The Karol Markowicz Show: Kimberly Ross on Women, Work, Motherhood & the “Tradwife” Debate
4/1/202622 mincomplete
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0:17Call 844 -844 -iHeart. Hi, and welcome back to The Carol Markowitz Show on iHeart
0:28Radio. My guest today is Kimberly Ross.
0:31Kimberly is an opinion writer for Washington Examiner and the Magnolia Tribune.
0:35Hi, Kimberly. So nice to have you on.
0:38Hi, Carol. Thank you so much for having me.
0:39Glad to be here. So I've been reading you for a very long time, and
0:43I'd love to know more about you and how you got into this, you know,
0:46what I call this thing of ours.
0:48What was your start here?
0:52It's interesting. I've always been interested in politics and news, even from a young age.
0:57I remember my parents always had the news on, and I loved hearing about the
1:01world, the bigger world around me, whether it was politics or just culture or something.
1:05So news has always been something I've been interested in.
1:08And I was one of those teenagers who liked to watch the State of the
1:11Union, you know, one of those really weird teenagers who did that and then, like,
1:15watched election returns and stuff.
1:17So I always wanted to be involved in politics or news in some way.
1:21Um, but after high school, I went to college.
1:24I went to community college for two years to try to kind of figure out
1:27what I wanted to do.
1:28And I was an elementary education major for one semester, and I realized very quickly
1:34that I was not made to be a teacher in a room of, like, 22
1:37elementary school kids. I hear you on that.
1:40So many people are really good at that, and I am not one of those
1:43people. I'm impressed by those people.
1:45I just do not have that trait.
1:47Yeah. It is so not me.
1:48Um, so I knew I wanted to pursue politics, um, after that, something in that
1:53field. Um, so I, I majored in history.
1:56Um, and then after my bachelor's, I went to grad school and did grad school
2:01work in political science. I haven't finished my, um, master's yet, but I'd like to
2:05go back and finish that someday.
2:06Um, but I did, I did focus on that in college and stuff.
2:10Um, then ended up getting married.
2:12I met my husband online.
2:14Oh, wow. Yeah. Well, in the dark days of internet dating way back in like
2:192007 and everything. Um, so after we got married, I was working full time while
2:23he was finishing his grad school degree.
2:26And I knew I wanted to start writing about politics because I had done so
2:29much writing in college with history and, and things like that.
2:32Um, so I was like, I think I would like to try my hand at
2:35doing opinion writing and see how it goes from there.
2:37So I started my own little blog on medium in 2014.
2:40I had like 24 reads, like my first post.
2:44So what was it called?
2:45Um, I, I forget, I actually forget what I call my blog, but it was
2:50been so long ago. Um, but I started writing and then being connected on Twitter
2:55way back then. Um, I networked and stuff and got connected with Eric Erickson and
3:01he invited me to write for red state as a front page contributor, um, in
3:042015. So I started writing there in 2015 and it just kind of took off
3:08from there. Um, and then I started writing for examiner as a contributor in 2018.
3:13I've been contributing to them ever since very regularly.
3:17Um, and a few other places I've contributed to here and there.
3:20So it was a path I didn't expect to be on, but I am very
3:24passionate about it. I love doing it.
3:27Um, and I'm glad to be here.
3:29What is the Magnolia Tribune?
3:30Um, it is a, an online site based in Mississippi, um, that does a regional,
3:36but also kind of national and international.
3:38There's opinion writing, there's local news, things like that.
3:41Yeah. I feel like local news sites are just so lacking.
3:46Uh, I don't know. I guess they, it's very hard to make money with them.
3:49I mean, that has to be what the, what the issue is, but I'd love
3:52to read sort of local opinion writing in my area.
3:56I just don't think it exists.
3:57I mean, I've looked for it before.
3:58It really, and if you do find it, it's usually like kooky.
4:04It's very, very local. Yes, exactly.
4:08But I love that. Um, so how did you and your husband meet?
4:11What was the online meeting in 2007?
4:14That's a long, I mean, that's early days.
4:17Yeah. It was. And like, when people talk about online dating now, I'm like, it
4:20was not apps back then.
4:22We had to log in online, right?
