Inside Trump’s Pentagon Threat to Pope Leo XIV
4/9/202622 mincomplete
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0:26Search ComBank Tech Careers. Pope Leo XIV is absolutely furious at Donald Trump and the
0:35Trump regime and their behavior.
0:37As we previously reported, Pope Leo has called off all visits essentially to the United
0:43States on the 250th United States anniversary.
0:47July 4th, Pope Leo made a point that he will be in Lampedusa in Italy,
0:52spending his time showing compassion for the migrant community there.
0:57And we're learning some additional details as Pope Leo XIV has been calling out Donald
1:02Trump and his despicable regimes, imperialist and tactics of saying we're going to obliterate civilizations
1:09and everything is going to war.
1:11We're going to obliterate you and destroy everything.
1:14Pope Leo XIV has been calling that out.
1:18And, you know, J .D.
1:18Vance, who converted to Catholicism, and Pete Hegseth, who invokes God all the time.
1:24Pope Leo XIV has been pretty much directing messages without necessarily saying their names.
1:29But it's clear he's calling them out.
1:31And so what the Trump regime tried to do, and this was a tactic that
1:36Hitler did with the bishops right before Hitler engaged, you know, in the Holocaust or
1:41right around that time, is to threaten Pope Leo XIV and to threaten the Holy
1:46See with the United States military.
1:49And essentially, the same way the Trump regime was threatening to invade Greenland, right behind
1:56the scenes, what we're learning today is that the United States was making threats that
2:02suggested that they would use military force against the Holy See, against the Vatican, against
2:07Pope Leo XIV. And they summoned Pope Leo XIV, like, Ben, what are you talking
2:12about? Yes, they summoned Pope Leo XIV's top American diplomat to the Pentagon, which now
2:19calls itself unlawfully the Department of War.
2:22The Undersecretary of War, Elbridge Colby, invoked the Avignon papacy, the period when the French
2:31crown used military force to bend the Bishop of Rome to its will.
2:37And they said that we have the power.
2:40This is what the Trump regime said to Pope Leo XIV's top diplomat in the
2:44United States, that we have the military power to do whatever we want.
2:50Whatever we want, we will do in the world.
2:53And Pope Leo XIV, he needs to know that.
2:56So the Catholic Church has better to better take sides, and they better take the
3:01right side. Now, this meeting that took place that I just referenced was in January,
3:05and it followed Pope Leo XIV's speech, which was kind of a state of the
3:10world speech that he gives.
3:11And as Christopher Hale writes, in the speech that enraged Pete Hegseth and top Pentagon
3:17officials, Pope Leo XIV said, A diplomacy that promotes dialogue and seeks consensus among all
3:24parties is being replaced by a diplomacy based on force.
3:29War is back in vogue, and a zeal for war is spreading.
3:33The principle established after the Second World War, which prohibited nations from using force to
3:39violate the borders of others, has been completely undermined.
3:44And since Pope Leo XIV essentially had his life threatened and the life of the
3:50cardinals and bishops and others in the Holy See threatened by the Trump regime, Pope
3:55Leo XIV has not backed down at all.
3:58During this unlawful and catastrophic war in Iran, where at the end Donald Trump completely
4:04folded, Pope Leo XIV directed this message to Pete Hegseth.
4:08Jesus is the king of peace who rejects war, whom no one can use to
4:13justify war. He does not listen to the prayers of those who wage war, but
4:17rejects them. Even though you make many prayers, God will not listen.
4:23Your hands are full of blood.
4:25In other words, Pete Hegseth, stop invoking the name of God and Jesus in your
4:30war crimes because they are not listening.
4:33Also, Pope Leo XIV is saying that the type of thinking of Hegseth and J
4:39.D. Vance is entirely foreign to the way of Jesus Christ.
4:44The Pope argues that Christianity has been distorted by a desire for domination, warning that
4:50people mistake power for righteousness.
4:53Quote, we consider ourselves powerful when we dominate, victorious when we destroy.
4:59Instead, he says, God's example is not how to dominate, but how to give life.
5:04And adds that Jesus does not listen to the prayers of those who wage war.
5:08And take a look at some of the posts that Pope Leo XIV.
5:11has been making lately. He says the cross is part of the mission.
5:16The imperialist occupation of the world is disrupted from within the violence that until now
5:21has been the law is unmasked.
5:24The poor imprisoned and rejected Messiah descends into the darkness of death.
5:29Yet in doing so, he brings in a new creation.
5:32He also writes death is always lurking.
5:34We see it in violence, in the wounds of the world, in the cry of
5:37pain that rises from every corner because of the abuses that crush the weakest among
5:42us because of the idolatry of profit that plunders the earth's resources because of the
5:49violence of war that kills and destroys.
