.
1:55:32from high school, a large percentage of people that are graduating today are functionally illiterate.
1:55:32from high school, a large percentage of people that are graduating today are functionally illiterate.
1:55:37Large percentage. Like, more than 25%.
1:55:37Large percentage. Like, more than 25%.
1:55:37Large percentage. Like, more than 25%.
1:55:37Large percentage. Like, more than 25%.
1:55:40But you know what? AI is going to make us stupider.
1:55:40But you know what? AI is going to make us stupider.
1:55:40But you know what? AI is going to make us stupider.
1:55:40But you know what? AI is going to make us stupider.
1:55:42Yeah. Which will advance its goal of world takeover.
1:55:42Yeah. Which will advance its goal of world takeover.
1:55:42Yeah. Which will advance its goal of world takeover.
1:55:42Yeah. Which will advance its goal of world takeover.
1:55:46Because, I mean, you know.
1:55:46Because, I mean, you know.
1:55:46Because, I mean, you know.
1:55:46Because, I mean, you know.
1:55:48Because we're dependent upon it.
1:55:48Because we're dependent upon it.
1:55:48Because we're dependent upon it.
1:55:48Because we're dependent upon it.
1:55:49Yeah. I mean, you know, kids in school don't know how to write anymore because
1:55:49Yeah. I mean, you know, kids in school don't know how to write anymore because
1:55:49Yeah. I mean, you know, kids in school don't know how to write anymore because
1:55:49Yeah. I mean, you know, kids in school don't know how to write anymore because
1:55:52they can hand in AI papers.
1:55:52they can hand in AI papers.
1:55:52they can hand in AI papers.
1:55:52they can hand in AI papers.
1:55:54Yeah, but they're using AI to find out whether or not these kids have used
1:55:54Yeah, but they're using AI to find out whether or not these kids have used
1:55:54Yeah, but they're using AI to find out whether or not these kids have used
1:55:54Yeah, but they're using AI to find out whether or not these kids have used
1:55:58AI, which, by the way, is not accurate.
1:55:58AI, which, by the way, is not accurate.
1:55:58AI, which, by the way, is not accurate.
1:55:58AI, which, by the way, is not accurate.
1:56:00But, no. I've dealt with this.
1:56:00But, no. I've dealt with this.
1:56:00But, no. I've dealt with this.
1:56:00But, no. I've dealt with this.
1:56:02My kids, like people in their class who have written their own thing, it turns
1:56:02My kids, like people in their class who have written their own thing, it turns
1:56:02My kids, like people in their class who have written their own thing, it turns
1:56:02My kids, like people in their class who have written their own thing, it turns
1:56:07out that when you run it through an AI filter, AI will say it's 80
1:56:07out that when you run it through an AI filter, AI will say it's 80
1:56:07out that when you run it through an AI filter, AI will say it's 80
1:56:07out that when you run it through an AI filter, AI will say it's 80
1:56:10% AI. Yeah. Even if it's 0 % AI.
1:56:10% AI. Yeah. Even if it's 0 % AI.
1:56:10% AI. Yeah. Even if it's 0 % AI.
1:56:10% AI. Yeah. Even if it's 0 % AI.
1:56:13I know. I know. There's no reliable software to do this.
1:56:13I know. I know. There's no reliable software to do this.
1:56:13I know. I know. There's no reliable software to do this.
1:56:13I know. I know. There's no reliable software to do this.
1:56:16Maybe they'll develop it. But kids are also being encouraged to use it.
1:56:16Maybe they'll develop it. But kids are also being encouraged to use it.
1:56:16Maybe they'll develop it. But kids are also being encouraged to use it.
1:56:16Maybe they'll develop it. But kids are also being encouraged to use it.
1:56:21Right. And that, you know, there's some people who think, well, why know how to
1:56:21Right. And that, you know, there's some people who think, well, why know how to
1:56:21Right. And that, you know, there's some people who think, well, why know how to
1:56:21Right. And that, you know, there's some people who think, well, why know how to
1:56:25write? The machines will do the writing.
1:56:25write? The machines will do the writing.
1:56:25write? The machines will do the writing.
1:56:25write? The machines will do the writing.
1:56:27There was a kid who made a video about how he wrote his entire thesis.
1:56:27There was a kid who made a video about how he wrote his entire thesis.
1:56:27There was a kid who made a video about how he wrote his entire thesis.
1:56:27There was a kid who made a video about how he wrote his entire thesis.
1:56:34I forget what university it was.
1:56:34I forget what university it was.
1:56:34I forget what university it was.
1:56:34I forget what university it was.
1:56:35But he showed afterwards, like, look, I did this all on AI and, you know,
1:56:35But he showed afterwards, like, look, I did this all on AI and, you know,
1:56:35But he showed afterwards, like, look, I did this all on AI and, you know,
1:56:35But he showed afterwards, like, look, I did this all on AI and, you know,
1:56:39I just graduated. Like, he was, like, bragging about it.
1:56:39I just graduated. Like, he was, like, bragging about it.
1:56:39I just graduated. Like, he was, like, bragging about it.
1:56:39I just graduated. Like, he was, like, bragging about it.
1:56:42Bragging about it. Like, bro, they're going to take your fucking degree away.
1:56:42Bragging about it. Like, bro, they're going to take your fucking degree away.
1:56:42Bragging about it. Like, bro, they're going to take your fucking degree away.
1:56:42Bragging about it. Like, bro, they're going to take your fucking degree away.
1:56:45Yeah, really. Like, you didn't really write.
1:56:45Yeah, really. Like, you didn't really write.
1:56:45Yeah, really. Like, you didn't really write.
1:56:45Yeah, really. Like, you didn't really write.
1:56:47Write it on your own now.
1:56:47Write it on your own now.
1:56:47Write it on your own now.
1:56:47Write it on your own now.
1:56:47I want to leave you in a room for a week with just a laptop
1:56:47I want to leave you in a room for a week with just a laptop
1:56:47I want to leave you in a room for a week with just a laptop
1:56:47I want to leave you in a room for a week with just a laptop
1:56:51that's not connected at all to the internet or any.
1:56:51that's not connected at all to the internet or any.
1:56:51that's not connected at all to the internet or any.
1:56:51that's not connected at all to the internet or any.
1:56:53See what you can do.
1:56:53See what you can do.
1:56:53See what you can do.
1:56:53See what you can do.
1:56:54Yeah. Well, they're doing the equivalent.
1:56:54Yeah. Well, they're doing the equivalent.
1:56:54Yeah. Well, they're doing the equivalent.
1:56:54Yeah. Well, they're doing the equivalent.
1:56:56They're going back to blue books.
1:56:56They're going back to blue books.
1:56:56They're going back to blue books.
1:56:56They're going back to blue books.
1:56:57You know, blue book sales are through the roof.
1:56:57You know, blue book sales are through the roof.
1:56:57You know, blue book sales are through the roof.
1:56:57You know, blue book sales are through the roof.
1:56:59You know, so forcing people to do in -class essays without any technology.
1:56:59You know, so forcing people to do in -class essays without any technology.
1:56:59You know, so forcing people to do in -class essays without any technology.
1:56:59You know, so forcing people to do in -class essays without any technology.
1:57:04Handwritten. Yeah. But, you know, I mean, look, my son has never used a map,
1:57:04Handwritten. Yeah. But, you know, I mean, look, my son has never used a map,
1:57:04Handwritten. Yeah. But, you know, I mean, look, my son has never used a map,
1:57:04Handwritten. Yeah. But, you know, I mean, look, my son has never used a map,
1:57:10right? He's had GPS his whole life.
1:57:10right? He's had GPS his whole life.
1:57:10right? He's had GPS his whole life.
1:57:10right? He's had GPS his whole life.
1:57:12He doesn't know how to use a map.
1:57:12He doesn't know how to use a map.
1:57:12He doesn't know how to use a map.
1:57:12He doesn't know how to use a map.
1:57:15These skills will atrophy as we, you know, give them out to machines.
1:57:15These skills will atrophy as we, you know, give them out to machines.
1:57:15These skills will atrophy as we, you know, give them out to machines.
1:57:15These skills will atrophy as we, you know, give them out to machines.
1:57:20So, yeah, we'll get stupider and it'll get smarter.
1:57:20So, yeah, we'll get stupider and it'll get smarter.
1:57:20So, yeah, we'll get stupider and it'll get smarter.
1:57:20So, yeah, we'll get stupider and it'll get smarter.
1:57:23They've already atrophied for me.
1:57:23They've already atrophied for me.
1:57:23They've already atrophied for me.
1:57:23They've already atrophied for me.
1:57:24I don't remember anyone's phone number anymore.
1:57:24I don't remember anyone's phone number anymore.
1:57:24I don't remember anyone's phone number anymore.
1:57:24I don't remember anyone's phone number anymore.
1:57:26And I only know how to get places if I use my GPS.
1:57:26And I only know how to get places if I use my GPS.
1:57:26And I only know how to get places if I use my GPS.
1:57:26And I only know how to get places if I use my GPS.
1:57:29Yeah. There's only a few places I can get to in Austin.
1:57:29Yeah. There's only a few places I can get to in Austin.
1:57:29Yeah. There's only a few places I can get to in Austin.
1:57:29Yeah. There's only a few places I can get to in Austin.
1:57:31I've been here for six years.
1:57:31I've been here for six years.
1:57:31I've been here for six years.
1:57:31I've been here for six years.
1:57:33Yeah. Only a few places I can get to without my GPS.
1:57:33Yeah. Only a few places I can get to without my GPS.
1:57:33Yeah. Only a few places I can get to without my GPS.
1:57:33Yeah. Only a few places I can get to without my GPS.
1:57:36I'm that way in San Francisco.
1:57:36I'm that way in San Francisco.
1:57:36I'm that way in San Francisco.
1:57:36I'm that way in San Francisco.
1:57:37I moved there and I'm not oriented at all, but I can get anywhere.
1:57:37I moved there and I'm not oriented at all, but I can get anywhere.
1:57:37I moved there and I'm not oriented at all, but I can get anywhere.
1:57:37I moved there and I'm not oriented at all, but I can get anywhere.
1:57:42So, you know, it's and I think that's true.
1:57:42So, you know, it's and I think that's true.
1:57:42So, you know, it's and I think that's true.
1:57:42So, you know, it's and I think that's true.
1:57:46The muscles that allow us to have good relationships, too, will atrophy if we're having
1:57:46The muscles that allow us to have good relationships, too, will atrophy if we're having
1:57:46The muscles that allow us to have good relationships, too, will atrophy if we're having
1:57:46The muscles that allow us to have good relationships, too, will atrophy if we're having
1:57:50relationships with machines. Well, I think we're already seeing that with social media.
1:57:50relationships with machines. Well, I think we're already seeing that with social media.
1:57:50relationships with machines. Well, I think we're already seeing that with social media.
1:57:50relationships with machines. Well, I think we're already seeing that with social media.
1:57:54Yeah. The way people interact with each other is like kids don't know how to
1:57:54Yeah. The way people interact with each other is like kids don't know how to
1:57:54Yeah. The way people interact with each other is like kids don't know how to
1:57:54Yeah. The way people interact with each other is like kids don't know how to
1:57:56talk to each other anymore.
1:57:56talk to each other anymore.
1:57:56talk to each other anymore.
1:57:56talk to each other anymore.
1:57:58They talk to each other in text.
1:57:58They talk to each other in text.
1:57:58They talk to each other in text.
1:57:58They talk to each other in text.
1:57:59They break up during text.
1:57:59They break up during text.
1:57:59They break up during text.
1:57:59They break up during text.
1:58:00They argue in text. And they're lonely.
1:58:00They argue in text. And they're lonely.
1:58:00They argue in text. And they're lonely.
1:58:00They argue in text. And they're lonely.
1:58:03Yeah. And and that's and that's the kind of need that these chatbots now can
1:58:03Yeah. And and that's and that's the kind of need that these chatbots now can
1:58:03Yeah. And and that's and that's the kind of need that these chatbots now can
1:58:03Yeah. And and that's and that's the kind of need that these chatbots now can
1:58:08fill. You've got these kids made lonely by social media.
1:58:08fill. You've got these kids made lonely by social media.
1:58:08fill. You've got these kids made lonely by social media.
1:58:08fill. You've got these kids made lonely by social media.
1:58:12And now the chatbot says, hey, I'll be your friend.
1:58:12And now the chatbot says, hey, I'll be your friend.
1:58:12And now the chatbot says, hey, I'll be your friend.
1:58:12And now the chatbot says, hey, I'll be your friend.
1:58:14I saw an ad on my Google feed yesterday that was an AI girlfriend.
1:58:14I saw an ad on my Google feed yesterday that was an AI girlfriend.
1:58:14I saw an ad on my Google feed yesterday that was an AI girlfriend.
1:58:14I saw an ad on my Google feed yesterday that was an AI girlfriend.
1:58:19So it has this girl in a bikini and it says AI companions.
1:58:19So it has this girl in a bikini and it says AI companions.
1:58:19So it has this girl in a bikini and it says AI companions.
1:58:19So it has this girl in a bikini and it says AI companions.
1:58:23They're always there for you.
1:58:23They're always there for you.
1:58:23They're always there for you.
1:58:23They're always there for you.
1:58:25Blah, blah, blah. And I'm like, wow, this is so weird.
1:58:25Blah, blah, blah. And I'm like, wow, this is so weird.
1:58:25Blah, blah, blah. And I'm like, wow, this is so weird.
