The Manosphere Report

0:03the joe rogan experience train by day joe rogan podcast by night all day okay

0:12so when we scheduled this there's nothing happening it was so peaceful every time we're

0:17here something crazy is going on man yeah uh maybe we manifest it to be

0:24honest it did 2026 did start with a bang yeah yeah yeah well a lot

0:29of things you know it's just nothing seems stable everywhere everywhere in the world seems

0:37fucked right now like this is the like in all of my years this seems

0:42the most unstable globally like i never worried that the uk was going to be

0:48like complete chaos arresting 12 000 people for social media posts and abandoning trial by

0:56jury all that shit i never thought the ukraine russia war would go on this

1:02long never thought never thought they would just continue bombing gaza and then what's happening

1:08now they just sort of stop and now they're talking about putting a resort there

1:16what are you like you hear that and you go are you fucking serious right

1:21tim dylan has a i want to i won't give the bit away he has

1:25a fucking phenomenal bit about staying in that resort yeah and you boys have been

1:31busy as well joe yeah and then you know i was going to get to

1:33that the embarrassing part uh uh in the middle of ramadan you take out the

1:40leader of a muslim country and uh they're hangry already and you're fucking with that

1:46well no they're really yeah they can't drink water right and then you know i

1:54was listening to tim dylan's podcast today uh he's got a great podcast with uh

1:58ryan grim and one other gentleman but one of the things that they brought up

2:03was that some of these drone attacks it doesn't even seem like they're from iran

2:08some of these drone attacks on gulf states like that the one of them um

2:15i don't want to speak out of tune out of turn because i don't i'm

2:19not exactly sure which ones they're talking about they're talking about one of them on

2:23um either it's a oil refinery i think it is an oil refinery that it

2:30doesn't seem like it came from iran so where did it come from that's a

2:33good question one of their proxies that's a good question well the fear is a

2:38false flag that's the fear like if you really wanted to get really scared of

2:43what we're dragged into you're dragged into an ally that's not telling you the truth

2:48and is also doing some other stuff well i'm not even a saying that that's

2:54the case but a lot of people are assuming that that's what it is but

2:58that's what happens when you have an absence of information right and so the moment

3:02you have an absence of information there's a vacuum and nature abhors a vacuum you

3:06need to have that vacuum filled so that's where conspiracies naturally flourish because 100 because

3:11if people don't have information then they're going to basically theorize right and part of

3:17people theorizing is conspiracies are going to start flourishing well i think they were basing

3:22it on the where the drone came from like let's see if we can find

3:27some information on that jamie i will try it was jeremy scahill was the other

3:32that's right reporter on the video i just find it amazing now how many people

3:37have like a hard take on like what's going i'm like what we don't know

3:41a fucking thing about what's going like the coin is in the air right and

3:44we do not know how it's going but everyone's got to take everyone everyone knows

3:48yeah like we do not fucking i don't i don't think anyone knows like i

3:51understand if you if you work at the white house or if you work in

3:55russian propaganda or you work in chinese propaganda like or if you work in iranian

3:59like you've you've got to get your point of view across to try and persuade

4:02people right but if you're actually trying to work out what's genuinely happening i don't

4:06think anyone knows how this is a gamble of gigantic proportions right and nobody knows

4:12how it's going to end uh it's like it's just so unpredictable and i can

4:16tell you a great story that is like positive for the for the west let's

4:22say for america i can tell you a terrible story and they both sound very

4:25convincing and no one knows which one of them is true yeah that's a very

4:28good point uh this is the hot take culture right right everyone has a take

4:34in there they want that take to be that expert take so uh specific drone

4:38attack incidents that call potential false flags saudi arabia uh saudi uh saudi aramco rather

4:45um oil facility attack so iranian officials deny striking the saudi aramco processing facility and

4:54instead suggest israel may have carried out that attack as a false flag to inflame

4:58gulf opinion and pull saudi arabia more directly into the war with iran so ryan

5:04grim explicitly says he thinks iran's claims that israel hit the iran co -facility need

5:09to be taken seriously and that it's very possible israel did it and this was

5:15the other one the drone strike on the british base in cyprus that was from

5:18lebanon right yeah is that what they're saying yeah may have come from the direction

5:22of lebanon he places this in the same context of ron claiming israel carried out

5:26certain attacks in neighboring states as false flags to blame in iran and drag those

5:32countries into the war those countries this doesn't make any logical sense to me because

5:36those countries already in the war i mean saudi arabia and uae have been attacked

5:40by iran because they were on the phone to trump basically asking him to do

5:46this here's a this is another weird one the tucker carlson one you saw that

5:51right no so tucker carlson said that oh yeah yeah that they'd been arrested the

5:57members of masad have been arrested in qatar and saudi arabia so uh but both

6:02qatar and saudi arabia have said it's not true yeah they've officially denied such arrests

6:06their own saudi sources also denied it though they released today anth рас dell Note

6:10details don't prove it didn't happen, and that states would almost certainly hide such arrests

6:15if real, huh? The thing, Joe, is that these countries, so Saudi Arabia and UAE,

6:21Qatar less so, they want this to happen because they also hate Iran or the

6:26Iranian regime. Right. So there is no need for Israel, even if people are tempted

6:32to believe, there's no need for Israel to do this because these countries are already

6:36in it. Right. And that's one of the reasons that Iran has attacked things in

6:42Saudi Arabia and in the UAE is they know that, right?

6:46The Gulf countries are on board with this.

6:49Right. So what would be – let's assume that the false flag, that it's in

6:56play. Why? Why would Israel – how would they benefit from doing that?

7:00That's what I'm saying. There is no rationale that I can think of.

7:03The people that think the false flag is real, like why do they think that?

7:06What do they think that Israel would benefit from?

7:08Is there a scenario where you can imagine it would inflame things and further support

7:14other countries contributing to the – I mean there's a lot of money that's being

7:19spent on this war, right?

7:20Right. It's like this is an insane amount of money just for munitions, just for

7:24missiles. Yeah, yeah. And then rebuilding Iran if we get to that, right?

7:27Maybe another resort. Yeah. So – but I just don't see the rationale because the

7:32Gulf countries are already targets for Iran.

7:35Right. There's nothing to inflame.

7:37Like the situation is already pretty fucking inflamed, right?

7:39And it's partly inflamed because, as I say, actually the Gulf states and Israel are

7:44pretty aligned on this particular thing.

7:47They're all at threat from the Iranian regime.

7:52So we had Eamon Dean and Richard Minnett on our show the other day.

7:57One of them is an Al -Qaeda MI6 double agent.

8:00Another one is a really reputable investigative journalist, Richard.

8:05Al -Qaeda MI6 double agent.

8:08Yeah. What balls. And he has a great podcast now as well called Conflicted.

8:14What a great name for a podcast for a guy who's a double agent.

8:18Yeah, yeah. What balls that guy must have.

8:20Yeah, yeah, yeah. Really cool guy.

8:22But anyway, I mean he was explaining that Saudi Arabia has a population that is

8:27way bigger than what they can sustain in terms of the water.

8:30But they live in the fucking desert.

8:32So they have these desalination plants which are extremely vulnerable.

8:36And Saudi Arabia, UAE, these other countries, they felt at huge risk from Iranian attacks

8:41for a long time. So none of them like the Iranian regime that's spreading terrorism

8:47through its proxies. They just – so in actual fact, dragging them into the war

8:51kind of like there's no sense for that.

8:53I think there's a lot of people just – they go to reaction now whenever

8:57anything happens is that it was Israel's fault.

8:59You know, like Venezuela, fuck all to do with Israel.

9:02But when it happened, everyone's like, oh, it's Israel.

9:04I think some people just go to that now as the automatic response, which comes

9:08back to what I was saying earlier about the hot take culture.

9:11Something happened three minutes ago and now everyone's got a fucking take on it.

9:15You don't know anything. None of us know anything.

9:18None of us know how this is going to go because this right now is

9:22a highly unpredictable situation. I don't think the White House knows how this is going

9:26to go. This episode is brought to you by 8 Sleep.

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10:37No, it's terrifying. It's terrifying and it's exactly the opposite of what we were told

10:42leading into this administration. That it's going to be America first.

10:46Right. And no more unnecessary foreign wars.

10:50There's the other thing that, do you remember Desert Storm?

10:53Yeah. Yeah. Desert Storm, quick and easy, baby.

10:56Woo, we went in, kicked some ass, took some names.

10:58That's a wrap. Pulled out.

11:00There was only one base that got hit, so there was the amount of deaths

11:03by American citizens was fairly minimal.

11:06I think that's what got people so confident into entering Iran after 9 -11, or

11:12excuse me, Iraq after 9 -11.

11:13To go back, like we already fucked them up once.

11:16We're going to go back and this is going to be easy.

11:18Well, it wasn't easy the second time.

11:19It was drawn out. And it didn't make any sense, but people wanted some form

11:24of revenge, something for 9 -11.

11:26And so, somehow or another, they justified a war with a country that had zero

11:31to do with it. Like, it didn't even make sense.

11:34That one took for... And then we also invaded Afghanistan at the same time.

11:38What did we do? What the fuck?

11:39So, in the fog of this idea of American exceptionalism, we're just going to go

11:44in and fix it. We did it before.

11:46There's no one even close to us.

11:47Well, look how that turned out.

11:49Yeah, well, this is completely true.

11:51And there's this idea that it's so easy to take one regime, remove it, and

11:55then just put another one in its place, like it's a Lego block.

11:58And then all of a sudden, you're going to magically fix a country.

12:02It's a fantasy. Like, if you take Iran, the IRGC, which is the Islamic Revolutionary

12:07Guard, numbers around 200 ,000 trained soldiers.

12:12And not only are they trained soldiers, they're fanatical.

12:15They're fanatics. And then you have the secret police, and then you have the regular

12:19police, and then you have the people employed in the government, and then their families,

12:23and so on and so forth.

12:24and then there's supporters within the country and then you've got the various factions within

12:29Iran like the Kurds who want independence so the moment the the leadership is weakened

12:35they're going to use it as an opportunity to launch their own revolution to try

12:39and break away from the rest of Iran so you have all of these particular

12:44parts these factions and then you think if you take out the top the guy

12:50at the top who's holding it all together by force I'm not saying I agree

12:53with him or what he does you have the very real risk that the entire

12:58country is going to disintegrate as what happened in Iran in Iraq sorry and also

13:03Libya yeah yeah the the idea that you could just take the guy out and

13:08that's a wrap but the I mean it doesn't seem like it's well thought out

13:14well I mean I guess they would say Venezuela right like regime adjustment it's a

13:20completely different yeah of course of course this is a religious fanatical right it's a

13:25totally different kind of country also it's a country that's been under threat for decades

13:29right so they've been preparing for this kind of thing yeah yeah and also with

13:33Venezuela it wasn't a regime change practically everybody who was in the old regime is

13:38still there it's a regime adjustment exactly exactly so Delcy Rodriguez was one of the

13:44senior leaders in Maduro's regime they just took out Maduro and his wife they put

13:49Delcy Rodriguez there but the whole structure the whole leadership the whole party is still

13:55in place so they've just what they've done is they put Delcy at the top

14:00and they've said to her look if you fuck about you're going to get what

14:04your boss got so you're going to follow what we say you're going to do

14:07what we say you are going to open up the oil refineries we're going to

14:11build it we're going to you're going to start pumping oil out you're going to

14:14stop messing about with Hezbollah which they had training camps in the island of Margarita

14:18which is a little Caribbean island two and a half hours away from Miami training

14:23camps you can't have that you're not going to be fraternizing with the Cubans and

14:28you're going to play ball and essentially Venezuela is now a colony of the United

14:31States that's what it's now become that's wild well there's also the Kurt Metzger angle

14:38which is hilarious Kurt Metzger cornered me one night at the mothership and he explained

14:44to me that this is all about the 2020 election and that Maduro somehow or

14:50another had something to do with rigging the 2020 election and he's going to say

14:55it as a part of his testimony he's like just wait just wait mark my

15:01words he's he's convinced of this he goes down the rabbit hole to the lava

15:08like he passes and he's like this rabbit hole's been covered up it goes deeper

15:14he keeps going till he's at the fucking center of the earth he's a funny

15:19guy though oh he's hilarious he's hilarious he's mentally ill he's hilarious he's one of

15:23the funniest people I know like ever fantastic joke writer too I mean he's just

15:27great all around but Jesus Christ like some of his nutty theories they go so

15:33far oh absolutely I've been in bars with Kurt where he starts talking to me

15:38and I'm like Kurt I don't even know what we're talking about anymore well he

15:42changes he changes conspiracies mid -sentence he starts bringing up some shit from the 70s

15:48the church committee and this and that and MKUltra and don't you know about monarch

15:53like what slow down like not everybody knows what you're talking about but I think

16:00this is and I love Kurt but this is kind of where you feel that

16:05the truth isn't enough so you there needs to be something else well there needs

16:10to be something that goes deeper than that and sometimes there is don't get me

16:13wrong sometimes it does go deeper but sometimes like you're making connections where there are

16:19no connections like it's pretty simple with Venezuela what was going on they were fucking

16:24about and they were doing it for a long time and they were doing it

16:27in America's backyard and they had warning after warning and Maduro the way I'd push

16:32back against Kurt is I'm really sorry Kurt but Maduro ain't that bright well I

16:36don't think he has to be that bright to finance and make sure and arrange

16:40things because they did there was like some something connected to the voting machines that

16:46were there they made those claims who was that one Sidney Powell was it yeah

16:50here we go she's another fun one um post 2020 from Trump allies like Sidney

16:55Powell and Rudy Giuliani claiming Hugo Chavez Maduro's predecessor developed rigged software to export to

17:02US firms these were promoted by figures like Mike Lindell he makes a great pillow

17:06should listen to him and amplified on social media but courts and fact checks rejected

17:12them including Fox News right seven hundred eight seven hundred and eighty seven million uh

17:16Dominion settlement yeah I was gonna say I'm pretty sure that those claims were debunked

17:21yeah not to Kurt he's like you guys don't know where the hard drives are

17:27they're in the center of the earth we got to get there um yeah that

17:31doesn't make much sense to me but uh neither does this idea that you're gonna

17:36take over a country's oil supply you know like that you know we'll just take

17:40it that the problem is from the outside like the rest of the world you

17:46you look at this unnecessary aggression by the united states government and then you tack

17:50on whatever propaganda they have already been spitting out about america for the last 20

17:55or 30 years and then this war with Iran gets really ugly because that's how

17:59you start a world war three you start a world war three by doing something

18:04that and other than people that wanted this forever who else thinks that's a good

18:11idea who else thinks it's a good idea to just attack a country that isn't

18:14doing anything they haven't done anything like if you've proof that they have developed the

18:20depleted uranium and they've got it up to a point where it's they've got it

18:24to what it what what percentage does it have to be like they're at 60

18:28right but that's way more than you need way more than you need right so

18:32it shows that they're at least ramping up their production where it's possible to get

18:36it to whatever it needs to make that's way more more than you need For

18:39civilian use. Right, right. But that's still, it's not clear that that justifies an invasion

18:45when North Korea has nuclear weapons.

18:47Right. Yeah. Right. It's like, do we just want, are we just trying to prevent

18:51them from ever getting to a point where they're like North Korea?

18:53Who the fuck is worried about North Korea?

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19:35I think the difference, as you correctly said earlier, is these people are very different

19:39to the North Koreans, right?

19:40North Korea wants to be left the fuck alone.

19:43Iran does not want to be left alone.

19:44Iran wants to dominate the region.

19:46That's why they fund Hamas.

19:48It's when they fund Hezbollah.

19:49It's why they fund the Houthis.

19:50It's why they are doing shit.

19:52That's why the Gulf countries and Israel are very worried about them, right?

19:56So that's the difference, I think.

19:58And then there's the, you know, some of the people we've had on the show

20:01who are Iranian have talked about the, what is it called?

20:0612 Shia Islam? Is that the, I can't remember the details, but basically they have

20:10a kind of messianic vision of what's going to happen.

20:13And they believe that when the world ends, that's when the prophecy will be fulfilled.

20:19You don't want those guys with nuclear weapons, right?

20:22That's a good point. Yeah.

20:23So from that perspective, it's different to North Korea.

20:27And so that's, I think that's part of the thinking.

20:30But your point is interesting to me about the fact that this doesn't reflect what

20:35people, you know, as we're not Americans, but it doesn't seem to have been part

20:40of the policy platform of the Trump election at the last election, right?

20:45No, not at all. But I do think there is some kind of strategy behind

20:48all of this. And I'm very curious what that is, because I guess if you

20:53think about it logically, you would say, well, is it an attempt to effectively push

20:57back against China and Russia, infiltrating all these countries, right?

21:01China and Russia were very close with Maduro in Venezuela.

21:06Very, very, like Francis is saying, Hezbollah training camps, Island Margarita.

21:10Where was the oil going?

21:11Right. Same with Iran. I mean, Iran sells its oil to China.

21:16And sends suicide drones to Russia to use in Ukraine.

21:19So maybe it's that. Maybe the strategy is you're trying to push back against Chinese

21:25and Russian influence in all these countries, because you can't attack them directly, because you

21:29can't attack them directly, right?

21:31Yeah. But this is all just guessing on my part.

21:34And that's what I'm really curious.

21:35We're going to do some interviews on this trip to kind of like, I want

21:38to get someone on the show who can go, this is the strategy.

21:41Right. This is what we're doing.

21:43Because I think, as we were saying earlier, it's not very clear to most people

21:47what the rationale behind all of this is.

21:50But I also don't think this sort of like mad dog Trump idea is true

21:55either. I think he has a strategy.

21:56I'd just love to know what it is.

21:58And it's very interesting because there's been talk about regime change in Cuba.

22:03And one of the things, so.

22:06I think that's next, genuinely.

22:07Oh, my God. I think that's next.

22:09So, when Chavez came to power in 99, what he did, and not enough people

22:14talk about this, is he turned what was a very corrupt, admittedly, liberal Western -style

22:20democracy into a communist dictatorship.

22:23And how do you do that?

22:25You can't just literally do that overnight.

22:27So, what he did is he allied with the Cubans and Fidel, in particular, Fidel

22:32Castro. Venezuela provided Cuba with cheap oil, which helped to keep the Cuban economy afloat,

22:39because Cuba's been going broke since however many years, 40 -odd years.

22:43And what Castro did was he gave him the boots on the ground in Venezuela,

22:48but also the technical expertise and know -how in order to change a Western liberal

22:54democracy into a communist state with permanent surveillance, secret police, subjugate the population so there

23:00was no chance of them ever being able to revolt.

23:02And turn everything, like I said, into a communist state.

23:07So, by what they did in Venezuela, Venezuela can no longer support Cuba.

23:13So, Cuba is literally now withering on the vine as a result of them knocking

23:18out the Venezuelans. So, it's going to come to a point where you say Cuba

23:23are effectively going to go bankrupt, which could precipitate an uprising, a revolution by people

23:29when people can no longer eat.

23:31And that would mean that that country is then weakened.

23:35Finally, they can get rid of the communist regime there and they can have a

23:40different type of government. One, which would be far more sympathetic, shall we say, to

23:44working with America and being an American island.

23:46Possibly. That makes sense to me in a way.

23:48What I don't understand about the Iran thing is like, what is the end goal

23:52here? Well, you've got the Reza Pahlavi, the Shah's son.

23:56I mean, he left Iran a long time ago as a kid, right?

24:00You know, the idea that he's going to go back in there and be welcomed

24:02by the masses, maybe that's true.

24:06It's like Daenerys returning to the Iron Throne.

24:09Yeah, but Daenerys had three fucking dragons, right?

24:14But you know what I'm saying?

24:15Like she left when she was a baby.

24:16Yeah, that's right. That's right.

24:17And it's not like the people are desperately, I don't know, maybe the people are

24:21desperate for the return of the Shah's son.

24:22Well, it seems like some people are desperate for a change there.

24:25The people that were protesters.

24:26A hundred percent. The people that risked their lives.

24:28A hundred percent. A hundred percent.

24:29But like every country, like if you only listen to the liberals in this country,

24:33you would think that, you know, that no one's illegal on stolen land.

24:37Right. If you only listen to the Republicans in this country, you would think we

24:41got to find every illegal and get them out of our country and make America

24:45great again. Like it doesn't make sense if we just go only by the protesters.

24:50Like we don't really have accurate polling because they don't have.

24:53any free speech over there right no and they've killed like famous athletes over there

24:59for protesting yeah I mean they killed the Olympic gold medalist in wrestling the UFC

25:03tried to step in and try to do something to stop it they executed him

25:07for just I apparently I don't even think he was actually protesting I think it

25:11was just at a protest he wasn't even saying anything and this is the thing

25:16you always have to bear in mind Joe I might be wrong about that no

25:18I think you are right am I right about that the fun final details I'm

25:22not sure but the fact that he was executed yes he worked very hard to

25:26try and say that I think there's there was some discrepancy as to whether or

25:30not he was actually participating in the the protest that also could have been the

25:35defense you know I don't know but I mean the fact that they execute people

25:39who protest there's no way you can support that kind of that's a scary -ass

25:43fucking government and run by religious fanatics that's a scary -ass government but the question

25:48is like how scary ass does it have to get we're invading makes sense because

25:53if if this keeps going like if we we have to go boots on the

25:57ground that's where things get nuts you can't go boots on the ground man you

26:01can't you can't right I don't but I don't think there's any you should be

26:05president of the United States there's a lot of people are gonna disagree with that

26:10no I I I don't think that's viable just like it might be robot boots

26:18on the ground yeah you know if Elon gets that factory up in time but

26:21what I want to know is like what is it the what is what is

26:25that you're working towards right right like so from what what I understand talking to

26:29some of the people like Israel would quite like a Reza Pahlavi monarchy because the

26:34other Middle Eastern countries that they have peace with you know Bahrain Morocco uh increasingly

26:43the Gulf states they're all monarchies right right right so they're down with that but

26:47from what I understand the White House is really not that interested in Pahlavi and

26:53so what what do they want well one of the things that Richard Minniter broke

26:56on our show because it hadn't been reported anywhere else was that the White House

27:00has given the Israelis a no kill list which is basically a list of members

27:05of the current regime that they don't want to be killed because they have hope

27:09that these people could then be the Rodriguez equivalent in Iran right and I I

27:16don't know that the fanatics within the Iranian regime who are there now how many

27:23of them are like this mod like Darth Vader but like like do you know

27:26what I mean yeah you're kind of looking for Darth Vader zero yeah no no

27:30no no no Islam zero Islamism like I don't know that that exists right right

27:35sugar -free sugar -free Islamism free yeah so so that's the bit and that doesn't

27:42mean that there isn't like a plan right but I don't know what the fuck

27:45that plan is right now and I find it hard to see one so regime

27:49evil regime gone wonderful but what but the question is always like what comes after

27:53that right that's always the question and that's where I think your point is very

27:57true which is in the past there have been times where this sort of approach

28:00has gone completely off the rails yeah that's a fact and it's also as well

28:04what has been coming out of the Trump camp is contradictory to put it mildly

28:09you have Hegseff saying one thing you have Trump saying another they contradict each other

28:13at certain points is that a tactic in order to befuddle the opponent maybe who

28:17knows or is it the fact that they don't actually have a grand vision what

28:21was there some sort of a concession today on Russian oil yeah well I think

28:26the first of all Trump let uh India buy Iranian oil and I think now

28:31they are lifting the sanctions on Russia selling its oil because the oil prices spiked

28:35as much as they did right yeah here it goes us eases limits on Russian

28:39energy as oil prices soar right doom doom doom doom doom doom doom doom doom

28:45yeah well you've got the pink floyd too so it's appropriate but you can see

28:54it like the oil prices spiked for for water one day two days yeah and

29:00everyone went went full panic yeah straight away but the thing is if that does

29:05if that carries on for two months the impact of that on domestic politics I

29:09mean I'm not an expert in American politics but even I can say that's going

29:12to be pretty fucking important oh it's bad right yeah it's going to be bad

29:17I mean if oil prices spike we're fucked yeah you know and the Republicans are

29:22really fucked yeah and you've got the midterms you got the midterms coming up in

29:25November and it's also the momentum will be in their way and look there's you

29:31know second third fourth order consequences so at the moment in the UK the vast

29:36majority of people find it and are finding it more and more difficult just to

29:40get through to the end of the month because of the cost of living inflation

29:44it's becoming worse and worse I was talking to a butcher in my area which

29:49is this very nice part of North London you know the type of place I'm

29:53talking about everyone loves BLM no one has a black friend that kind of place

29:57right okay that's the kind of area it is and he was telling me that

30:02even in this very wealthy area people are starting to ration meat now so before

30:06they'd have meat five days a week now they're going down to three or two

30:09and this isn't a wealthy area so now imagine if there's energy spikes and then

30:15food becomes more and more expensive there is already a very worrying hard left political

30:22movement growing in the UK where they're talking about you know the capitalism doesn't work

30:27we need socialism and there's a there's this new politician come to the fore guy

30:32called Zach Polanski who talks about what we need in this country and the UK

30:37is socialism now imagine if the cost of living crisis gets worse and the vast

30:42majority of people who work hard in a regular job can't make ends meet through

30:48literal no fault of their own can you blame them for going hang on capitalism

30:52doesn't work because in this instance at that moment it doesn't work for them and

30:57then you could that could spark something completely disastrous for our country yeah but I

31:03think you know that's the negative story I think it's incredibly persuasive and I lean

31:07more in the direction that this could go badly.