5:52He then writes again, these are messages that seem obviously directed at Trump and Hegseth
5:57and Vance and this entire Trump regime.
5:59Often the proclamation of truth is obscured by what we today call fake news, lies,
6:05insinuations, and unfounded accusations. Yet in the face of such obstacles, the truth does not
6:11remain hidden. Rather, it comes forth to meet us, living and radiant, illuminating, even in
6:17the deepest and darkness and the deepest and darkest hours.
6:21Now, I think when Pope Leo XIV was ultimately made the Pope, lots of people
6:27and became the Pope, lots of people were looking at his background.
6:30The first American Pope born and raised in the United States of America and then
6:34obviously studying and traveling abroad and rising through the ranks of the Catholic Church abroad.
6:41But I think someone who was known that would stand up against the exact type
6:47of things that Donald Trump is engaging in now, and he has not shied away
6:51from it. Remember when Donald Trump had the, he's still having it, but when the
6:56ICE and Border Patrol, Gestapo were rounding up and killing and murdering and maiming people
7:02in the streets, you had Pope Leo XIV standing up, speaking out, coordinating with cardinals
7:10in the United States and bishops and the church.
7:13And the church got really active, as you remember.
7:16I mean, going into the, build the immigration, federal immigration buildings.
7:22I mean, being there, demanding that they be able to pray with the individuals who
7:27were kidnapped and administer mass.
7:29All of that was happening.
7:30And Pope Leo XIV was behind it all.
7:33And he was directing it.
7:35I mean, just to show you some other data points.
7:37I mean, this was Pete Hegseth.
7:39This was Hegseth yesterday, invoking the name of God over and over again, in terms
7:45of threatening the entire civilization of Iran with genocide.
7:49Here, play this clip. Our troops, our American warriors deserve the credit for this day,
7:56but God deserves all the glory.
7:59Tens of thousands of sorties, refuelings and strikes carried out under the protection of divine
8:05providence, a massive effort with miraculous protection.
8:11Dude 44 Bravo spoke for all of us.
8:15God is good. Then you had J .D.
8:20Vance on the tarmac after trying to prop up Victor Orban, Putin's puppet.
8:25J .D. Vance was saying that he doesn't even know who Cardinal Christophe Pierre is
8:31and has no clue about any of these people.
8:34And we don't know about the threats that were taking place by the Defense Department
8:38threatening essentially war, threatening to attack and invade the Holy See and go back to
8:45the Avignon Papacy in the 13th century.
8:48This is what J .D.
8:49Vance. I don't know. I don't know if you're playing this clip.
8:51X has been a buzz the last couple of days of the free press story
8:54saying that senior Pentagon officials in January, including Rich Colby, brought Cardinal Pierre into the
9:01Pentagon. Brought who? Cardinal Christophe Pierre.
9:04Okay. Into the Pentagon. I haven't seen the story, unfortunately.
9:07Essentially, the reporting by the free press is that they told him that the American
9:11military has a lot of might and they can do whatever they want and the
9:14church should get on its side.
9:16Does that message sound correct to you?
9:18Is that something you would sign off on?
9:20So one, I with no disrespect to the Cardinal, I don't know who Cardinal Christophe
9:24Pierre is. He's the ambassador to the Holy See and the U .S.
9:27Oh, okay. Okay. I've met him before.
9:29Sorry. I just didn't remember the name.
9:32I've never seen this reporting.
9:34I'd like to actually talk to Cardinal Christophe Pierre and frankly, to our people to
9:38figure out what actually happened.
9:39I think it's always a bad idea to offer an opinion on stories that are
9:44unconfirmed and uncorroborated. So I'm not going to do that.
9:47Well, I'll tell you what I'm going to do.
9:48I'm going to bring in Christopher Hale and I've cited Christopher Hale stories and reporting
9:53before. He's got the sub stack letters from Leo, the American Pope and U .S.
9:59politics. And, you know, look, I understand as well that our audience spans lots of
10:05religions from Catholic to Christianity, to Muslims, to Jews, to Hindu, to no religion.
10:15And the main kind of core principle that we talked about here at the Midas
10:19Dutch Network, though, is empathy.
10:20It's love. It's bringing people together, whatever religion or no religion.
10:25It's about bringing people together.
10:27And to me, Donald Trump's all about dividing and attacking.
10:31And I think regardless of what your religion is, I think we can objectively look
10:38at what Pope Leo, the fourth.
10:39has demonstrated with his leadership and standing up to Donald Trump and recognizing there's a
10:46great deal of power in that.
10:47And that's why the Trump regime was so intimidated and threatened him.
10:51You have great sourcing inside the Vatican in Washington, D .C., and you seem to
10:57know everything that's going on as it relates to the intersection of the church and
11:03U .S. politics and the church.