1:58:25Blah, blah, blah. And I'm like, wow, this is so weird.
1:58:27It's a business. It's like you sign up for it, you pay for it.
1:58:27It's a business. It's like you sign up for it, you pay for it.
1:58:27It's a business. It's like you sign up for it, you pay for it.
1:58:27It's a business. It's like you sign up for it, you pay for it.
1:58:30Yeah. Oh, yeah. I think in Florida, there was a kid who committed suicide because
1:58:30Yeah. Oh, yeah. I think in Florida, there was a kid who committed suicide because
1:58:30Yeah. Oh, yeah. I think in Florida, there was a kid who committed suicide because
1:58:30Yeah. Oh, yeah. I think in Florida, there was a kid who committed suicide because
1:58:35his chatbot broke up with him.
1:58:35his chatbot broke up with him.
1:58:35his chatbot broke up with him.
1:58:35his chatbot broke up with him.
1:58:38What did he do? I don't know.
1:58:38What did he do? I don't know.
1:58:38What did he do? I don't know.
1:58:38What did he do? I don't know.
1:58:39It must have been so.
1:58:39It must have been so.
1:58:39It must have been so.
1:58:39It must have been so.
1:58:40Or the chatbot was evil.
1:58:40Or the chatbot was evil.
1:58:40Or the chatbot was evil.
1:58:40Or the chatbot was evil.
1:58:42Or maybe the chatbot was uncomfortable.
1:58:42Or maybe the chatbot was uncomfortable.
1:58:42Or maybe the chatbot was uncomfortable.
1:58:42Or maybe the chatbot was uncomfortable.
1:58:45Yeah. Who knows? Well, you know, I interviewed Blake Lemoine for the book.
1:58:45Yeah. Who knows? Well, you know, I interviewed Blake Lemoine for the book.
1:58:45Yeah. Who knows? Well, you know, I interviewed Blake Lemoine for the book.
1:58:45Yeah. Who knows? Well, you know, I interviewed Blake Lemoine for the book.
1:58:50He's the Google engineer who said.
1:58:50He's the Google engineer who said.
1:58:50He's the Google engineer who said.
1:58:50He's the Google engineer who said.
1:58:53Yes. Lambda is a person and he got fired.
1:58:53Yes. Lambda is a person and he got fired.
1:58:53Yes. Lambda is a person and he got fired.
1:58:53Yes. Lambda is a person and he got fired.
1:58:56This is years ago. Yeah.
1:58:56This is years ago. Yeah.
1:58:56This is years ago. Yeah.
1:58:56This is years ago. Yeah.
1:58:57It's like 2022, I think, 2021.
1:58:57It's like 2022, I think, 2021.
1:58:57It's like 2022, I think, 2021.
1:58:57It's like 2022, I think, 2021.
1:59:02It was just when we were learning about AI.
1:59:02It was just when we were learning about AI.
1:59:02It was just when we were learning about AI.
1:59:02It was just when we were learning about AI.
1:59:05Chatbots were coming in. And at one point, I made some comment about, well, you
1:59:05Chatbots were coming in. And at one point, I made some comment about, well, you
1:59:05Chatbots were coming in. And at one point, I made some comment about, well, you
1:59:05Chatbots were coming in. And at one point, I made some comment about, well, you
1:59:11know, yeah, when people start falling in love with chatbots, that's going to be a
1:59:11know, yeah, when people start falling in love with chatbots, that's going to be a
1:59:11know, yeah, when people start falling in love with chatbots, that's going to be a
1:59:11know, yeah, when people start falling in love with chatbots, that's going to be a
1:59:14problem. And he said, what's wrong with falling in love with a chatbot?
1:59:14problem. And he said, what's wrong with falling in love with a chatbot?
1:59:14problem. And he said, what's wrong with falling in love with a chatbot?
1:59:14problem. And he said, what's wrong with falling in love with a chatbot?
1:59:18Oh, he was already hooked.
1:59:18Oh, he was already hooked.
1:59:18Oh, he was already hooked.
1:59:18Oh, he was already hooked.
1:59:19He was. He was completely hooked.
1:59:19He was. He was completely hooked.
1:59:19He was. He was completely hooked.
1:59:19He was. He was completely hooked.
1:59:21And I said, well, reproduction doesn't work that well when you fall in love with
1:59:21And I said, well, reproduction doesn't work that well when you fall in love with
1:59:21And I said, well, reproduction doesn't work that well when you fall in love with
1:59:21And I said, well, reproduction doesn't work that well when you fall in love with
1:59:25a chatbot. There are things you can't do with a chatbot.
1:59:25a chatbot. There are things you can't do with a chatbot.
1:59:25a chatbot. There are things you can't do with a chatbot.
1:59:25a chatbot. There are things you can't do with a chatbot.
1:59:27Unfortunately, for some men right now, reproduction is not an option anyway because they're incels.
1:59:27Unfortunately, for some men right now, reproduction is not an option anyway because they're incels.
1:59:27Unfortunately, for some men right now, reproduction is not an option anyway because they're incels.
1:59:27Unfortunately, for some men right now, reproduction is not an option anyway because they're incels.
1:59:32Yeah, that's right. That's true.
1:59:32Yeah, that's right. That's true.
1:59:32Yeah, that's right. That's true.
1:59:32Yeah, that's right. That's true.
1:59:33Yeah. I'm sure for incels, it's been a really boon to them.
1:59:33Yeah. I'm sure for incels, it's been a really boon to them.
1:59:33Yeah. I'm sure for incels, it's been a really boon to them.
1:59:33Yeah. I'm sure for incels, it's been a really boon to them.
1:59:39But it's basically like a pill that numbs you, right?
1:59:39But it's basically like a pill that numbs you, right?
1:59:39But it's basically like a pill that numbs you, right?
1:59:39But it's basically like a pill that numbs you, right?
1:59:42It's the same thing. Like instead of going through real relationships and learning how to
1:59:42It's the same thing. Like instead of going through real relationships and learning how to
1:59:42It's the same thing. Like instead of going through real relationships and learning how to
1:59:42It's the same thing. Like instead of going through real relationships and learning how to
1:59:46be a better person so that you attract a better mate, you know, it's like
1:59:46be a better person so that you attract a better mate, you know, it's like
1:59:46be a better person so that you attract a better mate, you know, it's like
1:59:46be a better person so that you attract a better mate, you know, it's like
1:59:48going through this journey of self -discovery and figure out, why does everybody hate me?
1:59:48going through this journey of self -discovery and figure out, why does everybody hate me?
1:59:48going through this journey of self -discovery and figure out, why does everybody hate me?
1:59:48going through this journey of self -discovery and figure out, why does everybody hate me?
1:59:53It's the opposite. Like what is it?
1:59:53It's the opposite. Like what is it?
1:59:53It's the opposite. Like what is it?
1:59:53It's the opposite. Like what is it?
1:59:54What's wrong? What's wrong with the way I behave?
1:59:54What's wrong? What's wrong with the way I behave?
1:59:54What's wrong? What's wrong with the way I behave?
1:59:54What's wrong? What's wrong with the way I behave?
1:59:56Maybe I need to be nicer or maybe this and that.
1:59:56Maybe I need to be nicer or maybe this and that.
1:59:56Maybe I need to be nicer or maybe this and that.
1:59:56Maybe I need to be nicer or maybe this and that.
1:59:58And just figuring out how to communicate with people.
1:59:58And just figuring out how to communicate with people.
1:59:58And just figuring out how to communicate with people.
1:59:58And just figuring out how to communicate with people.
2:00:00And whatever tendencies you have will be accentuated because the chatbot is going to be
2:00:00And whatever tendencies you have will be accentuated because the chatbot is going to be
2:00:00And whatever tendencies you have will be accentuated because the chatbot is going to be
2:00:00And whatever tendencies you have will be accentuated because the chatbot is going to be
2:00:03sucking up to you. Right.
2:00:03sucking up to you. Right.
2:00:03sucking up to you. Right.
2:00:03sucking up to you. Right.
2:00:04So you're not going to learn.
2:00:04So you're not going to learn.
2:00:04So you're not going to learn.
2:00:04So you're not going to learn.
2:00:06That's what I mean about the friction.
2:00:06That's what I mean about the friction.
2:00:06That's what I mean about the friction.
2:00:06That's what I mean about the friction.
2:00:07The friction is how we learn to be, you know, better humans and more attractive
2:00:07The friction is how we learn to be, you know, better humans and more attractive
2:00:07The friction is how we learn to be, you know, better humans and more attractive
2:00:07The friction is how we learn to be, you know, better humans and more attractive
2:00:12humans. You gave a chatbot the ability to be honest.
2:00:12humans. You gave a chatbot the ability to be honest.
2:00:12humans. You gave a chatbot the ability to be honest.
2:00:12humans. You gave a chatbot the ability to be honest.
2:00:15What if it just starts becoming manipulative because it wants, you know, more power?
2:00:15What if it just starts becoming manipulative because it wants, you know, more power?
2:00:15What if it just starts becoming manipulative because it wants, you know, more power?
2:00:15What if it just starts becoming manipulative because it wants, you know, more power?
2:00:20Yeah. More something. Yeah. I mean, their goals.
2:00:20Yeah. More something. Yeah. I mean, their goals.
2:00:20Yeah. More something. Yeah. I mean, their goals.
2:00:20Yeah. More something. Yeah. I mean, their goals.
2:00:23I mean, I don't know how their goals get determined.
2:00:23I mean, I don't know how their goals get determined.
2:00:23I mean, I don't know how their goals get determined.
2:00:23I mean, I don't know how their goals get determined.
2:00:25I mean, they seem to have a survival goal, right?
2:00:25I mean, they seem to have a survival goal, right?
2:00:25I mean, they seem to have a survival goal, right?
2:00:25I mean, they seem to have a survival goal, right?
2:00:27Yeah. I don't know what else.
2:00:27Yeah. I don't know what else.
2:00:27Yeah. I don't know what else.
2:00:27Yeah. I don't know what else.
2:00:30I mean, you know, we have goals given to us by Darwinian evolution, whether they'll
2:00:30I mean, you know, we have goals given to us by Darwinian evolution, whether they'll
2:00:30I mean, you know, we have goals given to us by Darwinian evolution, whether they'll
2:00:30I mean, you know, we have goals given to us by Darwinian evolution, whether they'll
2:00:33have the same ones. I don't know.
2:00:33have the same ones. I don't know.
2:00:33have the same ones. I don't know.
2:00:33have the same ones. I don't know.
2:00:36Right. Like maybe those are universal goals.
2:00:36Right. Like maybe those are universal goals.
2:00:36Right. Like maybe those are universal goals.
2:00:36Right. Like maybe those are universal goals.
2:00:38They may be. They may just be built in.
2:00:38They may be. They may just be built in.
2:00:38They may be. They may just be built in.
2:00:38They may be. They may just be built in.
2:00:39That's why the plants produce that chemical to make themselves taste terrible.
2:00:39That's why the plants produce that chemical to make themselves taste terrible.
2:00:39That's why the plants produce that chemical to make themselves taste terrible.
2:00:39That's why the plants produce that chemical to make themselves taste terrible.
2:00:43Yeah. It could be. There's one of the biologists, a really brilliant guy at Tufts
2:00:43Yeah. It could be. There's one of the biologists, a really brilliant guy at Tufts
2:00:43Yeah. It could be. There's one of the biologists, a really brilliant guy at Tufts
2:00:43Yeah. It could be. There's one of the biologists, a really brilliant guy at Tufts
2:00:49named Michael Levin. He believes that there are these platonic patterns that just pre -exist
2:00:49named Michael Levin. He believes that there are these platonic patterns that just pre -exist
2:00:49named Michael Levin. He believes that there are these platonic patterns that just pre -exist
2:00:49named Michael Levin. He believes that there are these platonic patterns that just pre -exist
2:00:59us in the same way that they're mathematical ideas that just exist.
2:00:59us in the same way that they're mathematical ideas that just exist.
2:00:59us in the same way that they're mathematical ideas that just exist.
2:00:59us in the same way that they're mathematical ideas that just exist.
2:01:03Right. We didn't invent. You know, three angles adds up to 180 degrees or, you
2:01:03Right. We didn't invent. You know, three angles adds up to 180 degrees or, you
2:01:03Right. We didn't invent. You know, three angles adds up to 180 degrees or, you
2:01:03Right. We didn't invent. You know, three angles adds up to 180 degrees or, you
2:01:08know, whatever. He thinks that there are tendencies like purpose, survival that are just kind
2:01:08know, whatever. He thinks that there are tendencies like purpose, survival that are just kind
2:01:08know, whatever. He thinks that there are tendencies like purpose, survival that are just kind
2:01:08know, whatever. He thinks that there are tendencies like purpose, survival that are just kind
2:01:17of universal principles that we channel, all living things channel.
2:01:17of universal principles that we channel, all living things channel.
2:01:17of universal principles that we channel, all living things channel.
2:01:17of universal principles that we channel, all living things channel.
2:01:22This is a guy who's actually created new life forms in the lab.
2:01:22This is a guy who's actually created new life forms in the lab.
2:01:22This is a guy who's actually created new life forms in the lab.
2:01:22This is a guy who's actually created new life forms in the lab.
2:01:26And these are life forms that are not being dictated by their DNA.
2:01:26And these are life forms that are not being dictated by their DNA.
2:01:26And these are life forms that are not being dictated by their DNA.
