The Karol Markowicz Show: Chris Stigall on Faith, Media’s Future & Life After COVID
3/27/202621 mincomplete
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0:17Call 844 -844 -iHeart. Hi, and welcome back to The Carol Markowitz Show on iHeart
0:28Radio. My guest today is Chris DeGaulle.
0:32Chris is host of The Chris DeGaulle Show, weekdays 6 to 9 on the Salem
0:36Radio Network and the Salem News Channel and daily on the Salem Podcast Network.
0:40So nice to have you on, Chris.
0:42We worked hard on that show name, Carol.
0:44Thank you so much. I, too, struggled with my show name, so I understand.
0:50Look, sometimes it just is what it is, you know?
0:52That's right. That's right. It's a show, you know, with our names in it.
0:56And so tell me how you got into this thing of ours.
1:00Where did you get your start?
1:02Golly, you know, I started as an overnight DJ in college.
1:07I was a... Before I even knew what talk radio was as a thing, I
1:11started as a DJ because I thought I wanted to talk on the radio.
1:14I was a kid, so I didn't really know talk radio.
1:17So I thought, well, the easiest way to get on the radio and talk was
1:20through being a DJ. So I went through a lot of painful years pretending to
1:26care about the music I had to play while I was doing entirely too much
1:30talking. And my bosses kept telling me to shut up.
1:33And I lost several jobs until finally one boss one day said, you know what?
1:38We're getting rid of you on afternoon drive on our morning music station.
1:43We're going to move you to our talk station and see how that works out
1:46effective Monday. And that was the beginning back in 2004.
1:51Were you always right of center?
1:54I... Yes. I was always a Republican, registered Republican voter.
1:57I was raised in a Republican home.
1:59But I don't think I knew really what I was as a thoughtful conservative until,
2:05honestly, until after 9 -11.
2:07That was when I really started to think deeply about it for the first time
2:10in my life. Yeah. I think that's a turning point for a lot of people.
2:13When something like that happens, you're like, wait, what do I believe here?
2:16And where do I stand for?
2:18Because you could drift along in your day -to -day life not really having deep
2:22opinions about things. And I think that makes sense.
2:24I always encourage my normie friends, like, you don't have to be obsessed with politics.
2:28It's totally okay not to be.
2:31You know, I think probably what did it for a lot of the modern era,
2:34at least people my kids' age, is probably COVID.
2:37I bet they will talk of COVID someday.
2:39Like, we talk about 9 -11, we Gen Xers.
2:41Life was pretty easy. The 90s were pretty light and high.
2:45Absolutely. The economy was good.
2:47Break from history, right. Yeah.
2:49And I didn't care about anything but just chuckles and laughs and trying to get
2:53a laugh and be entertaining.
2:54I hope we're still entertaining.
2:55But the severity and the weight of the world became very real to me for
2:59the first time in my young adult life after 9 -11, you know?
3:03Right. I guess that's the COVID comparison is really good because I know my kids,
3:07I mean, they're still fairly young, but I don't think they'll be over it for
3:10a while. Their lives changed significantly.
3:12A lot of things changed.
3:14And I think that, you know, this is where they develop their first ideals and
3:18points of view. So, what would you have done if this hadn't worked out?
3:24What would have the plan B been for Chris?
3:29True story. I was not having a lot of success, I didn't think, when I
3:34graduated from school trying to get my first radio job.
3:38You have a great voice.
3:39I don't know how that's possible that you were struggling.
3:41You have a really, really good voice.
3:43Yeah. Thanks. Thanks very much.
3:45Face for radio, as they say.
3:47Same. Well, no, no, you're beautiful.
3:50A guy called me that I knew through a guy, and he said, hey, why
3:54don't you come over to this television station in town and talk with me about
3:57sales? And this television sales guy sat down with me, and boy, I just got
4:03dollar signs in my eyes.
4:04I mean, I'm a 20, what, two, three -year -old guy at that time?
4:06And he's telling me, oh, you know, you can make a mountain of money selling
4:11television ad time. And I thought, well, I guess I should go make money.