11:04Generally, you were handling Catholic outreach for Obama.
11:08You've written for Time magazine and other periodicals about the church and about.
11:13So talk to us about this incident.
11:15And let's talk more broadly about Pope Leo XIV standing up to Trump.
11:19But talk to us about what your sources are telling you about this incident.
11:23Well, I must say that this report originated with the free press and we were
11:27able to confirm it throughout the day.
11:28But here's how the story goes.
11:30In early January, Cardinal Christophe Pierre, as you mentioned, who was up until last month,
11:37Pope Leo's personal nuncio, which is Vatican's feat for ambassador to the United States, was
11:43strangely called not to the State Department, mind you.
11:47He is a diplomat, but actually directly to the Pentagon, which is strange in itself.
11:52And then while he was there at the Pentagon, there was a meeting with the
11:57Undersecretary of State. And in this meeting, it suggested that the Cardinal Christophe Pierre, that
12:04they were upset with Pope Leo XIV's early January address to the Vatican, to the
12:09diplomatic corps, the Holy See, where he said that war is back in vogue.
12:15There is a zeal for war and that the rule of law regarding the territory
12:20of nations have been violated.
12:22Mind you, this speech took place days after Trump's invasion of Venezuela.
12:28So the administration was correct to read this as a critique of their policy, obviously
12:34global in nature, but yes, of what they had done in Venezuela and what they
12:37were threatening at that point to do in Greenland and what they've done now in
12:41Iran just months later. So when he came in, it was tense.
12:47And one of the diplomats suggested, brought up the Avignon Papacy, which you mentioned earlier.
12:54For your readers, the Avignon Papacy was this 14th century phenomenon where the French regime
13:00was upset with the papacy.
13:03So not only did they influence the papacy, they kidnapped the Pope, Pope Boniface.
13:10They kidnapped and in fact killed him, murdered him.
13:13And so it was a stunning suggestion to be made to bring up in this
13:18meeting. And Cardinal Christophe Pierre from our sourcing takes this information back to the Holy
13:24See, back to the Vatican.
13:25And there have been discussions about Pope Leo XIV coming to the United States this
13:30year. And that was put on ice.
13:32And from what I can understand, it's been put on ice indefinitely.
13:36There's some thoughts that he might come here in 2027.
13:40I honestly do not think we'll see Pope Leo in the United States until after
13:44Donald Trump leaves the presidency.
13:46You know, when he's picking to go to Lampedusa on July 4th, that's the island
13:51right by Italy, which is known as a hub of migration, which is kind of
13:58used there in Italy by politicians and other anti -immigrant groups over there as kind
14:06of the way certain locations in the southern border here in the United States are,
14:10you know, and it's kind of this been used to kind of attack migrants.
14:15And I think a message is being sent that on your July 4th, 250th anniversary
14:21day, when J .D. Vance hand delivered that letter during the visit to Rome.
14:28I remember the video that you shared with it as well of Pope Leo XIV.
14:33An awkward encounter, wasn't it?
14:34It was an awkward encounter.
14:36Yeah. Talk to us about that.
14:38And then basically rejecting the visit.
14:41I mean, I'm not sure.
14:42Talk to us about that.
14:44Yeah. So Pope Leo was inaugurated last May, May 18th.
14:49And J .D. Vance comes to see Pope Leo.
14:52Mind you, J .D. Vance was the last person ever to see Pope Francis, the
14:56last leader to see Pope Francis.
14:57So he met two popes within days of each other.
15:01And he delivers a letter.
15:04There's some contests about exactly what was in the letter, but it was to invite
15:10Pope Leo to the United States this year for the 250th anniversary of our country.
15:17And Leo takes the letter.
15:18And it's an awkward encounter.
15:21Maybe you can drop in the show notes, but he puts the letter away and
15:25says, I'll take a look at that later.
15:27And, but there was talk about the Pope coming for the 250th anniversary.
15:32But after this meeting that occurred, that was taken off the table, and you spoke
15:39about Lampedusa. And one of the things that you talked about it being a point
15:43of entry is a point of entry between North Africa in the Mediterranean Sea and
15:48Italy and Europe. But it's also a very poignant point in the history of the
15:53Catholic Church. Pope Francis, that was his first trip outside of Rome.
15:57He went there in July of 2013.
16:00And he said that a very famous homily, he said, we are a people who
16:05have forgotten how to weep.
16:07We are a people who have forgotten how to weep.
16:07for the sufferings of others.
16:09So he's doing two things.
16:11He's going, he's making a point of statement to be there on the 4th of
16:15July. And he's also honoring his predecessor, who notably said that Donald Trump isn't Christian.