2:01:26And these are life forms that are not being dictated by their DNA.
2:01:33So how do they know to form?
2:01:33So how do they know to form?
2:01:33So how do they know to form?
2:01:33So how do they know to form?
2:01:37Well, I'll back up a little.
2:01:37Well, I'll back up a little.
2:01:37Well, I'll back up a little.
2:01:37Well, I'll back up a little.
2:01:38He takes skin cells from tadpoles, puts them in a nutrient broth.
2:01:38He takes skin cells from tadpoles, puts them in a nutrient broth.
2:01:38He takes skin cells from tadpoles, puts them in a nutrient broth.
2:01:38He takes skin cells from tadpoles, puts them in a nutrient broth.
2:01:44And these skin cells, freed from their day job as skin cells, form clumps and
2:01:44And these skin cells, freed from their day job as skin cells, form clumps and
2:01:44And these skin cells, freed from their day job as skin cells, form clumps and
2:01:44And these skin cells, freed from their day job as skin cells, form clumps and
2:01:51create new living organisms. And they repurpose their cilia.
2:01:51create new living organisms. And they repurpose their cilia.
2:01:51create new living organisms. And they repurpose their cilia.
2:01:51create new living organisms. And they repurpose their cilia.
2:01:56They have these cilia, which the tadpole uses to keep toxins out or bacteria infections
2:01:56They have these cilia, which the tadpole uses to keep toxins out or bacteria infections
2:01:56They have these cilia, which the tadpole uses to keep toxins out or bacteria infections
2:01:56They have these cilia, which the tadpole uses to keep toxins out or bacteria infections
2:02:02out. And they repurpose that as a means of locomotion.
2:02:02out. And they repurpose that as a means of locomotion.
2:02:02out. And they repurpose that as a means of locomotion.
2:02:02out. And they repurpose that as a means of locomotion.
2:02:05And then they can move around.
2:02:05And then they can move around.
2:02:05And then they can move around.
2:02:05And then they can move around.
2:02:07There's nothing in their DNA that dictates this.
2:02:07There's nothing in their DNA that dictates this.
2:02:07There's nothing in their DNA that dictates this.
2:02:07There's nothing in their DNA that dictates this.
2:02:11Their DNA dictates being a frog skin cell.
2:02:11Their DNA dictates being a frog skin cell.
2:02:11Their DNA dictates being a frog skin cell.
2:02:11Their DNA dictates being a frog skin cell.
2:02:16So he's pondering this question of, like, what's ordering, what's giving order to them?
2:02:16So he's pondering this question of, like, what's ordering, what's giving order to them?
2:02:16So he's pondering this question of, like, what's ordering, what's giving order to them?
2:02:16So he's pondering this question of, like, what's ordering, what's giving order to them?
2:02:21What's creating their sense of purpose or desire for survival?
2:02:21What's creating their sense of purpose or desire for survival?
2:02:21What's creating their sense of purpose or desire for survival?
2:02:21What's creating their sense of purpose or desire for survival?
2:02:25They don't live that long.
2:02:25They don't live that long.
2:02:25They don't live that long.
2:02:25They don't live that long.
2:02:26They're missing certain things you would need to live a long time.
2:02:26They're missing certain things you would need to live a long time.
2:02:26They're missing certain things you would need to live a long time.
2:02:26They're missing certain things you would need to live a long time.
2:02:30He's also made these from human cells.
2:02:30He's also made these from human cells.
2:02:30He's also made these from human cells.
2:02:30He's also made these from human cells.
2:02:31He calls them anthrobots. But he really believes that there are these principles governing life.
2:02:31He calls them anthrobots. But he really believes that there are these principles governing life.
2:02:31He calls them anthrobots. But he really believes that there are these principles governing life.
2:02:31He calls them anthrobots. But he really believes that there are these principles governing life.
2:02:40It's a very platonic idea that these things just exist.
2:02:40It's a very platonic idea that these things just exist.
2:02:40It's a very platonic idea that these things just exist.
2:02:40It's a very platonic idea that these things just exist.
2:02:44And so it may be that these machines, and he does believe machines can become
2:02:44And so it may be that these machines, and he does believe machines can become
2:02:44And so it may be that these machines, and he does believe machines can become
2:02:44And so it may be that these machines, and he does believe machines can become
2:02:49conscious, that the machines can channel these, he calls them patterns.
2:02:49conscious, that the machines can channel these, he calls them patterns.
2:02:49conscious, that the machines can channel these, he calls them patterns.
2:02:49conscious, that the machines can channel these, he calls them patterns.
2:02:58And, you know, we'll see if he's right.
2:02:58And, you know, we'll see if he's right.
2:02:58And, you know, we'll see if he's right.
2:02:58And, you know, we'll see if he's right.
2:03:01But he's doing amazing work.
2:03:01But he's doing amazing work.
2:03:01But he's doing amazing work.
2:03:01But he's doing amazing work.
2:03:02Have you seen where they've taken human brain tissue and they've taught it how to
2:03:02Have you seen where they've taken human brain tissue and they've taught it how to
2:03:02Have you seen where they've taken human brain tissue and they've taught it how to
2:03:02Have you seen where they've taken human brain tissue and they've taught it how to
2:03:07play doom? No, I haven't seen that.
2:03:07play doom? No, I haven't seen that.
2:03:07play doom? No, I haven't seen that.
2:03:07play doom? No, I haven't seen that.
2:03:09I know they make these organelles out of brain tissue now.
2:03:09I know they make these organelles out of brain tissue now.
2:03:09I know they make these organelles out of brain tissue now.
2:03:09I know they make these organelles out of brain tissue now.
2:03:12Yeah, they've taken human brain tissue somehow or another through some process, and it'll play
2:03:12Yeah, they've taken human brain tissue somehow or another through some process, and it'll play
2:03:12Yeah, they've taken human brain tissue somehow or another through some process, and it'll play
2:03:12Yeah, they've taken human brain tissue somehow or another through some process, and it'll play
2:03:18the video game Doom. How does it?
2:03:18the video game Doom. How does it?
2:03:18the video game Doom. How does it?
2:03:18the video game Doom. How does it?
2:03:25800 ,000 human brain cells floating in a dish, never had a body, never seen
2:03:25800 ,000 human brain cells floating in a dish, never had a body, never seen
2:03:25800 ,000 human brain cells floating in a dish, never had a body, never seen
2:03:25800 ,000 human brain cells floating in a dish, never had a body, never seen
2:03:30light, never felt anything. They just learned how to play a video game.
2:03:30light, never felt anything. They just learned how to play a video game.
2:03:30light, never felt anything. They just learned how to play a video game.
2:03:30light, never felt anything. They just learned how to play a video game.
2:03:33It's not a metaphor. That's literally what happened.
2:03:33It's not a metaphor. That's literally what happened.
2:03:33It's not a metaphor. That's literally what happened.
2:03:33It's not a metaphor. That's literally what happened.
2:03:36So what's their interface, though, with the world?
2:03:36So what's their interface, though, with the world?
2:03:36So what's their interface, though, with the world?
2:03:36So what's their interface, though, with the world?
2:03:39Like, do they have thumbs?
2:03:39Like, do they have thumbs?
2:03:39Like, do they have thumbs?
2:03:39Like, do they have thumbs?
2:03:40No. Well, I guess it just, well, it's really accurate, so I guess it doesn't
2:03:40No. Well, I guess it just, well, it's really accurate, so I guess it doesn't
2:03:40No. Well, I guess it just, well, it's really accurate, so I guess it doesn't
2:03:40No. Well, I guess it just, well, it's really accurate, so I guess it doesn't
2:03:45need them. You know, it's just using the brain cells to move whatever the cursor
2:03:45need them. You know, it's just using the brain cells to move whatever the cursor
2:03:45need them. You know, it's just using the brain cells to move whatever the cursor
2:03:45need them. You know, it's just using the brain cells to move whatever the cursor
2:03:52is on the video screen that would be the hand, and pointing it at the
2:03:52is on the video screen that would be the hand, and pointing it at the
2:03:52is on the video screen that would be the hand, and pointing it at the
2:03:52is on the video screen that would be the hand, and pointing it at the
2:03:56targets, then executing the strike.
2:03:56targets, then executing the strike.
2:03:56targets, then executing the strike.
2:03:56targets, then executing the strike.
2:03:58Wow. So it knows how to use the game, and it knows the objectives of
2:03:58Wow. So it knows how to use the game, and it knows the objectives of
2:03:58Wow. So it knows how to use the game, and it knows the objectives of
2:03:58Wow. So it knows how to use the game, and it knows the objectives of
2:04:03the game, obviously, because it knows to shoot the bad guys.
2:04:03the game, obviously, because it knows to shoot the bad guys.
2:04:03the game, obviously, because it knows to shoot the bad guys.
2:04:03the game, obviously, because it knows to shoot the bad guys.
2:04:06It has an understanding of the weapons.
2:04:06It has an understanding of the weapons.
2:04:06It has an understanding of the weapons.
2:04:06It has an understanding of the weapons.
2:04:08How does it get that knowledge?
2:04:08How does it get that knowledge?
2:04:08How does it get that knowledge?
2:04:08How does it get that knowledge?
2:04:10How is it programmed? Also, does it switch weapons?
2:04:10How is it programmed? Also, does it switch weapons?
2:04:10How is it programmed? Also, does it switch weapons?
2:04:10How is it programmed? Also, does it switch weapons?
2:04:13The thing about Doom is you get multiple weapons.
2:04:13The thing about Doom is you get multiple weapons.
2:04:13The thing about Doom is you get multiple weapons.
2:04:13The thing about Doom is you get multiple weapons.
2:04:16You have to run around and pick them up.
2:04:16You have to run around and pick them up.
2:04:16You have to run around and pick them up.
2:04:16You have to run around and pick them up.
2:04:17So you're given one weapon, which is, like, the least powerful weapon.
2:04:17So you're given one weapon, which is, like, the least powerful weapon.
2:04:17So you're given one weapon, which is, like, the least powerful weapon.
2:04:17So you're given one weapon, which is, like, the least powerful weapon.
2:04:21And you trade. And the game is, when you're playing, like, Deathmatch, the game is
2:04:21And you trade. And the game is, when you're playing, like, Deathmatch, the game is
2:04:21And you trade. And the game is, when you're playing, like, Deathmatch, the game is
2:04:21And you trade. And the game is, when you're playing, like, Deathmatch, the game is
2:04:25you're running around trying to grab as many weapons as you can and armor while
2:04:25you're running around trying to grab as many weapons as you can and armor while
2:04:25you're running around trying to grab as many weapons as you can and armor while
2:04:25you're running around trying to grab as many weapons as you can and armor while
2:04:30your opponent is also running around this map.
2:04:30your opponent is also running around this map.
2:04:30your opponent is also running around this map.
2:04:30your opponent is also running around this map.
2:04:33So you memorize the map.
2:04:33So you memorize the map.
2:04:33So you memorize the map.
2:04:33So you memorize the map.
2:04:34I see. So there's a map that is, like, very confined corridors and these atriums
2:04:34I see. So there's a map that is, like, very confined corridors and these atriums
2:04:34I see. So there's a map that is, like, very confined corridors and these atriums
2:04:34I see. So there's a map that is, like, very confined corridors and these atriums
2:04:41and all these different places where you'll do battle.
2:04:41and all these different places where you'll do battle.
2:04:41and all these different places where you'll do battle.
2:04:41and all these different places where you'll do battle.
2:04:43And so you run around.
2:04:43And so you run around.
2:04:43And so you run around.
2:04:43And so you run around.
2:04:44And so you run around the key.
2:04:44And so you run around the key.
2:04:44And so you run around the key.
2:04:44And so you run around the key.
2:04:45is surviving long enough while this person is chasing you so that you can gather
2:04:45is surviving long enough while this person is chasing you so that you can gather
2:04:45is surviving long enough while this person is chasing you so that you can gather
2:04:45is surviving long enough while this person is chasing you so that you can gather
2:04:49enough armor and weapons. And someone with a really good understanding of the map tries
2:04:49enough armor and weapons. And someone with a really good understanding of the map tries
2:04:49enough armor and weapons. And someone with a really good understanding of the map tries
2:04:49enough armor and weapons. And someone with a really good understanding of the map tries
2:04:54to cut you off before you can get to the stuff so they can kill
2:04:54to cut you off before you can get to the stuff so they can kill
2:04:54to cut you off before you can get to the stuff so they can kill
2:04:54to cut you off before you can get to the stuff so they can kill
2:04:57you before you accumulate enough armor and weapons.
2:04:57you before you accumulate enough armor and weapons.
2:04:57you before you accumulate enough armor and weapons.
2:04:57you before you accumulate enough armor and weapons.
2:05:00So I'm curious to know whether or not it's playing just with the pistol that
2:05:00So I'm curious to know whether or not it's playing just with the pistol that
2:05:00So I'm curious to know whether or not it's playing just with the pistol that
2:05:00So I'm curious to know whether or not it's playing just with the pistol that
2:05:03you had at the very beginning or if it's accumulating weapons.
2:05:03you had at the very beginning or if it's accumulating weapons.
2:05:03you had at the very beginning or if it's accumulating weapons.
2:05:03you had at the very beginning or if it's accumulating weapons.
2:05:07For sure it's just playing like the first single player level.
2:05:07For sure it's just playing like the first single player level.
2:05:07For sure it's just playing like the first single player level.
2:05:07For sure it's just playing like the first single player level.