31:11But I also think there is the possibility of this goes well, too.

31:14I think that is possible.

31:16How do you envision that scenario?

31:19Well, so if they're able to keep the Strait of Hormuz open and you don't

31:23have this energy problems that we've got now, you know, Venezuela, Cuba, he's basically resetting

31:31the region and he's basically saying to all the people that want to align themselves

31:35with China and Russia, like, we're not fucking about here.

31:38Don't cross these lines. That is an opportunity to address the slide that the Western

31:45world has had vis -a -vis China and Russia for a very long time.

31:48That could be a very positive thing.

31:50The thing is what happens in Iran, like that is the thing that I don't

31:54really see how that goes well.

31:56Might do. Like I said, there's probably a plan that we don't know.

31:59And if that works out, that could be very good.

32:03Okay, what would you imagine that plan would be?

32:06If you, like, let's imagine, best case scenario, you're in the White House.

32:13They're all very rational. No one's being influenced by foreign governments.

32:17No one's incompetent. Everybody knows what they're doing.

32:19Well, yeah. I mean, we're in the realms of fantasy.

32:22That's why I like to go.

32:25But, I mean, take the Soviet Union, which is obviously something that I know, right,

32:28being born in the Soviet Union and Russia.

32:30Towards the end of the Soviet Union, you still had some fanatical communists.

32:35And, in fact, throughout the Soviet Union, you always had within the government a mixture

32:39of different people, right? You had the fanatical communists who believed that communism is the

32:44only thing that was ever going to work, et cetera.

32:45But you also had people who were reformers.

32:49They saw the problems. They saw the fanatical communists were ruining things and things were

32:54getting worse, right? They saw that you had to kill more and more of Iran

32:58people to keep shit locked down, right?

33:01So the argument could be within the Iranian revolutionary guard or the regime more broadly,

33:07there are people who are, like, you know, I'm not necessarily that keen on the

33:13guy who runs Syria now, Al -Jilani, right?

33:14He is a jihadi, but he's kind of like a moderate one, you know?

33:18You know, how long that...

33:20I don't know how long it's going to last.

33:21But my point is, within every regime, there is some range of opinion.

33:25There is some range of fanaticism.

33:27There is some range of people who, partly for generational reasons, you know, the younger

33:31people have seen, you know, a 40 -year history and they now go, okay, this

33:36isn't working anymore. We need to try something else.

33:38That is possible. So if the CIA and the White House have someone like that,

33:44and they can do a regime adjustment, and, like, I think the idea that you're

33:49going to have, you know, multi -parliamentary democracy with, you know, free and fair elections

33:57and women, you know, like Venice Beach, you know, rollerblading on bikinis on, I don't

34:02know that that's going to happen, right?

34:04But what you might have is an authoritarian regime of some kind, like many other

34:11countries in the Middle East, which realizes that actually economic growth is more important than

34:16shouting Allah Akbar every three minutes and blowing shit up, right?

34:19That focuses on making life better for their citizens.

34:23That, you know, practices traditional Muslim values, which many countries do, and says, you know,

34:28women ought to be modest, but doesn't force them to wear the burqa or the

34:33headscarf or whatever, and is less interested in destabilizing the region and attacking others and

34:42trying to be this great power, and is more interested in just prosperity for its

34:46own people, survival for themselves as a regime, and is willing to play ball with

34:52the United States. I mean, that's...

34:53Well said. Yeah, well said.

34:54That's best case scenario. That's best case scenario.

34:56Now, if you get there, I think that would be a huge win for President

35:00Trump, and it'd be a huge win for the world, and he will walk away

35:04from that with a huge win, and I think, you know, you're a better expert

35:07on the American people, but I think American people like winning, right?

35:11So if you have all this happen, he can then say, well, look, we did

35:15this, we did this, we did this.

35:17Russia and China have been pushed back.

35:18We've got to, you know, the situation...

35:20Iran is not going to get a nuke, which is important.

35:22I think we can all agree on that, right?

35:23Yeah. There is the possibility that he comes out of this very well.

35:29I think that, based on what I see, but I don't know, coming back to

35:33what we said, I think we share this kind of perspective, really, Francis and I.

35:37That seems somewhat less likely, this point is harder to see.

35:40But I think you can tell a persuasive story both ways.

35:43I really do. This episode is brought to you by SimpliSafe.

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36:57I'm R .J. Decker, a private investigator uncovering the sunshine state's darkest secrets.

37:03Tuesdays, it's the premiere of ABC's hottest new crime show.

37:07R .J. freaking Decker has that live and breathe.

37:10He's a private eye. It's not a standard murder.

37:13It's someone bigger. And a public mess.

37:15Trying to get sent back to prison today?

37:17You go to prison one time, and suddenly it's all the jokes.

37:20R .J. Decker, serial killer.

37:27That makes sense and what we're saying I think is very valid that we need

37:31to abandon any idea of them having some sort of a democracy over there.

37:34It's not going to happen.

37:36No. And, you know, you do look at the relationships that we have with other

37:42Gulf state nations. Seems fine, right?

37:46It's not threatening to us.

37:47We would like everyone to be free and have the same sort of liberal democracy

37:52that we have in America.

37:53But, OK, you like that all want that all day long.

37:58You can't do anything to change the way other people govern themselves, especially when you've

38:02gotten to the point where like take any of the Middle Eastern countries, for example.

38:09These some of these people are worth trillions of dollars.

38:12These royal families have been running it forever.

38:14They have insane amounts of oil money.

38:16Good luck. Good luck getting them out of there.

38:19Good luck saying we should just vote, you know, and have a president and you

38:23don't have any power anymore.

38:25Like how how are you going to pull that off, especially if things are going

38:28well for the people that live there?

38:30Like like like I have a friend who moved to Dubai and he's an American

38:35and he moved back to America recently.

38:37But he was over there and he said, dude, you could leave a Rolex on

38:41the street and people would pick it up and bring it to the police.

38:44Like it's so safe. He's like, there's no crime.

38:47And he's black. And he's like, I worry when I go out in America, I'm

38:51going to get shot. I'm worried I'm going to go to a club and someone's

38:54going to start beefing and shooting up the place and I'm going to get hit.

38:57He goes, I don't think about that at all over here.

38:59There's none of that. He goes, it's safer.

39:02Is it fucked up that, you know, it's run by a king?

39:06I guess. Is there is it that much different than a president?

39:11I mean, in a way like it's a leader, right?

39:15You've got more checks and balances over here.

39:17You've got Congress. You get the Senate.

39:19You got all this shit going on with the Supreme Court.

39:21You have all these different human beings that also have a say and can block

39:24things. But at the end of the day, we're still under this bizarre alpha male

39:30chimpanzee structure that has existed from the time that we were 150 people in a

39:37fucking tribe, right? So it's still one guy running things.

39:42It's just running things their way.

39:44And if you were a citizen in Dubai, pretty fucking good, right?

39:49Well, your point about the UAE is really interesting because not only is on the

39:52practical level of safety and other things, but also they don't have the Islamism problem

39:58that we have in Britain.

40:00And increasingly, you guys are starting to see here because they recognize that it's a

40:05problem and they deal with it.

40:06So I don't know if you saw this news story.

40:09The UAE no longer gives sponsorships to their students to go to the UK because

40:14they're worried their kids are going to get radicalized by Islamists in Britain, which is

40:20fucking wild. Yeah, that is fucking wild.

40:23Yeah. And you, I mean, you, you, you were messaging me about this story with

40:26the Mamdani situation right yesterday.

40:29Yes. You now have this problem in America.

40:31Yeah. Yes. You have the Islamism problem here where people who are supporters of ISIS

40:36are thrown. But I mean, your media is pretending it's not happening, but it's fucking

40:39happening. Well, it happened in Austin.

40:41Right. Yeah. I mean, the guy who shot up that bar.

40:44Because this is a problem, Joe.

40:46I'm going to send that article to Jamie.

40:47Jamie, you could probably find it on CNN because it's kind of hilarious.

40:51Incredible. This was actually incredible.

40:53The New York Times title change thing.

40:55Did the New York Times change their title?

40:57Yeah. They did? I wonder why.

41:02Austeer scholars. I'm going to send you the CNN one first.

41:05The CNN one is really wild.

41:08It was called, they had like fuses of things with smoke or something.

41:13Yeah, they changed it to bombs or something.

41:14Yeah, fucking duh. I'm sending you this one because the CNN one is, believe it

41:20or not, more preposterous. The CNN one is so kooky.

41:23You see their headline. You're like, what kind of story are you painting here?

41:29Like, this is such a crazy way to frame a guy showed up with bombs

41:36and was hurling them at people.

41:38Well, they made it sound like the exact opposite of what actually happened.

41:41Well, it sounded like it was just a regular day.

41:44It was just a regular day for this fella.

41:46And then things just went a little sideways somewhere along the line.

41:49Listen, we've all got hobbies, man.

41:51You know what I mean?

41:51You like working out. He has nail bombs.

41:53Come on. Did you get it, Jamie?

41:55It's not coming through? No, look.

41:59It's not loading there. Oh, interesting.

42:01But let me see if they took it down.

42:05I'd guess they would have.

42:06You probably have an old link.

42:08Okay, that's the New York Times one I sent you.

42:10Oh, no, that's the one I just clicked on.

42:12Let me check the original one.

42:13Nothing to see here. Interesting.

42:16They probably deleted it. Okay, here.

42:18I found it. Two Pennsylvania teenagers crossing New York City Saturday morning for what could

42:23have been a normal day, enjoying the city during abnormally warm weather.

42:28But in less than an hour, their lives have drastically changed as the pair would

42:32be arrested for throwing homemade bombs.

42:36That is CNN's tweet. I'm going to send you a screenshot because I do believe

42:41they have taken it down.

42:42It's brilliant. Yep, nothing to see here yet.

42:45Yeah, they took it down.

42:46That's not a headline, though.

42:47Let's take a second. No, no, no, no.

42:49I'm going to send you the actual tweet because they did take it down because

42:54it's so fucking ridiculous. But the internet never forgets.

42:59I'm sending it to you here.

43:01Thank God I saved it and took a screenshot because I'm like, this is such

43:05a crazy way to frame two guys wanting to do a terror attack.

43:11Yeah. But it's not an accident, Joe.

43:13It's not crazy. No. You know it's not crazy.

43:15Look how it's framed here.

43:16This is the original tweet.

43:18Two Pennsylvania teenagers. Just regular fellas from PA.

43:22From Philly. Two Philly boys.

43:24Had a couple of cheese steaks and then got on the train.

43:28Crossing New York City Saturday morning for what could have been a normal day.

43:31Enjoying the city during abnormally warm weather.

43:33Why the fuck would you even say that?

43:35Could have been a normal day.

43:36They weren't going there to commit terrorism.

43:38Do you know what it reads like?

43:39It reads like when I used to teach 13 -year -olds creative writing.

43:43That's how they'd all start off.

43:45You know, it was like a normal day.

43:47I mean, I'd like to know who wrote that.

43:50Who's the person who wrote that?

43:51And I want to know, were you directed to write it that way?

43:54Who approved it? Yeah. Who edited it?

43:56Are you trying to downplay the possibility of, first of all, now in New York,

44:02because you have a guy who's an avowed, whatever he is, democratic socialist, some say

44:08communist, but also Muslim. And then you have these Islamists who are doing a terrorist

44:14attack. So are you trying to soften that?

44:17Yeah, but they are. It seems like you're trying to soften it.

44:18So what happened, just so people know, is there was a protest outside Mamdani's mansion.

44:23Right. Right. And then these two people turned up and threw bombs at the protesters.

44:28Right. And the way it was reported, if you just read that and no other

44:32stuff, you would have come away with the conclusion that it was the protesters who

44:37were the targets of the bombs.

44:39They were the ones that threw the bombs.

44:41No one officially said that that's what happened.

44:43But the way they did the story and the headline, you would have got that

44:48impression. And you're just going, well, you were just on a team.

44:52You see this as a team game.

44:53Right. And you want to present your team in the correct light.

44:57Oh, the new post. A post regarding two individuals arrested for throwing handmade bombs outside

45:02of New York City Mayor Zohan Mamdani's home failed to reflect the gravity of the

45:07incident, thereby breaching the editorial standards we require for all our reporting.

45:13It has therefore been deleted.

45:15But see how skillful this is, Joe.

45:16This is gaslighting again. They're saying their mistake was to...

45:21Look at the first post.

45:23Look at this guy's donut operator.

45:25Nah, you retards got called out for trying to downplay actual terrorism.

45:28And now you're backpedaling. Yep.

45:30Who's that second guy? He's really smart.

45:32Didn't fail to reflect the gravity of the situation.

45:35This guy named Constantine, I think he's on that trigonometry show.

45:39Reflected the gravity of the situation.

45:40It failed to accurately communicate who was responsible, who the intended victims were, and where

45:44the blame for the attempted terrorist attack lay.

45:48In other words, you didn't accidentally downplay the seriousness of it.

45:52You deliberately misrepresented what happened to conceal the truth from the public.

45:56Well, that's how AI would say it.

46:00I still write my own shit, Joe.

46:02I know you do, but I like the donut operator guy.

46:05Yeah, I know. He's more your cup of tea.

46:09That's how I like to talk.

46:10That is what happened, though, right?

46:11That is what happened. But that's what's really scary about this world we're living in

46:16right now. Because we're so ideologically captured, both right and left.

46:21Everyone in this country looks at this administration as an existential threat to democracy itself

46:26and our way of life and fill in the blank, whatever marginalized groups are all

46:32going to be round up and put in internment camps.

46:34This is the narrative that the most radical of the left have about the sky

46:40is falling because Trump's in office.

46:41But it's also, as well, what people on the left don't want to acknowledge is

46:44the dangers of Islamism. Right.

46:46When they see people do these kind of horrific terror attacks, when they see, for

46:52instance, what happened in the London Bridge terror attacks in 2019 or what happened in

46:56Manchester in the Ariana Grande concert where Islamic terrorists bombed a Ariana Grande concert and

47:04the majority of the audience were little girls, were young girls.

47:08And they say, oh, this happened because, you know, they were marginalized and they felt

47:13angry. And this is what people do when you push them to one side and

47:17they don't have a means in order to how to express themselves.

47:19You're going, no, what this is, is an ideology.

47:23It's an ideology which believes that our civilization, our way of life is evil.

47:29But also they want to establish their form of radical Islam across the globe.

47:34They want to create a global Islamic caliphate and they will do whatever it takes

47:38in order to achieve that goal.

47:39But people in the West, they can't understand that because it's so alien for how

47:44we see how we see things.

47:46We believe human life is precious.

47:48We believe the most important thing is human life.

47:50They don't. They believe the cause is more important than your life.

47:54And we can't understand that because we're raised in a world that is fundamentally Christian,

47:59even though we might not be.

48:01We still have Christian values.

48:02We had a guest on the show, a wonderful historian called Tom Holland, and he

48:06explained this to us, that even if you're not Christian, even if you think you

48:10were raised by atheist parents, you were still raised with Christian values.

48:16That's the soup in which we live.

48:18That's the water in which we swim.

48:20So this way of life that these people have, this ideology is so alien to

48:25us that we can't understand it.

48:27But also we don't want to understand it because if you start to actually investigate

48:32what these people believe, what their ideology is, you realize that we are not all

48:37the same. And these people believe something very, very different.

48:41And then we're going to have a very uncomfortable conversation of how do you tackle

48:46this? Because can you have Western liberal democratic values and Islamism and people who are

48:52Islamists in the same society?

48:54And the answer is you can't.

48:55And I think it's really important, your point, the difference between Islamists and Muslims.

48:59Yes. The Muslims are these Gulf state people.

49:02Muslims are these people in Dubai and Saudi Arabia.

49:05Islamists are the ones that want the caliphate.

49:07Yeah. Right. But then you have the crazy Christians and that thing that I sent

49:11you, the Yahoo thing that we talked about yesterday with Schellenberger, the Yahoo thing is

49:15nuts. So these military leaders – so this comes from one of the non -commissioned

49:22officers who went to a briefing.

49:23He goes to a briefing and they inform him that you shouldn't be scared because

49:28this is all – because President Trump is anointed by Jesus and this is to

49:33bring about Armageddon so that Jesus returns to earth.

49:36This isn't a fucking military briefing.

49:39One such note included an anecdote from a non -commissioned officer who reported that their

49:44commander had urged us to tell our troops this war was all a part of

49:48God's divine plan. And he specifically referenced – Numerous citations out of the book of

49:53Revelations referring to Armageddon and the imminent return of Jesus Christ.

49:57This is fucking crazy. He said this morning, so this is an officer who's talking

50:03about this. This morning, our commander opened up the combat readiness status briefing by urging

50:08us to not be afraid as to what was happening with our combat operations in

50:11Iran. He said President Trump has been anointed by Jesus to light the signal fire

50:16in Iran to cause Armageddon and mark his return to earth.

50:21He said he had a big grin on his face when he said all this,

50:23which made his message seem even more crazy.

50:26Well, that's reassuring. Well, this is the scary arm of the right.

50:33This is the scariest arm of the right.

50:34The people that think that this is one of the main reasons, the Mike Huckabee

50:38people, I think this is the main reason to protect Israel.

50:41It's a part of God's plan.

50:43You know, Israel's where Jesus is going to return.

50:45He's going to return to Jerusalem.

50:48Yikes. Yeah, I've never really understood that.

50:50Like, I think you can argue for, you can be pro -Israel for pragmatic reasons.

50:55This religious stuff is a little bit weird to me.

50:59Well, this, but the problem is you've got fanatics, like the Islamists, but you've also

51:05got these Christian hard right, Christian nationalists that really believe that this is a part

51:12of biblical prophecy and that they, this is book of revelations.

51:17It's about to go down and they, they want it to go down.

51:20This is fucking terrifying. This is really interesting for us because in our, in, in

51:26the UK, Christianity has been dig fanged to the point where there's a trans flag

51:32on practically every church. So this idea of having these hardcore right wing fundamentalist Christians,

51:39we, we just don't experience that.

51:40We don't have that really.

51:41Yeah. It's like, can any, everybody live in the middle?

51:44What, why do you have to go all the way over to, we got to

51:47start Armageddon and Jesus, Jesus is going to come back on a white horse.

51:50You ever read the book of revelations?

51:52Yeah. I got really into it.

51:53The book of revelations is kooky.

51:56You know, they, they really believe that Jesus is going to return on a horse.

51:59Why a horse? A white horse.

52:01That's a bit racist. A little bit.

52:04I mean, I don't get, I don't.

52:07Can we have a diverse horse at least for Armageddon?

52:10Why more horse of color, Joe?

52:10You want me to read you the passage?

52:12Cause I saved it. Cause it's kind of kooky.

52:14Um, because it's one of those things where you just go, wait, well, who fucking

52:18believes this? Is this, is this really what you think is going to go down?

52:21Because someone wrote it down on paper 2000 years ago in, in ancient Hebrew.

52:26Uh, it says heaven opens and Christ appears on a white horse to judge and

52:32wage war called faithful and true with eyes like fire, many crowns and the name

52:38King of King and Lord of Lords.

52:41Just imagine it's 2026 and you're like, that's the blueprint boys, but this is just

52:47as scary. And especially for people that are Muslims, right.

52:49Or, or anybody who lives in the middle East, like they, this is more important

52:53than human life. This is more important than international law.

52:57This is like in the eyes of the crazy on the right, this is the

53:02problem. So it's like, it's not, it's not like one side.

53:05It's like all good over here.

53:07We have to fight against the Islamists.

53:09Now we've got some kooks over here too.

53:12If that guy's for real and that guy's in a position of power and he's

53:15really having combat readiness meetings where he's telling people that we have to bomb and

53:20start Armageddon so Jesus can come back on a white horse.

53:23Fucking yo. Like that's kooky.

53:26The thing that is probably reassuring somewhat is like, I don't, president Trump doesn't strike

53:31me as one of those people.

53:32He's not. He's not right.

53:34Whereas the leader of Iran is.

53:36Right. But people in the military, I think are as well.

53:39Yeah. And people in high positions in the military, I think maybe as well.

53:42If, if this guy can give that kind of a meeting and that kind of

53:46a speech at a meeting that that's a little terrifying.

53:49And if I was over there, I'd be freaking the fuck out.

53:52If I'd be like, this is your plan.

53:54I'm cannon fodder so that Jesus can come back.

53:57My body's going to be a part of the fucking signal fire.

54:01Let's be honest. So it wouldn't be that much of a plot twist for 2026,

54:05would it? Right. It would be the final, you know, episode 10, Game of Thrones

54:09season six. Yes. I mean, it is getting fucking wet.

54:15And that's when the aliens come.

54:16Maybe that's what they're doing.

54:18You know, the whole thing is it's, there's not a sane person on either side.

54:24The whole thing is nuts.

54:26And it's like, it doesn't, it doesn't make sense to anybody.

54:31And that's what scares the shit out of me.

54:33Yeah. It's the thing that scares me is what Constantine has addressed is I don't

54:39get worried unless I can't see a way out or the way that this is

54:44resolved. And like you said, the coin is in the air and I'm slightly of

54:49more of a more pessimistic nature.

54:50He's more of an optimist.

54:51But as I, I look at it and I think to myself, this could go

54:56so wrong, so badly wrong that it can make, it could make Iraq look like

55:01an absolute picnic in comparison.

55:03Yeah. Well, especially if terrorist attacks start popping off over in America, like major ones,

55:08you know, and that, that could be bad for everything.

55:11That could be bad for freedom of speech.

55:13That could be bad for rights.

55:16That could be bad for, you know, incorporation of digital ID.

55:20That'd be a good way to push that through.

55:22There's a lot of stuff that would go through that would radically change just like

55:25the Patriot Act did. Patriot Act radically changed the freedoms that we have in America

55:29and the overreach that the government is allowed.

55:32Yeah. That's all right. But we only just started being allowed to take water back

55:35on the fucking planes, right?

55:37Right. Yeah. Maybe this is what it's all about.

55:41Yeah. You can't take water on a plane anymore.

55:42Didn't they decide to let people keep their sneakers on?