4:16And then I'll spare you the details, but long story short, I thought my dad
4:22at the time was having a heart attack.
4:24He wasn't, but at the time he had a sudden health thing that turned out
4:29to be fine, and he's fine.
4:30But I was standing at his bedside.
4:32I was about to take this job, and my dad says to me, this is
4:35like a movie moment. He says, son, don't sell out what you want to do
4:39for a living. Really? You always wanted to be on radio.
4:41Don't do that. And that just struck me.
4:44Yeah. And so I went right back to trying to figure out how to get
4:48on the air, and I got my first job doing overnight radio not too long
4:51after that. So I walked away from the TV sales job and stayed with it.
4:55You know, it's more amazing than it even sounds because I think a lot of
4:59parents would want their kids to go towards security instead of, like, the passion that
5:04they have. I do think, like, we have these polls all the time.
5:07There was a Pew poll a few years ago that the number one thing that
5:11parents want for their kids is a stable career, like, where they could, you know,
5:15make money. And, like, you know, far down the list was getting married or anything
5:19like that, of course. But even pursuing your passion, I think a lot of parents
5:24would have said, you know.
5:25you know, stop with the passion, do the thing that makes money.
5:28My dad had two influential moments in my life very specifically.
5:33And the first time was in high school when I didn't know what I wanted
5:36to do. And I just thought, well, I'll play football because that's what guys in
5:39high school do. And that's what my dad, I knew, was very good at as
5:42a kid. And I wanted to make my dad happy.
5:45And I thought, well, that's a good way to be popular.
5:47I'll just play football. I was a miserable Carol.
5:49I hated it. I've never hated anything more in my life.
5:51And I remember my dad came to watch my first game and I was just,
5:55I was, I was a dope.
5:57I got mowed over. I just looked ridiculous.
5:59There was no reason I was out there.
6:00And I walked up to him near tears and I said, dad, I hate this.
6:03I'm sorry. I just got to confess.
6:04I hate it. And he, I remember him saying, well, then what in the world
6:07are you doing? Why are you playing it?
6:08I never asked him to play it.
6:10Yeah. And that also hit me.
6:12So now as a dad, two things that I remember, follow the passion, as you
6:15just said, but never impose your own dreams or desires or wishes that you had
6:20for yourself on your kids.
6:22Just, just let them be, you know, and things are going to work out.
6:25I think it's tough because you do have your preconceived notions and paths that you
6:29think are going to be better for the kid and you want them to have
6:32an easier road. So you're trying to give them the best advice that you can
6:35muster. And it's going to be the things that you believed in or things that
6:40you thought would be good for you, but maybe not for the kids.
6:43And now that they're pushing, you know, at 21, 20 and 17, it's, I'm, that's
6:47getting harder. I was not pushy with them in sports and stuff and activities as
6:51little kids, but now that they're getting to be young adults, now is when I
6:55start to have to really resist being pushy.
6:57Yeah. What do you want to push them into?
6:59Like, what's the impulse? Well, mine are just a little bit younger than yours.
7:02So I'm just wondering where I'm going to be in like a few years.
7:05My oldest is 16. Yeah.
7:07It's, it's, it's stuff like they have their own money and they want to make
7:11a big impulsive decision. Like they want their first fancy car and car payment.
7:16Yeah. And you have to say, that's a silly waste of money.
7:20And, uh, they say, well, that's what I want.
7:22It's mine. I can. And you say, well, I guess it is yours, you know,
7:25and you know, they're going to hate it and they do.
7:27And they inevitably come home and say, boy, that was stupid.
7:29I should have listened. Yeah.
7:31You should have. Yeah. Having this, having the grace to just let them fall a
7:34little bit. I think it's that thing of letting them know you're there as the
7:37backstop, but okay. If you want to go out there and walk the plank for
7:41a minute, go for it.
7:42See how it works out for you.
7:44Right. Yeah. And then just be there when they're done.
7:46Tough to watch them walk that plank.
7:48Yeah. Yeah, it is. How has the radio world changed in your time since you
7:53got started? Carol, uh, you don't have enough show.