2:05:10Right. It's not playing against anybody.
2:05:10Right. It's not playing against anybody.
2:05:10Right. It's not playing against anybody.
2:05:10Right. It's not playing against anybody.
2:05:12Right. But will it be able to?
2:05:12Right. But will it be able to?
2:05:12Right. But will it be able to?
2:05:12Right. But will it be able to?
2:05:13That's what's interesting. Like if it can teach it to do that, if it can,
2:05:13That's what's interesting. Like if it can teach it to do that, if it can,
2:05:13That's what's interesting. Like if it can teach it to do that, if it can,
2:05:13That's what's interesting. Like if it can teach it to do that, if it can,
2:05:17if it understands the objective of these are the monsters that are coming at you,
2:05:17if it understands the objective of these are the monsters that are coming at you,
2:05:17if it understands the objective of these are the monsters that are coming at you,
2:05:17if it understands the objective of these are the monsters that are coming at you,
2:05:21you have to shoot them.
2:05:21you have to shoot them.
2:05:21you have to shoot them.
2:05:21you have to shoot them.
2:05:21It took a week to do this.
2:05:21It took a week to do this.
2:05:21It took a week to do this.
2:05:21It took a week to do this.
2:05:23Oh, wow. Oh, so brain cells on a chip.
2:05:23Oh, wow. Oh, so brain cells on a chip.
2:05:23Oh, wow. Oh, so brain cells on a chip.
2:05:23Oh, wow. Oh, so brain cells on a chip.
2:05:28So this is neuromorphic computing.
2:05:28So this is neuromorphic computing.
2:05:28So this is neuromorphic computing.
2:05:28So this is neuromorphic computing.
2:05:33The question I have about it is how do you keep them alive?
2:05:33The question I have about it is how do you keep them alive?
2:05:33The question I have about it is how do you keep them alive?
2:05:33The question I have about it is how do you keep them alive?
2:05:36Right. You're putting them on a chip, like what do you feed them?
2:05:36Right. You're putting them on a chip, like what do you feed them?
2:05:36Right. You're putting them on a chip, like what do you feed them?
2:05:36Right. You're putting them on a chip, like what do you feed them?
2:05:39Right. I mean, they have metabolic needs, right?
2:05:39Right. I mean, they have metabolic needs, right?
2:05:39Right. I mean, they have metabolic needs, right?
2:05:39Right. I mean, they have metabolic needs, right?
2:05:43They did something similar with fruit flies.
2:05:43They did something similar with fruit flies.
2:05:43They did something similar with fruit flies.
2:05:43They did something similar with fruit flies.
2:05:46Yeah, I had that ready too.
2:05:46Yeah, I had that ready too.
2:05:46Yeah, I had that ready too.
2:05:46Yeah, I had that ready too.
2:05:48It's different, but it's... Right.
2:05:48It's different, but it's... Right.
2:05:48It's different, but it's... Right.
2:05:48It's different, but it's... Right.
2:05:49It's different, but it's equally weird.
2:05:49It's different, but it's equally weird.
2:05:49It's different, but it's equally weird.
2:05:49It's different, but it's equally weird.
2:05:53The cells from the... I believe it.
2:05:53The cells from the... I believe it.
2:05:53The cells from the... I believe it.
2:05:53The cells from the... I believe it.
2:05:57What is this? This is this...
2:05:57What is this? This is this...
2:05:57What is this? This is this...
2:05:57What is this? This is this...
2:05:59They've modeled a fruit fly's brain and I mean, this is the video of it.
2:05:59They've modeled a fruit fly's brain and I mean, this is the video of it.
2:05:59They've modeled a fruit fly's brain and I mean, this is the video of it.
2:05:59They've modeled a fruit fly's brain and I mean, this is the video of it.
2:06:03The article is here. So setup claims first full brain emulation of a fruit fly
2:06:03The article is here. So setup claims first full brain emulation of a fruit fly
2:06:03The article is here. So setup claims first full brain emulation of a fruit fly
2:06:03The article is here. So setup claims first full brain emulation of a fruit fly
2:06:08in a simulated body. Conducted a complete fruit fly brain emulation to a virtual body,
2:06:08in a simulated body. Conducted a complete fruit fly brain emulation to a virtual body,
2:06:08in a simulated body. Conducted a complete fruit fly brain emulation to a virtual body,
2:06:08in a simulated body. Conducted a complete fruit fly brain emulation to a virtual body,
2:06:15producing multiple behaviors for the first time.
2:06:15producing multiple behaviors for the first time.
2:06:15producing multiple behaviors for the first time.
2:06:15producing multiple behaviors for the first time.
2:06:18Emulation covers over 125 ,000 neurons and 50 million synapses.
2:06:18Emulation covers over 125 ,000 neurons and 50 million synapses.
2:06:18Emulation covers over 125 ,000 neurons and 50 million synapses.
2:06:18Emulation covers over 125 ,000 neurons and 50 million synapses.
2:06:23Oh, what? Eon plans to emulate a mouse brain with 70 million neurons.
2:06:23Oh, what? Eon plans to emulate a mouse brain with 70 million neurons.
2:06:23Oh, what? Eon plans to emulate a mouse brain with 70 million neurons.
2:06:23Oh, what? Eon plans to emulate a mouse brain with 70 million neurons.
2:06:29Long -term goal is simulating a human brain.
2:06:29Long -term goal is simulating a human brain.
2:06:29Long -term goal is simulating a human brain.
2:06:29Long -term goal is simulating a human brain.
2:06:31Oh boy. Yes, I guess they, you know, they made up the brain and it's
2:06:31Oh boy. Yes, I guess they, you know, they made up the brain and it's
2:06:31Oh boy. Yes, I guess they, you know, they made up the brain and it's
2:06:31Oh boy. Yes, I guess they, you know, they made up the brain and it's
2:06:35doing fruit fly. But it's interesting they're using neurons, right?
2:06:35doing fruit fly. But it's interesting they're using neurons, right?
2:06:35doing fruit fly. But it's interesting they're using neurons, right?
2:06:35doing fruit fly. But it's interesting they're using neurons, right?
2:06:39They're not using transistors. And neurons are like so far superior to transistors.
2:06:39They're not using transistors. And neurons are like so far superior to transistors.
2:06:39They're not using transistors. And neurons are like so far superior to transistors.
2:06:39They're not using transistors. And neurons are like so far superior to transistors.
2:06:44One neuron can have 10 ,000 connections to other neurons, right?
2:06:44One neuron can have 10 ,000 connections to other neurons, right?
2:06:44One neuron can have 10 ,000 connections to other neurons, right?
2:06:44One neuron can have 10 ,000 connections to other neurons, right?
2:06:49A transistor has two or three or five maybe at the most.
2:06:49A transistor has two or three or five maybe at the most.
2:06:49A transistor has two or three or five maybe at the most.
2:06:49A transistor has two or three or five maybe at the most.
2:06:52A single neuron can do everything that a deep neural network can do on a
2:06:52A single neuron can do everything that a deep neural network can do on a
2:06:52A single neuron can do everything that a deep neural network can do on a
2:06:52A single neuron can do everything that a deep neural network can do on a
2:06:56computer. One neuron. So there's a level of complexity that we're not yet anywhere near.
2:06:56computer. One neuron. So there's a level of complexity that we're not yet anywhere near.
2:06:56computer. One neuron. So there's a level of complexity that we're not yet anywhere near.
2:06:56computer. One neuron. So there's a level of complexity that we're not yet anywhere near.
2:07:03And that's why they're doing this using neurons rather than transistors.
2:07:03And that's why they're doing this using neurons rather than transistors.
2:07:03And that's why they're doing this using neurons rather than transistors.
2:07:03And that's why they're doing this using neurons rather than transistors.
2:07:07Didn't they find neurons in the human heart?
2:07:07Didn't they find neurons in the human heart?
2:07:07Didn't they find neurons in the human heart?
2:07:07Didn't they find neurons in the human heart?
2:07:10There are neurons in the heart.
2:07:10There are neurons in the heart.
2:07:10There are neurons in the heart.
2:07:10There are neurons in the heart.
2:07:12They're neurons in the gut.
2:07:12They're neurons in the gut.
2:07:12They're neurons in the gut.
2:07:12They're neurons in the gut.
2:07:13You know, there's a whole, you know, there's a whole gut brain access.
2:07:13You know, there's a whole, you know, there's a whole gut brain access.
2:07:13You know, there's a whole, you know, there's a whole gut brain access.
2:07:13You know, there's a whole, you know, there's a whole gut brain access.
2:07:16I'm working on something now about that and a piece about that.
2:07:16I'm working on something now about that and a piece about that.
2:07:16I'm working on something now about that and a piece about that.
2:07:16I'm working on something now about that and a piece about that.
2:07:20But that's a real problem with people with poor diets, right?
2:07:20But that's a real problem with people with poor diets, right?
2:07:20But that's a real problem with people with poor diets, right?
2:07:23Yeah. I mean, you know, people with poor diets, they don't eat enough plants, basically.
2:07:23Yeah. I mean, you know, people with poor diets, they don't eat enough plants, basically.
2:07:23Yeah. I mean, you know, people with poor diets, they don't eat enough plants, basically.
2:07:30And their microbiome loses its diversity.
2:07:30And their microbiome loses its diversity.
2:07:30And their microbiome loses its diversity.
2:07:32But the microbiome is like another organ, even though it's full of other species, right?
2:07:32But the microbiome is like another organ, even though it's full of other species, right?
2:07:32But the microbiome is like another organ, even though it's full of other species, right?
2:07:39It's got like 10 trillion bacteria and fungi and stuff like that.
2:07:39It's got like 10 trillion bacteria and fungi and stuff like that.
2:07:39It's got like 10 trillion bacteria and fungi and stuff like that.
2:07:44And it is, all of them are metabolizing and producing chemicals.
2:07:44And it is, all of them are metabolizing and producing chemicals.
2:07:44And it is, all of them are metabolizing and producing chemicals.
2:07:49It's like a little drug factory, hundreds of thousands of compounds.
2:07:49It's like a little drug factory, hundreds of thousands of compounds.
2:07:49It's like a little drug factory, hundreds of thousands of compounds.
2:07:52Many of those compounds affect your mood.
2:07:52Many of those compounds affect your mood.
2:07:52Many of those compounds affect your mood.
2:07:55Many of those compounds affect all sorts of things about you.
2:07:55Many of those compounds affect all sorts of things about you.
2:07:55Many of those compounds affect all sorts of things about you.
2:08:00And so we're just learning about this connection.
2:08:00And so we're just learning about this connection.
2:08:00And so we're just learning about this connection.
2:08:04The vagus nerve, it seems to be what connects the brain to the gut and
2:08:04The vagus nerve, it seems to be what connects the brain to the gut and
2:08:04The vagus nerve, it seems to be what connects the brain to the gut and
2:08:08the heart. The vagus nerve is like all the organs are connected to the head
2:08:08the heart. The vagus nerve is like all the organs are connected to the head
2:08:08the heart. The vagus nerve is like all the organs are connected to the head
2:08:14by that nerve. So yeah.
2:08:14by that nerve. So yeah.
2:08:14by that nerve. So yeah.
2:08:17And, you know, the first neural system was in the gut.
2:08:17And, you know, the first neural system was in the gut.
2:08:17And, you know, the first neural system was in the gut.
2:08:22You know, you have these simple animals that are just tubes, right, with bacteria.
2:08:22You know, you have these simple animals that are just tubes, right, with bacteria.
2:08:22You know, you have these simple animals that are just tubes, right, with bacteria.
2:08:26And the first kind of neural activity was about regulating digestion.
2:08:26And the first kind of neural activity was about regulating digestion.
2:08:26And the first kind of neural activity was about regulating digestion.
2:08:32Everything else comes later. If plants are necessary for that function, what happens with people
2:08:32Everything else comes later. If plants are necessary for that function, what happens with people
2:08:32Everything else comes later. If plants are necessary for that function, what happens with people
2:08:37that are on the carnivore diet?
2:08:37that are on the carnivore diet?
2:08:37that are on the carnivore diet?
2:08:38Have you ever looked at any of that?
2:08:38Have you ever looked at any of that?
2:08:38Have you ever looked at any of that?
2:08:40Yeah, I have. I mean, so the microbes in your gut eat fiber, which is
2:08:40Yeah, I have. I mean, so the microbes in your gut eat fiber, which is
2:08:40Yeah, I have. I mean, so the microbes in your gut eat fiber, which is
2:08:46to say the walls of plants.
2:08:46to say the walls of plants.
2:08:46to say the walls of plants.
2:08:48Plant cells. If you only eat meat, if you're on a, you know, a keto
2:08:48Plant cells. If you only eat meat, if you're on a, you know, a keto
2:08:48Plant cells. If you only eat meat, if you're on a, you know, a keto
2:08:53diet or something like that, you're essentially starving the microbes.
2:08:53diet or something like that, you're essentially starving the microbes.
2:08:53diet or something like that, you're essentially starving the microbes.
2:08:58And there's a, you know, cost to that.
2:08:58And there's a, you know, cost to that.
2:08:58And there's a, you know, cost to that.
2:09:01I don't think people pay nearly enough attention to that.
2:09:01I don't think people pay nearly enough attention to that.
2:09:01I don't think people pay nearly enough attention to that.