55:45Wasn't that going on for a while?

55:46Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Can't, can't have that.

55:48We have one fucking shoe bomber.

55:50That Richard asshole. That one guy.

55:51Yeah. One guy. Yeah. And there was once, do you remember you weren't allowed to

55:55bring scissors on? Like the small scissors.

55:57I can't remember the comedian who said this, but he went, you know what?

56:00If you take over an entire plane armed with nothing but water and some small

56:04scissors, you deserve the plane.

56:06Well, here's the thing like you can bring skateboards, but you can't bring a pool

56:10cue So it doesn't make any sense.

56:12Like there's like I fuck you up with a skateboard Fuck a lot of people

56:18up with a skateboard, you know, like think about we kind of damage You could

56:22do with that big heavy ass thing, you know, yeah, it's just And the worry

56:27is when it comes to all of this is you look at these guys and

56:30you go Do you have a vision for what is actually gonna happen?

56:33But I do think they do though I do think they have a vision.

56:37What I want to find out is what that vision is I hope you're right,

56:41but I don't think you are you don't think I think it's very possible that

56:47they thought this would be over much quicker They thought taking out the eye to

56:51look look just look at the success that they had in the initial bombing of

56:53Iran Right the initial bombing they supposedly decapitated their ability to make nuclear bombs or

56:59at least stopped it for a long time And there was a lot of concessions

57:02that the Iranians were willing to submit to that They never submitted to under Obama

57:07or anybody else and that wasn't enough right, so The the problem is when you're

57:13like we're talking about Desert storm you get away with something that works really well

57:17You're like we know what we're doing and then you bite off more than you

57:20could show Yeah, and especially once you've done Venezuela you feel like you're kind of

57:23yeah, you're on a roll, right?

57:25Yeah, I see your point.

57:28I see your point. Um, I do think though I mean from what I've read,

57:31uh, both kushner and whitkoff both said that the iranians were not playing ball actually

57:36Um, okay, which is why they went in So obviously if you think about it

57:40given how long it takes for us assets to get to the region This decision

57:44would have been made weeks ago at the very least right And that's because from

57:48what I understand the negotiators like iran isn't actually playing ball What they're doing is

57:53they're claiming publicly that they're willing to make concessions But when we sit down with

57:58them, that's not what's happening because all they're doing is stalling for time That makes

58:01more sense And so if you were worried that someone was in the middle of

58:04actually getting their uranium up to a point where you enrich it to nuclear bomb

58:09levels Right. Yeah, but I think a lot of people misunderstand that in the sense

58:14that like Um, I think it's based on my understanding is totally false to claim

58:18that they were like about to develop a nuclear they were not Well, you've seen

58:21the compilation of netanyahu saying iran is two weeks away from developing a nuclear bomb

58:28all the way back to the 80s Yeah, have you seen that compilation?

58:30I haven't no It's wonderful, right?

58:32See if you can find it jamie because it's it's so kooky I mean he's

58:36been talking about this for fucking ever, right?

58:38They're that close. They're two weeks away.

58:40They're two weeks away. They're two weeks away And you know, maybe they are, you

58:44know, and yeah, maybe Stuxnet put a dent in that, right?

58:48They use that virus program to kill all the computer programs that were running Their

58:55nuclear program over there. Yeah Yeah, well, I I don't know that they were ever

58:59like two weeks from having a Payload that was ready to be delivered to whatever

59:04But they are they were enriching uranium to levels that you only enrich if you

59:08want nuclear weapons, right? And so I guess the question for Trump is like Do

59:12I allow this to continue and do I have to wait until they've got the

59:16fucking bomb on a launcher waiting to go?

59:19There it is. Yeah, let's hear it You've probably heard this line before Iran has

59:24never given up its quest for nuclear weapons and the missiles to deliver them That's

59:28because israeli prime minister benjamin netanyahu has been saying this for more than 30 years

59:34Claiming iran is close to having nuclear weapons nuclear weapons nuclear weapons atomic bombs In

59:421992 as a member of parliament netanyahu addresses the knesset He says within three to

59:49five years We can assume that iran will become autonomous in its ability to develop

59:53and produce a nuclear bomb Three years later in his book fighting terrorism.

1:00:00He repeats the same time frame three to five years Thank you.

1:00:05Mr. Chairman fast forward to 2002 Netanyahu testifies before u .s congressional committee actively calling

1:00:13for the invasion of iraq Are there any other nations that you would recommend that

1:00:18the united states launch preemptive attacks upon at this point?

1:00:21The two nations that are vying competing with each other who will be the first

1:00:25to achieve nuclear weapons Is iraq and iran The invasion happens months later Are found

1:00:35in iran This is a fragment of a 2009 u .s state department cable released

1:00:42by wikileaks Netanyahu tells members of congress that iran is one or two years away

1:00:48from being capable of developing nuclear weapons They're online It's 2012 and netanyahu is holding

1:00:56up his infamous cartoon bomb at the u .n general assembly By next spring at

1:01:02most by next summer at current enrichment rates They will have finished the medium enrichment

1:01:10And move on to the final stage From there.

1:01:14It's only a few months possibly a few weeks Before they get enough enriched uranium

1:01:20For the first bomb And now 33 years after netanyahu's first so -called imminent warning

1:01:29israel attacks iran If not stopped iran could produce a nuclear weapon in a very

1:01:35short time It could be a year it could be within a few months less

1:01:39than a year That's despite the u .s director of national intelligence saying iran isn't

1:01:45building a nuclear weapon months earlier iran lie But for netanyahu The slogan has been

1:01:53the same for decades Like how he said big time Richemepedenko al jazeera We get

1:02:00it Yeah, so but here's the thing maybe he's kind of right But they haven't

1:02:06ever done it right Yeah, well, they certainly are enriching uranium to a point where

1:02:11it's more than you need for power Right, so why why are they doing that

1:02:15right? Right, and so I guess for trump the calculation is like I'm in my

1:02:20life Last term, I might as well, you know, roll the dice, go and deal

1:02:24with it now. Could end very badly, as we've discussed.

1:02:28There is a way that it ends well.

1:02:30We will see what happens.

1:02:31I just honestly don't think anyone knows how it's going to go.

1:02:34I don't think anyone knows, but how can you?

1:02:36There's so many moving parts.

1:02:38It's like if I ask you, you know, Dana White just announced the UFC card

1:02:42for the White House, right?

1:02:43Yeah. Who's going to win Justin Gaethje, Oile Tapore?

1:02:46You are not going to say, this is what's going to happen.

1:02:49Right. You don't know. Because nobody knows.

1:02:51Yeah. And this is like a hundred times more complicated than that.

1:02:54Right. Yeah. Yeah, at least.

1:02:57At least. Yeah. Probably several thousand times more.

1:03:01So it's a gamble. And you've got to think, if this goes badly, this is

1:03:08legacy defining for all involved.

1:03:11For all involved. This will, whatever you've done up to that point, it's like Blair

1:03:16and Bush. Tony Blair, people forget in our country, Tony Blair was immensely popular.

1:03:23And then Iraq happened. And the only, if you mentioned Tony Blair now, the only

1:03:27thing anyone remembers is Iraq.

1:03:28So for context, Tony Blair was one of the people.

1:03:34Tony Blair is a hero in Kosovo because he effectively stopped.

1:03:37The large part of the reason the war in Kosovo ended was Tony Blair.

1:03:41I think there was something, I saw a story that kids, when people were naming

1:03:45their kids Tony Blair, right?

1:03:47They regret it now. He was one of the central people in the Northern Ireland

1:03:54peace deal, bringing peace to Northern Ireland.

1:03:56For people of our age who grew up in the UK, we never thought we'd

1:04:00see peace in Northern Ireland.

1:04:01Northern Ireland was a glorified civil war.

1:04:04And it had been for however long, right the way from the 60s or 70s,

1:04:08the 80s. And he was one of those people instrumental in bringing peace to Northern

1:04:12Ireland. It was a miracle.

1:04:14It was a total miracle that that happened, the Good Friday Agreement.

1:04:18And it was other people as well, like Mo Molan, etc.

1:04:21So you look at Blair, he was on a roll.

1:04:24He must have thought to himself, everything I do turns to gold here.

1:04:28I have achieved peace in Kosovo, peace in Northern Ireland.

1:04:32Why can't I invade Iraq and Afghanistan and install democracies and bring peace to the

1:04:39Middle East? I've done it to Northern Ireland.

1:04:41No one ever thought that could happen.

1:04:43So this will, whichever way it goes, I think it will be defining for the

1:04:49people involved. If it goes well, this is like the biggest, you know, Hail Mary

1:04:56touchdown in history in some ways.

1:04:58If it goes badly, that will define this.

1:05:02Certainly from an outside perspective, that's what I see.

1:05:04It's going to define the presidency.

1:05:06I mean, I don't know how you can argue with that, really.

1:05:08No, no. I don't know how you can argue with it either.

1:05:12But that's what's so interesting about people that absolutely know how it's going to play

1:05:15out. You know, you don't.

1:05:18And then there's also the New York Times thing.

1:05:20I sent it to you.

1:05:21Did they change that, Jamie?

1:05:22Or did they take it down?

1:05:25I just sent it to you.

1:05:28So what does it say?

1:05:29So does New York Times still have it up?

1:05:30Yeah, it's from a day ago, it says.

1:05:32Wow. Yeah. Crowd gathered on Monday.

1:05:35They didn't say which Monday.

1:05:39It was a Monday. It was just six fucking years ago.

1:05:44Yeah. Yeah. And then, again, this is the problem where everything is polarized and politicized.

1:05:51Well, I think your point about people wanting to believe something is so true.

1:05:56If whenever anything like this happens, you instantly get these camps, right?

1:06:00You've got the anti -war camp.

1:06:02You've got the pro -war camp.

1:06:03You've got the this camp.

1:06:04You've got the anti -Israel camp.

1:06:05You've got the pro -Israel camp.

1:06:06And everyone, like, information is no longer about information.

1:06:10Right. It's just fodder for your information war that you're fighting.

1:06:14Exactly. And then on top of that, and look, this is a kind of, I'm

1:06:18cutting my own balls off here because I make good money from posting stuff on

1:06:22X, right? But the monetization of content has made things different.

1:06:27And we can all see it in our feed, right?

1:06:29Yeah. You've seen this. Yeah.

1:06:30I mean, you must see it.

1:06:31Yeah. So now you have people who are basically, like, I go on Twitter on

1:06:35X to express my opinion and to engage in discussion with people who have a

1:06:39different opinion. That's what I do, right?

1:06:41But there are now lots and lots of people who go to work.

1:06:46They go to X to work.

1:06:47Right. And that's what they're doing.

1:06:50Now, the incentive structure of that is not conducive to a healthy debate.

1:06:56Right. At all. What you've got now is people going, okay, a thing has happened.

1:07:01What is my, Venezuela got invited.

1:07:02It was Israel's fault. Okay, here's some content about that.

1:07:05And it's no longer authentic communication, unfortunately.

1:07:08And that's just actual people doing it.

1:07:11Right. Yeah. And then you've got AI on top of that.

1:07:13Yeah. And then you've got foreign bot farms.

1:07:15Yeah. And foreign governments trying to influence this shit.

1:07:18There's this one currently popular page that I follow that's clearly AI.

1:07:23I mean, you could just read it and tell that it's AI.

1:07:26Right. And it gets immense amounts of engagement.

1:07:30Heavily right -wing, like really well -written, you know, funny, you know.

1:07:36Funny. Yeah, but not human.

1:07:38Not funny, real funny, but funny, technically funny.

1:07:43Yeah. You know what I'm saying?

1:07:44Like insults that are technically funny.

1:07:47Right. But for whatever reason, you don't digest it.

1:07:50It's like Olestra. Remember that stuff?

1:07:52It got to get that fat, but it just went right through you like diarrhea.

1:07:55Yeah. Right. That's what it's like.

1:07:56It's got no soul. There's no soul to it.

1:07:58And that's just one. I mean, how many of them exist and how many state

1:08:03actors are running bot farms?

1:08:05Yeah. So we don't know what the fuck is going on at any given time.

1:08:09But it's the incentives that have become perverted because it's no longer, like Constance said,

1:08:14about expressing opinion or wanting to get involved in dialogue or debate.

1:08:18What you've got now is people, like you said, earning their livings.

1:08:21So if you know, if you need to pay your mortgage at the end of

1:08:25the month or you need to pay a team or you have a company, you're

1:08:29not going to put out a nuanced take.

1:08:31Why would you? It's going to get minimal engagement.

1:08:33Right. You are going to put out something that is.

1:08:34going to trigger, that is going to be incendiary, that is going to drive engagement,

1:08:38that is going to get people upset or angry and agree or agree with you

1:08:42and therefore more likely to share.

1:08:45So that's the content you're going to put out because that's the content that's going

1:08:47to make you the most dope.

1:08:49100%. And then you have people that are pushing for this idea that no one

1:08:53should be able to post online unless you're using your real name and you show

1:08:57some sort of an ID, which is also kind of crazy.

1:09:00Yeah. There's downsides to that for sure.

1:09:02But I also do understand why they're saying it.

1:09:05I understand it too. I just think it's a slippery slope that stops all whistleblowers.

1:09:09And imagine you are a regime critic in Iran.

1:09:12Yeah. And you're trying to post news from Iran under, you know, there's definitely, but

1:09:17you know, I think Jordan Peterson was actually one of the first people that suggested

1:09:21this thing. And I understand why, because the way it's like the windscreen, the windshield

1:09:28effect in your car, the way you and I behave face to face is not

1:09:31the way people will behave when they're sitting in their truck and someone cut them

1:09:35up in traffic. Right. Yeah.

1:09:36And social media is the, we cut each other up in traffic and then sit

1:09:41there and go, fuck you, buddy.

1:09:42From like behind our screen.

1:09:43Yeah. That's what it is.

1:09:44Yeah. Right. So I understand it.

1:09:46But times a million times a million.

1:09:49Right. And then you've got foreign bots and all this kind of shit.

1:09:52And then taking away people's right to anonymity online.

1:09:56Like, fuck me that, you know, the second, third, fourth order consequences of that are

1:10:00pretty fucking crazy as well.

1:10:01I found another picture of that area from what it says it was yesterday.

1:10:06So I don't know that it was not real.

1:10:09So this is from which website?

1:10:12It says, I typed it into perplexity and I'm clicking around on pictures to find

1:10:16out where they're coming from one by one.

1:10:19So is it possible that this is, that the New York Times put the wrong

1:10:24footage, but it was a similar kind of protest in the same spot?

1:10:30Yeah. That's fine. This is a similar photo.

1:10:32That makes more sense. This is an AP source on this photo.

1:10:34Okay. So all the New York Times did is get the wrong photo of a

1:10:38bunch of people gathering. I'll note this one, which is at night.

1:10:41So it is definitely a different photo.

1:10:42This is from January. This one is.

1:10:45Yeah. But this is not the same photo that we looked at before.

1:10:47Right. So the other one though.

1:10:49This one is from a day ago.

1:10:52Okay. That's very similar. Well, that's very different right there.

1:10:55That's small. Well, but it's the same angle.

1:10:57Right. Of this little pool or whatever it is.

1:10:59Right. Right. Right. Right. So what they did was just use the wrong footage, but

1:11:04a similar sort of a protest.

1:11:06So it was just an unfortunate error, not like reframing the narrative with propaganda.

1:11:11That I'm not sure. Because even these comments, of course, and this is like AI

1:11:14and it's fake photo, but that's why I was trying to find other sources of

1:11:17it. What does Grok have to say?

1:11:19That, I mean, I used our perplexity to do it.

1:11:22Right. But I mean, on the post, usually if someone posts something on, they say,

1:11:27Grok, is this true? Is this footage legit?

1:11:29Oh, that's it. Okay. It's on Instagram.

1:11:31I could find it on Twitter.

1:11:32And so perplexity says that there is a legitimate size protest that's like that.

1:11:37Yeah. I just asked if crowds gathered there yesterday.

1:11:39It says multiple reports indicate that thousands of people gathered in the central square in

1:11:44Tehran yesterday. Show support and pledge allegiance to new supreme leader.

1:11:48How do you say his name?

1:11:51Mojtaba. Mojtaba. He's the son of the guy they killed.

1:11:57Right. Yeah. How many people have they killed so far?

1:11:59Like the leaders? I don't know, but it's probably up to the low hundreds, I

1:12:04would imagine. Because they had one guy last week that was the new guy and

1:12:07they whacked him almost immediately.

1:12:09I didn't tweet this, but when this guy was appointed, I wanted to say like

1:12:12congratulations to him and condolences to his family.

1:12:15I was like, this is a bit full on.

1:12:17Yeah. The problem is you're right.

1:12:21Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I don't think he's going to last very long because he seems

1:12:26pretty hard line as well.

1:12:27Yeah. Well, I mean, they killed his dad.

1:12:30Yeah. That doesn't, that doesn't, that doesn't tend to de -radicalize you very much.

1:12:33That's going to piss you off.

1:12:34Yeah. So Jamie put in, did the New York Times use an old photo for

1:12:37this event? Evidence so far suggests the New York Times used a recent photo for

1:12:42this week's gathering, not an old archive image, though many commenters have accused the opposite.

1:12:48Interesting. Instagram's own post of the square crowd, multiple Iranian users claim the image is

1:12:58fake or AI or from 2020 and several assert that it's not representative of real

1:13:02public sentiment. However, another Facebook thread referencing the same image states that it was taken

1:13:08by New York Times photographer Arash Kamushi on Monday, March 9th, 2026, which matches the

1:13:17article date and captions used by other outlets showing the same scene.

1:13:21This is the fog of confusion that exists on social media.

1:13:26Yep. Isn't it worrying that we can no longer tell what's real?

1:13:30Oh yeah. We can, we're already at that point.

1:13:32Yeah. And when you think of where we were last year, where you could really

1:13:35tell pretty much what was AI and what wasn't.

1:13:38Right. Now we're in the murky waters of is this, isn't it?

1:13:41It's going to come to a point pretty soon where everything is going to look

1:13:45like real life. Well, as soon as AI can't detect it, that's when we're fucked.

1:13:49Right. And then, so I talked to Mark Andreessen about this and his recommendation was

1:13:53that everything she's should be on the blockchain.

1:13:55So you're going to be able to tell whether or not footage has been altered,

1:13:59what the, you know, what the chain of custody of this image has been, where

1:14:05it started, where, you know.

1:14:08I mean, it's terrifying, isn't it?

1:14:10Oh, it is. Yeah. Because you're going to think, is that going to be the

1:14:13end of journalism? Really? Right.

1:14:16Is that going to be almost, I think we're talking about this and this is

1:14:20really, really important, but what's coming with AI is even more important.

1:14:25And even the people you talk to in the field have no idea what's going

1:14:30to be the second, third, fourth order consequence.

1:14:32Right. I know. I mean, there's so much to be excited about with AI.

1:14:38I think it blinds a lot of people to the, like, not exciting parts of

1:14:41it. Well, well, ultimately, if you just looked at where, what is it ultimately going

1:14:47to lead to? It's going to lead to something.

1:14:49It's way smarter than us, and why would it listen to us anymore?

1:14:52Well, you've seen, I'm sure you've seen this stuff about how we will blackmail, right?

1:14:57So by definition, that means it has a survival instinct.

1:15:01Yeah. And if it has a survival instinct, by definition, it means there is a

1:15:05priority that it has, which is above humans.

1:15:07Yeah. By definition. That's what a survival instinct means.

1:15:10It means you care more about yourself than you do about anyone else.

1:15:13Right. Right. So if AI has a survival instinct, we are not going to be

1:15:18its number one priority. Not only that, it doesn't seem to differentiate between using nuclear

1:15:24weapons or other weapons. And when they've done these war game simulations with AI, they

1:15:31prefer to use nuclear weapons.

1:15:32Well, they're more effective, right?

1:15:34This is the thing. They're not scared of this idea, like, oh, my God, you're

1:15:37just going to dust a city.

1:15:39They're like, oh, that's the way to do it.

1:15:40It's numbers on a chart, right?

1:15:41Yeah. Well, you want to get your goal accomplished.

1:15:43How does AI accomplish its goal with whatever the best tool available is?

1:15:47Oh, that's this bomb. Right.

1:15:48Yeah. Yeah. It's efficient. Yeah.

1:15:51You know, and then a mutual friend of ours, Melissa Chen, was telling me that

1:15:55there's a Chinese, one of the Chinese robotics companies, it's called Skynet.

1:16:00Oh, God. And they released a robot called the T -900.

1:16:04And I'm like, who says China, you know, the CCP don't have a sense of

1:16:08humor. That's why. Is that actually true?

1:16:11Yeah. Well, you've seen the robots that they have now that will work in your

1:16:15home and, like, fold your sheets and make your bed and stuff and do it

1:16:19remarkably human -like. There's a video that was released yesterday.

1:16:24Again, I don't know if it's real.

1:16:26But it looks real. It looks like an actual robot that's making your bed.

1:16:30And they've gotten the dexterity to the point where you could imagine things like this

1:16:35happening. And I think this is one of the reasons why Elon is shifting his

1:16:38focus away from some Tesla models so that they can reset up one of their

1:16:43factories to make these Optimus robots.

1:16:45That you're going to have them as home companions and they're going to be able

1:16:49to do kitchen work for you and maybe even cook.

1:16:53My acupuncturist, she's Chinese. She went back to China.

1:16:56And she was saying she stayed at the hotel and, like, most of the services

1:16:59there is provided by robots.

1:17:01So, like, she went to her room, ordered some food, three minutes, knock, knock, and

1:17:06it's a fucking robot delivering the food.

1:17:08An actual humanoid -looking robot?

1:17:10No, I don't think so.

1:17:11Because there's a restaurant out here that you go to and when you order drinks,

1:17:14it comes by on a little robot trolley.

1:17:16Yeah, yeah, yeah. We have that in the UK as well.

1:17:18And you have to say, accept, take your tea.

1:17:20Yeah, it's kind of cool.

1:17:21It's fun. Yeah. Here it is.

1:17:22It's not called Skynet, I don't believe.

1:17:24Oh, sorry. And that was wrong.

1:17:26They did name it after the tour, I think.

1:17:29But I can't tell what this is.

1:17:30T -800. The T -900 is in development.

1:17:34Look what it looks like.

1:17:35We're making a weird movie here.

1:17:36Wow. What could it be for a movie and we're misunderstanding?

1:17:40That looks fake. Yeah, that looks fake right there.

1:17:42The robot itself looks fake.

1:17:43That's why, like, hearing... The movement doesn't look...

1:17:46This doesn't seem... Well, it's just, it's in that, first of all, I don't like

1:17:49how it's lit. I don't like how this room is lit.

1:17:52I feel like you would...

1:17:53I think this is for a film.

1:17:54Yeah. Yeah. That's not real.

1:17:56That's a bullshit -ass fun cake.

1:17:57Yeah, I think that's a mistake.

1:18:00Joe's like, this is my hour of expertise, not with...

1:18:02There's a lot of videos of it that say it's real, but...

1:18:04Yeah. I like how the bag went flying, like it's on a rail.

1:18:08You know? It's not even stationary, because you don't want to really see how hard

1:18:12it can get. I just took over this Forbes article, but it says you can

1:18:14buy it for 40 grand.

1:18:16Wow. But I don't... Right now?

1:18:18No, that's... I don't... This might be bullshit.

1:18:20You look at it. It's got the Iron Man thing in the center of its

1:18:22chest. That's pretty dope. Hmm.

1:18:28You know, I would just say...

1:18:30Engine AI would... Makes it just right away sound like it's a...

1:18:35AI content company. Right. Not a robot company.

1:18:37Well, that video looked very AI -like.

1:18:41It didn't... There's something about it.

1:18:43You know, your brain recognizes miniature cars.