7:59Um, this is something I'm living in real time right now.
8:03Yeah. This could turn into a therapy session.
8:05Let's do it. I love it.
8:06This show has an advice component, so come on, give it to me.
8:10Well, you can help me then.
8:11I have loved nothing more in my entire life to the story about my dad.
8:15I mean, I knew since fourth grade, my earliest memories, I wanted to be on
8:19a microphone talking on the radio.
8:21I just, I had that kind of feeling for it.
8:24Yeah. I just, I felt it in my soul that that was what I wanted.
8:27And I worked toward that and only that.
8:29And I was lucky enough and blessed enough to achieve that.
8:33And here in just the last, I don't know, let's say five to 10 years,
8:37really maybe even more recently, five, everything has won, gone visual.
8:42Video. Yep. Like us right now.
8:45Number two, everybody has gone to, I don't need live anything.
8:49I'll just stream it on my schedule.
8:52Right. So two things that I loved was just the intimacy of the audio medium
8:56and live appointment listening. Yeah.
9:00Both of those things are effectively dead or becoming more, more dead, if you want,
9:06I guess. And I, there's still a place for it and there will always be
9:09a home for it to a degree, but it's, it certainly is not what it
9:13was. And so I'm trying to kind of accept that and not be too old
9:18man on the porch, shaking my face.
9:19It's tough. Yeah. Evolve. But I miss it.
9:22I miss what it was because it was magic and it still is.
9:26It's just, you know, people's needs change.
9:29Their desires change. I get more email now about a problem with Apple podcast, not
9:34downloading, then, Hey, what's wrong?
9:37I didn't hear you on the radio this morning.
9:38And that's, it's just a weird thing that I've got to evolve with.
9:41And I'm, I'm learning. Right.
9:42So this show is mostly audio.
9:44I use clips for promo from the video, but a lot of people say to
9:48me, Oh, you know, you have to get into video.
9:50You have to start streaming it.
9:52But I, I feel like I think, I don't know.
9:55Maybe I just don't know better, but I feel like my listener base listens on
9:59audio only. They're not on the, I mean, they're, of course they're on YouTube, but
10:03they're not looking for me on YouTube.
10:04And it's something else that we do together.
10:05Carol, it's the strangest thing.
10:07You probably experienced this with your show.
10:09I I've, I've heard, and I see this with my own kids, young people, they
10:13don't radio what they don't listen, whatever.
10:15Um, it has to be video and not because they're watching video.
10:19There's just something about the physical video playing, even if they're not watching it, they
10:24need that visual thing there.
10:26I don't know if that's attention deficit disorder or what that is, but that's my
10:31kids. They prefer to listen to a YouTube video that's on playing.
10:36They may not be looking at you, Carol, but they're right for having you visually
10:40there while listening. Something comforting about that, I guess.
10:43Right. Like they, to them.
10:45Just like they're having a conversation with somebody, they're sort of listening to somebody who's
10:50talking to them if they have the video on, right?