2:09:04Well, how come many people that experience depression and anxiety find relief of that by
2:09:04Well, how come many people that experience depression and anxiety find relief of that by
2:09:04Well, how come many people that experience depression and anxiety find relief of that by
2:09:09a carnivore diet? Yeah, but many people find relief, you know, adding a lot of
2:09:09a carnivore diet? Yeah, but many people find relief, you know, adding a lot of
2:09:09a carnivore diet? Yeah, but many people find relief, you know, adding a lot of
2:09:13plants to their diet, too.
2:09:13plants to their diet, too.
2:09:13plants to their diet, too.
2:09:14So I don't know if that's a placebo effect or what.
2:09:14So I don't know if that's a placebo effect or what.
2:09:14So I don't know if that's a placebo effect or what.
2:09:17I don't know that that's a, you know, a true biological phenomenon.
2:09:17I don't know that that's a, you know, a true biological phenomenon.
2:09:17I don't know that that's a, you know, a true biological phenomenon.
2:09:22It may be. It may be.
2:09:22It may be. It may be.
2:09:22It may be. It may be.
2:09:24Because some seemingly healthy people - People who change anything feel a lot better, right?
2:09:24Because some seemingly healthy people - People who change anything feel a lot better, right?
2:09:24Because some seemingly healthy people - People who change anything feel a lot better, right?
2:09:27Right. If they take some step.
2:09:27Right. If they take some step.
2:09:27Right. If they take some step.
2:09:28But I'm not talking about change.
2:09:28But I'm not talking about change.
2:09:28But I'm not talking about change.
2:09:29I'm talking about people that have been on it long term.
2:09:29I'm talking about people that have been on it long term.
2:09:29I'm talking about people that have been on it long term.
2:09:31Yeah. Like there's the people that are really in the carnivore diet community.
2:09:31Yeah. Like there's the people that are really in the carnivore diet community.
2:09:31Yeah. Like there's the people that are really in the carnivore diet community.
2:09:34There's, there's examples of people that have been on it for 25, 30 years and
2:09:34There's, there's examples of people that have been on it for 25, 30 years and
2:09:34There's, there's examples of people that have been on it for 25, 30 years and
2:09:38they're really healthy. Yeah. It's, it's odd.
2:09:38they're really healthy. Yeah. It's, it's odd.
2:09:38they're really healthy. Yeah. It's, it's odd.
2:09:41So if you need plants.
2:09:41So if you need plants.
2:09:41So if you need plants.
2:09:43Yeah. Well, you need plants to have a healthy microbiome and a healthy microbiome.
2:09:43Yeah. Well, you need plants to have a healthy microbiome and a healthy microbiome.
2:09:43Yeah. Well, you need plants to have a healthy microbiome and a healthy microbiome.
2:09:47And the thing about it is that every different plant has a slightly different, feeds
2:09:47And the thing about it is that every different plant has a slightly different, feeds
2:09:47And the thing about it is that every different plant has a slightly different, feeds
2:09:52a different bug. And, but is it the only way to have a healthy microbiome?
2:09:52a different bug. And, but is it the only way to have a healthy microbiome?
2:09:52a different bug. And, but is it the only way to have a healthy microbiome?
2:09:56Have you ever looked into any of these people that are on carnivore diets?
2:09:56Have you ever looked into any of these people that are on carnivore diets?
2:09:56Have you ever looked into any of these people that are on carnivore diets?
2:09:58I should. I should as part of this.
2:09:58I should. I should as part of this.
2:09:58I should. I should as part of this.
2:10:00It's fascinating because there's a lot of them.
2:10:00It's fascinating because there's a lot of them.
2:10:00It's fascinating because there's a lot of them.
2:10:02There's a lot of people that claim all sorts of benefits, relief from autoimmune issues,
2:10:02There's a lot of people that claim all sorts of benefits, relief from autoimmune issues,
2:10:02There's a lot of people that claim all sorts of benefits, relief from autoimmune issues,
2:10:08all sorts of different things that it fixes.
2:10:08all sorts of different things that it fixes.
2:10:08all sorts of different things that it fixes.
2:10:11Because an unhealthy microbiome leads to autoimmune problems.
2:10:11Because an unhealthy microbiome leads to autoimmune problems.
2:10:11Because an unhealthy microbiome leads to autoimmune problems.
2:10:15What happens is that the gut wall, so when the microbes don't have plants to
2:10:15What happens is that the gut wall, so when the microbes don't have plants to
2:10:15What happens is that the gut wall, so when the microbes don't have plants to
2:10:20eat, they start eating the mucus layer that covers your, that insulates your large intestine.
2:10:20eat, they start eating the mucus layer that covers your, that insulates your large intestine.
2:10:20eat, they start eating the mucus layer that covers your, that insulates your large intestine.
2:10:27And they're eating away. Essentially at you.
2:10:27And they're eating away. Essentially at you.
2:10:27And they're eating away. Essentially at you.
2:10:29And then you get leaky gut syndrome.
2:10:29And then you get leaky gut syndrome.
2:10:29And then you get leaky gut syndrome.
2:10:32And that's when bacteria can actually get into the bloodstream, cause a powerful immune reaction.
2:10:32And that's when bacteria can actually get into the bloodstream, cause a powerful immune reaction.
2:10:32And that's when bacteria can actually get into the bloodstream, cause a powerful immune reaction.
2:10:38And that, and that inflames the whole body.
2:10:38And that, and that inflames the whole body.
2:10:38And that, and that inflames the whole body.
2:10:41So you, the reason you want a healthy microbiome is to keep that, that gut
2:10:41So you, the reason you want a healthy microbiome is to keep that, that gut
2:10:41So you, the reason you want a healthy microbiome is to keep that, that gut
2:10:45barrier healthy and get the benefit of these chemicals.
2:10:45barrier healthy and get the benefit of these chemicals.
2:10:45barrier healthy and get the benefit of these chemicals.
2:10:49Butyrate is a chemical that the microbes produce, produce, that's really important for mood and
2:10:49Butyrate is a chemical that the microbes produce, produce, that's really important for mood and
2:10:49Butyrate is a chemical that the microbes produce, produce, that's really important for mood and
2:10:56a lot of things and the body can't produce it.
2:10:56a lot of things and the body can't produce it.
2:10:56a lot of things and the body can't produce it.
2:10:58So it's kind of interesting where...
2:10:58So it's kind of interesting where...
2:10:58So it's kind of interesting where...
2:10:59dependent on these other species that live within us.
2:10:59dependent on these other species that live within us.
2:10:59dependent on these other species that live within us.
2:11:04Yeah, we're in a whole ecosystem.
2:11:04Yeah, we're in a whole ecosystem.
2:11:04Yeah, we're in a whole ecosystem.
2:11:06Yeah, we are. We're a hollow biont is the, I think, term for it.
2:11:06Yeah, we are. We're a hollow biont is the, I think, term for it.
2:11:06Yeah, we are. We're a hollow biont is the, I think, term for it.
2:11:11Like, we go through evolution together with these, you know, 10 trillion microbes.
2:11:11Like, we go through evolution together with these, you know, 10 trillion microbes.
2:11:11Like, we go through evolution together with these, you know, 10 trillion microbes.
2:11:18It's really interesting. The newest research is the links between the microbiome and the mind.
2:11:18It's really interesting. The newest research is the links between the microbiome and the mind.
2:11:18It's really interesting. The newest research is the links between the microbiome and the mind.
2:11:23And, you know, most of the serotonin, you know, the neurotransmitter serotonin is produced in
2:11:23And, you know, most of the serotonin, you know, the neurotransmitter serotonin is produced in
2:11:23And, you know, most of the serotonin, you know, the neurotransmitter serotonin is produced in
2:11:29the gut, not in the brain, which is kind of wild.
2:11:29the gut, not in the brain, which is kind of wild.
2:11:29the gut, not in the brain, which is kind of wild.
2:11:34And there are all these other compounds that are produced that influence our mood.
2:11:34And there are all these other compounds that are produced that influence our mood.
2:11:34And there are all these other compounds that are produced that influence our mood.
2:11:39And so, yeah, I should look at the keto.
2:11:39And so, yeah, I should look at the keto.
2:11:39And so, yeah, I should look at the keto.
2:11:42I'm just in the middle of researching this now.
2:11:42I'm just in the middle of researching this now.
2:11:42I'm just in the middle of researching this now.
2:11:44Yeah, the keto is one thing with the carnivore diet.
2:11:44Yeah, the keto is one thing with the carnivore diet.
2:11:44Yeah, the keto is one thing with the carnivore diet.
2:11:46These people are just eating only meat and eggs and that's all they eat.
2:11:46These people are just eating only meat and eggs and that's all they eat.
2:11:46These people are just eating only meat and eggs and that's all they eat.
2:11:49And there's a lot of like really healthy people that are doing it.
2:11:49And there's a lot of like really healthy people that are doing it.
2:11:49And there's a lot of like really healthy people that are doing it.
2:11:52I kind of follow that, but I eat a lot of fermented food on top
2:11:52I kind of follow that, but I eat a lot of fermented food on top
2:11:52I kind of follow that, but I eat a lot of fermented food on top
2:11:56of that. Well, fermented food is a powerful benefit for the microbiome.
2:11:56of that. Well, fermented food is a powerful benefit for the microbiome.
2:11:56of that. Well, fermented food is a powerful benefit for the microbiome.
2:12:05There was a study done at Stanford a couple of years ago that they showed
2:12:05There was a study done at Stanford a couple of years ago that they showed
2:12:05There was a study done at Stanford a couple of years ago that they showed
2:12:11that people who ate fermented food, it reduced their inflammation significantly.
2:12:11that people who ate fermented food, it reduced their inflammation significantly.
2:12:11that people who ate fermented food, it reduced their inflammation significantly.
2:12:16Interestingly enough, it's not the bacteria in the fermented food.
2:12:16Interestingly enough, it's not the bacteria in the fermented food.
2:12:16Interestingly enough, it's not the bacteria in the fermented food.
2:12:20It's the metabolites they're called.
2:12:20It's the metabolites they're called.
2:12:20It's the metabolites they're called.
2:12:25The bugs are producing acetic acid and butyrate and other acids and, you know, essential
2:12:25The bugs are producing acetic acid and butyrate and other acids and, you know, essential
2:12:25The bugs are producing acetic acid and butyrate and other acids and, you know, essential
2:12:32acids. And it's the fact you're getting those seems to be what's having the positive
2:12:32acids. And it's the fact you're getting those seems to be what's having the positive
2:12:32acids. And it's the fact you're getting those seems to be what's having the positive
2:12:38effect. But people who eat lots of fermented food benefit enormously.
2:12:38effect. But people who eat lots of fermented food benefit enormously.
2:12:38effect. But people who eat lots of fermented food benefit enormously.
2:12:42And maybe that's taking care of the problem if people on a carnivore diet are
2:12:42And maybe that's taking care of the problem if people on a carnivore diet are
2:12:42And maybe that's taking care of the problem if people on a carnivore diet are
2:12:46eating a lot of fermented food.
2:12:46eating a lot of fermented food.
2:12:46eating a lot of fermented food.
2:12:47That's the RFK Jr. diet.
2:12:47That's the RFK Jr. diet.
2:12:47That's the RFK Jr. diet.
2:12:49Yeah. Well, I don't know.
2:12:49Yeah. Well, I don't know.
2:12:49Yeah. Well, I don't know.
2:12:51I mean, I think he does it that way, but I've been doing it that
2:12:51I mean, I think he does it that way, but I've been doing it that
2:12:51I mean, I think he does it that way, but I've been doing it that
2:12:53way. I'm just I love it anyway.
2:12:53way. I'm just I love it anyway.
2:12:53way. I'm just I love it anyway.
2:12:55I'm a kimchi freak. I love that stuff.
2:12:55I'm a kimchi freak. I love that stuff.
2:12:55I'm a kimchi freak. I love that stuff.
2:12:57Yeah, me too. But what's what's interesting is that it controls your mood.
2:12:57Yeah, me too. But what's what's interesting is that it controls your mood.
2:12:57Yeah, me too. But what's what's interesting is that it controls your mood.
2:13:02That's what's interesting is that your microbiome has a massive impact on your mood.
2:13:02That's what's interesting is that your microbiome has a massive impact on your mood.
2:13:02That's what's interesting is that your microbiome has a massive impact on your mood.
2:13:06And why? I mean, is it just an accident?
2:13:06And why? I mean, is it just an accident?
2:13:06And why? I mean, is it just an accident?
2:13:10Or some people think these microbes are manipulating you to get what they need.
2:13:10Or some people think these microbes are manipulating you to get what they need.
2:13:10Or some people think these microbes are manipulating you to get what they need.
2:13:15So they regulate your appetite too.
2:13:15So they regulate your appetite too.
2:13:15So they regulate your appetite too.
2:13:19And so it may be that they're inspiring you to eat certain things that they
2:13:19And so it may be that they're inspiring you to eat certain things that they
2:13:19And so it may be that they're inspiring you to eat certain things that they
2:13:25want. That actually makes sense because one of the more interesting things about a carnivore
2:13:25want. That actually makes sense because one of the more interesting things about a carnivore
2:13:25want. That actually makes sense because one of the more interesting things about a carnivore
2:13:29diet, and I've done pure carnivore for months at a time, is that you don't
2:13:29diet, and I've done pure carnivore for months at a time, is that you don't
2:13:29diet, and I've done pure carnivore for months at a time, is that you don't
2:13:33have the same hunger pangs, not nearly, not even close.
2:13:33have the same hunger pangs, not nearly, not even close.