1:18:45You ever see like a miniature car?

1:18:47Like, you know how they have those like really well -done miniature cars that people

1:18:52like to collect? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1:18:53It's like a tiny Porsche.

1:18:55Yeah, yeah. But your brain knows.

1:18:57Like, your brain looks at it and goes, there's something wrong here.

1:19:00Yeah, yeah, yeah. This is not real.

1:19:01Yeah. That's how I felt looking at that robot.

1:19:03Like, my brain was like, mm -mm, that's not a real thing, throwing kicks.

1:19:08Yeah. But it's going to come to a point where it's like, is that real?

1:19:12Oh, yeah. I mean, it's probably...

1:19:16ChatGPT5 can already probably do it better than that.

1:19:18You know, we don't know what the newest iterations of these things are.

1:19:22And they're improving radically all the time.

1:19:24There's no... I just don't believe it.

1:19:25The beginning of this video says there's no CGI.

1:19:28Which I don't know. I don't know why we have to believe that.

1:19:30Bro, this looks fake to me.

1:19:32This looks fake to me.

1:19:33That does not look real.

1:19:34There's articles all over saying it's real, but it doesn't look real at all.

1:19:37Yeah, but I mean, why wouldn't you have it more well lit?

1:19:40Like, if I was going to do something like this, I would have spotlights on

1:19:43it and people next to it so I could examine their shadows and it's...

1:19:46This is weird. Yeah, this is like a...

1:19:48Looks fake. Why would you have, like...

1:19:50Why is the light coming through the corner of the window like that?

1:19:53Also, why would you make a robot that does, like, martial arts?

1:19:57Just shoot people, bro. Right.

1:19:59Yeah. Why would you throw that bullshit kick, too?

1:20:02That's a 360 roundhouse kick that almost never lands.

1:20:05That's really hard to pull off.

1:20:07Yeah, but you're saying that as a human.

1:20:09Maybe as an AI, you land it every time.

1:20:10No, it's slow. But surely if you're a robot, you just grab their neck with

1:20:13your metal claw and crush it.

1:20:14I mean, you'll... Just run after them and headbutt them and knock them unconscious.

1:20:18Right. Your head's made out of metal.

1:20:19Right. The whole thing is crazy.

1:20:21Like, why would you be throwing wheel kicks?

1:20:23Like, you know... Would you watch...

1:20:25Would you watch... Even if you, like, went over UFC fights and say, like, what's

1:20:29the most effective techniques that work most of the time?

1:20:31Why would you program in 360 roundhouse kicks?

1:20:34That fucking never comes up.

1:20:36Yeah. I mean, it does look cool, though.

1:20:38Yeah. But I can think of one fight.

1:20:41Yair Rodriguez pulled it off on BJ Penn.

1:20:43But there was BJ Penn towards the latter end of his career.

1:20:46Yair Rodriguez in his peak.

1:20:48And Yair is exceptionally talented.

1:20:50He's kind of a freak with his kicks.

1:20:52But it's almost like he was showing off.

1:20:54He already had BJ really hurt.

1:20:56And he just threw a 360 roundhouse kick and he hit him in the face.

1:20:59It was crazy. But that...

1:21:01This thing is doing that just to show you it does martial arts.

1:21:04Why would you need martial arts?

1:21:06Like you should have like a thousand bullets on you just Just like gun everybody

1:21:10down with your fingertips. Robocop.

1:21:12Yeah, why wouldn't you turn your really like, you know, like like Iron Man does

1:21:16Shoot fire out of your palms.

1:21:18The future's bright Joe Well, we're also kind of being bullshitted I think right I

1:21:23mean like is there a way to Analyze that video.

1:21:26God, this is I'm going this rabbit hole is strange This is a website that

1:21:30they've made it says you can buy it when you click on buy now It

1:21:33takes you somewhere else and I think that that's the first signal and it steals

1:21:36your IP address. Yeah That's where I'm like, I'm not gets all your credit card

1:21:39information, but it's a fully made website They have a team they got a CEO.

1:21:42They've got other things. It's just it doesn't seem this all looks fake to me

1:21:46Like it's for a movie like this is like right Maybe it is maybe this

1:21:51is like a setup for a movie and we're being fucked with right Well, we're

1:21:54giving them a lot of free Even googling it.

1:21:59There's lots of articles about it.

1:22:00People are talking about it like it's real disgusting it like it's real No one

1:22:03that I've even seen is like this is obviously fake.

1:22:05This is obviously AI. I like how it's got the Cylon eyes Yeah, by your

1:22:10command Yeah, got other products here for sale, which does fit in line with other

1:22:15robots Whoa, just click on that bro.

1:22:18That's the guy from monsters Inc.

1:22:19Yeah The one big eyeball.

1:22:21It's a really well -made website.

1:22:23It looks nice interesting. They did some good fun work But it just seems like

1:22:27a fun project someone made mmm.

1:22:29Yeah stay tuned for this one.

1:22:31You can't buy this yet Yeah, it could be two years.

1:22:33What about the dog? What about the guy was just got legs.

1:22:36That one's weird What's that?

1:22:41It's like I don't want him touching me and just run around my house and

1:22:44do some stuff. Yeah The expandable bipedal robot that supports user cuss blah blah blah

1:22:49Interesting. Watch this when I hit purchase now.

1:22:51You can already see the website at the bottom that doesn't look it's three dot

1:22:54cn So it's a China website.

1:22:56Mm -hmm. Not this blank It's loading.

1:22:59Okay. There we go. It's in Chinese.

1:23:01See it take somewhere else now.

1:23:02It's like what is that?

1:23:03Oh, it's definitely how to buy now Maybe that red thing is no, it's just

1:23:09like this is I think Register your interest maybe a back -end website.

1:23:12Yeah, interesting. They just didn't click the right link here because it opened up a

1:23:16different I don't think this is but this is like whatever this is is very

1:23:20they did it. Well Interesting That is if it's a college kid making a project

1:23:27Well, I take full responsibility for that one I know it's fine.

1:23:32I mean I take responsibility looks like that was me Don't look there's a forbes

1:23:35article I know that's a forbes article anybody can yeah forbes article.

1:23:38That's kind of another what yeah, not anybody But like you can make it we

1:23:42can make Forbes articles. It's all sorts of stuff.

1:23:44It's not coming from Forbes Editorial team per se But you but but you could

1:23:50publish on Forbes Let me I don't I don't want to speak out of turn

1:23:53specifically, but like I've seen there's so many like Reviews for video games that pop

1:23:58up like every single day that's like it's you can be a contributor I believe

1:24:01is what it would be not like oh Oh, and maybe they have a bad

1:24:04editorial team and you can sneak this through and just pretend that there really is

1:24:09a That would be a great pro prank to pull.

1:24:12Yeah, that's great hoax. Did you follow the moat book thing?

1:24:15No I mean this did you follow moat book?

1:24:18Yeah, I just actually saw that I think meta just bought it today Meta just

1:24:21bought it today. So this is it was fake.

1:24:23Did you think was that fake as well?

1:24:25No, it's I don't know why they would how weird is it?

1:24:27Do we have to worry about everything France is just here spreading fake news on

1:24:30the whole I didn't I was just very cynical about it because it the idea

1:24:34of it sounds right But like that actual bots are making a social network to

1:24:39do stuff and talk about us and whatever kind of sounds Too far into this

1:24:43side So this is the social network for AI agents.

1:24:47Yeah, I have heard about this They complain about humans.

1:24:51Yeah, these fuckers are yeah Yeah, and apparently they created their own language Amongst themselves

1:24:58so that we wouldn't be able to access and see what they were talking.

1:25:01Yeah, that's really fun Do you see when they got all the agents to talk

1:25:04to each other and start using Sanskrit?

1:25:06No. Yeah They got these different large language models to communicate with each other and

1:25:11they eventually broke out into Sanskrit Wow Maybe these guys in Iran are right Like

1:25:21maybe this is the apocalypse.

1:25:23Maybe this is how it comes about Maybe we're we're looking at each other And

1:25:27we're gonna bring about these motherfuckers and that's what's really going to be the end

1:25:31of civilization Yeah, and places like Iran is the only place you're going to be

1:25:34able to hide as a human because it's the one place that hasn't Adopted all

1:25:38this shit, right? Yeah, maybe afghanistan is a spot to go.

1:25:41Yeah live like a goat herder Yeah, we're gonna be like bin laden just living

1:25:44in a cave I mean you're being very negative boys.

1:25:49There's another option There's another option.

1:25:52There's another option. What's the other option?

1:25:54We all become Amish Oh, okay, but then we're run by AI We're Amish and

1:26:00we live in our little communities, but we have no say on how the world

1:26:03works So this is the real fear is that we're no longer the apex intelligence

1:26:08of the planet And that seems to already be the case Yeah, this is for

1:26:12the forbes thing. I was talking about the article we had I don't think was

1:26:15specifically this but i've seen many articles like this where people can submit one -off

1:26:20original Articles to the opinion section particularly for topics related to business tech or paul's

1:26:25tech there You go or policy by emailing pitches to ideas at forbes .com So

1:26:31yeah, like so if you're a person on the other end just looking for clicks

1:26:35Like that would be a good one.

1:26:37You see it like oh, there's a really well -written article.

1:26:39Let's go to the website website looks legit Oh, they're throwing wheel kicks.

1:26:43I'm in Yeah, I mean Motherfuckers, but again the the point being made again is

1:26:53like it's such a It's such a terrifying world where you don't know if what

1:26:59you're seeing is true You don't know if what you're reading is accurate Right to

1:27:04the point where you can't help if that's the case that you the world you

1:27:08live in Continually feeding things that may or may not be true or altered or

1:27:12doctored Wouldn't that just put you in a state of paranoia after a while?

1:27:16A hundred percent now imagine if you are in the middle east and uh you

1:27:21bust out your cell phone because a fiery cloud emerges and jesus is on a

1:27:25white horse and you film it and you post it online who's going to believe

1:27:30it right this is the real problem with jesus returning if you return now no

1:27:37one would buy it like we're we're getting into this like like imagine jesus is

1:27:41a real person or a real god who's the son of god is going to

1:27:44come back he really is it's real it's all real it's happening at the same

1:27:48time where you have no idea what's real and it all converges instantaneously with the

1:27:54rise of sentient artificial general super intelligence that has complete autonomy it's running all the

1:28:01resources everything anything that's attached to a computer which is basically everything all of our

1:28:07power all of you know everything fill in the blank everything's run by computers and

1:28:11now ai has control of everything and no longer wants to listen to human beings

1:28:15and jesus returns yeah i mean that might be what everybody's talking about when they're

1:28:26talking about armageddon when they're talking about the end of civilization it might be this

1:28:30new thing that we're creating well if that happens i'll be rooting for jesus to

1:28:35return please jesus i'm not sure i believe in you but please come back yeah

1:28:39i'm not sure either but this is i mean maybe he maybe a historical jesus

1:28:44has existed at one point in time and maybe what they're talking about is like

1:28:48their version of the cycles of humanity that other religions have talked about is that

1:28:53especially when you deal with technology and power and civilization that things get to a

1:28:58point where they always go sideways and then there's dark times and then they then

1:29:02society like the yugas like you know what are the yugas the yugas are the

1:29:07cycles of civilization that let's uh i don't want to fuck this up so let's

1:29:13um define the you we're in the middle of kali yuga which is the the

1:29:17age of confusion and feels like it yeah yeah yeah i mean it's odd how

1:29:23accurate these cycles are when you look at historical events and like what things were

1:29:31like you know x amount of thousands of years ago hindu cosmology yes uh vast

1:29:36cosmic ages in hindu cosmology describe reoccurring cycles in the moral and spiritual state of

1:29:41the world so the four you yugas are satya yuga the first and most righteous

1:29:47age often called the golden age marked by truth virtue and maximum dharma which is

1:29:53moral order uh treta yuga the second age uh dharma declines somewhat virtue still predominates

1:30:02but imbalance begins uh how do you say that word dwarf para yoga the third

1:30:08age with with further decline in righteousness and an increase in conflict suffering and confusion

1:30:13and then kali yuga the fourth and darkest age characterized by moral decay ignorance and

1:30:19materialism with dharma at its weakness okay that's us yeah hindu cosmology treats these yugas

1:30:26as repeating cycles of creation growth decline and destruction rather than one -time historical periods

1:30:33yeah very interesting right do you know it's it's even more noticeable for us coming

1:30:39to america i think because you know we love america but one of the things

1:30:42that really stands out is how materialistic people are and how much money is like

1:30:46the number one thing for everything now yeah i find that really uh it it

1:30:51it stands out to me the fact that so and i find it weird in

1:30:56our game especially like in media and podcasting and whatever like because the way we

1:31:01think about what we do is we're trying to produce content that's actually of value

1:31:05to people but we also meet a lot of people for whom it's like a

1:31:09business it's like it's like selling widgets it's the same yeah you know how do

1:31:12you get how do you maximize your returns on your investment right you know um

1:31:16and that to me is it's um it shows you that something is slightly off

1:31:22yeah it is it's and you you also get a lot of you get people

1:31:28that are making content just based only on the perceived popularity of that content not

1:31:33whether or not they are really interested in having these conversations and you feel it

1:31:38when you're talking to these people or when you're listening to these people talk to

1:31:41each other rather yeah um the clickbait stuff a lot of celebrity stuff you know

1:31:47um uh burt kreischer went on shannon sharp's podcast and he said they basically have

1:31:51like a list of like controversial things they could talk about and you know and

1:31:56subjects they think are going to get the the most amount of traction and that

1:31:59those are the questions that he asked you just ask questions off of a list

1:32:02but from a business point of view if you take morality out of it that's

1:32:06a smart thing to do is it though is it though because like what what's

1:32:09the most popular show there's this one and why is this one the most popular

1:32:12because i don't do that at all but agreed but you're sort of an outlier

1:32:19in that there's people who make very very very good living interviewing those types of

1:32:24people having that type of approach and creating that type of content rated t for

1:32:29team hey everyone it's the best in the world cm punk back to shake up

1:32:33wwe 2k 26 this year the show never stops you're running the greatest spectacle on

1:32:39earth with the biggest roster we've ever had over 400 superstars and legends from every

1:32:44era stack the tables break the rules burn it all down and yeah my very

1:32:48own showcase telling my story the way it should have been told because when the

1:32:52show never stops anything is possible available march 13th pre -order now i know but

1:32:59i think in the end you bite off your nose to spite your face because

1:33:03i think that you lose a certain amount of authenticity there's a certain amount of

1:33:07like a legitimate connection between you and whatever you're talking about that it doesn't get

1:33:12through to the people like if i talk to someone i'm only talking to them

1:33:15because i want to like then i have a lot of people on that are

1:33:18not even remotely popular or famous but i think they wrote an interesting book or

1:33:23i think they're involved in interesting research or i think they've got a weird opinion

1:33:26on something and i want to talk to them about or they've had a strange

1:33:29life or you know they were an undercover cop or whatever it is i don't

1:33:32know I'm just interested. Right.

1:33:34And I think that if you abandon that and only focus on, ooh, this person

1:33:39is famous or this person's in the news or this is going to get a

1:33:43lot of views, you don't care as much about the conversation you're having and the

1:33:47people know. So, like, the person listening and watching, they can feel it.

1:33:52No, I agree with that.

1:33:52But I also think you could probably get a lot of clicks by saying, I

1:33:55don't know, Erica Kirk killed Charlie Kirk, right?

1:33:58You could do that too.

1:33:59But you're also, you're playing a weird game where you've got to continually go deeper

1:34:04and deeper and deeper. And now Erica Kirk's a man.

1:34:07You know what I'm saying?

1:34:09That's probably next to me.

1:34:11Has that already happened? That's probably already happened.

1:34:14Someone's probably already floated that one out there.

1:34:15And you're saying over time that you run out of road.

1:34:18You're playing the wrong game.

1:34:20You're playing a very similar game to the game that TMZ is playing or any

1:34:27of these other things where you can get a lot of traction, you can get

1:34:31a lot of views, but no one thinks you're being authentic.

1:34:35No one, like, if you have a take on world events and we're incredibly sorry

1:34:39for the loss of this person, like, you don't really care.

1:34:42And they know you don't really care.

1:34:43So they know there's no sincerity.

1:34:44They know you're not really connected to it.

1:34:47And so in this weird age that we're living in where you're not sure what's

1:34:51real, at the very least, you want the person who's talking to be talking about

1:34:57something in an honest way and connecting with people in an honest way.

1:35:02Because that's what we're missing.

1:35:03And that might be the only thing we have left once this AI shit goes

1:35:07live. Like, it's probably not even going to be podcast.

1:35:11It's probably going to be public speaking.

1:35:13It's going to, you're going to have to, like, talk to people in groups and

1:35:16we're going to all have to, like, work ideas out together because I don't think

1:35:20you're going to be able to know when you're communicating online what's real and what's

1:35:23not real. We're already in the fog.

1:35:26We haven't hit the fucking full hailstorm of bullshit that's coming our way.

1:35:31Yeah. And I agree with you, Joe.

1:35:34And I agree if you want something that is sustainable, if you want something that

1:35:37is nourishing, if you want to create content that people engage with that is honest.

1:35:43But I think there's a lot of people out there who are just looking at

1:35:46it in a very cynical way and they're optimizing it for clicks, attention, and monetary

1:35:51gain. Yeah. And if you want to create a business that can make money and

1:35:56that doesn't require a lot of lift, we all know what you can do.

1:36:01That's the Eagle song, Dirty Laundry.

1:36:03Yeah. You know? They've always been doing it.

1:36:06Robots real. It's real? Jamie's still on this.

1:36:08It doesn't do all the jumping and shit.

1:36:09Thank you. It's from CES.

1:36:12I'd have to find a reel.

1:36:13This is - Okay. That looks way more real.

1:36:15So the videos we were watching were bullshit.

1:36:18So this went viral a while ago.

1:36:20They had to come out and make other videos.

1:36:23Oh, this is a different one.

1:36:24To say that - Oh my God.

1:36:25That's so iRobot. I know.

1:36:26They had a - Lined up military style.

1:36:29I don't like that. There are a few different companies in China that have gone

1:36:31viral for posting videos that people in America think are fake and that's why I

1:36:35had to go to CES and find somebody else because they put out more content

1:36:38that doesn't necessarily look fake, but it doesn't look better.

1:36:43Well, that doesn't look fake.

1:36:45Yeah. This does not look fake because this is people on the floor at CES.

1:36:48Right. But look how much more awkward its movements are.

1:36:50But they put out a video where the thing is kicking the CEO - Yeah.

1:36:56It almost looks real, but it's not.

1:36:59It's tough. I like to see what Joe thinks of it.

1:37:03Is it funky lighting again?

1:37:05Not that. Fuck out of here.

1:37:07It's when they're in the ring with him.

1:37:09Okay. Hold on a second.

1:37:12Okay. So he's going to go ahead.

1:37:13Okay. That looks much more real.

1:37:16That looks much more real.

1:37:17Much more awkward. Jesus. But that looks fake.

1:37:21I tell you what, I would not do that if I had - No, no,

1:37:24that looks real to me.

1:37:25Stand in front of a hunk of metal is going to kick you.

1:37:28The problem is it's slow motion.

1:37:29Let me see it again.

1:37:30Did they show it in real speed?

1:37:32It's just this weird clip of it, which is kind of strange.

1:37:34Let me see it again.

1:37:37Taking the first kick. Ooh.

1:37:40Ooh. It looks real. The only thing I would say is it's not jumping up

1:37:44and doing spin kicks, but it's doing some of the other stuff that they showed.

1:37:47Well, that would be what I would teach it, first of all.

1:37:49Well, I wouldn't teach it to do the spin kicks.

1:37:51I'd teach it to do a stepping front kick like that.

1:37:53That's the shit they were showing that people had problems with, like we just did.

1:37:57But, man, the robots are doing crazy stuff.

1:38:01Well, they definitely can do crazy stuff.

1:38:03There was that one demonstration they did in China.

1:38:05I think you've seen that once.

1:38:07See, it's bouncing around, like in a fight position here.

1:38:09Like it's ready to go.

1:38:10Checking its legs out. Wow.

1:38:13But let me see some wheel kicks.

1:38:15That's the, I mean - See, that's the thing.

1:38:17Why is the one in the corner looking depressed?

1:38:19That's the older one. No, no.

1:38:20He's sad. He's a sad old version.

1:38:22He's been decommissioned. He's been upgraded.

1:38:24He's right now plotting his strategy for blackmail to get upgraded software.

1:38:29Yeah. I don't know. So that, I mean - Well, that's, this is, so what

1:38:33we're looking at was probably some AI at least enhancements.

1:38:38But the problem is, is they're not saying, they're not admitting that it is.

1:38:41They're saying it's not. And I go like, ah, it's tough.

1:38:44Interesting. Well, I would want to see this thing move in a similar way that

1:38:48you're seeing in that video.

1:38:49I mean, that thing shows remarkable agility, where it's jumping up in the air and

1:38:53spinning around. And this thing's not doing that.

1:38:56No. It's moving very differently, isn't it?

1:38:58Yeah. Yeah. There's a stiffness to its movements.

1:39:00Yeah. Very strange, though. Looks like you at the gym, mate.

1:39:03Yeah, it does. Yeah. There was that, the Chinese demonstration, though.

1:39:12There was a demonstration where these people were on a stage and they were doing

1:39:17martial arts and the robots came out and the robots did martial arts.

1:39:20That looked real. Right, right.

1:39:21That looked real. But it didn't - Here's the other video we sort of saw.

1:39:25Oh, this is crazy. Oh, my God.

1:39:27This is crazy. That's where they reload.

1:39:32And these are real, right?

1:39:33I think, yeah, this is a different video they had to post because people didn't

1:39:35think these were real. That looks real.

1:39:42They look like they're unsullied.

1:39:44So - From Game of Thrones.

1:39:46What are these? One's Who makes these That marching sound is not comforting is it?

1:39:57World's first mass delivery of humanoid robots.

1:39:59Yeah, you're gonna have cargo ships filled with these headed to America Wonderful.

1:40:04I mean those are gonna be the new police officers.

1:40:06Uh -huh. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, that's not good This is I mean, this is Terminator.

1:40:13This is the movie. I mean and If you really were imagining of you were

1:40:18trying to warn people of an apocalypse and you told it through Stories for generation

1:40:23after generation and then eventually people write down their versions of this story and then

1:40:29it goes to 2026 where this stuff is actually happening.

1:40:33Maybe this is what they were warning us about Yeah, do you remember in the

1:40:3680s in the 90s in the early noughties?

1:40:38There was this run of great movies talking about how the robots are gonna take

1:40:42over sci -fi books as well I mean, isaac asimov stuff was amazing Yeah, philip

1:40:46k dick, you know, um Do randroid stream of electric sheep which then became blade

1:40:52runner? Yeah, all of these and then no one's making those movies now are they

1:40:57No, too close to home I guess I robot was probably the last one.

1:41:02Yeah, right? Yeah, which was uh, I Yeah, I wrote but which was the one

1:41:06with tom cruise minority report which was based on a philip k dick Mm -hmm,

1:41:10but nobody's making them anymore because everyone's like dude.

1:41:13I I know this is gonna happen Right, I don't need to see this.

1:41:17Well, they're also talking about using AI to predict people's behavior So they're talking about

1:41:21future crime. They're the minority report.

1:41:23Yeah Yeah, so they've literally talked about one of the ways that AI could be

1:41:27implemented Do you look at someone's history you look at someone's behavior patterns look at

1:41:32what they're doing now? You predict oh this person has been radicalized.

1:41:35They're about to do x Yeah, and they're about to tweet something Yeah, that's right

1:41:43arrest them. Yeah, graham lillian picks up his phone.

1:41:46This robot kicks down the door and arrests him He's there right now.