10:52I here's my intimacy my memory was with my kid my parents growing up as
10:57a kid what I loved was my mother putting on makeup my dad shaving in
11:03the kitchen making breakfast and there's this guy on the radio that they're listening to
11:08and laughing with or tuned into something he was saying and I just thought now
11:12that is the most captivating job in the world yeah this this guy in a
11:16box has my parents full attention this morning as they're getting ready for work and
11:21I all that I want that that's the job I want yeah and there's something
11:25about that like just a voice in a box and if you're still able to
11:29connect with everybody or a lot of people there's something very you're right intimate intimate
11:34is the right word for it because I think there is something intimate about it
11:37versus having somebody on television which doesn't feel intimate and that to me is what
11:41YouTube feels like but you know we're both just shaking our fists on the lawn
11:48we're gonna have to go video Chris so well here we are I've done it
11:52we're doing it I do it every morning on the salem news channel so I've
11:56adapted I don't necessarily like it but I haven't entirely yet but but I may
12:00I may I may have to this is where the world is going right you
12:03have to meet people where they are what is the thing you're most proud of
12:08in your life you know um I would have told you once upon a time
12:14that it was the fact that here for now 26 years more or less I've
12:19made a living doing this thing that I dreamt of doing as a kid but
12:23I realize now in my more mature years that um to have pride in that
12:28or to have pride in anything I've accomplished at all is sort of silly because
12:31it's um and it's it's weird to say that I'm proud of this but my
12:34faith in Christ is something Carol that for me is something that took a long
12:38time to walk alongside him and defer to him and hand the controls over to
12:43him and say none of this is mine I don't control any of this it's
12:47always been a gift and I've been trying to hang on to it so desperately
12:50for so long when I finally figured out let it go and let him have
12:55it um I I'm I'm proud of that but in an extraordinarily humble way when
12:59I say proud if that makes sense that's so beautiful I really love the way
13:03you said that and I think that being proud in your career is it's an
13:06important thing and I think it's a good thing to be proud of what you've
13:09accomplished but the faith part is absolutely more important and binding your faith I think
13:15is an accomplishment that a lot of people don't don't get to have and and
13:20may I say COVID off the top we said it COVID did a lot COVID
13:24did it to me I mean I really had to do some deep deep soul
13:27searching really it was a little before COVID to be honest um I'll bore you
13:30with that story some other time but no bore me with it now what was
13:33the what was the impetus well I was a terrible drinker to be perfectly honest
13:37with you I had a real alcohol problem and for years in this business that's
13:41what drove me to it I mean I loved this business with my whole heart
13:43but the stress of it was great and and and still is but I couldn't
13:48cope with it and so uh I drank heavily for a long time and it
13:53was finally then that um in 2019 I I after a long battle with it
13:58I finally I had a real moment John 5 moment if you want very specifics
14:03uh I was in a it was in a service and it was on John
14:05chapter 5 the man at the pool of Bethesda and I just had this moment
14:08with the Lord where he said um are you gonna walk with me are we
14:13doing this you go to church every Sunday do you believe what you say do
14:16you really want to be the drunk at the bar or are you gonna represent
14:20me and walk with me and trust here what's the I mean I just had
14:23this kind of it was like a coach sitting on the sidelines are you ready
14:26to play by the rules or uh and and walk with me and do this
14:30the right way are you going to keep trying to handle it yourself and I
14:32I had this real moment where I finally just kind of collapsed and gave it
14:35over um in a pretty physical way I just I literally just kind of I
14:39fell in a heap and and wept for a while and handed it over and
14:42I quit drinking that day I'm wow really seven years sober now yeah and um
14:49it's incredibly impressive yeah thanks I and I don't again I'm not saying it to
14:53boast I it's not my own power it's uh it's it's something you accomplish and
14:57and with the faith component I think all of that is an important story to
15:02tell it's so hard to convey to young people what faith does for them and
15:06I think that's such a point a to point b story where you here here
15:11is something that my faith has helped me achieve I I don't think there's anything
15:15wrong with boasting about that if you can relinquish this perceived power that you think
15:21you have over your circumstances I think we'd all be a lot better off wow
15:26yeah very well said we're going to take a quick break and be right back
15:30on the carol markowitz show run a business and not thinking about podcasting think again
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15:56radio and podcasting let us show you at iHeartAdvertising .com that's iHeartAdvertising .com give us
16:05a five -year out prediction and it could be about anything at all i would
16:13think i this is my hope i'd like to predict this out of both hope
16:18and that sincerely humanity will go this way way, this AI thing, I think is
16:24going to drive people to a place where they're going to demand proof of authenticity.
16:30I think we may go retro and people may start demanding somehow, whatever that looks
16:35like. I don't know if that's laws.
16:37I don't know if that's stamps of approval.
16:40I don't know what it looks like, but I think people are going to really
16:42hunger for a day when human created art forms, human created content, human interaction, the
16:50human written word. I think that's going to be invaluable eventually when we go so
16:54far the other direction with AI.
16:56So I get a lot of AI answers to that question, but most of them
17:00are very pessimistic. And this one is far, or if they're optimistic, they're optimistic in
17:06a AI is going to be so amazing for everything.