16:21He did that. He said that in response to Donald Trump's 2016 campaign, his efforts
16:27to build the wall, which of course was what he ran on in 2016.
16:31So it's this dual message.
16:33But I think maybe what's maybe not known to your listeners is that he's actually
16:37going to speak to the United States.
16:39He's received a Liberty Medal award from Philadelphia, the city of Philadelphia on July 3rd.
16:47If you go and look through those, the previous recipients of them, they're progressive heroes
16:52and icons for the Asians.
16:54So he's going to have a message for the United States.
16:57Albeit it will be mobile.
16:59It'll be remote on July 3rd.
17:01And then he'll be in Lampedusa on July 4th.
17:04I am very excited for the front page of the newspaper above the fold, below
17:09the fold, because truly Leo will offer counter messaging to what Donald Trump and J
17:15.D. Vance and what dribble they might offer those days.
17:18He's smart. This man consumes media, consumes English media.
17:22He understands how to play the media in the United States.
17:25He understands how it works.
17:28And what I find fascinating is that when Leo speaks, when he wants to say
17:32something important, he says it in English.
17:35And for Catholics, we know, we associate the man in the white with being very
17:39good at Italian, pretty good at Spanish, and not very good at English.
17:43This is the history of the papacy.
17:45It's remarkable to hear a pope speak fluent, natural, native English.
17:50And when he wants to say something important, he says it in English, and it
17:54gets picked up here. You know, and finally, you've been reporting how Pope Leo XIV
17:59has been able to successfully organize, whether it's cardinals, bishops, all different ranks of the
18:09cloth of people helping migrants here.
18:12And that's been a major effort.
18:15Even people who at first, based on some of their background, you think may not
18:21have been so publicly out there, you know, in support of being on the front
18:29lines to help migrants. You know, I think we've seen this effort.
18:35I mean, you've covered these massive meetings, both in the United States and abroad, you
18:40know, of all these people in the Catholic Church.
18:43And, you know, you've made it clear that yes, but behind all of this is
18:48actually Pope Leo XIV. And so before we go, talk to us about just the
18:52broader resistance efforts, and how strong they've been.
18:56And the real fact that the Trump regime is truly intimidated by this.
19:03And it does have this historical parallel to Hitler being intimidated by not being able
19:10to break the church and trying to figure out how to maneuver there.
19:15Like, you know, whether it's being done because of that playbook, or that's just an
19:19authoritarian thinking of dealing with the church, there are parallels there as well.
19:24So maybe, you know, combine those two concepts before we go.
19:27Well, I think the first thing I know is that I'm from Tennessee.
19:30In MAGA country, throughout this nation, the Catholic Church is leading the resistance to Donald
19:37Trump. You had nuns who marched in Georgia, you had a bishop in Arkansas, compare
19:43Trump's actions to the Holocaust, to Nazi Germany.
19:47You have here in Tennessee, you have the bishops standing up against deportation.
19:53So I think in MAGA country, you have the church being a bulwark, remarkably a
19:59bulwark against the Trump administration.
20:01And the progressives across the country are seeing the church as something to look up
20:06to. I think the final thing I will say is, I think that Pope Francis
20:10himself was leading on these issues, but he did have resistance among the hierarchy in
20:17the United States. And what they often would do is they would reduce Francis to
20:21being Argentinian. They would say, oh, the man from Buenos Aires, he doesn't understand life
20:26here in the United States.
20:28And so I think a lot of the bishops thought, the conservative bishops thought, we'll
20:32just wait for the next pope.
20:33And then by the grace of God, the next pope is a Chicagoan, an American,
20:40a progressive, a man who cares deeply about the poor, the migrants.
20:45He cares about victims of war, the oppressed.
20:49And you cannot simply say he doesn't understand us.
20:53He is one of us.
20:54Pope Leo XIV is one of us.
20:56So I've seen a conversion of sorts of the episcopy episcopacy of the bishops in
21:01the United States, whether that's because they realize that the man's in charge is one
21:05of their own, or is it's a conversion of heart.
21:08The end reality of it is, is the Catholic church in the United States is
21:13unifying as a bulwark against MAGA authoritarianism and Catholic, Christian, religious or not, we can
21:21all be thankful for that.
21:23Christopher Hale, those social media posts do you make to get, just so people know,
21:28I mean, 4 million views, 5 million views, 3 million regularly.
21:34And And it's when I'm trying to research areas regarding the church and its interactions,
21:41you know, it's where I go to get my knowledge.
21:44Letters from Leo is the name of Christopher Hale's Substack, the American Pope in U
21:48.S. politics. Thanks for joining us, Christopher.
21:50We'd love to have you back on.
21:52Thank you for having me.
21:53I appreciate it. And everybody hit subscribe here and let's get to 7 million subscribers.
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