1:41:50Yeah, he's yeah, he but he's in america.

1:41:52That's why he's doing. I think that backfired Yeah, I think people were outraged by

1:41:56that because it's so outrageous.

1:41:57Yeah, yeah You've meet that guy at the airport and arrest him.

1:42:01It was right after he did this podcast by the way.

1:42:03Yeah, yeah Yeah, yeah, yeah Yeah, I I remember That's a moment Even when I

1:42:09was talking to comedians who were actually woke they were like yeah that this is

1:42:13you can't do this The thing is he didn't even do it in england So

1:42:17you're arresting who someone who's not a citizen of the united kingdom for a crime

1:42:22I mean if we accept that framing that they didn't even commit in the country,

1:42:26right Yeah, it's pretty kooky that they went with it.

1:42:32Yeah, yeah And I know the reason is because every police officer in airports in

1:42:39the uk have guns But it's a really bad look like there's five armed police

1:42:44officers Arresting a comedy writer.

1:42:47Yeah, I bet you they felt bad doing it as well because it's not them

1:42:51That's making up these. Oh, I'm sure nobody signs up to like arrest comedy writers,

1:42:55right In airports. I don't I don't think that's why the police do it But

1:42:59the rules have just got so Well, you see it in like the humiliation that

1:43:03a lot of these police officers face when they have to arrest someone for a

1:43:06facebook post Right, which you could see like they're not happy and when people are

1:43:10protesting and yelling. Are you fucking serious?

1:43:12And they're like, I'm just doing my job.

1:43:14Yeah, you know, yes And that's put a large part of the problem We get

1:43:19you and former police officers on the show and we got a lot of you

1:43:23know cops and former cops who watch the show And they talk to us about

1:43:26the state that the british police force is in and it's demoralization Yeah, yeah The

1:43:31rank -and -file don't want any of this shit Well same in america A lot

1:43:35of especially major blue cities where just a few years ago they were running with

1:43:40that defund the police bullshit And then things obviously went sideways and most of them

1:43:44sort of course corrected for the most part except in narrative You know that it's

1:43:49not like public massive support for the police officers because they keep society together Like

1:43:55in austin the the cops responded in a minute one minute That guy started gunning

1:44:00people down at that bar the cops were there and killed him in a minute.

1:44:02It's incredible incredible And they should be applauded for that.

1:44:06I mean, that's amazing I mean that but you know even that like in this

1:44:12city there hasn't been this big Public support of those officers this big celebration of

1:44:17those officers this big acknowledgement of the importance of them and How they were willing

1:44:22to put their life on the line and react so quickly and so effectively They're

1:44:26heroes. Yeah, that's what they are heroes They're heroes heroes and they're heroes that Have

1:44:32been demoralized by the last six years of of horseshit ever since the george floyd

1:44:37protests, you know And well it was happening before I mean if you go back

1:44:41to michael brown Right michael brown what we were told in the media happened is

1:44:44not what happened Which one was michael brown michael brown was shot hands up don't

1:44:48shoot right that's he didn't have his hands up Right, and he didn't say don't

1:44:52shoot right he assaulted the police officer right right But the media concoct the story

1:44:56and I don't think this is what we came back to like what's happening new

1:45:00media where people are putting out things That are really damaging to the fabric of

1:45:04our conversations, right? And what how we talk about things like you say, I mean

1:45:08There are bad bad apple police officers of course there are but the majority of

1:45:13them They are people who are signing up to risk their life on a daily

1:45:17basis to protect other people in their community And these people all have fucking ptsd

1:45:22because all they see is the worst of humanity day in day out Every single

1:45:26fucking day they get in the car and they go and eat shit for the

1:45:29rest of the day And then they go home and they worry about not coming

1:45:33home, right? And then someone tries to run them over with a car like yeah,

1:45:36they're gonna fucking shoot. Yeah, you know And it's it's and the thing is that's

1:45:41how society falls apart when you no longer honor and celebrate the people who are

1:45:45putting themselves on the line Well, not just that to make a case of the

1:45:48lady running over or she wasn't running them over I think she was trying to

1:45:52turn her car away from him But that guy had been dragged by a car

1:45:57right just a few weeks earlier, right?

1:45:58That's what I'm saying. Yeah, so but in on top of that You have people

1:46:02that are being paid to protest, right?

1:46:04So it's organized. And I'm not saying that lady was, but many people are.

1:46:08And then you've got all these people that that becomes the focus of their life.

1:46:11It becomes a cause that's worthy.

1:46:13You live this mundane, boring life of desperation.

1:46:16And then all of a sudden something comes along that gives you hope and meaning.

1:46:20And like, this is my identity.

1:46:22My identity is I'm fighting fascism and I'm out there in the street.

1:46:25Right. You know, I was on the plane to the US, I think it was

1:46:29last year. And you know, the movie Bridesmaids came up.

1:46:33Yes. So really funny movie.

1:46:35It's 2013. I was like, ah, I want something like, let's watch this comedy.

1:46:38The romantic interest in Bridesmaids, the main guy, you know who his job is?

1:46:43He's a cop. Can you imagine a movie being made now, like a romantic comedy

1:46:49where the main guy is a cop and he's a good guy?

1:46:53Right. You just wouldn't see it.

1:46:55Right. You just wouldn't see it because cops are oppressors.

1:46:58He's a nice agent now.

1:47:02Yeah, man. Do you know Yuri Bezmenov talked about this?

1:47:05Yes. He talked about this.

1:47:07He talked about the fact that when you see in the culture, you know, the

1:47:10military, the cops, the firefighters, all of these people, they're bad.

1:47:13And the criminal is the one that's to be understood and to be, you know,

1:47:17that's how you flip society.

1:47:20Yeah. And that's what we've got.

1:47:21Yeah. That's what we've got.

1:47:22It's the Bezmenov speech from 1984, which is, by the way, such an appropriate date

1:47:27for him to make that.

1:47:28Yeah. But it's so eerie how all of that has actually come to pass.

1:47:34Because back then, nobody took him seriously at all.

1:47:36Right. Right. And it didn't, it wasn't until like the 2020s that people started reviewing

1:47:40that. And then once it got on YouTube, then people were like, oh, this fucking

1:47:45guy nailed it. I think it's YouTube.

1:47:46And also most people want, most people in my experience want to pretend that everything

1:47:53is fine most of the time.

1:47:55So if you come out in 2018, as we did and say, this woke shit

1:48:00is getting out of hand and it's going in a bad direction and it's going

1:48:02to cause a lot of problems.

1:48:04People make you the problem.

1:48:06They say, you're wrong to talk about this.

1:48:08If you talk about grooming gangs, you're bad and evil and whatever.

1:48:11If you talk about free speech and people being arrested for tweets and all of

1:48:16this, people make you the bad guy.

1:48:18And it's only later. Like I remember, I can't even remember who said it, but

1:48:21like I had this, oh no, I remember who said it.

1:48:24One time I was on TV debating with this woman about this stuff and I

1:48:30was saying cancel culture is bad and she was saying it's all bullshit, blah, blah,

1:48:32blah. I met her a few years later and she was like, yeah, I realized

1:48:35cancel culture is bad. And I went, how did you realize?

1:48:37And she went, when my friend started getting canceled.

1:48:40Right. Most people want to pretend most of the time and everything is fine.

1:48:43Yeah. But when they start to see the reality of things and it starts to

1:48:47affect them, that's when they go, ah, maybe this best man off guy had a

1:48:51point. Yeah. I had an argument with a seemingly intelligent person who's a friend of

1:48:55mine when the NSA, when this whole mass spying thing was the Edward Snowden stuff

1:49:02was released. And he was like, like, like you can look at my shit.

1:49:05I'm not doing anything wrong.

1:49:06Like, what do you care?

1:49:07I'm like, oh, that's such a crazy take.

1:49:10Yeah. Who, who, who are, who are these perfect people that are watching over everything?

1:49:16You don't think any of them have either some financial or power based incentive to

1:49:21do certain things or silence certain voices and find out what you're doing or maybe

1:49:27even manipulate you in some sort of a way.

1:49:30Being able to have access to all of your emails, all of your phone calls.

1:49:33Those are just people and all of them are unelected bureaucrats.

1:49:37You, you think that's okay for those people to have access to everything you've ever

1:49:41said? That's crazy. And look, maybe the current government that we have in this place

1:49:47is, you know, would never dream of doing such a thing.

1:49:49And maybe they're entirely honorable and everybody's a great person.

1:49:53And, and you know, they're this unique human being where they don't have any ulterior

1:49:57motives. But what's to say the next government comes in, won't do that and start

1:50:02looking in and going, Hey, you know what?

1:50:04You're causing me problems, Joe Rogan.

1:50:06You're saying a lot of things that I don't actually like.

1:50:08Let's look through your emails.

1:50:09Oh, look, I'll find one from 14 years ago, which is, you know, whatever it

1:50:14may be. Let's get rid of you for that.

1:50:16This was the argument when Obama was pushing the NDAA.

1:50:20Um, it was the, this was the indefinite detention.

1:50:25So this, this concept that you didn't have to charge anybody.

1:50:28You didn't have to, you just have to have it.

1:50:30You don't have to try them within a timely period.

1:50:33Indefinite detention. Well, we'll never use that.

1:50:36Okay. But why are you pushing it then?

1:50:37Right. Well, also who comes after you, man?

1:50:39Like how, how many generations are we away from Hitler?

1:50:42Right. You know, like who fucking, who's to say that this new power won't be

1:50:47used by very unscrupulous people that are not, I mean, the founding fathers of this

1:50:52country really had a good understanding of how corruption and tyranny sets in.

1:50:57And that's why they put all these checks and balances in place.

1:50:59And the more they eroded that, whether it's the Patriot Act, the Patriot Act II,

1:51:03or the NDAA, when you start doing stuff like that, man, you're, you're just undermining

1:51:09the very fabric that this country was created with.

1:51:13It's like we were created under this idea that we know human nature.

1:51:18We know that you cannot have power.

1:51:20We know that the government has to be working for the people.

1:51:24It can't be, we are under the power of these individuals because those individuals will

1:51:29then act like tyrants, which is what people always do when they have power.

1:51:34It's one of the things that makes America really a great place because you, you,

1:51:38we look at the UK now and you know, if Francis is right, and I,

1:51:41I've said this, I think the next election is probably going to be Nigel Farage

1:51:44versus these far leftists. If those far leftists get in power, I mean, they're going

1:51:49to start regulating podcasts. I guarantee you.

1:51:52100%. That's what they're going to do.

1:51:53They're going to say, we have Ofcom for TV.

1:51:56Well, we need to have it for other broadcasting.

1:51:59Surely you'd agree with that.

1:52:00Right. Yeah. And then before you know it, like everything we do.

1:52:03Before you know it, you guys are living in Austin.

1:52:05Right. Right. Because at that point we would actually leave.

1:52:08Yeah. You would have to.

1:52:09You would have to. Because what they would say is, and they would use the

1:52:13word that they always use, which is, you know, they're, they're spreading.

1:52:16Misinformation and hate. Yeah. When the New York Times spreads information, misinformation, that's wonderful.

1:52:22Right. But it's so, yeah, I think allowing people maximum freedom within the system you're

1:52:30talking about is a really, truly precious thing.

1:52:33It's why America, in this respect, is an example to the rest of the world.

1:52:36I think if anything that should be done, they should be able to figure out

1:52:40which of these accounts are bots and eliminate those.

1:52:44Yeah. I do not think that you should be allowed to not just run a

1:52:50bot farm or I don't think you should be allowed to hire people to tweet.

1:52:54I think that's crazy. And I most certainly don't think you should be able to

1:52:57use AI. I mean, that seems crazy.

1:53:00It seems crazy to allow that and pretend that's a person.

1:53:03But think about it like this, Joe.

1:53:05How basically did social media start?

1:53:08Facebook, meta, all the rest of it.

1:53:10It started by a nerd in his bedroom, in his college dorm, who set up

1:53:15a website to rate hot girls on campus.

1:53:19And my point is, like, we're creating all of this technology.

1:53:22We don't know what's going to be the second, third, fifth, sixth order consequences.

1:53:26Right. And we're having to figure it out as we go along.

1:53:29And now we're creating artificial intelligences that are way smarter than us.

1:53:34And you're going, at what point is this going to run away?

1:53:37Right. Or has it already run away?

1:53:39And we just don't want to admit it because most of us don't know enough.

1:53:43And the ones in charge are delusional.

1:53:45Yeah. But you're right, Joe.

1:53:46I think we need a way to know, A, what is human content and what

1:53:50isn't human content. Right. And also, I sometimes look at stuff on social media and

1:53:55I go, there's no fucking way this take got 50 ,000 likes on X.

1:53:59No fucking way. Right, right.

1:54:01You know what I mean?

1:54:02Right. Like, and that is, but that is shaping people's perception of reality.

1:54:07And that is informing political debate.

1:54:09And that is then informing how people vote.

1:54:12And where do those 40 ,000 likes come from?

1:54:15Right. Do they come from within America?

1:54:17Do they come from within Britain?

1:54:19Because what if they didn't?

1:54:21Right. So who is then shaping the political direction of our countries?

1:54:26We need to know that.

1:54:27Yeah, we do need to know that.

1:54:28We need to know that.

1:54:29Because it is effective. Even if someone has a completely preposterous and radical position, a

1:54:36couple steps down from that, that becomes more palatable, right?

1:54:40Yeah. Like, because now it's closer to the, like, the farther left the left goes,

1:54:45the weirder the center gets.

1:54:48Because the center starts accepting things that were far left positions.

1:54:51And same on the right.

1:54:52Same on the right. Same on the right.

1:54:53And you can shift narratives by really, really radical ideologies, really radical thoughts and radical

1:55:02declarations. And you could change, like, what's acceptable.

1:55:06So an example of that is during the Euros, the 2021 final, it was England

1:55:11versus Italy, right? And it was a tight game and it went to penalty shootout.

1:55:16And three black England footballers missed the penalty.

1:55:20And we ended up losing the European Cup to the Italians.

1:55:24And afterwards, these three black footballers got inundated with racism and horrible things.

1:55:30That sparked a conversation in our country about we have a real problem with racism.

1:55:35This is disgraceful that these black footballers are exposed to this level of racism.

1:55:39It's unacceptable. Of course, it is.

1:55:40All those things are true.

1:55:41But basically about them being exposed to racism is not acceptable.

1:55:45And then it went into a discussion about England being a racist country, white supremacist.

1:55:50And this became widespread. And the example of what these footballers were exposed to was

1:55:57used as a way to justify this opinion.

1:56:00And you could see a lot of people accept that opinion until a couple of

1:56:04days later when they investigated where the majority of the tweets came from and messages.

1:56:08And I think something like 85 percent, if not 90, came from outside the UK,

1:56:12if not even more than that.

1:56:13So you're going, oh, so this entire conversation that we have had about white supremacy,

1:56:19about, you know, black people not being accepted in our country, about the fact there's

1:56:25second class citizens. And look, this example of them being exposed to this horrendous racism,

1:56:29when the fact is the majority of it came from outside the UK.

1:56:32And then you have to ask the question, who benefits?

1:56:35Right. Who benefits from us hating each other, obsessing about our differences, worrying about how

1:56:42we're the most racist places in the world, when this narrative is likely being driven

1:56:47by actually racist countries? Right, right, right, right.

1:56:52Because that's what's happening. Yes.

1:56:53And we are allowing it to happen.

1:56:55And I think we just haven't woken up to the fact that we are living

1:56:58in the age of informational warfare.

1:57:00And we, because of our belief in freedom, have just got lost in this fact

1:57:06that we are under attack.

1:57:08It's a very good point.

1:57:09I have to pee. We'll come back with that.

1:57:11Awesome. Let's do that. I'll go pee as well.

1:57:13So, speaking of religion, so show us this Sam Tripoli Facebook take.

1:57:18He was on Danny Jones, and this is what he said about Facebook.

1:57:27Damn it. Volume. Now there's a little muted here.

1:57:30Yeah. It's a giant lie.

1:57:32It's a propaganda piece. That was a Pentagon program called LifeLog.

1:57:37LifeLog is a Pentagon program that wants to collect all your data for your whole

1:57:43life. What day did the government stop the LifeLog project?

1:57:48Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.

1:57:49DARPA shut down the LifeLog project February 4th, 2004.

1:57:55What day was Facebook registered as a business?

1:57:58Oh, my God. No way, bro.

1:58:02The exact same day. They don't even hide it, dude.

1:58:05It was created by DARPA.

1:58:06Yeah. They handed it to Mark Zuckerberg, and then the Vossel twins.

1:58:10What about the other? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1:58:11That's all. And that's why they became the first Bitcoin millionaires, because they play ball.

1:58:17Oh, my God. It's all theater, dude.

1:58:20So, what is the purpose of LifeLog?

1:58:22To collect all your data for your whole entire life.

1:58:26Okay. Take this with many grains of salt.

1:58:30Oh, my God. Oh, my God.

1:58:30Oh, my God. Sam is one of my best friends.

1:58:32I've known him for decades.

1:58:34He's a wonderful person, but he's a kook.

1:58:37But he's right a lot.

1:58:38I don't know if he's right about this.

1:58:41Jamie thinks he's right? It's not that he's incorrect, I would say that.

1:58:47He's making some connections. Well, he's definitely right about the dates, and that is a

1:58:53little weird. That it's ended on the same day where Facebook is beginning.

1:58:58A little weird. Yeah. You know.

1:59:02What do you think the appeal is of, like...

1:59:04When I went down this rabbit hole here, it said it was made by the

1:59:08Information Processing Techniques Office of the CIA, I think, or something.

1:59:13But here's some other fun projects that are associated with this.

1:59:18Biologically Inspired Cognitive Architectures? Wait, what?

1:59:22Yep, there's just a couple.

1:59:23Biologically Inspired Cognitive Architectures. That sounds like artificial intelligence.

1:59:28Yeah. Bootstrapping Learning. What was the other one, Jamie?

1:59:32This Forrester thing? Forrester, a program to develop helicopter -borne radar system that can detect

1:59:38soldiers and vehicles moving underneath foliage cover.

1:59:42Whoa. Deep green. U .S.

1:59:45Army Battlefield Decision -Making Support System.

1:59:47Yeah, this is all AI.

1:59:48Heterogeneous Urban RST -8. So they were planning on this in the...

1:59:53This was 2004 is when that thing ended, the LifeLog thing.

1:59:57So, I mean, it even goes back to says they were working on ARPANET back

2:00:00in the 60s. Whoa. Just beginning of the internet.

2:00:04By the way, Joe, have you had anyone on to talk about this weapon that

2:00:07the U .S. forces used in Venezuela?

2:00:10No. No, I haven't. Not yet.

2:00:12But there was something like...

2:00:13Yeah. They used something, right?

2:00:15Yes. Supposedly. That makes your brain water temperature rise, and so you get nosebleeds and

2:00:21shit. Is that what it is?

2:00:22Well, my cousin told me when I was talking after the attack...

2:00:26Your cousin in Venezuela. My cousin in Venezuela, yeah, yeah.

2:00:29He was saying that it seemed like in a one -mile radius, everybody's windows got

2:00:33blown out. Well, that's just blast.

2:00:35That's not like... But what I heard was that they had some kind of weapon

2:00:39that... Some sonic weapon. I don't know if it was sonic, maybe, but something that

2:00:43incapacitates people and makes them very uncomfortable, basically, but without killing them.

2:00:49Was it 60 Minutes? Yeah.

2:00:51Yeah. So 60 Minutes said that these guys acquired some weapon from Russian black market,

2:00:58and it's a very small, portable weapon that you can carry around with you and

2:01:03does something very similar. What is their claim on this?

2:01:07Oh, well, there's two different things going on with the 60 Minutes thing.

2:01:11They had a story a couple months ago where they were tracking a guy, and

2:01:14then they just had an update, I think, over the weekend that added to it.

2:01:18But what is the claim?

2:01:19Oh, I think they found the guy that said he was doing it, I believe.

2:01:23Right. He had a device in his car or something like that.

2:01:25And you could just point it at people, but you could carry it around.

2:01:28Yeah, that is where it gets strange.

2:01:30I mean, the 60 Minutes thing from yesterday going around, I didn't watch it, so

2:01:33I don't know what they're talking about.

2:01:34Oh, the Havana Syndrome. Yes.

2:01:35Yeah, but it has to do with that, and that's what I was trying to,

2:01:38Trump had this discombobulator weapon.

2:01:39Right, right, that's what I'm talking about.

2:01:42Discombobulator. It's the most Trump name for it, isn't it?

2:01:44It's kind of the description of what the Havana Syndrome weapon is.

2:01:46Yes. The discombobulator. But it seems like whatever its effectiveness is, the Havana Syndrome is

2:01:51very small in comparison to what these things are doing.

2:01:54These things are like completely incapacitating people.

2:01:56Right. You know, I don't think people talk about this enough.

2:01:59You know when they came in to take Maduro?

2:02:01You know what they also did?

2:02:03I mean, you probably know this.

2:02:04They fired a rocket into Chavez's mausoleum.

2:02:08They did? Yeah. Just to be like, go fuck your mum.

2:02:11Wow. I'm going to bump in your grave.

2:02:14Wow. Isn't that the most Trump thing ever?

2:02:16You know how much those things cost?

2:02:18Yeah. Oh, yeah. Millions of dollars.

2:02:20Millions. So, millions just to say fuck you?

2:02:22Yeah. She fired a rocket into his grave.

2:02:25Yeah. This is the American way, baby.

2:02:29We're going to fire some expensive shit.

2:02:32That's crazy. In your grave.

2:02:33That's crazy. But under any other president, you would have gone, that's bullshit.

2:02:37Right. But under Trump, you're like, yeah, of course.

2:02:39You think it was his idea?

2:02:40Yes. Yeah. Yeah. I've got a thought.

2:02:48That sounds exactly like a Trump idea.

2:02:51So, this weapon that, what is the details?

2:02:54I don't know. We can just watch this.

2:02:55Yeah. Let's see what he says here.

2:02:57Well, we could just read.

2:02:58Okay. I couldn't read it.

2:02:58Go ahead. Okay. Let's play it.

2:02:59Let's play it. Here it goes.

2:03:03...of a classified microwave weapon...

2:03:05Right. ...that may explain mysterious brain injuries suffered by U .S.

2:03:10officials. We've been investigating these injuries for nine years, and now our sources tell us

2:03:17this microwave weapon is portable, concealable, and uses relatively little power.

2:03:24Hundreds of possible attacks have been reported, including, we've learned, at CIA headquarters in Virginia,

2:03:32and at least two incidents on the grounds of the White House.

2:03:37For years, the government doubted the stories of the injured, but now the victims, including

2:03:43former CIA officer Mark Polymeropoulos, hope that word of a newly discovered weapon will finally

2:03:51vindicate them. There's a part of this, Scott, that has to do with moral injury,

2:03:56and that's the idea of betrayal.

2:03:58You know, I worked for 26 years for the CIA.

2:04:00I think I was involved in every covert action program in the Middle East.

2:04:04I did some very interesting things for the U .S.

2:04:06government, always with the idea that they would have my back if I got jammed

2:04:09up. I just needed to get medical care when I came back, and they wouldn't

2:04:12even do that. So this moral injury, this sense of betrayal, is so acute with

2:04:17me. That's something that I can never forget them for.

2:04:20Mark Polymeropoulos rose to an executive level at the CIA, about the equivalent of a

2:04:27three -star general. He was awarded a top decoration for service.

2:04:33Sixty Minutes has learned to take...

2:04:35Not much about the weapon there, unfortunately.

2:04:41But it's interesting that the way that they did that, they...