4:24The desktop at the end of the day after work and do that whole thing.
4:28We met on eHarmony and he was living about 45 minutes away, going to the
4:32University of Illinois. Cause I'm from Illinois.
4:34Um, and he was going to school there and I was like, you know, he's
4:37interesting. I'd like to meet him and everything.
4:38And not kidding from the first date.
4:41I was like, okay, I think this is it.
4:43Wow. Wow. Ever since then.
4:45That's amazing. I mean, people say that like, oh, I think this is it, but
4:48then it's not it. It's like amazing what it is actually.
4:51And I also, I, those eHarmony ads, I love them.
4:55They were always so like, you know, I have this joke with my husband.
4:58I never did online dating.
4:59Like I just missed the era of that completely.
5:01And not that I, you know, miss it, but it's, it's, it's just, I don't
5:06feel part of the zeitgeist because I don't know what it was actually like.
5:09And I always say to my husband, like, you know, had you and I not
5:12worked out, I would have, I would have been right on eHarmony.
5:16Their ads got me. Yes.
5:18And nowadays everyone's talking about like swiping and I have no idea what that's like
5:22because we had to fill out like questionnaires on eHarmony.
5:25It's like old school. Like in -depth, right?
5:27It can't be like one word answers.
5:30No, no, in -depth, very in -depth.
5:32It's funny because I actually, when I think about it, I think either you have
5:35to go in -depth like that or you have to go very superficial, just, you
5:40know, picture and three words and like, it's like seeing someone across the room.
5:45So either you're like marriage minded or you're, you can still get married when you
5:48spot someone across the room, but it's just a very basic meeting.
5:53It's so different. Do you have something that you consider your beat?
6:00I, well, I've really been focused for many years now writing about abortion and life
6:06issues and stuff and definitely family issues, women's issues from a conservative perspective, of course.
6:13Right. Those for sure are big things that I like to discuss.
6:17Yeah. Do you find that you get a lot of pushback for stuff like that?
6:22I feel like women's issues are, you know, some of the toughest things to write
6:26about because women get kind of crazy about anybody opposing their leftist opinion.
6:31Yeah, for sure. I had a magazine feature at Examiner recently where I talk about
6:36the girl boss and the trad wife.
6:38I read that. That was really good.
6:40Thank you so much because I kind of feel like we're pushed to be, oh,
6:44you need to be a girl boss.
6:45Right. Like the leftists are telling us to do that.
6:47I'm not a girl boss.
6:49Like that's not my position or my role.
6:51And then there's like this online influencer crowd that's all like the trad wife stuff.
6:55Yeah. And I think a lot of it is performative in nature, but I don't
6:58fit into that either. And I think most women don't.
7:01We're like straddling both lines and we're trying to just do what's best for our
7:05family. Right. So yeah, writing about that, I feel like people are really like, especially
7:09leftists, if you talk about how women's role, a woman's role isn't like providing for
7:14her children and, you know, being a partner to her husband and stuff.
7:17Like that's, they don't like that, but it's worth talking about because that's what it
7:22should be. Right. And I feel like there's, nobody really fits into those two models,
7:28like the girl boss or the trad wife.
7:30First of all, the online trad wife requires an amount of effort that I just
7:34don't even understand. And that's even before, you know, you set up all your tripods
7:39and your lighting and you have the perfect background for it and you have to
7:42make sure everything's clean. Like I'm recording right now with a bunch of toys around
7:46me. Um, but you know, and I don't think the, the girl boss thing is
7:50right either. I mean, I certainly doesn't describe me.
7:54I work, you know, only X number of hours, but I, not a full time
7:57for sure. And I'm not girl bossing at all, but you, I feel like women
8:02always wanted to have the balance.
8:05And now it's like, we're pushed to pick one or the other.
8:09And it's almost by the right, right?
8:11Like it used to be leftists who would say, you know, pick one of these,
8:14these are the only two paths.
8:15Um, but now it seems like the right is heading in that direction.
8:19Yeah. And that's exactly why I wanted to write about it.
8:21Cause I feel the push from the right a lot now, because like you said,
8:25I'm not, I'm not a trad wife.
8:27I'm not a girl boss, but it's not like I'm failing as a woman or
8:30as a mother, as a wife in the role I'm in.