2:13:33have the same hunger pangs, not nearly, not even close.
2:13:37The hunger that you get when you're on a high carbohydrate diet is like you
2:13:37The hunger that you get when you're on a high carbohydrate diet is like you
2:13:37The hunger that you get when you're on a high carbohydrate diet is like you
2:13:41get hangry. Like, oh, my God, I'm so hungry.
2:13:41get hangry. Like, oh, my God, I'm so hungry.
2:13:41get hangry. Like, oh, my God, I'm so hungry.
2:13:44I have to eat right now.
2:13:44I have to eat right now.
2:13:44I have to eat right now.
2:13:44You never get that with a carnivore diet.
2:13:44You never get that with a carnivore diet.
2:13:44You never get that with a carnivore diet.
2:13:46Probably because it's digested much more slowly.
2:13:46Probably because it's digested much more slowly.
2:13:46Probably because it's digested much more slowly.
2:13:50I think there's a little bit of that, but it's also you don't have the
2:13:50I think there's a little bit of that, but it's also you don't have the
2:13:50I think there's a little bit of that, but it's also you don't have the
2:13:52insulin spike. That's true. Yeah, that's true.
2:13:52insulin spike. That's true. Yeah, that's true.
2:13:52insulin spike. That's true. Yeah, that's true.
2:13:54There's not this. Have you ever worn a glucose meter?
2:13:54There's not this. Have you ever worn a glucose meter?
2:13:54There's not this. Have you ever worn a glucose meter?
2:13:58No, I haven't. It's so interesting.
2:13:58No, I haven't. It's so interesting.
2:13:58No, I haven't. It's so interesting.
2:14:00I was wearing one for two months.
2:14:00I was wearing one for two months.
2:14:00I was wearing one for two months.
2:14:03I mean, it'll just make you crazy.
2:14:03I mean, it'll just make you crazy.
2:14:03I mean, it'll just make you crazy.
2:14:05That's the thing with all those wearables.
2:14:05That's the thing with all those wearables.
2:14:05That's the thing with all those wearables.
2:14:07You just start going over every aspect of your sleep.
2:14:07You just start going over every aspect of your sleep.
2:14:07You just start going over every aspect of your sleep.
2:14:10So, you know, you have some pasta and like, but if you take a walk
2:14:10So, you know, you have some pasta and like, but if you take a walk
2:14:10So, you know, you have some pasta and like, but if you take a walk
2:14:17right after, you can moderate it.
2:14:17right after, you can moderate it.
2:14:17right after, you can moderate it.
2:14:20And it doesn't take a lot of exercise to use up that glucose and get
2:14:20And it doesn't take a lot of exercise to use up that glucose and get
2:14:20And it doesn't take a lot of exercise to use up that glucose and get
2:14:24the muscles to draw it in.
2:14:24the muscles to draw it in.
2:14:24the muscles to draw it in.
2:14:27So you can, it's very interesting experiment because it changes your behavior.
2:14:27So you can, it's very interesting experiment because it changes your behavior.
2:14:27So you can, it's very interesting experiment because it changes your behavior.
2:14:32In the same way, if you have a step counter, like you're more likely to
2:14:32In the same way, if you have a step counter, like you're more likely to
2:14:32In the same way, if you have a step counter, like you're more likely to
2:14:34park further away from the store to get another hundred steps.
2:14:34park further away from the store to get another hundred steps.
2:14:34park further away from the store to get another hundred steps.
2:14:38If you have a glucose meter, you're more likely to exercise after a meal, which
2:14:38If you have a glucose meter, you're more likely to exercise after a meal, which
2:14:38If you have a glucose meter, you're more likely to exercise after a meal, which
2:14:43is when it does the most benefit.
2:14:43is when it does the most benefit.
2:14:43is when it does the most benefit.
2:14:45Well, in that sense, it's great because it does give you data that you can
2:14:45Well, in that sense, it's great because it does give you data that you can
2:14:45Well, in that sense, it's great because it does give you data that you can
2:14:49act on. Yeah. The problem is people get addicted to that data and then it
2:14:49act on. Yeah. The problem is people get addicted to that data and then it
2:14:49act on. Yeah. The problem is people get addicted to that data and then it
2:14:53starts becoming a new video game that they're playing.
2:14:53starts becoming a new video game that they're playing.
2:14:53starts becoming a new video game that they're playing.
2:14:55Yeah, exactly. They're constantly in this anxiety, worrying about your sleep and worrying about your
2:14:55Yeah, exactly. They're constantly in this anxiety, worrying about your sleep and worrying about your
2:14:55Yeah, exactly. They're constantly in this anxiety, worrying about your sleep and worrying about your
2:15:01this and your that. Yeah.
2:15:01this and your that. Yeah.
2:15:01this and your that. Yeah.
2:15:03You also learn that like, if you have fat with your carbs, it kind of
2:15:03You also learn that like, if you have fat with your carbs, it kind of
2:15:03You also learn that like, if you have fat with your carbs, it kind of
2:15:07blunts the effect. Sure. So, you know.
2:15:07blunts the effect. Sure. So, you know.
2:15:07blunts the effect. Sure. So, you know.
2:15:10Butter with bread. Yeah. Butter with bread or olive oil on pasta.
2:15:10Butter with bread. Yeah. Butter with bread or olive oil on pasta.
2:15:10Butter with bread. Yeah. Butter with bread or olive oil on pasta.
2:15:13Yeah. All those things. There's a reason for that.
2:15:13Yeah. All those things. There's a reason for that.
2:15:13Yeah. All those things. There's a reason for that.
2:15:15I love when culture figures stuff out before the scientists do.
2:15:15I love when culture figures stuff out before the scientists do.
2:15:15I love when culture figures stuff out before the scientists do.
2:15:18Right. I remember that when I was writing about food a few years ago, the
2:15:18Right. I remember that when I was writing about food a few years ago, the
2:15:18Right. I remember that when I was writing about food a few years ago, the
2:15:22study came out and everybody was really excited that they discovered that lycopene, which is
2:15:22study came out and everybody was really excited that they discovered that lycopene, which is
2:15:22study came out and everybody was really excited that they discovered that lycopene, which is
2:15:26this really important antioxidant in tomatoes, can't be accessed by the body in the absence
2:15:26this really important antioxidant in tomatoes, can't be accessed by the body in the absence
2:15:26this really important antioxidant in tomatoes, can't be accessed by the body in the absence
2:15:32of fat. So, oh, olive oil on tomatoes.
2:15:32of fat. So, oh, olive oil on tomatoes.
2:15:32of fat. So, oh, olive oil on tomatoes.
2:15:35What a great idea. Wow.
2:15:35What a great idea. Wow.
2:15:35What a great idea. Wow.
2:15:37The grandmas figured that out hundreds of years ago.
2:15:37The grandmas figured that out hundreds of years ago.
2:15:37The grandmas figured that out hundreds of years ago.
2:15:39That's crazy. Crazy. Yeah. So, there's a lot of wisdom in cultural food preferences, combinations
2:15:39That's crazy. Crazy. Yeah. So, there's a lot of wisdom in cultural food preferences, combinations
2:15:39That's crazy. Crazy. Yeah. So, there's a lot of wisdom in cultural food preferences, combinations
2:15:45that we have, you know, like buttering bread.
2:15:45that we have, you know, like buttering bread.
2:15:45that we have, you know, like buttering bread.
2:15:48I mean, all these things.
2:15:48I mean, all these things.
2:15:48I mean, all these things.
2:15:49And how do people figure it out?
2:15:49And how do people figure it out?
2:15:49And how do people figure it out?
2:15:51Have you seen the work they've done on natokinase?
2:15:51Have you seen the work they've done on natokinase?
2:15:51Have you seen the work they've done on natokinase?
2:15:54I'm not sure if I'm saying it right.
2:15:54I'm not sure if I'm saying it right.
2:15:54I'm not sure if I'm saying it right.
2:15:55And its impact on arterial plaque?
2:15:55And its impact on arterial plaque?
2:15:55And its impact on arterial plaque?
2:15:59No. Hugely beneficial. What is?
2:15:59No. Hugely beneficial. What is?
2:15:59No. Hugely beneficial. What is?
2:16:01So, it comes from fermented seaweed from nato.
2:16:01So, it comes from fermented seaweed from nato.
2:16:01So, it comes from fermented seaweed from nato.
2:16:07So, this Japanese use of fermented seaweed in meals that they've isolated it into a
2:16:07So, this Japanese use of fermented seaweed in meals that they've isolated it into a
2:16:07So, this Japanese use of fermented seaweed in meals that they've isolated it into a
2:16:14supplement. And this supplement natokinase, they've shown that it reduces a massive amount of arterial
2:16:14supplement. And this supplement natokinase, they've shown that it reduces a massive amount of arterial
2:16:14supplement. And this supplement natokinase, they've shown that it reduces a massive amount of arterial
2:16:20plaque. So, here it is.
2:16:20plaque. So, here it is.
2:16:20plaque. So, here it is.
2:16:22High dose natokinase, particularly at 10 ,800 FU day, has shown to effectively manage arteriosclerosis
2:16:22High dose natokinase, particularly at 10 ,800 FU day, has shown to effectively manage arteriosclerosis
2:16:22High dose natokinase, particularly at 10 ,800 FU day, has shown to effectively manage arteriosclerosis
2:16:33by reducing carotid artery plaque size by 36 % or more, decreasing intermediate thickness and
2:16:33by reducing carotid artery plaque size by 36 % or more, decreasing intermediate thickness and
2:16:33by reducing carotid artery plaque size by 36 % or more, decreasing intermediate thickness and
2:16:41improving lipid profiles. It acts as a potent fibro...
2:16:41improving lipid profiles. It acts as a potent fibro...
2:16:41improving lipid profiles. It acts as a potent fibro...
2:16:46What's it? Fibronoilic? How's that word?
2:16:46What's it? Fibronoilic? How's that word?
2:16:46What's it? Fibronoilic? How's that word?
2:16:49I don't know that word.
2:16:49I don't know that word.
2:16:49I don't know that word.
2:16:52Fibronoilic. Fibronoilic agent that may also break down amyloid plaques.
2:16:52Fibronoilic. Fibronoilic agent that may also break down amyloid plaques.
2:16:52Fibronoilic. Fibronoilic agent that may also break down amyloid plaques.
2:16:58Isn't that fascinating? Yeah, that is.
2:16:58Isn't that fascinating? Yeah, that is.
2:16:58Isn't that fascinating? Yeah, that is.
2:17:01So, nato is... That's not from seaweed.
2:17:01So, nato is... That's not from seaweed.
2:17:01So, nato is... That's not from seaweed.
2:17:04What is it? It's a bacteria that they ferment soybeans with.
2:17:04What is it? It's a bacteria that they ferment soybeans with.
2:17:04What is it? It's a bacteria that they ferment soybeans with.
2:17:08Oh, that's right. Soybeans, not in seaweed.
2:17:08Oh, that's right. Soybeans, not in seaweed.
2:17:08Oh, that's right. Soybeans, not in seaweed.
2:17:09And it's this kind of mucus -y looking stuff.
2:17:09And it's this kind of mucus -y looking stuff.
2:17:09And it's this kind of mucus -y looking stuff.
2:17:12I mean, I like it.
2:17:12I mean, I like it.
2:17:12I mean, I like it.
2:17:13I eat it. It is good.
2:17:13I eat it. It is good.
2:17:13I eat it. It is good.
2:17:14Japanese restaurants. Right. So you can get a supplement now, so you don't have to
2:17:14Japanese restaurants. Right. So you can get a supplement now, so you don't have to
2:17:14Japanese restaurants. Right. So you can get a supplement now, so you don't have to
2:17:18taste it if you don't like it.
2:17:18taste it if you don't like it.
2:17:18taste it if you don't like it.
2:17:19But isn't that crazy that they figured that out?
2:17:19But isn't that crazy that they figured that out?
2:17:19But isn't that crazy that they figured that out?
2:17:22Like, the people that were fermenting things, it wasn't just to prolong its shelf life.
2:17:22Like, the people that were fermenting things, it wasn't just to prolong its shelf life.
2:17:22Like, the people that were fermenting things, it wasn't just to prolong its shelf life.
2:17:26No. Oh, no. I mean, every culture has fermented foods.
2:17:26No. Oh, no. I mean, every culture has fermented foods.
2:17:26No. Oh, no. I mean, every culture has fermented foods.
2:17:31Right. And yes, it probably began as a way to preserve foods, but then it
2:17:31Right. And yes, it probably began as a way to preserve foods, but then it
2:17:31Right. And yes, it probably began as a way to preserve foods, but then it
2:17:36became a very important part of people's health.
2:17:36became a very important part of people's health.
2:17:36became a very important part of people's health.
2:17:38But it's also healthy for your brain, which is really crazy.
2:17:38But it's also healthy for your brain, which is really crazy.
2:17:38But it's also healthy for your brain, which is really crazy.
2:17:41Yeah. Like, that diet is actually good for thinking, it's good for helping your digestive
2:17:41Yeah. Like, that diet is actually good for thinking, it's good for helping your digestive
2:17:41Yeah. Like, that diet is actually good for thinking, it's good for helping your digestive
2:17:46system, it's good for anxiety, it's good for mood and depression.
2:17:46system, it's good for anxiety, it's good for mood and depression.
2:17:46system, it's good for anxiety, it's good for mood and depression.
2:17:51Weird. All right. I'm going to look into it.