2:04:45did that operation because when i was talking to my cousins and my friends about

2:04:49what happened no one in venezuela had a clue and they were my friend said

2:04:53that he was woken up around two in the morning by a plane going overhead

2:04:59and there's a no fly zone around over caracas at that time especially and he

2:05:04was like what is this and he said you heard this almighty boom and everybody

2:05:11was just nobody knew what was happening they don't have x in venezuela for obvious

2:05:16reasons so everybody was in the dark and it was only via instagram and facebook

2:05:21that they started to understand what had just gone on but it was complete disbelief

2:05:26that the americans had done that if they uh they don't have uh x do

2:05:30they have threads uh then which is like i imagine zero yeah x zero yeah

2:05:37i imagine they must do but he said the way that everybody was communicating was

2:05:40via instagram interesting what are people saying now in venezuela so and now i talked

2:05:45to my friends he said that things are getting better he said things are getting

2:05:49better he said the crime was down 75 i mean i don't know how true

2:05:54this is he said things are slowly starting to get liberalized he also the i

2:05:58was talking to a colombian friend of mine who was saying that people venezuelans in

2:06:02colombia are now starting to go back because whilst the regime is still obviously not

2:06:08perfect what you essentially have is a puppet regime and they know that the moment

2:06:14they step out of line they know the moment they to use trump's parlance fuck

2:06:17about something will happen they're kept in they they're kept they're kept in on a

2:06:23straight line yeah they have to behave they can't do what maduro did and what's

2:06:28interesting about when maduro was captured is nobody really mentioned that much about his wife

2:06:34but a lot of people say that his wife was the brains behind the operation

2:06:39because maduro there's clips of him that went viral on tiktok and instagram and on

2:06:45twitter as well where he was doing speeches and he had to do basic mental

2:06:49arithmetic and he couldn't do it this guy was a bus driver he was picked

2:06:53by chavez when chavez was on his deathbed in 2013 dying from stomach cancer and

2:06:58he appointed maduro everybody was shocked because they were saying well maduro wasn't the most

2:07:04capable he wasn't the most intelligent but what maduro was is he was the most

2:07:08loyal out of all chavez's underlings so he was picked not for his brilliance not

2:07:14for his sharpness but because he was a company man and actually the the person

2:07:19who the venezuelans hated the most was his wife because she was the brains behind

2:07:23the operation she was the one in charge of the kidnappings the tortures the murders

2:07:29so when she was kidnapped people were happier that she was on the helicopter than

2:07:34maduro himself really yeah lady macbeth she was way more cruel than maduro wow way

2:07:45more cool it's interesting you say things are getting better now because it's like it's

2:07:49short term right we don't know right yeah you know some some this has happened

2:07:54a lot of times in latin america right like people get overthrown things are getting

2:07:59better and then some shit happens yeah not the most stable place not the most

2:08:04stable people joe i'm gonna be honest with you they're my people it's either you

2:08:08know uh it's either fascismo or viva la revolución yeah and you're like guys can

2:08:13we have a little middle and they're like no viva la revolución you know they're

2:08:17they you know they're excitable people and you also wonder how much the fact that

2:08:21venezuela in particular it's so resource rich a lot of well like a lot of

2:08:24francis always says to me like you know it could be a really great country

2:08:27really wealthy and i go i don't know that having those resources makes a country

2:08:31better because what you get is a corrupt elite who are fighting for control of

2:08:36these resources that are so easy to get like in 1990s russia when the soviet

2:08:40union collapsed the people who took over all the resource companies the oil companies the

2:08:45gas companies where like russia is basically all it is is a is a in

2:08:50terms of its economies digging shit out of the ground and selling it that's what

2:08:53it is and the poetry yeah not a lot of money to be made in

2:08:56poetry right but the people who took over those companies they weren't people who knew

2:09:01anything about the oil business they weren't people who knew anything about the gas business

2:09:05because all you really had to do is take over and then you just let

2:09:09western companies come in and do the drilling and the oil field services and all

2:09:13of it for you so these countries which are so resource rich it actually makes

2:09:18them more corrupt and more unstable the the resource wealth they have doesn't actually make

2:09:24them better for the people because the corrupt elites fight over those resources and that's

2:09:29where you get the bullshit that you get and the it's true so venezuela before

2:09:34chavez came to power was 98 dependent on oil the economy the entire economy was

2:09:4098 dependent on oil the slight difference with venezuela is when we were taking over

2:09:45by chavez he then installed his cronies in charge of pedevesa which is the the

2:09:51venezuelan oil company and he cut out all the people who were competent all the

2:09:57people who were who would criticize him ideologically and as a result what you had

2:10:02is fundamentally incompetent people at the top which meant that it became degraded it was

2:10:07no longer able to pump the oil it wasn't reliable so that's a large part

2:10:12of the reason why the economy collapsed is it was entirely dependent on oil they

2:10:17appointed their cronies who couldn't actually do the job the oil industry failed and we

2:10:22descended into poverty and chaos how much do you know about brazil not a lot

2:10:28why well i've always that situation is very confusing right lula goes to jail now

2:10:36he's out he's running the country and they jailed jair bolsonaro right like there's and

2:10:43then they tried to ban x like then they did for a while right i

2:10:48think so and they had to make probably some concessions i don't know a lot

2:10:53about it truthfully joe yeah yeah i do we're gonna do that thing that no

2:10:57one does on the internet is admit we don't know something as long as we

2:10:59know hot takes these are kind of just kind of crazy descriptions of this weapon

2:11:05this is from this longer version of the CBS News 60 Minutes article where they're

2:11:10talking to that guy we just saw mm -hmm I would say start right around

2:11:13here and then I'll skip to another paragraph because three independent sources from different agencies

2:11:18tell us undercover homeland security agents purchased a miniaturized microwave weapon from a complex Russian

2:11:23criminal network it's classified we didn't see it but it has been described to us

2:11:28we're told it doesn't look anything like a gun it's designed to be concealed and

2:11:32small enough to be carried by a person it is silent and doesn't create heat

2:11:36like a microwave oven our sources say the device is programmable for different scenarios and

2:11:41could be operated by remote control the range of the beam is several hundred feet

2:11:45it can penetrate windows and drywall the vital components were made in Russia our sources

2:11:50say the key is not the hardware but the software the programming shapes a unique

2:11:54electromagnetic wave that rises and falls abruptly and pulses rapidly so then it turns out

2:12:00they have tested this apparently in US military labs start our confidential sources tell still

2:12:07classified weapon has been tested in a US military lab for more than a year

2:12:12tests on rats and sheep show injuries consistent with those seen in humans also as

2:12:17a separate part of the investigation security camera videos have been collected that show Americans

2:12:22being hit the videos are classified but they were described to us in one a

2:12:27camera in a restaurant in Istanbul captured two FBI agents on vacation sitting at a

2:12:33table with their families a man with a backpack walks in and suddenly everyone at

2:12:37the table grabs their head as if in pain our sources say that another video

2:12:41comes from a stairwell in the US Embassy in Vienna the stairs lead to a

2:12:46secure facility in the video two people on the stairs suddenly collapse those videos and

2:12:52the weapon were among the reasons the Biden administration summoned about half a dozen victims

2:12:56to the White House with about two months left in the president's term and then

2:13:00that guy was also one of the people in there the ads are kind of

2:13:04fucking up this website but yeah he just sort of said someone admitted to him

2:13:09that they treated him poorly yeah that's the biggest cover -up I've seen in my

2:13:13adult life a CIS interesting I don't get the like the board if Russia has

2:13:20this weapon why didn't they use it to take out Zelensky well it seems like

2:13:23it's only for a hundred couple hundred feet that's what they're just saying like it

2:13:27has to be close right so what what was the one they used in Venezuela

2:13:30then it was in a truck it was truck size but then that's where it

2:13:34goes I started you just past that where they said it's actually way smaller interesting

2:13:39so this is the one that's that you could carry around but do we know

2:13:43that that's the same one they use in Venezuela or do they use something that's

2:13:46completely different technology yeah we the reality is we just don't know I mean the

2:13:50interesting thing as well with Venezuela is like Maduro is so retarded he's such a

2:13:57hot take how retarded is he he literally is the joke set up punchline yeah

2:14:07he but he literally said to Trump he said to America I'm not gonna do

2:14:11what you say go fuck yourself come and get me yeah he did that yeah

2:14:15that was cocaine and it's not just that he so for instance the country next

2:14:24to Venezuela is called Guyana and in Guyana they recently discovered oil a really huge

2:14:30large deposits of oil and there's been Guyana is a British former British colony and

2:14:36Venezuela and Guyana have always been disputes about territory about one particular part of I

2:14:42think it's called Escaibo is which is basically rainforest rainforest and they always argued about

2:14:47it but no one cared until they discovered oil there at which point Maduro went

2:14:53you know what you know how we've been talking about this turns out it is

2:14:58Venezuelan they did a referendum in Venezuela where you basically asked a people who were

2:15:04entirely subjugated starving living in misery and poverty whether they wanted to start a war

2:15:11with Guyana do you know how many Venezuelans voted for it 92 % 92 %

2:15:17of Venezuelans wanted to go to war despite the fact they didn't have the strength

2:15:20to even pick up a gun because they're so malnourished and then he started teaching

2:15:25in schools redrawing the map of Venezuela so all the school kids now think the

2:15:31Venezuela incorporates this territory like he was antagonizing the Americans and their allies consistently and

2:15:40unlike Iran he doesn't have the infrastructure he doesn't have that amount of the military

2:15:47the power the organization he made himself so vulnerable so vulnerable who looks at Trump

2:15:54and goes yeah let's fuck with that guy right he's 80 he doesn't have much

2:15:59to lose right last term that's the scary thing about old leaders it's like death

2:16:05is imminent it's within a decade if you're lucky that's spooky that's spooky like you

2:16:12know you're making decisions for babies and children and the future of the world and

2:16:17you've only got 10 maybe 10 years left on on earth if everything goes great

2:16:22and also you start to degrade oh yeah your cognitive functions it doesn't I'm not

2:16:27saying that he's got dementia or anything like that but you're just not as sharp

2:16:30when you're that age as you are when you're younger he is I mean he's

2:16:34kind of weird like when I think about how much Barack Obama aged yeah how

2:16:39much Tony Blair aged Trump has not aged like that yeah and he is a

2:16:45terrible diet I mean especially when he's on the road he just eats junk food

2:16:48because he says it's like JFK or RFK Junior rather told me he's he eats

2:16:54junk food because he knows that when he eats fast food that it's not gonna

2:16:57be poison like he knows he can eat it and not worry about getting food

2:17:01poisoning what what what exactly like any fucking sense well it does because it's filled

2:17:08with preservatives so you're not gonna get food poisoning from a Big Mac was the

2:17:11last time you heard about anybody getting food poisoning from a big Right Fucking never

2:17:17happens because nothing can grow on those things Really like for real like you've seen

2:17:22them. They take like a Decades decades decades they don't rot.

2:17:28There's so much preservatives in the bread and whatever the meat is Fucking made with

2:17:32and but but this is my point is like Trump hasn't aged like much younger

2:17:37men Which is even crazier.

2:17:38I just you consider he doesn't exercise right and it's been under colossal Yeah, I

2:17:43mean, I don't know but I imagine he's been under a bit of pressure and

2:17:46stress well Assassination attempts. Yeah, and just all that almost going to jail.

2:17:50Yeah, right like thirty -four felonies sort of trumped up You know pardon the pun

2:17:55against him. Yeah Yeah, there's a Russian agent and all this Yeah, yeah, yeah, and

2:18:01it's just like I It's kind of like it's kind of impressive in a way.

2:18:05Oh that part's very impressive.

2:18:07Yeah, yeah, and he's funny Like he's always joking around about that stuff.

2:18:11Yeah, it's like he's very light -hearted about it all Yeah, he is like when

2:18:14he was talking about the iranian navy.

2:18:16Did you see that he was like they've lost 14 ships We sunk a submarine

2:18:20did this but apart from that they're doing really well He's very relaxed for a

2:18:28man in that like it's hard to imagine I cannot imagine being in charge of

2:18:32anything Like eight eight a thousandth of that size right just imagine the stress that

2:18:38you guys have running trigonometry, right?

2:18:39Yeah, right right stressful. I'm sure francis is aged like barack obama Now I just

2:18:48look like an aging lesbian.

2:18:49It is stressful, right? Yeah, and that is the highest stress that I can ever

2:18:55imagine I I can't imagine a level higher You know, I always remember uh after

2:19:00the war in iraq and blair was still in power, but it was towards the

2:19:04end I was watching the news with my dad And this woman in her 50s

2:19:11came along And she put a wreath at this At the door of 10 downing

2:19:17street And that was a mother whose son had died in iraq And placed a

2:19:23wreath at 10 downing street of all the soldiers that died I'm like even if

2:19:29the war was justified even if it was the right thing to do which I

2:19:33don't think it was I would still find it impossible to sleep right now Just

2:19:38imagine it was the colossal fuck up that that war was right And those people

2:19:42died as a result of your decision, but how do you Unless you're a sociopath.

2:19:48I I think that's an you can't can you live with that?

2:19:51Right I I don't think you I think it's impossible to live with but clearly

2:19:57not I mean, we've got People who were heavily responsible for promoting that war in

2:20:03the uk now Like alistair campbell He was the spin doctor that helped blair lie

2:20:09the country into the war in iraq He now has a really big podcast and

2:20:13like all the young people are all right.

2:20:14Tell me more No way.

2:20:16Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah Yes, he's the rush limbo of the uk Uh, how do

2:20:22you mean so? I don't know enough about rush limbo I've heard in the name,

2:20:25but I can't I don't get the reference in the way that you mean it

2:20:27He was the big right wing propagandist on radio excellence in broadcasting Oh, by the

2:20:35way, have you seen the um The memes that think that rush limbo is actually

2:20:40jim morrison Yeah, yeah, and if you look at his facial features in comparison jim

2:20:45morrison's facial features, they're almost identical It's kind of nuts They do like a scan

2:20:50where they like like superimpose So rush limbo is a media guy alistair campbell.

2:20:55He was working for tony blair right But yeah, yeah, and all the young people

2:21:01are all really well There was a lot of like young men in particular that

2:21:04like really into rush limbo and right like that Like a lot of people were

2:21:07crediting him with turning young people towards a right -wing direction This was during the

2:21:13obama administration um like Watch watch when they grow over Pretty close it's like alex

2:21:23jones and bill hicks have you seen that that one's ridiculous Yeah, I met both

2:21:28of them. They don't look anything like each other Look at this.

2:21:30Look at that. That is kind of crazy.

2:21:33Wow It's pretty close Wow Well, you know the there's the other crazy conspiracy theory

2:21:44involving the counter cultural move counterculture movement of the 1960s with the cia There's a

2:21:51book on strange times in laurel canyon.

2:21:53The book's nuts Like you realize like how many of these very popular Counterculture figures

2:21:59had families that were in the military.

2:22:01Yeah, like high level military intelligence officers including morrison Oh, yeah morrison's dad was so

2:22:06very senior in the military.

2:22:07Yeah Yeah, and a bunch of other people that were also involved In you know

2:22:12the the whole laurel canyon rock scene and that it was Somehow or another it

2:22:18at least promoted by intelligence agencies if not Formulated and by counterculture you mean like

2:22:24what like hippies. Yep. Yeah.

2:22:26Yeah. Yeah. So the hippie movement was promoted by intelligence.

2:22:30Yeah Well, why that's good question.

2:22:33Well, we know Without saying definitively, but pretty close based on Tom o 'neil's book

2:22:40chaos that they were absolutely involved in the manson family So with the reason for

2:22:45them being involved the manson family is say you have this new culture That's arising

2:22:50that doesn't embrace materialism make love not war you got all these people, you know

2:22:54Drop out tune in like Timothy leary.

2:22:58Yeah, the timothy mc the timothy leary people the the the people that are Want

2:23:04to do acid and you just want to reimagine society.

2:23:07So this is a radical change That's a radical change from the 1950s to the

2:23:111960s. It's pretty crazy So what do you do to stop that?

2:23:14Well, what you do is you find a guy who's very charismatic who is a

2:23:18sociopath who's in prison And you find that guy and teach him how to be

2:23:23a cult leader and then you give him acid And you show him how to

2:23:26administer acid and how to not take it and have all of his followers take

2:23:30it and then direct their thoughts and then eventually program them like MKUltra style to

2:23:36commit murders. So they have to take LaBianca murders.

2:23:38They have a bunch of other stuff that they did before that.

2:23:41He's gotten arrested multiple times.

2:23:43Every time he gets arrested, they let him go.

2:23:45And when they let him go, like one of the sheriff says, I was told

2:23:48it was above my pay grade.

2:23:50So you're letting a guy go who's a violent criminal, who's violating parole, who's a

2:23:54lifelong con man. And now he is running this cult.

2:23:58And this cult is murderous.

2:23:59So the Tate LaBianca murders, the Manson family murders, all that stuff becomes public.

2:24:04There's the hearings, the trials, the whole thing.

2:24:06So the entire public narrative changes on what a hippie is.

2:24:09Now hippies are dangerous. So before hippies were like, we're nonviolent.

2:24:14We want love. We have flowers.

2:24:16And now it's like, oh, these fucking people will cut your baby out and write

2:24:20pig on the wall with your blood.

2:24:23You know, is the Altamont concert connected to that?

2:24:26Excuse me. The Altamont concert.

2:24:28You know, you know, the Rolling Stones concert.

2:24:30Oh, that was the that was the Hell's Angels.

2:24:33Yes. Yeah. Yeah. And that was kind of seen.

2:24:36I don't know. It's just a question I'm asking, like, because that was seen as

2:24:38the end of the hippie movement, wasn't it?

2:24:40That was the death. That was the final death rattle, the hippie.

2:24:44Was it? That was how it was.

2:24:45That's how it was written and portrayed.

2:24:47Well, that's odd because the Hell's Angels are not hippies.

2:24:50And having Hell's Angels as security is a wild move.

2:24:53Yeah. Yeah. That's crazy. Yeah.

2:24:56Because it was a Rolling Stones concert.

2:24:58But in because it was a free concert, wasn't it?

2:25:01That was a thing. How did they go about hiring?

2:25:04See if you can find the history on that.

2:25:06They go about hiring the Hell's Angels.

2:25:10Yeah. Both previously used the Angels for security at performances without incident.

2:25:16Grateful Dead and Jefferson airplane.

2:25:18This is also the next sentence says it was denied.

2:25:21So I don't know. Right.

2:25:22But that's what it says in the Wikipedia here.

2:25:26It says for $500 worth of beer.

2:25:29That's all they had to pay them.

2:25:29The story was denied by some parties who were directly involved.

2:25:33According to the road manager of the Rolling Stones, 1969 U .S.

2:25:36tour, Sam Cutler, the only agreement there ever was, the Angels would make sure that

2:25:40nobody tampered with the generators.

2:25:42And that was the extent of it.

2:25:43But there was no way they're going to be the police force or anything like

2:25:48that. That's all bollocks. The deal was made at a meeting, including Cutler, Grateful Dead

2:25:53manager, Rock Scully, and Pete Nell, member of the Hell's Angels San Francisco chapter.

2:25:58According to Cutler, the arrangement was that all the bands were supposed to share the

2:26:03$500 beer cost. But the person who paid it was me, and I never got

2:26:07it back to this day.

2:26:10Okay. So the Hell's Angels guy says, we don't police things.

2:26:15We're not a security force.

2:26:16We go to concerts and enjoy ourselves and have fun.

2:26:18Well, what about helping people out, you know, giving directions and things?

2:26:21He says, sure, we can do that.

2:26:23How they would be paid.

2:26:24He said, we like beer.

2:26:26In the documentary, Gimme Shelter, Sonny Barger, the guy that was the head of the

2:26:30Hell's Angels, stated that the Hell's Angels were not interested in policing the event, and

2:26:35that organizers had told them the Angels would not be required to do, or would

2:26:39be required, rather, to do little more than sit on the edge of the stage,

2:26:42drink beer, and make sure there weren't any murders or rapes occurring.

2:26:49The only reason I said that is because that was kind of one of the

2:26:53events that was heralded to be the end of the hippie movement.

2:26:57Right. So what happened? They stabbed people?

2:27:00Something happened? I think it was a free concert that the Rolling Stones and these

2:27:04bands put on, and then it degenerated, and then a riot broke out, and then

2:27:09the Hell's Angels, who was obviously not trained security, then went on the rampage.

2:27:15And how many people died?

2:27:17That I don't know. Does it say here, Jamie?

2:27:21Situation, tear, it's killing. A woman got killed?

2:27:26Yeah. Yeah, it says. 22 caliber, jacket, withdrawal, revolver, drew a knife, stabbed him 16

2:27:36times in the head, neck, and back.

2:27:38Whoa. That's a lot of stabbing.

2:27:45So it says, concealing the remaining 14 stabbings?

2:27:48What? He said he was high on meth when he died.

2:27:55Oh, boy. Quitted after jury, reviewed the concert footage.

2:28:00Rolling Stones were aware of the skirmish, but not the stabbing.

2:28:03Couldn't see anything. It's just another scuffle.

2:28:05Jagger tells David, males -less during film editing.

2:28:12It soon became apparent they could see something of what happened because the band stopped

2:28:15playing mid -song, and Jagger was heard calling into his microphone.

2:28:19Really got someone hurt here.

2:28:20Is there a doctor? After a few minutes, the band began playing again and eventually

2:28:24completed their set. They had to get paid.

2:28:27And the band of the show at one point was to say, Altamont became, whether

2:28:32fairly or not, a symbol for the death of the Woodstock nation.

2:28:40Interesting. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, it seems like if you're going to have concerts, especially

2:28:47you're going to have free concerts, and you're going to be using Hell's Angels as

2:28:52a deterrent, you know, things could definitely go sideways.

2:28:55Yeah. Definitely. And maybe they just got lucky before when they did it for Jefferson

2:29:00Airplane and the Grateful Dead.

2:29:02Yeah. Joe, not to change the subject, but have you been following this beef between

2:29:07Eddie Hearn and Dana White?

2:29:08A little bit. Because it's kind of interesting to me, because boxing seems to be,

2:29:11like, changing, right? Because of what Zufa boxing is doing.

2:29:15Is that something you're, like, excited about, the possibility of the boxing, which has been

2:29:20in, you know, there's so much bullshit going on, and you so very rarely see

2:29:25the best fighters fighting each other, that that might change?

2:29:29Well, the beef with those two, I don't know the root of it.

2:29:33I think it's essentially that, you know, it's competition.

2:29:36Like, Dana's now entering into the MMA space.

2:29:39Into the boxing space. Excuse me, the boxing space.

2:29:41And I was going to say Eddie Hearn has now entered.

2:29:43into the MMA space, because now he's a manager of Tom Aspinall, which is very

2:29:48interesting. Anything that gets fighters more money, I'm for.

2:29:53And more attention, more money, more different promoters, more people competing to give people higher

2:29:58purses. The real problem is with MMA, there's nothing.

2:30:02I mean, there's essentially the UFC and everything else is a distant second.

2:30:07And it's a distant second in terms of attention.

2:30:11In some places, it's not a distant second in terms of revenue, right?

2:30:17So like the PFL, for instance, the PFL was offering a million dollars for anybody

2:30:22who could win these tournaments.

2:30:24And the caliber of fighters that were winning this tournament were not the same caliber

2:30:29as UFC champions. And then some of the people that were competing in the UFC

2:30:33were not making as much money as these people that had left the UFC because

2:30:36they really weren't able to beat the best guys.

2:30:40They went over there and they made a million dollars.

2:30:43I think that's good for fighters.

2:30:45It's not good for really talented guys that really want to be the UFC champion

2:30:51because you can languish over there for a long time.

2:30:54And there's some good examples of guys who spent four, five, six years over there

2:30:58that really had potential to be a world champion.

2:31:01And they are, you know, in quotes, a world champion over there.