8:33No one else's life looks like mine.
8:35It doesn't, no one else's life looks like yours.
8:36And it doesn't mean that we're not living up to what we should be doing
8:39as a woman. And there's also all this messaging to conservative men.
8:44Like your wife has to submit to you.
8:46Your wife has to be a trad wife, but she also has to have a
8:48job because she can't be a freeloader.
8:50And you know, there's all this, like, I feel like men, young men are being
8:55sold this complete lie. And the Andrew Tates of the world are like, don't get
9:00married. Marriage is for suckers.
9:01You know, marriage is gay.
9:02Marrying a woman is gay.
9:05Yeah, it's definitely, there's a lot of, so much of it is online.
9:10And I don't know how much that translates to like the real world.
9:13I think a lot of it is internet subculture identities and everything.
9:17But like you said, you don't fit into that role either.
9:19And someone on the left would be like, oh, you need to be more of
9:22a girl boss. Right. But that's not your life.
9:25No, thanks. The right would be like, well, you shouldn't be doing, you know, you
9:28shouldn't be talking or writing podcasts and stuff.
9:31No, but that is your role and you're great at it.
9:34And that doesn't mean you're abandoning anything else.
9:37Yeah. I feel like my kids see me enough, you know.
9:41What would you have done if this hadn't worked out?
9:45I actually, when I was working full time while my husband was in school, I
9:49was a paralegal. And I really, I actually really enjoyed that because I like the
9:54detail of it. And I like being kind of me doing something on my own,
9:59not a part of a group.
10:00I'm not against group work, but I would prefer doing my own thing.
10:04And I really liked that aspect of being a paralegal.
10:08It was, it was enjoyable.
10:09So I would, I'd probably continue down that path.
10:11Um, I don't know if I would go back to school and do some other
10:15career or something, but I really liked doing that while my husband was in school.
10:19I was also a paralegal and I hated the detail, the details of it.
10:24It actually drove me bananas.
10:25Like I, I remember like the day I, that my whole career ended for me
10:30was I argued, spent a whole day arguing, and I'm sure you've had days like
10:33this where you argued over the word may or the word can, like which of
10:37those goes into the document.
10:39And I was like, I can't take this.
10:41I need, I need big picture.
10:43I can't have can and may be what I focus on for an entire day.
10:47Um, but it was a, it's actually a great job to teach you how to
10:51do lots of other. jobs.
10:53I think that being a paralegal right out of college taught me, it did teach
10:57me detail orientated, taught me how to write.
11:00It taught me how to be organized.
11:01It taught me a lot of things that college didn't teach me.
11:06Did you find that? Yeah, I found that too.
11:09And I would say the biggest lesson for me was I had a really tough
11:13boss at the job that was at the longest and it was a female lawyer
11:17and she pushed back so hard on everything and really took me to like the
11:22brink of like understanding what I could do and how I could respond to things
11:28and situations. And I think it was really good for me coming from not experiencing
11:33that, of course, in college to then experiencing that on, you know, in a workplace
11:37and stuff. And you have to figure out how to work with someone who is
11:39very difficult. It is a great lesson.
11:42Yeah. I feel like we, the kids now kind of have a softer situation where
11:47people aren't difficult bosses anymore because the kids are going to cry.
11:51And, you know, I just, I, Gen Z is definitely coddled a little.
11:55I mean, I thought this of millennials too.
11:57I guess I'm just old and grumpy, like get off my lawn, you know, you
12:01kids these days, you know, but I don't know.
12:05I think they, they expect a lot that we didn't, or I didn't expect in
12:10my generation at all. For sure.
12:13Yeah. And I'm an, I'm an older millennial.
12:15I was born in 1982.
12:16So I do not relate to the young children at all.
12:20I mean, I kind of would love a Gen X, like adopt me just like
12:23a little bit. Yeah. I think you're in, you know, I'm 77.
12:28It's like, you know, if you want to be part of our thing, you're welcome.
12:31Thank you. What are you most proud of in your life?
12:36Definitely being a mom. Because how many kids?
12:40I have two kids. For the longest time, I didn't know if I was going
12:43to be able to be a mom.