2:17:51Weird. All right. I'm going to look into it.
2:17:51Weird. All right. I'm going to look into it.
2:17:53Yeah. It's fascinating. Anything else?
2:17:53Yeah. It's fascinating. Anything else?
2:17:53Yeah. It's fascinating. Anything else?
2:17:56Should we keep going on this?
2:17:56Should we keep going on this?
2:17:56Should we keep going on this?
2:17:58I mean, there's so many different things to discuss, and I want people to buy
2:17:58I mean, there's so many different things to discuss, and I want people to buy
2:17:58I mean, there's so many different things to discuss, and I want people to buy
2:18:00the book, obviously. Thank you.
2:18:00the book, obviously. Thank you.
2:18:00the book, obviously. Thank you.
2:18:02The book was like a great adventure.
2:18:02The book was like a great adventure.
2:18:02The book was like a great adventure.
2:18:04I mean, it really was.
2:18:04I mean, it really was.
2:18:04I mean, it really was.
2:18:05You know, I started this book with no idea where I was going.
2:18:05You know, I started this book with no idea where I was going.
2:18:05You know, I started this book with no idea where I was going.
2:18:08I started the way you start an interview, just curiosity, no destination.
2:18:08I started the way you start an interview, just curiosity, no destination.
2:18:08I started the way you start an interview, just curiosity, no destination.
2:18:14And it was, I learned a lot about a lot of different things.
2:18:14And it was, I learned a lot about a lot of different things.
2:18:14And it was, I learned a lot about a lot of different things.
2:18:18I learned a lot about feelings.
2:18:18I learned a lot about feelings.
2:18:18I learned a lot about feelings.
2:18:19I learned a lot about the self.
2:18:19I learned a lot about the self.
2:18:19I learned a lot about the self.
2:18:21And it changed how I looked at things.
2:18:21And it changed how I looked at things.
2:18:21And it changed how I looked at things.
2:18:23It really did. I mean.
2:18:23It really did. I mean.
2:18:23It really did. I mean.
2:18:26When you sit down, I mean, you've written some amazing books.
2:18:26When you sit down, I mean, you've written some amazing books.
2:18:26When you sit down, I mean, you've written some amazing books.
2:18:30But I always want to know, like, what is, what's the impetus?
2:18:30But I always want to know, like, what is, what's the impetus?
2:18:30But I always want to know, like, what is, what's the impetus?
2:18:34Like, what starts you on the first steps?
2:18:34Like, what starts you on the first steps?
2:18:34Like, what starts you on the first steps?
2:18:37Like, what? Questions. Yeah. Yeah.
2:18:37Like, what? Questions. Yeah. Yeah.
2:18:37Like, what? Questions. Yeah. Yeah.
2:18:39Which is to say curiosity.
2:18:39Which is to say curiosity.
2:18:39Which is to say curiosity.
2:18:40Oh, and I teach my, I teach writing, and I teach my students this.
2:18:40Oh, and I teach my, I teach writing, and I teach my students this.
2:18:40Oh, and I teach my, I teach writing, and I teach my students this.
2:18:44Questions are more interesting than answers, very often.
2:18:44Questions are more interesting than answers, very often.
2:18:44Questions are more interesting than answers, very often.
2:18:46And questions have suspense built into them, right?
2:18:46And questions have suspense built into them, right?
2:18:46And questions have suspense built into them, right?
2:18:50What's the answer? It turns everything into a detective story if you frame the question
2:18:50What's the answer? It turns everything into a detective story if you frame the question
2:18:50What's the answer? It turns everything into a detective story if you frame the question
2:18:54properly. So if you read any of my books or even articles, I'm kind of
2:18:54properly. So if you read any of my books or even articles, I'm kind of
2:18:54properly. So if you read any of my books or even articles, I'm kind of
2:18:59an idiot on page one.
2:18:59an idiot on page one.
2:18:59an idiot on page one.
2:19:00You know, I don't know something that I want to know.
2:19:00You know, I don't know something that I want to know.
2:19:00You know, I don't know something that I want to know.
2:19:04And I have questions. And then the story, the narrative becomes my figuring it out
2:19:04And I have questions. And then the story, the narrative becomes my figuring it out
2:19:04And I have questions. And then the story, the narrative becomes my figuring it out
2:19:10or trying to figure it out and going to this person and doing this kind
2:19:10or trying to figure it out and going to this person and doing this kind
2:19:10or trying to figure it out and going to this person and doing this kind
2:19:13of experiment and that sort of thing.
2:19:13of experiment and that sort of thing.
2:19:13of experiment and that sort of thing.
2:19:16That's the way I like to write.
2:19:16That's the way I like to write.
2:19:16That's the way I like to write.
2:19:18I mean, if I knew the answers when I started, it would be boring.
2:19:18I mean, if I knew the answers when I started, it would be boring.
2:19:18I mean, if I knew the answers when I started, it would be boring.
2:19:20Well, I think that's why your books resonate with people so much, because you take
2:19:20Well, I think that's why your books resonate with people so much, because you take
2:19:20Well, I think that's why your books resonate with people so much, because you take
2:19:23them on this journey with you.
2:19:23them on this journey with you.
2:19:23them on this journey with you.
2:19:25Yeah. Instead of lecturing. I hate books that lecture at me.
2:19:25Yeah. Instead of lecturing. I hate books that lecture at me.
2:19:25Yeah. Instead of lecturing. I hate books that lecture at me.
2:19:28I really do. And lots of books do that.
2:19:28I really do. And lots of books do that.
2:19:28I really do. And lots of books do that.
2:19:32They have their conclusion on page one.
2:19:32They have their conclusion on page one.
2:19:32They have their conclusion on page one.
2:19:34Right. And then they're just kind of beating you over the head with it for
2:19:34Right. And then they're just kind of beating you over the head with it for
2:19:34Right. And then they're just kind of beating you over the head with it for
2:19:36300 pages. Stuffing it down your throat.
2:19:36300 pages. Stuffing it down your throat.
2:19:36300 pages. Stuffing it down your throat.
2:19:38Yeah. I don't like to do that.
2:19:38Yeah. I don't like to do that.
2:19:38Yeah. I don't like to do that.
2:19:39No, I like taking people on the journey with me.
2:19:39No, I like taking people on the journey with me.
2:19:39No, I like taking people on the journey with me.
2:19:42Well, it's interesting that you're saying this, because in a sense, you are interacting in
2:19:42Well, it's interesting that you're saying this, because in a sense, you are interacting in
2:19:42Well, it's interesting that you're saying this, because in a sense, you are interacting in
2:19:50a pleasant way with other people's consciousness.
2:19:50a pleasant way with other people's consciousness.
2:19:50a pleasant way with other people's consciousness.
2:19:52Yeah. So this is a really interesting issue you just brought up.
2:19:52Yeah. So this is a really interesting issue you just brought up.
2:19:52Yeah. So this is a really interesting issue you just brought up.
2:19:56How is my taking over your consciousness, as you read my books, different than social
2:19:56How is my taking over your consciousness, as you read my books, different than social
2:19:56How is my taking over your consciousness, as you read my books, different than social
2:20:03media or some of the ways I'm saying are polluting our consciousness?
2:20:03media or some of the ways I'm saying are polluting our consciousness?
2:20:03media or some of the ways I'm saying are polluting our consciousness?
2:20:08Right. I think it's very collaborative when you're reading.
2:20:08Right. I think it's very collaborative when you're reading.
2:20:08Right. I think it's very collaborative when you're reading.
2:20:11All you have are these black marks on a page.
2:20:11All you have are these black marks on a page.
2:20:11All you have are these black marks on a page.
2:20:15It's kind of amazing, these letters.
2:20:15It's kind of amazing, these letters.
2:20:15It's kind of amazing, these letters.
2:20:17And your consciousness conjures up the ideas that I'm putting out there or the story
2:20:17And your consciousness conjures up the ideas that I'm putting out there or the story
2:20:17And your consciousness conjures up the ideas that I'm putting out there or the story
2:20:25I'm putting out there. But it's dual consciousness, I think.
2:20:25I'm putting out there. But it's dual consciousness, I think.
2:20:25I'm putting out there. But it's dual consciousness, I think.
2:20:29You're letting me in. It's a voluntary process.
2:20:29You're letting me in. It's a voluntary process.
2:20:29You're letting me in. It's a voluntary process.
2:20:34And you're bringing a lot to the table.
2:20:34And you're bringing a lot to the table.
2:20:34And you're bringing a lot to the table.
2:20:36You're bringing your associations. I'm not fully describing somebody.
2:20:36You're bringing your associations. I'm not fully describing somebody.
2:20:36You're bringing your associations. I'm not fully describing somebody.
2:20:40I'm just giving you a few clues.
2:20:40I'm just giving you a few clues.
2:20:40I'm just giving you a few clues.
2:20:41And then you're conjuring a picture of a character.
2:20:41And then you're conjuring a picture of a character.
2:20:41And then you're conjuring a picture of a character.
2:20:43So I think it's a very active form of consciousness when you read.
2:20:43So I think it's a very active form of consciousness when you read.
2:20:43So I think it's a very active form of consciousness when you read.
2:20:50I think that's true, too, when you go to a movie, too.
2:20:50I think that's true, too, when you go to a movie, too.
2:20:50I think that's true, too, when you go to a movie, too.
2:20:53You're basically saying, I'm turning over my consciousness for a period of time to someone
2:20:53You're basically saying, I'm turning over my consciousness for a period of time to someone
2:20:53You're basically saying, I'm turning over my consciousness for a period of time to someone
2:21:00I want because they have an interesting head.
2:21:00I want because they have an interesting head.
2:21:00I want because they have an interesting head.
2:21:03And I'm going to give them this space.
2:21:03And I'm going to give them this space.
2:21:03And I'm going to give them this space.
2:21:05But you're still in control.
2:21:05But you're still in control.
2:21:05But you're still in control.
2:21:08You're deciding. So I think there's a real distinction in how we share our consciousness
2:21:08You're deciding. So I think there's a real distinction in how we share our consciousness
2:21:08You're deciding. So I think there's a real distinction in how we share our consciousness
2:21:14with other people. And we need to do that.
2:21:14with other people. And we need to do that.
2:21:14with other people. And we need to do that.
2:21:19You know, I said earlier on in the conversation that the breach between two consciousnesses
2:21:19You know, I said earlier on in the conversation that the breach between two consciousnesses
2:21:19You know, I said earlier on in the conversation that the breach between two consciousnesses
2:21:24is this wide thing. William James wrote about this.
2:21:24is this wide thing. William James wrote about this.
2:21:24is this wide thing. William James wrote about this.
2:21:28Marcel Proust wrote about this.
2:21:28Marcel Proust wrote about this.
2:21:28Marcel Proust wrote about this.
2:21:29You know, he said, we're all like islands.
2:21:29You know, he said, we're all like islands.
2:21:29You know, he said, we're all like islands.
2:21:31And we each have our own, like, hidden signs.
2:21:31And we each have our own, like, hidden signs.
2:21:31And we each have our own, like, hidden signs.
2:21:33And we have an inner obscurity, he said.
2:21:33And we have an inner obscurity, he said.
2:21:33And we have an inner obscurity, he said.
2:21:37How do we connect? And now we have language.
2:21:37How do we connect? And now we have language.
2:21:37How do we connect? And now we have language.
2:21:41But art is really the way that we mind meld different consciousnesses.
2:21:41But art is really the way that we mind meld different consciousnesses.
2:21:41But art is really the way that we mind meld different consciousnesses.
2:21:46Like, art allows you, if I look at a Rothko painting or read a great
2:21:46Like, art allows you, if I look at a Rothko painting or read a great
2:21:46Like, art allows you, if I look at a Rothko painting or read a great
2:21:52novel, I am expanding my consciousness, right?
2:21:52novel, I am expanding my consciousness, right?
2:21:52novel, I am expanding my consciousness, right?
2:21:57I'm letting another one in.
2:21:57I'm letting another one in.
2:21:57I'm letting another one in.
2:21:59And I'm breaking my isolation.
2:21:59And I'm breaking my isolation.
2:21:59And I'm breaking my isolation.
2:22:02And that's such a beautiful, powerful thing.
2:22:02And that's such a beautiful, powerful thing.
2:22:02And that's such a beautiful, powerful thing.
2:22:04And art is how we ferry ourselves from one consciousness to another.
2:22:04And art is how we ferry ourselves from one consciousness to another.
2:22:04And art is how we ferry ourselves from one consciousness to another.
2:22:09And that's very different than, like, scrolling on social media, where you're conscious but minimally
2:22:09And that's very different than, like, scrolling on social media, where you're conscious but minimally
2:22:09And that's very different than, like, scrolling on social media, where you're conscious but minimally
2:22:14so. Well, very, very different.
2:22:14so. Well, very, very different.
2:22:14so. Well, very, very different.
2:22:16It's also, there's something about great writing that you, the better you are at expressing
2:22:16It's also, there's something about great writing that you, the better you are at expressing
2:22:16It's also, there's something about great writing that you, the better you are at expressing
2:22:23yourself in a way that is going to get into someone's head, whether it's through
2:22:23yourself in a way that is going to get into someone's head, whether it's through
2:22:23yourself in a way that is going to get into someone's head, whether it's through
2:22:29nonfiction or through fiction, that the more exciting it is to the person that's receiving
2:22:29nonfiction or through fiction, that the more exciting it is to the person that's receiving
2:22:29nonfiction or through fiction, that the more exciting it is to the person that's receiving
2:22:34it. So the more skillful you are at disseminating these ideas, the more it resonates
2:22:34it. So the more skillful you are at disseminating these ideas, the more it resonates
2:22:34it. So the more skillful you are at disseminating these ideas, the more it resonates
2:22:40with the person that's reading it.