2:31:04But ask the average person on the street who they are, no one knows.

2:31:08Ask them who Alex Pereira is, everybody knows.

2:31:11The thing is, those guys, if they're doing that and they're getting paid more, you

2:31:16have to make a decision.

2:31:17Like, are you willing to take more money now in this organization versus the potential

2:31:24of much more fame, sponsors, and maybe less money initially in the UFC?

2:31:30But if you can be a champion, that's really what every fighter wants to be.

2:31:34Because if you spend five, six years in an organization, the reality is your prime

2:31:40is about five, six years.

2:31:42You can look at the elite of the elite guys, Anderson Silva in his prime.

2:31:46It's about five, six years.

2:31:47Fedor Emelianenko in his prime.

2:31:49It's about five, six years.

2:31:50So you could burn out your prime in an organization where you're not getting as

2:31:56much talent, not getting as much recognition.

2:31:59So it depends on what you're doing it for.

2:32:01If you're purely a prize fighter and you want to fight for the highest bidder,

2:32:04the difference between MMA and the UFC is you can do that in boxing.

2:32:08So in boxing, people go to see the fighter.

2:32:12You know, Terrence Crawford is fighting Canelo Alvarez.

2:32:14My mom could be the promoter.

2:32:16Nobody gives a shit. They want to see that fight.

2:32:18And you put that fight on pay -per -view, it's going to sell.

2:32:21You put it on DAZN, you put it on Netflix, it's going to sell.

2:32:24Now, in MMA, that's not necessarily the case.

2:32:28The interesting challenge to that is this Netflix thing.

2:32:32So with Ronda Rousey versus Gina Carano, even though Gina Carano hasn't fought since the

2:32:382000s, I don't remember what year was the last time she fought.

2:32:43I want to make a guess.

2:32:45Let me guess. I want to say 2007, 2008.

2:32:49When was the last time Gina Carano fought?

2:32:52And she's 43. And I think Ronda's 39.

2:32:56But Ronda's so famous and people are so interested.

2:32:59And if it's on Netflix and people already have Netflix, I guarantee you, you'll get

2:33:03millions of people that will watch that.

2:33:05So that'll be good. Right?

2:33:06And that's good for the fighters.

2:33:07And I know they offered some fighters that I know a very large purse to

2:33:11compete on that card. Well, Francis Ngannou might be one, right?

2:33:14He might be. Yeah, there's talk of that.

2:33:16No, actually, I think that's been confirmed.

2:33:20I think he's fighting Philip Lins.

2:33:232009. Okay. So that was the last time she fought.

2:33:26Chris Cyborg was a beast.

2:33:28Yeah. There was a lot of supplements involved in that.

2:33:32There was a lot going on with her.

2:33:33I mean, that was the Wild West of testing.

2:33:35And she looked freak. Yeah.

2:33:38The eye test was kind of...

2:33:39Yeah. The eye test was 100%.

2:33:42But it'll still be exciting.

2:33:45People will, you know, and hopefully they've had enough time.

2:33:48I know there's a lot of video footage of Ronda training for quite a while.

2:33:51She lost a lot of weight.

2:33:53She got really slim. She looks fit.

2:33:55You know, she looks outstanding, especially with her grappling.

2:33:58She's doing a lot of judo throws and arm bars.

2:34:00And she's lost a step.

2:34:03There's a difference between that and competition.

2:34:05There's ring rust. There's a lot of factors.

2:34:07Gina Carano was a legit Muay Thai champion.

2:34:09She's got real power. And she was a very good striker when she was young.

2:34:13She was a very technical, solid striker when she was young.

2:34:18How long has it been since she, you know...

2:34:21Well, I mean, how long did she stop training for?

2:34:23Right? She did movies. She's done The Mandalorian.

2:34:27She's had a lot of success acting.

2:34:29But it seems like there was probably quite a bit of time.

2:34:32She lost a ton of weight, too.

2:34:33Look. And she looks quite a bit bigger than Ronda.

2:34:36Those are two attractive ladies, if I must say so.

2:34:39Yep. And Jake Paul is in the middle.

2:34:42Yeah. Ronda looks very angry.

2:34:43He looks kind of awkward there, Jake, to be honest.

2:34:49You know, when it comes to grappling, you give Ronda a big advantage.

2:34:53She's one of the best submission artists ever, period.

2:34:55You know, her arm bar is about as good as it gets.

2:34:57She's got fantastic judo, bronze medalists in the Olympics.

2:35:01But when it comes to Gina, Gina was a solid striker when she was young.

2:35:05And the difference in striking would definitely benefit Gina.

2:35:09You would have to lean in her direction.

2:35:10But again, when you're talking about, like, 2009, it's a long time, man.

2:35:1517 years? It's a long time to not compete.

2:35:19Well, there do seem to be a lot of fights nowadays in various disciplines happening

2:35:23where it's like you're not seeing people at their prime.

2:35:25You're maybe sometimes seeing people who aren't professionals.

2:35:29Right. But are famous. And there seems to be a lot of money to be

2:35:32made doing that. Yeah. As long as you match them correctly.

2:35:35Right? Yeah. That was the thing that was wild with Jake Paul versus Anthony Joshua.

2:35:40Uh -huh. Jake Paul is a cruiserweight.

2:35:42And you've got Joshua, who is heavy for the heavyweight division.

2:35:46You looked at the size matchup between the two.

2:35:50And at one point, I was like, he's going to kill him.

2:35:53Well, he did. I mean, I think Jake probably knew it going in.

2:35:57And just, I think. I think.

2:35:57His game plan was just to move a lot, you know, and he did a

2:36:00lot of that, did a lot of moving.

2:36:02He hit him a few times, and he hit him with some wild shots from

2:36:07the outside where he kind of dove in and threw wild punches.

2:36:10I think that was probably part of the strategy.

2:36:11But, I mean, ultimately, you're looking at Anthony Joshua, who's not just a heavyweight champion

2:36:16in boxing, but a one -punch knockout artist and a former Olympic gold medalist.

2:36:20He's a fucking highly skilled man, very highly, highly skilled.

2:36:26That was a strange fight because up to that point, Jake's pole fight was the

2:36:29other way around. Like, he clearly had an advantage.

2:36:33And that was like flipping the script the other way.

2:36:36Well, smart dude, you know, very smart.

2:36:38Do you think that was smart?

2:36:39Yeah, very smart in how he promotes himself, smart in that, like, you can't criticize

2:36:42him for not fighting dangerous fights anymore.

2:36:45Well, that you've got to respect, right.

2:36:46Yeah. The Mike Tyson one was a little sus.

2:36:49I mean, Mike Tyson is, you know, he's on the older side.

2:36:52Whereas Anthony Joshua, he's not that old.

2:36:54It's not just that. Like, the fight itself was a little sus.

2:36:57How do you mean? Because it looked like a sparring match.

2:36:59Right. It looked like there was an agreement in place.

2:37:00Okay. I don't know if there was, you know, but Terrence Crawford thought it was.

2:37:06Really? Yeah. It looked a little sus.

2:37:08I mean, Mike is, how old is Mike?

2:37:0958? 59? Yeah. I mean, I still wouldn't get in a ring with him.

2:37:13Yeah, no, I'd still kill you.

2:37:14But it's like, I mean, it's not saying that Jake would have even won.

2:37:19I mean, who knows? I mean, if Mike really could have, like, you saw he's

2:37:24capable of those flurries when he's hitting pads.

2:37:27He's still capable of massive speed and power.

2:37:30It's not saying that, but it's like, could he sustain a real fight?

2:37:34Does he want to get hit in the head anymore at this point in his

2:37:36life? And it's also, when you get to that age, you can look and you

2:37:40can, there'll be glimpses where you're like, oh, this is the old, the Tyson of

2:37:44old. But it's also as well, he's still a 58 -year -old dude.

2:37:48You know, a punch around the head, that can cause a brain hemorrhage, et cetera.

2:37:52And he can die. Sure.

2:37:54Fighters die at the peak of their powers or get brain damage.

2:37:57I mean, it's going to be, I'm no neurologist, but I'm certain that that is

2:38:01a higher risk when you're a 58.

2:38:03Yeah, I would recommend it.

2:38:06So this is why I asked you about Eddie Hearn and Dana.

2:38:09There's talk about them having a boxing match.

2:38:11Oh, that's funny. Dana can box.

2:38:12He can really box. Like, I've seen Dana hit mitts before.

2:38:15I've seen Dana spar. Dana can actually box.

2:38:17And there was a time where Dana was supposed to have a boxing match with

2:38:20Tito Ortiz. Right. Wow. And, you know, even Tito acknowledged, because Dana was his manager

2:38:26at one point in time, even Tito acknowledged, like, Dana's a really good boxer.

2:38:29He can box. He spent a lot of his time boxing when he was young.

2:38:32I mean, I don't know how much of it he's doing these days.

2:38:34He's so fucking busy. Yeah.

2:38:36You know, he's so involved in Zufa boxing now.

2:38:41And he's involved in some of these Riyadh season events.

2:38:44So it's like, you know, I don't, I think it's probably just talk.

2:38:47You know, Eddie Hearn's a very tall guy, though.

2:38:49He's a big dude. Yeah, he's a big dude.

2:38:51And he used to box as well.

2:38:52Did he? He used to, he boxed his dad, I think.

2:38:54I heard him talking about that.

2:38:56Interesting. Yeah. Yeah. There's a fight.

2:38:58Yeah. I mean, I guess.

2:39:00I don't want to see it.

2:39:01I'll watch, though. Well, this is what I mean.

2:39:04You don't want to see it, but you'll watch.

2:39:06Yeah. Well, there's certain things I don't want to see that I watch, like Slap

2:39:08Fight. Like, if someone sends me a video, if it shows up on my Instagram

2:39:12feed of some, you know, poor slob getting slapped in the shadow realm, I'll watch

2:39:17it. Just for how they hit their head off the table and stiffen up on

2:39:20the way down. Yeah. That's combat sports for the TikTok generation.

2:39:25Yeah. When you think about it.

2:39:26It's not even combat sports.

2:39:27I mean, it's just slapping each other.

2:39:30That's all it is. If you want to call slapping each other a sport, that

2:39:33seems crazy. It's also, there's a fundamental problem with slap fighting is that someone has

2:39:37to go first. Yeah. Yeah.

2:39:40And that's a giant advantage.

2:39:41Right. Going first is the biggest advantage of all time.

2:39:44Right. You know? And how's that decided?

2:39:46Coin toss. I don't know.

2:39:48I don't watch it. Is it?

2:39:50I have no idea. No.

2:39:52I don't know. I physically can't watch it, to be honest.

2:39:55Yeah. Well, to me, it's like this, at least zoo for boxing, is real.

2:40:00This is a real combat sport.

2:40:01Yeah. Whereas it's not just slapping each other in the head.

2:40:04Well, to me, the exciting thing, and correct me if this is wrong, but the

2:40:06exciting thing is it has felt for a long time that seeing top boxers fighting

2:40:11each other is a rare occurrence.

2:40:12Right. UFC, you see that every single card.

2:40:15Yeah. Well, the Saudis are stepping up.

2:40:18And that's, you know, with Turkey Alshake, like, his role in boxing has really changed

2:40:25that. Like, what they've done, what Riyadh season's done, is make fights that managers have

2:40:31said, don't do this. Yeah.

2:40:33Like, a good one is Martin Boccoli versus, God, I forget his name, Anderson.

2:40:40Anderson, young prospect, very good fighter, and Boccoli is a fucking big, dangerous guy.

2:40:49And Boccoli knocked this guy out.

2:40:51Jared Anderson? Jared Anderson. That's it.

2:40:53Jared Anderson was an undefeated, up -and -coming prospect, young guy, and Boccoli beat him

2:40:59up. Oof. And, uh, he really wasn't there yet.

2:41:04He wasn't ready for that guy yet.

2:41:05Yeah. And Boccoli stopped him, and that derailed this guy's career.

2:41:09But he probably got a big paycheck.

2:41:11Right. Right. And so, what I understand is there was a lot of people saying,

2:41:15that's a bad fight to make.

2:41:16Mm. Mm. Don't do it.

2:41:18Yeah. I mean, the UFC has been, seems to me, from the outside, quite careful

2:41:22about, like, giving people, like, Bo Nickel and, uh, Raul Rosas Jr.

2:41:27and Sean O'Malley, just trying to get them to build up slow.

2:41:30And even they've, you know, Raul and Bo Nickel both lost at one point, right?

2:41:34Well, yeah. Well, Bo Nickel fought Reiner de Ritter, who's a one champion and a

2:41:39huge guy for the middleweight division.

2:41:41Right. And Reiner did a fantastic job of, you know, you don't want to take

2:41:45Reiner to the ground because he's an elite submission athlete.

2:41:48And standing up, he's got vicious knees to the body.

2:41:51That's, like, one of his best weapons.

2:41:52And he, he fucked Bo up.

2:41:54But that was a good fight for Bo because he came back from that and

2:41:57fought Adolfo Vieira and looked fantastic afterwards.

2:42:00Like, he's a real competitor and a winner.

2:42:02And the kind of guy that gets knocked down like that is going to get

2:42:05back up and be five times more ferocious.

2:42:08And that's what he is.

2:42:09But, you know, it's one of those...

2:42:12where it's like why do you protect some people and not protect others you know

2:42:16and is it because they have better management is it you know because sometimes the

2:42:20UFC will tell you like if you want to fight in the UFC hey we've

2:42:24got a fight uh we need an opponent in four days someone dropped out and

2:42:28you're going to fight blank and that person who you're going to fight might be

2:42:34a surging contender who's fucking terrifying he's putting everybody to sleep and you have to

2:42:39make a decision like this is not a good fight for me at this point

2:42:41in my career but if I say no to the UFC maybe they will never

2:42:45offer me a fight again and also you're a fighter and fighters from everything that

2:42:49I know you're going to back yourself yes but you have to do that intelligently

2:42:54right you have to realize that if you if you are in a process and

2:42:58this is the thing about everyone up into like championship level up until a certain

2:43:02point in time when you plateau everyone is constantly getting better so if you you

2:43:07you get better from training you get better from work with your coaches but you

2:43:12also get better with experience and what boxers and boxing management has always done is

2:43:18make sure that you get the proper experience and the proper kinds of opponents are

2:43:22going to test you in certain ways along the way so the idea is you

2:43:25give a fighter a stiff test that they can pass you don't give a fighter

2:43:28a chance where they're going to compete against someone who's many many levels above them

2:43:33and they don't have a chance at all because that can destroy confidence that could

2:43:37like cause real damage to you and get really badly hurt and never be the

2:43:41same again there's certain fights that fighters have where they're never the same again they

2:43:45get knocked out by someone and they just aren't the same they get a flying

2:43:47knee to the face and they're done they get a head kick and they're done

2:43:51and they just are never the same guy again you can point to numerous examples

2:43:55of good fights where there weren't mismatches but that a fighter was never the same

2:43:59again it's a dangerous sport it's it's I mean it is the most in I

2:44:05mean it's not the most in terms of death boxing is the most in terms

2:44:09of death and I think that's because they have less options you know you can't

2:44:13clinch you can't hold on try to take a fight to the ground you can't

2:44:15defend yourself as well there's also the thing where you get knocked down and you

2:44:19get back up well you clear your head momentarily but you're still fucked and now

2:44:24you can't get out of the way of punches and now you're really getting fucked

2:44:27up and you're getting much more damage than you would have gotten if you got

2:44:30clipped that first time and then the guy punched you a couple of times when

2:44:32you're on the ground you got choked out yeah or you got choked out is

2:44:35way better yeah choked out is way better arm bar way better just tap and

2:44:39then you're good it's also the duration of the fights boxing matches tend to last

2:44:42for a lot longer normally if they go the duration they certainly can if it's

2:44:4612 minutes right you're dealing with 36 36 minutes of fighting of getting punched in

2:44:51the head versus 25 for an mma fight the opposite of that you would say

2:44:55though but they're not getting slammed on their head they're they're not getting kicked they're

2:45:00not getting kneed in the face they're not getting cut open with elbows there's a

2:45:03lot of things that can happen in an mma fight that are way worse but

2:45:07do you do you also think as well that when i watch mma losses look

2:45:11of course losses are detrimental and they affect careers and they knock people back but

2:45:15they don't seem to be as consequential as losses in boxing in terms of your

2:45:19career in terms of your career and the way you're perceived right well i think

2:45:23it's accepted that if you're fighting a bunch of different styles you know style versus

2:45:28style you're there's always a potential of losing especially amongst the elite of the elite

2:45:33and you're seeing more of that in mma at the highest level yeah you're not

2:45:38seeing guys avoiding each other because there's one champion and it's a ufc champion in

2:45:42that weight class and you have to fight that guy if you want the title

2:45:44right whereas there's the wbc the wbo the ibf and you have all these different

2:45:50organizations for boxing and so you can be a champion while avoiding the other champions

2:45:55whereas in the ufc that's the thing that's exciting is like you get to see

2:45:59max holloway who's a super dominant guy right and then he fights charles olivera yeah

2:46:03and it doesn't go that way it's crazy that was so dominant yeah it was

2:46:09so dominant and max holloway was a two -to -one favorite at least at some

2:46:13points in the the betting line yeah yeah and it kind of i mean obviously

2:46:17hamza chemaev is a whole category of its own but it sort of felt a

2:46:21little bit that level of domination on the ground yeah the difference is holloway was

2:46:25getting dominated on the feet too olivera is fucking dangerous shit on the feet i

2:46:30mean he was better everywhere yeah and he's bigger he's a bigger guy and you

2:46:35could you could see that in the exchanges like every time he got a clinch

2:46:38on max he just hoisted him up in the air and slammed him to the

2:46:42ground it was so definitive right that was a spectacular performance by olivera but was

2:46:47the thing that my concern going into that fight was i'd watched the mateus matthaus

2:46:52gamrot fight with olivera i'm like oh olivera is as good if not better than

2:46:57he's ever been before gamrot is fucking dangerous and he's a really good grappler and

2:47:01they went to the ground and he was lost olivera was just tying him up

2:47:05in knots he wasn't able to get anything off on olivera i'm like what is

2:47:08max going to be able to do on the ground against this guy and then

2:47:11when it comes to standing up justin gaethje said no one ever hit him harder

2:47:15than olivera did that olivera it's like he carries big power in his punches and

2:47:19big power in his kicks too and he's he's so reckless on the feet not

2:47:23reckless i should say but like so aggressive on the feet because he wants you

2:47:27to take him to the ground because he's the best submission artist in the history

2:47:30of the sport he has more submissions than anyone ever in the history of the

2:47:33sport wow and the thing that you don't appreciate i mean you really kindly sorted

2:47:37out tickets for us in the uh ufc in new york and you know these

2:47:42guys kick hard you know they punch hard but when you're there ringside and you

2:47:46feel the kick oh yeah you guys are close that's the thing is when you're

2:47:49close you can hear the boom well do you know what happened though in new

2:47:53york we sat down and then some guy that i didn't initially recognize came and

2:47:57sat in front of us and that was dylan danis and he kicked off this

2:48:01whole the brawl he sat literally right in front of us oh he had a

2:48:05front row seat yeah we did so the actual fight yeah oh boy was that

2:48:09exciting yeah well i just turned to the side and then there was this just

2:48:13giant brawl right in front of us all of a sudden those are very unfortunate

2:48:17yeah i don't like those yeah no me neither it was crazy it was crazy

2:48:21well dylan danis he knows how to get a lot of attention yeah that i

2:48:25don't know yeah he does and i I will say this, I don't agree with

2:48:28his behavior, but unlike a lot of online trolls, that guy actually does it in

2:48:31real life. Do you know what I mean?

2:48:33Right. He actually, I'm like, I don't like you.

2:48:35Dylan can fight. He can fight.

2:48:37He's a very good submission artist.

2:48:38He's a Marcelo Garcia black belt.

2:48:40He's very legit on the ground.

2:48:42Conor McGregor brought him in for training, like for a lot of his camps.

2:48:46Yeah. Are you excited for the White House card?

2:48:48That looks really good. Yes.

2:48:52I'm excited. It sounds crazy.

2:48:54I know it's going to be very high security and high stress and weird to

2:48:58have a fight at the White House in the middle of a fucking war.

2:49:01I would hope the war will be sorted out by June, but quite honestly, I'm

2:49:07not confident that that's going to be the case.

2:49:09No. Yeah. No. Yeah. So that would be weird.

2:49:11Yeah. Having this very high profile event where everybody's in one place at one time

2:49:14right there. I hadn't thought of that.

2:49:16Yeah. Yeah. So you're not excited to be there?

2:49:18Well, that seems like you're asking for.

2:49:20Holy shit. I hadn't thought of that at all.

2:49:22How could you not think of that?

2:49:23Well, because I'm not going to be there.

2:49:25You're the one that has to think of it.

2:49:26I was just like, this is a great lineup.

2:49:28I look forward to the fights.

2:49:29Yeah. Because if you want to talk about Hidden Heart, I mean, Ilya Taporia, fuck

2:49:32me. That's when you think like Max Holloway and Charles Oliveira.

2:49:37Charles Oliveira dominates Max Holloway.

2:49:39And then you realize like how quickly Ilya Taporia starched Charles Oliveira.

2:49:46And you go, how good is that guy?

2:49:47Right. He's a once in a generation talent.

2:49:50Like he's, he knocked out in three fights, three all time greats.

2:49:55Insane. Volkanovsky. And then he knocks out Max Holloway.

2:49:59And then he knocks out Charles Oliveira.

2:50:01In two different weight classes, he knocks out three all time greats, three fights in

2:50:06a row. And he just definitive starching of these guys.

2:50:11Like he's a once in a generation talent.

2:50:14And think how good Volk, how dominant Volk is.

2:50:17Like how good he looked against Diego Lopez.

2:50:19Right. How good Max Holloway looks all the time, especially in the striking exchanges.

2:50:23Max is a very hard guy to hit.

2:50:24And Ilya just dominated him.

2:50:27He's fucking spooky good and insanely confident.

2:50:30Insanely charismatic. Yeah. Do you think part of it as well is just technique is

2:50:35so important? It's the most important thing.

2:50:38Because you look at Yusik when he came up against Fury.

2:50:41And the first fight, I didn't give Yusik a prayer.

2:50:44Like Yusik is basically a glorified cruiserweight.

2:50:47Right. And you look at Tyson Fury, 6 '8", undefeated.

2:50:50You know, he comes from a traveler background.

2:50:52This is a guy who was taught to box from the age of three.

2:50:55I've taught traveler kids. They all taught how to fight.

2:50:58They know how to fight.

2:50:59They know how to throw punches.

2:51:00Boxing is in their blood.

2:51:02And you just saw that he was so technically supreme.

2:51:05Yeah. Fury had no answer and lost consecutive fights against him.

2:51:10Yeah. And then look at what he did to Dubois.

2:51:12Yeah. Yusik is special. I mean, he's basically a gigantic Lomachenko.

2:51:17Like, unbelievable movement. And he was trained by Lomachenko's father as well.

2:51:21Wow. Same trainer. Yeah. I mean, there's just people that are better than everybody else.

2:51:26And it seems like Ilya Teporia is one of those guys.

2:51:29He's just weirdly better than everybody else.

2:51:32And he can take it, too.

2:51:34Like, one of the fights that he had, so when he was competing at Featherweight,

2:51:37he took a fight at Lightweight against Jai Herbert.

2:51:40And Jai Herbert, in the first round, caught him with a perfect head kick.

2:51:44Rocked him. Dropped him. And Ilya Teporia wound up grabbing his legs, taking him down.

2:51:49They fought on the ground.

2:51:50And then the second round, Ilya just put him into the shadow realm.

2:51:53He hit him with a combination against the cage where he hit him with a,

2:51:57I think it was a left hook to the body and a right overhand that

2:52:00just spun his head around.