12:44Um, after my husband was done with his schooling and stuff, then we decided to
12:48start a family. And, and I've told people this since then, especially younger people, just
12:53because you want to start a family, you think it's going to happen immediately.
12:56It does not mean that it's going to happen immediately.
12:58Um, I dealt with infertility for about four or five years.
13:02Um, and I, I was not expecting that at all.
13:04Right. I have no reason to believe that that would be the path to motherhood
13:09and pregnancy and stuff. Um, but I did deal with that for about five years
13:12and we finally had our oldest when I was 34.
13:15Um, and then I had my second when I was 38.
13:18So I have a five -year -old and I'm 43.
13:21And would I have preferred maybe to have a five -year -old when I was
13:24like 30? Sure. Sure. That's not how life turned out.
13:27Right. Um, but my favorite thing in the world is being a mom.
13:31I love seeing them grow and learn and helping them along the way and navigate
13:35this world and everything. And our oldest has a speech delay.
13:38And I've talked about that on Twitter more than once.
13:41Um, and it's so wonderful to see him overcome certain things.
13:45And he's been in speech therapy.
13:47He's nine years old now.
13:48He's been in speech therapy since he was two.
13:49And the other day he told me, mom, you, you always tell me I can
13:53do hard things. Yeah. I believe that I can.
13:56And that, I mean, what better thing in the world?
14:00Yeah. Your child say that to you.
14:02So being a mom is my favorite.
14:04Yeah. I love that. We're friends with a family who that's their family motto.
14:08You can do hard things.
14:09And I just love that so much.
14:11Um, I, I also, I had my third child at 38 and I, and you
14:14know what, I didn't even, I mean, I didn't, I did not have fertility problems.
14:18I just got married a little later and, you know, every child was, uh, spaced
14:22a little bit, but so it happens when it happens, you know, um, I, I
14:26think about, you know, would I have loved to have them earlier?
14:29Sure. But again, timing just happens when it happens.
14:34Right. And that's another thing that like the trad wife crowd pushes like to have
14:39kids went in your twenties.
14:40That's not how it worked out for me.
14:42Right. It doesn't mean that I was like not wanting to be a mom.
14:44It just, that's not what happened.
14:46And it, so like assuming that a woman doesn't want to have children or her
14:50priorities are wrong because of when she has kids is just, that's not true.
14:55Absolutely. I would have had kids with the wrong people in my twenties.
14:58I mean, and I dated good boys, but I just, I, they were not the
15:02future husband fathers for me.
15:05And I think that that, again, it happens when it happens and we could try
15:09to control for some of it.
15:10Look, I tell my kids, obviously, like if you meet your person in your twenties,
15:14don't wait till you're in your thirties to then get married and have children, like,
15:17you know, do it, do it when you meet the person.
15:19But if you don't meet the person for a while, don't go having kids with
15:23randos. No, definitely not. Yeah.
15:28We're going to take a quick break and be right back on the Carol Markowitz
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16:01That's I heart advertising .com.
16:05Give us a five year out prediction and it could be about anything at all.
16:11I have two things. One is kind of a funny one.
16:14I love the movie, the Batman that Robert Pattinson was in recently.
16:18And they keep saying that there's going to be.