17:08And it's going to be, you know, it's going to take over all of our
17:10jobs, but that's going to be the greatest thing ever.
17:12Yours is a little different.
17:14It's that you're optimistic about AI's future in bringing us back to more of an
17:20analog time. Would you say that that's right?
17:23I do. And the reason I think that's true, again, I hate sounding like a
17:26broken record. I see what COVID did and I specifically see it in a lot
17:30of you. No, COVID was extremely life -changing for me.
17:33So please don't worry about talking about COVID too much.
17:37I could talk about it all day.
17:38Carol, I think the women in this country, I have seen such an inspirational change
17:43in the women, not even the men, and I'm not saying it to pander.
17:46I have seen women become some of the most unbelievably traditional, conservative, grounded.
17:56They've become these kind of tiger mom types in the best way.
18:00It's about homesteading in the home and homeschooling and bread making and raising chickens.
18:07Nothing else matters. You know, it turns out that everything we thought mattered didn't, and
18:11COVID really put that into focus.
18:13That's it. And I've seen it in my own family with my wife and my
18:16sister -in -law and friends of mine.
18:19Really, women out in the COVID era, I think homeschooling, Christian education, abandoning the traditional
18:26public school system, that's all been shattered thanks to COVID, actually.
18:30Yeah. Moving from blue states to red states, that was my COVID story.
18:35Where did you go? Where did you move?
18:37From New York to Florida.
18:38Very, very public move where I was never going to leave New York.
18:43I was a lifelong New Yorker.
18:44I was, you know, I was the kind of person that would tweet stuff like,
18:47I'm sure your city's nice, but come on.
18:50I think you were on my show talking about that move.
18:52Probably, yeah. I'm sure I was, yeah.
18:55Because you wrote about it a lot.
18:55I wrote about it quite a bit.
18:58It was life -changing. Oh, so happy.
19:01It's four years and so happy.
19:04And the thing that you were saying, to bring it back to the five -year
19:07prediction, but like, times of change can make you refocused.
19:13And I thought that that's what COVID was to me, too.
19:16It was a moment where you realize things that you thought mattered.
19:20Like, I thought being a New I tossed it so fast that I never even,
19:27I never even looked back.
19:28Like, it mattered so much more to be a mother who was taking care of
19:32her children and bringing them to like more freedom and, you know, doing what's best
19:36for them and taking them out of a bad situation.
19:38All of that, you know, was just, again, brought into focus in a real way
19:43with COVID. And I think your analog example with AI is hopeful because so many
19:50people are afraid. And I think that you could absolutely have a return to what's
19:54real. And maybe we can refocus on that.
19:57It's what you said was so brilliantly put.
20:00It was exactly the same for me professionally.
20:03When your identity is tied up in being a New Yorker or a talk show
20:08host or whatever thing that I, in my mind, that's not the right way to
20:13be wired. And sometimes it takes really dramatic things for you to assess.
20:16What am I really? Whose am I really?
20:19Right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Worldwide pandemic is all it took.
20:22That's all. Well, Chris, I have loved this conversation.
20:26I've loved getting to know you a little bit more.
20:28Leave us here with your best tip for my listeners on how they can improve
20:32their lives. Spend time in the Word of God.
20:35Spend time around people of God who appreciate and understand and share your values.
20:42And third and final, I'd just say, shut social media off.
20:46Oh, yeah. Schedule some time with it.
20:48Tough. Tough to do. Yeah.
20:49Shut it off. Get away.
20:51Turn me off. Turn Carol off.
20:53Turn... And, you know, make time for Carol.
20:56Yeah, sure. Make him for us.
20:57Yeah. That's right. Schedule it and then put it away and then spend time outside
21:01or in the Word or in a book or with people you love.
21:05We shouldn't be too consumed with all -consuming media.
21:08That's right. He is Chris DeGall.
21:10Check out the Chris DeGall Show on the Salem Radio Network and the Salem News
21:15Channel and daily on the Salem Podcast Network.
21:18Thank you so much for coming on, Chris.
21:20It was my pleasure, Carol.
21:21Thank you so much for the invitation.