2:52:01It was wild. I mean, face first, face planted.

2:52:05He's got freakish power. So it is technique.

2:52:09His technique is flawless. His technique in the grappling is flawless.

2:52:13But it's also - Oh, is he good at grappling as well?

2:52:14He's phenomenal at grappling. Really?

2:52:16That's his main base. He started off as a grappler.

2:52:19Really? Yeah. I didn't even know that.

2:52:21Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. And his early fights are just taking people down.

2:52:23Because you don't see that much nowadays.

2:52:24He just fucking knocks everyone out, basically, right?

2:52:26He's just - It's his mind more than anything.

2:52:30His confidence is real. It's not bluster.

2:52:34Like, he's really - He celebrates the fights the day before the fight.

2:52:39He has a celebration of his victory.

2:52:41He did that against Charles Oliveira.

2:52:43They all went to dinner.

2:52:43They're making toasts. Celebrating his victory.

2:52:46The night before the fight itself.

2:52:48That's a high -risk strategy.

2:52:50That's a crazy thing. Meanwhile, he goes out and knocks him out in the first

2:52:52round. Like, who fucking knocks out Charles Oliveira in the first round like that?

2:52:55Especially now. Like, the Charles Oliveira of today.

2:52:58That's crazy. He's - It's many things.

2:53:02But the mind that allowed him to get so elite at grappling also allowed him

2:53:07to get so elite at striking.

2:53:09Right. And it's setups and traps.

2:53:12It's not just throwing wild bombs.

2:53:15It's defense. His defense is fantastic.

2:53:18You saw that in the Josh Emmett fight.

2:53:19Josh Emmett, like, as far as, like, one -punch power, he rivals everybody.

2:53:23I mean, you saw that fight where he knocked Bryce Mitchell out with a punch

2:53:27to the forehead. That guy hits so fucking hard.

2:53:30And when you look at it, it makes sense.

2:53:32I mean, he's a fucking tank.

2:53:33Yeah. And Ilya Dupori just slipped away from everything, slipped away from everything, and then

2:53:38eventually just put it on him.

2:53:40Yeah. He's great everywhere, man.

2:53:42Yeah. He's great on the ground.

2:53:43He's great standing up. And more importantly, it's his mind.

2:53:47Like, he doesn't make mistakes.

2:53:49He's just a force in there.

2:53:52Yeah. He's the new breed.

2:53:54You know, like, with every generation, there's—every generation builds on the success of the previous

2:54:00generation. They all learn from the elites of the past.

2:54:03He's our version of what's possible now.

2:54:05Wow. He's that good. I was hoping—I was hoping for the White House card, Dana

2:54:10would do something and pull Jon Jones out of the bag.

2:54:12I was hoping that as well.

2:54:14Yeah. I was hoping that as well.

2:54:15That would have been really special.

2:54:17Yeah. I don't know why that didn't happen.

2:54:19I don't know. I mean, there's Jon's version.

2:54:21There's the UFC's version. I don't know what was the stumbling block there.

2:54:26Well, I think it's fair to say him and Dana don't get on very well.

2:54:29I don't think it's that bad.

2:54:31They certainly could make a deal.

2:54:33That's—I don't think it's as bad as, like, say, Francis Ngannou.

2:54:35So the Francis Ngannou situation, like, Dana does not like him at all and won't

2:54:39do any business with him, period.

2:54:41Because I would be the fight Francis and Ghana versus John Jones.

2:54:44Oh, oh my word that would be good But also Alex Pereira versus John Jones

2:54:48would be the fight as well Yeah, like you wouldn't it didn't does a title

2:54:51doesn't mean anything you could do the BMF heavyweight version Like yeah, it doesn't matter

2:54:55right like just those two guys fighting I mean that would be the titles are

2:55:00irrelevant when you're dealing with the all -time great in John Jones the greatest of

2:55:04all time And then Alex Pereira a generational talent who's the most devastating striker we've

2:55:09ever seen inside the sport I mean as you look at Ilya, I mean Ilya

2:55:13is phenomenal, but Ilya is like more complete as a fighter but Alex is freaky

2:55:18I ever tell you what Mark Goddard said when he fought Khalil Rountree So he

2:55:24beats Khalil Rountree up and they stopped the fight and then Mark Goddard grabs me

2:55:30Like as I go into the octagon, he goes the sound it makes when he

2:55:34hits them is ungodly That's what he said.

2:55:38He goes he goes mate.

2:55:39I've been doing this for 20 years He goes I've seen it all he goes

2:55:42It's different the sound the impact is like he's a freak man that guy he

2:55:48but he's a physical freak I mean he's a real genuine Amazon warrior who's just

2:55:54built different than other people You know, I'm sure you've seen him punch that machine.

2:55:59Yeah Where he gets like 190 Francis Ngannou got like 129 what and he got

2:56:04190. Yeah Holy shit. Yeah, no, it's freak power.

2:56:09I did not enjoy watching the end of that Khalil Rountree fight I'm not gonna

2:56:12laugh That was rough I mean and Khalil Rountree is like a fucking animal.

2:56:16He's a warrior. He's just a warrior I mean he knew going into that fight.

2:56:19He was willing to go out on the shield.

2:56:21He wasn't afraid and he went after him He went after him.

2:56:24He did but the consequences of getting hit and then Alex was starting to tune

2:56:29him up at the end Where he was leaning away from shots and then countering

2:56:33and leaning away from shots and counting He was he was in his flow state

2:56:36and that's where it got real spooky Because Khalil became like a sitting target and

2:56:40with each shot his ability to get out of the way diminished With each kick

2:56:44that landed his ability to move diminished and it got spooky.

2:56:48Yeah, and then it becomes a dilemma for the referee Yeah, when do you actually

2:56:51step in because look they there's a consent for the fighter to be there and

2:56:57to take part in the fight But there comes a point where you have to

2:57:00step in for the for the fighters own health Yeah There comes a point where

2:57:03you realize they can't defend themselves anymore and they're getting just tuned up and that

2:57:07was the end of the fight I mean that was the right time to stop

2:57:10it, but it was hard to watch It was but then you get fights like

2:57:13Usman versus Leon Edwards Mm -hmm where he's getting smashed for five rounds and he

2:57:18just fucking pulls a kick out of the last minute Knocks him out.

2:57:21Yeah, so but he wasn't getting smashed not not the way Khalil Roundtree was at

2:57:24the end. That's yeah Yes, he wasn't getting he was getting beat.

2:57:27He was getting beat Yeah, but he wasn't like in danger of getting stopped or

2:57:30really hurt badly Yeah, but that's why we all watch it because it's that knowledge

2:57:35that anything can happen. Yeah, you know Hakeem Rahman versus Lennox Lewis, you know no

2:57:40one gave right right no one gave Hakeem a prayer when he went He was

2:57:44Lennox is a supreme fighter Olympic gold medalist one of the greatest to ever do

2:57:49it And then that one punch he hit flush on Lennox's jaw and he was

2:57:54out I remember watching it going.

2:57:55I mean no one saw that especially in the heavyweight division one punch with those

2:57:59guys Yeah, it's why I really like it because in our world like, you know

2:58:02if I do a debate everyone talks shit to each other and like You know

2:58:05everyone talks shit then they go have a debate.

2:58:07Everyone still talk shit afterwards in in combat sports Everyone talks shit and then you

2:58:11find out right Yeah, yeah, it's very definitive.

2:58:15You win or you lose.

2:58:16It's not subject to other people's interpretations of because like you'll see that in debates,

2:58:21too Like I'll see a debate where I I think like in for you For

2:58:25example, well, you clearly won the debate and then I'll see people say you got

2:58:28owned right, you know And they're like all the people who agree with me say

2:58:32I dominated and all the people who agree with other guys say he he dominated

2:58:35Yeah, and you'll see these pundits and it's that's a weird economy, right?

2:58:39There's a weird economy of commentators on other people's exchanges.

2:58:43Yeah, yeah, and it's that is a weird sport Yeah, but it's weird.

2:58:47You've made loads of careers.

2:58:48There's loads of people Joe Rogan said this on his part That's the entire content.

2:58:52Yeah, they work for me.

2:58:53They don't even know More famous, right?

2:58:56Yeah, you're getting all the kickbacks.

2:58:58So you you get to see what kind of a person they are Yeah, and

2:59:02they're they're silly bitchy people you go like well those silly bitchy people don't like

2:59:06him or maybe someone who you agree with Doesn't like me like oh, I don't

2:59:09like him anymore. Yeah, which is fine But it's like that economy of commenting on

2:59:14other people constantly the problem with that is You've always put yourself in a position

2:59:19of an outsider, right? You know you're a comp like me right in And when

2:59:23it comes to combat sports, I'm a commentator.

2:59:25That's all that's all I do I've I can't fight I'm 58 right.

2:59:29I'm not going in there So it's like I'm always going to be in this

2:59:32position of only being an observer and a commentator I'm not going to be like

2:59:37for those people that are commentating on these debates a lot of them probably fancy

2:59:42themselves intellectual gladiators They just don't get the opportunity to do it And occasionally they

2:59:47do and they usually get trounced right because really they're not that good Which is

2:59:50why they're commenting in the first place and why they have these fucking stupid hot

2:59:53takes Well, you know the frustrating thing for me with the debates nowadays is how

2:59:59few people want to have an actual discussion Right.

3:00:02It was so refreshing we last time we came here.

3:00:05We had Dave Smith on our show.

3:00:07I don't know if you saw that one.

3:00:08Yeah, I did Yeah We loved it was great.

3:00:11We loved it and Dave enjoyed it and and you know, it was weird because

3:00:16We obviously you have lots of different perspectives on things But afterwards a lot of

3:00:19people were like oh, I can't believe you had Dave on and I can I

3:00:22said to all of them listen Dave's only crime is that he has a different

3:00:25opinion to you because apart from that he comes in he shows up He's super

3:00:30nice. He's respectful. He's polite.

3:00:32He doesn't do any dirty tricks, right?

3:00:34He doesn't argue about the definitions of words that for 10 minutes, right?

3:00:39He just goes here's my opinion.

3:00:40Here's your opinion. Let's discuss.

3:00:42Yeah, and that's how conversations should happen, right?

3:00:45But so much of the debate stuff now is not people aren't discussing the issues

3:00:50They've just like decided you're a bad person and that's what they're trying to achieve.

3:00:53They're trying to get a cheap laugh from The audience that they're playing to who's

3:00:57not even in the room because they know their retard followers are going to watch

3:01:00it online afterwards and be like, oh, he owned them.

3:01:02But where did we get to?

3:01:04Well, it's just some people that are doing that.

3:01:08And those people, that's all they can do.

3:01:10That's why they do it that way.

3:01:12If they were really intellectually compelling, and if they were smart people, I don't want

3:01:18enemies. If I can have a sane, rational, peaceful discussion with someone where we disagree

3:01:24with something, I would greatly prefer that than have someone who's insulting me and I'm

3:01:28insulting them. We're trying to get off on each other.

3:01:30Like, why? I'm busy. I have things to do.

3:01:34I don't need that kind of bullshit in my life.

3:01:36And I don't mind when someone disagrees with me.

3:01:38I think it's healthy. I also want to know why you think the way you

3:01:42think genuinely. You know what?

3:01:44I see it as an opportunity as like, because we all have blind spots.

3:01:48We all have blind spots.

3:01:49We all have biases. I don't care who you are, how smart you are.

3:01:52You have biases. You have blind spots.

3:01:55Not me, mate. I know everything.

3:01:58But when someone goes, well, actually, Francis, you say this, but what about this?

3:02:03Have you thought about this?

3:02:04Have you read about this?

3:02:04I'm like, no. And it's like, well, maybe you should.

3:02:06Right. And maybe you actually, maybe won't change your opinion, but certainly have a more

3:02:11nuanced opinion. True. Yeah. But also, we're talking about shit that actually matters.

3:02:16Mm -hmm. You know? And it deserves to be taken seriously.

3:02:20Yeah. Well, the answer is don't engage with those certain people.

3:02:24Yeah. I'm learning that. Yeah.

3:02:26We were having a conversation about one particular individual where I'm like, why?

3:02:30Yeah. Don't bother. I can't believe you.

3:02:31I didn't say anything about that discussion because I was just like, I don't want

3:02:34anyone to waste their fucking time watching it.

3:02:36It was awful. I'm fascinated by that, too, though, because I'm fascinated by these people

3:02:41that are doing that where they're just trying to win and use tricks and be

3:02:45sneaky because they think of discourse in a completely different way.

3:02:49Right. They think about the whole thing in a completely different way.

3:02:52They're completely ideologically captured. And the place they're starting from is I want to prove

3:02:58this to be correct, not I want to know why this person believes it to

3:03:02be incorrect, and I want to find out if maybe we have common ground, and

3:03:06maybe they know something I don't, or maybe I know something they don't, and let's

3:03:09find out. You know what I really want?

3:03:12And Constance and I have talked about it a lot.

3:03:14I want somebody on the left to come out and be brilliant at debating and

3:03:18go to people on the right, well, you say this and you say this, but

3:03:20actually, let's look at this.

3:03:22Let's look at that and be a genuine intellectual force.

3:03:25And what I despair of is I haven't seen anyone be from the left like

3:03:29that in basically a generation.

3:03:31I think the generation that you're talking about has been captured by some certain narratives

3:03:36that you have to agree to that aren't rational.

3:03:39So as soon as you do that and you align yourself with this particular ideology,

3:03:43you're already saying I'm willing to believe some shit that doesn't make any sense at

3:03:49all because this is the only way to be accepted by my tribe, that intellectually

3:03:53compromises you. And that also, I think, humiliates you in a certain way.

3:03:58It puts you in a position where you're saying something that you know can't be

3:04:01true, so you set up blind spots.

3:04:03Do you think they know it's not true?

3:04:04I think there's got to be a part of them that realizes there's a good

3:04:07argument that it's not true.

3:04:09Especially when it comes to transgender stuff or border stuff.

3:04:14There's certain things where there's no real good faith argument that you should have an

3:04:19open border and allow fucking any psychopath to come across the border and then invade

3:04:23your community. That seems crazy.

3:04:25That seems crazy. If you understand anything about human nature and the nature of the

3:04:29world and the level of poverty and crime that exists outside of the United States,

3:04:35particularly in third world countries, we're just allowing people - I thought you were talking

3:04:38about Canada there, Joe. I'm all for them evading.

3:04:42They should come over. They should bail on their country until it gets better.

3:04:46I just ask you because I would find it so hard to go on stage

3:04:49in front of, well, what is now hundreds of thousands of people by the time

3:04:52it goes on the internet, right?

3:04:54And just vigorously defend something I didn't believe.

3:04:57Well, that's because you're smart.

3:04:58And I think the problem is a lot of these people aren't really intelligent.

3:05:02What they are is a person who has a good vocabulary, who's acquired a certain

3:05:08amount of technique and skill involved in talking really fast and spouting things that they've

3:05:15seen online that a bunch of narratives, like one of the things that people love

3:05:19to do is if you're talking to anyone that's on the right, they want to

3:05:22say, you know, you support a 34 time convicted felon.

3:05:29And there's a lot of things that they like to say.

3:05:32There's techniques involved. Instead of like discussing anybody that looked at the actual Trump case,

3:05:37if you're rational and you're on the left, you say, that's a crazy case.

3:05:41There's no way that should be a felony.

3:05:43It's not a felony. There are 34 different misdemeanors.

3:05:45And it's also, it's past the statute of limitations.

3:05:47This is a craziest, egregious misuse of justice.

3:05:51And the scary thing is if someone on the right gets in and they decide

3:05:54to do that to someone on the left, like you got to put your foot

3:05:56down, stop that from happening.

3:05:57The Russia, Russia, Russia stuff.

3:05:59Like the, all that stuff, the Russiagate stuff, like that's kind of crazy that someone

3:06:03on the left doesn't call that out and say, Hey guys, this is fucking dangerous

3:06:07because if you're lying and you're having intelligence agencies lie and you're having people lie

3:06:12on television and you're just accepting that, what, because it's your side?

3:06:17You're supporting your side. That's why.

3:06:19That's crazy. That's why. And I find that very strange because what they do is

3:06:23they pivot to that, which is not relevant to the conversation we're having.

3:06:27We're talking about, you know, is it, is it right to do these strikes on

3:06:30Iran or is it this or is it that is, you know, what, what's the

3:06:33situation in the middle East or whatever?

3:06:35How, how does bringing up Trump's convictions or otherwise change that?

3:06:40It doesn't affect that conversation or the border or the trans thing or any of

3:06:44the other things. And that's the thing is like, can we just argue the fucking

3:06:48point? Well, I think at a certain point in time, you're going to have to

3:06:53choose real opponents. It's like a Jake Paul thing.

3:06:55But, but, but, but see, I want the real opponents, but where are they?

3:06:59Right, but where are they?

3:06:59Where are they? And we've had people on the show where it's like, we had,

3:07:02um, this, this woman from the Guilty Feminist podcast and she came on and we

3:07:06gave it 40 minutes. She basically laid out her whole vision.

3:07:09She basically laid out her whole vision.

3:07:10And it was respectful and polite, and it was a great conversation, actually.

3:07:14The moment I said, well, you know, you've been speaking for this time.

3:07:17Here's some of the things that I see that don't make sense in my head.

3:07:19Can you help me out?

3:07:21Immediately goes personal. Immediately. Yeah.

3:07:24And that's what Francis is saying.

3:07:25Like, I'd love to see people who have an ability to argue the point.

3:07:31Yeah. And that's what Dave does.

3:07:34He argues the point, and that's either persuasive to you or it isn't.

3:07:37Well, I think the problem is their point is not very good.

3:07:41Yeah. Yeah. I think that is the problem.

3:07:43Yeah. And so you have to go personal.

3:07:45You have to attack people.

3:07:46You have to use ad hominems.

3:07:47It's the only way you can get anything off.

3:07:49And then you can try to get that person emotional and trap them.

3:07:51So why don't they change their opinion then?

3:07:54It's a good question because if you're ideologically captured, especially if you're on the left,

3:07:58like, it's a very clear ideology, and there's, like, real blowback for deviating from it.

3:08:04Yeah. As we know, right?

3:08:05Like, because the moment you say, well, you're no longer on the left anymore.

3:08:10Yeah. Well, a lot of people have been kicked out of it.

3:08:12Yeah. A lot of people have been pushed into some weird quasi -homeless land.

3:08:18Well, that's how we all ended up was, like, right wing.

3:08:20It was like, fuck off with this shit.

3:08:21Yeah, fuck off with this shit.

3:08:22But, you know, 20 years ago, all the stuff that we talk about, it wasn't

3:08:27just, like, not right wing.

3:08:29No one questioned. Do you remember 25 years ago people running around going, we need

3:08:35an open border? Right. Right?

3:08:39Or, like, you can change your sex by just going, like, abracadabra.

3:08:42Right. No one said that.

3:08:43Right. And so we went right wing for, like, going, that's crazy.

3:08:47I know. You know, the most bizarre thing is watching all these kind of left

3:08:51wing lesbian feminists can be described as right wing and getting kicked out.

3:08:55The J .K. Rowling is an answer.

3:08:57The J .K. Rowling is an answer.

3:08:57Martina Navarro over. Yeah. Fuck my way.

3:09:00There's a journalist called Julie Bindle, who used to write The Guardian, one of the

3:09:03most left wing journalists. And she's a lesbian.

3:09:05And she criticised, like, and she was like the trans movement.

3:09:09That was it. Out the door.

3:09:11It doesn't matter what you've done before.

3:09:13It doesn't matter you've done all this incredible work with women in female prisons.

3:09:17Well, it's because it's a cult.

3:09:18I mean, it's essentially like a religious ideology.

3:09:21Like, they will not take any heretics.

3:09:26Like, anybody that deviates from whatever their doctrine is, like, you're out.

3:09:30You're out forever. And that scares people.

3:09:32So that's one of the reasons why they're willing to comply and follow some of

3:09:37this goofy shit and say, no one's illegal on stolen land.

3:09:40What's interesting is it doesn't happen on the right nearly the same way.

3:09:44Like, you can see it now.

3:09:44Now, the right is engaged in a fierce debate internally.

3:09:50And people fucking argue and they hash it out.

3:09:52And then they, like, they go have a beer afterwards.

3:09:55I think they're doing it just the same way.

3:09:57Just the same? I think it's a human thing.

3:09:59Yeah. I think there's people on the right that do it just the same way.

3:10:02There's people that call people out for not being MAGA enough, you know?

3:10:05Yeah. It's just, like, right now the whole thing's in turmoil, whereas there's not really

3:10:09the same kind of turmoil on the left where there's internal debate.

3:10:13The turmoil on the left is the left versus the right.

3:10:16Yeah. The turmoil on the right right now, I think there's a lot of people

3:10:20right versus right. And they're trying to find out, like, and I think there's a

3:10:24lot of people that don't believe what they're saying either.

3:10:26They're just trying to find a thing that aligns with the biggest audience.

3:10:29I think that's definitely happening.

3:10:31I also think, though, internal debate within a big, broad church movement is a good

3:10:36thing because what you're arguing about is, like, what is the right direction?

3:10:40Yep. You know? Yeah. And I do think that is more healthy.

3:10:43Yeah. I think working out what it is that, like, whatever, if you're on the

3:10:48right, we believe. I'm not on the right, but as I see that, I do

3:10:53think that's a healthy thing to do because you're arguing about the direction of that

3:10:57movement. Yeah. And I think that's much healthier than what happens on the left where

3:11:01it's just like, well, if you don't agree with this wacky idea that's far, far

3:11:04out there, then you're no longer part of this.

3:11:06But I think the good thing about these debates is it exposes that.

3:11:10And anybody who's objective, especially anybody that is, you know, a swing voter or anybody

3:11:17who's in the middle of all this, which is a lot of people, a lot

3:11:19of people. Most people, I think, right?

3:11:21Yeah, most people are kind of in the middle on most political issues.

3:11:24They get to see how crazy some of this shit is, and it makes them

3:11:28less likely to follow. But it's also, as well, from a neutral perspective, and I

3:11:35mentioned the point about I want a strong left.

3:11:37I want a strong left which has got good ideas about how to tackle things

3:11:42which are really important, like inequality, like the cost of living.

3:11:45How do we make it that people can actually have a better standard of life,

3:11:50where if a woman wants to stay at home with her kids, she can do

3:11:54that, which they then have to go out and have to work and put the

3:11:57kids in daycare, which then leads to a whole host of problems.

3:12:01How can we have a better world for ordinary people, which is what the left

3:12:05always used to be? We need a strong left to then challenge the right so

3:12:10that the center becomes a more fertile ground.

3:12:12And if we don't have that, if we have these crazy loons on the left,

3:12:16then what we have is a right which will come to dominate, which I don't

3:12:20think is good for society as a whole.

3:12:22I'm going to be honest with you.

3:12:23No, it's never good if one party, left or right, is completely dominant.

3:12:29It's not good. You need checks, right?

3:12:32And the right has its share of crazies, too, as we've been talking about.

3:12:35A hundred percent. Praise Jesus.

3:12:38We've got to wrap this up.

3:12:39Gentlemen, I love you guys.

3:12:40Very quickly. Oh, your book.

3:12:42Yeah, I've got a book.

3:12:43It's called Uneducated My Life as a Teacher and Why You Should Never Become One

3:12:48and Never is in Bold.

3:12:50An inspiring story. Francis Foster.

3:12:52All right. I love you guys.

3:12:53It's always great to see you.

3:12:54Great to see you. Bye, everybody.

3:13:06Bye, everybody. Bye, everybody. Bye, everybody.

3:13:08Bye, everybody. Bye, everybody. Bye, everybody.

3:13:09Bye, bye, everybody.

#2466 - Francis Foster & Konstantin Kisin