16:20sequel and i think in five years we'll still not have a sequel really why
16:24because they keep like pushing the script like they keep redoing the script keep getting
16:31um new actors or something um cast in it and it just it feels like
16:35it's never going to happen and i know that's like i like this prediction no
16:38this is interesting yeah it's such it's like he's the emo batman and it's such
16:43a fun movie um and he's gonna be like 50 by then i know like
16:48yeah he's gonna be like 15 it's just not gonna work yeah um my other
16:51prediction is that i just feel like we are going to keep going along this
16:55path of focusing on interacting with people online and kind of like a social media
17:01way i'm sure you've seen these polls too people are more connected than ever but
17:06like the loneliness is off the charts in terms of like especially gen z who's
17:11you know they're in the thick of it and stuff and i just think if
17:14we don't change direction it's only going to be worse we're going to think we're
17:18more connected in five years right people are going to feel more the depression is
17:22going to be off the charts the loneliness um i mean even like teenagers they
17:26don't get their license as much as they used to right i've seen that um
17:29so i mean touching grass we say that all the time all the time yeah
17:33you need to do it more than ever i think especially as like ai continues
17:37to grow like it's it's a push that we really need to encourage our kids
17:41to do and adults yeah for sure you know i this show has a advice
17:46component and like you know for better living and and i just kind of try
17:50to keep it not just straight politics and i have to say the number one
17:53thing that people write into me for i mean and i'm talking number one like
17:57it's 90 of the emails i get are something around how to form relationships how
18:02do i make friends how do my kids make friends how does you know how
18:05does my grown son make friends it's it's very hard when you feel like everyone
18:10around you knows how to do it and you maybe you don't um and a
18:14lot of my advice is not earth -shattering i remember one person wrote in to
18:18me was like you know how do i make friends don't tell me to join
18:21a running club the truth is that's how you make friends you do things you
18:27you go out and you have activities and you and it's hard and it's annoying
18:31and you might people meet people you don't like at first and then you'll have
18:34to like keep trying and then you know somebody that you didn't like becomes someone
18:38that you do like and that's what life is like and i think we've fooled
18:42people into believing that you could just be swiping and you could find your perfect
18:47people and it takes no effort and it's so easy and you could just design
18:51your perfect person online and that's just not what the world is like even with
18:56all of our technology the the whole outside your door thing is the way that
19:00i described it and not that perfect thing that you look for on the internet
19:04exactly that is fascinating to me that that's like 90 percent of what people say
19:09to you i mean it makes sense considering the kind of social media obsessed internet
19:13obsessed world we're in but yeah i mean you have you have to get off
19:17the online world if you want any sort of communication interaction connection with other people
19:22for sure that's really i mean i i use touch grass on here a lot
19:27but really go outside go touch some grass go be part of a community it's
19:32not always going to be amazing but you know work towards it and yeah it'll
19:36be good i have loved this conversation kimberly you're really interesting and i really liked
19:41getting to know you a little bit better leave us here with your best tip
19:45for my listeners on how they can improve their lives i was talking to my
19:50husband about this the other day i think not caring what people think of you
19:55in general is a superpower it so is yeah you're so powerful and i know
20:00it kind of takes a while to get there um it's different for everyone but
20:03it kind of takes a while to get there in life it took me definitely
20:07past my 20s to kind of feel like that but and it's not that you
20:11should be cruel or something when you're sharing your opinions or interacting and stuff but
20:15if you genuinely don't care about what other people think about your opinions or your
20:20perspective on life or your religion or your dynamic it it does it makes everything
20:26so much better it really is a superpower you feel freer in terms of discussing
20:31things with people making friends with people because you can agree to disagree with people
20:35but you don't have to be so nervous or scared that they don't like you
20:39because you're presenting yourself in an unvarnished way and you can do that without being
20:44scared and i just really think once people get there it's like i should have
20:49been here the whole time yeah it definitely takes a lot of life to get
20:53to that point i think absolutely and you know you could be more honest and
20:57what's the point otherwise if you can't be yourself what are you living for what
21:01the pretending to have an opinion that you don't actually have and i've seen so
21:04many people do this you know where they they say one thing and then they
21:08kind of whisper to me but like actually i'm on your side with this like
21:11you could say it out loud during the pandemic that was really a popular thing
21:16where somebody would be like you should mask up and then they would tweet at
21:18me like i actually don't think masks work um so yeah yeah i mean yeah
21:24live your life and be yourself is such a powerful message still today um despite
21:32it all you know the the idea that you if you can't say what you
21:35actually think you're not free and i think it's pointless and i feel like especially
21:41conservatives we're we're kind of told we have to be quiet you know in the
21:44world where that's dominated by a legacy media that's on the left and stuff.
21:48And it's okay. If people don't like what you say, it's fine.
21:51That's the worst thing that's going to happen.
21:52You're okay. It's fine. If people don't like you, it really is okay.
21:56It's totally fine. You're going to be okay.
21:59She is Kimberly Ross. Read her at the Washington Examiner and at the Magnolia Tribune.
22:03Thank you so much, Kimberly.
22:05Thank you so much for having me.