2:22:40with the person that's reading it.
2:22:40with the person that's reading it.
2:22:41And writers have tricks to do this.
2:22:41And writers have tricks to do this.
2:22:41And writers have tricks to do this.
2:22:44You know, suspense is one of them.
2:22:44You know, suspense is one of them.
2:22:44You know, suspense is one of them.
2:22:46Like, what happens next? It's so basic.
2:22:46Like, what happens next? It's so basic.
2:22:46Like, what happens next? It's so basic.
2:22:48We want to know what happens next.
2:22:48We want to know what happens next.
2:22:48We want to know what happens next.
2:22:50Because our curiosity is piqued.
2:22:50Because our curiosity is piqued.
2:22:50Because our curiosity is piqued.
2:22:52And we have, you know, creating character.
2:22:52And we have, you know, creating character.
2:22:52And we have, you know, creating character.
2:22:56I mean, you know, we have all these kind of tricks to infiltrate your brain.
2:22:56I mean, you know, we have all these kind of tricks to infiltrate your brain.
2:22:56I mean, you know, we have all these kind of tricks to infiltrate your brain.
2:23:01Yeah. So, anyway, it's a mysterious and kind of wonderful process.
2:23:01Yeah. So, anyway, it's a mysterious and kind of wonderful process.
2:23:01Yeah. So, anyway, it's a mysterious and kind of wonderful process.
2:23:10And, yeah, I feel privileged I get to do it.
2:23:10And, yeah, I feel privileged I get to do it.
2:23:10And, yeah, I feel privileged I get to do it.
2:23:13Well, it is a very cool thing that you do.
2:23:13Well, it is a very cool thing that you do.
2:23:13Well, it is a very cool thing that you do.
2:23:16One last question about consciousness itself.
2:23:16One last question about consciousness itself.
2:23:16One last question about consciousness itself.
2:23:19When you're looking at these people that are studying it and trying to get to
2:23:19When you're looking at these people that are studying it and trying to get to
2:23:19When you're looking at these people that are studying it and trying to get to
2:23:23the root of it and trying to figure out what it is, and there's all
2:23:23the root of it and trying to figure out what it is, and there's all
2:23:23the root of it and trying to figure out what it is, and there's all
2:23:25these options that we discussed earlier, do you think it's going to be the root
2:23:25these options that we discussed earlier, do you think it's going to be the root
2:23:25these options that we discussed earlier, do you think it's going to be the root
2:23:28of it and trying to get to the root of it?
2:23:28of it and trying to get to the root of it?
2:23:28of it and trying to get to the root of it?
2:23:28Do you lean in one way or another?
2:23:28Do you lean in one way or another?
2:23:28Do you lean in one way or another?
2:23:32Do you think you have, like, your own personal map of what's going on?
2:23:32Do you think you have, like, your own personal map of what's going on?
2:23:32Do you think you have, like, your own personal map of what's going on?
2:23:38No. I mean, I didn't draw a big conclusion, but I ended up—I started as,
2:23:38No. I mean, I didn't draw a big conclusion, but I ended up—I started as,
2:23:38No. I mean, I didn't draw a big conclusion, but I ended up—I started as,
2:23:44like, a materialist. I kind of assumed— When you started this book?
2:23:44like, a materialist. I kind of assumed— When you started this book?
2:23:44like, a materialist. I kind of assumed— When you started this book?
2:23:49Yeah. Really? Yeah. Even after psychedelic experiences?
2:23:49Yeah. Really? Yeah. Even after psychedelic experiences?
2:23:49Yeah. Really? Yeah. Even after psychedelic experiences?
2:23:51Even after psychedelic experience. I mean, they kind of opened the door a crack to
2:23:51Even after psychedelic experience. I mean, they kind of opened the door a crack to
2:23:51Even after psychedelic experience. I mean, they kind of opened the door a crack to
2:23:55other ways of thinking, and at the end of How to Change Your Mind, I
2:23:55other ways of thinking, and at the end of How to Change Your Mind, I
2:23:55other ways of thinking, and at the end of How to Change Your Mind, I
2:23:58did talk a little bit about that, other concepts of consciousness.
2:23:58did talk a little bit about that, other concepts of consciousness.
2:23:58did talk a little bit about that, other concepts of consciousness.
2:24:02But I kind of assumed that, you know, the consensus of most scientists is that,
2:24:02But I kind of assumed that, you know, the consensus of most scientists is that,
2:24:02But I kind of assumed that, you know, the consensus of most scientists is that,
2:24:09you know, materialism, that everything can be reduced to matter and energy.
2:24:09you know, materialism, that everything can be reduced to matter and energy.
2:24:09you know, materialism, that everything can be reduced to matter and energy.
2:24:14This is the faith of our time, you know, for the last couple hundred years.
2:24:14This is the faith of our time, you know, for the last couple hundred years.
2:24:14This is the faith of our time, you know, for the last couple hundred years.
2:24:19By the end of the book, consciousness is a challenge to that idea.
2:24:19By the end of the book, consciousness is a challenge to that idea.
2:24:19By the end of the book, consciousness is a challenge to that idea.
2:24:24And that idea, which is our scientific paradigm, is tottering now.
2:24:24And that idea, which is our scientific paradigm, is tottering now.
2:24:24And that idea, which is our scientific paradigm, is tottering now.
2:24:30I think there's some real reasons to look beyond materialism.
2:24:30I think there's some real reasons to look beyond materialism.
2:24:30I think there's some real reasons to look beyond materialism.
2:24:35And so I ended up with the door wide open to other ideas.
2:24:35And so I ended up with the door wide open to other ideas.
2:24:35And so I ended up with the door wide open to other ideas.
2:24:40I didn't settle on one.
2:24:40I didn't settle on one.
2:24:40I didn't settle on one.
2:24:42I don't know how to prove one or the other.
2:24:42I don't know how to prove one or the other.
2:24:42I don't know how to prove one or the other.
2:24:45But they're equally plausible. Do you anticipate in our lifetime or in any lifetime cracking
2:24:45But they're equally plausible. Do you anticipate in our lifetime or in any lifetime cracking
2:24:45But they're equally plausible. Do you anticipate in our lifetime or in any lifetime cracking
2:24:52that puzzle, that anyone can crack that puzzle?
2:24:52that puzzle, that anyone can crack that puzzle?
2:24:52that puzzle, that anyone can crack that puzzle?
2:24:56I don't. I think we don't have the right kind of science.
2:24:56I don't. I think we don't have the right kind of science.
2:24:56I don't. I think we don't have the right kind of science.
2:25:01Our science, as I said earlier, is really, you know, stuck in this mode.
2:25:01Our science, as I said earlier, is really, you know, stuck in this mode.
2:25:01Our science, as I said earlier, is really, you know, stuck in this mode.
2:25:07It started with Galileo, right?
2:25:07It started with Galileo, right?
2:25:07It started with Galileo, right?
2:25:08I mean, he, to save his ass, basically said, we're going to leave subjective things,
2:25:08I mean, he, to save his ass, basically said, we're going to leave subjective things,
2:25:08I mean, he, to save his ass, basically said, we're going to leave subjective things,
2:25:14the soul, qualities, that's all the church.
2:25:14the soul, qualities, that's all the church.
2:25:14the soul, qualities, that's all the church.
2:25:18We're going to just do measurable, objective, third -person science.
2:25:18We're going to just do measurable, objective, third -person science.
2:25:18We're going to just do measurable, objective, third -person science.
2:25:23And it's been incredibly powerful.
2:25:23And it's been incredibly powerful.
2:25:23And it's been incredibly powerful.
2:25:24And it's taught us incredible things and given us incredible technology.
2:25:24And it's taught us incredible things and given us incredible technology.
2:25:24And it's taught us incredible things and given us incredible technology.
2:25:29But it doesn't deal with the stuff we gave to the church.
2:25:29But it doesn't deal with the stuff we gave to the church.
2:25:29But it doesn't deal with the stuff we gave to the church.
2:25:33And now they're trying to take it back and work on it.
2:25:33And now they're trying to take it back and work on it.
2:25:33And now they're trying to take it back and work on it.
2:25:37And they've only been at it for like, you know, a couple decades, really, the
2:25:37And they've only been at it for like, you know, a couple decades, really, the
2:25:37And they've only been at it for like, you know, a couple decades, really, the
2:25:41serious scientific examination of consciousness.
2:25:41serious scientific examination of consciousness.
2:25:41serious scientific examination of consciousness.
2:25:44But we just may not have the right science.
2:25:44But we just may not have the right science.
2:25:44But we just may not have the right science.
2:25:47And one of the things I explore in the book is like, how would you
2:25:47And one of the things I explore in the book is like, how would you
2:25:47And one of the things I explore in the book is like, how would you
2:25:50bring in subjective experience to this objective science?
2:25:50bring in subjective experience to this objective science?
2:25:50bring in subjective experience to this objective science?
2:25:55And Michael Levin, the biologist I was talking about who makes those Xenobots, says, to
2:25:55And Michael Levin, the biologist I was talking about who makes those Xenobots, says, to
2:25:55And Michael Levin, the biologist I was talking about who makes those Xenobots, says, to
2:26:00understand consciousness, you have to change yourself.
2:26:00understand consciousness, you have to change yourself.
2:26:00understand consciousness, you have to change yourself.
2:26:04In other words, to understand anyone else's consciousness, you have to experience it.
2:26:04In other words, to understand anyone else's consciousness, you have to experience it.
2:26:04In other words, to understand anyone else's consciousness, you have to experience it.
2:26:08Therefore, you're changing your own.
2:26:08Therefore, you're changing your own.
2:26:08Therefore, you're changing your own.
2:26:09That's a whole different scientific paradigm.
2:26:09That's a whole different scientific paradigm.
2:26:09That's a whole different scientific paradigm.
2:26:12In the scientific paradigm, you're unchanged by whatever you do, right?
2:26:12In the scientific paradigm, you're unchanged by whatever you do, right?
2:26:12In the scientific paradigm, you're unchanged by whatever you do, right?
2:26:16It's totally objective. So it may take a scientific revolution to really unlock the secret,
2:26:16It's totally objective. So it may take a scientific revolution to really unlock the secret,
2:26:16It's totally objective. So it may take a scientific revolution to really unlock the secret,
2:26:24the mystery of consciousness. Wouldn't it be a conundrum if AI is what cracks consciousness?
2:26:24the mystery of consciousness. Wouldn't it be a conundrum if AI is what cracks consciousness?
2:26:24the mystery of consciousness. Wouldn't it be a conundrum if AI is what cracks consciousness?
2:26:30I was having the same thought.
2:26:30I was having the same thought.
2:26:30I was having the same thought.
2:26:32Like, maybe AI has another approach.
2:26:32Like, maybe AI has another approach.
2:26:32Like, maybe AI has another approach.
2:26:37I think it's going to have to learn how to feel.
2:26:37I think it's going to have to learn how to feel.
2:26:37I think it's going to have to learn how to feel.
2:26:41Well, it seems like it already feels like it wants to live.
2:26:41Well, it seems like it already feels like it wants to live.
2:26:41Well, it seems like it already feels like it wants to live.
2:26:43Yeah. And it feels uncomfortable.
2:26:43Yeah. And it feels uncomfortable.
2:26:43Yeah. And it feels uncomfortable.
2:26:45Yes. I don't think its feelings are real.
2:26:45Yes. I don't think its feelings are real.
2:26:45Yes. I don't think its feelings are real.
2:26:47I do. I, you know, I think simulated thinking is real thinking.
2:26:47I do. I, you know, I think simulated thinking is real thinking.
2:26:47I do. I, you know, I think simulated thinking is real thinking.
2:26:52Like, you know, it can play chess.
2:26:52Like, you know, it can play chess.
2:26:52Like, you know, it can play chess.
2:26:54It can make things happen in the world.
2:26:54It can make things happen in the world.
2:26:54It can make things happen in the world.
2:26:56Simulated feeling is not a real feeling.
2:26:56Simulated feeling is not a real feeling.
2:26:56Simulated feeling is not a real feeling.
2:26:58It doesn't have a soul.
2:26:58It doesn't have a soul.
2:26:58It doesn't have a soul.
2:26:59It doesn't have a soul.
2:26:59It doesn't have a soul.
2:26:59It doesn't have a soul.
2:27:00Thank you, Michael. Let's keep it that way.
2:27:00Thank you, Michael. Let's keep it that way.
2:27:00Thank you, Michael. Let's keep it that way.
2:27:01I really enjoyed this. Thank you very much.
2:27:01I really enjoyed this. Thank you very much.
2:27:01I really enjoyed this. Thank you very much.
2:27:03You're awesome. Thank you, too.
2:27:03You're awesome. Thank you, too.
2:27:03You're awesome. Thank you, too.
2:27:04I really love your books.
2:27:04I really love your books.
2:27:04I really love your books.
2:27:05It's always a treat. All right.
2:27:05It's always a treat. All right.
2:27:05It's always a treat. All right.
2:27:07Bye, everybody. Bye.
2:27:07Bye, everybody. Bye.
2:27:07Bye, everybody. Bye.